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May 31st, 2013
04:19 PM ET
Baptists plan exodus from Boy ScoutsBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - For Southern Baptist pastor Tim Reed, it was Scripture versus the Scouts. “God’s word explicitly says homosexuality is a choice, a sin,” said Reed, pastor of First Baptist Church of Gravel Ridge in Jacksonville, Arkansas. So when the Boy Scouts of America voted to lift its ban on openly gay youths on May 24, Reed said the church had no choice but to cut its charter with Troop 542. “It’s not a hate thing here,” Reed told CNN affiliate Fox 16. “It’s a moral stance we must take as a Southern Baptist church.” Southern Baptist leaders say Reed is not alone. Baptist churches sponsor nearly 4,000 Scout units representing more than 100,000 youths, according to the Boy Scouts of America. That number could drop precipitously. The Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s largest Protestant denomination, will soon urge its 45,000 congregations and 16 million members to cut ties with the Scouts, according to church leaders. The denomination will vote on nonbinding but influential resolutions during a convention June 11-12 in Houston. “There’s a 100% chance that there will be a resolution about disaffiliation at the convention,” said Richard Land, the outgoing head of the Southern Baptists’ Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, “and a 100% chance that 99% of people will vote for it.” “Southern Baptists are going to be leaving the Boy Scouts en masse,” Land continued. Roger “Sing” Oldham, a spokesman for the Southern Baptist Convention, emphasized that local congregations make their own decision on the Scouts. But he, too, said he expects Baptist delegates, which the church calls “messengers,” to voice their disagreement with the BSA's decision to allow gay youths. “With this policy change, the Boy Scouts’ values are contradictory to the basic values of our local churches,” Oldham said. Several religious groups with strong Scouting ties support the new policy. “We have heard from both those who support the amended policy and those who would have preferred it would not have changed,” said BSA spokesman Deron Smith. Faith-based organizations charter more than 70% of Scout chapters, providing meeting space and leadership, according to the BSA. “There have been some organizations that have decided not to renew their charters with Scouting," said Smith, "but we can’t quantify the impact of the amended policy." The National Jewish Committee on Scouting, the United Church of Christ, the Episcopal Church, the Unitarian Universalist Association and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which sponsors more Scout units than any other faith, all endorsed the change. The National Catholic Committee on Scouting, which is run with oversight from a bishop, said Thursday that allowing gay youths in the Scouts does not conflict with church teaching. Each bishop will decide whether or not to allow churches in his diocese to charter Scout units, the committee added. “We ask that Catholic Scouters and chartered organization heads not rush to judgment,” said Edward Martin, chairman of the National Catholic Committee on Scouting. But the Rev. Derek Lappe, pastor of the Our Lady Star of the Sea Catholic Church in Bremerton, Washington, has already made up his mind. “I do not feel that it is possible for us to live out, and to teach, the authentic truth about human sexuality within the confines of the Boy Scout’s new policy,” said Lappe. The priest told CNN affiliate FOX16 that his parish will part ways with the Scouts and develop its own programs. There may soon be an alternative to the Scouts for social conservatives like Lappe. John Stemberger, founder of On My Honor, a group that opposed the Scouts’ change in policy, plans to convene conservatives in Louisville, Kentucky, in June to consider forming a new Scout-like group, which could be up and running by the end of 2013. “Churches and Scoutmasters are looking for leadership and direction,” said Stemberg, an attorney in Orlando, Florida. A number of conservative religious denominations already sponsor their own groups. For instance, the Southern Baptists have the Royal Ambassadors, an explicitly Christian program founded in 1908 for boys in first through sixth grade. (A similar group called Challengers equips older boys in “mission education.”) The name comes from the New Testament, in which the Apostle Paul tells Christians to be “ambassadors for Christ.” The estimated 31,000 Royal Ambassadors pledge “ to become a well-informed, responsible follower of Christ; to have a Christlike concern for all people; to learn how to carry the message of Christ around the world; to work with others in sharing Christ; and to keep myself clean and healthy in mind and body." While not as outdoorsy as the Boy Scouts, Ambassadors do camp and play sports, said Land, who was a member of the group during the 1950s. But instead of merit badges for archery and bird study, young Ambassadors earn patches for memorizing Bible verses and mission work. Southern Baptists said they are preparing for a surge of interest in the Royal Ambassadors at their upcoming convention in Houston. “We really have an opportunity here to strengthen our RA programs,” the Rev. Ernest Easley, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee, said in a sermon last Sunday, “and to get the boys in a program where they’re going to be protected, where there’s a high moral standard and where they will have an opportunity to learn about camping, missions, evangelism in the local church.” soundoff (10,821 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 Next » |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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I'm so pleased to hear all the Baptist haters condemning the actions of the church and saying "good riddance" and "BSA will be better off" – hearing all this and knowing that you will all join in and support the "New and Improved Scouting" by offering your time, money, buildings and resources to this worthy cause... and fill any void left behind by the church.
