May 31st, 2013
04:19 PM ET
Baptists plan exodus from Boy Scouts
By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
(CNN) - For Southern Baptist pastor Tim Reed, it was Scripture versus the Scouts.
“God’s word explicitly says homosexuality is a choice, a sin,” said Reed, pastor of First Baptist Church of Gravel Ridge in Jacksonville, Arkansas.
So when the Boy Scouts of America voted to lift its ban on openly gay youths on May 24, Reed said the church had no choice but to cut its charter with Troop 542.
“It’s not a hate thing here,” Reed told CNN affiliate Fox 16. “It’s a moral stance we must take as a Southern Baptist church.”
Southern Baptist leaders say Reed is not alone.
Baptist churches sponsor nearly 4,000 Scout units representing more than 100,000 youths, according to the Boy Scouts of America.
That number could drop precipitously.
The Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s largest Protestant denomination, will soon urge its 45,000 congregations and 16 million members to cut ties with the Scouts, according to church leaders.
The denomination will vote on nonbinding but influential resolutions during a convention June 11-12 in Houston.
“There’s a 100% chance that there will be a resolution about disaffiliation at the convention,” said Richard Land, the outgoing head of the Southern Baptists’ Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, “and a 100% chance that 99% of people will vote for it.”
“Southern Baptists are going to be leaving the Boy Scouts en masse,” Land continued.
Roger “Sing” Oldham, a spokesman for the Southern Baptist Convention, emphasized that local congregations make their own decision on the Scouts.
But he, too, said he expects Baptist delegates, which the church calls “messengers,” to voice their disagreement with the BSA's decision to allow gay youths.
“With this policy change, the Boy Scouts’ values are contradictory to the basic values of our local churches,” Oldham said.
Several religious groups with strong Scouting ties support the new policy.
“We have heard from both those who support the amended policy and those who would have preferred it would not have changed,” said BSA spokesman Deron Smith.
Faith-based organizations charter more than 70% of Scout chapters, providing meeting space and leadership, according to the BSA.
“There have been some organizations that have decided not to renew their charters with Scouting," said Smith, "but we can’t quantify the impact of the amended policy."
The National Jewish Committee on Scouting, the United Church of Christ, the Episcopal Church, the Unitarian Universalist Association and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which sponsors more Scout units than any other faith, all endorsed the change.
The National Catholic Committee on Scouting, which is run with oversight from a bishop, said Thursday that allowing gay youths in the Scouts does not conflict with church teaching. Each bishop will decide whether or not to allow churches in his diocese to charter Scout units, the committee added.
“We ask that Catholic Scouters and chartered organization heads not rush to judgment,” said Edward Martin, chairman of the National Catholic Committee on Scouting.
But the Rev. Derek Lappe, pastor of the Our Lady Star of the Sea Catholic Church in Bremerton, Washington, has already made up his mind.
“I do not feel that it is possible for us to live out, and to teach, the authentic truth about human sexuality within the confines of the Boy Scout’s new policy,” said Lappe.
The priest told CNN affiliate FOX16 that his parish will part ways with the Scouts and develop its own programs.
There may soon be an alternative to the Scouts for social conservatives like Lappe.
John Stemberger, founder of On My Honor, a group that opposed the Scouts’ change in policy, plans to convene conservatives in Louisville, Kentucky, in June to consider forming a new Scout-like group, which could be up and running by the end of 2013.
“Churches and Scoutmasters are looking for leadership and direction,” said Stemberg, an attorney in Orlando, Florida.
A number of conservative religious denominations already sponsor their own groups.
For instance, the Southern Baptists have the Royal Ambassadors, an explicitly Christian program founded in 1908 for boys in first through sixth grade. (A similar group called Challengers equips older boys in “mission education.”)
The name comes from the New Testament, in which the Apostle Paul tells Christians to be “ambassadors for Christ.”
The estimated 31,000 Royal Ambassadors pledge “ to become a well-informed, responsible follower of Christ; to have a Christlike concern for all people; to learn how to carry the message of Christ around the world; to work with others in sharing Christ; and to keep myself clean and healthy in mind and body."
