May 31st, 2013
04:19 PM ET
Baptists plan exodus from Boy Scouts
By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
(CNN) - For Southern Baptist pastor Tim Reed, it was Scripture versus the Scouts.
“God’s word explicitly says homosexuality is a choice, a sin,” said Reed, pastor of First Baptist Church of Gravel Ridge in Jacksonville, Arkansas.
So when the Boy Scouts of America voted to lift its ban on openly gay youths on May 24, Reed said the church had no choice but to cut its charter with Troop 542.
“It’s not a hate thing here,” Reed told CNN affiliate Fox 16. “It’s a moral stance we must take as a Southern Baptist church.”
Southern Baptist leaders say Reed is not alone.
Baptist churches sponsor nearly 4,000 Scout units representing more than 100,000 youths, according to the Boy Scouts of America.
That number could drop precipitously.
The Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s largest Protestant denomination, will soon urge its 45,000 congregations and 16 million members to cut ties with the Scouts, according to church leaders.
The denomination will vote on nonbinding but influential resolutions during a convention June 11-12 in Houston.
“There’s a 100% chance that there will be a resolution about disaffiliation at the convention,” said Richard Land, the outgoing head of the Southern Baptists’ Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, “and a 100% chance that 99% of people will vote for it.”
“Southern Baptists are going to be leaving the Boy Scouts en masse,” Land continued.
Roger “Sing” Oldham, a spokesman for the Southern Baptist Convention, emphasized that local congregations make their own decision on the Scouts.
But he, too, said he expects Baptist delegates, which the church calls “messengers,” to voice their disagreement with the BSA's decision to allow gay youths.
“With this policy change, the Boy Scouts’ values are contradictory to the basic values of our local churches,” Oldham said.
Several religious groups with strong Scouting ties support the new policy.
“We have heard from both those who support the amended policy and those who would have preferred it would not have changed,” said BSA spokesman Deron Smith.
Faith-based organizations charter more than 70% of Scout chapters, providing meeting space and leadership, according to the BSA.
“There have been some organizations that have decided not to renew their charters with Scouting," said Smith, "but we can’t quantify the impact of the amended policy."
The National Jewish Committee on Scouting, the United Church of Christ, the Episcopal Church, the Unitarian Universalist Association and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which sponsors more Scout units than any other faith, all endorsed the change.
The National Catholic Committee on Scouting, which is run with oversight from a bishop, said Thursday that allowing gay youths in the Scouts does not conflict with church teaching. Each bishop will decide whether or not to allow churches in his diocese to charter Scout units, the committee added.
“We ask that Catholic Scouters and chartered organization heads not rush to judgment,” said Edward Martin, chairman of the National Catholic Committee on Scouting.
But the Rev. Derek Lappe, pastor of the Our Lady Star of the Sea Catholic Church in Bremerton, Washington, has already made up his mind.
“I do not feel that it is possible for us to live out, and to teach, the authentic truth about human sexuality within the confines of the Boy Scout’s new policy,” said Lappe.
The priest told CNN affiliate FOX16 that his parish will part ways with the Scouts and develop its own programs.
There may soon be an alternative to the Scouts for social conservatives like Lappe.
John Stemberger, founder of On My Honor, a group that opposed the Scouts’ change in policy, plans to convene conservatives in Louisville, Kentucky, in June to consider forming a new Scout-like group, which could be up and running by the end of 2013.
“Churches and Scoutmasters are looking for leadership and direction,” said Stemberg, an attorney in Orlando, Florida.
A number of conservative religious denominations already sponsor their own groups.
For instance, the Southern Baptists have the Royal Ambassadors, an explicitly Christian program founded in 1908 for boys in first through sixth grade. (A similar group called Challengers equips older boys in “mission education.”)
The name comes from the New Testament, in which the Apostle Paul tells Christians to be “ambassadors for Christ.”
The estimated 31,000 Royal Ambassadors pledge “ to become a well-informed, responsible follower of Christ; to have a Christlike concern for all people; to learn how to carry the message of Christ around the world; to work with others in sharing Christ; and to keep myself clean and healthy in mind and body."
While not as outdoorsy as the Boy Scouts, Ambassadors do camp and play sports, said Land, who was a member of the group during the 1950s. But instead of merit badges for archery and bird study, young Ambassadors earn patches for memorizing Bible verses and mission work.
Southern Baptists said they are preparing for a surge of interest in the Royal Ambassadors at their upcoming convention in Houston.
