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Prosecutor: Parents' belief in faith healing led to infant's death
May 24th, 2013
05:22 PM ET

Prosecutor: Parents' belief in faith healing led to infant's death

By Sarah Hoye, CNN
[twitter-follow screen_name='SarahHoyeCNN']

Philadelphia (CNN)–When Brandon Schaible got a rash, his parents prayed.

When the 7-month-old became irritable with diarrhea and lost his appetite, his parents, Catherine and Herbert Schaible, prayed again.

When Brandon had trouble breathing and gasped for air, his parents called a pastor - this, in spite of the fact that a judge had ordered them to call a doctor.

Brandon Schaible died on April 18 from bacterial pneumonia, dehydration and strep, according to the district attorney’s office – all treatable with antibiotics.

On Wednesday his parents were charged with third-degree murder.

The Schaibles are lifelong members of the First Century Gospel Church in Philadelphia, one of several religious groups in the U.S. that relies on faith, and eschews most medical care.

Founded in 1925, the First Century Gospel Church is an offshoot of Faith Tabernacle Congregation, also in Philadelphia. Both churches believe that God - and God alone - heals the sick.

“Herbert’s a father like anyone else. He’s hurt and he’s mourning the death of his son,” said Bobby Hoof, Herbert Schaible’s attorney. “He’s not snubbing his nose at the court. He’s incarcerated because of his faith.”

Philadelphia District Attorney Seth Williams says the Schaibles’ failure to seek medical attention resulted in the death of their son.

“Instead of caring and nurturing him,” Williams said, “they ultimately caused his death by praying over his body instead of taking him to the doctor.”

The Schaibles are also charged with involuntary manslaughter, conspiracy and endangering the welfare of a child. In April, the couple admitted to police that their son had exhibited symptoms for several days before he died.

On Friday, Court of Common Pleas Judge Benjamin Lerner ordered the Schaibles held without bail out of fear they were a flight risk.

“When this happened the first time around, the Schaibles had every reason to believe that, because of their faith, they had done nothing wrong,” Lerner said. “I know they’re not ‘sophisticated criminals’ … but the circumstances have changed.”

The Schaibles are already on probation for the 2009 death of another son, Kent, who died from bacterial pneumonia. A jury convicted the couple of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced them to 10 years probation.

Lerner said he was concerned that pastors and members in “churches like the Schaibles” would harbor them.

In a media interview last month, Pastor Nelson Clark of the First Century Gospel Church, said the Brandon and Ken Schaible died because of their parents’ “spiritual lack.”

Mythri Jayaraman, Catherine Schaible's attorney, called her a "completely devoted mother."

“The charges suggest a level of callousness that doesn’t fit who Catherine is,” Jayaraman said.

In addition to Pennsylvania, faith healing deaths have been prosecuted in Michigan, Indiana and Massachusetts.

According to Children's Healthcare Is a Legal Duty (CHILD), a nonprofit child advocacy group, at least 30 children have died since 1971 in Pennsylvania as a result of a parent's refusal to seek medical treatment because of their belief in faith healing.

Among the 30 are six children who died in 1991 from a measles outbreak in Philadelphia, all whom were born into families that belonged to either First Century Gospel Church or Faith Tabernacle.

“It’s a terrible conflict for these parents. They love their children and can see their child suffering,” said Rita Swan, president of CHILD. “If the laws were clearer, many of these parents would be relived of the pressure. As for the Schaibles, they are remarkably stubborn and extreme.”

Swan began advocating for the removal of religious exemptions from immunizations and parental legal requirements after her son Matthew died in 1977 from bacterial meningitis. She and her husband had relied on Christian Science practitioners to heal him.

“The poor child couldn’t lift an arm,” Swan said. “We prayed, we went to the practitioner. We trusted them.”

For members of faith-healing sects, it is common to believe that sickness is a result of unresolved sin or lack of faith, said Anthea Butler, a professor of religious studies at the University of Pennsylvania.

Faith-healing sects often interpret the Bible literally, citing, for example, Psalm 103: “Bless the Lord, O my soul … Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases.”

First Century Gospel Church’s website reinforces that theme, citing the New Testament’s Book of Acts, “By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus' name, and the faith that comes through him that has completely healed him, as you can all see.”