While not as outdoorsy as the Boy Scouts, Ambassadors do camp and play sports, said Land, who was a member of the group during the 1950s. But instead of merit badges for archery and bird study, young Ambassadors earn patches for memorizing Bible verses and mission work.
Southern Baptists said they are preparing for a surge of interest in the Royal Ambassadors at their upcoming convention in Houston.
“We really have an opportunity here to strengthen our RA programs,” the Rev. Ernest Easley, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee, said in a sermon last Sunday, “and to get the boys in a program where they’re going to be protected, where there’s a high moral standard and where they will have an opportunity to learn about camping, missions, evangelism in the local church.”
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About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
I hope this lwads to bankruptcy for the Boy Scouts. The Boy Scouts are suppose to teach high morals based on religion and accepting gays is not following that moral code.
I think the Boy Scouts are in a better position than you are to decide what THEIR moral code should entail.
No organization should be based on religion when they are not affiliated with the church. Boy Scouts don't go into the woods to camp around a fire doing prayer; they go into the woods to learn survival techniques that do not relate to religion.
If the Boy Scouts used the Bible as their moral compass, the boys would probably end up in prison. The Boy Scouts are better than that.
Reese... Lucifer will find some way to prop it up. The BSA is fully under Lucifer's control by now and he'll never pass up an opportunity to turn little boys into gays...
Maybe it's time to keep the morals and leave the religion behind.
Skip the hypocrisy. If you REALLY cared about sinners you'd be trying to help the HUGE number of Christian adulterers.
Jesus freaker.... Just because you hate God and everything associated with God, that don't mean everybody does...
Ooops. The ONLY people who hate God are believers. Talk to your fellow believers.
The BSA has never been a Christian Organization.
There have been Buddhist Scouts since the 1920's and they do not even believe in a Supreme Being.
There are also many Christian Churches that have Gays in their ministry. The Methodists are second only to the Mormons in BSA members.
May not bankrupt them, but it will seriously dent their membership levels. The BSA was being blackmailed by some of its largest contributors at the National level, e.g. AT&T to go fаggadilleicous. National caved.
The BSA has been losing members for many years. The "Hоmоѕеxual Appeasement Act of 2013" will only hurt it even more. We, Boy Scouts, went through a similar appeasement back in 1972 while I was working on my Eagle Scout and Quartermaster Sea Scout. The komrade left was having a fit because, according to the komrade left, we weren't doing enough for the inner city kids. That one hurt us and it took us eight years to refocus on our core characteristics, outdoors stuff, not inner city stuff. Expect in the next couple of years for the BSA to totally cave to the hоmоѕеxuals by allowing hоmоѕеxual predators, errrr I mean "leaders" to join.
Nice Try, somebody pointing out the hypocrisy of some church attendees does not automatically make them a God hater...your persecution complex is strong today.
Observer… I don't know any Christian adulterers. And even if I did, the Christian adulterers already have their help and they know where their help is at. It is people like you who are truly lost. You know, if people like you defended God even have as much as you defended Lucifer, then even someone like you might be saved. Furthermore, a hypocrite is someone who loves to point out the flaws in others but is unable to see the flaws in themselves. I see no bigger hypocrite than you…
Tamsym… Except when they ARE a God hater. And why are you defending the Devil? Do you hate God too? For your information, the scriptures clearly state that anyone who is a friend of God's enemy is a "hater of God"…
Reese; I highly doubt you will get your wish. The BSA took a long time to make this decision. They used this time to do the necessary impact studies and also to reach out to other religious groups to ensure they would support the decision. The vast majority do, even Mormons and the Catholic Church.
In addition the BSA will not get more corporate sponsors. The BSA will survive. There might be a short term impact to membership but in the long term this change will benefit them. Sorry but hating on them isn't going to destroy them.