“We really have an opportunity here to strengthen our RA programs,” the Rev. Ernest Easley, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee, said in a sermon last Sunday, “and to get the boys in a program where they’re going to be protected, where there’s a high moral standard and where they will have an opportunity to learn about camping, missions, evangelism in the local church.”
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About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
The SBC does understand that the BSA accepts people of any religious faith, right? Boy Scouts don't have to be christian. They don't even have to be monotheistic. Hell, their religion doesn't even have to have a true deity. So these churches will allow Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Scientologists, and people of any other religion to come in and use their facilities...but gays...no, they can't let the gays into their buildings. According to Baptist faith, literally everyone who is not christian is going to Hell, no if's, and's, or but's about it, yet it doesn't bother them that the BSA accepts them and may even bring them into their churches when they use their facilities. But gays, even if they are christian, are not welcome to be affiliated with the church. It's so bonkers it makes me dizzy.
We have a pretty good idea that you were dizzy already.
I wonder what it feels like to have your hate used for a vote so the Republican rich can have even more money!
It's all about MONEY. This is a recruiting drive. The cult-of-Westboro, worshippers of hate, are trying to draw in other haters. Gay-bashing is certainly cowardly (an 'enemy' that needs to hide in the shadows won't fight back, right?) Their cynical aim is as simple as that. If they ever serve the lord, it is as a bad example. On the positive side, it is a tiny step above burning witches or lynching run-away slaves, and supporting eugenics. Who says they can't evolve?
It's nice that TRUE follows of God who carry his message of love and treating others as he really teaches stand by this decision. The belief in a God filled with hate, anger, and judgement for those who treat each other with dignity has no place in any place of worship. Those who claim to truly understand the Bible need to wake up and have respect for his fellow man and woman as God and Jesus have shown again and again in their teachings.
If you gays would quit twinkle toeing around and bragging about banging your brother and such, then maybe everyone could get along? Naw, with the hatred and bigotry of you people, I doubt that will ever happen.
So billfittpatrick, did you do your brother, or did your brother do you? Just curious about what has made you so angry, ignorant and unwilling to become educated. . .
"If you gays would quit twinkle toeing around and bragging about banging your brother and such"
When heteros no longer brag about their s-xual conquests, then you will BEGIN to have credibility. Until then, it's all HYPOCRISY.
Your assumption that I'm gay is a sure sign of your problem of ignorance. Personal attacks are the filler of someone who has little argument to make. When I go to church weekly like a growing majority of the people in this country and many others we see God's word to mean more then just damnation, sin, and hate.
"...........place of worship............"?? Like worship services??
"Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service."
That happens throughout the week. Sundays are for feasting. Don't let anybody not in the family reunion sneak in and steal the food.
Many people paint Jesus and God in a light that makes a Mafia Boss look like Mary Poppins. I'm Sorry if you disagree but you may find out later they are far more accepting and less vindictive, and hateful then so many make them out to be....
This may be the single biggest piece of nonsense posted on this entire, ridiculous, thread.
The only difference between atheists and Christians is where their faith is placed. Their childish tactics however are straight from the same playbook.
Whose childish tactics?
We don't have "faith" in our convictions, just the confidence that comes with knowing that science and logic are superior means towards finding the truth of now the natural world works. It's not faith when you have evidence to back up your conclusions.
And what playbook might that be? Conclusions based on 21st century reviews of the appropriate docu-ments and archeology? Some references to these doc-uments and studies for your perusal:
o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.
2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
– a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication–
30-60 CE Passion Narrative
40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
50-60 1 Thessalonians
50-60 1 Corinthians
50-60 2 Corinthians
50-90 Signs Gospel
50-95 Book of Hebrews
50-140 Gospel of Thomas
50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
65-80 Gospel of Mark
70-100 Epistle of James
70-120 Egerton Gospel
70-160 Gospel of Peter
70-160 Secret Mark
70-200 Fayyum Fragment
70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
80-100 2 Thessalonians
80-100 Gospel of Matthew
80-110 1 Peter
80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
80-130 Gospel of Luke
80-130 Acts of the Apostles
80-140 1 Clement
80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
80-250 Christian Sibyllines
90-95 Apocalypse of John
90-120 Gospel of John
90-120 1 John
90-120 2 John
90-120 3 John
90-120 Epistle of Jude
93 Flavius Josephus
100-150 1 Timothy
100-150 2 Timothy
100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
100-150 Secret Book of James
100-150 Preaching of Peter
100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
100-160 2 Peter
3. Historical Jesus Studies, faithfutures.org/HJstudies.html,
– "an extensive and constantly expanding literature on historical research into the person and cultural context of Jesus of Nazareth"
4. Jesus Database, faithfutures.org/JDB/intro.html–"The JESUS DATABASE is an online annotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm
6. The Jesus Seminar, mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/seminar.html#Criteria
7. Writing the New Testament- mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/testament.html
8. Health and Healing in the Land of Israel By Joe Zias
9. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.
