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May 20th, 2013
10:28 AM ET
High court to review church-state dispute over public prayersBy Bill Mears, CNN Supreme Court Producer Washington (CNN) - A dispute over public prayers at town board meetings will be taken up by the Supreme Court in coming months, another contentious case over the intersection of faith and the public arena. The justices announced Monday it will decide whether a New York community may continue what it calls "inclusive" prayers at its town board sessions. The policy now allows Wiccans and atheists to offer invocations. But some local citizens sued and a federal appeals court found the policy to be an unconstitutional violation of the Establishment Clause, which forbids any government "endorsement" of religion. The petition will be argued later this year or early in 2014, with a ruling ready by the spring. The case is Town of Greece, N.Y. v. Galloway (12-696). FULL STORY
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Good one derp, but no cigar. Hitler was a Jew.
Stalking, stalking, stalking. That's all phony heavensent knows to do, besides lying and stealing, as she pretends to have friends writing to back up her babble using multiple handles. To simple for words. LOL.
No one is happier then a hindu pig, ignorant atheist, self centered by nature then a hindu pig filthy secular, self centered in mud of his hindu atheism, filthy self center ism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzrX9R5kfGo
all hail to PIGamber Mohammad (PIGS BE UPON HIM)
lol!! is that Mohammad A. Dar taking mud bath?
A hindu atheist, filthy self centered by nature, not different than a hindu atheist, filthy secular, self centered by faith.
WHY ARE WE LOOKING AT A VID OF YOUR FAT, UGLY FAMILY, MOHAMMAD? NO ONE WANTS TO WATCH YOUR PIGGY MOM ROLL IN THE MUD.
where is her burca? why Madam Mohammad is bathing in open? lol!!
??
^_^
Oh, what a nice kitty! You're so wonderful, yes you are!
^_^
Especially MASTER BAITERS.
BAITERS never change.
ban on terrorist activities in public places.
I find whiskers pleasant.
Took a dump while getting a hummer once.
She was not very happy.
Hitler was christian. He murdered atheists and jews because he thought he was doing gods work.
So do kitties.
You want us all to be atheists?
What are they talking about in this article when the say "The policy now allows Wiccans and atheists to offer invocations."
Ok, Wiccans yes that makes sense, BUT ATHEISTS?!?
Atheists do not "offer invocations"
Not once...not ever.
M, is your thinking so limited that you cannot conceive of an atheist vocalizing their best hopes for a legislative body, perhaps if only to request it to ignore religious cult mythology as it deals with real world problems?
@HotAirAce
Then call it a request.
Perhaps you should review the definition of invocation. It does not mean an appeal to some god.
Sorry, does not have to mean. . .
An invocation is "to call upon" or "invoke" or "conjure" usually a deity, force or power. Generally presented as a prayer. It still doesn't make much sense to think an atheist would perform such a ritual.
Oh those poor dead jew zombie vampire cannibal death cult members aka christians. They've enjoyed a special place for 2,000+ years based on fiction in The Babble., and now they're unhappy that society is waking up and on the road to relegating religion to the same status as astrology. Bye bye whingers!!
What we hate in others is usually what we hate about ourselves.
Good luck and don't be afraid to ask for help.
Well I guess I've been told!
Get back to me when you get out of Pysch 101, and can explain your cliche. . .
Wow. A compplete analysis of a person from one post.
Maybe if you take a few more classes you'll learn that people are more complicated than that.
___>>>Wow. A compplete analysis of a person from one post.
"HotAirAce" has made thousands and thousands of posts. Thousands. Always complaining and blaming others, never looking at himself.
He needs to get off the religion blog and find a hobby he enjoys!
I have several hobbies that I thoroughly enjoy. Posting here is just a minor amusement.
And please provide references to me complaining and blaming others.
909, if HAA's posts annoy you so much, why do you read them?
Do you watch TV shows you dislike? Go to restaurants and eat food you hate?
You claim HAA is "complaining" and "blaming". Put up some proof; otherwise, you're just a liar.
I really use to enjoy chocolate until the air conditioner quit working.
lol!!
The following should eliminate the issue once and for all:
Putting the kibosh on all religion in less than ten seconds: Priceless !!!
