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May 31st, 2013
04:19 PM ET
Baptists plan exodus from Boy ScoutsBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - For Southern Baptist pastor Tim Reed, it was Scripture versus the Scouts. “God’s word explicitly says homosexuality is a choice, a sin,” said Reed, pastor of First Baptist Church of Gravel Ridge in Jacksonville, Arkansas. So when the Boy Scouts of America voted to lift its ban on openly gay youths on May 24, Reed said the church had no choice but to cut its charter with Troop 542. “It’s not a hate thing here,” Reed told CNN affiliate Fox 16. “It’s a moral stance we must take as a Southern Baptist church.” Southern Baptist leaders say Reed is not alone. Baptist churches sponsor nearly 4,000 Scout units representing more than 100,000 youths, according to the Boy Scouts of America. That number could drop precipitously. The Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s largest Protestant denomination, will soon urge its 45,000 congregations and 16 million members to cut ties with the Scouts, according to church leaders. The denomination will vote on nonbinding but influential resolutions during a convention June 11-12 in Houston. “There’s a 100% chance that there will be a resolution about disaffiliation at the convention,” said Richard Land, the outgoing head of the Southern Baptists’ Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, “and a 100% chance that 99% of people will vote for it.” “Southern Baptists are going to be leaving the Boy Scouts en masse,” Land continued. Roger “Sing” Oldham, a spokesman for the Southern Baptist Convention, emphasized that local congregations make their own decision on the Scouts. But he, too, said he expects Baptist delegates, which the church calls “messengers,” to voice their disagreement with the BSA's decision to allow gay youths. “With this policy change, the Boy Scouts’ values are contradictory to the basic values of our local churches,” Oldham said. Several religious groups with strong Scouting ties support the new policy. “We have heard from both those who support the amended policy and those who would have preferred it would not have changed,” said BSA spokesman Deron Smith. Faith-based organizations charter more than 70% of Scout chapters, providing meeting space and leadership, according to the BSA. “There have been some organizations that have decided not to renew their charters with Scouting," said Smith, "but we can’t quantify the impact of the amended policy." The National Jewish Committee on Scouting, the United Church of Christ, the Episcopal Church, the Unitarian Universalist Association and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which sponsors more Scout units than any other faith, all endorsed the change. The National Catholic Committee on Scouting, which is run with oversight from a bishop, said Thursday that allowing gay youths in the Scouts does not conflict with church teaching. Each bishop will decide whether or not to allow churches in his diocese to charter Scout units, the committee added. “We ask that Catholic Scouters and chartered organization heads not rush to judgment,” said Edward Martin, chairman of the National Catholic Committee on Scouting. But the Rev. Derek Lappe, pastor of the Our Lady Star of the Sea Catholic Church in Bremerton, Washington, has already made up his mind. “I do not feel that it is possible for us to live out, and to teach, the authentic truth about human sexuality within the confines of the Boy Scout’s new policy,” said Lappe. The priest told CNN affiliate FOX16 that his parish will part ways with the Scouts and develop its own programs. There may soon be an alternative to the Scouts for social conservatives like Lappe. John Stemberger, founder of On My Honor, a group that opposed the Scouts’ change in policy, plans to convene conservatives in Louisville, Kentucky, in June to consider forming a new Scout-like group, which could be up and running by the end of 2013. “Churches and Scoutmasters are looking for leadership and direction,” said Stemberg, an attorney in Orlando, Florida. A number of conservative religious denominations already sponsor their own groups. For instance, the Southern Baptists have the Royal Ambassadors, an explicitly Christian program founded in 1908 for boys in first through sixth grade. (A similar group called Challengers equips older boys in “mission education.”) The name comes from the New Testament, in which the Apostle Paul tells Christians to be “ambassadors for Christ.” The estimated 31,000 Royal Ambassadors pledge “ to become a well-informed, responsible follower of Christ; to have a Christlike concern for all people; to learn how to carry the message of Christ around the world; to work with others in sharing Christ; and to keep myself clean and healthy in mind and body." While not as outdoorsy as the Boy Scouts, Ambassadors do camp and play sports, said Land, who was a member of the group during the 1950s. But instead of merit badges for archery and bird study, young Ambassadors earn patches for memorizing Bible verses and mission work. Southern Baptists said they are preparing for a surge of interest in the Royal Ambassadors at their upcoming convention in Houston. “We really have an opportunity here to strengthen our RA programs,” the Rev. Ernest Easley, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee, said in a sermon last Sunday, “and to get the boys in a program where they’re going to be protected, where there’s a high moral standard and where they will have an opportunity to learn about camping, missions, evangelism in the local church.” soundoff (10,821 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 Next » |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Is there anything American that the Baptists are for?
