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May 31st, 2013
04:19 PM ET
Baptists plan exodus from Boy ScoutsBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - For Southern Baptist pastor Tim Reed, it was Scripture versus the Scouts. “God’s word explicitly says homosexuality is a choice, a sin,” said Reed, pastor of First Baptist Church of Gravel Ridge in Jacksonville, Arkansas. So when the Boy Scouts of America voted to lift its ban on openly gay youths on May 24, Reed said the church had no choice but to cut its charter with Troop 542. “It’s not a hate thing here,” Reed told CNN affiliate Fox 16. “It’s a moral stance we must take as a Southern Baptist church.” Southern Baptist leaders say Reed is not alone. Baptist churches sponsor nearly 4,000 Scout units representing more than 100,000 youths, according to the Boy Scouts of America. That number could drop precipitously. The Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s largest Protestant denomination, will soon urge its 45,000 congregations and 16 million members to cut ties with the Scouts, according to church leaders. The denomination will vote on nonbinding but influential resolutions during a convention June 11-12 in Houston. “There’s a 100% chance that there will be a resolution about disaffiliation at the convention,” said Richard Land, the outgoing head of the Southern Baptists’ Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, “and a 100% chance that 99% of people will vote for it.” “Southern Baptists are going to be leaving the Boy Scouts en masse,” Land continued. Roger “Sing” Oldham, a spokesman for the Southern Baptist Convention, emphasized that local congregations make their own decision on the Scouts. But he, too, said he expects Baptist delegates, which the church calls “messengers,” to voice their disagreement with the BSA's decision to allow gay youths. “With this policy change, the Boy Scouts’ values are contradictory to the basic values of our local churches,” Oldham said. Several religious groups with strong Scouting ties support the new policy. “We have heard from both those who support the amended policy and those who would have preferred it would not have changed,” said BSA spokesman Deron Smith. Faith-based organizations charter more than 70% of Scout chapters, providing meeting space and leadership, according to the BSA. “There have been some organizations that have decided not to renew their charters with Scouting," said Smith, "but we can’t quantify the impact of the amended policy." The National Jewish Committee on Scouting, the United Church of Christ, the Episcopal Church, the Unitarian Universalist Association and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which sponsors more Scout units than any other faith, all endorsed the change. The National Catholic Committee on Scouting, which is run with oversight from a bishop, said Thursday that allowing gay youths in the Scouts does not conflict with church teaching. Each bishop will decide whether or not to allow churches in his diocese to charter Scout units, the committee added. “We ask that Catholic Scouters and chartered organization heads not rush to judgment,” said Edward Martin, chairman of the National Catholic Committee on Scouting. But the Rev. Derek Lappe, pastor of the Our Lady Star of the Sea Catholic Church in Bremerton, Washington, has already made up his mind. “I do not feel that it is possible for us to live out, and to teach, the authentic truth about human sexuality within the confines of the Boy Scout’s new policy,” said Lappe. The priest told CNN affiliate FOX16 that his parish will part ways with the Scouts and develop its own programs. There may soon be an alternative to the Scouts for social conservatives like Lappe. John Stemberger, founder of On My Honor, a group that opposed the Scouts’ change in policy, plans to convene conservatives in Louisville, Kentucky, in June to consider forming a new Scout-like group, which could be up and running by the end of 2013. “Churches and Scoutmasters are looking for leadership and direction,” said Stemberg, an attorney in Orlando, Florida. A number of conservative religious denominations already sponsor their own groups. For instance, the Southern Baptists have the Royal Ambassadors, an explicitly Christian program founded in 1908 for boys in first through sixth grade. (A similar group called Challengers equips older boys in “mission education.”) The name comes from the New Testament, in which the Apostle Paul tells Christians to be “ambassadors for Christ.” The estimated 31,000 Royal Ambassadors pledge “ to become a well-informed, responsible follower of Christ; to have a Christlike concern for all people; to learn how to carry the message of Christ around the world; to work with others in sharing Christ; and to keep myself clean and healthy in mind and body." While not as outdoorsy as the Boy Scouts, Ambassadors do camp and play sports, said Land, who was a member of the group during the 1950s. But instead of merit badges for archery and bird study, young Ambassadors earn patches for memorizing Bible verses and mission work. Southern Baptists said they are preparing for a surge of interest in the Royal Ambassadors at their upcoming convention in Houston. “We really have an opportunity here to strengthen our RA programs,” the Rev. Ernest Easley, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee, said in a sermon last Sunday, “and to get the boys in a program where they’re going to be protected, where there’s a high moral standard and where they will have an opportunity to learn about camping, missions, evangelism in the local church.” soundoff (10,821 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 Next » |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Maybe we can pray away the Southern Baptists.
