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May 31st, 2013
04:19 PM ET

Baptists plan exodus from Boy Scouts

By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN) - For Southern Baptist pastor Tim Reed, it was Scripture versus the Scouts.

“God’s word explicitly says homosexuality is a choice, a sin,” said Reed, pastor of First Baptist Church of Gravel Ridge in Jacksonville, Arkansas.

So when the Boy Scouts of America voted to lift its ban on openly gay youths on May 24, Reed said the church had no choice but to cut its charter with Troop 542.

“It’s not a hate thing here,” Reed told CNN affiliate Fox 16. “It’s a moral stance we must take as a Southern Baptist church.”

Southern Baptist leaders say Reed is not alone.

Baptist churches sponsor nearly 4,000 Scout units representing more than 100,000 youths, according to the Boy Scouts of America.

That number could drop precipitously.

The Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s largest Protestant denomination, will soon urge its 45,000 congregations and 16 million members to cut ties with the Scouts, according to church leaders.

The denomination will vote on nonbinding but influential resolutions during a convention June 11-12 in Houston.

“There’s a 100% chance that there will be a resolution about disaffiliation at the convention,” said Richard Land, the outgoing head of the Southern Baptists’ Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, “and a 100% chance that 99% of people will vote for it.”

“Southern Baptists are going to be leaving the Boy Scouts en masse,” Land continued.

Roger “Sing” Oldham, a spokesman for the Southern Baptist Convention, emphasized that local congregations make their own decision on the Scouts.

But he, too, said he expects Baptist delegates, which the church calls “messengers,” to voice their disagreement with the BSA's decision to allow gay youths.

“With this policy change, the Boy Scouts’ values are contradictory to the basic values of our local churches,” Oldham said.

Several religious groups with strong Scouting ties support the new policy.

“We have heard from both those who support the amended policy and those who would have preferred it would not have changed,” said BSA spokesman Deron Smith.

Faith-based organizations charter more than 70% of Scout chapters, providing meeting space and leadership, according to the BSA.

“There have been some organizations that have decided not to renew their charters with Scouting," said Smith, "but we can’t quantify the impact of the amended policy."

The National Jewish Committee on Scouting, the United Church of Christ, the Episcopal Church, the Unitarian Universalist Association and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which sponsors more Scout units than any other faith, all endorsed the change.

The National Catholic Committee on Scouting, which is run with oversight from a bishop, said Thursday that allowing gay youths in the Scouts does not conflict with church teaching. Each bishop will decide whether or not to allow churches in his diocese to charter Scout units, the committee added.

“We ask that Catholic Scouters and chartered organization heads not rush to judgment,” said Edward Martin, chairman of the National Catholic Committee on Scouting.

But the Rev. Derek Lappe, pastor of the Our Lady Star of the Sea Catholic Church in Bremerton, Washington, has already made up his mind.

“I do not feel that it is possible for us to live out, and to teach, the authentic truth about human sexuality within the confines of the Boy Scout’s new policy,” said Lappe.

The priest told CNN affiliate FOX16 that his parish will part ways with the Scouts and develop its own programs.

There may soon be an alternative to the Scouts for social conservatives like Lappe.

John Stemberger, founder of On My Honor, a group that opposed the Scouts’ change in policy, plans to convene conservatives in Louisville, Kentucky, in June to consider forming a new Scout-like group, which could be up and running by the end of 2013.

“Churches and Scoutmasters are looking for leadership and direction,” said Stemberg, an attorney in Orlando, Florida.

A number of conservative religious denominations already sponsor their own groups.

For instance, the Southern Baptists have the Royal Ambassadors, an explicitly Christian program founded in 1908 for boys in first through sixth grade. (A similar group called Challengers equips older boys in “mission education.”)

The name comes from the New Testament, in which the Apostle Paul tells Christians to be “ambassadors for Christ.”

The estimated 31,000 Royal Ambassadors pledge “ to become a well-informed, responsible follower of Christ; to have a Christlike concern for all people; to learn how to carry the message of Christ around the world; to work with others in sharing Christ; and to keep myself clean and healthy in mind and body."

While not as outdoorsy as the Boy Scouts, Ambassadors do camp and play sports, said Land, who was a member of the group during the 1950s. But instead of merit badges for archery and bird study, young Ambassadors earn patches for memorizing Bible verses and mission work.

Southern Baptists said they are preparing for a surge of interest in the Royal Ambassadors at their upcoming convention in Houston.

