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May 21st, 2013
04:45 PM ET
Who hears #PrayersForOklahoma?By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - God may not notice the thousands of prayers tweeted for victims of Oklahoma’s devastating tornado - but Ricky Gervais sure has. And he is not pleased. As of Tuesday afternoon, more than 75,000 people have used the hashtag #PrayForOklahoma, including pop starlets, pastors and politicians, according to Topsy.com, a trend-monitoring site. For example, the White House tweeted, But the hashtag and the sentiments it promotes prompted a fierce backlash on social media, led by Gervais, a British comedian, and other prominent nonbelievers. And while one Oklahoma City pastor says he appreciates the Twitter prayers, some religious scholars say devout petitions require more than moving your hands across a keyboard. "A prayer is supposed to have a consequence for you," said Elizabeth Drescher, a lecturer at Santa Clara University in California. "It's not an act of magic." Gervais, an ardent foe of organized religion, was more caustic. After MTV tweeted that pop stars Beyonce, Rihanna and Katy Perry are sending their prayers to Oklahoma, Gervais responded, “I feel like an idiot now … I only sent money.” Gervais and other atheists also kick-started a counter-trend, using the hashtag #ActuallyDoSomethingForOklahoma. “If all people are doing is praying, it is worthless,” Hemant Mehta, an Illinois math teacher who writes the blog “Friendly Atheist,” told CNN. “If they are praying and donating to the Red Cross, that’s more like it.” Mehta is promoting a group called Foundation Beyond Belief that aims to provide a humanist response to crises like the Oklahoma tornado. The prayer debate spilled into other social media sites as well, with commenters on CNN’s Facebook page sparring over God’s role in Monday’s destructive whirlwind. According to Oklahoma officials, 24 people have died, many more are injured, and once-orderly streets look likes foretastes of the apocalypse. In response to a woman who said she was praying for the victims, Facebook commenter Peter Tongue replied, “If prayer works, there wouldn’t be a disaster like this in the first place .... so please keep your religion to yourself.” But believers had their say as well. “God is still in control!” said Wilbur Dugger, a commenter on CNN’s Facebook page. “Everything (God) does is to get our attention. … My sympathy and prayers go out to those who get caught up in his demonstrations of (God) ruling the world.” The social-media sparring over prayer and God’s will reflect a culture in which traditional notions of religion - and the places where people talk about faith - are changing faster than a Twitter feed, said Drescher, the Santa Clara lecturer. “We’re watching people re-articulate what it means to be spiritual and religious,” she said. Just a few years ago, for example, no one knew what a hashtag was. Now the “#PrayFor...” meme appears after almost every national and international tragedy. But what exactly does it mean? Is the tweeting multitude really folding its hands in prayer, or is it a fleeting expression of existential angst? Or maybe just a trendy thing to say? “It seems to express hope and anxiety, and maybe even helplessness,” Drescher said. “At the same time, it evokes this strong response from people who see it as a cop-out, a way of claiming some kind of spiritual space that doesn’t actually have any meaning to the people who are posting the meme or the community they are addressing.” Traditionally, prayer has required something of the pray-er: an orientation toward reverence, a readiness to act, Drescher continued. “You are meant to do something - and that something may not be an easy thing.” Slapping a hashtag at the end of a tweet doesn’t meet that standard, the scholar said. The Rev. David Johnson of St. Andrew’s United Methodist Church in Oklahoma City said the prayerful tweets mean something to him - even if he’s been too busy to read them. Since Monday, St. Andrew’s has become a Red Cross command post and reunion site for families to find loved ones caught in the tornado’s path. The tragedy has also touched the congregation itself, with homes, and some lives, lost on Tuesday, Johnson said. Told of the Twitter prayers, Johnson said, “that’s awesome.” “People feel helpless - like God called them to do something but they don’t know what. That’s where prayer comes in.” Johnson said his church appreciates the many material donations coming its way: the generator sent by a lady from Arkansas, the food and water sent from neighboring towns. But they also solicit, and are happy to receive, the many prayers recited - or tweeted - on their behalf, he said. “We’ve seen quite a lot of trauma in the last day,” Johnson said. “Obviously, people are going to ask why God allows tornadoes to happen. That’s just part of this world. God doesn’t promise us that bad things won’t happen, he promises to help us get through it. That’s what prayer helps us do.” soundoff (3,515 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Evolution wins............No red devil either !
