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 Volunteers unload donations for tornado victims at the First Baptist Church on May 23, 2013 in Moore, Oklahoma.
May 25th, 2013
06:05 PM ET
In Oklahoma, a balm after the stormBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - For six days, First Baptist Church in Moore, Oklahoma, provided food and shelter to victims of Monday’s deadly tornado. On the seventh day, the church offers another scarce resource: solace. “Simply put, we are urging people to draw near to the Lord and near to each other,” said Kevin Clarkson, the church’s senior pastor. “As bad as this time is, we find that God will give us comfort and solace and hope for the future.” Four of the nine children who died in Monday’s tornado had ties to First Baptist. On Sunday evening, the church will host a prayer service called “Oklahoma Strong: Coming Together in Faith,” which Gov. Mary Fallin is expected to attend. In all, 24 people perished as a result of Monday’s tornado. Nearly 400 suffered broken bones and bruises, and 1,200 homes in Moore and Oklahoma City were damaged or destroyed, according to state officials. The twister’s tenacity took even Tornado Alley by surprise. But as cleanup begins, imams, pastors and rabbis in the deeply religious Sooner State are encouraging believers to draw on the deep wells of their traditions for spiritual sustenance. The common message across the faiths seems to be: God’s voice was not in Monday’s whirlwind but rather in the steady, quiet aftermath of neighbor helping neighbor. “What happens may be random, but how we respond to it is not,” said Rabbi Vered L. Harris of Temple B’nai Israel in Oklahoma City. “Making our responses holy begins with noticing the potential for sanctity.” One block, two tornadoes: Life in the crosshairs At Shabbat services on Friday night, Harris read a prayer asking God for the wisdom “to know how we can help” and “the calm to bring comfort.” Like Harris, Abdur-Rahman Taleb, the director of youth services at the Islamic Society of Greater Oklahoma City, focused on the human response to Monday’s tornado. “I find it amazing how people will come together across their differences for a common goal,” Taleb said. “The amount of people who came forward from the different faith communities to help those in need, regardless of their beliefs, is extraordinary.” Taleb said his sermon on Friday focused on the Quran’s second chapter, which tells Muslims that God tests the faithful with “fear and hunger and loss of property.” Passing that test entails remaining patient amid calamity, the Quran says. “We want to be mindful of God day in and day out, whether we’re going through good times or bad,” Taleb said. At Journey Church, an evangelical megachurch about 10 miles from Moore, Sunday’s message is about rebuilding, said Pastor Sam Wampler. The congregation will look to Nehemiah, who restored the walls of Jerusalem, for inspiration, said the pastor. “We are far enough in now where the grieving, the anger, is kicking in,” Wampler said. “People need that hope.” Photos: Pets rescued after Oklahoma tornado Pastor Bobby Gruenewald of LifeChurch.tv, which has 11 branches in Oklahoma, said his message on Sunday will focus on two key questions: Where is God during tragedies? And what can Christians do to help? “It's been a tough week but also an encouraging one as we've seen a tremendous response from the faith community,” Gruenewald said. “Churches from just about every denomination we can think of are coming forward with offers to help.”  A garden statue of the Virgin Mary stands in front of a window shattered by the tornado in Moore, Oklahoma. Some of the tornado’s first-responders have been turning to the Rev. Thomas Boyer, the longtime pastor at St. Mark the Evangelist Catholic Church in nearby Norman, Oklahoma. “It will be tough on them now,” said the 72-year-old priest, “and it will be tough on them later.” Boyer said he’s still searching for the right words to say in response. “Normally my homily is done on Thursday and posted on the website, but it's not even done," the priest said on Friday afternoon, as day darkened into night. Boyer will have some help: the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City adjusted the prayers and petitions for Sunday Mass to address the area's tribulations. But sometimes there is nothing to say other than “look to the Lord,” said Clarkson, who has already presided at the funerals of three young tornado victims. Perhaps that’s why Jared Bowie’s photo of a dark tornado twisting toward a cross has gone viral. Bowie, an intern at LifeChurch.tv’s campus in Edmond, Oklahoma, said his image has graced thousands of blog posts, media reports, Facebook pages and Instagram accounts since he posted it to CNN’s iReport. One woman even printed out the image and hung it next to her wedding photo, Bowie said. The picture was taken on May 19, when another tornado, a less destructive forebear of Monday’s deadly whirlwind, churned through Oklahoma. Nonetheless, the image has become inextricably tied to Moore’s loss of lives and homes, and the ultimate source of salvation for Bowie and other Christians. “People are going through severe suffering right now,” Bowie said. “But in those times, our Savior can provide so much hope. There is light in the darkness.” Eric Marrapodi, Dan Merica and Jessica Ravitz contributed to this report.