• As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.
• As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.
• There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.
• There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.
• There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.
• Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.
• Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.
• A constant cycle of reincarnation until enlightenment is reached and belief that various beings (angels?, tinkerbells? etc) exist that we, as mortals, cannot comprehend makes for a no on Sikhism.
Added details available upon written request.
A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.
e.g. Taoism
"The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.
Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "
Not sure I agree with your argument, primarily because religion is as much a social tradition as a theological discussion. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all share the same root of tradition. A part of the problem is that Western traditions hold that these faiths are a literal history.
I would argue that some of the elements are historical, but many are not. As a Christian, I have a great deal of respect for Jesus, and for Mohammad. The historical Jesus was Jewish, and so much of the Christian faith cannot be interpreted apart from the Judaic traditions. Similarly, I respect Mohammad for seeking a path of surrender to God that would unite a place and time that was tribal and often in violent conflict. I do not hold him as a prophet, but I understand why many do.
Eastern religions are a bit more transparent in presenting themselves as being a bit more philisophical and transcendant. And, of course, modern religions (humanism, atheism, and rationalism) present themselves as not being religions at all.
From my perspective, I do not care if someone else prays, publicly or otherwise. Whether we are of the same faith or not is irrelevant to the matter. As long as I am neither compelled to pray or to not pray in public, I have no serious objections.
Added details:
Only for the those interested in a religious update:
1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482
“New Torah For Modern Minds
Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “
prob•a•bly
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.
2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.
The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
earlychristianwritings.com/
For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".
Current RCC problems:
Too many pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!
2 b., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).
Current problems:
Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,
3. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.
This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, the Filipino “koranics”and the Boston Marthon bombers.
And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.
Current crises:
The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.
4. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) – "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."
The caste/laborer system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."
Current problems:
The caste system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence.
5. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."
"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"
Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circu-mstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.
Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.
Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace and religious awareness in the world!!!!!
Dave,
Matthew 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Jesus was Judean.
Amen.
Christians celebrate the day Jesus was conceived.
Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
John the Baptist (cousin to Jesus) was born six months before Jesus.
Amen.
Christians are celebrating the day that God impregnated a young married Jewish girl.
Observer,
Matthew 1:18
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Amen.
HeavenSent,
"When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost."
It all depends on how you translate "before they came together" which follows "Mary was espoused to Joseph". I have always seen it interpreted as "before they consummated their marriage". That is what I based my comment on.
I will admit when I am wrong and this is an area of interpretation so I won't make that claim again.
An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments using rigorous historical testing methods have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.
Matt 2: 1, Luke 1: 41 and Matt 1: 18 are, based on these rigorous historical reviews, not historical.
Some added details:
ttp://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb007.html
Luedemann (Jesus, 280f) finds the genealogies in both Matthew and Luke to be theological creations with no historical basis. In similar vein he finds no historical value in the dispute over the davidic lineage of the Messiah (Mark 12:35-37 and parallels), finding it instead to be the product of "a learned scribal" effort to demonstrate that Jesus is "more than son of David, namely son of God." (Jesus, 87)
John P. Meier – Religion Professor at Notre Dame
"Meier [Marginal Jew I,216-219] notes that the "affirmation of Jesus' descent from David might easily be placed alongside his birth at Bethlehem as a theologoumenon (a theological insight narrated as a historical event) if it were not for the fact that numerous and diverse streams of NT tradition also affirm Jesus' Davidic lineage." Meier suggests that the belief that Jesus was "son of David" may have been held by Jesus' followers prior to his death, with his resurrection then being understood as a form of enthronement. However, he notes that such messianic views, whatever their provenance, cannot prove Jesus was "literally, biologically of Davidic stock."
http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb026.html
Gerd Luedemann
"Luedemann [Jesus, 122-24] presents four (4) reasons for regarding the miraculous conception of Jesus as unhistorical: (1) Numerous parallels in the history of religion; (2) it represents a rare and late NT tradition; (3) Synoptic descriptions of Jesus' relations with his family are inconsistent with such an event; and (4) scientific considerations.
