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May 31st, 2013
04:19 PM ET
Baptists plan exodus from Boy ScoutsBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - For Southern Baptist pastor Tim Reed, it was Scripture versus the Scouts. “God’s word explicitly says homosexuality is a choice, a sin,” said Reed, pastor of First Baptist Church of Gravel Ridge in Jacksonville, Arkansas. So when the Boy Scouts of America voted to lift its ban on openly gay youths on May 24, Reed said the church had no choice but to cut its charter with Troop 542. “It’s not a hate thing here,” Reed told CNN affiliate Fox 16. “It’s a moral stance we must take as a Southern Baptist church.” Southern Baptist leaders say Reed is not alone. Baptist churches sponsor nearly 4,000 Scout units representing more than 100,000 youths, according to the Boy Scouts of America. That number could drop precipitously. The Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s largest Protestant denomination, will soon urge its 45,000 congregations and 16 million members to cut ties with the Scouts, according to church leaders. The denomination will vote on nonbinding but influential resolutions during a convention June 11-12 in Houston. “There’s a 100% chance that there will be a resolution about disaffiliation at the convention,” said Richard Land, the outgoing head of the Southern Baptists’ Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, “and a 100% chance that 99% of people will vote for it.” “Southern Baptists are going to be leaving the Boy Scouts en masse,” Land continued. Roger “Sing” Oldham, a spokesman for the Southern Baptist Convention, emphasized that local congregations make their own decision on the Scouts. But he, too, said he expects Baptist delegates, which the church calls “messengers,” to voice their disagreement with the BSA's decision to allow gay youths. “With this policy change, the Boy Scouts’ values are contradictory to the basic values of our local churches,” Oldham said. Several religious groups with strong Scouting ties support the new policy. “We have heard from both those who support the amended policy and those who would have preferred it would not have changed,” said BSA spokesman Deron Smith. Faith-based organizations charter more than 70% of Scout chapters, providing meeting space and leadership, according to the BSA. “There have been some organizations that have decided not to renew their charters with Scouting," said Smith, "but we can’t quantify the impact of the amended policy." The National Jewish Committee on Scouting, the United Church of Christ, the Episcopal Church, the Unitarian Universalist Association and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which sponsors more Scout units than any other faith, all endorsed the change. The National Catholic Committee on Scouting, which is run with oversight from a bishop, said Thursday that allowing gay youths in the Scouts does not conflict with church teaching. Each bishop will decide whether or not to allow churches in his diocese to charter Scout units, the committee added. “We ask that Catholic Scouters and chartered organization heads not rush to judgment,” said Edward Martin, chairman of the National Catholic Committee on Scouting. But the Rev. Derek Lappe, pastor of the Our Lady Star of the Sea Catholic Church in Bremerton, Washington, has already made up his mind. “I do not feel that it is possible for us to live out, and to teach, the authentic truth about human sexuality within the confines of the Boy Scout’s new policy,” said Lappe. The priest told CNN affiliate FOX16 that his parish will part ways with the Scouts and develop its own programs. There may soon be an alternative to the Scouts for social conservatives like Lappe. John Stemberger, founder of On My Honor, a group that opposed the Scouts’ change in policy, plans to convene conservatives in Louisville, Kentucky, in June to consider forming a new Scout-like group, which could be up and running by the end of 2013. “Churches and Scoutmasters are looking for leadership and direction,” said Stemberg, an attorney in Orlando, Florida. A number of conservative religious denominations already sponsor their own groups. For instance, the Southern Baptists have the Royal Ambassadors, an explicitly Christian program founded in 1908 for boys in first through sixth grade. (A similar group called Challengers equips older boys in “mission education.”) The name comes from the New Testament, in which the Apostle Paul tells Christians to be “ambassadors for Christ.” The estimated 31,000 Royal Ambassadors pledge “ to become a well-informed, responsible follower of Christ; to have a Christlike concern for all people; to learn how to carry the message of Christ around the world; to work with others in sharing Christ; and to keep myself clean and healthy in mind and body." While not as outdoorsy as the Boy Scouts, Ambassadors do camp and play sports, said Land, who was a member of the group during the 1950s. But instead of merit badges for archery and bird study, young Ambassadors earn patches for memorizing Bible verses and mission work. Southern Baptists said they are preparing for a surge of interest in the Royal Ambassadors at their upcoming convention in Houston. “We really have an opportunity here to strengthen our RA programs,” the Rev. Ernest Easley, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee, said in a sermon last Sunday, “and to get the boys in a program where they’re going to be protected, where there’s a high moral standard and where they will have an opportunity to learn about camping, missions, evangelism in the local church.” soundoff (10,821 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 Next » |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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religions serve to divide us and foment most violent confrontations between groups of humans
No, it's not 'religion'–it's SIN and the wickedness of our hearts, continually doing evil that causes all these problems. Yes, sin.