“We really have an opportunity here to strengthen our RA programs,” the Rev. Ernest Easley, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee, said in a sermon last Sunday, “and to get the boys in a program where they’re going to be protected, where there’s a high moral standard and where they will have an opportunity to learn about camping, missions, evangelism in the local church.”

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Baptist • Belief • Christianity • Church • Gay rights • gender issues • Politics • United States

soundoff (10,821 Responses)
  1. Bob

    I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father, but by Me. ...Jesus John 14:6

    June 1, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • devin

      Nothing more profound. Nothing simpler.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Who is Jesus John? ( john is yet another word for toilet.)

      June 1, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • mark

      What do you call a man with no arms and legs floating in the water?
      BOB!

      June 1, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • tallulah13

      What do you call a man with no arms and legs hanging on a wall?
      ART!

      June 1, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • The real Tom

      What do you call a man with no arms or legs lying flat on the floor?

      MATT!

      June 1, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
    • Bob

      Other Bob, since you are being a cafeteria Christian and dumping select bible bile on us from your Christian book of nasty, let's take a look at what's really in there. From both evil testaments:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 1, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
  2. Bob

    Unless one is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God. ...Jesus John 3:3

    June 1, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • tallulah13

      So you believe in reincarnation?

      June 1, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Bob

      Tallulah, we must be born from above to enter His Kingdom. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • tallulah13

      But Bob, when you die you stop living. Don't you think it's kind of dodgy when someone offers you a prize that you have to die to get?

      June 1, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
    • Bob

      Tallulah, did you really say: when you die you stop living? lol

      June 1, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
    • danielwalldammit

      Magical incantations; it you type enough of them Bob, then perhaps something will happen. ...not that you'll understand it.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Poor Boob. He's still reeling from the number of states that have now legalized gay marriage. It's tough being so mired in stupidity. I feel really sorry for him.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Uh, yeah Bob. You know, the cessation of life? That's what happens when a body is no longer capable of functioning.

      Ohhh! I bet you think that there's a heaven and all that! Sorry, Bob. I hate to be the one to break it to you, but there's no proof of any heaven, hell, god or satan. There's no proof of any "soul" or afterlife. There's just wishful thinking and empty promises. Your god is just one of the thousands that have been invented by humans to explain and exploit the unknown.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • JIm

      so how do you define "above" now that we understand astronomy and that those little dots are not holes the blanket of the sky? (and that the Earth turns, revolves around a sun, which revolves around a galaxy center, which is moving in a cluster of galaxies...) So what, exactly, is "up" and why would heaven be there, in particular? (oh, I've got it... pick me! Because when we made up that story we didn't know the Earht was a sphere, that the sky was an atmosphere, and all that astonomy stuff... we were ignorant!)

      June 1, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • Bob

      daniel, no worries. I will keep putting out His Word, And yes, something indeed will happen. His Word does not return to Him void. God uses His Word in many ways. Heres just a few: To plant, to water, to encourage, to condemn, to save, to feed, to inspire.....etc.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • Bob

      Jim, His Kingdom is in the 3rd heaven. Did you know there were three? I am guessing you didn't.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • Bob

      Other Bob, since you are being a typical cafeteria Christian and dumping select bible bile on us from your Christian book of nasty, let's take a look at what's really in there. From both evil testaments:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 1, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
  3. Bob

    Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool. Where is a house you could build for Me? (declares the Lord) .....Isaiah 66:1

    June 1, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Throne is also another word for toilet.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Science

      Try some bob

      Ca-nabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) – National Cancer Insti-tute

      http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/.../page4

      Mar 21, 2013 – [1,2] These plant-derived compounds may be referred to as phytocannabinoids. ... have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. ... In lung cancer cell lines, CBD upregulated ICAM-1, leading to ...

      Good stuff !

      June 1, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • Bob

      Other Bob, since you are being a common cafeteria Christian and dumping select bible bile on us from your Christian book of nasty, let's take a look at what's really in there. From both evil testaments:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 1, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
  4. poseidon

    Not that I really care, because I don't, but when the Christians leave there will be nothing left of this silly group. The few remaining gay, questioning, and sons of atheists will not be able to sustain the organization and it will fade away. What a happy day for the left, huh?

    June 1, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • JIm

      Why is the "right" (politically conservative) infatuated with religion? Religion espouses almost soleley leftist ideas: charity, not judging, taking care of everyone, giving shirts off backs, turning other cheeks, etc. Oh, wait, the right only like the power structure created by origanized religion. Sorry, my bad.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
  5. John N Florida

    May their Bigotry support their church in fitting amounts.

