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Prosecutor: Parents' belief in faith healing led to infant's death
May 24th, 2013
05:22 PM ET

Prosecutor: Parents' belief in faith healing led to infant's death

By Sarah Hoye, CNN
[twitter-follow screen_name='SarahHoyeCNN']

Philadelphia (CNN)–When Brandon Schaible got a rash, his parents prayed.

When the 7-month-old became irritable with diarrhea and lost his appetite, his parents, Catherine and Herbert Schaible, prayed again.

When Brandon had trouble breathing and gasped for air, his parents called a pastor - this, in spite of the fact that a judge had ordered them to call a doctor.

Brandon Schaible died on April 18 from bacterial pneumonia, dehydration and strep, according to the district attorney’s office – all treatable with antibiotics.

On Wednesday his parents were charged with third-degree murder.

The Schaibles are lifelong members of the First Century Gospel Church in Philadelphia, one of several religious groups in the U.S. that relies on faith, and eschews most medical care.

Founded in 1925, the First Century Gospel Church is an offshoot of Faith Tabernacle Congregation, also in Philadelphia. Both churches believe that God - and God alone - heals the sick.

“Herbert’s a father like anyone else. He’s hurt and he’s mourning the death of his son,” said Bobby Hoof, Herbert Schaible’s attorney. “He’s not snubbing his nose at the court. He’s incarcerated because of his faith.”

Philadelphia District Attorney Seth Williams says the Schaibles’ failure to seek medical attention resulted in the death of their son.

“Instead of caring and nurturing him,” Williams said, “they ultimately caused his death by praying over his body instead of taking him to the doctor.”

The Schaibles are also charged with involuntary manslaughter, conspiracy and endangering the welfare of a child. In April, the couple admitted to police that their son had exhibited symptoms for several days before he died.

On Friday, Court of Common Pleas Judge Benjamin Lerner ordered the Schaibles held without bail out of fear they were a flight risk.

“When this happened the first time around, the Schaibles had every reason to believe that, because of their faith, they had done nothing wrong,” Lerner said. “I know they’re not ‘sophisticated criminals’ … but the circumstances have changed.”

The Schaibles are already on probation for the 2009 death of another son, Kent, who died from bacterial pneumonia. A jury convicted the couple of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced them to 10 years probation.

Lerner said he was concerned that pastors and members in “churches like the Schaibles” would harbor them.

In a media interview last month, Pastor Nelson Clark of the First Century Gospel Church, said the Brandon and Ken Schaible died because of their parents’ “spiritual lack.”

Mythri Jayaraman, Catherine Schaible's attorney, called her a "completely devoted mother."

“The charges suggest a level of callousness that doesn’t fit who Catherine is,” Jayaraman said.

In addition to Pennsylvania, faith healing deaths have been prosecuted in Michigan, Indiana and Massachusetts.

According to Children's Healthcare Is a Legal Duty (CHILD), a nonprofit child advocacy group, at least 30 children have died since 1971 in Pennsylvania as a result of a parent's refusal to seek medical treatment because of their belief in faith healing.

Among the 30 are six children who died in 1991 from a measles outbreak in Philadelphia, all whom were born into families that belonged to either First Century Gospel Church or Faith Tabernacle.

“It’s a terrible conflict for these parents. They love their children and can see their child suffering,” said Rita Swan, president of CHILD. “If the laws were clearer, many of these parents would be relived of the pressure. As for the Schaibles, they are remarkably stubborn and extreme.”

Swan began advocating for the removal of religious exemptions from immunizations and parental legal requirements after her son Matthew died in 1977 from bacterial meningitis. She and her husband had relied on Christian Science practitioners to heal him.

“The poor child couldn’t lift an arm,” Swan said. “We prayed, we went to the practitioner. We trusted them.”

For members of faith-healing sects, it is common to believe that sickness is a result of unresolved sin or lack of faith, said Anthea Butler, a professor of religious studies at the University of Pennsylvania.

Faith-healing sects often interpret the Bible literally, citing, for example, Psalm 103: “Bless the Lord, O my soul … Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases.”

First Century Gospel Church’s website reinforces that theme, citing the New Testament’s Book of Acts, “By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus' name, and the faith that comes through him that has completely healed him, as you can all see.”