It's indecent and irresponsible for an educated person in the 21st century to believe in God.
Agreed. Well said.
How many centuries do you claim man has been around the planet? I fail to see what yer braggin' about.
You fail at many things, lol??. Usually at making any sense.
Correct, Nail on the head.
It is a very sad day when a church does not feel the need to help certain people but will help others with open hands. These churches are truly not what god would want of them. They are there to help all. Not be selective.
Jaimie: Christianity is about letting others they are sinners who offended a holy and righteous God, who had to punish sin and did it Himself, on the cross....It's not about do-goodism...no matter what you heard. That's a myth. Jesus came to save His people not start support groups
Religion is the belief that your god given conscience need to be overridden by a con man speaking on your god's behalf – as if your god couldn't communicate with your god given brain directly.
Only a problem for humans. Cylons have celestial wifi.
One anachronism expelling another. Given the steadily declining membership, in a couple more decades the only place anyone will see a Boy Scout uniform is in a museum.
Where they will be displayed along wax statues of Southern Baptists.
If the Conservatives want to start alternate organizations for boys; more power to them. Just remember to order the brown shirts.
Hypocrite.
After many years of hard work and effort, you liberals have finally succeeded in literally FORCING OTHERS (the scouts) TO BEHAVE AS YOU DEMAND. You liberals don't even do scouting. You don't even take part in it. You hate the scouts and their american values. Yet, you succeeded in making them stop behaving in a legal and moral way, which you didn't approve of.
Then, when some folks want to (still) just be left alone to honor what they want to honor, you can't have it. You must attack them further! Actually warning that THEY are the "brown shirts"
Can you see how a person like me is in despair about your blindness? Can you imagine how frustrating is that you don't even see that you, THE ACTUAL BLATANT BROWN-SHIRT, are so self-deceived that you think it's the other side?
" You liberals don't even do scouting. You don't even take part in it. "
Delusional idiocy.
Libsrtyrants: You're completely wrong. The BSA changed their policy mainly because corporate sponsors no longer wished to be associated with a group they felt was prejudice. Sorry, con, but these corporate sponsors are NOT liberal organization. (but they are people too, right!). These corporate sponsors were concerned about the impact to their bottom line by being associated with the BSA if the BSA didn't change.
Fact the facts your POV is now the minority (otherwise the corporations wouldn't of been concerned).
You and your kind are free to form your own groups. Thus what harm was their to you? NONE! All that occured here was the free market place doing what it does. As a Con, you support a free market place, right?
Oh really, Midwest Rail?
With it's blatant Christian prayers and Christian values, you're big scout fans now, huh? Sure. I've been to many Scout meetings. Never seen anything but conservative Christian values on display. Never seen anything like you there.
If you recognized honor, you'd have given examples of liberals in scouting. Instead, without even an example to support you, what did you do? You ignored my reason and logic, for obvious reasons.
You didn't respond. You just attacked me personally. Just like the bully/brown shirt you liberals are. You went with your prejudiced imagination (which says my statement is delusional idiocy.) Online, this is the equivalent of ignoring what I said and just punching me in the face. Liberalism is tyranny.
Jazzguitar,
I say you are only spewing your prejudiced imagination here. Wait. Before you go all defensive, consider whether I might be right..
You immediately go to the old liberal whippin' boy, anything with the letters "corpor". WITHOUT SPECIFIC EXAMPLES.
You I posted this at 9:04. You have 3 minutes to give me specific examples of said corporations who threatened to pull away from the scouts, or admit that you must went with your prejudiced imagination, and literally nothing else.
I do support market freedom in all things and ways. I just recognize our steady decline and the reasons for it.
Times tickin', Jazz Guitar.
How 'bout them examples of corporations who threatened the scouts, as you charged.
Or, an admission that you just made it up, please.
Shouldn't take but a second. I mean, you didn't make the charge without having evidence, did you?
Actually, both of my sons participated in scouting. That's the problem with absolute statements like the one you made. They are invariably wrong, and portray you as a delusional idiot. Sorry if the truth hurts.
I stepped away for a while... because I have a life.