Evolving Genes Lead to Evolving Genes: Selection in European Populations of Genes Regulated by FOXP2
Apr. 18, 2013 — Researchers have designed a method that can universally test for evolutionary adaption, or positive (Darwinian) selection, in any chosen set of genes, using re-sequencing data such as that generated by the 1000 Genomes Project. The method identifies gene sets that show evidence for positive selection in comparison with matched controls, and thus highlights genes for further functional studies.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130418124905.htm
Peace
Oldest of the old.............the RCC ...........BedVrooooom.............and the red devil................not funny !
Thanks for your insightful comments Ricky Gervais. I'm so glad that you and other celebrities with all your money can donate to the cause for victims of the Oklahoma tornadoes. Unfortunately the average person doesn't make a million dollars a year for being some overblown ass-hat comedian who's not funny and can't afford to donate to the cause. For a lot of people praying for the victims is all they can do. As much as you may hate fervent religious followers shoving their religion in your face, others hate you shoving your opposition to religion in theirs. You bragging about giving money doesn't make you a saint.
Free Will and Future are inherent to all the thinking beings in the Universe. This being the case, it is not possible to alter life with prayers.
Statistically, your request might come true but it is simply the result of the variability/randomness of Nature..
So put down your rosaries and prayer beads and stop worshiping/revering cows or bowing to Mecca five times a day. Instead work hard at your job, take care of aging parents, volunteer at a soup kitchen, donate to charities and the poor and continue to follow the proper rules of living as gracious and good human beings.
I don't think it's a matter of Atheists becoming more vocal as one person said. It's that some Atheists are becoming caustic, rude, judgmental and obnoxious about one's own personal belief. What happened to live and let live? You don't want religious people knocking you so why are you trying to bully people who want to pray? We happen to believe that prayer works, you don't ... so don't pray!
It's not a "personal" belief if you're sharing it with others. At that point it becomes a public belief. Try to influence laws by your beliefs and it goes from public belief to social dictate. What you hear more from atheists is an awareness of this process and our resistance because we find it unacceptable in enlightened and modern society. Don't take it personally. It's not you we hate—it's ignorance.
@Angel
You said, "It's that some Atheists are becoming caustic, rude, judgmental and obnoxious about one's own personal belief."
If you don't want your silly superstitions and infantile beliefs ridiculed, you do have a few options. You could stop displaying them on a public forum, or you could grow up and shed them.
You said, "What happened to live and let live?"
You first.
You said, "You don't want religious people knocking you so why are you trying to bully people who want to pray? We happen to believe that prayer works, you don't ... so don't pray!"
Feel free to pray all you want. Just expect to get called on the nonsense if you do it in public.
For me, the main thrust against prayer is that if that many people prey to make them feel better about themselves as if they actually did something. It is immensely confusing that people who say "God is control," that God chooses who lives and die, pray as if they also believe they can change the will of God. What, exactly, are they praying beyond "Thy will be done?" We CAN help in real ways with or without prayer, and the only thing we know for certain is that our actions can effect the outcome.
@ garyoster, I agree. But in the defense of christians, Jesus did say to ask ANYTHING in his name and it will be done. You can't blame children for believing the lie of a parent. However, after repeatedly seeing the lie, to continue to believe it is just stubborn foolishness... Fool me once, and whatnot.
"Live and let live" ? Do you mean like this passage from your "good" book? Do you agree with its message ?
2 Thessalonians, 8-9:"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power."
However, Glen Beck, the pro-life former Fox News television show host and current radio show host deserves significant praise for organizing a Convoy of Hope. He quickly assembled two semi-trucks full of food, diapers and other supplies for the tornado victims.
Below are some tweets from his timeline about the convey his group Mercury One charity quickly organized for those in the Moore, Oklahoma area.
Glenn Beck, of television and radio fame, was nearby when the storm hit. He came to town overnight with two truckloads of supplies, set up shop at First Baptist Church of Moore, and has promised to raise $2 million to help — much as he did after Hurricane Sandy in the East.
He also promised that gold was a safe buy.
