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May 31st, 2013
04:19 PM ET
Baptists plan exodus from Boy ScoutsBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - For Southern Baptist pastor Tim Reed, it was Scripture versus the Scouts. “God’s word explicitly says homosexuality is a choice, a sin,” said Reed, pastor of First Baptist Church of Gravel Ridge in Jacksonville, Arkansas. So when the Boy Scouts of America voted to lift its ban on openly gay youths on May 24, Reed said the church had no choice but to cut its charter with Troop 542. “It’s not a hate thing here,” Reed told CNN affiliate Fox 16. “It’s a moral stance we must take as a Southern Baptist church.” Southern Baptist leaders say Reed is not alone. Baptist churches sponsor nearly 4,000 Scout units representing more than 100,000 youths, according to the Boy Scouts of America. That number could drop precipitously. The Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s largest Protestant denomination, will soon urge its 45,000 congregations and 16 million members to cut ties with the Scouts, according to church leaders. The denomination will vote on nonbinding but influential resolutions during a convention June 11-12 in Houston. “There’s a 100% chance that there will be a resolution about disaffiliation at the convention,” said Richard Land, the outgoing head of the Southern Baptists’ Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, “and a 100% chance that 99% of people will vote for it.” “Southern Baptists are going to be leaving the Boy Scouts en masse,” Land continued. Roger “Sing” Oldham, a spokesman for the Southern Baptist Convention, emphasized that local congregations make their own decision on the Scouts. But he, too, said he expects Baptist delegates, which the church calls “messengers,” to voice their disagreement with the BSA's decision to allow gay youths. “With this policy change, the Boy Scouts’ values are contradictory to the basic values of our local churches,” Oldham said. Several religious groups with strong Scouting ties support the new policy. “We have heard from both those who support the amended policy and those who would have preferred it would not have changed,” said BSA spokesman Deron Smith. Faith-based organizations charter more than 70% of Scout chapters, providing meeting space and leadership, according to the BSA. “There have been some organizations that have decided not to renew their charters with Scouting," said Smith, "but we can’t quantify the impact of the amended policy." The National Jewish Committee on Scouting, the United Church of Christ, the Episcopal Church, the Unitarian Universalist Association and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which sponsors more Scout units than any other faith, all endorsed the change. The National Catholic Committee on Scouting, which is run with oversight from a bishop, said Thursday that allowing gay youths in the Scouts does not conflict with church teaching. Each bishop will decide whether or not to allow churches in his diocese to charter Scout units, the committee added. “We ask that Catholic Scouters and chartered organization heads not rush to judgment,” said Edward Martin, chairman of the National Catholic Committee on Scouting. But the Rev. Derek Lappe, pastor of the Our Lady Star of the Sea Catholic Church in Bremerton, Washington, has already made up his mind. “I do not feel that it is possible for us to live out, and to teach, the authentic truth about human sexuality within the confines of the Boy Scout’s new policy,” said Lappe. The priest told CNN affiliate FOX16 that his parish will part ways with the Scouts and develop its own programs. There may soon be an alternative to the Scouts for social conservatives like Lappe. John Stemberger, founder of On My Honor, a group that opposed the Scouts’ change in policy, plans to convene conservatives in Louisville, Kentucky, in June to consider forming a new Scout-like group, which could be up and running by the end of 2013. “Churches and Scoutmasters are looking for leadership and direction,” said Stemberg, an attorney in Orlando, Florida. A number of conservative religious denominations already sponsor their own groups. For instance, the Southern Baptists have the Royal Ambassadors, an explicitly Christian program founded in 1908 for boys in first through sixth grade. (A similar group called Challengers equips older boys in “mission education.”) The name comes from the New Testament, in which the Apostle Paul tells Christians to be “ambassadors for Christ.” The estimated 31,000 Royal Ambassadors pledge “ to become a well-informed, responsible follower of Christ; to have a Christlike concern for all people; to learn how to carry the message of Christ around the world; to work with others in sharing Christ; and to keep myself clean and healthy in mind and body." While not as outdoorsy as the Boy Scouts, Ambassadors do camp and play sports, said Land, who was a member of the group during the 1950s. But instead of merit badges for archery and bird study, young Ambassadors earn patches for memorizing Bible verses and mission work. Southern Baptists said they are preparing for a surge of interest in the Royal Ambassadors at their upcoming convention in Houston. “We really have an opportunity here to strengthen our RA programs,” the Rev. Ernest Easley, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee, said in a sermon last Sunday, “and to get the boys in a program where they’re going to be protected, where there’s a high moral standard and where they will have an opportunity to learn about camping, missions, evangelism in the local church.” soundoff (10,821 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 Next » |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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It's going to be interesting to see how the Boy Scouts can continue if the churches will no longer host them–many public meeting rooms are not available to them either, since they still discriminate against gays.