Other religious groups believe that God can heal the sick, and many believers pray to be delivered from illness. The difference is that they, unlike the Schaibles, often seek medical attention in addition to prayer, Butler said.

First Assistant District Attorney Edward McCann says the Schaibles’ actions, not beliefs, are the problem.

“How many kids have to die before it becomes an extreme indifference to the value of human life?” McCann asked. “They killed one child already.”

If convicted of third-degree murder in Brandon’s death, the Schaibles could face a maximum sentence of 50 years in prison, Lerner said. They also face an additional 7 to 14 years if a judge decides to revoke their probation in Kent’s death.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christian Science • Christianity • Crime • Culture & Science • Faith & Health

soundoff (2,002 Responses)
  1. Gee, I don't know

    I have done a thourogh analysis on this topic, the conclusion I came to is:

    a. Parents in article made a mistake in not getting treatment from a doctor when told to
    b. An OB-GYN in another baby death article pulled off the head of that baby
    c. Two other doctors in a third article said faith does work and should not be ignored.

    Math tells me that a+b=0, doctors can help, or kill a baby. Then there is c=2, two doctors saying faith is good and they agree people should pray to God.

    c is correct.

    May 27, 2013 at 12:20 am |
  2. Reality

    Only for the new members:

    Last time I checked, our judicial system casts many a stone to include execution when needed.

    And then there is this:

    John 8:7

    "When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

    And from Professor Gerd Ludemann, in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 416,

    "Anyone looking for the historical Jesus will not find him in the Gospel of John. "

    See also http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/john.html
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    May 26, 2013 at 11:30 pm |
  3. Gee, I don't know

    The article said faith can't be ignored, I agree.

    May 26, 2013 at 11:09 pm |
  4. Bostontola

    Pray for recovery rather than accepting medicine.

    Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime. Give a man religion, he dies of hunger praying for a fish.

    May 26, 2013 at 10:57 pm |
  5. Doc Vestibule

    Where does veganism condone killing?
    Ostensibly, both philosophies espouse extreme pacifism.
    Christ taught to do no harm even to those who would harm you.
    Veganism takes it a step further and asserts that we should do no harm to any feeling creature.
    And yet both doctrines are used as justification for negligent homicide.

    May 26, 2013 at 10:16 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Whoops!
      Seems I missed the whole "reply" thing...

      May 26, 2013 at 10:17 pm |
    • Austin

      You are completely wrong in your assertion...."And yet both doctrines are used as justification for negligent homicide."

      Maybe used and abused, but negligent homicide is ungodly. Again, when God flooded the earth it wasn't murder or homicide, it was putting people to sleep. It was a righteous judgment, and one to be proud of.

      May 26, 2013 at 10:37 pm |
    • oOo

      Austin, even though Doc's post was out of place, you still have the opportunity to stay with his subject. Now what the fvck does the flood have to do with veganism?

      May 26, 2013 at 10:42 pm |
    • Austin

      what i am saying,is that the prophets were ordained in war by God almighty. like a marriage is ordained. God has a covanant with marriage, government and church. if He commands a slaughter, this is not murder. It is an act of righteouss war.

      you can NOT, equate hitler, the crusades or the witch stakes, cant equate that knowing that the last prophet with direct revelation or scriptural authority was John. between John and Christs return, no was is ordained by God. this venture of war and killing is the vain affair of mankind. this is not to be considered christian by any mans what so ever. there is no justification to say that christianity condones killing for one, war secondly, and certainly not murder, or negligent ho.mocide.

      May 26, 2013 at 10:54 pm |
    • Queen

      I see. So nobody is supposed to use all of the religious atrocities committed in the name of God against religion, because it wasn't God who did the killing, it was man, is that it? But God killing everyone is not really killing, but some sort of weird, convoluted "mercy"?

      Baloney. If you choose to actually believe that killing by God is perfectly all right, fine. But I choose to think that any God who kills indiscriminately at a whim because He is displeased with the people HE FREAKING CREATED, and then commanding them not to do as he has, (thou shall not kill) as someone who is a hypocrite and not worthy of THE INTELLIGENT, THINKING PERSON'S worship. Grow up, Austin. Your rationalizations belong in the fifth century, along with your God.