Actually, no. I really believe all of you spewing your self-righteous opinions will simply vent your garbage and disappear, leaving the BSA to flounder on it's own. Not like ANY of YOU would put your money where your mouth is... I also believe that the BSA chose to leave the church, not the other way around. Unfortunately, they will now have to look for support from people like you, and will probably die because of it.
PUT UP OR SHUT UP. Support Scouting monetarily and physically, or GO AWAY!
The church that sponsors the most Boy Scout troops are the Mormons – they support the policy change.
Wrong. Ex-troopleaders disgusted by the baptists for the last decade–and what poor scouts their children made, truly–are returning, my father being one. So stick that in your presumptuous pipe. Like a hateful intolerant, UN-AMERICAN CANCER that just vaccinated itself out of existence within the scouts. Good riddance. No one minded their religion, genius, its their INTOLERANCE OF OTHERS people minded, so get off your victim-righteous horse. You lie about the details, and what is really being despised. But that is just typical, now, isn't it?
steve, the problem with your argument is that the scouts still discriminate against gays and atheists. This was one small step but certainly not yet enough to be deserving of support. The lesbian cub scout leaders kicked out a few years ago would still be kicked out, not even because the BSA thought them a physical threat, but because they did, and continue to, see them as a lacking morality.
Top 20 Bible Passages to Use Against Fundamentalists
http://www.ranker.com/list/top-20-bible-passages-to-use-against-fundamentalists/ivana-wynn
Please read the referenced article before commenting:
From the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”
"Most scientists who study human se-xuality agree that gay people are born that way. But that consensus raises an evolutionary puzzle: How do genes associated with h-omose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?"
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/evolution/Gay-gene-deconstructed.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What was the denomination of that church in Mississippi that refused to marry a couple because they were black? Oh that's right, Baptist. When did that happen? Oh yeah, 2012. The 21st century.
Oh but they're so Holy aren't they? You know what they say "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions!"
colin, yo'ure about as ignorant as one could be.
nice use of the reply function jordy
Colin is a closet case. A very angry one.
Where does it say that Americans must be diverse??? We can be selective in choosing our friends without being condemned and told to leave the country. Having standards of behavior is a good thing. Forget the leftist propaganda.
As long as the "standards of behavior" match yours, right? You are the definition of a self-righteous bigot.
Answer: on every penny you spend: "Out of many, one."
@carolyn rice
You said, "Where does it say that Americans must be diverse???"
Nowhere. But it's much nicer if it is.
You said, "We can be selective in choosing our friends without being condemned and told to leave the country."
Yup, you can pick your friends. You can also pick your nose, but you may be reminded that you aren't going to put the booger under the couch without a reprimand. Undesirable behavior is frowned upon.
You said, "Having standards of behavior is a good thing."
True, and the Southern Baptists don't seem to have any decent ones. Hence the commentary and criticism.
You said, "Forget the leftist propaganda."
Reality has a liberal bias. You are free to remain ignorant. You are free to show it too, but don't expect to be exempt from criticism.
good riddance. The BSA shouldn't be seen as a opportunity to indoctrinate kids on religious dogma anyway.
for God and country should read for odd and country
The Boy Scouts is NOT a Christian organization; it is a non-secular organization.
Sammy; The net loss or gain by the BSA or SBC or the issues of gays will be interesting to see. But regardless of the outcome, everyone can join a group that best suits their family values. Now I'm 100% pro gay rights and thus support this BSA policy change, but members of the BSA have to decide if they do. There are already BSA type orgainzations being created by church groups.