Other religious groups believe that God can heal the sick, and many believers pray to be delivered from illness. The difference is that they, unlike the Schaibles, often seek medical attention in addition to prayer, Butler said.

First Assistant District Attorney Edward McCann says the Schaibles’ actions, not beliefs, are the problem.

“How many kids have to die before it becomes an extreme indifference to the value of human life?” McCann asked. “They killed one child already.”

If convicted of third-degree murder in Brandon’s death, the Schaibles could face a maximum sentence of 50 years in prison, Lerner said. They also face an additional 7 to 14 years if a judge decides to revoke their probation in Kent’s death.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christian Science • Christianity • Crime • Culture & Science • Faith & Health

soundoff (2,002 Responses)
  1. I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

    "As Science moves these dates of viability outside of the womb back, closer to conception, will pro-choice supporters also move back their personal opinion of a fetus and a embryo?

    Interestingly Science has made advances to eliminate one or the other from procreation.

    Besides in-vitro fertilzation, how exactly. The Kamino cloners with their artificial placentas and Huxley's Bokanovsky's process are still science fiction you know. How is an (unfrozen) embryo viable outside the womb?

    Even with the wonders of the neo-natal ICU, miscarried fetuses before half-term are not viable. At 23-25 weeks of gestation the aggregate survival rate is 50%. This drops to 37% when <500g.

    May 28, 2013 at 8:59 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Ooops, posted in the wrong place – reposted below.

      May 28, 2013 at 9:00 pm |
  2. Anon

    This is where that antiquated book of desert myths should belong.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OgAXbyzP5g

    May 28, 2013 at 8:04 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Not recommended. It splashes back at you when you piss on it.

      May 28, 2013 at 8:07 pm |
    • Happy Atheist

      There is no need for this kind of imagery. This is nothing but insulting and meant to get people angry. This does not represent the feelings of most non-religious persons but promotes an extreme ideology that is not atheistic or non-theistic. Don't worry, be happy now.

      May 28, 2013 at 8:51 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Thank you AH..it's nice to see some people on here has some common sense and decency.

      May 28, 2013 at 9:00 pm |
    • Dippy

      It's HA, not AH. And it's have, not has.

      May 28, 2013 at 10:16 pm |
    • Athy

      That's a waste of good toilet paper. And it's real convenient, too. You just tear it out one page at a time as you need it.

      May 28, 2013 at 10:49 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Thank you Dippy...I don't know what we would ever do without the grammar gestapo on here.
      Btw, did you agree with HA's comment?

      May 29, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
  3. Science

    Chad/creationists where was bible.............250 million years ago

    http://www.businessinsider.com/chris-hadfield-himalaya-satellite-photo-2013-5?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Science%20Select&utm_campaign=1-SCIENCE_SELECT_NEW&utm_content=emailshare

    May 28, 2013 at 7:41 pm |
    • Science

      Oops

      Rock Where India Crashed Into Asia And Pushed Up The Himalayas [PHOTO]

      Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/chris-hadfield-himalaya-satellite-photo-2013-5#ixzz2UdQgGr1G

      May 28, 2013 at 8:08 pm |
  4. Bootyfunk

    funny, i never see atheist parents accused of refusing medical care for their children...
    or letting children dance with rattle snakes...
    or swindling money out of fellow atheists on TV...
    or telling people g.ays deserve to be tortured for all eternity...
    or tell women they are second class citizens under the authority of men...
    or dramatically raise the HIV rate in poor countries by telling people there not to wear condoms...
    or trying to censor art, media, music, movies, print etc....
    or making something as natural as s.ex/m.asturbation into the blackest of sins...
    or fighting science, education and knowledge as if they were the direst of foes...
    and the list could go on and on
    (please feel free to add)

    but blind faith is a force for good?

    May 28, 2013 at 7:15 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      Add starting a war in IRAQ.

      May 28, 2013 at 7:21 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      The list could go on and on but it would still only deal with a minority on the Christian side. Are you declaring that every Christian parent does what you listed?

      May 28, 2013 at 7:46 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Do you know of ANY atheists who engage in these behaviors?

      May 28, 2013 at 7:48 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Heck, I am trying to think of any Christians I know who do such. Especially, 1. , 4, 5, 6, and 8.

      or trying to censor art, media, music, movies, print etc....