"Observer… I don't know any Christian adulterers. And even if I did, the Christian adulterers already have their help and they know where their help is at. It is people like you who are truly lost. You know, if people like you defended God even have as much as you defended Lucifer,"
I never defended Lucifer since there is ZERO proof he exists. Read before commenting next time.
The Bible says that anyone divorcing and remarrying is an adulterer. How naïve can you be to claim you don't know any?.
Read a Bible someday. Skip the hypocrisy.
If you divorce your spouse and marry another you have committed adultery:
Mark 10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
Mark 10:12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
Since churches like the SBC will use their chapel to bless 2nd, 3rd, etc marriages all sorts of people are adulterers with the churches blessing.
If you look at a woman with lust you have committed adultery:
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Unless he is Gay, what man hasn't?
Observer… You stated " I never defended Lucifer since there is ZERO proof he exists."...
Answer: Then you're dumber than you look. If you're not defending God then you're defending Lucifer. And you're defending Lucifer all the time – even now...
As for the rest of what you said, it's irrelevant. Since you freely admit you don't even believe in God, you're not qualified to have an opinion. And even if you did have one, such an opinion is not worth a thing...
Speaking of being dumber than you look, tell us all about unicorns and talking animals.
They aren't called Boy Blabtist Scouts now are they. Good luck filling the building they are vacating with decent human beings after this Mr Self-righteous.
JOregon… You quote plenty of scriptures but have no idea what those scriptures mean. Do you even know what the words "lust after her" means? Not all men have done that, so don't judge all men by yourself. Secondly, most of those scriptures you quoted were directed at Israel of the Old Testament and were not meant for us in the New Testament…
I am quite sure that is what he is railing about. I am also quite sure that he has never met any Girl Scouts/leaders in his life, except those unfortunate enough to knock of his door to sell cookies.
Guess you forgot that the Ten Commandments are in the Old Testament and support for slavery is in both.
I'm finding this "Nice Try" character highly entertaining.
Like Westboro, without meaning to, he is highlighting the self-righteous, hateful, dismissive arrogance and ignorance which, unfortunately, makes all Christians look bad.
Floyd… I only make the devil look bad. If you're of the devil, then yes, you'll feel intimidated. If you're of God then you'll rejoice...
Matthew 5:28 was Jesus expanding on the Jewish laws to show the hypocrisy of the religious leaders.
You find that same hypocrisy in the SBC today.
Verses about Hom ose xuality were OT verses aimed at the Jews, especially those in Romans.
Nice Try though.
So long, farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, goodnight...
Good, because American's are diverse and people who can't accept that should get the heck out of organizations that do. You drag them down.
There is no greater diversity of people on the planet than those in hell. Feel free to join them...
Oh, yeah, here's Mr. Nice Try again, still telling you how the Lord of Love has got big plans for frying you forever — and still apparently incapable of seeing the irony.
It's the gays draging down the high morals of this great nation. It's a sick and disgusting life style to think that sodomy is a way of life with another of the same gender.
If hell exists, it's probably full of Christian hypocrites. There's far more of them than there are gays.
Jesus's ministry was all about the marginalized; he was inclusive of everyone. He would be appalled at what is happening to Christianity in his name, Nice Try.
Oh noes! I will be toasty in hades!
Tamsym… Jesus's ministry was not inclusive of the devil. So learn some truth. Many people do things in his name. But that don't mean they're of God, nor does God even recognize it...
and the bible also says you are supposed to murder everyone who works on the sabbath?
when are "christians" going to stop promoting hate?
When are gays going to stop hating Christians and trying to ruin their organizations and disrupting peace for religious people? Why can't we live parallel in America? If you remember, the gays started this junk.
Anthony are you really that ignorant of what religion has done to discriminate those they perceive as evil or different?
Bobble... The bible also says that people like you are not saved (and are bound for the lake). If I were you I'd be more concerned about that...
When Christians stop cherry picking which parts of the Bible are ok to recite, and not forget all the other stuff that they casually disregard on a daily basis, maybe people would respect you more.
I would debate you all day. Since you have the immaturity of a two year old to come to a forum full of religious topic debate with a name like "I am God", although you clearly am not a supporter of Christianity, I refuse to debate with you till you can mature up.