Both the religious and the gays are delusional. Same coin, different side.
You do not have a good understanding of the true nature of the world, or you never would have posted that.
@"@" : That's like saying the religious and left-handed people are delusional.
Both are delusional mentals. Religion is in the decline, and gaysm never made any inroads with people except for the politicians.
@"@": wow – so stupidity is really your end-goal, huh? wow.
Sure they've made inroads, that's why the Republican party wants the issue to go away. The problem is, the've depended on that hate vote against against gays to keep them in office, but now they want to reel that one back in. Too late.
Good. I'll leave them too. Sick people running the show !
Aren't you a little old to be a Boy Scout?
It's amazing that this issue is being taken so seriously in a world in which scouting is increasingly becoming just another small special interest club. This decline is occurring world-wide in countries with entirely different membership policies. There are simply too many options now for one club to be a. major player among youth, especially in a hobby that offers little in the college application process. I'm sure this organization will co ntinue to fill a niche market, but the reality is, no matter what decisions are made it will never be the organization it once was.
Both are actually in a major decline (religion and gayism).
@Saraswati
You said, "There are simply too many options now for one club to be a. major player among youth, especially in a hobby that offers little in the college application process."
Actually, as far as hobby clubs go, the boy scout program is one of the few with tangible benefits for future academic and professional life. Special consideration is given at many universities to those that reach the rank of Eagle (others not so much). That rank may also provide a foot in the door, or the tie breaker for job interviews.
Sorry, @, you were almost correct: both are in decline – religion and boy scouts. "Gay" has been relatively stable for at least tens of thousands of years.
Kilgore: most mutations are pretty stable in nature, that's true. I'm talking about acceptance by regular people.
@"@": OK I should have read this one before the other one. You must be a troll. No one is this stupid; lol.
Me too. Apparently you are unaware that modern Western culture has not been the norm for the past tens of thousands of years.
To me it would be sad if the BSA was to become irrelevant. My nephews were members and they learned a lot especially about nature. So we go fishing and hiking and this was very positive for them. Now all of them are agostic so brainwashing in that area was ignored. So I'm hoping a secular group that promotes bonding with nature remains relevant in the age of too much tech stuff.
LinCA, Iam notaware of any colleges that give special consideration to Eagle Scouts, and in the industries in which I've worked listing it on a job app would be something laughed at after an interview. And I definitely know of no colleges that offer scholarships related to scouting which is what most parents are concerned about. Are these colleges you reference some sort of religious schools?
@Saraswati
For scholarship info, start here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Resources/Scholarships.aspx
Whether an applicant receives special consideration in the job market depends on the job and the interviewers. While it is not a shoe-in, it is often regarded as a plus (for someone just starting in the job market, not so much for later in the career).
@Saraswati
For scholarship info, start here: www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Resources/Scholarships.aspx
Whether an applicant receives special consideration in the job market depends on the job and the interviewers. While it is not a shoe-in, it is often regarded as a plus (for someone just starting in the job market, not so much for later in the career).
@Saraswati
For scholarship info, start here: www . scouting . org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Resources/Scholarships . aspx
Whether an applicant receives special consideration in the job market depends on the job and the interviewers. While it is not a shoe-in, it is often regarded as a plus (for someone just starting in the job market, not so much for later in the career).
Shit. That wasn't supposed to post 3 times. The site seems to be behaving weird for posts at the bottom of the page.