Secular groups will step up. Soon discrimination against gays will be as outlawed as discrimination against blacks. Boy Scouts should not be tied to religion, doing so makes them inclusive and doesn't teach children to treat others equally.
the gays have way more money, way more disposable money...
@Joels
Does the though of gay, Jewish bankers make you lose sleep?
Good riddance. Baptists are one of the worst things to happen to this country.
I think the Scouts collective IQ has been kicked up a notch...
Good. The Boy Scouts will be better off without them. There is nothing in the scout Motto, Law or Promise that prohibits gays from joining.
"We are not a club, or a Sunday School. We are a classroom of the wilderness" – Lord Baden Powell, founder of the Boy Scouts.
You are right it was a PRIVATE organization. Now lets see if it survives.
Apparently Baden Powell was gay. http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/17890-boy-scouts-still-have-ban-on-gays-even-though-founder-robert-baden-powell-was-allegedly-gay
Apparently, of all God's plans for man, or all the teachings handed down, the sine qua non is that gays must be condemned – yet he continues to create them again, and again for thousands of years. Forgive me whilst I go bang my head into a wall.
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God (take note here) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (shows sinful nature is not created and can be overcome- – all forms)
All I can say to them is A.M.F.! Narrow minded morons. Do have a beer!
the desires to k ill and ra pe and cheat and lie and to envy and to devour large amounts of food and to get drunk prove to be our deadly enenies
amen
Hey faith have you figured it out yet....................you know the question that sent you off the deep end on
Christians Be Nice article?
i got no desire to do any of those, faithy....
are you attempting to purge your soul?
confessin'?
And you know faith the old pope kicked the angels off the team last xmas so what happened to the old red horn-y devil?
Or where are the morals there faith.................all these years there are suppose to be angels.
Or Ethics faith ?
No little Sammy, your desire to regularly be taken by a man from behind supersedes all others. It's kind of what keeps you going.
My former Baptist pastor preached hate for gays every Sunday.
Until he was caught in a hotel room with a male escort.
You?
a devout zealot of atheism frequently commands religitards to end their lives violently with a gun and her fellow atheists encourage her to do so
it was his problem – why make it yours....
zealot of atheism?
you truly are a maroon
all the pious seem to speak of heaven as eternity in an incredibly beautiful place, (their heads) in the lap of their savior. but they sure as fvck are in no hurry to get there
i am a guy, pen-day-ho
I guess I could understand if one realizes there is a gay person in your son's scout troupe and you pull your son out because you don't want him around gay people. But, to claim your religion dictates this just shows that they are twisting religion to their own bigoted purposes. Or worse, their religion itself is so twisted as to be abhorrent to all people of goodwill and righteousness.
Of course gays want to force young boys to go camping with them and to have scoutmasters stand up and claim that being gay is moral. But sane parents won't place their young boys in such a decadent atmosphere.
@Robert.. you don't even know what moral means. Loon.
Spending your entire life hating people who are different than you simply because you believe "God" wants you to, is the definition of insanity.
