End times for doomsday-linked radio network?
Harold Camping, now 91, is the force behind Family Radio -- and a couple failed prophecies.
May 16th, 2013
07:00 AM ET

End times for doomsday-linked radio network?

By Jessica Ravitz, CNN
[twitter-follow screen_name='JRavitzCNN']

(CNN) - Dealing with a struggling radio business – this wasn’t the way it was supposed to be. By all his calculations, Harold Camping expected to be nearly two years into his Rapture revelry, hanging in heaven with God and the select others who’d been saved.

But when his predicted and vastly promoted May 21, 2011, Day of Rapture came and went, and the end of the world on October 21, 2011, didn’t pan out either, Camping lost his doomsday mojo. It didn’t help that he had another knock against him, having made a similar failed prophecy back in 1994.

By March 2012, the degreed engineer who’s spent more than a half-century studying the Bible admitted mistakes. He vowed to back off from the prediction business.

Now it seems Family Radio, the nonprofit Christian radio broadcasting network Camping started in 1959, may be foundering, according to an investigative story recently published in the Contra Costa Times.

Financial documents show that Family Radio's assets dropped by more than $105 million in less than five years, despite an influx of $85 million in donations over that time, the California newspaper reported. This, of course, was during the big push to spread the news about the end that wasn’t. The paper also said donations have tumbled nearly 70%  since May 21, 2011, spawning layoffs of longtime employees. And saddled with loans, a dwindling cash flow and alleged mismanagement, the network was reportedly forced to sell off its three biggest stations.

“You eliminate those three (FM stations) and, ultimately, the rest of it dies,” former employee Matt Tuter told the Contra Costa Times. “I believe they are killing it off.”

All of these financial struggles, however, come as the network grapples with losing the voice of its biggest star - Camping himself. He suffered a stroke in June 2011. And though he remains involved and still serves as the network's president, the flagship show he hosted, "Open Forum," is only running previously recorded programs.

It was through Family Radio – and its multitude of U.S. stations, satellite feeds, shortwave radio use, Internet reach and translation machine – that Camping’s teachings and 2011 predictions spread across the globe. His doomsday message was bolstered by a massive billboard campaign at a reported price tag of $5 million. There were also initiatives like Project Caravan, which dispatched teams of volunteers in RVs to warn the people.

CNN hopped on board one caravan and traveled with faithful ambassadors who’d given up everything for this cause.

The coordinator for Project Caravan, Ted Kim, left Family Radio soon after May 21, 2011. Once his ambassadors - still around and not raptured - had a place to go, he told CNN, his work was done.

Even though he doesn't work there anymore, that doesn’t mean he’s lost faith in the mission. He still believes spiritual judgment occurred in 2011 and that the world’s physical destruction is near.

Photos: Doomsdays throughout time

Kim, who is now home schooling his children and caring for his mother, suspects the supporters who fell away had erroneously put more stock in Camping than they’d put in the Bible or God himself.

But Tuter, the former employee who served at Camping’s side for years before he was fired in 2012, suggested to the Contra Costa Times that a demise of Family Radio may be deliberate. He said Camping made it clear to him in 1996 that he wanted the network to die when he did.

"He was very specific he did not want it to continue," Tuter told the newspaper. He said Camping confided in him a week before going into heart surgery: "God raised up Family Radio just as a platform for me!"

Tom Evans, who has taken over the network’s day-to-day reins since Camping suffered that stroke, could not be reached by CNN for comment. But he offered the newspaper a very different perspective than Tuter's. Evans said he hopes that Family Radio can move forward, leaving this end-of-the-world banter behind it.

“We want to be a comfort and reminder of God’s strength and mercy,” he said. “In the end, our founding mission is to proclaim the word of God.”

That mission, coupled with the network’s recent history, may not make them boom like they once did. But to Evans and those who are keeping the faith, neither should it portend doom.

- CNN Writer/Producer

Filed under: End times • Media • Radio

soundoff (1,487 Responses)
  1. belzer

    xtians have a really nasty god. he was really already a dick before the crazys changed up his rep. they even made him out to be more powerful than he really is. and then they wanted him to be real nice sometimes and that po'd him, so now he's really pizzed. anyway i created my own god and i much more calm now. we talk once in a while and i forgive him for some things he might be messing around with or forgot that i asked for. but it's all good – we try to keep it positive.