I mean, other than Mom and Apple Pie, maybe the Baptists aren't a bell-weather group we really need to pay attention to.
107 pages of hatred and counting....from both directions.....Perfect for a Sunday afternoon!
...spewing forth from the fundi's on both ends of the spectrum.
Did the boys scouts also ban kids that have lied or stolen in their lives? Last I checked those were "sins" as well. I also think that his scripture instructs him to "love the sinner" but hate the sin.
There is no god that demands this type of behaviour. There are only men that twist these teachings to their own biases.
I guess Baptists know that some "sins", the things that they are never tempted to ever do personally, must be far worse than others because they're basically good people, and if they're not even tempted to go that far, then it must be simply beyond the pale, as they say.
Oh look the troll stole my handle to post their garbage, you must hate being proven wrong.
Anyone who is that convinced they are dealing with a perv or unclean, unmoral person needs to go. In fact instead of leaving the Boy Scouts I would encourage them and their opinions leave the country because we pride ourselves in being a diverse and accepting nation and this is reflected our broader society and it's laws. And thank God we continue to accept others as we move in the right direction of history.
Just like Sodom moved in the right direction of history
Colin
"'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. Eze 16:49
Sounds more like a lot of southern states to me, especially the "overfed" part, and everyone knows that wanting to help the "poor and needy" is just code for socialism, right?
As an AMERICAN Baptist (not a southern baptist) I am very concerned about the way this is being reported as a Baptist church and not a Southern Baptist church in the headline. I resent being grouped in with hateful bigots like that.
JJ... Since the Word of God clearly tells us that we should "separate ourselves" from those who walk disorderly, and that believers should not mix with unbelievers, to disassociate yourself from those who are following God is to disassociate yourself from God...
"Since the Word of God clearly tells us that we should "separate ourselves" from those who walk disorderly, and that believers should not mix with unbelievers,"
That's why Jesus did not do that instead he did the exact opposite. Plus if you don't mix with unbelievers then you would not be able to share the truth of Christ with them.
@ nice try...dang! Do you realize that what you wrote sounds like nothing but a bunch of hateful propaganda. That's what your religion has become. How sad.
Good point, JJ. There are Baptist churches that are, for instance, members of AWAB and have identified themselves as such – even protesting openly against Westboro.
Sue... Don't you know scripture? It was Jesus himself who commanded us to separate ourselves from sinners. Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh. Every word in the bible – from Genesis to Revelation – is the words of Jesus Christ. Countless people will end up in hell behind their own concepts and because they don't know scripture...
JRNY… Then why is it that all I'm hearing from you is hate...
Yes Arthur, but "objective moral truths" on many things, including hom-ose-xuality is out the window when there is such disparity in the interpretation and application of such beliefs within Christianity. That's why, if there is any hope left for Christianity, followers had better start coming to the table to discuss issues such as this by first leaving the faith card at home.
I have a friend who was married by the lesbian minister of an independent Baptist church...and this in the South. People do need to remember that while Souther Baptists are the largest organized group, there are many other organizations and independent Baptist churches.
Well, the Southern Baptists show their a$$es again. Congrats to the most narrow minded people around for wanting to exclude scouts because they now allow gay members. Well whoop de doo. How about we exclude them from the United States of America? They can all just pack and leave this country immediately. Who needs 'em! In fact, we can change their names to Very Southern Baptists as they trek to Mexico and beyond. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
How is standing by your faith being "narrow minded?" You should look in the mirror before you start "judging people".
Religion has always been a choice, but now we know that homosexuality is not. Therefore in this case, "standing by your faith" equals bullying children just because they were born a certain way. I don't know about you, but I think that picking on children for no real reason is incredibly narrow minded.
Mr. B-OKC… I take it you're speaking on behalf of Lucifer then. Because you're clearly not speaking on behalf of God. The scriptures clearly tell us that we should "separate ourselves" from those who walk disorderly, and that believers should not fellowship with unbelievers. Therefore, to disassociate yourself from the very people who are following God is to disassociate yourself from God…
Speaking on behalf of Lucifer? Can you really be that much of an idiot? My GOD loves all, period. I go to Church, teach Sunday School and try to live a good life and of course make mistakes but I know enough in this life to understand that even gay children are loved and welcomed by GOD. I cannot honestly understand how anyone can think otherwise. Get with the program people.
How cool would it be if the BSA made a preemptive strike and disassociated themselves from the SBC before the June convention?