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22678149

      Pressure groups have warned British retailers they could face legal action if they display magazines showing na'ked and near-na'ked images on their covers.

      Object and UK Feminista say they believe staff and customers faced with the magazines are being subjected to what amounts to se'xual discrimination or harassment.

      UK Feminista's Kat Banyard said the campaign is calling for shops to follow the existing legislation, because the magazines "potentially breach" equality laws. Source BBC.

      Seems that Feminist want censorship of things as well. I does that count 🙂

      May 28, 2013 at 7:56 pm |
    • The wrath of Khan

      Atheists do engage in cencorship of religious materials. And also, Tom, may I ad that your question does not answer Mark's question, infact it's unrelated.

      May 28, 2013 at 7:57 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Since when are magazine covers displaying boobs "art?"

      May 28, 2013 at 8:07 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Wrath of Whatever, maybe that's because, as usual, the Piddler lacks the reading comprehension of a 3rd grader. Nowhere did the OP say that all Christians engage in such acts.

      Maybe you should bone up on your reading as well, honey.

      May 28, 2013 at 8:10 pm |
    • Khloe

      Oh, do pardon. That list should have stated "In the US..." since the couple in question lives here. And they are being charged under US law.

      And, Khan, Tom's question is valid since it repeats the query in Bootyfunk's initial post.

      May 28, 2013 at 8:55 pm |
    • Khloe

      And why the assumptions on MfMR's part? I notice this is a trait he displays often. ("Are you declaring...")
      Chad is guilty of this, as well. It appears they both medaled in conclusion jumping.

      May 28, 2013 at 9:03 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Since when are magazine covers displaying boobs "art?"

      So when the same reply is given to Pat Robetson and the 700 Club types and they give the EXACT SAME RESPONCE, I ask who are you to declare what and what is not art? TomTom, thank you for proving one of my main points that you folks on the extremes, be they Atheist or Faithful all speak the exact same languge.

      And why the assumptions on MfMR's part? I notice this is a trait he displays often.

      Khloe, that is not an assumption but just forcing the OP into a corner. See, he is listing what some Faithful do but it is no way the norm. I know that ones such as him or her, wishes that there were not Gay Christians or Top Universities which are based on Faith. Khan does have a point that Atheist are some of the major advocates of censorship in recent history.

      May 28, 2013 at 9:32 pm |
    • The real Tom

      It's RESPONSE, Piddles.
      You are just unbelievable, Piddles. If you think a Maxim cover is "art", you're even more under-educated than I imagined. Of course, if you can't figure out when and when not to capitalize words, it's going to be pretty clear to anyone reading here that you're barely literate. Good luck getting that degree, dingus.

      May 28, 2013 at 9:39 pm |
    • Colin

      MFMR, you said, "wishes that there were not Gay Christians or Top Universities which are based on Faith." There are no "top universities" based on faith. There are well reputed universities that have divinity schools, in the same way that national newspapers have an astrology column, and there are well reputed universities that are founded or funded by religious organizations, but there is no such thing as a university level course of any kind anywhere in the Wolrd that is based on faith-any faith.

      Feel free to prove me wrong.

      May 28, 2013 at 9:40 pm |
    • The real Tom

      "And why the assumptions on MfMR's part?" Because he's stupid. He's so dumb he actually thinks that the words 'top universities' should be capitalized.

      May 28, 2013 at 9:41 pm |
    • The real Tom

      @Colin, I am guessing that Piddles is enrolled in some Bible college and wants desperately to believe it's a "Top University."

      Sad.

      May 28, 2013 at 9:47 pm |
    • Khloe

      MfMR, OP did no such thing. He didn't mention Christianity at all. You leapt to that conclusion because...why, exactly? All you did was confirm the notion that everything is fine and dandy if done in the name of Christianity. If *I've* now leapt to a conclusion, do illustrate how.

      By the way, you've yet to denounce these parent's repugnant and CRIMINAL behavior. I condemn it completely.
      Do you?

      Please, also, give a citation for atheists censoring religious materials. I've yet to come across this newsworthy event. I am sure it would have been covered *somewhere*.

      May 28, 2013 at 10:07 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Piddles isn't too good with reading comprehension, as you note. He loves to think he's an intellectual who can read between the lines, when in fact he simply makes up lines to suit his agenda.