But I will say. I am aware of what religion has done good and bad. That's the point of my comment. Christians if they were following the teachings of Christ would clearly show respect for other people that do not share their belief. Therefore the Alabama Church is wrong in the actions it has taken. I would not have done what the Alabama Pastor has done. Its closed the door for a great chance of witnessing. It's an absolutely careless decision by that Pastor.
As for some gays and some gay supporters, why do they hate religion so bad? Because we disagree with them? But if we disagree with them, they call us haters. So immature.
I think if Gays and their supporters would chill out, many religious people would chill out and we could talk. But just like most gay friends I have, the slightest hint of my disagree of their life style turns them in to childish two year old brats screaming "hater!" because I disagree with them.
The rebuttal you had to my comment wasn't forum worthy. Learn to debate. Change your name. Grow up. And face me.
I hope people go back and read all your replies.. they are simply hilarious. You sound like a 12 year old trying to have a debate with adults.. and whenever you don't like a scripture presented, your only defense it that the scripture is taken out of place, or not intended for everyone, but just a few. You actually believe that you are the only one to understand, and you are the only one with the answers, despite the fact that these arguments have been debated for a thousand years.. but NO.. Now we have you.. and you know everything.. because I bet you talked to baby Jesus.
Anthony if you were seriously debating then you wouldn't be attacking everyone who is gay. Until you stop doing that, then no one is going to believe the crap you pull.
Re: religious non-gays and gays talking, there is nothing to talk about. Religious delusional Babble Humpers are trying to use a 2,000 year old piece of crap fiction to deny gays the rights all others have. The only things the delusionals should do is shut the fack up and confine the practice of their version of voodoo to inside their own homes and cult clubhouses.
"When are gays going to stop hating Christians and trying to ruin their organizations and disrupting peace for religious people? Why can't we live parallel in America? If you remember, the gays started this junk"
You state that it is gays starting this "junk?" Gays started condemning Christians and started calling them unclean and started kicking them out of their organizations? Gays stand in the pulpits each week and talk about the evil christians who live perverted lives? Gays have told their children that they can't play or associate with gays?
Then you go on to say you could have a "mature" debate? Dude, you are so far off base that it would be us waiting for you to mature before the debate, just to give you a chance.
Did you not see what I put? Christians that are living correctly to the principals of Christ's teaching would not be doing the gay bashing? Maybe it didn't post or I put it on another reply.
I do agree with gay bashing. I absolutely hate it. I do not agree with gay bashing Pastors. But look at it from my point of view: if an organization doesn't accept you, fine, go start your own, or go find one that does. Don't make legal action out of silly crap.
This debate is so stupid. I wish everyone would chll out.
Computer keyboard sales will be up next week with everyone bashing their keyboards.
****I DO NOT AGREE WITH GAY BASHING****** Typo
Anthony; You're very confused. The majority of the BSA leadership are Christians. Thus it was Christians that voted to make this policy change. Look at all the Christians sects that support this change.
So it wasn't gays that force this change on the BSA. It was Christian BSA leaders that decided change should occur.
Face the facts you're in the minority now and it only took 4 or so years for the tide to change.
You said, "I would debate you all day."
I doubt you'd be able to "debate" yourself out of a wet paper bag.
You said, "Since you have the immaturity of a two year old to come to a forum full of religious topic debate with a name like "I am God", although you clearly am not a supporter of Christianity, I refuse to debate with you till you can mature up."
News flash. The christian god isn't the only one ever invented. There are thousands. Yours is nothing special.
You said, "But I will say. I am aware of what religion has done good and bad. That's the point of my comment. Christians if they were following the teachings of Christ would clearly show respect for other people that do not share their belief. Therefore the Alabama Church is wrong in the actions it has taken. I would not have done what the Alabama Pastor has done. Its closed the door for a great chance of witnessing. It's an absolutely careless decision by that Pastor."