Added references are available upon written request.
You said, "The only difference between atheists and Christians is where their faith is placed. Their childish tactics however are straight from the same playbook."
Bullshit. Atheists no longer believe in imaginary creatures like the Tooth Fairy. There is a very simple way to convince an atheist. All you need to do is show why your god is any different from the Easter Bunny.
I'm not even asking you to give up your infantile beliefs. You are free to remain as ignorant as you want. All I demand is that you keep your nonsense out of the lives of others.
Oh, and if you elect to display your ignorance on a public forum such as this, you should expect to get called on it.
Hate to burst your bubble LinDA but I'm an atheist. Thanks for proving my point though.
Sorry. LinCA. auto correct wanted you to be LinDA.
You said, "Hate to burst your bubble LinDA but I'm an atheist. Thanks for proving my point though."
No problem about the auto correct.
I doubt I proved your point though. You claimed atheists to have faith. While some do (you may, since you seem claim they do), most here don't. Still you are free to believe whatever you want, just like believers on the other side, just don't tell me that you know there is (or isn't, as the case may be) a god, without providing evidence.
The biggest difference between atheists (most, anyway) and believers (most, anyway), is that atheists disappear if there aren't any ridiculous god claims being made. The only reason that there are atheists is because of the intrusion of religion in the lives of others. There are far more people who don't believe in the Tooth fairy, but nobody has felt the need to coin a term for them. the reason is that the believers in the Tooth Fairy seem to be better at keeping their beliefs to themselves, and not force them on others.
You're right. The atheist bigoted gays are so childish, but their hatefulness toward normals is so bad that it'simply out of this world. So sad!!
Belief in imaginary supernatural beings is not normal. It's merely the accepted result of centuries of parental and societal indoctrination without a single fact to support any of the claims, alleged gods and unproven miracles.
matt: why do you claim that atheism is a matter of faith?
@matt: there is a logic flaw in your comparison of theist to atheist.
theists have faith in a higher power.
atheist.............well in my case i only think about a higher power when either
(A) a theist bothers me with their ideals or
(B) i'm bord at work and just want to get a reaction out of someone. XD
Anyone can call themselves an atheist, but claiming that it takes faith to be one says a lot about the person making the claim. It does not take any more faith to not accept the fantastical claims of today’s religions, than it does to not accept bigfoot claims.
From the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”
o "Abrahamics" believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.
"Most scientists who study human se-xuality agree that gay people are born that way. But that consensus raises an evolutionary puzzle: How do genes associated with h-omose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?"
And then there is this:
The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:
“ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice. "
And then this:
"Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8
Freud had a wet nurse and he was prone to jumping to conclusions. Have a toke of coke on him.
"“The most striking feature of ‘Über Coca’ is how Sigmund incorporates his own feelings, sensations and experiences into his scientific observations,”
“An Anatomy of Addiction,” Howard Markel
Lol??, one doesn't CHOOSE to be gay, but one CAN choose to be a bigot.
It amazes me that people use the Bible to justify every petty and stupid argument they have against anyone else.
You said, "It amazes me that people use the Bible to justify every petty and stupid argument they have against anyone else."
It's a pretty convinient excuse.
Freedom of religion means that whatever bullshit they claim to believe is fair. Telling them they are full of shit is readily framed as an attack on their religious freedom. And it's easy to get their fellow sheeple to carry the torch and jump on the bandwagon.
While I am sure there are many that use the bible to justify, most likely most just use it as an excuse.
Christianity gets the blame for the actions of a few.
I am a Christian that has argued extensively FOR Gay rights on the NBC site and yesterday here.
I work with several people that are not religious in any way, they hate Gays. Religion plays no part in their hate it is the so called ick factor.
Before attacking all Christians for the extremists please remember that Lutherans, Methodists, Unitarians, Episcopalians, and many more have Gay Members in their clergy.
Of course not every christian uses the bible to smack others over the head, but there is little denying that a lot of them do. It probably even isn't a majority that does, but even one is one too many.
That's what makes the bible so great. No matter what your stance is on something, there is a passage that supports or condemns it, so it's the be-all and end-all of debate material.