Maybe the BSA could get sponsorship from corporations like Little League teams do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0-04VDrCbM
. . . . .
Benny Hinn is a Pentecostal, not a Fundamentalist. You really need to educate yourself before making a comment.
@Sue – like it matters – LOL
Good. It's good that people finally stick up for their beliefs in one fashion or another.
time to exit the boy scouts when the perv gets his way, I was a boy scout when it was cool to be straight, too bad the pervs will not qualify as morally straight
"time to exit the boy scouts when the perv gets his way, I was a boy scout when it was cool to be straight, too bad the pervs will not qualify as morally straight"
Sociologists and psychologists hold that some of the emotionality in prejudice stems from subconscious attitudes that cause a person to ward off feelings of inadequacy by projecting them onto a target group. That's right folks homophobic people like this are just insecure and immature.
Wow jcruz20...you sure have a "perv" hang up. Psychologist have mentioned that often, people hate in others, what they see in themselves.
troll..
What ever happened to Courteous and Kind?
What ever happened to respecting America and its laws?
Guess your troop was the one, not in Khaki, but in white robes.
If the Baptists want to leave Scouting, don't let the tent flap hit you in the a$$ on the way out.
How can we get them to leave the country is what I want to know...
You'd have to find someone to take them. a few visas maybe issued to the smallish number of engineers and physicians among this group, but most couldn't get into another country.
Hey sara how about chad ...............he is suppose to be an engineer ?
It depends on the country, the type of engineer etc. Most countries aren't very interested in immigrants over 35 or with any health problems either, but I don't know how old Chad is.
One problem for these folks, too, is that they can't really go on about how they'd go to Country X very easily, as there are few countries more religious than the US...at least few that provide reliable drinking water and have substantial life expectancies.
Hitler had a boys program where gays were excluded. Why not the Baptists?
Hitler was an anti-smoker too. You a smoker?
Hitler was a hindu secular, crook self centered and being a gay, hind lover is one of the basic fundamental of hinduism, racism.
He smokes long things, but they're not cigarettes.
@billfitt – is that the obvious troll can come up with?? pathetic.
"Royal Ambassadors" will become the new group for boy lovers to lead.
I think the boy scout participation will grow tremendously. Every gay boy will want to join. It will be like heaven to a gay to have all those young men in uniform.
You understand nothing, do you?
Jimmy... Yes, it'll be exactly like heaven – until they die and go to hell for being gay...
A recent poster wrote that God hates the sin of homosexuality.
Religions that agree with the poster's statement claim such a notion as an absolute moral truth. We know such notions are founded in ancient writings from millennia past. For many things we have learned about through science, beliefs have had to adapt to keep from looking silly and being out of date with current knowledge. This is simply another time where fundamental religions are struggling to keep up with current knowledge and throwing a hissy fit about the discomforting situation they find themselves in.
We know that homosexuality has always been a naturally occurring feature across many species including mankind, and science is now getting closer and closer to answers on how it survives across generations. Now that the scientific research shows that homosexuality is not a choice, but formed very early via epigenetic factors (resistant to change), religions that abhor homosexuality look sillier than ever on the issue. For Christians in particular, I would also say their wildly conflicting Biblical interpretations regarding a wide array of topics including this one is just another indicator that their objective truths are anything but objective.
For issues such as this, with the knowledge we have today, Christians need to come to the table without "scripture", and ready to discuss such issues rationally. Otherwise they will continue to face an ever increasing tide of distrust and an ultimate indictment of irrelevancy.
=================================================
Psychology
The American Psychological Association states "there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people", and says most people's sexual orientation is determined at an early age. Research into how sexual orientation in males may be determined by genetic or other prenatal factors plays a role in political and social debates about homosexuality, and also raises concerns about genetic profiling and prenatal testing."
Professor Michael King states: "The conclusion reached by scientists who have investigated the origins and stability of sexual orientation is that it is a human characteristic that is formed early in life, and is resistant to change. Scientific evidence on the origins of homosexuality is considered relevant to theological and social debate because it undermines suggestions that sexual orientation is a choice."
The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:
"Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice."
Biology
The following is from the article:
Homosexuality ultimately a result of gene regulation, researchers find (12/11/2012 – LiveScience)
[ The search for a "gay gene" may be off-target, new research finds. Another process called epigenetics that switches genes on and off may explain why homosexuality runs in families.
Epigenetics are heritable changes caused by factors other than DNA. Instead of traits getting passed down through the genes, epigenetic change happens because of the way genes are regulated, or turned on and off.