One of the most effective defensive systems against God's incursions has hitherto been organised religion. The various churches have provided a refuge for fugitives from God—his voice drowned in the chanting, his smell lost in the incense, his purpose obscured and confused in creeds, dogmas, dissertations and other priestly pronunciamentos. In vast cathedrals, as in little conventicles, or just wrapped in Quaker silence, one could get away from God. Plainsong held him at bay, as did revivalist eloquence, hearty hymns and intoned prayers. Confronted with that chanting, moaning, gurgling voice—'Dearly beloved brethren, I pray and beseech you . . .' or with that earnest, open, Oxfam face, shining like the morning sun with all the glories flesh is heir to, God could be relied on to make off.
amen and amen
Why even invoke the name of god as a defense? Do you not understand that it is merely a figment of the imaginations of the gullible, fearful, and hateful? This god has no more power than the abandoned Greek, Roman, and Norse gods. He's all of them rolled up into one. The problem is, zero plus zero still equals zero. Therefore, your argument has no substance because the foundation of it is non-existent.
For those struggling with posts that don't show up, the most likely reason this happens is a run-in with the word filter.
CNN uses WordPress blogs for their opinion pieces, and they use automated censoring that looks for words, or fragments of words, that are considered offensive. If your post doesn't show up, it most likely had a forbidden word in it.
On the Belief Blog, repeat posts, even those that were previously censored and not displayed, will show a message stating that you posted it before.
The following words or word fragments will get your post censored (list is incomplete):
arse as in Arsenal
bastard
bitch
clit
cock as in cockatiel
coon as in cocoon
cracker
cum as in circumstance
cunt
douche
effing
fag
ftw
fuck
goddamn
gloryhole
homo as in homosexual
hooters
horny
hump
jackass
jap
jism
kinky
kooch
necrophilia
nigra as in denigrate
nipple
nigger
orgy
pis
poon
porn
prick
queer
rape as in grape
sex as in homosexual
shit
slut
smut
snatch
spic as in despicable
tit as in constitution or title
twat
vag as in vague
whore
wonderful us
wop
wtf
xxx
To circumvent the filters you can break up the words by putting an extra character in, like: consti.tution (breaking the oh so naughty "tit").
How do you format text and embed youtube videos and stuff like that?
Sorry, that's black magic restricted to atheists. But I will give you a hint – HTML.
@Tim
How do you format text and embed youtube videos and stuff like that?
<i>italics</i> will show as italics
<b>bold</b> will show as bold
I don't embed videos much and the method I used last doesn't work anymore.
Why even post that garbage? Only a very small person with a weak mind would even feel the need to use any of the words you mentioned above. And any person who does feel the need to use such words in their communications with others, then they are only telling us they have nothing else worthwhile to say. And if they have nothing else worthwhile to say, then whatever they do say is completely worthless and is not worth listening to in the first place…
Nice Try, what's wrong with grape or vague? And how are you doing with proof for your god?
@Nice Try
You said, "Why even post that garbage? Only a very small person with a weak mind would even feel the need to use any of the words you mentioned above."
You don't ever use words like "vague", "constitution", "title", "circumstantial", "cumbersome", "homosexual" (especially on an article like this) or "despicable"?
I know that not everyone would use "fuck" or "shit" in most conversations, but the list isn't complete without them.
You don't have to use the list if you don't want to.
Nice Try,
"Why even post that garbage? Only a very small person with a weak mind would even feel the need to use any of the words you mentioned above"
You prefer using words like "moron" and "dumber than you look". WWJD? All hypocrisy.
mama k uses the word Constitution. But I wouldn't expect someone like Nice Try to try and hurt their head too often on that word.
The song I sang in Baptist Sunday school was "Jesus loves the little children"....the second line was not..'except those Gay kids over there'. There have always been Gay scouts, and there will always be Gay Scouts...No church can ever pray or preach Gods children away.
I'm a Baptist in the south, but not in the Southern Baptist Convention. Those people are a few centuries back. Meaning, backwards...
As an atheist, I agree they are backwards, but there are a few churches, truly a few that do carry a message of complete inclusiveness, and you see it reflected in the makeup of their congregation and in the message of their sermons. Very rare, but they have my respect for their true human compassion.
The Southern Baptists show their true colors. Cowardice in the face of children.
Cowardice for standing up for your beliefs? I'm not Baptist but I know cowardice and that's not it.
Why can't you accept the SBC decision just like you support the BSA policy change. Each group just made a choice. People shouldn't be pressured to associated with those they don't wish to. I know I don't wish to be associated with those that like disco music!