    June 1, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
  6. Bob

    My help ocmes form the Lord, who made heaven and earth. ...Psalm 121:2

    June 1, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
    • Bob

      spelling: My help comes from the Lord who made heaven and earth. ...Psalm 121:2

      June 1, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
    • tony

      For Big Oil and soon, Space-X apparently.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
  7. franchise422617

    Typical hypocrite Baptists/Catholics. I thought they taught you in CCD not to hate. Yet if you're gay it's ok to hate!!!

    June 1, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
  8. meridianalliance

    The southern baptist conention continues to show its intolerance to those who do not agree with their doctrine. They cannot stick to basic statements of belief but have to revert to negative attacks on other groups or individuals...This includes vicious comments about Jews, Mormons, and Catholics...So much with "What would Jesus Do."

    June 1, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
  9. Bob

    The Lord is righteous in all His ways and Holy in all His works. ...Psalm 145:17

    June 1, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
    • tony

      Let's hope it's you and yours, and not some poor folk nicer and smarter, who are the next Tornado/Eathquake/Tsunami/other-act-of-god victims.

      I can just imagine you gleefully thanking god as you and your family go your death.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
  10. Bob

    He upholds all things by the Word of His power. ....Hebrews 1:3

    June 1, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
  11. Bob

    In Him we live and move and have our existence. ...Acts 17:28

    June 1, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
    • Science

      BS plain and simple !

      June 1, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
    • Will

      "be excellent to each other".......Theodore Logan 1989

      June 1, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
  12. allenwoll

    .
    Things are looking up for the Scouts ! !
    .

    June 1, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
  13. poseidon

    Would the last four gay Scouts left please turn out the lights? Thanks

    June 1, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
  14. mlg4035

    Hey: If the Pope can say that atheists can get into Heaven. Then surely gays can get into the BSA!

    June 1, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
    • pep

      Nope. They can do what the other groups do: form their own organization. It can be called the Gay Scouts of America.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • Science

      Comedy gold link !

      https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/23/heaven-for-atheists-pope-sparks-debate/

      June 1, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • Alias

      Maybe the gays should form their own troop.
      Not only would they be Fabulous at earning badges, I bet the Gilrscouts would sell them their cookies at a discount.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • JustTheFacts

      mig4035... The Pope was wrong. Atheists are not going to heaven...

      June 1, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • LinCA

      @JustTheFacts

      You said, "The Pope was wrong. Atheists are not going to heaven..."
      Agreed, but not for the reasons that you think. Atheists don't go to heaven for the same reason catholics don't go. Or baptists, or methodists, or lutherans. Nobody gets to go to heaven for the simple reason that there is no such place.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • JustTheFacts

      LinCA… You stated, "Nobody gets to go to heaven for the simple reason that there is no such place." Only a fool would make a flat statement about something you cannot prove. Without proof, you have no argument. Without proof, what you say don't mean a thing...

      June 1, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • LinCA

      @JustTheFacts

      You said, "Only a fool would make a flat statement about something you cannot prove. Without proof, you have no argument. Without proof, what you say don't mean a thing..."
      So, you agree then that all these bullshit statements about there being gods don't mean a thing? I never thought I'd agree with you, but thanks for coming around.

      I'll have to quote your comment any time someone makes a ridiculous claim about there being gods, heaven, hell, etc. All those idiotic claims are clearly bullshit without evidence to back them up.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
    • JustTheFacts

      LinCA… That's all you can do is evade the issue. The issue being you haven't a shred of proof to back up your claim that heaven doesn't exist. You're nothing but talk. And your evasive reply only confirms that I am right…

      June 1, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
    • LinCA

      @JustTheFacts

      You said, "LinCA… That's all you can do is evade the issue."
      I'm not evading anything. I'll gladly admit that there is no evidence for, or against, the existence of heaven, or gods, or hell, or the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy. But just because there is no evidence either way doesn't mean both positions are equally valid.

      I'm not claiming there are creatures or places for which there is absolutely no reason to believe they exist. That is done exclusively here by the believers.

      You said, "The issue being you haven't a shred of proof to back up your claim that heaven doesn't exist."
      You haven't a shred of proof to back up your claim that heaven exist. Or your god.

      You said, "You're nothing but talk."
      And you're nothing but bullshit. you should consider changing your handle to something like NothingEvenRemotelyResemblingTheFacts.

      You said, "And your evasive reply only confirms that I am right…"
      I wasn't being evasive. I was agreeing with you that without evidence is it completely moronic to believe something exists.