Some are on the outside looking in and they feel left out and they want to be included. Well, you need to start by getting right with God. "As many as received Him to them He gave the right to become children of God". ...John 1
Taking god down a notch helps: (if you happen to believe in this deity inanity)
In Church: The Human Story of God, Schillebeeckx says, "Therefore the historical future is not known even to God; otherwise we and our history would be merely a puppet show in which God holds the strings. For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women."
Bottom line: One of God's greatest gifts to us is that of the Future.
Schillebeeckx was responding to the Dutch citizens who were blaming God for the North Sea storms that destroyed a significant number of levees resulting in a significant loss of life and severe storm damage. Sound familiar??
Reality… You stated "Taking god down a notch helps…"
You're delusional. How can any mortal, sinful, and immoral being, one whose understanding of the universe is so limited they can't even understand their own place in it, be able to take an eternal, all-seeing and all-knowing and only wise God, one who's knowledge is so vast and who's wisdom so great, he created the heavens, the earth, the universe and everything in, one who knows all and understands all, a God's who's forever perfect and forever holy and there's nothing he don't know – how could you possibly say anything or do anything to take him down a notch? If you believe that nonsense then not only are you seriously deluded, but you're as bad as Lucifer, who long ago got the same stupid thought. And you see what that got him. The only thing that any fool will get by thinking too much of themselves and assuming in their mind they can take God down a notch, is a well-deserved and well-earned place in the lake of fire and brimstone. Count on it. So get real...
Taking the deity down a few more notches:
o WHERE WAS YOUR GOD(S) WHEN THE FOLLOWING TOOK PLACE:
The Twenty (or so) Worst Things GOD'S CREATURES Have Done to Each Other:
M. White, http://necrometrics.com/warstatz.htm#u (required reading)
The Muslim Conquest of India
"The likely death toll is somewhere between 2 million and 80 million. The geometric mean of those two limits is 12.7 million. "
Rank …..Death Toll ..Cause …..Centuries……..(Religions/Groups involved)*
1. 63 million Second World War 20C (Christians et al and Communists/atheists vs. Christians et al, Nazi-Pagan and "Shintoists")
2. 40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C (Communism)
3. 40 million Genghis Khan 13C (Shamanism or Tengriism)
4. 27 million British India (mostly famine) 19C (Anglican)
5. 25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty 17C (Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Chinese folk religion)
6. 20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C ( Confucianism, Buddhism and Chinese folk religion vs. a form of Christianity)
7. 20 million Joseph Stalin 20C (Communism)
8. 19 million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C (Islam)
9. 17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C
10. 16 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C (Christianity)
11. 15 million First World War 20C (Christians vs. Christians)
12. 15 million Conquest of the Americas 15C-19C (Christians vs. Pagans)
13. 13 million Muslim Conquest of India 11C-18C
14. 10 million An Lushan Revolt 8C
15. 10 million Xin Dynasty 1C
16. 9 million Russian Civil War 20C (Christians vs Communists)
17. 8 million Fall of Rome 5C (Pagans vs. Christians)
18. 8 million Congo Free State 19C-20C (Christians)
19. 7½ million Thirty Years War 17C (Christians vs Christians)
20. 7½ million Fall of the Yuan Dynasty 14C
What we do know: (from the fields of astrophysics, biology, biochemistry, archeology, nuclear physics, geology and the history of religion)
1. The Sun will burn out in 3-5 billion years so we have a time frame.
2. Asteroids continue to circle us in the nearby asteroid belt.
3. One wayward rock and it is all over in a blast of permanent winter.
4. There are enough nuclear weapons to do the same job.
5. Most contemporary NT exegetes do not believe in the Second Coming so apparently there is no concern about JC coming back on an asteroid or cloud of raptors/rapture.
6. All stars will eventually extinguish as there is a limit to the amount of hydrogen in the universe. When this happens (100 trillion years?), the universe will go dark. If it does not collapse and recycle, the universe will end.
7. Super, dormant volcanoes off the coast of Africa and under Yellowstone Park could explode cataclysmically at any time ending life on Earth.
8. Many of us are part Neanderthal and/or Denisovan. (added details are available)
Bottom line: our apocalypse will start between now and 3-5 billion CE. The universe apocalypse, 100 trillion years?
"Bottom line: One of God's greatest gifts to us is that of the Future."
I think your taking the short view. I assume you know at some point life on this planet will end when the sun burns itself out.