      Bull. I will compare the Holocause, the Crusades, et all to your God and the Bible, because that is where they got THEIR rationalizations to do what they did. You deluded nitwit, it's EXACTLY the same, except to the ignorant who blindly think that God did no wrong...He DID, and still DOES. Grow the hell up already.

      May 26, 2013 at 11:18 pm |
    • Austin

      Queen, you believe your opinion carries authority compared to the patient, quiet, all powerful God and creator of your soul and life?

      Be proud if who God is. There has to be life. When it comes to truth, the lies will end. thank God.

      May 26, 2013 at 11:28 pm |
    • Queen

      I believe my word carries as much authority as yours does, Austin,and as such am free to state that I think you are unequivocally wrong. Nazis and the Crusades are a Christian construct, like it or not, boy. And I'll keep reminding people of that every time you spout the bs that drowning is just like falling asleep, asshat. What a moron. And yeah, MURDER IS MURDER, NO MATTER WHO IS DOING THE MURDERING. AND IF YOU THINK A PERSON SHOULD BE PROUD OF MURDER, YOU'RE A SICK JERK!

      May 27, 2013 at 12:07 am |
    • redzoa

      "Again, when God flooded the earth it wasn't murder or homicide, it was putting people to sleep. It was a righteous judgment, and one to be proud of."

      One could safely presume that among those the god of the bible "put to sleep" were children and infants. If there were any doubt, one could to look to 1 Sam 15:3 to see the god of the bible had no issue with the slaughter of children and infants. Sometimes, I actually hope there is a god so that these heartless, unsympathetic apologists will be called to answer for their pride in such atrocities.

      May 27, 2013 at 12:17 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Austin
      You're missing my point – I'm not asserting that negligent homicide is a Christian tenet.
      I'm saying that even the most pacifistic of beliefs systems can be used as justification for atrocious behaviour.
      You cannot deny that people have rationalized all manner of evil using scripture, from misogyny to slavery to genocide.
      The original post simply drew a parallel between two sets of parents whose steadfast adherence to their misguided beliefs led to the death of their children.
      You can scream until you're blue in the face that Christianity is nothing like what these people believe it to be, but the fact is that their unshakeable faith in their interpretation of the Bible led them to deny their children basic medical care.

      The great trouble with religion – any religion – is that a religionist, having accepted certain propositions by faith, cannot thereafter judge those propositions by evidence.

      May 27, 2013 at 8:16 am |
  6. Gee, I don't know

    Dr. Harold Koenig leads Duke University's Center for Spirituality, Theology and Health.

    "There are hundreds and hundreds of studies — scientific studies — that show that religious people are healthier," says Koenig.

    Even Dr. Friedman — who treated Delbridge's cancer — says faith can't be ignored.

    Amen

    May 26, 2013 at 10:11 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      Nothing has been proven to provide better health to humans than science. If you believe otherwise, I encourage you to present your evidence religion will make you healthier or even happier than science can. God didn't give you electricity, it was science. God didn't give you antibiotics, science did. God didn't bring an end to famine, it was through science that we can end world hunger. If you even care about facts, consider that it was during the industrial revolution that the life expectancies rose, not during the time of Christ.

      May 27, 2013 at 1:57 am |
    • Gee, I don't know

      The bible clearly says that God sent Egypt, plenty, and then famine. Science didn't exist then, God said it first so I believe him.

      I say it's black with fushia, and then I'm then told it's pink. That isn't even the point, the point is it was beautiful.

      May 27, 2013 at 2:11 am |
    • Gee, I don't know

      During the time of Christ, life expectancies for many went to infinity through his sacrifice for sins.

      If you ask a mother how she constructs a baby, giving him/her life, she will say she isn't doing anything, it just happens. If you ask science, science can tell you how to terminate the pregnancy and end life.

      You can debate colors, there is little impact from that. But when you debate God doing what he said he did, you will be much better off to believe him and read what he said. Because he told the truth, and others told you God told the truth. It is only you debating 'colors' and ignoring the beauty of having access to God's word, before it's too late to believe Jesus did what he came to do, for you.