      The point is that without evidence, your silly little imaginary friend you call Yahweh is no more likely to exist than any other mythical or imaginary creature. You have to have an infantile belief in it to be able to cling to your religion. Your entire concept of heaven and hell is predicated on your silly belief in your imaginary friend. They are equally imaginary.

      June 1, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • Real Wisdom

      LinCA… Just like the devil. All you can do is to clump a lot of misinformation together, mixed with a little truth, to make it seem like everything you said is true. When the reality is, only a small portion of it is true. And everything else is false. Obviously, I'm wasting my time with you. I've got better things to do. This is my last post to you…

      June 1, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Real Wisdom

      You said, "Just like the devil."
      Unless you have evidence this devil creature exists, it's just as imaginary as your god.

      You said, "All you can do is to clump a lot of misinformation together, mixed with a little truth, to make it seem like everything you said is true. When the reality is, only a small portion of it is true. And everything else is false."
      Care to point out what is untrue?

      You said, "Obviously, I'm wasting my time with you."
      Actually, by the sound of it, you are pretty good at wasting time. I would guess that you spend quite a bit of it talking to your imaginary friend.

      You said, "I've got better things to do."
      Like read a science book? Go for it.

      You said, "This is my last post to you…"
      Whatever. I can't guarantee the same.

      June 1, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Real Wisdom aka JustTheFacts

      When I suggested to change your handle, I didn't mean make up another bullshit one. You have just as little wisdom as facts.

      June 1, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
  15. tony

    Agatha Christie always said follow the [collection plate] money

    June 1, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
  16. oldskool

    Another positive development for the scouts!

    June 1, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • Will

      I wish the Southern Baptists would boycott earth! We could ship them, along with all the other religious nutballs and send them to colonize Mars.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • Alias

      Just curious Will,
      what do you have against Mars?

      June 1, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
  17. Terrier4581

    These people think they are doing what is right morally, as is there is no choice in the matter, but they are cutting their nose off to spite their face. The Scouts have a positive impact on children, and the churches are taking that away to some degree only because they allow gay kids to continue to participate once they realize who they are (after they already grew up a part of the organization). It's not that the Baptists don't have a right not to associate with a moral teaching they see as repugnant, but the Scouts aren't endorsing being gay, they aren't teaching it, etc. They are only showing compassion by not kicking kids out! I think a religious group should recognize when a compassionate act is being committed and support it. Do Baptists kick gay members out of their church? I would hope not, since I believe the mantra they espouse is "hate the sin, love the sinner." Their actions are thus hypocritical if you ask me.

    June 1, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Religion in general is a giant ball of hypocrisy, so I'm not really seeing anything unexpected here.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
  18. TMSimon

    Being gay is not a choice. Discrimination and bigotry IS a choice.
    Good luck explaining your hate when you meet your god.

    June 1, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • devin

      But God absolutely hates the sin of h o m o s e x u a l i t y. Why would I ever feel the need to explain anything to Him? On a side note, I say this as one who is just as guilty in his own sin.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:02 pm |
    • The real Tom

      How do you know there IS any god or what he "hates"?

      June 1, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
    • LinCA

      @devin

      You said, "But God absolutely hates the sin of h o m o s e x u a l i t y."
      Only according to your interpretation of the writings of primitive desert dwellers.

      You said, "Why would I ever feel the need to explain anything to Him?"
      Why would you ever expect to meet such a creature? There isn't a shred of evidence to support the notion of its existence. There is no rational reason to believe it exists. Do you plan to explain yourself to the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny, too?

      June 1, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I generally don't agree with devin on anything, but the bible has a big list of "don'ts" and homosexuality is on that list. If the god of the christians is real, then I doubt anyone will get into heaven.

      But I'm not concerned, because there's no rational reason to believe in a god for which there isn't a single shred of evidence.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • Alias

      I must remind you all – again.
      In the year 2013 this country is going to make smoking pot and gay marriage both legal.
      Liviticus 2013 says that if a man should lay with another man, he should be stoned.
      It has been there all along, we just weren't reading it rigtht.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
    • devin

      LinCa. I appreciate the input, but I really don't want to travel down the " sky fairy, spaghetti monster, bronze age goat herders, primitive desert dwellers, I don't believe in a God" path. If that's your inclination, that's fine and I'll respect that. I prefer to embrace my Christian faith because, even with all it's unanswerable questions, and there are not a few, it simply makes the most sense to me.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • Science

      Ca-nabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) – National Cancer Insti-tute

      http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/.../page4

      Mar 21, 2013 – [1,2] These plant-derived compounds may be referred to as phytocannabinoids. ... have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. ... In lung cancer cell lines, CBD upregulated ICAM-1, leading to ...