      May 28, 2013 at 10:11 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      If you think a Maxim cover is "art", you're even more under-educated than I imagined.

      It is not for you or I to decide what is or what is not art. This was the argument given to the Evangelist when they took on the likes of Larry Flint. I do not feel that it is art but that is my opinion. In some ways, I agree with you TomTom, but who is to say that we are right when both you and me declare that something is not art? I do not feel that adult magazines should be censored but managed to keep out of the hands of children.

      When you feel that you, TomTom, are the ultimate judge of what is or is not art then you are no different from any 700 Club broadcast. Closed minded people like you and them, just think too much alike.

      Also TomTom... you are double posting again. What's wrong m'am, can't get your thoughts straight in your head for a single post? Time to step away from the keyboard and get some sleep.

      By the way, you've yet to denounce these parent's repugnant and CRIMINAL behavior. I condemn it completely. Do you?

      I understand why they did it. I absolutely would not have done what they did because my belief is different than theirs. Can I completely see them going to jail for it, goodness yes but a person should not have a problem going to jail for their Faith choices. So, I condemn it just like you in that it goes against my beliefs.

      Please, also, give a citation for atheists censoring religious materials

      Well, I would not expect you to agree with the examples of free speech of prayers given by Valedictorians as an example.

      “It should not be illegal for students to say a prayer at a graduation ceremony,” said Abbott in a statement after the appeals court’s decision. “Now, the federal court of appeals agrees.”

      "Liberty Inst'itute filed a lawsuit on behalf of Medina Valley High School valedictorian Hildenbrand, who said she wanted to thank God and pray for all those in the community affected by the case in her speech.

      “After all that I’ve been taught about the freedoms of speech, expression and religion in our country, I am disappointed that my liberties are being infringed upon by this court’s ruling to censor my speech,” Hildenbrand had said during a press conference Thursday in front of the Alamo in San Antonio. "

      I will count restricting free speech as censorship.

      Piddles isn't too good with reading comprehension, as you note. He loves to think he's an intellectual who can read between the lines, when in fact he simply makes up lines to suit his agenda.

      As you said TomTom... what's wrong, did I hit a nerve? 🙂

      May 29, 2013 at 12:52 am |
    • The real Tom

      DId you hit a nerve? Hardly. You couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with that puny shaft.

      May 29, 2013 at 5:09 am |
  5. Dr. Repentant

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8szDctI9lXM&feature=player_detailpage
    .

    May 28, 2013 at 7:07 pm |
  6. Dyslexic doG

    Yesterday morning there was a knock at my door. A pleasant and enthusiastic young couple were there.

    John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

    Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."

    Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?"

    John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the guts out of you."

    Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

    John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass."

    Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

    Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"

    Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

    John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."

    Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"

    Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."

    Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?"

    John: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."

    Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"

    Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the guts out of you."

    Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"

    John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

    Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"

    John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

    Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

    Mary: "Well, maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."

    Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"

    John: "In this town, Hank is the same as good luck. All good things are attributed to Hank'"

    Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

    John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the guts out of you."

    Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."

    Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

    Me: "Then how do you kiss His ass?"

    John: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."

    Me: "Who's Karl?"

    Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

    Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"

    John: "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."

    From the Desk of Karl
    1. Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
    2. Use alcohol in moderation.
    3. Kick the guts out of people who aren't like you.
    4. Eat right.
    5. Hank dictated this list Himself.
    6. The moon is made of green cheese.
    7. Everything Hank says is right.
    8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
    9. Don't use alcohol.
    10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
    11. Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the guts out of you.

    Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."

    Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."

    Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

    John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."

    Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

    Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."

    Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the guts out of people just because they're different?"

    Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

    Me: "How do you figure that?"

    Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

    Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

    John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."

    Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

    John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

    Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

    Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

    Me: "I'm not really an expert, but not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it plausible that it might be made of cheese."

    John: "Ha! You just admitted that scientists don’t know everything, but we know Hank is always right!"

    Me: "We do?"

    Mary: "Of course we do, Item 7 says so."

    Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"

    John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

    Me: "But...oh, never mind.

    from Jhuger.com

    May 28, 2013 at 7:04 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      hahaha. exactly how the christianity came to be.