      May 27, 2013 at 3:05 am |
  7. wjmccartan

    Okay its been a couple days since I first read this article, my mind was in overload when I read it then. Every time I start I get side tracked by the absolute stupidity of the people involved. Specifically that Pastor Nelson Clark. They were weak in their faith, these people have now let both of their sons die because of their faith. Who ever founded this religious sect must of had a very perverted view of things, so much so that he must of liked watching children die. Pound all your gods to dust before the innocence of the child taken! This is the failure of every level of government, from the town councilman or women, up to the President, and I like Obama, but he better start stepping up to those who let children die for a man words in a book.

    May 26, 2013 at 9:20 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      You said that they were :"weak in their faith." How would proper or "strong" faith have helped the situatuion?

      May 26, 2013 at 10:28 pm |
    • wjmccartan

      Moby

      I should not have used a period at the end of the sentence about their Pastor Nelson Clark, he was the one who made that statement in the article. If he were in front of me I would kick him in the balls so hard, his great grand children would feel it.

      May 26, 2013 at 11:15 pm |
  8. Doc Vestibule

    This reminds me of the story of Jade Sanders and Lamont Thomas, a vegan couple who killed their infant by feeding him soy milk and apple juice.
    Neither veganism nor Christianity are harmful in and of themselves, but they can provide wonderful rationalizations for killing.

    May 26, 2013 at 9:11 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      Putting ideology over the life of a helpless child is revolting, regardless of the ideology.

      May 26, 2013 at 9:16 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      It reminds me that humans, unlike other "lower" animals, have to learn or dream up everything they do, even when it comes to raising young. We should not be so hasty in calling ourselves the pinnacle of life on this planet.

      May 26, 2013 at 9:18 pm |
    • Austin

      Doc, you are full of it. Where does
      Christianity condone killing people?

      May 26, 2013 at 10:03 pm |
    • Austin

      My life is proof , my experience is evidence, that God Himself ordained His prophets, and ordained war and killing .

      Use the word cleanse. It applies to killing evil. Christianity has no such authority. Direct revelation is written, and closed . And the rationalization for murder is your trickery in pointing at the Lord Jesus for what Adolf Hitler did or the crusaders, and desperately trying to un deify the
      Risen Lord Jesus.

      Stop. You will get nowhere positive. There is an evil god of this world. Liar, accuser, and imposter.

      May 26, 2013 at 10:08 pm |
    • Austin

      I am simply assuring you that God has revealed Himself, His character, through His Word using the prophets and intervening in your life as atonement.

      May 26, 2013 at 10:10 pm |
    • Queen

      Yes, Austin, "cleanse" is a common word used to justify killing. Germany was ethnically cleansing the world of Jews and other undesirables, weren't they?The Nazis were masters at it.
      The neo-nazi white supremists want to do this even now in America. All hiding behind religion.
      Murder is murder, Austin. Stop trying to sugar-coat it by hiding behind the Bible.

      May 26, 2013 at 10:25 pm |
    • Austin

      No simply crediting the prophets of God with the authority to ordain war. Christian doctrine Calls for submission to authority, and does not authorize war or killing. Jesus Christ is the victor. Christian doctrine warns of false prophets and speaks of the worlds wars. Mans futile and treacherous nature. Not inspired by God.

      May 26, 2013 at 10:31 pm |
    • Austin

      When God kills , it is not murder. When you put a dog to sleep, do you murder it?

      May 26, 2013 at 10:32 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Murder is not committed on animals, you fvcking idiot.

      May 26, 2013 at 10:35 pm |
    • Austin

      I dis agree. If you run over a squirrel and you refused to press hard on the brakes you murdered the squirrel.

      May 26, 2013 at 10:41 pm |
    • oOo

      OK, so in Austinland, I'm guessing if you run over the squirrel with your tires, you are "killing it softly", but if you run over it with no tires and you are naked, and you were actually going so fast you didn't even know that you ran over it, then the squirrel probably died more quickly making it a misdemeanor.

      May 26, 2013 at 10:48 pm |
    • Austin

      Authoritative morality is derived in the High court of God. Man has no dissuading opinion .

      May 26, 2013 at 11:04 pm |
    • Queen

      Are you kidding me, Austin? These asshats murdering their kid by refusing medical help when the kid got pneumonia gets a pass by you, but running over a squirrel accidentally is murder? How fucked up ARE you, anyhow?