      Good stuff !

      June 1, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • pep

      Oh, yeah. Ain't he the guy who caused all those tornadoes?

      June 1, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • devin

      Alias. You are one profane SOB, but that there was funny.

      June 1, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • devin

      tallluh. You do realize that first sentence really hurt my feelings?

      June 1, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • JustTheFacts

      TMSimon… Whoever told you "being gay is not a choice" lied to you. You need to check your facts. Secondly, God always has discriminated against the devil. And doing so is "holy"….

      June 1, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • LinCA

      @devin

      You said, "I appreciate the input, but I really don't want to travel down the " sky fairy, spaghetti monster, bronze age goat herders, primitive desert dwellers, I don't believe in a God" path."
      Why not? Are you afraid of what you'll find, or maybe what you won't find, if you do?

      You said, "If that's your inclination, that's fine and I'll respect that."
      A belief in a creature for which there is no reason to believe it exists, is a t the root of most religions. It is the (very shaky) foundation on which christianity is built.

      You said, "I prefer to embrace my Christian faith because, even with all it's unanswerable questions, and there are not a few, it simply makes the most sense to me."
      I understand that religious beliefs, christianity included, seem to offer nicely packaged "answers". But what good are the answers if they are based on nothing but hot air? What good are answers is they are obviously not based on fact?

      June 1, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
    • devin

      LinCa. 1. No, actually fear has nothing to do with it. I've just been down that road and back, and back again , so often that I realize " never the twain shall meet" Ultimately, both our perspective require the same amount of faith, they are just directed at different objects.
      2.Any human being that can observe the created universe in all its complexities, both on the micro and macro level, and then conclude that the idea of a supernatural creator is not plausible, is operating in a very "shaky" frame of mind.
      3.If there is one thing my Christian faith is not, its "nicely packaged answers". Don't trivialize my faith when you know nothing about it. There is not a day that goes by that I do not wrestle with questions and issues of my faith that I have no answers for and at times go against my sense of rationality. At the end of the day, I embrace my faith because in its totality, it simply makes the most sense.

      June 1, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • LinCA

      @devin

      You said, "both our perspective require the same amount of faith, they are just directed at different objects."
      Complete bullshit. Positions of belief and non-belief aren't equal by any stretch of the imagination.

      Do you really believe the Tooth Fairy is real? Do you really believe the Easter Bunny is real? Without any evidence to back up an assertion something exists, it is unreasonable to believe it does. Not believing gods exists is the only reasonable position in light of complete and utter lack of any evidence that they do.

      And while non-belief of existence (merely rejecting the claim of belief of existence) is the only reasonable position, the next most logical is the more radical one of belief of non-existence.

      You said, "Any human being that can observe the created universe in all its complexities, both on the micro and macro level, and then conclude that the idea of a supernatural creator is not plausible, is operating in a very "shaky" frame of mind."
      I don't claim that it isn't possible, but without evidence suggesting there is such a creature is unreasonable. Inserting a supernatural creature does nothing to answer the question anyway. It simply changes to where this supernatural creature came from.

      You said, "If there is one thing my Christian faith is not, its "nicely packaged answers"."
      Gods, all gods, were invented by man to answer the questions for which they had no answers. Nicely packaged answers is all that gods provide. It is the tribal leaders that control the answers. It is the answers that provide them with power over their flock. To be able to get the sheeple to stay in the flock, the rest of the religious bullshit was invented.

      You said, "Don't trivialize my faith when you know nothing about it."
      At its core, your faith is no different from that of a five year old's belief in the Tooth Fairy. The only reason you still believe you have an imaginary friend, and no linger believe the Tooth Fairy is real (I sure hope you've progressed at least that far), is that your parents allowed you to stop believing in one and not the other.

      You said, "There is not a day that goes by that I do not wrestle with questions and issues of my faith that I have no answers for and at times go against my sense of rationality."
      Maybe you should consider going with the rational side, once in a while.

      You said, "At the end of the day, I embrace my faith because in its totality, it simply makes the most sense."
      Like I said, it has nicely packaged answers. The fact that the answers are bullshit, is why you sometimes struggle with your rational side.

      June 1, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
  19. wvguy

    just another example of the good ole Christian love LOL

    June 1, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
  20. orlandorn

    Southern Baptists: We'll give up our bigotry when you pry it from our cold, dead hands.

    June 1, 2013 at 12:54 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.