To clarify: yes, I am a liberal. I was also a Boy Scout, starting as a Cub Scout, and I remained a Scout until high school.
I chose my words carefully. The Brown Shirts were a result of organized intolerance. The opinion that Gays are not worthy to belong to an organization because of who they are is predjudice, in its vilest form.
Am I a hypocrite? If the reason you think that is because you don't believe a moral organization should enforce its values in a fair and unbiased way, then I can see why you see me that way.
I didn't immediately accept gays. But as I met them and got to know them as people, I became educated and learned; I became a better person. And using the term 'to accept them' is demeaning; as if I'm better then them and can cast jjudgement over them.
I'm tired of all of this anger and hatred thrown around in the name of righteousness. We have more important issues confronting us than arguing over which side is more ignorant.
Final thought: we all need to wake up and figure out what's truly important.
I have convinced myself that gay $ex is a choice and not genetic, but then have no explanation as to why only gay people have ho.mo$exual urges. I am
(a) A first-year student psychologist still learning my trade
(b) A failed geneticist
(c) A fraudulent, discredited sociologist; or
(d) A Southern Baptist?
No wonder you are confused Colin. You are not I am.
"Exd 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
So god is Popeye?
Liberals always make me embarrased for liberals. You only win arguments with conservatives when you speak for them. All you've done here is argue against your own bigotted prejudices.
So who did Jody Foster rip off like that school teacher astronut did to another on "THE TEAM"??
Religion is such a cancer, and those who fall for it are malignant.
John, while I'm agnostic I don't believe religion is a cancer. It is just immaturity on the part of the individual. Arrested development so to speak. This is real easy to prove. Ask someone that is religious if they believed in myths, like Santa, as a child. Most do (hey I did also). Ask them if as an adult is they still believe in said myth. Most will say they do NOT. Then ask them why they still believe in some myths. The only logical answer is they haven't mature to the same level it took for them to figure out Santa was a myth!
Message to all Bapists and other fundamentalists: Wake up! We're all GOD in disguise. Get over it...
Alan Watts: What to tell children about God and The Universe
There was never a time when the world began, because it goes round and round like a circle, and there is no place on a circle where it begins. Look at my watch, which tells the time; it goes round, and so the world repeats itself again and again. But just as the hour-hand of the watch goes up to twelve and down to six, so, too, there is day and night, waking and sleeping, living and dying, summer and winter. You can’t have any one of these without the other, because you wouldn’t be able to know what black is unless you had seen it side by side with white, or white unless side by side with black.
In the same way, there are times when the world is, and times when it isn’t, for if the world went on and on without rest forever and ever, it would get horribly tired of itself. It comes and it goes. Now you see it; now you don’t. So because it doesn’t get tired of itself, it always comes back again after it disappears. It’s like your breath: it goes in and out, in and out, and if you try to hold it in all the time you feel terrible. It’s also like the game of hide-and-seek, because it’s always fun to find new ways of hiding, and to seek for someone who doesn’t always hide in the same place.
God also likes to play hide-and-seek, but because there is nothing outside God, He has no one but himself to play with. But He gets over this difficulty by pretending that He is not Himself. This is His way of hiding from Himself. He pretends that He is you and I and all the people in the world, all the animals, all the plants, all the rocks, and all the stars. In this way He has strange and wonderful adventures, some of which are terrible and frightening. But these are just like bad dreams, for when He wakes up they will disappear.
Now when God plays hide and pretends that He is you and I, He does it so well that it takes Him a long time to remember where and how He hid Himself. But that’s the whole fun of it-just what He wanted to do. He doesn’t want to find Himself out too quickly, for that would spoil the game. That is why it is so difficult for you and me to find out that we are God in disguise, pretending not to be Himself. But when the game has gone on long enough, all of us will wake up, stop pretending, and remember that we are all one single Self-the God who is all that there is and who lives for ever and ever.
Of course, you must remember that God isn’t shaped like a person. People have skins and there is always something outside our skins. If there weren’t, we wouldn’t know the difference between what is inside and outside our bodies. But God has no skin and no shape because there isn’t any outside to Him. . . . The inside and the outside of God are the same. And though I have been talking about God as ‘He’ and not ’she,’ God isn’t a man or a woman. I didn’t say ‘it’ because we usually say ‘it’ for things that aren’t alive.
God is the Self of the world, but you can’t see God for the same reason that, without a mirror, you can’t see your own eyes, and you certainly can’t bite your own teeth or look inside your head. Your self is that cleverly hidden because it is God hiding.