More positively, Luedemann concludes that we can extract as a historical fact behind Matt 1.18-25 the existence of a hostile rumor about the illegitimacy of Jesus. Luedemann suggests that ra-pe by an unnamed man, possibly even a Roman soldier, is the most likely explanation. He notes that while such an event would have disqualified Mary from marriage to a priest, it would not have prevented from marrying and have other children.
Luedemann [Jesus, 261-63] discounts Luke's account as a legend deriving from Jewish Hellenistic circles that were concerned to hold together the procreation of the Spirit, the authentic sonship of the Messiah and the vi-rginal conception."
John P. Meier
Meier [Marginal Jew I,220-22] discusses the virginal conception as part of his larger chapter on Jesus' origins. He earlier notes that both infancy narratives "seem to be largely the product of Christian reflection on the salvific meaning of Jesus Christ in the light of OT prophecies (p. 213). At the end of his examination, Meier concludes:
The ends result of this survey must remain meager and disappointing to both defenders and opponents of the doctrine of the virginal conception. Taken by itself, historical-critical research simply does not have the sources and tools available to reach a final decision on the historicity of the virginal conception as narrated by Matthew and Luke. One's acceptance or rejection of the doctrine will be largely influenced by one's own philosophical and theological presuppositions, as well as the weight one gives to Church teaching.
If religion could be silenced as easily as your post suggests, it would have been long before any of us were born. Religion, or faith, at least, is a personal matter not subject to arguments such as yours.
Tis tough to cure the Three B Syndrome, i.e. Bred, Born and Brainwashed in religion.
To wit;
“John Hick, a noted British philosopher of religion, estimates that 95 percent of the people of the world owe their religious affiliation to an accident (the randomness) of birth. The faith of the vast majority of believers depends upon where they were born and when. Those born in Saudi Arabia will almost certainly be Moslems, and those born and raised in India will for the most part be Hindus. Nevertheless, the religion of millions of people can sometimes change abruptly in the face of major political and social upheavals. In the middle of the sixth century ce, virtually all the people of the Near East and Northern Africa, including Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt were Christian. By the end of the following century, the people in these lands were largely Moslem, as a result of the militant spread of Islam.
The Situation Today
Barring military conquest, conversion to a faith other than that of one’s birth is rare. Some Jews, Moslems, and Hindus do convert to Christianity, but not often. Similarly, it is not common for Christians to become Moslems or Jews. Most people are satisfied that their own faith is the true one or at least good enough to satisfy their religious and emotional needs. Had St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas been born in Mecca at the start of the present century, the chances are that they would not have been Christians but loyal followers of the prophet Mohammed. “ J. Somerville
It is very disturbing that religious narrow- mindedness, intolerance, violence and hatred continues unabated due to randomness of birth. Maybe, just maybe if this fact would be published on the first page of every newspaper every day, that we would finally realize the significant stupidity of all religions.
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)
Actually, most contemporary NT exegetes believe after exhaustive research that the epistles to Timothy (and Ti-tus) were not written by Paul but by "wannabee" Pauls. See Father Ray Brown's analyses in his 878 page book, An Introduction to the New Testament pp. 639, 654, 673:
an excerpt:
"Authenticity: Probably written by a disciple of Paul or a sympathetic commentator of the Pauline heritage several decades after the apostle's death. "
See also Professors Crossan and Reed's book, In Search of Paul and Professor Bruce Chilton's book, Rabbi Paul.
And Paul (or his "wannabees") the Prophet? Hardly, he could not even get the timing of Jesus' second coming correct but it did serve to dramatically increase both the conversion rate and the coffers. Hmmm, contemporary preachers/fortune tellers/Mormon "profiteers" still use that con game.
Areas where legislation is based wholly or partially on the Bible.
1. Laws that prohibit murder
2. Laws that prohibit theft
3. Laws that prohibit oppression of religion.
The code of Hammurabi prohibited theft and murder. It also predates the bible by nearly 2000 years.
@NothingLeft2Loose
You said, "Areas where legislation is based wholly or partially on the Bible.