Saraswati, you posted: Kids already go to school with gay kids what the heck is the difference? Or did you want to kick the kids out of school, too?
There is a difference and you know it. In schools kids don't buck togethere. So there is a legit question here; Should two gay teens be allowed to bunk with each other? If a non gay kid doesn't wish to bunk with a gay kid (even if his fear is misplaced), will he have that right? I see logistic issues here and I just wonder how the BSA or GSA handle these. But I don't view these logistic issues as gay right issues. (see US military which is having major problems with mixing of genders with women getting abused, big time).
Substi.tute African American for gay. Can you see the issue now?
SH from Ohio. You clearly don't understand what I'm talking about here. While there are some race motivated assaults in the military they pale in comparision to gender motivated ones. Again, I see logistic issues here that are NOT related to gay rights.
First, many kids in the US attend boarding schools, including public boarding schools run by several states so if you want a model it's already out there. Having attended diverse boarding schools and colleges I have never seen this be a problem.
Second, if "bunking together" were really their concern they would just welcome all the kids and make rules to limit gay kids f bunking policies rather than banning the kids altogether. They also would not be banning lesbian troop leaders (which is done) who by their own logic would be the least likely people to cause a problem. Most importantly the BSA would not have made explicit statements that this was a morality issue because they believe hom.ose.xuals are not morally upstanding citizens. The whole thing is a good bit of a crock since many scouts never go on a single overnight trip.
And the dynamics simply aren't that complex. When I went on a 10 day school sponsored camping trip everyone slept in the same large tent for 6 days, both male and female. In a group that size with that many eyes nothing was going to happen. And hell, people were far too tired and dirty and disgusting for this to really be a consideration. The remaining 4 days students all slept in private tents...again hardly an issue.
The whole "it's too difficult" argument is just a cover for an organization that already admitted its stance and logic long ago.
Saraswati, so it appears the BSA has addressed what I'm calling logistic issues by having large tents. That makes sense and this would work even if boys and girls were sharing the same tent. But clearly the US Military hasn't worked out these logistic issues and women are taking a beating over that. But as far as I know there have been no issues with getting rid of DADT. So maybe these logistic concerns are mostly limited to the conduct of straight males.
Jazz,
"You clearly don't understand what I'm talking about here. While there are some race motivated assaults in the military they pale in comparision to gender motivated ones."
Your point (referencing your original post) seems to be that males are unrestrainable and should be kept separate from the objects of their desire, no?
Here are just a few of the issues with your position:
1. If you are correct and a significant percentage of males are unrestrainable, this would clearly be a genetic issue that in the long run is best handled by jailing offenders early and keeping them out of the gene pool.
2. There are many other ways to keep this minority of unrestrainable persons (in this case mostly males) from attacking the objects of their desire.
3. The whole concern that straight males have revolves around a misguided notion that gay men are driven to have se.x with them. The fact is gay males don't exactly have a problem finding other guys to be with. Women are at much greater risk from straight men because a lot of straight guys could not get a woman to choose to have se.x with them. Any normal gay man can get se.x consensually whenever he wants it and doesn't give a cr@p about the straight guys.
@Jazz
"So maybe these logistic concerns are mostly limited to the conduct of straight males."
Our posts crossed, but yes, I agree that for a number of reasons this is a problem mostly related to straight men.
Southern Baptist still have members arguing with each other over the use of the "New International" version of the Bible versus the "King James" version... Yeah, they are a group just looking for a fight and looking to to condemn people to the lake of fire.. and they take pleasure in it. Nice Try is probably one of these slightly overweight men, who has a secret attraction to little boys, and hates himself so much that he has to sound off to hide his shame.
If honesty prevailed, we would all admit that we are intolerant in one way or another. It's human nature.
No, it's really not.
I tend to agree with you. I can only listen to someone that is religious and their mumbo jumbo for so long. I also admit I lack respect for them when they try to say their myths are facts. But I'm A-OK if they just say 'that is my faith, others may view things differently'.
So yes we are all intolerant to a degree. The only time this is a problem is when people try to pass laws that restrict the behaviors of others and those behaviors have NO direct impact on their lives.
I just did a test and everything thats negative about Gays get censored and not published. Everything positive gets posted. CNN should be shut down for the LIES they sell here.