      Facepalm!! Unbelievable!

      May 27, 2013 at 12:16 am |
    • Queen

      He DROWNED them, Austin! If he had put them to sleep, that would have been recorded as suich in your precious Bible, wouldn't it have? What about S and G? Did they get put gently to sleep, too? Where do you GET these ideas from, anyway..."He put them to sleep"...lmfao!

      May 27, 2013 at 12:21 am |
    • The real Tom

      "If you run over a squirrel and you refused to press hard on the brakes you murdered the squirrel."

      What a numbskull. Nobody could be as dumb as this and still remember to breathe. No wonder you're such a loser, Austin.

      May 27, 2013 at 7:44 am |
  9. STFU

    someone should check and verify they had never been to doctor's office or hospitals.

    May 26, 2013 at 8:45 pm |
    • Athy

      Why would that matter?

      May 26, 2013 at 9:15 pm |
    • Gee, I don't know

      Arteisha Betts and Travis Ammonette claim in lawsuit that their OB-GYN refused to perform a planned C-section and then detached baby's spine while trying to yank him from the birth canal.

      May 26, 2013 at 9:23 pm |
    • Gee, I don't know

      The score is even, 1:1.

      May 26, 2013 at 9:38 pm |
    • Akira

      Oh, the case of Arteisha Betts and Travis Ammonette is awful...that hideous doctor nearly decapitated that poor baby...reprehensible.

      May 26, 2013 at 9:53 pm |
    • Gee, I don't know

      "When defendant Webb separated decedent Kaden Travis Ammonette's head from his cervical spine, blood from the arteries and veins in decedent's neck shot out, splattered and/or spilled out into the labor and delivery room in plain view of and in close proximity to plaintiffs Arteisha Betts and Travis Ammonette.
      "At the time that defendant Webb separated decedent Kaden Travis Ammonette's head from his cervical spine, plaintiff Travis Ammonette was approximately 2 to 4 feet from his son's head."
      As if the horror before the couple's eyes was not enough, Webb then "pushed" the baby's "head and body back into plaintiff Arteisha Betts' birth canal" and called for an emergency cesarean section, according to the complaint.

      Hospitals aren't the safest places in the world.

      May 26, 2013 at 11:03 pm |
  10. Queen

    ME II is asking Chad for verification for something Chad wrote: “The bible says that prayer can heal a person, no physician required.”

    I get that quotation marks are a hard concept for you to grasp, but really, you call other people dodo when it is readily apparent you are clueless yourself. You really should be able to understand punctuation better than the third-grade level you display.

    May 26, 2013 at 8:24 pm |
  11. Over 40,000 sects of insanity

    The craziness of in some Christian belief seems to grow only crazier as time goes by. And when incidents like the subject of this article come to light, other Christians are only too ready to try explain how another Christian's interpretation of ancient "scripture" is not quite right. Hands down, the most conflicted, hypocritical people on the planet.

    One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one (over 4,000,000 members) in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage.

    One sect, the Westboro Baptist Church believes Americans are being killed at war because America is too kind to "fags".

    One sect believes women to be subservient, while another sect in the same denomination promotes equality between the sexes.

    One sect believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri.

    Some believe the Pope is the Anti-Christ. Some believe Obama is the Anti-Christ.

    Some believe that celibacy is the only option for certain people, or for people in certain positions. Many of the people from these same institutions advocate against abortion, but pretend not to understand the realistic benefit of the morning after pill or even basic contraception; their unrealistic wishful thinking is causing the death of many at the hands of disease.

    In the U.S. recently we learned of the head of Lutheran CMS chastising a minister of that church for participating in a joint service for the victims of the Newtown school shooting.

    Conflicted right from the very beginning, Christianity continues to splinter and create more extreme divisions as time goes by, constantly subjecting others in its crossfire.

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    (Thomas Jefferson, from Notes on the State of Virginia, 1785)

    May 26, 2013 at 5:34 pm |

    • Bill Moyers recently interviewed Daniel Dennett, an American philosopher, writer and cognitive scientist whose research centers on the philosophy of mind, science & biology. He is the Austin B. Fletcher Professor of Philosophy at Tufts University. Watch the video at:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUeQXmYVamA

      Dennett says that not for all, but for many, the dangerous thing about religion is that "it gives people a gold-plated excuse to stop thinking."