1. Laws that prohibit murder
2. Laws that prohibit theft
3. Laws that prohibit oppression of religion."
Bullshit. Murder and theft were recognized as crimes long before the bible ever reared its ugly head. Laws prohibiting "oppression of religion" were enacted to limit the reach of the bible and other fairy tales.
Nothing, I surely hope but doubt that your moniker is tongue-in-cheek. You are simply wrong about laws being based on the bible. They are not. Laws in this country are based on the protection of individual rights. Murder, theft, and r ape infringe on those rights; that is why they're illegal. Furthermore, how do you explain the fact that murder is illegal in nations that are largely secular?
I suggest you get a history book and read it.
Yea, the code of Hammurabi has influenced the American Justice system, too.
So do you admit that none of those laws are based wholly on the bible?
@The real Tom
🙂
I meant to reply to 'dyslexic dog's list. His/her mind would be blown if he/she attended a service at my church...
He/she could not honestly say "You suppress science, you oppress women. You bully and badger anyone not believing as you do. "
He/she would be lying if they said that.
Not all Christians fit into his/her narrow-minded understanding.
@ So do you admit that none of those laws are based wholly on the bible?
Yes. But the Bible had and has serious influence on American laws. Not saying that is good or bad – just the way it is.
Our American Justice system appears to be a joke anyway – the rich can get away with murder. The poor are seriously oppressed.
"3. Laws that prohibit oppression of religion"
Really? The Bible has been used as a tool of oppression far more often than it has been used to oppose it....
Why are you using the word "loose" in your moniker?
I would say that our legal system shares a few similarities with laws common to the bible and other cultures. No part of our legal system is based on anything that is exclusive to the bible.
Many OT, NT and koran thu-mpers are actually thu-mping the rules and codes of the ancients like King Hammurabi and the Egyptians who wrote the Book of the Dead and who did NOT need revelations from angels or mountain voices to develop needed rules of conduct for us h-o-minids.
"Hail to thee, great God, Lord of the Two Truths. I have come unto thee, my Lord, that thou mayest bring me to see thy beauty. I know thee, I know thy name, I know the names of the 42 Gods who are with thee in this broad hall of the Two Truths . . . Behold, I am come unto thee. I have brought thee truth; I have done away with sin for thee. I have not sinned against anyone. I have not mistreated people. I have not done evil instead of righteousness . . .
I have not reviled the God.
I have not laid violent hands on an orphan.
I have not done what the God abominates . . .
I have not killed; I have not turned anyone over to a killer.
I have not caused anyone's suffering . . .
I have not copulated (illicitly); I have not been unchaste.
I have not increased nor diminished the measure, I have not diminished the palm; I have not encroached upon the fields.
I have not added to the balance weights; I have not tempered with the plumb bob of the balance.
I have not taken milk from a child's mouth; I have not driven small cattle from their herbage...
I have not stopped (the flow of) water in its seasons; I have not built a dam against flowing water.
I have not quenched a fire in its time . . .
I have not kept cattle away from the God's property.
I have not blocked the God at his processions."
"The Book of the Dead was written circa 1800 BCE. 2 The Schofield Reference Bible estimates that the Hebrew Exodus from Egypt and the provision of the Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai occurred in 1491 BCE., some three centuries later. Many religious liberals, historians, and secularists have concluded that the Hebrew Scripture's Ten Commandments were based on this earlier docu-ment, rather than vice-versa."
And it is doubtful that Moses even existed or that there even was an Exodus. (See below for added details.)
@Why are you using the word "loose" in your moniker?
I'm funny!
@Really? The Bible has been used as a tool of oppression far more often than it has been used to oppose it....
That says more about the person than the Bible. If the Bible wasn't there they would find something else to oppress with.
@ No part of our legal system is based on anything that is exclusive to the bible.
No kidding.
origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.
New Torah For Modern Minds
“Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).
The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.
The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."
Nothing
Don't be ridiculous
Men's laws were written into the bible and many other religious doc uments.
It's like the golden rule...it is in nearly every religion that ever was in one form or another...the bible does not have exclusivity.
The Old Testament and its god-approved atrocities:
To wit:
•Exodus 32: 3,000 Israelites killed by Moses for worshipping the golden calf.