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  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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In the News
BBC reports a small group of English Defence League protesters picketing a mosque in York were offered tea and biscuits by members of the mosque. After about 30 mins., of talking, the group joined the mosque members inside to watch soccer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-22689552
Go leave a comment on that website.
This is an article about religion in Oklahoma in the wake of a natural disaster.
In the news: mama k tells us the news on a news blog about news at another news site and that's the news.
mama K is keeping us entertained since the Belief Blog editors went on vacation 10 days ago.
Keep it up mama k, love to hear the comments full of experience and wisdom.
I hate soccer it's boring.
In the News
"Michele Bachmann, a conservative firebrand whose bid for president last year ended after the Iowa caucuses, will not seek re-election to her Minnesota congressional seat in 2014."
Ding dong the witch is dead. R'amen.
That's not very nice.
Arnold: Why should anyone be nice to her?
Woo! Woo! Party time! Time to get my gay husband some action!!
Bachmann said her decision to run for Congress and to seek the presidency had been “based solely on my heartfelt concern for our country’s future.”
I thought she ran for president because God told her to.
we don't need her dead, we just want her to shut up and go away.
And in other news, I am going to bed and dream of being somewhere people don't tell me what the news is every five minutes.
The Washington Post has an article saying Bachmann's decision is a blow to Democrats. I didn't read the article but can only assume the obvious – anyone replacing her could never be as much of a loon. But you never know....
I see it as a disadvantage to the Democrats; if she can get elected with both feet permanently and firmly in her mouth, then the Republicans must be able to find better.
Atheist's small minded understanding of a Christian: But we live in a corrupted creation because Adam's sin caused a fall.
Atheist: But why did god make such a wonderful creation so easily corrupted that just one movement could pervert it to such a degree? Why didn't god make creation strong enough that it would not be corrupted?
Atheist's small minded understanding of a Christian: No, you don't understand, god made it perfectly but because Adam reached his hand up and at a 37 degree angle and clasped his fingers together and gave a short tug, it all went bad!
Atheist: And then later god had to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself?
Atheist's small minded understanding of a Christian: Yes! That's right! Now say this magic spell; it's only fourteen words!
It isn't Adam's fault! It was that hussy, Eve.
"Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."
– I Timothy 2:14
In Christianity, women are the instruments of death leading to all perdition.
Thank you, Doc. From this hussy :-). Great to read thoughts of a voice of reason.
The entire scientific effort in Inverse Kinematics CAN NOT achieve the full functionality of a grasshopper or so!
Wow! Thanks for the help! You reposted everything I wrote and didn't show how any of it was incorrect in any way. Really, I appreciate it!
So let me see if i understand:
Eve was the problem and the ultimate cuase of all pain. So if god had made Adam and Steve in the first place, everything would be fine now. Right?
"The real Tom" loses the argument every single time. It always defaults to name calling because it has nothing of value to say. Ever. Thankfully, most of us recognize failure and avoid any conversation with this individual who has wasted years of its life arguing with people in the comment section of CNN's wonderful fairytale showcase, the Belief Blog. Please don't fall into the trap of ineptitude as the individual called "The real Tom" has.
Please reference the following when arguing on the internet:
http://cdn.overclock.net/7/79/79c3c714_Argument-pyramid.jpeg
Claiming an argument was "won" does not make it so.
And claiming that a god exists also does not make that so, no matter how persistently you do it.
Sounds like someone was a sore loser, and I doubt it was Tom.
I don't believe in god. I am an atheist.
Second, I'm not a sore loser as you assume. My statements are made based on observations. I do not argue with "The real Tom" because I do not necessarily disagree with its position. I instead disagree with its constant delivery of personal attacks, which does nothing but damage its position on each and every subject, as well as the position of those that agree with what it states. It comes across as bitter and hateful, therefore negating any positive outcome of each discussion.
Believers remember these kinds of interactions and make a character judgment of all non-believers based on this. "The real Tom" is the Fairytale Showcase version of the WBC in its consistent hate.
"Believers remember these kinds of interactions and make a character judgment of all non-believers based on this. "The real Tom" is the Fairytale Showcase version of the WBC in its consistent hate."
