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May 31st, 2013
04:19 PM ET
Baptists plan exodus from Boy ScoutsBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - For Southern Baptist pastor Tim Reed, it was Scripture versus the Scouts. “God’s word explicitly says homosexuality is a choice, a sin,” said Reed, pastor of First Baptist Church of Gravel Ridge in Jacksonville, Arkansas. So when the Boy Scouts of America voted to lift its ban on openly gay youths on May 24, Reed said the church had no choice but to cut its charter with Troop 542. “It’s not a hate thing here,” Reed told CNN affiliate Fox 16. “It’s a moral stance we must take as a Southern Baptist church.” Southern Baptist leaders say Reed is not alone. Baptist churches sponsor nearly 4,000 Scout units representing more than 100,000 youths, according to the Boy Scouts of America. That number could drop precipitously. The Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s largest Protestant denomination, will soon urge its 45,000 congregations and 16 million members to cut ties with the Scouts, according to church leaders. The denomination will vote on nonbinding but influential resolutions during a convention June 11-12 in Houston. “There’s a 100% chance that there will be a resolution about disaffiliation at the convention,” said Richard Land, the outgoing head of the Southern Baptists’ Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, “and a 100% chance that 99% of people will vote for it.” “Southern Baptists are going to be leaving the Boy Scouts en masse,” Land continued. Roger “Sing” Oldham, a spokesman for the Southern Baptist Convention, emphasized that local congregations make their own decision on the Scouts. But he, too, said he expects Baptist delegates, which the church calls “messengers,” to voice their disagreement with the BSA's decision to allow gay youths. “With this policy change, the Boy Scouts’ values are contradictory to the basic values of our local churches,” Oldham said. Several religious groups with strong Scouting ties support the new policy. “We have heard from both those who support the amended policy and those who would have preferred it would not have changed,” said BSA spokesman Deron Smith. Faith-based organizations charter more than 70% of Scout chapters, providing meeting space and leadership, according to the BSA. “There have been some organizations that have decided not to renew their charters with Scouting," said Smith, "but we can’t quantify the impact of the amended policy." The National Jewish Committee on Scouting, the United Church of Christ, the Episcopal Church, the Unitarian Universalist Association and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which sponsors more Scout units than any other faith, all endorsed the change. The National Catholic Committee on Scouting, which is run with oversight from a bishop, said Thursday that allowing gay youths in the Scouts does not conflict with church teaching. Each bishop will decide whether or not to allow churches in his diocese to charter Scout units, the committee added. “We ask that Catholic Scouters and chartered organization heads not rush to judgment,” said Edward Martin, chairman of the National Catholic Committee on Scouting. But the Rev. Derek Lappe, pastor of the Our Lady Star of the Sea Catholic Church in Bremerton, Washington, has already made up his mind. “I do not feel that it is possible for us to live out, and to teach, the authentic truth about human sexuality within the confines of the Boy Scout’s new policy,” said Lappe. The priest told CNN affiliate FOX16 that his parish will part ways with the Scouts and develop its own programs. There may soon be an alternative to the Scouts for social conservatives like Lappe. John Stemberger, founder of On My Honor, a group that opposed the Scouts’ change in policy, plans to convene conservatives in Louisville, Kentucky, in June to consider forming a new Scout-like group, which could be up and running by the end of 2013. “Churches and Scoutmasters are looking for leadership and direction,” said Stemberg, an attorney in Orlando, Florida. A number of conservative religious denominations already sponsor their own groups. For instance, the Southern Baptists have the Royal Ambassadors, an explicitly Christian program founded in 1908 for boys in first through sixth grade. (A similar group called Challengers equips older boys in “mission education.”) The name comes from the New Testament, in which the Apostle Paul tells Christians to be “ambassadors for Christ.” The estimated 31,000 Royal Ambassadors pledge “ to become a well-informed, responsible follower of Christ; to have a Christlike concern for all people; to learn how to carry the message of Christ around the world; to work with others in sharing Christ; and to keep myself clean and healthy in mind and body." While not as outdoorsy as the Boy Scouts, Ambassadors do camp and play sports, said Land, who was a member of the group during the 1950s. But instead of merit badges for archery and bird study, young Ambassadors earn patches for memorizing Bible verses and mission work. Southern Baptists said they are preparing for a surge of interest in the Royal Ambassadors at their upcoming convention in Houston. “We really have an opportunity here to strengthen our RA programs,” the Rev. Ernest Easley, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee, said in a sermon last Sunday, “and to get the boys in a program where they’re going to be protected, where there’s a high moral standard and where they will have an opportunity to learn about camping, missions, evangelism in the local church.” soundoff (10,821 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 Next » |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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I have never had any respect for the baptists... these are the same arrogant, human garbage who would rather build a big church to show off on Sunday than actually help someone in need.