It's time to grow up and put away your book of fairytales.
doG, you own the hatred and bigotry I never knew it existed until read all you unbelievers post your nonsense.. What is a fairytale is for you to believe that you know more than God.
don't hate the person, hate the sin....
humans can regret actions and change.. man murders, is deeply sorry... hate the murder, not the man... seems that is what i read...
spending your life accusing others of hating others without substantiating such accusations is a waste of time
The Boyscouts had to choose between teaching children hate or tolerance.
They chose tolerance and they are better for it.
jesus christ lived and breathed and hung out with us
I have read the Bible numerous times, in fact I spent the last 10 years study it, so part of the Bible does contain some historical entries, but sadly the majority contains what we refer as “lest probable events”. The main question that arises during our discussion is “Did Jesus exists”. The answer amongst the majority of scholars (me included) is “YES” as a man, not what is painted so many years after his death.
Reality, Scott, Tommy Tom, stop posting under the richunix handle.
richunix, are you implying that you're a religious scholar or that you agree with other unbelievers?
Exactly – and died to redeem all of us. None of us is called on to be the judge of another person's worthiness. These Baptists need to revisit Christ's judgement of the pharisees.
Because of this, God gave them up to dishonorable passions, for even their females changed the natural use to that contrary to nature. And likewise, the males also forsaking the natural use of the female burned in their lust toward one another, males with males working out shamefulness, and receiving back within themselves the reward which was fitting for their error.
And even as they did not think fit to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right, having been filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, iniquity, covetousness, malice, being full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, becoming whisperers, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, proud, braggarts, devisers of evil things, disobedient to parents, without discernment, covenant breakers, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful, who knowing the righteous order of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but also approve those practicing them. Amen
Exactly, the desire to sodomize has to do with a reprobate mind, not genes.
So in that passage from Romans, do you think God was specifically upset with the former Christian's bi-se/xual proclivities, or was it more that they turned apostate?
Would God had been OK if it were a straight or/gy?
@Robert
Straight people engage in sodomy too.
And the men of Sodom were evil and sinners before Jehovah, exceedingly so.And Jehovah said, The cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and their sin is exceedingly heavy.And they called to Lot and said to him, Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them. And Lot went out to them, to the door, and he closed the door behind him. And he said, My brothers, please do not act evilly. And Jehovah rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from Jehovah out of the heavens. And He overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all those living in the cities, and the produce of the ground.
@One Solution
I wouldn't take the story of Lot to be a good morality tale.
God deemed Lot the only man righteous enough to be spared the destruction of those cities.
And how righteous was he? Why noble enough to toss his two vir/gin daughters over to a ravenous mob to be ra/ped. The same daughters with whom he later had a drunken, incestuous or.gy.
Let's not forget the "moral behavior" endorsed in this same Bible story: Lot gave his daughters to the mob to be gang-ra.ped to protect the male angels in his house. This is presented as a good thing.
Ah yes, those good ol' Christian values.
@doc – God hates all sin, lying, cheating, adultery, fornication, envy – if one commits fornication (whether men with men, women with women, men with women, women with men.... still fornication, ain't it?
@Kilgore Trout – your statement
Let's not forget the "moral behavior" endorsed in this same Bible story: Lot gave his daughters to the mob to be gang-ra.ped to protect the male angels in his house. This is presented as a good thing.
reply: when did two wrongs make a right...
oooh, a "reprobate mind".....how scary
you know, no one knew more about human se-xual-ity than iron age sheep mounters, nosireebob
One Solution......you have no authority to speak for god
One solution......go meet god
And to think that those sheep mounting skills have been passed down in your family through all these generations. Very impressive little Sammy.
When the American south was forced to rescind Jim Crow laws and accept racial integration, it was Baptists who most strongly opposed equality.
Wallie Criswell, an extremely popular and influential Southern Baptist Minister famously said "Let them integrate! Let them sit up there in their dirty shirts and make all their fine speeches. But they are all a bunch of infidels, dying from the neck up."
Scarcely half a century later, the zeitgeist has shifted so radically that such open racism is considered abhorrent to the very same Christian sect that spouted scripture to justify insti.tutionalized bigotry.
The prevailing Baptist condemnation of ho.mose.xuality will soon be viewed with the same sense of shame that the memory of segregation elicits.