The world is filled with assholes but you don't judge the entire world based on them, that is a poor argument. Part of being a mature person is learning to deal with these immature assholes without stooping to their level.
No global flood
No Adam
No Sun standing still for a day
No talking donkeys or snakes
No living in the belly of a fish for 3 days
No female pillar of salt
No empty tomb
No inherited sin
@The Fairytale Showcase "....."
You are a gentleman (human/person) and a scholar! I have worked with Atheists just like you who are professionals, respectful, thoughtful, objective and non-judgmental, who are totally respectable!
Bullshlt..... get over yourself.
Arriving at the Existence of God is Sentient
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/24/prosecutor-parents-refusal-to-seek-medical-attention-led-to-infants-death/#comments
What you mean is unclear. Sentient means being able to become aware of something through the use of senses. This way of arriving at knowledge of the existence of God has not worked.
We humans are Sentient of the Existence of God
Crazy bullsh!t, either way you phrase it, 'cause you don't have any proof for any god.
Sentience is a PROOF of God
"Sentience is a PROOF of God"
Sure thing, sparky
So say you. Actually sentient beings normally require objective, verifiable, independent and factual evidence as proof that a claim is true. If you are not delusional (mentally ill), you are lying. I'm going with both.
Vic
People all over the world are also "sentient" about reincarnation and alien abduction, but that doesn't make me believe their claims any more than yours.
God is a byproduct of sentience, not the other way around.
When early man, his little brain bent upon survival at all costs, discovered that the world worked independly from how he thought it worked, he was frightened and scared. That can't be! said early man to other early men. There must be some explanation, nature can't just be arbitrary!
"Ugg", said other early men, and thus "God" was born–or, more appropriately, gods. Early men weren't really very good at generalization, and since everything seemed to work independently from everything else, several gods were needed to explain the "stuff" that affected early man so profoundly.
But instead of "Gravityman," "LightWavesWoman," "FractalDemon," and "FunctionChild," early man, unaware of such mystical things as provability and objectivity, figured that somebody just like him, but a little smarter, must be responsible for how and why the world worked like it did. And since it was like him, it must be fickle, greedy, and childlike. Thus, mult.itheism had its glorious start.
As time went on, man began to build, man began to create, and gods began to resemble our more recent ancestors as their needs and wants changed. Christianity came along, a big beautiful "unified field theory" of a religion, and combined all of our fears and woes and hopes and dreams under one, easy-to-remember, easy-to-appease label, Jesus Christ.
Religion is an impossiblity our mind allows because it makes us feel safe, the ultimate goal of earlyman.
Faith is the emotion that precedes thought.
It is the cave-man instinct that comes upon us when we're confronted by something we don't understand.
@Doc – "Faith is the emotion that precedes thought" Well, that's a keeper.
Vic has brain damage or some other mental deficiency that prevents him from reasoning and from stating coherent thoughts.
Not to get into discussion over this epic subject, in short, the Unified Field Theory has never been proven! The Theory of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are INCOMPATIBLE, hence no Unified Field Theory validation! Gravity is a different animal than and therefore CAN NOT be included with Strong & Weak Forces/Interactions!
@Doc Vestibule
You said, "Faith is the emotion that precedes thought. It is the cave-man instinct that comes upon us when we're confronted by something we don't understand."
Once someone passes a certain threshold of understanding, and recognizes and understands natural explanations for natural phenomena, even the ones that are not yet understood, no longer require a supernatural explanation. It is of vital importance for those in power in any religion to control the contents and flow of information. It is crucial for the continued existence of the religion to keep the sheeple ignorant.
And let met guess, Vic, you learned this from another episode of the Jenny Jones show?
Very impressive, Vic....what does it mean?
Religious zealots believe in a universe and themselves as having been designed and thus having a purpose. This is integral to their theory of God, for they cannot conceive of this huge complex universe coming into existence without a purpose. However, after they invent God to give the universe purpose, they refuse to take that next step and ask how a huge and complex God came into existence without any designer or purpose. Their logic get's them only half way there, and then they give up and retreat into "God is a mystery!".
@Vic
I used the term "Unified field theory" as a metaphor.
I know that Christians can have difficulty separating allegory from literalism, so I thought I'd clear that up for you.
i prefer Sick Boy's Unifying Theory of Life
"Very impressive, Vic....what does it mean?"
He probably doesn't know which is why he is copying and pasting it. LOL!
@Sam Stone
Sick Boy may be lacking in moral fibre, but he knows a lot about Sean Connery.