      May 26, 2013 at 5:36 pm |
  12. Bostontola

    From a sociological point of view, religions make complete sense. We form groups that serve as a protection mechanism and we defend our own. This religious group has gone over the top and is pathological. It endangers its own most vulnerable rather than protect them. In a lawless field they would surely not survive. Given our society of laws, we must intercede and punish.

    May 26, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Faith,
      Did you forget to say "na na na na na nah"?

      May 26, 2013 at 4:31 pm |
  13. According to the bible god kills children for no good reason - why shouldn't his followers

    23 Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!” 24 When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number.
    2 Kings

    And Moses said unto them “Have ye saved all the women alive?... Now therefore Kill every male among the little ones
    Num 31:1-2, 9-11, 14-18

    May 26, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • Psalm 137:9 (nasb)

      "How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones
      Against the rock."

      May 26, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
  14. news

    Thanks for expressing your ideas here. The other element is that whenever a problem appears with a laptop or computer motherboard, folks should not go ahead and take risk involving repairing it themselves because if it is not done correctly it can lead to irreparable damage to the whole laptop. It will always be safe just to approach the dealer of any laptop for any repair of the motherboard. They will have technicians who have an expertise in dealing with notebook computer motherboard complications and can make right analysis and conduct repairs.

    May 26, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
  15. Therefore I say unto you, be not anxious for your life

    Therefore I say unto you, be not anxious for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than the food, and the body than the raiment?
    Behold the birds of the heaven, that they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not ye of much more value then they?
    Matthew 6:25-26

    May 26, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • Ah yes scarecrow

      Still seeking a brain.

      May 26, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      How can I behold the birds of heaven? How do birds get to heaven if they cannot accept jesus as their personal threatener/ savior?
      Birds do reap, and they sow.

      God does not feed birds, they forage and scrounge....this "scripture" makes no sense.

      May 26, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • Barn Owl

      We do get together for an old timey hootenanny once in a while and our guano helps the flowers grow.

      May 26, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      @Richard

      IN this case, the "heaven" being referred to is the sky. The OT myth (and NT, to some degree?) discuss three heavens. The one that is being referenced here is "the sky." You see, they thought that the earth was on "pillars" and that there was a dome of brass that separated water ABOVE the sky (to make it blue) and the air beneath that dome. (The heaven god was in was above the dome farther than they could see). The only animals the bible mentions being in "god's heaven" are horses.

      Pretty good stories for goat herders, I guess.

      May 26, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • Satyr

      One of the goat herders was my dad, tread softly on this one.

      May 26, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • Therefore I say unto you, be not anxious for your life

      "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and CHILDREN, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
      –(Luke 14:26).

      May 26, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Therefore I say unto you, be not anxious for your life

      Be you not afraid of the whoremongers who circle your encampments for they are as none effect and spoilers of many a goodly Word.

      May 26, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
  16. Chad

    Fake, scared you though.

    May 26, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • The real Chad

      There are only two options:

      A) I'm fake and I scared you; or
      B) I'm not fake, and I still scared you.

      May 26, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Oh, no! Not two of them!

      May 26, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • Chad

      The Real Chad from fake Chad.
      I am confused, did you not read my post, I will have to consult Rachel, be patient.

      May 26, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
  17. Over 40,000 sects of insanity

    Bill Moyers recently interviewed Daniel Dennett, an American philosopher, writer and cognitive scientist whose research centers on the philosophy of mind, science & biology. He is the Austin B. Fletcher Professor of Philosophy at Tufts University. Watch the video at:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUeQXmYVamA

    Dennett says that not for all, but for many, the dangerous thing about religion is that "it gives people a gold-plated excuse to stop thinking."

    May 26, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
  18. Over 40,000 sects of insanity

    The craziness of in some Christian belief seems to grow only crazier as time goes by. And when incidents like the subject of this article come to light, other Christians are only too ready to try explain how another Christian's interpretation of ancient "scripture" is not quite right. Hands down, the most hypocritical people on the planet.