    May 16, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
  2. DeeNA

    If God so all-powerful and all-knowing, why would he/it even bother with humans? Are we just some kind of silly chess game? ..and more importantly... Why is there nothing in any bible about how to make toilet paper?_______________ ;>P

    May 16, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
    • Reder223


      May 16, 2013 at 5:56 pm |
  3. Observer

    There are far more historical facts that can be verified in "Gone With the Wind" than in the Bible, so Tara and Rhett and Scarlett must have been real.

    May 16, 2013 at 5:25 pm |

    • Are you trying to say they were not?

      May 16, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
  4. Sam

    The end of the world is the day you die, enough said!

    May 16, 2013 at 5:23 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      I know i'll be pi'ssed.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
  5. c

    The Bible specifically sya -nobody knows the day or the hour of Jesus' return; and you have no business trying to predict it(emphasis mine)

    May 16, 2013 at 5:15 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      what is sya?

      May 16, 2013 at 5:32 pm |
    • D

      Well that certainly never stopped good ol Harold. Or stopped all those rubes from sending him their money.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      @ D....................Why do people send him money? If the world is coming to an end, where is he going to spend it?

      May 16, 2013 at 6:27 pm |
  6. Ken Margo

    Trust me there are plenty of F00LS out there that still think the world is going to end on a specific day. Think about this. If you do correctly predict when the world will end. Who'll be around for you to tell? If you are wrong you look like a F00L.

    May 16, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
  7. Eugenian

    Sooo disappointing. We're all doomed to just live out our lives on this lonely planet. Just rocks below, rocks in the sky. No God to save us, no Starman can find us. Our only hope is ice cream. And chocolate. Chocolate with wine is good. So are hamburgers. Mmmmm. Hamburgers.

    May 16, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
    • Mel

      Mmmm! Funny!

      May 16, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • CosmicC

      Chocolate hamburgers? I don't think so. Oh, and you forgot pizza, and cheese steaks (but only those that you get in NYC and Philly, respectively).

      May 16, 2013 at 5:57 pm |
  8. really?

    Only shows if God is out there, it don't listen to fools like this guy.

    May 16, 2013 at 5:06 pm |
  9. Mark

    The Legend of King Arthur is not evidence of Merlin.
    The Greek Myths are not evidence for Heracles.
    The Epic of Beowulf is not evidence for Grendel.
    The American Folk Tradition is not evidence for Paul Bunyan.
    The New Testament is not evidence for Jesus.
    The Old Testament is not evidence for Yahweh.

    The miracles happened ... in the story.
    The prophesies were fulfilled ... in the story.
    The character was emotionally appealing and morally right ... in the story.

    Get out of your stories.

    May 16, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • Coffeenolate


      May 16, 2013 at 5:24 pm |
  10. lionlylamb

    Proof that God exists? Evolution is God's proof! God's kingdom domains are of Life's Inner Chasms! God did establish the kingdom domains (our bodies) to be of evolutionary orders. The final branching of this world's evolutionary trees of cellular cosmologies was for placement of mankind. As to just exactly how things evolve, it is with God's brethren who live deeply within all life biology, who make a tweaking of celestial life's mechanized physiologies to better be served by Life for its Hosts' sakes!

    May 16, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • CosmicC

      What were you thinking? Never mind. What were you smoking...and can I have some?

      May 16, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Cosmic Cannabis is just what the Lord Christ Jesus gave to humanism for spiritual delights and soulful pleasures!

      May 16, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
  11. Phillip Anthony Biondo

    I have been an athiest most of my life untill reciently I changed. I do believe I am a H. Sapien in the milky way but I believe God has updated or patched the program so the earth could have been flat in the past and dinosaurs are just bones in the ground and Great Apes and DNA are a means to an end and that humans are different, and the stars just lights and the whole universe was programmed in. I have experience with hallucinogens that have made things like lighters and pipes and actual drug disappear. I couldn't accept this for years but i changed to accept it. I have been meditating for 10 years and I am 29. I have a theory that this is a computer program made by God and Jesus is in virtual reality and has been hiding from the jews for 2000 years after programming his ressurection. Jesus gave the prophesy of relevations to John the Divine and soon it will take place.