As long as bad and evil is done in the name of religion you'll have to deal with the backlash. Everything good that is done in name of religion can, and is done without it. And doing good doesn't make up for doing bad. Helping the poor doesn't justify discriminating against gays.
You said, "As for some gays and some gay supporters, why do they hate religion so bad?"
Only the bad parts. If the religious kept their fairy tale out of the lives of others we wouldn't be having this discussion.
You said, "Because we disagree with them? But if we disagree with them, they call us haters. So immature."
What you call "disagreement" is nothing of the sort. It is outright discrimination. It is exactly the same as racial discrimination.
You said, "I think if Gays and their supporters would chill out, many religious people would chill out and we could talk."
You pretend there are two equal sides to this. There aren't. On one side there are those that intentionally disparage and dehumanize, and on the other side are the victims and their supporters. Once the religious stop denigrating gays and treat them as equal human beings, we can start. Of course, as soon as that happens the dispute is settled.
You said, "But just like most gay friends I have, the slightest hint of my disagree of their life style turns them in to childish two year old brats screaming "hater!" because I disagree with them."
Calling it a lifestyle shows the depth of your ignorance. Being gay isn't a choice. It isn't a life they choose. Now christianity, on the other hand, is a lifestyle. It is a choice. And not a smart one, to say the least.
You said, "The rebuttal you had to my comment wasn't forum worthy. Learn to debate. Change your name. Grow up. And face me."
Get a grip.
As I have said on a later post, I am quite done with this debate and wish for the peace between both sides. I am a gay friendly Christian that has many gay friends that I love dearly. There are many hot head Christians that cause problems just like there are many hot head gays that cause problems like we see clearly in this forum.
I hope you have a degree in political science because you have a great approach on your analysis of my comments. Good job I will add. I was quite angry at the whole topic in general.
I have won many debate awards by the way. Many. I don't take a passion to social issues like this because there are so many more important issues in America.
As I said good job. But I do have a grip just for your information. More grip than a lot of the wack jobs on both sides of this forum that are extremely close minded (as I said, I have many gay friends that I love dearly and I am a devout Christian). I wish peace for everyone. Excuse my own hot headed comments.
Anthony, you've hardly ever won a debate in your life. Liar liar pants never on fire!
I've spent the past 5 years heavily involved in debates from coast to coast and have travelled many miles for small and large debates. Thank you but I have been accomplished.
Debating whether or not that is true on a cnn news forum is silly. I enjoy debates but I have no love for these types of forums. It causes more problems than good. I got extremely heated in this forum and shouldn't have.
But thanks for you comment. It wasn't necessary.
You said, "As I have said on a later post, I am quite done with this debate and wish for the peace between both sides."
There isn't going to be peace until everyone is treated as equal. That likely won't happen until some of the religious point fade into history and are looked on with disdain. Much like racism is now. Cowering from the discussion isn't helping.
You said, "I am a gay friendly Christian that has many gay friends that I love dearly. There are many hot head Christians that cause problems just like there are many hot head gays that cause problems like we see clearly in this forum."
The "good guys" need people like you to carry the torch. It's through christians standing up against the toxic elements in their religion that we may stand a chance to overcome the rampant discrimination.
You said, "I hope you have a degree in political science because you have a great approach on your analysis of my comments."
Nope, no political degree, just a strong interest.
You said, "Good job I will add."
You said, "I was quite angry at the whole topic in general."
Anger gets you nowhere. I find that if something gets my blood boiling, I should refrain from posting until I've had a chance to collect my thoughts. That doesn't mean that I refrain from showing anger in my posts.
You said, "I have won many debate awards by the way. Many."
Cool, but I really couldn't care less. Accolades mean nothing here.
You said, "I don't take a passion to social issues like this because there are so many more important issues in America."
I disagree. Until we straighten out the inequality there is very little more important. That doesn't mean that we should abandon all other issues.
You said, "But I do have a grip just for your information. More grip than a lot of the wack jobs on both sides of this forum that are extremely close minded (as I said, I have many gay friends that I love dearly and I am a devout Christian)."