That's hardly a sub-st-it-ute
Sure, let's find refuge in worshipping the "divine" force that brought the destruction and DEATH in the FIRST PLACE????
ONLY the religious could be that paradoxically masochistically minded...
Jeebus...
Not to mention, they desire eternity with a being from which they have to be "saved"
Christians. So stupid that they think it makes perfect sense to build a wonderful, complex, fabulous design that's susceptible to complete downfall the moment somebody picks a fruit from the wrong tree.
Xtian: But we live in a corrupted creation because Adam's sin caused a fall.
Atheist: But why did god make such a wonderful creation so easily corrupted that just one movement could pervert it to such a degree? Why didn't god make creation strong enough that it would not be corrupted?
Xtian: No, you don't understand, god made it perfectly but because Adam reached his hand up and at a 37 degree angle and clasped his fingers together and gave a short tug, it all went bad!
Atheist: And then later god had to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself?
Xtian: Yes! That's right! Now say this magic spell; it's only fourteen words!
Maybe women are to blame. Here is Pastor/convicted se$ offender Jack Schaap telling us all about the value of women.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NqN9Oan3YnU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqN9Oan3YnU&sns=em
What sort of world do you think God should have created? I guess He could have made a pure paradise, but what would that look like? Some things may seem obvious: No hunger, no pain, no poverty. Would there be death? Would there be birth? Would there be compassion? (not if there were no pain) Would there be courage? (not if there were no adversity to be courageous in the face of) Would there be care or concern for others? (why?)
My faith is that God created a world in which he made human beings free, and responsible, rather than making them robots. It is not that different from those of us who have children. We could raise them forced to tell us they love us (but with no depth of feeling), or we raise them so that they can be free and responsible, sometimes having to correct them, sometimes letting them learn difficult lessons (I told you not to touch that! Hurts, doesn't it?) Who doesn't cherish the feeble efforts they make as children to show us (voluntarily) that they love us (the drawings they make, the clay figures, the dandelions from the yard they call flowers, etc.) . I think of God much the same way...
nc law: how is free will consistent with an omniscient god?
@ nclaw441
Your justification for such a flawed system made by a perfect, all powerful being is laughable. If your god is truly all powerful and all knowing..you don’t think he could have found a way to make a perfect world where humans were not to be robots? Just because YOU can’t think of a way doesn’t mean this ‘god’ couldn’t..right? I mean he works in mysterious ways and we can’t comprehend the great plan with our tiny human brains! Or..how about just holding an individual responsible for their actions and not an entire species? /mind blown!
In terms of responsibility, why would god make 21st century people responsible for violating the supposed rules written, translated and edited by men in a long ago middle eastern agrarian society? How is that relevant to modern man in any way?
@Nclaw
If God wants human beings free, and responsible, rather than making them robots, why is humankind punished forever more for the Original Sin of seeking knowledge?
The Bible is rife with stories of God wreaking terrible vengeance on man becuase we seek to understand.
When my child asks me questions, we go and find the answers together – I don't punish her for asking.
don’t think he could have found a way to make a perfect world where humans were not to be robots?
No he is not capable of doing that, and that pi$$es him off so much that he is going to torture humans for eternity.
There is no logic or truth to religion. It's just lie on top of lie, poor rationalization on top of poor rationalization, in a vain attempt to prop up the unsustainable.
It would seem that freedom is the last thing he wants for man. He wants to hold them hostage to the dictates of Iron Age Sheep Molesters
@nclaw441
You're missing the point.
Supposedly, God created an Eden existence that was to stay that way, but he made it so fragile that one movement by one person caused the collapse of the entire system. Xtians don't blame god for making such a fragile existence so sensitive to corruptibility but rather blame the decdendents of the guy who moved his arm in a simple motion one time.
nclaw441” we raise them so that they can be free and responsible, sometimes having to correct them, sometimes letting them learn difficult lessons (I told you not to touch that! Hurts, doesn't it?)”
Only a hideous monster would leave a 2 year old alone with a loaded hand gun, tell him not to touch them and then banish them from the house for ever because he made a bloody mess.
Some of you are just mean. I'm an atheist, and if they're finding comfort in their God in time of trouble I think that's nice. My best wishes, and some of my money, go out to them.
If they only used their god for positive means I would agree but they don’t. Why should people give them iany slack just because TODAY they want to play nice when TOMORROW they will be right back into repressing others?
>Why should people give them any slack
I think what you mean is why should YOU give them any slack.