    May 16, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Stay off the pipe another ten years and get back to us.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
    • Answer

      The pipe dreamer who has watched one too many "Matrix" films tries to blend his delusion of jeebus with the modern age of film and fantasy. Bravo.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
    • Eugenian

      Wow. Me too.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • CosmicC

      The mice will see you now.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
    • Bert in UT

      Hey, whatever lights your pipes!

      May 16, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • Coffeenolate

      hippypoet is that you?

      May 16, 2013 at 5:25 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      What hallucinogenics were you using? That's some pretty powerful crap...you have wish to have an MRI done to confirm how much brain damage they caused.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
    • D

      You, sir, were never an atheist.
      Also: nice word-salad!

      May 16, 2013 at 5:58 pm |
    • DeeNA

      He is repenting for once using the lord's name in vain, but right now, can't get the needle out of his vein. So now, his stabilizing vane has come loose.

      May 16, 2013 at 6:28 pm |
    • DeeNA

      Phil, it's 89 degrees out. Put a coat on, you're shivering.

      May 16, 2013 at 6:35 pm |
  12. Graham Ginsberg

    There is no punishment until there is enforcement of the laws that exist way back into Sinai. Jesus had no enforcement, same as Mohammad. Only Moses had enforcement. So there is no messsiah and there is no messenger or whatever until you notice enforcement. When the *&^%$ hits the fan, you know its too late.

    May 16, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Catholics are insane sociopaths

      You are insane. Enforcement? Where? I don't see anything.

      May 16, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • Answer

      "When the *&^%$ hits the fan, you know its too late."

      –The religious cvnts phrase translation is the same as "you'll burn for not accepting my bs"

      May 16, 2013 at 4:49 pm |
  13. Jinm P.

    Doesn't the bible require the death of those who prophesy falsely?

    May 16, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
    • Marc

      Pat Robertson better hide then.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • Bert in UT

      Oooh! I like that idea. Should cut down on the number of world-ends we will have to live through.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:20 pm |
  14. Jesus was a space alien

    I am omnipotent and omnipresent and specialize in virgin births. Please workship me, send me your virgins, and give me your money. I will give you my PO Box.

    Sincerely God

    May 16, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
  15. focus

    This is confusion and diversion from the truth. The truth is that Jesus Christ died for your sins. Believe Jesus and repent of your sins! If you don't believe Jesus, you won't be saved. Read the New Testament, it's the truth, the word of God. And yes, God exists, he's there. You have enough time to tell others the same, and hurry before it's over. You have no idea how long you have, or anyone else has. But if you or others miss out on Jesus Christ, you're doomed. Think about it.

    May 16, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
    • sam

      As another poster so eloquently wrote earlier, Jesus didn't die. He had a bad weekend, then apparently ascended to heaven. That's not much of a sacrifice, now is it?

      May 16, 2013 at 4:45 pm |
    • OldSchool

      I do think, it inhibits me from subscribing to such utter nonsense.

      May 16, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Madtown

      What if I've never heard of Jesus? Do I still qualify? What makes you so much more special than me?

      May 16, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • focus

      I just told you, God exists and Jesus died for your sins.
      The apostles told you.
      Jesus told you.
      The prophets before Jesus, told you.
      Otheres here can tell you.

      If you don't listen to the truth, don't complain when you find out it is what you were told it is: the truth.

      May 16, 2013 at 4:52 pm |
    • Answer

      Ya.. sure.

      What do you want to really say?

      May 16, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
    • Madtown

      If you don't listen to the truth
      Perhaps you need it spelled out a little more clearly for you. Pretend I'm part of a primitive tribe who lives in the rain forest jungle of South America. I've never heard of Jesus, and never will. What will happen to me? Don't I get the same gift you do?

      May 16, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
    • sam

      How much money did you lose to the Camping camp, focus?

      May 16, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Maybe he's fishing for something you'll understand

      May 16, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
    • Answer

      Can a person born with Down syndrome hear the truth?

      The religious retards don't even know how retarded they are, and how lucky a person born with Down syndrome can escape their stupidity.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • Sam

      Somehow, I would give you religious sheep more credibility if you could provide solid, tangible proof. Who was in the garden of Eden with Adam & Eve eye-witnessing their words & deeds? Who was there when Moses brought down the tablets from the mount? And if Sodom & Gomorra was as evil as stated and vanquished, then why hasn't the modern human race been wiped off the face of the Earth? Surely, this modern society is even more corrupt, evil and violent than 2000 years prior? Don't believe everything you read. Question authority!