    One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one (over 4,000,000 members) in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage.

    One sect, the Westboro Baptist Church believes Americans are being killed at war because America is too kind to "fags".

    One sect believes women to be subservient, while another sect in the same denomination promotes equality between the sexes.

    One sect believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri.

    Some believe the Pope is the Anti-Christ. Some believe Obama is the Anti-Christ.

    Some believe that celibacy is the only option for certain people, or for people in certain positions. Many of the people from these same institutions advocate against abortion, but pretend not to understand the realistic benefit of the morning after pill or even basic contraception; their unrealistic wishful thinking is causing the death of many at the hands of disease.

    In the U.S. recently we learned of the head of Lutheran CMS chastising a minister of that church for participating in a joint service for the victims of the Newtown school shooting.

    Conflicted right from the very beginning, Christianity continues to splinter and create more extreme divisions as time goes by, constantly subjecting others in its crossfire.

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    (Thomas Jefferson, from Notes on the State of Virginia, 1785)

    May 26, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • Science

      The legal end .

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      CNN logo CNN 3 weeks ago
      When Christians become a 'hated minority'
      .
      Hey Buffy..............from Bing.

      When Christians become a 'hated minority'
      The point where religious speech becomes hate speech is difficult to define, though, scholars and activists say. The Southern Poverty Law Center in Alabama is a nonprofit civil rights group that combats and monitors hate groups. Three years ago, it... Full Article at CNN

      http://legalnews.findlaw.com/article/0bj7cdy2zIcqA?q=law+OR+lawsuit+OR+legal+OR+%28court+AND+law%29

      Hey Vic and Chadie

      Faith-Healing Churches Linked to 2 Dozen Child Deaths

      by Vince Lattanzio posted on May 25, 2013 02:45PM GMT

      http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/5/25/faith-healing-churches-linked-to-2-dozen-child-deaths#

      Have a great life.

      Peace

      May 26, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
    • Science

      Hey faith .....use link below........enter email share story

      CNN logo CNN 3 weeks ago
      When Christians become a 'hated minority'

      https://give.liveunited.org/page/share/StoryThanks?blue_daisychain_id=7e4095e4-c644-11e2-a474-000000000000&action_code=FgxRWxYUOVIKQV0YAlweUQ&td=VVHLbtswEPwVQqcUiBRS1iO2L70URQ9pgSpAUDQBQZEre1GKFEgqhlP037uy3brliTu7nJkd_sxgVGizTXbYA9heheAPw2ytH-KkNASvf7y3-AqF9mN2mw0YYnJqBHrRaQSngVCr_oIfwVu_OxL4hhPVdV1VFVU9xJRr75LSKU94miU4gMEAOsk52DMidzOay1X2ipykS-WnJF-XniN_t1n0cyD1P9Xc_w9Me–u3eRJSQ5oIWab7y-E4M7Nkxx8GOVJb7UmDR1AJZBmkSy5WOW8zsuGlXxT8U1ZXydwksqYQGNtUwixKsS6LcR9e52YIwSpduAWrgf_htaq57u64OyGopxUwt7Clj10nz4wwQu-ZU_ojD9E9vmRESfVX56aasseAxpieb5rCv5u4d-rKRH3ybVYorUzWVYYj9RCd260IAaoSp7rpqpyIaDM16Zscv7PWf6T9r_8HO3LGW9pWfYVDCwBgWEdJmDdXgVgR8qXdZTkkd1EesNUZN8IO0GLs9Gb2cKF7hxw9us3

      May 26, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
  19. the AnViL™

    hey – you kids need to realize – when you argue with lionlylamb – you are literally arguing with a professed diagnosed schizophrenic.

    it's a flat fact.

    May 26, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      True...I just don't understand how it remains so blatantly ignorant of reality.

      May 26, 2013 at 12:28 pm |
    • The real Tom

      You're right. He's off his gourd. I suspect he enjoys frequent stays at a nearby mental hospital and is likely due for a visit to one in the near future.

      May 26, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Anvil,

      My baggage is light. What's your excuse for a little bloodletting among the still yet reprobate minds? Do you have an excuse to lay another's garbage? Yes I have an incurable mental disability and have been taking my meds "spiritually" now for many years. I find it mesmerizing to watch and see what phony baloney salesmen will do whenever their zippers catch their ball sack and they cry and whine like little babies all because of a hand rocking their cradles too damn hard!