If you don't have any of the defects and shortcomings of 'those' people – I guess you may feel enti.tled to not accept them.
They probably are not that much different than you. "You spot it – You got it!"
They probably could have used food, shelter, household items, and money on the seventh day, too. If you find some solace in religion, fine, but acts of compassion and humanity are not confined to church members.
"but acts of compassion and humanity are not confined to church members." (Just mostly though.)
they could also take compfort in knowing that they still have better lives then 99 percent of all the species who have ever existed and are living in the greatest time period known to man , life isn't always joy and happiness we are living on a rock flying through space their are countless dangers we all face constantly , zeus or any other god has nothing to do with what happened , we have to rely on each other to pick each other up and to be strong
As the old saying goes - there are no athiests in foxholes....
What is your point? Atheists cannot be soldiers?
abby, that's bullshit.
Go here http://militaryatheists.org/atheists-in-foxholes/ and learn. You have insulted many brave military men and women who are atheists, and you suck.
What Ken said. Times thousands.
@Lt. Catherine – I would have said millions. Who would dare admit they have hit upon the truth while in a battle situation surrounded by religious people with weapons? I can't see it happening very often, really. The wall of separation has been long breached in the military and this is not only a violation of the Constitution, but a military breach of our security.
Please continue kicking ass, Lt., and thank you for speaking up.
Believers like to imagine that there are no atheists in foxholes. "See", they say, "they found out we were right all along, and they finally realized it in their moment of need. Ha! They should have listened to us in the first place."
It's just a pretty, self-aggrandizing story that believers like to tell. And, like most Christian sentiments, fits just right on a bumper sticker.
And like a lot of other old sayings, it's complete bu!!sh!t.
As Laura Bush used to say, you don't have to be smart to be president.
But without religion we probably wouldn't need as many foxholes.
the old saying is wrong
Which is an ABJECT falsehood.
great point saggyroy.
Yesterday morning there was a knock at my door. A pleasant and enthusiastic young couple were there.
John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."
Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?"
John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the guts out of you."
Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"
John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass."
Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."
Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"
Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."
John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"
Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."
Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?"
John: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."
Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"
Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the guts out of you."
Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"
John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."
Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"
John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."
Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"
Mary: "Well, maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."
Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"
John: "In this town, Hank is the same as good luck. All good things are attributed to Hank'"
Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."
John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the guts out of you."
Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."
Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."
Me: "Then how do you kiss His ass?"
John: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."
Me: "Who's Karl?"
Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."
Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"
John: "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."
From the Desk of Karl
1. Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
2. Use alcohol in moderation.
3. Kick the guts out of people who aren't like you.
4. Eat right.
5. Hank dictated this list Himself.
6. The moon is made of green cheese.
7. Everything Hank says is right.
8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
9. Don't use alcohol.
10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
11. Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the guts out of you.
Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."
Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."
Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."
John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."
Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"
Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."
Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the guts out of people just because they're different?"
Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."
Me: "How do you figure that?"
Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"
Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."
John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."
Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."
John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."
Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."
Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."
Me: "I'm not really an expert, but not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it plausible that it might be made of cheese."
John: "Ha! You just admitted that scientists don’t know everything, but we know Hank is always right!"
Me: "We do?"
Mary: "Of course we do, Item 7 says so."
Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"
John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."
Me: "But...oh, never mind.
from Jhuger.com
Dyslexic doG..............over 250 million years ago !
Rock Where India Crashed Into Asia And Pushed Up The Himalayas [PHOTO]
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/chris-hadfield-himalaya-satellite-photo-2013-5#ixzz2UdQgGr1G
http://www.businessinsider.com/chris-hadfield-himalaya-satellite-photo-2013-5?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Science%20Select&utm_campaign=1-SCIENCE_SELECT_NEW&utm_content=emailshare
Peace
I'll be sending this out in emails today! Very funny post. Thanks.
Fan-freakin'-tastic!!! BRAVO!!!
In Hank's holy name... lol
Religion, just another filthy perverted ponzi scheme.
amen!
The payoffs are great! You just have to die first.
Cue the dipsticks who will say, "Ah, but *I* don't follow *any* religion. *I* follow The Bible!" doh!
It's amusing that all responses like this never have a theory, thought or basis for anything they say.
This case is an excellent example of why I cannot logically be a pro-choice advocate. If it's not wrong to deprive an unborn fetus of life because the mother has a freedom of conscience then it can't be wrong to allow other marginalized people to die by the same standard. It's not consistent, philosophically. To those who would say an unborn fetus is not viable, I would say, it is until you introduce action to terminate it. The only honest response is from those who say "it has no right of person-hood" to which I agree but find inhuman that we justify infanticide by political conference of person-hood. Abortion rights just don't hold water.