      May 16, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
    • Answer


      "Question authority!"

      –Religious retards won't do that. It is ingrained in them to give authority over to their bible. Over to their church leaders.
      Never to the government because governments have taken over the proper role of authority.

      You can hear it from their words. Every time they want others to accept them.. they quote from their bible as a fact that it is the ultimate authority given unto them through a delusion.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:30 pm |
    • The Fox

      "There's a sucker born every minute........"

      May 16, 2013 at 5:54 pm |

    Really?!?!?!? You believe in Evolution...sometimes called "Darwinism". Explain to my why everything has stopped "EVOLVING". If humans came from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys? As funny as you think it is that I believe in God, I am absolutely rolling on the floor that you believe it all started with a fish out water.

    May 16, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
    • sam


      May 16, 2013 at 4:35 pm |
    • Boisepoet

      Ignorance on parade...
      Let me guess...they told you at church that evolution was based on humans evolving from monkeys, when evolution theories only posit that humans and most primates shared a common ancestor.

      May 16, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Did you go to school? How many times did you fail grade 1?

      May 16, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
    • Footnotegirl

      Your comment shows a deep lack of understanding on how evolution works (or rampant internet trollism). Evolution has not stopped, it continues on both micro and macro levels. One major example is the flu virus, which constantly evolves (which is why one single vaccine doesn't work and they have new ones each year). And the reason that there are still monkeys is that various species evolved to fit certain niches. Monkeys fit their niche fine, there is no reason to evolve as they successfully reproduce in the environment they are in. Also, it started with one celled organisms.

      May 16, 2013 at 4:45 pm |

      I don't go to church like you assumed. I do my own personal research....and unless you received your education from the Sunday comics, we were all taught in school that humans came from monkeys...excuse me, apes. All because they found a few fossils from Africa of a species that most likely became extinct long ago but sorta resembles a human skeleton. Well I'm sorry, but the skeletons of dogs "sorta" resembles cats...doesn't mean one derived from the other. Ridiculous, really.

      May 16, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
    • sam

      "I don't go to church like you assumed. I do my own personal research...."

      Shit, it's another of HeavenSent's sockpuppets. Get a life, you crazy old bat.

      May 16, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      So what. From your comments it is clear that you did not go to school either. Do you know anyone who has had more than one flu vaccination? Did you ever wonder why if evolution is not a fact? You may prefer to believe ancient superstition over science but that doesn't change facts.

      May 16, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      "Sunday comics, we were all taught in school that humans came from monkeys...excuse me, apes. All because they found a few fossils "

      This just shows how little you understand about evolution. Evolution merely states that we share a common ancestor, nothing more. Even without the fossil record, the DNA evidence alone is enough to prove that Evolution is correct.
      Here maybe this will help, it is a website designed to teach children about Evolution and it seems about your speed: http://www.necsi.edu/projects/evolution/

      May 16, 2013 at 5:07 pm |

      First off, virus's do not have DNA, only genetic material. A virus can only evolve to become a more complex virus of itself. Don't think for a minute you can play mindgames by quickly Googling an inadequate virus topic and think it can prove a point about evolution without doing the research about virus's. You guys always have an excuse..."fit their niche fine"...yea right. So evolution doesn't exist today because everything has met its "niche"...and that ignorance is why you should re-evaluate your life and understand that science is nothing more than a failed attempt at proving God doesn't exist. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, happens perfectly by chance. A perfect earth at a perfect distance with a perfect moon and a perfect star inside a perfect solar system....all because unbelievably small atoms hit each other in the perfect spot of the universe and boom. Hahaha

      May 16, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
    • Answer

      "I won't be there to rub it in your face saying I told you so....but it will be hot."

      -Got any more than that? lol

      May 16, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      I BELIEVE IN GOD–SO WHAT: You're a complete moron..plain and simple. You don't give a damn about what is said back to you, you only speak to try to make yourself look like you have a properly functioning brain but yet your posts tell us otherwise.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:20 pm |
    • SkepticalOne

      You were home schooled weren't you?