•Numbers 31: After killing all men, boys and married women among the Midianites, 32,000 virgins remain as booty for the Israelites. (If unmarried girls are a quarter of the population, then 96,000 people were killed.)
•Joshua: ◦Joshua 8: 12,000 men and women, all the people of Ai, killed.
◦Joshua 10: Joshua completely destroys Gibeon ("larger than Ai"), Makeddah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir. "He left no survivors."
◦Joshua 11: Hazor destroyed. [Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (1987), estimates the population of Hazor at ?> 50,000]
◦TOTAL: if Ai is average, 12,000 x 9 = 108,000 killed.
•Judges 1: 10,000 Canaanites k. at Battle of Bezek. Jerusalem and Zephath destroyed.
•Judges 3: ca. 10,000 Moabites k. at Jordan River.
•Judges 8: 120,000 Midianite soldiers k. by Gideon
•Judges 20: Benjamin attacked by other tribes. 25,000 killed.
•1 Samuel 4: 4,000 Isrealites killed at 1st Battle of Ebenezer/Aphek. 30,000 Isr. k. at 2nd battle.
•David: ◦2 Samuel 8: 22,000 Arameans of Damascus and 18,000 Edomites killed in 2 battles.
◦2 Samuel 10: 40,000 Aramean footsoldiers and 7,000 charioteers killed at Helam.
◦2 Samuel 18: 20,000 Israelites under Absalom killed at Ephraim.
•1 Kings 20: 100,000 Arameans killed by Israelites at Battle of Aphek. Another 27,000 killed by collapsing wall.
•2 Chron 13: Judah beat Israel and inflicted 500,000 casualties.
•2 Chron 25: Amaziah, king of Judah, k. 10,000 from Seir in battle and executed 10,000 POWs. Discharged Judean soldiers pillaged and killed 3,000.
•2 Chron 28: Pekah, king of Israel, slew 120,000 Judeans
•TOTAL: That comes to about 1,283,000 mass killings specifically enumerated in the Old Testament/Torah.
The New Testament has only one major atrocity, that of god committing filicide assuming you believe in this Christian mumbo jumbo. Said atrocity should be enough to vitiate all of Christianity.
@ the bible does not have exclusivity.
No kidding. I don't know anyone that claims this.
Historical Biblicity stands at 100% and has never been lacking.
@Reality
Go copy and paste your cute things somewhere else... oh wait you have... hundreds and hundreds of times all over this blog.
God bless!
HeavenScent,
There is nothing in your bible that is historically accurate unless it is by accident.
Nothing
You started "Areas where legislation is based wholly or partially on the Bible.
1. Laws that prohibit murder
2. Laws that prohibit theft
3. Laws that prohibit oppression of religion.
That implies that it is based on the bible, but you can find the same in many religions...it was only your implication I responded to.
@Richard
I was just making a parody of 'Dyslexic doG's list (which is just as ignorant as mine).
@NothingLeft2Loose ... why ignorant, when everything I listed is an example of how I am oppressed by your bronze age voodoo.
Poe had you in mind when writing Poe's Law: it's impossible to distinguish a sufficiently advanced troll from a truly ignorant twit
Phony heavensent toxic as usual, caring less whether attention is positive or negative, only caring that attention is given. Pay her no mind, she'll be babbling in court as Jodie Arias tried to baffle the world with her babble. LOL
My lady parts smell like a bucket of two week old fish innards mixed with mens truating camel urine.
Amen
Phony heavensent stalking as usual.
A wholesome tongue [is] a tree of life: but perverseness therein [is] a breach in the spirit.
Proverbs 15:4
Amen.
A wholesome tongue is firmly wedged between my massive cellulite laden thighs. My dog does not seem very happy about it. He wants me to get my fat a s s off of his head.
Mark 3:22
Amen
Phony heavensent, once a lying BAITER always a lying BAITER. You do know the woes in His truth.
"Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a liar" - Proverbs 30:6.
Amen.
Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
Amen.
"And the mamonites shall have control of the camel's eye through the wisdom of a potato floating above an infants head"
Joe Blow 32:8
Deuteronomy 25:11-13
If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.