You are setting the bar pretty low if you compare yourself to the whack jobs.
You said, "I wish peace for everyone."
Me too. that's why I so violently defend the rights of minorities. Even, or especially, ones that I don't belong to.
You said, "Excuse my own hot headed comments."
No problem. I'm not easily offended.
Who is a minority? I experienced revelation of the bible through the spirit. The holy spirit is a sanctifying spirit that bears the truth of good word in a persons heart.
You said, "I experienced revelation of the bible through the spirit."
I'm sorry. Have you consulted a medical professional? There may not be a cure yet, but the symptoms are very treatable.
The "All Scouts"
No limits. No restrictions. No affiliations.
Let's start it right here and now.
We will seek corporate sponsors just like the Little League does.
If that is the case, then you might as well hand a sign out that says, "Welcome to Hell. Come One. Come All."...
Nice Try –
Firstly, there is no hell. Secondly, I have Baptist gay friends. They are among your midst, you just don't know it. One is even a guest speaker on Wednesdays and Sunday nights. He thinks it is hilarious.
BTW – he is part of the youth ministry.
John 13:14 says ""A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." How do the Baptists and other religions justify their stance on gays with this Bible verse? Or is it acceptable to pick and chose your bible verses to enforce your sense of righteousness?
John 13:14 does not say that...
Chris, we can love others without compromising ourselves before the Lord. God does not want us to feed our chidlren to the sharks. As parents we are to protect them from evil. This is an act of love. Love of God, which is the greatest of all commandments.
Religion is irrational.
Chris, the scripture you quoted is in the 34th verse. Not the 14th. And so many people take that scripture completely out of context. In that verse, Jesus wasn't talking to everybody. He was only talking to his disciples (who would later become his apostles). Jesus did NOT give that commandment to everybody as you assume…
Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
RE: "God does not want us to feed our chidlren to the sharks..."
Gay people are sharks who devour children? Seriously folks... next it's going to be the UN black helicopters are gonna carry off all the white wimmin to 'cullud town'... thank you courageous warriors fer jeeezus fer savin' us all from this latest spiritual menace. I mean, if we don't keep quaaaaars in the closet they's nevvah gonna go away... am I right(wing)???
The Boy Scouts of America included racially segregated units as late as 1974. As far as I know, they still have rules against openly agnostic and atheist boys joining. They still have a long ways to go before truly becoming tolerant.
Your statement is intolerant in thinking they are not tolerant enough....liberals, what a hoot.
One should be careful what you tolerate. Tolerating that which is against God will only earn you a place in hell...
I was openly atheist in the Boy Scouts in Mississippi the late 80s. It was never once an issue. Our scoutmaster was a lesbian and half the troop was Jewish. Until recently, I had always perceived the BSA as a friendly, open-armed organization that was in no way religious in theme.
Good point, Nice Try
The BSA is not the issue here. They are the rock. They are the foundation.
It is the SBC that has the issue. Unfortunately, they sponsor about 4000 BSA troops.
Mt Path's View – what a hoot. Bases morals on the torture of another human being.
Don't know how long they remained Racially segregated but they began their ban of Gays in 1978.
Hey, could we all chip in and rent a nice secluded corner of the internet where Nice Try and ~My Path's View can go and stroke each other off and constantly assure each other that "No, I'M not gay!"?
Secular Humanist from Ohio...Obviously it goes WAY over your tiny pea sized brain. Go save an endangered animal or something. You are of no use here.
Richard...I see your intolerant liberal views are being challenged and it bothers you. Poor baby.
MVP makes pronouncements and then runs for the hills. Neither integrity or courage to answer questions or defend beliefs.
Secular Humanist from Ohio...What is your specific brief question? I may choose to answer or might not waste my time, but go ahead and ask....
Who made you god's spokesperson?
Secular Humanist from Ohio...THAT's your question, okay. Hmm, who made me God's spokesperson....no one, idiot. Do you have a problem with my opinions? Are you so intolerant that you think you are 100% correct in your view's? If you are so bothered by my comments, then when you see them, choose to skip reading it. and go on about your merry way 🙂
And by the way, isn't that just so big of you to permit me a brief question you may or may not answer.