      May 16, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      So what. Perfect? The earth has been battered by meteorites and there is a future threat of more. The human body has too many imperfections to have been designed (by a competent designer anyway): the optic nerve causes a big blind spot, the laryngeal nerve has no reason to take the route it does except when you realise it is inherited from our fish ancestors, the spine is not ideal for bipedal motion, etc.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
    • DaTruth

      Nothing has stopped evolving and there was never a fish out of the water. Please go ahead and explain how the earth was created in 7 days and how women being created from a rib bone is more viable than a "fish out of water".

      You are rock-bottom retarded. There is no lower to sink

      May 16, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
    • Pole dancing for Jesus

      You give home schooling a bad name – well badder.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:30 pm |

      You will all burn in Hell...goodbye ignorant parasites

      May 16, 2013 at 5:37 pm |
    • Romnesia

      Bedtime for another fundie in training, back tomorrow with a new handle and the same old cr ap

      May 16, 2013 at 5:42 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      "You will all burn in Hell...goodbye ignorant parasites"

      Are you leaving us? Ah, we're so heartbroken...NOT! You've been proven to be wrong and now you're wee wittle feelings are hurt...run to Mommy, maybe she'll make it all better with some jeebus toast and call to your imaginary friend. Btw: It's your hell, you enjoy it!

      May 16, 2013 at 6:06 pm |

    truth absolute, Mohammad was a bestard

    May 16, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
    • Answer

      slam, wants, world, to go, boom.

      May 16, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
  18. QS


    May 16, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
  19. disgustedvet

    Aside from the fact that this man is an i d i o t ,this article has no value except to give the CNN atheistic base a shouting platform.

    May 16, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • Answer

      To shout at the stupid religious people .. oh boohoo.

      "Let's not pick on the religious tards.."

      May 16, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • sam


      May 16, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      you poor poor persecuted christards.

      May 16, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • disgustedvet


      May 16, 2013 at 5:23 pm |
    • SkepticalOne

      And yet here you are listening to us...

      May 16, 2013 at 5:23 pm |
  20. Mike from CT

    @Peter, I am sadden by your responses. if indeed "Anyone who has read the bible with an open mind will tell you that there are contradictions and outright falsehoods in it. "
    Shouldn't you be more helpful in pointing these out so that we are all better from it. Is that not the end goal to get people away from falsehood?

    "fact that their is zero evidence to support it,"
    Why do you not consider the historical testimony of Christ as no evidence? Surely there is evidence as with any other historical claim. To claim there is NO evidence is just dishonest, what you mean to say is looking at the evidence you chose to dismiss it.

    But please I will try to answer the doubts you have about the scripture please don't make me go through the 700 objections that someone else has. For those have already been addressed.

    May 16, 2013 at 4:26 pm |
    • Answer

      "But please I will try to answer the doubts you have about the scripture please don't make me go through the 700 objections that someone else has. For those have already been addressed."

      Here is something for you ... question the authority of your bible.

      May 16, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • Jinm P.

      Outside of the bible there is no historical evidence for jesus and things it says in many cases are known to be false: There was no major earthquake in Jerusalem that tore the veil in the temple and no record whatsoever of graves opening up and people returning to town to talk to their families and friends as claimed (You'd think *someone* would notice) and Pilate was unlikely to be granting the Jews any favors like releasing a condemned criminal as he was so harsh on them he was finally recalled to Rome for overdoing it.

      The gospels don't even get the dates right, one of the reasons no one has the slightest clue as to the actual birth date of jesus (We do know it wasn't December as sheep were not kept out in open fields int he depths of winter)and more evidence it was not written by people contemporary to the events but quite some time after by someone who wasn't there.

      May 16, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • Tim

      To Mike from CT - 👏

      May 16, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
    • Tim

      Mike from CT-Well researched and well articulated! Kudos!

      May 16, 2013 at 4:42 pm |
    • Tim

      Mike from CT, guess if you accept the bible as evidence of itself that's OK, but you'd have to think a god could do better than that sorry collection of contradictions! Sudos!

      May 16, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
    • Mel

      I do wonder about a god who expects us to believe after he hasn't shown his face for millenia. If at all. Sounds like a con game, and look, yep, here comes the collection plate.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:12 pm |
    • CosmicC

      I think you need to look up the definition of "circular reasoning". You cannot use the existence of the bible to prove anything about the bible.