      May 28, 2013 at 7:22 pm |
    • Athy

      Oh my Hank! That was funny, doG (or should it be knaH). Thanks for the laugh.

      May 28, 2013 at 8:09 pm |
  7. Dyslexic doG

    At least now the courts have recognized that prayer does absolutely NOTHING!

    what a crock this religion is!

    May 28, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      The problem is that we need more than the courts to recognized this.

      May 28, 2013 at 7:13 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Actually the courts did not do anything in regards to prayer. That's just your own imagination working overtime.
      They did tell the parents to take their child to see a doctor but the vast majority of the religious would have said that too.

      May 28, 2013 at 9:09 pm |
  8. Its ok to see a doc

    If your child has pneumonia, see a doc, there is a 75% chance of survival.

    May 28, 2013 at 6:59 pm |
    • Is it ok to see a doc

      When you want to abort the unborn, is it ok to see a doc???

      May 28, 2013 at 7:00 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      If your child is sick, see a doc. Period.

      May 28, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      You need a different doctor for that. I'm pro choice. Abortions are cheaper than children. Way cheaper.

      May 28, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
    • Dr. Repentent

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8szDctI9lXM&feature=player_detailpage

      May 28, 2013 at 7:05 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      Knowing what we now know, wouldn't it have made more sense for them to have an abortion?

      May 28, 2013 at 7:10 pm |
    • The real Tom

      When was the last time you were pregnant, Loopy Limp? When did you raise a child? How many unwanted children have you adopted?

      May 28, 2013 at 7:14 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      @lion...........forget about your tool. Answer the questions. How many unwanted kids have you adopted? Are you willing to raise taxes as needed to support these children? Show us the money!

      May 28, 2013 at 8:27 pm |
    • Khloe

      Why is it that every time someone says something about the children neglected to the point of death, somebody thinks that bringing up abortion is making some sort of point?
      THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT ISSUES. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
      And, it's comparing apples to oranges, and not as clever or witty as they think it is.
      Gotta love the people who are too cowardly to denounce the behavior of these parents, merely because the parents were Christian. Phony to the max.

      May 28, 2013 at 9:19 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Loopy Limpdick: "The "off-sides" rules seem implacably one sided and seditiously vamped! Does my LimpDick offered up as an evening meal seem to bring a wishbone for the occasional snack frenzy?"

      I guess everyone can assume that the Limp one has never been pregnant, never fathered or raised a child and has adopted not a single unwanted kid.

      Thanks for playing, as always, Limp.

      May 28, 2013 at 9:55 pm |
  9. Logan

    In a media interview last month, Pastor Nelson Clark of the First Century Gospel Church, said that Brandon and Ken Schaible died because of their parents’ “spiritual lack.”

    Sounds to me like the book of Job when Job's friends accused him of sinning because of his afflictions.

    As tragic as this story is it reminds me of an old Church joke:

    There was once a man stranded on his house during a flood. Knowing his predicimate and soon his demise he began to pray to God asking "Lord please save me from this flood".

    A few minutes later a boat comes by and the people in it say get in before your house is overcome by the waters. The man replies "no thanks the Lord will save me". And so he prays again "Lord save me from this flood".

    As the flood rises farther up the house a coast guard ship comes near and the crew says get in before the flood overcomes the house. But the man replies "no thanks the Lord will save me". He then prays again "Lord save me from this flood".

    Finally when the flood waters reach the top of the house a helicopter comes by lowering a lift and the crew says get in before the flood overcomes the house. But the man replies "no thanks the Lord will save me". The helicopter leaves and the man drowns.

    When he meets God in heaven the man says "Oh Lord why did you not save me." And God replies "What are you talking about you idiot! I sent you a boat, a ship, and a helicopter!"

    My point to this is that God will provide us the resourses it is up to us to use them.

    May 28, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      Doesn't god provide you with a brain also? If so, I guess it's up to you to use the resources provided.

      May 28, 2013 at 6:24 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      you brought up Job...

      Job's family are the only people Satan killed, according to the bible. and it was with God's permission that Satan crushed them beneath their roof.

      God drowned millions in his great flood.

      so the total is:

      Satan = 10 killed (with God's permission)
      God = millions killed

      who is the bigger monster?