These genetic regulators may be the reason homosexuality persists in nature despite the fact that gay people are less likely to reproduce, suggests the new study published in the journal The Quarterly Review of Biology.
"These things have evolved because they're good for the parents, but they sometimes, not [with] high frequency, but sometimes carry over" into offspring, study researcher William Rice, an evolutionary geneticist at the University of California, Santa Barbara, told LiveScience. In a male fetus, Rice and his colleagues write, an epigenetic change that benefited the mother may lead to "feminization" of sexual preference — homo- or bisexuality. The same may be true for epigenetic changes passed down by dad to a female fetus. (The terms feminization and masculinization of sexual preference refer to sexual orientation only — not to physical or personality traits of the offspring.)
The findings add to past research suggesting gay men haven't died out, because female relatives of gay men tend to have more children on average than other females. The study researchers specifically found that two genes passed on through the maternal line could produce this effect.
Hormones, epigenetics and orientation
Rice and his colleagues focused on epi-marks, which are molecular changes that act like temporary "switches" to turn genes on and off. If a gene is a blueprint, the epi-mark is the construction foreman who makes sure the product gets built. An epi-mark also determines when, where and how much a gene is expressed, according to the National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis.
These molecular switches are usually erased very early in the developmental process, but they can be passed down from generation to generation, too, Rice said.
Some epi-marks are particularly important during fetal development, when they promote normal physical development in the sexes despite natural variations in testosterone during pregnancy. Researchers know that fetal exposure to too much testosterone can masculinize the genitals, brain or behavior of a genetically female fetus. Likewise, too little testosterone can make a genetically male fetus more feminized.
But here's the catch: There's lots of overlap between the levels of testosterone male and female fetuses get exposed to. That means there must be another side to the story, Rice and his colleagues wrote.
That side appears to be epigenetics, Rice said.
"Early in development, we think these epi-marks are laid down so that girl fetuses will be relatively insensitive to testosterone and male fetuses will be relatively sensitive to testosterone," Rice said.
Biological behavior
Thus, if an epi-mark that kept a mother from getting exposed to high testosterone in development gets passed on to her son — the opposite sex — it could desensitize him to testosterone, contributing to his sexual preference for men. Similarly, if a male-specific epi-mark from dad gets passed to a daughter, it could "masculinize" her sexual preference, making her more interested in women.
These findings could explain why twin studies show that homosexuality runs in families, but no "gay gene" can be found, Rice said. In identical twins, there's about a 20 percent chance that if one twin is gay, the other will be too. If genetic change were responsible for homosexuality, you'd expect a much higher match, Rice said. Epigenetics, however, can explain the heritability without the need for a specific genetic change.
The hypothesis could be tested by examining epigenetic marks in parents of kids with gay versus straight offspring, Rice said. There are, of course, concerns that this knowledge could be used by parents who want to avoid gay offspring, Rice said, but that concern already exists around certain hormonal conditions in utero, which are known to contribute to an increased chance of offspring being lesbians.
"That cat's already out of the bag," Rice said. He added that an understanding of the biological underpinnings of homosexuality could help emphasize that same-sex behavior is not "unnatural."
"In fact, it's a major part of the natural world," Rice said. Fourteen percent of Western gulls raise chicks in female-female pairs, he pointed out. And 8 percent of male sheep show zero interest in fertile ewes, but get sexually excited by other rams. ]...
MAMA K please educate me on the problem. I do not see what you are saying as far as me being part of the problem please make it plain.
To come to the table without scripture is like coming without religious convictions. And if that becomes the case then why bother with religion to guide us at all. Religion then might as well then be disbanded.
@charlesesmall
You said, "please educate me on the problem."
I see a few problems with your position.
First, you seem to imply that being gay is somehow wrong. It isn't. Some religions consider it wrong, but they do so without a basis in fact. It is condemned strictly based on a thousands of years old fairy tale.
Second, sin is a religious concept. It's a violation of a religious rule or law. Religious rules and laws only apply to those that follow that religion (in the US anyway, where we enjoy freedom of religion). Those that don't follow your religion can't break its rules as they don't apply to them.
So, even if, in your religion, homosexuality is a sin, you don't get to condemn or deny equal access to anyone because of it.
Quite simple, Charles. Please correct me if I misunderstood, but your references to "Every sin is a choice" and "I hope they are able to truly hear God and the Spirit of the Lord speak to them and not there flesh" is something we hear all too often from those who believe hom-ose-xuality is a sin. I am simply pointing out that, like religion coming to terms with Galileo, it must either comes to terms with current knowledge about ho-mose-xuality, or religion will continue to fade into oblivion for failing to do so.