Scouts will be better off without people who breed hate and prejudice and fear from ignorance. I am going to keep my kids in scouting and teach them to respect human beings
I agree completely
A dose of reality
A few questions should help shed light on the relationship between religion and rational thought.
The completely absurd theory that all 7,000,000,000 human beings are simultaneously being supervised 24 hours a day, every day of their lives by an immortal, invisible being for the purposes of reward or punishment in the “afterlife” comes from the field of:
(a) Astronomy;
(b) Medicine;
(c) Economics; or
(d) Christianity
You are about 70% likely to believe the entire Universe began less than 10,000 years ago with only one man, one woman and a talking snake if you are a:
(a) historian;
(b) geologist;
(c) NASA astronomer; or
(d) Christian
I have convinced myself that gay $ex is a choice and not genetic, but then have no explanation as to why only gay people have ho.mo$exual urges. I am
(a) A gifted psychologist
(b) A well respected geneticist
(c) A highly educated sociologist
(d) A Christian with the remarkable ability to ignore inconvenient facts.
I honestly believe that, when I think silent thoughts like, “please god, help me pass my exam tomorrow,” some invisible being is reading my mind and will intervene and alter what would otherwise be the course of history in small ways to help me. I am
(a) a delusional schizophrenic;
(b) a naïve child, too young to know that that is silly
(c) an ignorant farmer from Sudan who never had the benefit of even a fifth grade education; or
(d) your average Christian
Millions and millions of Catholics believe that bread and wine turns into the actual flesh and blood of a dead Jew from 2,000 years ago because:
(a) there are obvious visible changes in the condiments after the Catholic priest does his hocus pocus;
(b) tests have confirmed a divine presence in the bread and wine;
(c) now and then their god shows up and confirms this story; or
(d) their religious convictions tell them to blindly accept this completely fvcking absurd nonsense.
I believe that an all powerful being, capable of creating the entire cosmos watches me have $ex to make sure I don't do anything "naughty". I am
(a) A victim of child molestation
(b) A r.ape victim trying to recover
(c) A mental patient with paranoid delusions
(d) A Christian
The only discipline known to often cause people to kill others they have never met and/or to commit suicide in its furtherance is:
(a) Architecture;
(b) Philosophy;
(c) Archeology; or
(d) Religion
What is it that most differentiates science and all other intellectual disciplines from religion:
(a) Religion tells people not only what they should believe, but what they are morally obliged to believe on pain of divine retribution, whereas science, economics, medicine etc. has no “sacred cows” in terms of doctrine and go where the evidence leads them;
(b) Religion can make a statement, such as “there is a composite god comprised of God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit”, and be totally immune from experimentation and challenge, whereas science can only make factual assertions when supported by considerable evidence;
(c) Science and the scientific method is universal and consistent all over the World whereas religion is regional and a person’s religious conviction, no matter how deeply held, is clearly nothing more than an accident of birth; or
(d) All of the above.
If I am found wandering the streets flagellating myself, wading into a filth river, mutilating my child’s genitals or kneeling down in a church believing that a being is somehow reading my inner thoughts and prayers, I am likely driven by:
(a) a deep psychiatric issue;
(b) an irrational fear or phobia;
(c) a severe mental degeneration caused by years of drug abuse; or
(d) my religious belief.