      May 28, 2013 at 7:04 pm |
  10. Bootyfunk

    this is a (sadly) perfect example of how religion can get otherwise sane people to do insane things. they feed and cloth the child, provide shelter, toys, and more - but no medical care, because their church said it's against God's wishes. how dangerous does a cult have to be before it's broken up for the welfare of the children?

    May 28, 2013 at 6:01 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      Are the parents mad at the church? NOPE Are people still going to the church? YES. Shows stupidity has no bounds.

      May 28, 2013 at 6:23 pm |
  11. sam yaza

    ehh.... natural selection.

    May 28, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
  12. Dyslexic doG

    James 5:14-16
    Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

    what a crock!

    May 28, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
    • Wait for it

      The xtians will come up with excuses so wait for it.....

      May 28, 2013 at 5:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      lionlylamb, pick up a towel and a bar of Irish Spring at the Rescue Mission and head on down to the Y. They have showers there.

      May 28, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
  13. Dyslexic doG

    John 14:13-14
    Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it

    what a crock!

    May 28, 2013 at 5:33 pm |
  14. Dyslexic doG

    Matthew 21:22
    And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”

    what a crock!

    May 28, 2013 at 5:33 pm |
  15. Catechism

    Bill...."I thought the idea in America was that people get to make their own choices" but that is exactly what you want to take away from people that do not believe as you do. Read the crap you post, you do not have the right to dictate to anyone, get it.

    May 28, 2013 at 5:30 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      OK, I've got to go for a while now but I'll be back to check on you. Make sure you take the little pills they bring you and eat all your dinner. You'll be ok, I promise.

      May 28, 2013 at 5:45 pm |
    • Akira

      I said this before: the parent's beliefs do not trump medical treatment for sick children.

      May 28, 2013 at 5:51 pm |
    • Akira

      Bill, if you want to withhold basic medical care for you and yours in a FY to the states and governments, that's between you and the lawyer who will be representing you when an innocent child, who cannot seek help on hizzer own, dies.
      I'm sure the admiration for your strong stance will be underwhelming as well.
      Go, you rebel, you.

      May 28, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      There are those who want to make this a state issue/rights/decision nonsense. If anyone is sick (kid or adult) go to the doctor. Get help. PERIOD. For people who are pro life how in the HE,LL can you agree with these people. Please don't compare this to an abortion. Fetus's are NOT people.

      May 28, 2013 at 6:40 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Bill, like most fundies, doesn't seem to grasp the concept that the law recognizes the rights of children to be given adequate care. He is also apparently incapable of recognizing the difference between a fetus or embryo that is less than 12 weeks old and a 7-month-old baby. Or an adult female. Nobody is preventing YOU from choosing what medical procedures you'll have Dill Doe. You don't have the right to tell others what ones they will have, and that includes your children.

      Why are fundies so willfully stupid.

      May 28, 2013 at 7:53 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      He is also apparently incapable of recognizing the difference between a fetus or embryo that is less than 12 weeks old and a 7-month-old baby.

      As Science moves these dates of viability outside of the womb back, closer to conception, will pro-choice supporters also move back their personal opinion of a fetus and a embryo?

      May 28, 2013 at 7:59 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Did you read what I posted about viability, Piddles?

      May 28, 2013 at 8:08 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      @Mark form the mad house.................................Soon they'll be against mas'turbation because semen can sing and dance outside the body. Heck why use women at all at this rate?

      May 28, 2013 at 8:13 pm |
    • The real Tom

      What I really wonder about idiots like the Piddler and Dill Doe is what they think banning all abortions will achieve. Do they really think that forcing women to carry a pregnancy to term is a good idea? That they're going to be able to do that if they limit the availability of abortion services? Do they really think banning abortion ever worked?

      If so, then they are morons. Oh, wait....we already knew that.

      May 28, 2013 at 8:13 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      @Tom...........You know these anti abortionist really don't care about the children. This is a way to control women. Their plan is simple. Keep 'em pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen.

      May 28, 2013 at 8:25 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Yes, every sperm is sacred. Breathing children, not so much. It's God's will, you see?

      May 28, 2013 at 8:28 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Heck why use women at all at this rate?

      Interestingly Science has made advances to eliminate one or the other from procreation. It is not me asking this question but within the Science field itself. This brings up a serious question for the pro-choice camp because the advancement of technology and science itself, is working severely against them.