Before that happens, man's best bet for survival will be to leave the planet. You should be putting your faith in science.
That is Schillebeeckx's god giving you the gift of Future. My take:
The Apostles'/Agnostics’ Creed 2013: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)
Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
Jerusalem.
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
Amen
(references used are available upon request)
hindu atheist , ignorant self centered have no clue, how truth absolute GOD works, not himself with a shovel in HIS hand, but he triggers foundation of spirit of human, with in truth of life to act to help. HE is very much involved through his human, HIS LOVE, human to help needy.
Ya'll make me sick. This tornado is not the platform for your stupid Christian/Atheist battles. Why don't you all shut up and go donate some blood, food, clothing and whatever else is needed in OK. You bunch of selfish, self serving, insensitive people.
Why don't you do the same. Why are you here wasting time. Take your "pure" AZZ to OKLAHOMA and be useful to someone.
Well Polly, the Belief Blog is a forum to discuss religion. So I guess you would be arguing in the wrong blog.
Some have a misconception as to why natural disasters occur, at times blaming God for such (Prov 19:3; James 1:13), though man has a hand in it, such as climate change due to the amount of carbon building up and being absorbed by the oceans.
Mr Wilbur Dugger's comment that ' God is ruling the world ', is incorrect, though God is always in full control, seeing to it that his everlasting purpose to "gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth" is fulfilled.(Eph 1:9, 10) At Revelation 12:9, it identifies that Satan the Devil, not God, is in control of the "world", those alienated from our Creator, Jehovah God.(see also John 14:30, Luke 4:5, 6, and 2 Cor 4:4)
God is not the cause of natural disasters nor will prayer to him prevent these from happening. For example, an earthwide famine took place during the time of Roman Emperor Claudius (reigned from 41-54 C.E.) and in which the prophet Agabus was able to foretell it in advance by means of God's spirit.(Acts 11:27, 28) Was this caused by Jehovah God ? No. Nor would prayer have stopped it. Rather, the brothers sent a "relief ministration" to deal with the famine.(Acts 11:29)
In these "last days", Jesus said that great troubles would plague mankind, even noting "great earthquakes" as happening as well as "pestilences" and "food shortages" (Luke 21:11) among many other features that would clearly identify the time period we are living in.(Matt 24:4-14)
These are not caused by God but are events that are either man-made or naturally occurring. However, prayer and assistance in behalf of those who are "harm's way", especially those who are loyally serving Jehovah God, is noted at Galatians 6:10.
For all you people that do not believe that there is a God, You know something? I'd rather live my life believing that there is a God, and die only to find out later that there isn't, than to to live my life as if there is not a God, only to find out later that there is.
debuged1, Zeus is gonna whup your sorry ass and send ten lightning bolts at you if you don't google "Pascal's Wager" right away and learn about why your stance is so totally fscking stupid.
I'm shaking in my boots in pure terror.
Joe's got a very good point, Bugboy. Maybe you're backing the wrong horse – ever think of that? Maybe it's Vishnu, or Allah, or Ra? Maybe it's a god who hate believers, but loves people who use their intellect and reason/ Maybe he sends believers to hell? There are an infinite number of possibilities about what happens after death.
If I don't believe, I wont see him when I die. I'll give you mt theory. We all are going to heaven. I'll prove it to you. George W. Bush killed innocent Iraqis that had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Injured tens of thousand more. Bush led 5,000 soldiers to their death and caused over 30,000 injuries (including one on this blog) Christians will tell you he is going to heaven. So if Bush is going to heaven with all that blood on his hands, I know I'm going to heaven. PERIOD.
Why? Because you afraid to be wrong and go to hell? Because you find it depressing to see that you live your lkife and poof that is it?
I would rather live my life as a good person and then see what happens. But I won't waste time chasing a myth that makes little sense and has zero tangible proof of being true.
More posts from butthurt xtians over atheists being more vocal? Seems to be on the rise.
Are you a Muslim from Indonesia??
Nope.
Are you a realist from da Bronx?
ScienceNeedsNoMagic
when mankind or human being act like there is no other power other than his. then that is when the calamity comes. if there were Justice in US and spread peace to the world instead of making disaster this whole mess would not happen
You give soldiers a bad name. Why don't you change your ID to "crotch stain"
Ken Margo
you sound like you are so ignorant. keep on making your useless comments
This proves what I've thought all along. You don't read what you type do you?