Bill, The so-called pro-life movement is realistically anti-abortion, it does not address the myriad ways that people die: water safety, food safety, road safety, gun safety, drug safety, preventable disease, starvation, etc.
Bill, a person should make their own decisions about health care for their own body. The fetus is part of the woman's body and thus it is her right to make health care decisions about it-as part of her body. Don't be silly.
Bill, you must mean people who are "marginalized" such that their survival is completely dependent on other people at serious risk to those people. Also, your "marginalized" people must be unaware that they are alive. It's hard to imagine how you can compare a person to a fetus otherwise.
Infanticide isn't abortion.
Look it up.
Abortion also has nothing to do with these people killing their two children, either. The two are entirely separate issues, and no amount of you posting this on different threads is going to make apples and oranges similar.
Bill,
I agree with you. When people don't like the sound of something they change the name to make it more palatable. But a rose by any other name...
You can try and jam that square peg into the round hole all day if you like; it's still not going to fit. I know you want it very badly, and in the end you will try and sand the edges. That doesn't mean you get to change the definitions and reality to fit your view.
Bill, well thought.
As a Believer in Christ, my beliefs are that all life is sacred, and while there are times I want to see revenge, it's not mine sO i oppose capital punishment as well.
I have contended a fetus has 2 indisputable characteristics that science supports without fail: 1. That the DNA is distinctly human and cannot be anything other than human, and 2. That unless something prevents it from continuing through its stages, it is living.
Therefore, it's human life.
Pro choice will argue philosophically about it(when is it conscious, can it support itself, etc), and also ethically(can a mother of 6 support another mouth to feed, quality of life for mental or physical dificiencies, etc), but these questions and all other questions or arguments about when life begins cannot be entertained unless there is a pregnancy to talk about.
I also contend that if we were to find a clump of cells on mars that appear to continue to develop and rejuvenate, will not the headlines scream LIFE EXISTS ON MARS? Then will we argue if its ours to consider killing it in order to study it, or even just to remove it as its inconvenient to a specific mission?
Or do we allow it to continue through its processes?
In His Love, Juannito.
Juanito, what science does support without fail is that a fetus is alive, your liver is alive, a tumor is alive, individual cells are alive, etc. Moreover, it is becoming evident the the potential for fully developed human life may be in many types of cells. Life, even life that could develop into conscious, reasoning, human life, does not in-and-of-itself merit protection on par with the protection conscious beings can claim. This is because the protections we want and can claim for ourselves do not require it. And we're the only ones around to decide what is right for us and to make the rules we live by.
Whether or not a fetus is "human life" is irrelevant. Anti-choicers whip out these lines about how the fetus is genetically distinct from the mother. The problem with the argument is that it requires the baseless assumption that all "human life," that is to say any organism contains which human DNA, has equal value. The life of a fetus which is not physiologically autonomous and which cannot think or feel is not equal to a woman who has all of those qualities. This sort of biological reductionism, the belief that a "person" is defined by their DNA, is an extremely devaluation of what it means to be human, is not rational, and is not philosophically viable. First, if anything which has distinct human DNA is a "person," then all of the skin cells we shed every day are "persons." Second, the human genome is not vastly different from the genomes of related species. The genetic difference is, in fact, miniscule, so to chalk up "personhood" to such a tiny difference is rather ridiculous. What truly, meaningfully distinguishes us from other species is our capacity for complex emotion and higher-order cognition. These things are not present in an embryo/fetus for most of its development. Therefore, it does not possess the qualities which truly distinguishes "persons." Third, a right to life does not equal a right to have others sustain that life or a right to anyone else's biological resources. Our society operates on this principle. Why should fetuses be a special case?
@ Maya
You demonstrate my point.
You cannot refute that it is distinctly human and its living. Regardless of whatever stage the fetus is in, left untouched it will be born and grow into your son or daughter. (I hope you never have to tell your child that they were a choice, by the way. )
Debating its 'personhood' goes right into the philosophical side of your argument. The nazis were quite successful claiming the Jews were vermin and could not be accorded the same protections as humans. In doing so, it becomes easier to kill: Jews, slavics, poles, gypsies.
And now fetuses.
The existence of those born or unborn are not to be put up for debate. Not by the nazis, commies, or you.