Your pseudointellectual rant reveals an arrogance only seen in people who believe that their limited experience overrides the knowledge of billions who have had spiritual experiences. Perhaps, like the blind or deaf, you lack an ability to see the spiritual world or you are too immature to recognize the spiritual.
"Your pseudointellectual rant reveals an arrogance only seen in people who believe that their limited experience overrides the knowledge of billions who have had spiritual experiences. Perhaps, like the blind or deaf, you lack an ability to see the spiritual world or you are too immature to recognize the spiritual."
No, you just don't have any facts to backup your prejudice and bigotry so you have to post crap.
Sue sounds very Austintatious. Had any good dreams lately, Sue? LOL
Good. Souts don't need the Southern "Bastids" support anyway.. maybe scouting will become fun again and not subject to judgment by hypocrite, racist, rednecks, Holier than thou "Christians"!
Scouts will now only be more "full of the devil". You call that a good thing?...
How is removing the haters, more full of the devil? It seems to me they would be more Christ-like.
My personal opinion is the BSA will be better off in the long run. They will be free to be open, and diversity will be welcome.
I'm neither gay nor Baptist. It's about time the BSA separated themselves from religious organizations.
I like the way the Helena, AL preacher picks and chooses his bible versus. The bible also says it is OK for a man to lie with another man. Then again, the old testament (Deuteronomy) says I can't get into heaven if I have crushed testicles.
My point is that the bible is full of crap. As Mark Twain once said, "The bible has noble poetry in it... some good morals and a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of a thousand lies".
Scott in Texas… God moves out. Lucifer moves in. And people like you call that a good thing. Only an evil person would feel that way. Which is not surprising since you're getting your info from a false preacher (note, there is no such bible scripture that okays a man to be with a man). Even worse, on the one hand you attempt to use the bible to justify your evil actions. And then on the other hand, you say the bible is full of crap. So which is it? Sounds to me like you're the one who's full of it. You're so ignorant and devoid of truth, you don't know whether you're going or coming…
Nice Try,
My imaginary friend says your imaginary friend is imaginary. And he should know, being imaginary himself...
@try, do you actually believe in the devil ?
It would help if you knew what you were talking about the items you referenced are not biblicaly accurate
Hey, Nice Try
I'm not using the bible to justify anything. I'm using the bible to discredit the justification used against the BSA.
Check out this blog. It's not mine, but it is written by a man with far more wisdom and insight than either of us will ever have. He always has a special Sunday edition.
folioolio.blogspot.com
@Nice Try,
You continue to show your arrogance along with your ignorance. Taking pleasure in knowing others are going to hell? Does it get you all excited to know that people will be burning for eternity? You are a sick individual, just like many other "Christians" who follow a fairy tale god and gloat about how superior you are to others. I for one hope that you are reincarnated as a pig, because it is only befitting.
It would help if you knew what you were talking about the items you referenced are not biblicaly accurate
Deuteronomy 23:1. Do you people ever read the Bible?
Nice Try, the Bible was written by men. They were free to put in any prejudices they wanted to, and free to put in any behavior they tacitly approved of as being approved by God. This is patently obvious to all but the truly deluded. Sorry.
Translation… Stop telling lies. At no time did I say I was happy about people going to hell...
The problem is that until they change their remaining anti-gay and anti-atheist policies they aren't going to get many new recruits out of the millions of US families who have already chosen not to send their kids to this discriminatory club.
Well, that's a childish move. Seriously because the BSA "Head Office" changed the policy the SBC are going to punish the kids? What a way to show great leadership... **rolls eyes**. And what's even sadder, it's not just the Churches, it's parents as well. We've already lost some scouts because of the policy change. And these boys need guidance more than anything because of a unstable family life (yes unstable from a Christian family, go fig.) or other situations. Guess they'll go back to burning trash bins and hanging out with the wrong crowd. Shameful...just shameful. Once again politics overshadow the needs of our youth. Shameful...just shameful.
F.Y.I I'm a Christian and a Scout Mom.
billfitt-
you certainly are a bitter old man,
I'm not old, and I'll never let you taste me, so you'll never know if I taste bitter or not. Incidentally, does your BF taste bitter when he makes you clean him off after he's through?
I lose out again. How wonderful for a gay to be in the same tent with several guys for the night. Now if they would let me join the girl scouts I would get the same excitement.
Obvious troll is obvious.
Thanks for self identifying as a pedophile.
Really. There's a point. Why not allow the heteros bring their girlfriends on camp-out too? Just merge the Girls Scouts with the Boys. Why not?