Who am I? I don’t pay any taxes. I never have. Any money my organization earns is tax free and my own salary is also tax free, at the federal, state and local level. Despite contributing nothing to society, but still enjoying all its benefits, I feel I have the right to tell others what to do. I am
(a) A sleazy Wall Street banker
(b) A mafia boss
(c) A drug pusher; or
(d) A Catholic Priest, Protestant Minister or Jewish Rabbi.
What do the following authors all have in common – Jean Paul Sartre, Voltaire, Denis Diderot, Victor Hugo, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Immanuel Kant, David Hume, René Descartes, Francis Bacon, John Milton, John Locke, and Blaise Pascal:
(a) They are among the most gifted writers the World has known;
(b) They concentrated on opposing dogma and opening the human mind and spirit to the wonders of free thought and intellectual freedom;
(c) They were intimidated by the Catholic Church and put on the Church’s list of prohibited authors; or
(d) All of the above.
The AIDS epidemic will kill tens of millions in poor African and South American countries before we defeat it. Condoms are an effective way to curtail its spread. As the Pope still has significant influence over the less educated masses in these parts of the World, he has exercised this power by:
(a) Using some of the Vatican’s incomprehensible wealth to educate these vulnerable people on health family planning and condom use;
(b) Supporting government programs that distribute condoms to high risk groups;
(c) Using its myriad of churches in these regions to distribute condoms; or
(d) Scaring people into NOT using condoms, based upon his disdainful and aloof view that it is better that a person die than go against the Vatican’s position on contraceptive use.
You must be outta something to do.
I couldn't have said it better. I was laughing so hard I almost fell out of my chair.
Lou, you are missing it. Do you honestly not know better?
But you omitted what is perhaps the biggest "dose of reality":
I fully adhere to the tenet that life on this planet, with all of its vast complexities on both the micro and macro level, resulted SOLELYfrom natural processes in conjunction with time and chance.
(a) Baptists
(b) Catholics
(c) Presbyterians
(d) Delusional Atheists
BRILLIANT!!
Poor devin. You think it's more reasonable to believe that some giant fairy "poofed" everything into existence? What a boob.
No real Tom, created not "poofed".
I like it ... "po'ofed" ... so god far'ted us all into existence, right? Yep, makes sense to me!!!
How do you know it wasn't "poofed", you git? Were you there? Was anyone? No, some ancient made up a story to explain how the universe came to be and you like it better than not knowing. That's because you can't deal with uncertainty. I can. I am fine with not knowing yet, or perhaps never knowing. I prefer that to easy lies.
realTom. Just out of curiosity, laying aside the bravado about "the sky fairy" "flying spaghetti monster" etc., why do you find it such an anomaly to believe that there could be a being outside our natural order who has created everything, and at the same time revealed information about himself?
Why do you assume it's a "him," devin?
Why do you assume the universe "must have been" created? Based on what scientific knowledge?
This is the dilemma. Yours is a world in which truth is determined solely through rationalism and the scientific method. Mine is one in which science and reason do not exclude the possibility of a super natural order.
I haven't excluded it. I simply see no evidence for it. I do see a great deal of evidence for evolution.
Can you produce any evidence of the existence of a creator? Do so; I'll be happy to look at it.
You have failed to answer my other question, and that's pretty telling. Why do you assume your god is a "he"?
Sorry, didn't mean to "not answer your question" it just seemed rather trite and thought it was just subterfuge. Of course you already know my answer. As a Christian I believed God has chosen to reveal information about Himself through the written word, and in that written word ( scripture) God is referenced in the male gender. Scripture is also clear that God is spirit and not in human form, meaning any gender reference is simply an anthropomorphism.
Jesus would be ashamed of these Baptist bigots
Who Did the Visitors Tell of Jesus’ Empty Tomb?
Matthew 28:8: So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me."
The visitors were overjoyed, and they ran to tell the disciples
Mark 16:8: Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.
They were afraid, and told no one.
Luke 24:9: When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others.
They told the eleven and others.
John 20:10: Then the disciples went back to their homes, but Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.