So I see no need for anger on either side here. Just join the group that best fits your family values or for those that don't have boys, donate to the group that you support. No need to hate those that have a different POV (even if I feel that POV is completely misguided).
You ignore the fact that the scouts are not a normal private organization but one supported by government donations of goods, services, public spaces and a special set of dictates that protect the organization from being impacted by the non-discrimination laws that impact other groups. Sever all those ties and people will care a lot less...and the scouts will be turfed out of the public schools in which they meet in towns across the country.
I contend we are both intollerant, I just believe that one fewer societal behavior is proper than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible societal behaviors as being legitimate , you will understand why I dismiss your pet one(encouraging ga>ys in the boy scouts)." – Rephen Stoberts
Oh look Chad's lying and being deceptive again....
Chad, we actually agree on something – in so far as we all have different views of what is and what is not acceptable social behavior.
BTW Chad, this is atheist Colin. It looks like there are two or three "colin" posters active right now.
bull sh it
So Chad, how do you explain, on the subject of homosexual behavior, the disparity between different Christian beliefs on the subject? How can there be an "objective moral truth" about the matter when one sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one (over 4,000,000 members) in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage?
Chad and Really-O? – a dialogue (fictional, just barely)
====
Chad: I have a 1980 Yugo that can hit 200 mph.
Really-O?: I find that hard to believe.
Chad: What would you consider necessary and sufficient evidence that my Yugo can go 200 mph?
Really-O?: Let's go out to a track and, under controlled conditions, with anyone interested in attendance, get your 1980 Yugo up to a speed of 200 mph. That would do it.
Chad: Well, look at this...I have a Yugoslavian magazine in which this guy says his 1980 Yugo went 200 mpg. You see, it says, "And as we passed the hour of noon, we traveled two hundred miles"...or something like that...I had to have it translated into French, and then Spanish, and then Old English and then modern English, but see, right there, plain as day.
Really-O?: Sorry, but that doesn't suffice as necessary or sufficient evidence that your Yugo can go 200 mph. I want to observe your Yugo hit 200 mph.
Chad: I've driven my Yugo 200 mph...I already told you that. You expect me to do it again on demand?
Really-O?: Well, yes. You asked what would suffice as necessary and sufficient evidence and I told you.
Chad: Well, the speed limit is 65.
Really-O?: What does the speed limit have to do with whether or not your Yugo can hit 200 mph?
Chad: You clearly have not investigated Yugos. You need to spend some time reading the Yugo manual and this 1980 Yugoslavian magazine. Then we can have a serious conversation about the issue.
Really-O?: Chad, you asked what would suffice as necessary and sufficient evidence that your 1980 Yugo can hit 200 mph and I told you, clearly and concisely. I don't know what more I can do.
Chad: Well, you see, the real question is, "What would you say if I told you my radio goes really loud?"
====
Gee, Chad, I guess those silly imaginary dialogues are fun.
For context, please refer to these threads:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/29/poll-america-losing-its-religion/comment-page-71 @ June 1, 2013 at 4:39 pm
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/29/poll-america-losing-its-religion/comment-page-69 @ May 31, 2013 at 6:33 pm
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/29/poll-america-losing-its-religion/comment-page-67 @ May 31, 2013 at 6:01 pm
Chad always slips into my identi.ty when he does stuff.
Is there anyone on this forum, who agrees with the BSA decision, that sees it as "encouraging gays in the boy scouts" as Chad puts it? I, for one, see the decision as one that allows all boys to join and participate in the BSA.
@mama k "how do you explain, on the subject of homosexual behavior, the disparity between different Christian beliefs on the subject? How can there be an "objective moral truth" about the matter when one sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one (over 4,000,000 members) in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage?"
@Chad "you need to understand what objective moral truth means..
objective moral truth means that there exists an objective right and wrong regardless of what someone thinks.
Notice: "objective moral truth" doesnt mean "that truth that all Christians agree is true"
see the difference?
The question is, what IS the objective moral truth, not whether or not one exists.
@Chad "what would you have said to Jesus Himself? What would you have demanded from him?
@Really-O "The same thing I would demand of the god of Israel...essentially, "Put up or shut up". Actually, provide necessary and sufficient evidence that you are in some way unique (i.e. the savior / son of god) or admit that you are just a moral philosopher."