There's an automatic filter for certain letter combos that might be part of swear words, you paranoid, homophic dumbass. Shouldn't you be cleaning guns with the good 'ol boys instead of posting?
Frank, do a REAL test. Start on Page 1 and read every comment up to the present (Page 123), and only THEN say that there's been nothing bad posted here about gay people. If you can actually do that with a straight face, you'll make the Guinness Book of Records for having the highest threshold for insults and trash talking in human history.
It censors posts with offensive words. Try using Roget's thesaurus. Maybe they have a Hate edition.
I believe you, Frank. I have been censored by CNN on many occasions. And Sam, I don't use profanity. It's one of those things I don't tolerate in my home.
Gays suck.
See? You're a liar. Shut up.
Frank, you sound like another conservative that doesh't believe in freedom. Shouldn't CNN be free to operate this website as they see fit. If you don't like it got to the Fox site. You do know you are providing CNN with revenue by going to this site. So take control and instead of crying like a child.
Oh, and the reasons you gave are bogus as others have already stated.
@Frank
You said, "I just did a test and everything thats negative about Gays get censored and not published. Everything positive gets posted. CNN should be shut down for the LIES they sell here."
CNN uses WordPress blogs for their opinion pieces, and they use automated censoring that looks for words, or fragments of words, that are considered offensive. If your post doesn't show up, it most likely had a forbidden word in it.
On the Belief Blog, repeat posts, even those that were previously censored and not displayed, will show a message stating that you posted it before.
The following words or word fragments will get your post censored (list is incomplete):
arse as in Arsenal
bastard
bitch
clit
cock as in cockatiel
coon as in cocoon
cracker
cum as in circumstance
cunt
douche
effing
fag
ftw
fuck
goddamn
gloryhole
homo as in homosexual
hooters
horny
hump
jackass
jap
jism
kinky
kooch
necrophilia
nigra as in denigrate
nigger
nipple
orgy
pis
poon
porn
prick
queer
rape as in grape
sex as in homosexual
shit
slut
smut
snatch
spic as in despicable
tit as in constitution or title
twat
vag as in vague
whore
wonderful us
wop
wtf
xxx
To circumvent the filters you can break up the words by putting an extra character in, like: consti.tution (breaking the oh so naughty "tit").
Well, this will certainly teach gays a lesson. If they don't already know it, the B-cult is a historically intolerant organization of bigots who cowardly target harmless targets. The cult uses witch-hunts every time they need to attract new bigoted recruits.
To see a World in a grain of sand,
And a Heaven in a wild flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand,
And Eternity in an hour.
blake
Blake Lively? She was about the only good thing in _Green Lantern_
in need of help...ignore and report their abuse and get it off the blog
Well, I disagree with pretty much everything Nice Try posts here, but I can't honestly call it abuse. He/She/It represents a point of view held by a non-trivial portion of the American public and expresses it more or less cogently and stays more or less on topic.
I reserve the "report abuse" button for the terminally incoherent (like Mr. Filthy and LionlyLamb) or the spammers peddling their "work at home, make millions" web links.
In this internet age, about the only way you'll ever keep your kids from learning that there's a wide variety of different kinds of people in the world — each with something to offer and learn from — is to run off and join a cult or the Amish or some such group that doesn't allow interaction with the outside world at all. It's getting harder and harder for your own personal brainwashing to "stick", when there are so many competing ideas flowing in.
As Princess Merida would say, with exasperation, "Auuwww, MOM!"
You are so right. Those poor, confused, often in bad home situations, that are being recruited by gays and told they are stuck there can learn there is a way out, that they don't have to be forever enslaved by that choice.
Seperation of Church and Scouts
Seperation of Church and State
This gives other churches and organizations the oportunity to step up to the plate.
Nice Try,
There are FAR FAR MORE Christians who are ADULTERERS than there are total gays. Just pick-and-choose what you want to condemn.
Topher, is that me?
I left the S. Baptist religion and have NEVER looked back or regretted it. These are the same type of poeple who protested when African American scouts were accepted.
They teach nothing but HATE!
Who needs those white trash Southern Baptists, anyway!
Why such hate? Where's your tolerance?...
Nice Try, you're talking to big b, right?
I would have tolerance if I even thought you were anything but misguided fools.