"so it's the be-all and end-all of debate material."
The Bible is primarily a book of religion, a guide to faith. it was not a book of history, poetry, economics, or science. It contains all sorts of literary genre, which are used to teach about the relationship between God and mankind. Even biblical history is edited history: events were chosen to illustrate the central theme of the Bible. The Biblical writers did not pretend they were giving a complete history; instead they constantly refer us to other sources for full historical details, sources such as "The Annals of the Kings of Judah" (or Israel).
It is therefore not possible to try to "prove" the Bible by means of checking its historical or scientific accuracy. The only "proof" to which it can be subjected is this: Does it correctly portray the God-human relationship? In the best analysis, the Bible is a religious book, not an historical document.
Frank Reed Horton, the founder of Alpha Phi Omega, would just shake his head at all of these adults not getting along because of religion. He noted that boys of all faiths were able to work together and get along, while still able to practice his faith on his own. That was part of the reason why he based Alpha Phi Omega on Scouting principles.
But you will also note that Alpha Phi Omega does not discriminate. The only thing required to join as an Active is to be in a college or university that has a chapter, and to fulfill the requirements of membership that the chapter requests.
Robert Brown and his ilk are amusing. They imagine themselves as some sort of crusaders who are here to save us all from ourselves. Funny thing, though, they're the ones with the outsize egos. So sure of themselves and their interpretation of god's will and mind.
It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
Don't let bigotry get the best of you. Fight back!
Top 20 Bible Passages to Use Against Fundamentalists
I'm no bible student but I'd be surprised if that book was supposed to be used as a weapon.
Oh it's a weapon alright. Just turn it on your true enemy and watch the fire fight.
"what was that? bigot?"
"don't call me a bigot phag!"
"then quit calling me a phag you bigot!"
"well you are one aren't you?"
"I am gay but you are using a derogatory and demeaning word and tone."
"so your'e a phag then, i just call it like I see it..."
"and you are a bigot!"
"no i'm not, God hates phags"
"I do not care what your God thinks, you are the bigot!"
"take that back phag!"
"HINDU FILTHY ISLAM FILTH FILTH FILTH"
"Hey, how did you get in here!"
"What research have you done to believe you are in here?"
"Science..... only leads to my links below...."
"where'd that phag go?"
"HINDU ISLAM FILTH I THINK HE WENT THAT WAY->"
"Science ... probably going to do something more fulfilling with his life..."
"hehe, full filling, hehe..."
More or less.
Other atheists are starting to annoy me as much as "Christians" do.
Hi My name is Austin and Im a pervert. im an open pervert. openly perverted.
ohhhhhhh. coooool! thats so real.
billfittpatrick, again, what is with your oral-genital fixation? You and your fellow gay bashers go on about oral s3x more than all others combined. I think you're in serious need of a BJ, but probably haven't saved enough of your weekly allowance from your parents to even pay for the phone call. Or you're so ugly you'll never have enough.
Fortunately, there are some good Straight people out there with a great soul who see things with a Loving heart instead of with scorn, hate, and intolerance!
Straight Not Narrow-Presenting Jesus Beyond the Walls
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Your own book for once gives some actually appropriate good advice!
They call them sinners, yet according to their own religion they themselves are all sinners. I can smell the dumb from here!
The bible often gives good advice. Most Christians just ignore it.
We are all sinners. God either judges or forgives sinners.
Well, then, Robert, why do you think he needs you to shill for him? Go blow.
I’m ok, you’re ok.
I’m not ok, you’re not ok.
One of us is ok and one of us isn’t.
I'm just fine. You? You decide. Either you're a sick fvck or you're not. If you're not, you'll figure out that your beliefs aren't the only valid ones and they're not the end-all and be-all you thought they were. If you are, you will continue to be a dickwad.
The real Tom,
I'm just fine. You? You decide. Either you're lost or you're not. If you're not you will repent and stop attacking other believers. If you are, you will continue to be a lost and maybe you'll figure out that your beliefs aren't the only valid ones and they're not the end-all and be-all you thought they were..
Robbie, honey, you are an idiot. I don't attack believers; I attack sanctimonious assholes. Like you. You're nothing but a jerk who wraps himself in the bible and pretends it excuses his hate and hypocrisy.
I don't need you or anyone else to "save" me. I'm fine. I live an ethical, moral life, which is more than you can say.
If we were sheep, then perhaps we'd be lost. We are human beings. We look out for ourselves and each other.
Robert the Boob must have just gotten home from a church service. He's all full of himself and his understanding of god's will. The ego, it inflates.