Ken Margo's comments seem generally completely reasonable. soldier's, on the other hand, are far from that and don't make any sense.
"Psa 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?"
"Isa 37:28 But I know thy abode, and thy going out, and thy coming in, and thy rage against me."
People fail to understand Ricky.
Is it his accent?
US American
I was not talking Iran or Iranians I was talking about US versus the rest of the world. when I am saying
America kills innocent people almost everyday. there is no implying to it. so the dire situation or the disaster is what US caused whether you deny or not. you destroy others then you get demolish simply as that. the US government Represent its people. if you are not blind you can see the reality and why tornadoes
Every country kills innocent people.
Tornadoes are not caused by it.
What are you a soldier of? Confusion?
To blind to see the point are you?
Blame the US government all you want, I know they do unsavory things (just like every other country). But to blame innocent people who have no control over the actions of others is just dumb, claiming a tornado as revenge is nothing less than absurd ignorance.
@soldier...............I hope you aren't active. I'd feel sorry for anyone in a fox hole with you.
sam, US America
by saying every country kills innocent people that doesn't fit in this situation. here we are talking over thousands die under US government. those of you who came up with science it get nothing to do with this and is not relevant
@soldier................ Muslims kill more Muslims than anybody. Look ay Syria. Does the US have any thing to do with that? Iran, Saudi Arabia and many more Arab countries treat their people like sh'it. Is that OK by you?
ken margo
you dont understand that part too. US created so-called Al-Qaeda which used the name Islam. so how you want to tell me something that you don't know anything about it. I suggest you search the truth
Soldier has taken way too many IED's to the head.
@ Ken – IEDs or LSDs?
ken margo I dont see where you heading with the IED thing. but you better know who is who
What are you talking about? The US govt over many years has killed people (just like virtually every other govt) The US is far from perfect we all know that. The US is not that important that mother nature "chooses" to punish us for our sins. If the country is in the cross hairs of disasters then why don't you leave the US and save yourself?
@soldier.......If you don't know where I'm going with the "IED's" you must not be a soldier or you were more injured than you realize.
Maybe science is the means to “How” instead of the means to “Why”. In my humble opinion, thanking science for all creation is about the same as thanking a nail gun and a pile of wood for building a house.
Maybe why questions are meaningless and how questions are the ones that count.
Who thanks "science" FOR creation? Maybe thanking science for "understanding" creation would be more appropriate.
But praising God(s) while burying your child and cleaning up the remains of your house is like .. um .. ridiculous.
Great information! I just "liked" Foundation Beyond Belief on Facebook and donated a few dollars. This was helpful.
I thought about getting my wife a birthday gift but instead told her .. it's the thought that counts anyway, right? She didn't buy that & you shouldn't either.
I think I'll pray for a cure for cancer, and tornado prevention.
Secular .. That ought to do the trick!
well usa has ruined people's life around the world so this is payback. they kill people every corner of the world and they expect to live peacefully. what insane. the tragedy is what you guys as american caused. compare what usa is doing outside the country or other world and what is going on inside the country like Oklahoma. get your mindset right and stop killing innocent people around the world.
That's like saying all Iranians behead innocent Americans .. is that true? Of course not, but your logic implies it should be.
Soldier: Last time I chacked, tornadoes were caused by heat from the sun, the geography of Southern and Mid-Amercia, the spinning earth and convection currents. So how would you explain the fact that tornadoes have occurred in "US" since way before the European settlers ever set foot there?
Now I'm not going to argue your point about failed US foreign policy for many years. But to suggest this is some sort of karma is funny at least. What does that say about typhoons and hurricanes all over the globe? Volcanoes? Asteroids? Earthquakes? Plagues? Droughts? Floods? Seems like the whole planet is paying for something. Maybe we are paying the price for living on a geologically unstable, sun drenched, water covered, life covered planet in an actively evolving solar system. What did we do to deserve this?
You obviously aren't a very bright soldier.
ken marge
you can say that because you don't want to face the reality
@soldier..................."I don't want to face reality" You've got to be kidding! Science Needs No Magic puts your theory to shame.
This is a devastating matter. Lives have been lost. Everyone pray for the families that lost homes and loved one. Our school is going to do something to help the victims.