Tom Tom, I responded to yours but it didn't go through.
In the Love of Jesus, Juanito.
Juanito,
The Bible not only doesn't mention abortion, it actually offers more points to support abortion than oppose it.
Why not read it?
Nobody gives a flying crap whether you're a "pro-choice advocate", Dill Doe. The courts have made the decision. No need for you to have an opinion, since you don't have a say.
Women get pregnant. They have the choice. The day you give up your right to choose what you will do with your body, do let the media know. Until then, suck it.
Juanito brays: "Therefore, it's human life."
So? It's not a person under law, dumbazz. Women are. They get the say. The fetus is not. It doesn't.
Dill Doe, you simply don't get it. If you cannot ever become pregnant, you don't have a clue what it means to become pregnant. You don't get a say for anyone who does, anymore than you'd allow someone else the right to tell you to get yourself castrated.
It isn't a matter of the fetus. It's a matter of who has rights over a woman's body. You don't. At all.
I'm so glad I left the Catholic church many years ago, and for a new additional reason now: I'd be embarrassed to be part of the same group as Bill Deacon.
Strange that many criticize a woman in China dumping her baby in a sewer while in the US this happens some 900 + times per day.
No, it doesn't, are. Legal abortion and child abandonment and neglect are not the same thing and to pretend they are is a sign of either stupidity or disingenuousness.
"Strange that many criticize a woman in China dumping her baby in a sewer while in the US this happens some 900 + times per day"
Really? 900 children who have already been born are put in sewers each day?
Sending Maya's quote to the Schiable's attorney:
"A right to life does not equal a right to have others sustain that life"
I really do wish people would learn the legal arguments around this topic instead of just blathering whatever holier than thou 'logic' that comes to mind.
Pssst.... hey Bill.... pssst..... WRONG ARTICLE.
Bill won't care that it is the wrong article.
We have people accepting his arguement as the correct way to look at the issue, and he will think he won an arguement.
yes! a tragedy, quick in the Jesus mobile robin
I am amazed at all the disclaimers and technicalities and obscure Bible references that Christians are coming up with to explain how it wasn't actually God who caused the tornado or maimed and slaughtered the poor innocent elementary school children and the other god fearing Christians in this part of the bible belt.
– "God gives us free will" - not sure how our free will changes that God created a tornado and sent it on a path to kill
– "Satan is the lord of the air so he did it" - OK ... Satan bad and God good ... maybe read all God's slaughter in the Bible
– God doesn't want to interfere" - then why is he worried about who we sleep with and all our sins and our daily adoration?
The list goes on and on, each explanation more pathetic than the last.
This is from a God that Christians are usually only too willing to proclaim his omnipotence and power to create the universe and the earth and all the miraculous creature on the earth ... and the eye ... for some reason Christians love quoting that one?
What a joke this religion is. Brainwashed from an early age, Christians deny logic, deny fact, and have no hope of reality.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/22/this-oklahoma-atheist-isnt-thanking-the-lord/comment-page-16/#comment-2363529
Vic, Are you saying that your omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent god has no influence on earth and humans? You can't have it both ways – either it is capable of effecting change or it is not. If it is then it is either choosing to initiate natural disasters and not save people or to not prevent natural disasters and not save people. More realistically it does not exist.
Hey Vic
NewsHourVerified account@NewsHour
In honor of Bob Dylan's 72nd birthday, @Slate made a map of every street, town, and city he's ever sung about http://slate.me/10QYfST
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Oxford Town, Red Hook, and Every Other Place Bob Dylan’s Ever Sung...
By Chris Kirk @cperryk
Bob Dylan’s music, it’s often said, happens in a world of its own—where the highway is for gamblers and you’re always 1,000 miles from home. It’s a surreal, ethereal realm, lawless but for chance,...
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http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/19/proofs-of-heaven-popular-but-not-with-the-church/comment-page-48/#comment-2355817
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/19/proofs-of-heaven-popular-but-not-with-the-church/comment-page-48/#comment-2355683
]
Go there Vic and make sure to go to bottom of page ..................and read IT
https://www.zotero.org/colleengreene/items/XW3H99PB
Mathew 5:45
"... for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."