The real Tom,
Finally you answered the question, you’re ok and I’m not. Thanks.
By the way, I haven’t expressed any hatred toward anyone. Also, you have an interesting form of ethics and morality. You should read some of the things you post.
I do read them. You, unfortunately, mistake words for actions. Explains much, you impotent little jackwit.
Tom, Tom, the Other One,
Yes, we are all in the human family according to the flesh and some look out for others. Spiritually, we are either in the sheep fold or lost.
I think there's a song in that, maybe just a new part to an old one:
I'd rather be a meerkat that a sheep
Yes I would
If I could
I surely would
Oh, never mind...
I'm not lost and I'm not a muttonhead,either. Sorry about you, Robert. Baaaah Bye.
Tom. Chill. What's with that tone?
@Tom, Tom, the Other One
Channeling a little Simon And Garfunkel, there?
robert: the threat of judgement is a bad joke played on mankind. apparently one you swallowed hook, line and sinker.
I don't think anyone thinks listening to Christians about how the world should work. You folks had your chance and what did you do with it? The Dark Ages.
Those were Viking Doctrines, dude. How do you know whether you are living in the light, now??
What do Vikings, who weren't Christians, have to do with anything?
Well, gosh, I guess the Chard is still pondering what he'd do if he spotted rocks under the surface of the water where Jesus was treading..
Funny how the Vegetable just fades off when he can't come up with a response unless it involves a lie.
Give him time, give him time.
Oh, I have no doubt he'll hoist himself on his own petard, Athy. He just won't realize or acknowledge that he's done so.
Baptists leaving the Boy Scouts. How exactly is this a problem?
Problem? Shit, it's more like a solution!
If it came down to enrolling my child into an organization that supported tolerance of all people and one that supported discrimination and narrow mindedness, I would choose the Boy Scouts. I think their decision in the long run will help them be a stronger wider appealing organization not only based on REAL moral values but inclusiveness and reason. It will be looked back on in with bravery that they chose to land on the right side of history.
I can only hope people like you outnumber idiots like B Schmitt.
This would be great if they were really tolerating all people. They are actually still planning to keep kicking out the lesbian mom cub scout leaders and atheist kids just like before.
I hope that will change, Sara. I think the BSA will receive support from factions that will propel its leadership into the 21st century where it will leave behind the intolerance and prejudice that have characterized it up to the present time.
Then again, I've had a couple of glasses of wine, so I'm optimistic...
@real Tom, You may well be right. It's hard to imagine things remaining the same in 20 or 30 years. The god stance is international, though the Netherlands has led the way with an exemption. It's hard to imagine the scouts surviving inEurope with that old religious stance.
This is certainly a big step and more progress is needed, we just need to keep pushing.
If the BSA doesn't survive, I really don't think it will be because of this issue or point in time. The scouting model has been in decline for some time and it may well be about to end. But that won't be because they've lost the stupid Baptists of the Southern Cause. It will be because our society is changing and scouting is no longer relevant or meaningful for enough kids to sustain the organization.
I have heard of the lesbian mom, Saraswati, but just how do the BSA see that she would be a threat to Male scouts?
Because the lesbian mom is gay. Makes no sense; everyone knows you can't "catch" gay, but there it is. It is against their policy to let gay adults be leaders.
It was never the gay leaders who were the threat, but the heteo pedophilic ones. They need to check out of sterotypeland and into reality.
They're too fvcking stooopit to "figure it out." That's why we laugh at them.
The BSA reule was never there because of a percieved threat to the scouts; it was always part of the morality clause. The apologists just pulled out the threat argument in the last couple of years out of desparation when people no loger were buying the morality line.
Scientists Find Oldest Dinosaur - Or Closest Relative Yet
Dec. 5, 2012 — Researchers have discovered what may be the earliest dinosaur, a creature the size of a Labrador retriever, but with a five foot-long tail, that walked the Earth about 10 million years before more familiar dinosaurs like the small, swift-footed Eoraptor and Herrerasaurus.
Chad goes splat with the crickets !!!
Be the best you can, Do the best you can,
Love God and live a purpose driven , sinless life as much as you can!
Dill Doe says: "Jeremy, don't you know? Anyone who has ever done anything remotely positive was secretly gaay."
Well, then, Dill, we certainly know you aren't gay, don't we?
I'm still waiting for Chard to tell us what would happen if he could take the Wayback machine to 1 AD. What would happen if he was there and saw that not one of the accounts in the bible was accurate; that it was all made up? Would he stop believing then?