"Nice Try ...One should be careful what you tolerate. Tolerating that which is against God will only earn you a place in hell..."
Thanks for the heads-up. I won't tolerate Blabtists any more. Something has to be seriously wrong with a group of people who have to be controlled with threats of eternal torment. My personal experience with blabtists certainly indicates that.
We Lutherans are with our Southern Baptist brethren on this one. You liberals can call it "hate," "bigotry", whatever you want, the fact is the BSA will struggle to remain afloat without the support of Christian organizations.
Bye now. No point in lingering, just exit as fast as you can.
They'll survive. Many of you religious folk have stated that certain organizations would fall if they accept something you disagree with, but that has so far not happened.
I doubt that. I think they're better off.
I guess you checked with the Lutheran leadership on this? Pretty sure you will be laughed at... but I would suppose you are use to that by now.
Or, more nonChristian boys will join once the heavy Baptist presence leaves the organization. Not too many people will join these churches based on this stand, but a lot more people may feel comfortable sending their boys to scouting troops now. There may even be quite a few Baptists who will choose their children's happiness over membership in these churches. There are many, many choices for church out there, but there is only one BSA.
Considering Lutherans have Gays in the Ministry I give this one a big BS.
When you say "we Lutherans", which subsect of Lutherans in particular? They haven't been able to agree on anything since ole Martin himself nailed his 95 theses to the church door, that's why they've got a dozen different competing synods and confessions in the US alone, each of whom thinks all the others are full of hooey, apostates, heretics, and blasphemers.
I'm Lutheran. You don't speak for me or other Lutherans outside of the bigots you hang with.
Baptist men are getting pretty excited about this Royal Ambassador program. The catholic priest are going to be jealous of the free reign these baptist "holy men" are having with their boys now that the BSA isn't there to interfere. Baptist ministers have a higher percentage rate of molesting children then even the catholics.
That must be some good weed you're smoking.
So much for really caring about the kids. Bunch of disgusting hypocrites! Pathetic group using God's name. Shame on them!
No more pathetic than the gays who want to take advantage of them. Where's your feelings about that?...
"Pathetic group using God's name.", yeah, but pretty much just like every other religious group that way. Same old same...
Girls are molested by their fathers at a much higher rate than gay men molest boys.
Once again, the kids involved in scouting lose out. While the adults on both sides of this social issue are arguing over who's morally right, they (straight and gay proponents) have completely forgotten that scouts is not about THEM, it's about the kids involved, and the good time they should be having instead learning outdoor and leadership skills before the 'fun' that's called youth ends, and they have to enter the 'Real World' as young adults. All selfish parties shout cut-out the bickering, and just let the kids in scouts have a good time without having them be at the center of a political firestorm, because it's not being fair to them.
Maybe we need a different model; one that doesn't pledge anything to anyone other than themselves and the goal.
I propose we start "the Scouts". No religion, no gender, no anything. Just a commitment to become a better person.
The "All Scouts".
Lincoln was a very religious and conservative Republican. You can change history by just saying it wasn't true fool and Hitler was not a Christian, where the hell did you get that? He was a Pagan that kept a mandrake root with him because of its mystical properties. You liberals are crazy stupid if you believe that.
If you want to fight with Democrats, at least post something factual. Just because you didn't agree with Hitler, it doesn't mean he wasn't Christian. It is a pretty useless argument to make when history proves you wrong.
Lincoln was clearly NOT conservative. Conservative cling to the old ways. Lincoln blew the doors off the old ways. He ended 200 years of slavery with a stroke of the pen.
Abraham Lincoln was not only one of the most radical presidents we've ever had, he was anything BUT a Christian. But, of course, knowing that would mean you're spending some time in THIS reality, instead of the confabulated one you've ginned up in your head.
god-hating nazi fascist 5 top excuses for not receiving jesus christ as savior.