Im Ashamed That The Body Of Christ (We As Christians) Are Afraid To Admit That Our God Is In Fact Superior And Controller Of Our Weather. He Is Our Father, Our Almighty And Power. He Is A Consuming Fire As Much As He Is Love.. And Nature Belongs To Him. The Story Of Abraham's Plead For Sodom Will Explain Further
Genesis 18:16-33
"16 When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. 17 Then the Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do? 18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.[a] 19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”
20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”
22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[b] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[c] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”
27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”
“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”
29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”
He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”
30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”
He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”
31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”
He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”
32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”
He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”
33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home."
Now There Are Thousands Who Believe In Our God And Sadly The Question Is This, If Our Lord Even Spares For The Ten, Are There Not Even Ten Who Truly Follow Him?
Examine Yourselves. My Prayers Are For You
Rock Where India Crashed Into Asia And Pushed Up The Himalayas [PHOTO]
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/chris-hadfield-himalaya-satellite-photo-2013-5#ixzz2UdQgGr1G
http://www.businessinsider.com/chris-hadfield-himalaya-satellite-photo-2013-5?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Science%20Select&utm_campaign=1-SCIENCE_SELECT_NEW&utm_content=emailshare
Oops.........there Vic
Rock Where India Crashed Into Asia And Pushed Up The Himalayas [PHOTO]
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/chris-hadfield-himalaya-satellite-photo-2013-5#ixzz2UdQgGr1G
In all these cases, where people are saved and "God" gets credit, I would pose the question: if "God" can save someone from a disaster, why can't "God" just prevent the disaster in the first place?
Is he a complete moron? Is he sloppy? Is he absent-minded, random, cruel? Or does he, maybe, oh... I don't know... NOT EXIST?
You obviously don't read too many books on physics. Try one by physicist Paul Davies, "The Mind of God." Learn who denies logic.
You obviously only read books on physics when they support your beliefs, are. How many physicists do not agree with Davies? How many are agnostics and atheists?
Is this where we get to appear totally without compassion because we don't share in other peoples' religious beliefs? GOOD!
I am SO HAPPY that due to advances in SCIENCE and RATIONALITY it is no longer necessary to offer other human beings comfort in times of trial.
Instead we can make fun of the afflicted to show our superiority.. And the interweb means we can do so without consequence. SCIENCE is SO wonderful.
Stranger, People have compassion. Science is not to blame if the religious cling to their delusions regardless of facts – even though they cannot make a cogent argument for god or the validity of the bible.
It's peopel who do good deeds, that includes atheists.
Religions steal the good works of others, take a cut off the top, then claims the work as their own.
people
There are over 20 major religions in the world. Unless you know for sure that every single one steals the good work of it people, please refer to the ones you are insulting specifically.
George, On example would be the posters here who claim that churches do good deeds. True, some good deeds are done in the name of religion, but that a) doesn't make good the exclusive domain of the religious and b) to this post, the church gets the money from individuals. Churches such as the RCC, Cyprus Orthodox, Anglican, and Mormon have huge wealth which they retain and invest.
I am quite sure that there are many who do take credit for the inherent goodness in people. I am sure that there are those who don't. Lumping them all together is not necessary.
Victoria
Being a property owner at the Jersey Shore that was recently visited by Sandy I want to make a few points
Firstly, God didn't do it, he doesn't exist.
Secondly, each community must make provisions for disaster. Failing to do so lays on your leaders as should the consequences. If our NJ leaders squander our aid, and in ten years people die in another hurricane, I shall neither thank nor blame God, but only those who took the aid.
Thirdly, this is NOT your first trip to the rodeo. Your community failed in protecting the most vulnerable amongst you. They took aid, and made speeches and failed to do the right thing.
I understand your anger, but am amazed at your inability to direct it properly. I have seen the big old church you built after the last storm. Now babies died in their schools, and you want to show anger to someone. I understand and just hope you direct it at those who you put in power, those in your churches and schools and government.
The blood is on their hands, and no amount of Christian rationalization can change that fact. Please fix it this time, we are running out of compassion.
That is all.
Fair post, William. Religion for most believers just seems an attempt to slough off responsibility that should be theirs. Deny the attempt.
Why bother praying, the super being overlord do this to you all?
Don't the god suckers say it's part of his plan?
So go ahead a pray to the god that killed your friends and relatives.
In the meantime......
BOW!!!!
YIELD!!!!!
KNEEL!!!
AND GIVE ME YOUR MONEY, ERR UMMM, I MEAN DONATIONS!!!!
if god has a plan, prayer is futile
Sam Stone, If god has a plan, supplicatory prayer is blasphemy...it's saying to god that you have a better plan.
Here's a superbazillion god-dollars. That's the best I can do. Take it or leave it.