      This is a way to control women. Their plan is simple. Keep 'em pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen.

      Heck, I am all for sterilizing every child at birth, male or female, then requiring a license to have the surgery to have the sterilization reversed. Once having the child both parents are re-sterilized 🙂

      This way no man or woman is trapped by a unwanted pregnancy.

      May 28, 2013 at 8:50 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Reposted:

      "As Science moves these dates of viability outside of the womb back, closer to conception, will pro-choice supporters also move back their personal opinion of a fetus and a embryo?

      Interestingly Science has made advances to eliminate one or the other from procreation.

      Besides in-vitro fertilzation, how exactly. The Kamino cloners with their artificial placentas and Huxley's Bokanovsky's process are still science fiction you know. How is an (unfrozen) embryo viable outside the womb?

      Even with the wonders of the neo-natal ICU, miscarried fetuses before half-term are not viable. At 23-25 weeks of gestation the aggregate survival rate is 50%. This drops to 37% when <500g.

      May 28, 2013 at 8:59 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      @Mark...........You need to get some sleep. You're delirious! If a baby born prematurely requires a miracle of medicine to survive, that is NOT viable. To me viability is to survive naturally without medicine. There's a reason pregnancy lasts 9 months. I science fiction doesn't count as fact based.

      As far as stabilization. Wouldn't birth control be easier? S3x ed in school. That's extreme. We already have enough tea baggers with their anti govt. stance. This would make them nuts.

      May 28, 2013 at 9:43 pm |
    • The real Tom

      "Heck, I am all for sterilizing every child at birth, male or female"

      Why do we start with you, Piddles? Go ahead, set an example.

      May 28, 2013 at 9:51 pm |
    • Jimmy G.

      @Mark, the black Republitard Klukker
      You want to sterilize everyone at birth? Sounds pretty extreme and dangerous. Sterilizing everyone at puberty would make more sense, and only then, if you could do so without messing up their glandular systems.
      I bet you think we should start sterilizing black people first, klukker, right?
      You hate black people. Your relatives are right about you. They probably know you best, right? You hatin pos...

      May 29, 2013 at 12:22 am |
    • Catechism

      Thanks for the advice Bill, I did just as you directed and got a good nights sleep. Did it ever occur to you that your guilt complex required you to also take a pill to live with yourself. That pill turned out to be the crutch of the RCC and the confessional and redemption that you swallowed hook line and sinker. Now despite your crimes you are holier than thou and feel compelled to pontificate to everyone else. Pompous, arrogant, born again busy body is what you are, why do you think anyone would be moved by your rants, such as the buts....
      I condemn child abuse and cover ups...BUT
      I condemn the parents actions....BUT
      Women are respected in the church...BUT
      The church is for the people not the hierachy...BUT

      May 29, 2013 at 6:56 am |
    • Catechism

      Bill update from Australia. May 27, 2013. "Cardinal Pell says he recently learned that former Ballarat Bishop Ronald Mulkearns had destroyed ducu.ments to hide cases of abuse and he admitted that in some cases members of the clergy were placed above the law." Story by Brigid Anderson, ABC.
      I know Bill you like to keep up to date on the news. Is that not your oft stated position that the RCC is placed above the law of the countries they practice in, church over state.

      May 29, 2013 at 8:12 am |
  16. Ken Margo

    If this doesn't prove that god doesn't exist, doesn't answer prayers, isn't watching what we're doing, nothing will. Just like Allah isn't getting involved in Syria and god letting 9/11 happen NOTHING will convince these wackos that they are wasting their time praying to someone/something that doesn't exist.

    May 28, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
    • George Karlson

      "If this doesn't prove that god doesn't exist, doesn't answer prayers, isn't watching what we're doing, nothing will."

      All that this proves is that the parents made a series of terrible decisions. Many people, religious or not, are appalled at their actions.

      May 28, 2013 at 5:40 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      George, It proves more than that – they relied upon god (i.e. prayed to god) to cure their sons. Tjhat never happened – same as people are not spared from natural disasters, same as the houses in Moore are still piles of rubble. No amount of praying stops disasters, stops people being killed, or replaces what is lost. Praying does not work.

      May 28, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
    • .