Mary informed Simon and the other disciple about the empty tomb, then she remained at the tomb crying.
baptists an Catholics are the left and right wings of Nut job religions.
Nop different than the Muslim!
Issues in the Garden
Genesis 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
Genesis 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
Which raises the question, how can an omnipotent, omniscient God create something he’s not pleased with?
Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
An omnipotent being required…rest?
baptists are no different than Muslims.
All nut jobs telling people how to lead their lives. This is why you need to give up on religion,
Hmmmmm....admitting gays into the Boy Scouts did lead to vast improvements.....
And people wonder why I left the Southern Baptists for the Episcopal church.
You're almost there. Why not just leave organized religion all together? Why is it required?
nothing wrong with the rigors of spiritual discipline. I don't go the route where you have it all on a schedule.
Church for me is more about worship and praise. Honoring God with the congregation in praise. religious activity is more along the lines of a daily devotion, or reading the word, and that doesn't qualify as organized religion. someone is just reading or they are investing their soul in God's word.
"And people wonder why I left the Southern Baptists for the Episcopal church." – kind of like giving up hamburger for ground beef.
Austin, the reason you love worship so much is because you're lonely and scared. Being in a group of people and joining in their activities makes you feel you belong. Too bad your church wants to exclude some people and deny them what you get from your club.
That's fine, go ahead an leave. I find it a little hypocritical (and extremely humorous) that people that belong to a church sect that exists solely because it broke away from the main Baptist church in the 1840's because they thought it was ok with God to OWN ANOTHER HUMAN BEING think they occupy the 'moral high ground'? Please. And WHEN did the church officially apologize for it's stance on slavery? Eighteen years ago. That's right...IN 1995. You were wrong then, and you're wrong now. Your whole church is built on hate. Live with that.
not hate. if you read the paslms you read how David was anxious for the Lord's judgments, because this is the force of correction. This is a sanctifying process. The faith that the Holy Spirit gives has the character to motivate one to overcome, and to turn away from sin.
You go Sean! You know it is mostly based on the simplest theory of "do as I say, not as I do.....
Austin: If the Psalms are in the Old Testament an d they no longer matter, why are you being a hypocrite and using them? How are those delusions working for you? Have you been able to get JREF to test you so you will finally know that your dreams are nothing but dreams and not evidence of your imaginary friend?
God will work when He wants. Sign me up. YOu know where to get ahold of me.
The Lord our Provider, Jehovah Jireh, provided faith in my life. There is no doubt or skeptical questioning as to the reality of God. Where you are at in doing this is a type of action you take as a response to the churcning of mentally obstinate hobby.
I still like you.
Science and the scientific method is universal and consistent all over the World whereas religion is regional and a person’s religious conviction, no matter how deeply held, is clearly nothing more than an accident of birth
FAITH
is believing in a God that you know for a fact is not real.
Wrong!!! Faith is a doubtless believe in anything, including GOD.
Wrong!!! Faith is a doubtless belief in anything, including GOD
Remember every child ever born on this planet was born an atheist. The particular version of religion that someone is taught is determined by their geographical location.
This is one of the most ridiculous controversies out there. There is no way I would ever let my kids join this silly organization. The ironic thing is, when I was in school. only the gay kids did Boy Scouts. The popular, normal kids would never be caught wearing those gay uniforms. Only the losers and gay kids joined. So funny.
Now that they are admitting gays maybe their fashion sense will improve....
Bet you thought you were one of the "cool" kids, right? Band kids were geeks too? This is not about kids being geeks, this is a moral issue and a religious issue. Christians striving to live by God's Word in a world that is pure sin-know anything at all about this?
Losers like Neil Armstrong, Henry Aaron, Sam Walton, and Steven Spielberg?
God bless these people for leaving the scouts behind. They are taking a stand for God and His beliefs...His Word.
SHAME on the Boy Scouts of America!!!
Shame on you for being such a stiff Richard!