We live in the USA where we are oppressed by much of the populous using the Bible and Christianity as justification for the oppression. Is it any wonder we comment on this bronze age, nonsensical voodoo the way we do?
There are countless ways that Christianity's bronze age voodoo affects my life and my family's life every day. You suppress science, you oppress women. You bully and badger anyone not believing as you do. The list goes on and on ...
Areas where legislation is based wholly or partially on the Bible.
1. Laws that prohibit or limit alcohol consumption on Sundays.
2. Laws that try and limit the teaching of evolution in school.
3. Laws that limit access to contraceptives.
4. Laws that limit a woman's right to choose.
5. Laws that limit gay rights.
6. Laws that limit immunization against HPV.
science in science class, gay marriage, stem cell research, women's reproductive rights, "blue" laws, etc.
Absolutely right! These laws are based on irrationality at their core and need to be removed.
American law is based primarily on Greek and Roman structures as modified by English common law. The founders knew this. Which is why they opined that a commitment to religious values by the electorate was necessary for the proper execution of these laws. The problem isn't hat we have too few or too many Bible based laws. It's that we have too few people capable of living in a society which requires what I will call a "providential mindset".
Bill, do you have an example for:
"Which is why they opined that a commitment to religious values by the electorate was necessary for the proper execution of these laws."?
Jesus is coming soon, thanks to fools like dog.
Matthew 24:38-39
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Amen.
Then you should be most grateful to doG, HS. Instead you're here calling him a fool.
Look who's backing her dummy handle. The queen of the vipers. LOL.
Bill Deacon, Rome fell due to lawlessness.
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1 Timothy 1:9
Amen.
Poor HS. How long have you suffered from Alzheimer's? Oh, wait. You can't recall, can you?
I don't use any moniker but this one, darling. You only assume I do because it makes you feel better about yourself.
say what? I am primarily thinking of George Washington's farewell address. You can google it I don't have time to navigate the word filter.
Tom,
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 2:22
Amen.
"Jesus is coming soon"
Really?
When?
But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matthew 24:36
Amen.
"But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only"
Then how do you know he is coming soon?
Dyslexic doG, you posted "We live in the USA where we are oppressed by much of the populous using the Bible and Christianity as justification for the oppression. Is it any wonder we comment on this bronze age, nonsensical voodoo the way we do?
There are countless ways that Christianity's bronze age voodoo affects my life and my family's life every day. You suppress science, you oppress women. You bully and badger anyone not believing as you do. The list goes on and on ...
Areas where legislation is based wholly or partially on the Bible.
1. Laws that prohibit or limit alcohol consumption on Sundays.
2. Laws that try and limit the teaching of evolution in school.
3. Laws that limit access to contraceptives.
4. Laws that limit a woman's right to choose.
5. Laws that limit gay rights.
6. Laws that limit immunization against HPV."
Question: When are you going to complain about MADD, because a drunk also knows not what he/she does when behind the wheel intoxicated?
derp, we know God's truth because He wrote us a letter that we've read.
HeavenScat: "Question: When are you going to complain about MADD, because a drunk also knows not what he/she does when behind the wheel intoxicated?"
I think you must be intoxicated. What in the world would possess you to type such inanity?
The real Tom, you posted "HeavenScat: "Question: When are you going to complain about MADD, because a drunk also knows not what he/she does when behind the wheel intoxicated?"
I think you must be intoxicated. What in the world would possess you to type such inanity?"
Answer: Like drunks, you atheists know not what you do. Piece of cake, piece of pie.
What is the atheist response to OK citizens right now? Not looking for the predictable xtians rebuttal response what is THEIR response?
To do our part with charitable donations and other support, just like believers.
Austin bluff,
In addition to giving to top charity organizations like the Red Cross, atheists and agnostics continue to pay higher taxes that help subsidize all the tax money that churches that don't pay.
HeavenSent, I'm not sure how you equate MADD with religious activism. MADD are trying to stop irresponsible behavior which kills many by stiffening the penalties and the general attitudes to drunk driving. What's irresponsible about teaching facts in a science class or immunizing against a preventable disease?
Deuteronomy 22:13-21
1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord. 2 A bastrd shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.