      Yet again LL demonstrates why they are the belief blog pseudo intellect, just laugh at their stupidity and move on.

      May 28, 2013 at 5:48 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      @George.............It isn't that they made a terrible decision, It's the REASON they made a terrible decision. How many people make decisions because they believe god is "watching" or will judge them accordingly.

      May 28, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
    • The real Tom

      "God lives upon our bodies insides and upon our body's atomic domains are where Godly buildings to so dwell. "

      And you have what evidence that this is so? Where on your body do you imagine a god is living? Maybe you're mistaking a louse for a god, LL. Time to get yourself hosed off.

      May 28, 2013 at 8:20 pm |
    • The real Tom

      "God lives upon our bodies insides and upon our body's atomic domains are where Godly buildings to so dwell. "

      And you have what evidence that this is so? Where on your body do you imagine a god is living? Maybe you're mistaking a louse for a god, LL. Time to get yourself ho sed off.

      May 28, 2013 at 8:21 pm |
    • The real Tom

      "God lives upon our bodies insides and upon our body's atomic domains are where Godly buildings to so dwell. "

      And you have what evidence that this is so? Where on or in your body do you imagine a god is living? Maybe you're mistaking a louse or a parasite for a god, LL. Time to get yourself h o sed off.

      May 28, 2013 at 8:21 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Tom,

      ""God lives upon our bodies insides and upon our body's atomic domains are where Godly buildings to so dwell. "

      I guess LL was watching the Star Wars marathon on Spike TV over the weekend and has decided God is midiclorians.

      May 28, 2013 at 8:26 pm |
    • The real Tom

      I doubt the git owns a working TV.

      May 28, 2013 at 10:06 pm |
    • The real Tom

      I doubt the g it owns a working TV.

      May 28, 2013 at 10:07 pm |
  17. Science

    Chomp on the foot print ...............Bigem foot from Texas ..............teach that.

    Discovery Channel Mega Beasts – Great American Predator

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority/

    Education trumps the red horn-y thingy............CE

    http://boostnation.boostup.org/

    Peace

    May 28, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
  18. AverageJoe76

    Let's play a game called, "I AM THY LORD GOD"........
    Ok, so..... I'm God, and I can see all paths. I know EVERYTHING (remember, EVERYTHING is EV-ER-E-THING.... nothing escapes me). I know the beginning and end of all things in the universe and beyond. But I told mortals they have 'free will'. And when I told them that, I snickered under my breath, BECAUSE...... I already know all of their paths. Beginning to end. A to Z. Birth to death. So honestly, there's ONLY the perception of free will. But since I know EVERYTHING, and designed EVERYTHING. There's technically no 'free will'. It's all MY will. I am the grand creator of everything. Do you really, really think I don't know if you'll worship me or not? Whether your heaven or hell-bound? (c'mon kids..... I AM THY LORD GOD..... kinda my main job to know ish like this...). So basically, I design you feeble mortals knowing where your going AND when. Take THAT 'free will'.

    May 28, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
  19. Knights Who Say...

    NARRATOR: The Tale of Sir Robin....
    So each of the knights went their separate ways. Sir Robin rode north,
    through the dark forest of Ewing, accompanied by his favorite minstrels.

    MINSTREL (singing):

    Bravely bold Sir Robin, rode forth from Camelot.
    He was not afraid to die, o Brave Sir Robin.
    He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways.
    Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Robin!

    He was not in the least bit scared to be mashed
    into a pulp,
    Or to have his eyes gouged out, and his elbows broken.
    To have his kneecaps split, and his body burned away,
    And his limbs all hacked and mangled, brave Sir Robin!

    His head smashed in and his heart cut out,
    And his liver removed and his bowels unplugged,
    And his nostrils ripped and his bottom burned off,
    And his penis–

    ROBIN: That's - that's, uh, that's enough music for now, lads.
    Looks like there's dirty work afoot.

    May 28, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
    • Akira

      Always in the mood for some Monty Python...thanks!

      May 28, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
  20. CommonSensed

    And, really, the "Christian Scientists" who advocated for the death of their child should also be held culpable.

    May 28, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
    • Kate Middleton's Shocking New Hairstyle Shows Us a Totally Different Side of Her

      =

      May 28, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.