Most can't get the girl when they're kids, so them end up as butt banging adults. It's that simple, and it's their choice.
billy boy
the only thing here that is simple is you
Ah, I see that comment hit home for you little Sammy. Doesn't that hurt, or have you built up calluses?
"Most can't get the girl when they're kids, so them end up as butt banging adults. It's that simple, and it's their choice."
Sociologists and psychologists hold that some of the emotionality in prejudice stems from subconscious attitudes that cause a person to ward off feelings of inadequacy by projecting them onto a target group. That's right folks homophobic people like this are just insecure and immature.
Nobody but faith or some other ninny could be that stupid, "billfitt." How many names have you had?
From the article – "God’s word explicitly says hômosèxuality is a choice, a sin,”
This cuts to heart of the matter. We know that sèxual orientation is no more of a choice than handedness. These fundiot nutters are purposefully choosing to be ignorant about science.
It's just sad.
Nah, there is no proof the desire to sodomize is genetic. It is a fet_ish. If fet-ishs were genetic there would have to be many thousands of fe-tish genes and such genes simply don't exist.
It certainly appears to be a choice. Ask Ann Heche. A good friend of mine was straight. His wife left him for his professor and then he turned gay.
for the two responders: if you want proof that being "gay" is genetic, try picturing yourself with your same gender; if it makes your stomache turn then you are straight, if it doesn't bother you from the pit of your stomache then you are gay or bi.
@ Guest: and you don't think there is any more to that story? no reason the wife was interested in leaving? no reason he wasn't more interested in the 20 year old co-eds?
robert: there is no evidence that being left handed is genetic, either. are you claiming that left handers are choosing to be so?
I must ask: What Would Jesus Have Done?
Shame on the Southern Baptists!!
Jesus preached repentance of sin. Liberals would call him a hatemonger.
No parent in his right mind would want to send his son out on camping trips with people who want to sodomize him. The BSA left a solid moral foundation to be politically correct. Now their numbers will dwindle as people move their children to organizations that teach good moral values.
Ah Robert. It never ceases to amaze how much people like you fantasize about sodomy.
Absolutely right Robert, ABSOLUTELY.
@Robert
Scouts Canada has been doing just fine since becoming all inclusive.
"Scouting is a world wide, multi cultural movement. We welcome people to membership regardless of gender, race, culture, religious belief, se.xual orientation or economic circ.umstances."
– From Scouts Canada. Duty of Care, February 2001, CODE OF CONDUCT FOR ADULTS
Are you really that ho/mophobic that you believe all gay people want to do is sodomize everyone?
What about lesbians?
Sounds like tarlton and ed need to get together for a little quality a nal time! Ouch!!
yeah, damn libruls
robert.....you are an imbecile
go fvck yourself
Why do these groups focus on the gay issue when the bible is so full of other ‘sins’, like adultery or eating shellfish, that are committed by the congregants of every church in America?
Like most atheists you seem to be pretty ignorant of the Bible. Christians are under the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant that the nation of Israel was under. Christians have no dietary laws.
@Robert
Since many Christians quote Leviticus 18:22 to justify ho/mophobia, it is perfectly reasonable to bring it up in a discussion about equal rights for gays.
@Robert
Like most atheists you seem to be pretty ignorant of the Bible. Christians are under the New Covenant
That's a convenient lie Robert. Jesus clearly says that the old laws still apply, and Christians always dip into the OT when they need to, so why is it any different on this issue?
@Doc Vestibule
Multiple passages in the New Testament say ga_y se_x is sin. Read the Bible before you declare yourself a Biblical scholar.
Which is why gays also choose to be atheists.
@@chad
Atheists always seem so clueless about the religions they condemn. No, Jesus made no such statement. He did say he came to establish the NEW Covenant. He FULFILLED/COMPLETED the Old Covenant with his sacrificial death. The Old Covenant is no longer in effect. Christians are under the NEW Covenant, and always have been. The church was born on the day of Pentecost after the resurrection of Christ.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
@Robert
I didn't name myself a bibilical scholar by any stretch of the imagination, but if you'd like to name the New Testament passages to which you're referring, I'd be happy to discuss them with you.