1 he's a phony
2 never existed
3 even if if he did, he wasn't divine
4 i hate him
5 he hates gays
wrong on every excuse
True on all accounts. There is zero evidence that Christ ever existed, and none of the original gospels claimed his divinity until the end of the 2nd century. His ascension into heaven was definitely fiction.
and u live in dread of him 24/7
a little paranoid, dodo?
can't have it both ways u idiot
You are an excellent representative of the reasons why sane people are bailing out of religion left and right.
I fear your god about as much as I fear the other 3700+ gods mankind has created. I probably fear the Batman more.
How do you choose between believing in Jesus, Bigfoot, leprechauns, witchcraft, Island, alien abductions, the Tooth Fairy, gold at the end of the rainbow or the myriad other assertions that people have made over the course of human history? [Faith is] like rolling the dice and hoping you have placed your faith in a true proposition…However, if you are still inclined to place faith in an un-provable assertion, I am God, send me money.
Chad will soon have something to say about this 🙂
there is only evidence for tooth fairy
jim no one cares what you think.
Rachel, Chad will only only parrot the same vacuous arguments he always does. And he'll get his ass whipped again, as usual.
The liberals posting here need to study their history. Just as the kkk was started and ran by liberal democrats and slavery was ended by conservative republicans. Natzis were liberal socialists who hated religeon and killed jews because of their religious beliefs, the liberals on here sound like wanna be hitlers rallying against social conservatives. How soon they forget. Must be a lot of NAMBLA members posing here today to celebrate the opportunity the Boy SCouts have given them.
Hitler and nazis were Christians.
Actually your history is backwards. In 1860, Republicans were the Liberal party and the Democrats were the conservative party. Those roles flipped decades later.
This is the other way around. This is religion hating the "non-conformers".
Another correction. Hitler was raised Catholic, and practiced a version of Christianity of his own creation.
Correction # 2: Fascism is on the extreme RIGHT while Communism is on the extreme LEFT politically but their effect on the population is the same.
Think for yourself. Be ideologically free!!
Another conservative troll trying to create revisionist history and pick fights with those that are Democrat. Hitler was indeed a Christian. Just because you didn't agree with what he did doesn't mean he wasn't Christian. You also seem to forget that the KKK (also known as Dixiecrats) joined the Republican Party during the 1950s and 1960s due to their individual party becoming more supportive of the Civil Rights movements. Yes, there were Democrats that voted against Civil Rights, but they were also voted in by the Dixiecrats of the South who aligned themselves as Republicans during that period.
Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
Sounds to me like the Teapublicans. Great wealth but not willing to help the less fortunate.
Jim Jones was a Christian too. So the heck what! There are a lot of people out there through history that bab thing in the name of God. Republicans who cheated on there wives . Married ones to who tried to pick up men in airport bathrooms. Remember that congressman from Colorado? Gee let's play the blame game. This stuff make me puke. Pat Robertson he is someone for you to draw too.
The Nazis garnered their support with anti-Jewish Lutheran dogma. That's one reason why the Vatican was so eager to launder their money.
Did you actually graduate from a school of any sort.. I mean, would be happy to hear you graduated kindergarten at this point, because your post suggest that is about all the schooling your received.
Hitler and nazis were Christians.
"The liberals posting here need to study their history."
The LIBERALS need to study their history!!?? This coming from a guy who proceeds to demonstrate his abject ignorance of the subject with every succeeding sentence?
Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. — Denis Diderot
Only Muslims are fanatics...
Picketing soldiers' funerals claiming it was caused by gays anyone?
Westboro Baptist Church ring a bell?
Not what Jesus would do. If you believe in hell you will probably go there.
So if you don't believe in hell you won't go there?
Michael, if you believe that, then you don't know Jesus at all....
All religions serve to divide us and foment most violent confrontations between groups of humans
I agree. Not once was a war declared in the name on Atheism.
jimkon... I think you're confused. That job belongs to Lucifer...
Lucifer in the bible was the planet Venus, not a person, dimwit.