      May 26, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Truth Prevails :mrgreen:

      Reality? Whose relativisms are rationally sound? Do you even know what the word, "relativisms" really means? Get the dictionary out for yourself and learn more then the feeble minded among the herds parlor towards!

      May 26, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
    • The real Tom

      "Parlor"? Look that up in your Funk and Wagnall's, you moron.

      May 26, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • The real Tom

      LL ought to show his posts to his lady doctor. If she's worth her salt, he'd be back in the loony bin post-haste.

      May 26, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Dear sweet Tommie child,

      My bad! Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the deer gets you!

      You'd be enlightened to know that my "brainiologist" knows well my thoughts, viewpoints and perspectives regarding many of my ongoing perceptivities! Just because you can doesn't mean I should! And for gods' sakes, if you can't say anything positive about someone then shut your pie hole and be stilled for Christ's sake!

      May 26, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Lunatic says: "if you can't say anything positive about someone then shut your pie hole and be stilled for Christ's sake!"
      Why don't you take you own advice, nutso? You're the one who's calling all who think your insane "reprobates" and "whes". You are the one engaging in ad hominem. You can't stand it when anyone calls you on your copious bullish!t, so you want to post here and not get any responses, apparently.

      Fine with me. You should be in a mental hospital.

      May 26, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • The real Tom

      "you're", not "your."

      "whore", not "whes"

      May 26, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
    • Akira

      "....have been taking my meds “spiritually”"

      Meaning you do not take them physically? Oh, okay. That explains a lot.

      May 26, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Tommie you old hag,

      nutso is not a word BTW.

      You really are a dunderheaded nincompoop! Go wash some dishes why don't you? And while your at it the dogs need their baths.

      May 26, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • The real Tom

      It's "you're", dumbfvck, as in "You're the one who needs a bath, nutjob."

      May 26, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • The real Tom

      I wonder if crazy people like Loopy think calling someone an "old hag" is "saying something nice"? If not, then why does the smelly old turd refuse to follow his own advice? Maybe it's the fact that he thought his meds were to be taken as suppositories.

      May 26, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Akira,

      spiritually,,, so sorry, I meant religiously for I am a very devoted follower of my body of a building made flesh where the sons of God do on occasion take rest in my body's buildings. Most of God's sons are quite amiable and do not resent their being but small fries within the grand schemes of the 3 Cosmologies of Ordained Order. When I die, Christ Jesus himself will pick up a stone from my body's buildings and He will whisk me with Him to another realm within the atomized cosmos where I will live but another time in another place of the LORD's choosing!

      May 26, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
    • Akira

      From what I understand, "hag" is derived from "haggard", which could be used to describe either gender, and any age, for that matter.

      May 26, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Merle is another haggard...but he's old school country.

      May 26, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Tommie in drag 👿

      You are such a loser! Get lost why don't you? Oh I forgot! You've been a lost loser for years but are too dang dumb to realize it!

      May 26, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • Doobs

      Ahahahaha! LL posted:

      "And for gods' sakes, if you can't say anything positive about someone then shut your pie hole and be stilled for Christ's sake!"

      here, and

      "TRTommie,

      Go fuck yourself you cunt!"

      on page 6.

      You might want to consider decaf, LL. You seem a bit irritable today.

      May 26, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • mama k

      Probably irritable bowel. Remember, when someone of his age should consider prunes before bedtime, LL is keeping all of "God's husbandry" inside of him thinking it'll give him some company.

      May 26, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Hilarious. LL claims he treats his body like a temple, but his mouth is a friggin' sewer.

      He's as much a hypocrite as the Piddler. It's pretty amusing that the two of them call others "old." I believe the Piddler has yet to earn a degree and is already in his 30s. The Fruit Loop is 58, which is my age exactly.

      May 26, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
  20. Truth Prevails :-)

    The removal of their rights to be near another child after they allowed one to die would have been the best thing possible. They didn't take the judge seriously and now they will never get near another child or each other for that matter. I just hope they wake up and see how seriously damaging their actions were.

    May 26, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.