How many times did God mentions discrimination? Ok maybe once, but that was to say don't do it- whatever you do to another, make sure it is something you want done to yourself. That's pretty much the *only* rule given in the New Testament and it was given in order to sum up every other rule ever handed down from above. But that is just my version of the Bible. Yours may indeed say discriminate.
3n1: Shame on you for condoning teaching children to be bigoted and hateful.
There are also several denominations that cut ties over a decade ago because they DIDN'T allow gay scouts – I suspect those are now considering starting to endorse the Scouts again.
Cudos to the southern Baptists! Many Christian groups used to have their own boy scout like programs anyways – like the Royal Rangers. Time to bring those groups back instead of bowing to American media pressure and the whim of the minority. Oh and for the "Born g-ay", god made me this way group – I know many former ga-y people who left the lifestyle. How could that be possible???
did they "pray the gay away"?
You would have to ask them.
your own doctrine says "god" created us all. So then yes, according to your own beliefs, your "god" did create gay people. Or did your god NOT create us all?? Either "god" did, or did not, no middle ground here. So, which is it, did your "god" create us all, or not?
Liberty, when do you choose to be straight and how often do you have gay urges? IF you don't have gay urges, why is it that only gay people do?
I wouldn't say that, sin is sin, they are no different than anybody else. But the difference is that some try to make up science and even ban together to create "gay" churches to justify what they are doing.
@Mirosal – no, actually my God created people with a free will to do whatever they choose. I have seen several reasons why people chose the gay lifestyle. Many times it has to do with rejection or abu-ze....
If being gay is a choice, can you tell me when you decided NOT to be gay? I assume you could go either way, but made your choice.
Liberty, answer Colin's question .... when did you choose to be straight? Now a question from me... is your god omniscient? Yes or no. Is "it"? Simple question, simple answer
and the one asking the question is as simple as they come what a qu eer bait ass hole. Mensa my ass
Free will???? LOL!! Not in your religion. "Do it my way, or go to hell" What's free about that? "Free" means without cost. So much for that idea.
my my my, apparently someone's mad because he can't understand the basics. Go watch your Saturday morning cartoons. Have mommy explain the bigger words they say.
Actually God didn't create anything, since he is imaginary
"I know many former ga-y people who left the lifestyle. How could that be possible???"
A lifestyle?
Probably the same as straight people who left their "lifestyle"
"I know many former ga-y people who left the lifestyle. How could that be possible???"
Probably due to the fact that they were forced in to therapy to 'cure' them and decided that it was best to shut up then risk being bullied by the bigots and hateful christards they have in their lives.
Colin,
The same reason some people do drugs and others cut themselves and yet others drive WAY too fast...They for whatever reason simply use their free will and do it. None of the above acts are healthy or normal, yet they are done...the people were NOT born that way, they just are.
Oh, please. Scientific research shows you to be absolutely wrong, Cur. There is NO evidence at all that people choose to be gay OR straight; if there were, you'd be able to pinpoint exactly the moment you chose to be straight, doofus.
Comparing driving too fast and cutting to s3xual orientation shows how stupid you are.
Good riddance – let them go – all this judgmental Bible thumpers have only one agenda – discrimination and hate towards others who are "not like them".......they like to call themselves "Christians" – but in reality – they are so far from being "Christ-like".....let them take their toys and go elsewhere to play..........
No. The agenda is to save America from God's rightful wrath. Christianity has a goal of saving as many souls as possible before Judgement Day. Believe or don't...They believe.
To use the your Lord's name in vain isn't all just the supposed cursing, it also can be about creating wealth using his name and hiding behind his name to make ridiculous policy, statements and opinions. That pretty much sums up the Southern Baptist Church. It is said Jesus loves his little children, ALL the children in the world. Hypocrisy has no bounds with religion.
I don't have a "lord", so using the name of a god would be of little concern to me. If I said "god damn it", you really DON'T know which "god" I am referring to, do you? You'll just as'sume it's YOUR "god", because while you dismiss ALL the other ancient gods as myths, for some strange reason, you think your ancient deity is real.
Mirosal, I agree whole heartedly with you! And I love your arguments with the other posts! Give them hell, well if in fact there is one!!