@Robert
You must be new around here.
Chad is not more an atheist than Richard Dawkins is the Pope.
@Robert
Matthew 5:17
I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.
Sounds pretty clear to me. Straight from the mouth of Jesus.
Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Austin
Actually, really, and totally, if God did something, then it is a fact. He did it regardless of what you know or don't want to know.
June 2, 2013 at 11:18 p
Austin to bad no facts or truth in your comment.
HEY HAR you too you are the one stuck in the matrix.............now do not go deleting comments !
Current search on Bing chadie ..........bookmark update chad........3rd one from top of page.
RDFRS: When Christians become a 'hated minority'
http://www.richarddawkins.net/.../5/5/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority
11,000,000 results Any time
Splat Chad/austin
This is great news. It is an unexpected byproduct of allowing gay kids into scouting. Now there will less evangelizing in scout troops. Keep religion OUT of secular activities.
You know nothing about Scouts so your comment shows you to be nothing but an idiot.
if u c someone is thirsty, do not give her a drink of cold water! religion not allowed.
EPAB
This is great news. It is an unexpected byproduct of allowing gay kids into scouting. Now there will less evangelizing in scout troops. Keep religion OUT of secular activities.
While I agree with the decision, scouting is not, and should never be a secular activity.
Good riddance? The sooner irrational belief systems die out, the better off Mankind will be.
Really? Boy the stupidity is flowing today.
Michael
Good riddance? The sooner irrational belief systems die out, the better off Mankind will be.
atheism never really got off the ground in the first place.
To Mr. Reed (Chief Shaman of the Baptist Church):
Having good moral values does not require religion, nor is religion a requirement of morality. But when “in the name of” religion a group of people attempt to promote bigotry with the guise of religion then becomes a religion of hate. I would recommend that your members have a mass exodus from the church. Someday when man realizes the folly of religion then man will grow.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but is not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why is he called GOD?
-Epicurus 33 CE
Stephen F Roberts: “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
lol
Atheists seem to be such irrational people. God choosing to allow you free will to do what is right or to do what is wrong in no ways implies he is no omnipotent. I means he chose to allow you to do stuff that he does not approve of.
But one day when a person stands before God he will be held accountable for the wrong he has done.
@robert: free will under a dictoator doesn't exsist. it's an illusion.
your god is suppose to know all, see all, and be everywhere at the same time, correct?
so that means that your god knew even before the "beginning" when some perve in the church would molest little boys, yet did nothing to prevent it.
that also means seeing he didn't stop it from happening and that he also watched it happen along with being there in person to do so.
that just makes your god a heartless pr1ck for standing there and not stopping all the things wrong in the world, seeing he is suppose to be all loving and all powerful.
next item up for bid: at what point did god create evil?
seeing "in the beginning there was the word and the word was god" where exactly did lucifer and 2/3rd of god's angels learn evil?
did it always exsist? then your god isn't all powerful because he could have defeated evil before anything was even created.
if your god chose to allow evil, then he himself is evil.
God is fully capable and able to do all the things you ask. He gave us free will, as his choice. Some choose to follow his word, others choose to ignore it, or even discount it. Saying God doesn't exist won't make him go away. He is, was, and forever will be God!
WASP
@robert: free will under a dictoator doesn't exsist. it's an illusion.
god is so powerful he cannot set aside his power to allow others to do what they choose to do?
can an all powerful god; turn off his all powerfulness?
if he did that would he even be all powerful?
can god stop knowing what everyone at any given second is doing?
would he be all knowing if he did?
can god stop being everywhere at once?
would he even be a god if he did that?
answer to all is no, he wouldn't be a god without all his powers.
so the answer is no he can't stop from having a stray thought and exterminating everything.
let's not even get started on the fact that "the god idea" can't exsist in our reality, his very being would violate every known law of physics. so no your god as all gods are fake.