      May 16, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • Mike from CT

      "Here is something for you ... question the authority of your bible."
      Sure, Jesus only refused to answer one question in all his time. But please be honest with your questions, that is what ever test you use to question the authority that you would apply the same criteria to your current beliefs

      "Outside of the bible there is no historical evidence for jesus"
      Sure there is, there is the Gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Please understand that any writing inside the bible started outside the bible. If you find a creditable scientific article, then you take that same article and publish it in a scientific journal that focuses on a topic, or even better Reader's digest, that does not invalid the original article. Lucky for us there are over 5000 manuscripts that agree to a infinitesimal degree so we can be assured we have what the original writings say.

      "There was no major earthquake in Jerusalem that tore the veil in the temple and no record whatsoever of graves opening up and people returning to town to talk to their families and friends as claimed "
      Except for the record you have as stated above.

      " Pilate was unlikely to be granting the Jews any favors like releasing a condemned criminal as he was so harsh on them he was finally recalled to Rome for overdoing it."
      Not true even "Josephus records that when the Roman governor Albinus was preparing to leave office he released prisoners who had been incarcerated for crimes other than murder (Ant 20.9.3)"

      "The gospels don't even get the dates right, "
      They don't get it wrong either, since they are silent on the subject. The common confusion is that the RCC chose December to overshadow winter solace as a tradition. But December nor any other month is mentioned in the text. No contradiction.


      For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. (Romans 1:19-21, ESV)

      If he did things the way you wanted it to be done he wouldn't be much of a God


      ""circular reasoning". You cannot use the existence of the bible to prove anything about the bible."
      That is a funny, old fallacy. Actually you and I must and only can use circular reason when defining an authority. For if you can use something else to prove your authority than the thing that describes it would be the authority.

      Try it out, which world view is your highest form of authority
      Rationalism - great explain rationalism with out using rational appeal to reason for that would be circular reasoning
      Imperialist - great explain it without appealing to experience for that would be circular reasoning

      But take heart, you and I can not prove anything. We can only come to a judgement based on the evidence provided. I cannot prove to you the Bible is the word of God. You can not prove that we are not in a dream, the matrix, or any other world view you hold. We can only make a verdict on the evidence provided.

      Hope that helps

      May 17, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • Smithsonian

      "Lucky for us there are over 5000 manuscripts that agree to a infinitesimal degree so we can be assured we have what the original writings say."

      From the world's largest research center. The Bible is primarily a book of religion, a guide to faith. it was not a book of history, poetry, economics, or science. It contains all sorts of literary genre, which are used to teach about the relationship between God and mankind. Even biblical history is edited history: events were chosen to illustrate the central theme of the Bible. The Biblical writers did not pretend they were giving a complete history; instead they constantly refer us to other sources for full historical details, sources such as "The Annals of the Kings of Judah" (or Israel).

      It is therefore not possible to try to "prove" the Bible by means of checking its historical or scientific accuracy. The only "proof" to which it can be subjected is this: Does it correctly portray the God-human relationship? In the best analysis, the Bible is a religious book, not an historical document.

      May 17, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • @chad

      @Mike from CT
      The difference Mike, is that in order to cling on to your world-view, you need to reject mountains of evidence that contradicts much of your bible’s myths.

      May 17, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      The bible makes the most sense when you read it for what it is: a collection of revised and edited myths.

      May 17, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • Mike from CT

      @Smith, how many times do I have to post this.

      From the world's largest research center. (same doc.ument)
      "On the other hand, much of the Bible, in particular the historical books of the old testament, are as accurate historical doc.uments as any that we have from antiquity and are in fact more accurate than many of the Egyptian, Mesopotamian, or Greek histories. These Biblical records can be and are used as are other ancient docu.ments in archeological work."

      @chad, can you provide an example? Their is also a mountain of evidence supporting the reliability of the bible, see the above paragraph. Seems we are both guilty of the same issue.

      Can you please provide "mountains of evidence" to support your claim " a collection of revised and edited myths."
      Because the bible passes all test of history literature, like literary style of historical narrative for the Gospels.

      Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things that have been accomplished among us, just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us, it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, that you may have certainty concerning the things you have been taught. (Luke 1:1-4, ESV)

      In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of the region of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene, during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness. (Luke 3:1-2, ESV)

      May 17, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.