@Chad "A. so, that approach was completely rejected by Jesus Himself (with one exception) 2000 years ago, do you think He has changed His mind since then?
B. The exception was the resurrection of Jesus
If you had met Jesus Himself as physically resurrected, would you have believed it?
The Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tested him by asking him to show them a sign from heaven.
2 He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’ 3 and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.[a] 4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away.– Matthew 16
Chad truth is.......do you have any morals ?
Current search on Bing chadie ..........bookmark update chad........3rd one from top of page.
RDFRS: When Christians become a 'hated minority'
http://www.richarddawkins.net/.../5/5/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority
11,000,000 results Any time
Splat Chad
Chad: "If you had met Jesus Himself as physically resurrected, would you have believed it?"
Nope...not without necessary and sufficient empirical evidence – just as you, and I, disregard the miracle claims of Sathya Sai Baba, even though thousands of his followers swear they are true. You've been duped, Chad.
@Chad: "If you had met Jesus Himself as physically resurrected, would you have believed it?"
@Really-O? "Nope...not without necessary and sufficient empirical evidence"
@Chad "wow, you wouldnt consider a resurrected Jesus "necessary and sufficient empirical evidence"
guess that is consistent though. Atheists such as yourself are absolutely committed to anti-theism regardless of the evidence."
"wow, you wouldnt consider a resurrected Jesus "necessary and sufficient empirical evidence"
I can see at least one "resurrected Elvis" on every block of the Vegas strip. Proves nothing. And you don't even have that...all you have is a story from a musty old book...nothing else.
...where's your necessary and sufficient evidence, Chad? Huh?
...bring on the flailing!
Chad: "Atheists such as yourself are absolutely committed to anti-theism regardless of the evidence."
Nice straw man.
Chad
Do you consider your se xual orientation to be a "societal behavior"?
Being a Sodomite is a choice. My dad touched me up for years and I didn't become gay.
And your dad probably wasn't gay either. Just a pedophile.
Problem was dad couldn't find the pr ick because i was one all over
Make no mistake about it pedophiles are qu eers
Remaining ignorant is a choice. Living in a single wide trailer is a choice. Living in the backwoods of Alabama is a choice. Being a religious bigot is a choice also. Did I forget anything?
Hey, Colin. Your mom wants you to stop lying about your dad. She also wants you to get a job and some friends, or at least move out of the basement. It really embarrasses her when people ask her about you and she has to tell them that all you do is troll on the internet.
Your anger and pain are understandable but it would be a real crime to let it blight your whole life. If you haven't already, you really should see someone. I'll pray for you.
Colin
"Make no mistake about it pedophiles are qu eers"
Even all the dads who diddle their little daughters? How do you figure?
Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone.
@Jemaka
You said, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone."
I'm without sin. As a matter of fact, I'm incapable of sin, but I prefer not to throw stones.
The most important role of the Boy Scouts in American society is to bring boys from different back grounds together in an enviorment with shared goals, learning, and codes of conduct.
If the Baptists want to retreat from that, to damn bad.
Maybe when Southern Baptists learn what it is like to be marginalized, they light will go on for them.
....but it was the BSA that chose to change their code of conduct and thus alienate themselves from the church.
I was raised in a small Southern Baptist town in Louisiana. I had an uncle who went to the Baptist church but thought black people didn't have a soul like white people. I had an uncle who went to the Baptist church and had been married 40+ years but his religion didn't stop him from having a long fling with a widow 30+ years younger than him. I've known too many Baptists who went to church on Sunday but discriminated against blacks every day of the week, would thump the bible on Sunday but cheat their neighbor on Monday, would go to church on Sunday and gossip about their neighbor before the day was over. Yep! Even the preacher finally had to leave the church as he had a thing for high school girls. I married a Catholic and I've seen how they work and they are similar. So, I think God is going to be awfully busy on judgement day giving the bible thumpers what they have coming to them.
EVERY religion has good and bad! That doesn't mean everyone IN them is bad since all religions are made up of humans. To say otherwise is juvenile and ignorant.
THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANK YOU. I cannot thank you enough for your comment
Jeff, I hear you loud and clear...and it's not just in your State, it's in every church, in every state, in every denomination. What's more, I was raised in the Baptist church, baptized in the Baptist church and I disagree with them on most issues. Most are a bunch of bigots that are taught Man's Laws, not God's. They teach hate, when Jesus actually tried to preach and sell not judging others and not casting the first stone and not plucking the thorn from another's eye before you cleared your own. Boy Scouts made a great and proper decision and if the Baptist want to leave, let them go with your blessing. You don't need further blackmail.
is there really any reason for Gay and Children to be used in the same sentence.....for anyone's agenda? Pro or Con?
Some children are gay, or will be gay when they get older.
Maybe when people recognize that, gay teen suicide rates will drop.
Perhaps you should educate yourself on the topic before you start spewing about agendas. You could start by talking to some actual homosexuals. They could tell you how they knew, even very young, that they were "different" from other children.
Then you could go on line and google "gay teen suicide", and educate yourself about how bullying and marginalization is causing children to kill themselves.
Maybe then you would give a second thought to your own agenda. Maybe you would start being a compassionate, decent person.
@ get real, so there are gay couples that adopt children. There are gay children that grow up in straight homes, there are gay parents of straight children...
Why yes, it's very easy to use gay and children in the same sentence. Thank you for pointing out how natural it sounds!
Very well put.
Is there any reason to close your eyes to the reality that children know when they are gay?
Do you remember when you realized when you were attracted to the opposite sex? (Assuming you are.) That's about the same age gay kids realize they are attracted to the same sex. And it is totally natural.
The Baptists have the right to believe whatever they want, regardless of how wrong it is.
So Baptists can't support gay scouts because of what the bible says about gays. OK. Fair enough. THe Baptists should also support slavery, since it is mentioned, and not disparigingly, in the bible. And they should support the killing of unfaithful wives for the same reason.
Good riddance to bad rubbish. I'm for the BSA getting rid of all religious influence from its organization. Either that or stop supporting them with tax dollars.
Stupid comment! It was the RELIGIOUS element that made the Scouts the success it is......or was till the PC brigade set themselves up as an offshoot of the Judicial department!
in this hi-tech ultra quick sophisticated age, it is easy to forget or dismiss the reality of the spiritual world surrounding us, even inside of us. lil fatso sambo is a clear and flagrant example of the kind of devil roaming free right under our noses and under the radar of evil. she is one very sick, very disturbed and extremely dangerous piece of infectious waste.
Tell you what...
You can check under your bed for devils.
The rest of us are going to keep living in the 21st centry.
kfc is also sweeping past the radar. they are now cloning boneless chickns. just saw 2 more ads in last hour.
they need to be reported to the authorities.
Ironic. I feel exactly the same about you.
Thank you faith. Great post, bless your heart.
The KFC garbage is nothing more than a rumor that was started when KFC changed there name from Kentucky Fried Chicken to KFC. Some troll somewhere is cackling hysterically to think that there is some gullible dimwit who still believes this, let alone continues to spread the rumor.
If there was any truth to it, which there isn't, one would have to be pretty dim to think it hasn't been thoroughly investigated, which it already has. This poster looks dimmer by the day by continuing to post this laughable rumor.
I don't understand how a church could justify leaving this great organization for kids because gay children and youths are not excluded. Gay children/youths go to the same schools as everyone else, play on the same sports teams, eat in the same cafeterias and live in the same neighborhoods. What difference does it make if they also go canoeing and learn outdoor cooking together? Are they frightened that straight kids may become friends with gay kids? Jesus befriended those who were on the fringes of society, whether by their own doing or not.
MASSIVE Congratulations to the Baptist church for standing by their principles! Most people are so lacking in intelligence they follow the herd whatever they do. God bless the Baptists – you have backbone.
I am Baptist.
As an eagle scout I say good riddance... there's no room for hate and bigotry in the boy scouts.
Might you also be a qu eer?
I used to be a qu eer, but now I'm straight. I've been straight for almoat a year now.
Ah – this Colin must be Douglas...
"almoat" a year? Did you dig a trench around your silly ass and fill it with water?
Well said, Andrew.
You say that, but you are saying quite clearly here that you hate people who stand by their principles. Make your mind up, Sweetheart!
I find the Scouts only mildly hateful know...will the Baptists set up a more Biblically-aligned hate camping group for my kids to join?