You may ask why God sometimes hides in the form of horrible people, or pretends to be people who suffer great disease and pain. Remember, first, that He isn’t really doing this to anyone but Himself. Remember, too, that in almost all the stories you enjoy there have to be bad people as well as good people, for the thrill of the tale is to find out how the good people will get the better of the bad. It’s the same as when we play cards. At the beginning of the game we shuffle them all into a mess, which is like the bad things in the world, but the point of the game is to put the mess into good order, and the one who does it best is the winner. Then we shuffle the cards once more and play again, and so it goes with the world.
~Alan Watts
I mean "Baptists" Lol
John, nice to see someone quoting the very intelligent Alan Watts.
Just another comedian with normal people acting as the "straight man".
Jazz, just so you know. I am not the same John who posted "Religion is a cancer", although fundamentalism in my humble opinion can be very dangerous...
I strongly support the Church's decision on this issue to part ways with the BSA organization. It was the right thing to do, given BSA recent decisions to support openly gay scouts.
Wow, I can now sleep knowing your worthless opinion.
and now feel free to join the group of haters to your right....
Erine. I ageee with you. To me it is a win \ win for everyone. I support the BSA policy change 100% but those that do NOT need to break ties.
The BSA will be a better organization the less ties they have to religious groups.
His opinion is every bit as valuable and valid as yours. How dare any of you reprobates call anyone a "hater" with the stance you've taken against the Christian faith and the hateful things you said in your posts?
I agree that it is illogical to ban gay boyscout leaders but not members. The rest of your statement reeks of ignorance and fear.
Brooke, I believe that this was a political decision so they could move forward with this current change. The corporate sponsors that demanded the current change were willing to hold off for now. Give it a few years and the BSA will allow gay scout leaders.
Agree. Change like this takes time, because the hate is so fundamental, but it will come.
Message
Southern Baptists are Americas equivalent to the Taliban and are catching up to the Muslim Extreamists ..Bent on Giving Jesus a bad name....Shame on you! Charles Bowen Solomon Stone
The decision to let open gays in was a mistake and it's going to rip the boyscouts apart. The scouts should split at this point onmyhonor dot net is going to host the packs that will just carry on as they have been. This was a dishonest decision. I say that for at least two reasons: the boyscouts council went against what the majority of their members wanted, which was no change, and because the scouts didn't vote for this change for the reason gays think. I talked to a very high ranking scout offical who voted "yes" the other day. He told me he did it because he thinks that kids are better off in scouts. Then he clarified and said what I mean by that is kids don't really know if they are gay or not and it will do them good to be around people that realise that. He also said that on the other hand if gays want to send a kid to the scouts then they will be sending that kids to a group where the kids can be exposed to other ways of thinking than the gay way–since gays won't be allowed to be leaders. Sounds like a bunch of dishonest stuff all around and that's why a kids group shouldn't become front
line in the culture war. Gay activist should form a group that accepts gay scouts, in fact the Navigator scouts already did that. And Royal Rangers is the Assembly of God Scouts which is very religiously centered. The boyscouts was a good In between group, and DADT was a good policy for it. But now because gay activists would rather ruin the group than allow a group that isn't specifically catering to them to be free of relentless propaganda attacks, that group will be torn apart. And kids from different families, right and left won't leave all that aside and kick back by a camp fire. They will be in a scout group with people that share the same opinions as their parents. That's why DADT works because if we tell it all we fight and then segregate. Then our kids get to either go to a scout group where the norm is either "so liberal my brain fell out" or " let's pretend it the the sinners don't exist." And people wonder why congress can't get anything done.
Then rip it apart.
The majority was not in favor of desegration either.
You're very confused. The BSA leaders made the change because of pressure from corporate sponsors. Many of these leaders were corporate leaders (e.g. of major companies), and they did want to be associated with a policy that was no longer supported by the majority of Americans. The BSA depends on both religious groups as well as these corporate sponsors. They decided to side with the corporate sponsors. This is the free market place in action. A core conservative value.
I agree that the BSA will lose members but the remaining members will have more corporate dollars to spend per scout. Religious groups can form their own type of boys scout group and they are doing so already. So I see a win \ win here.
So your response to "love one another as I have loved you", is to tell children (these are kids remember, not adults that they are less than and not worthy of Gods love and should go "be gay" somewhere else? How very Christian of you.
I believe that an all-knowing being, powerful enough to create the entire cosmos and its billions of galaxies, watches me have $ex to make sure I don't do anything "naughty" like protect myself from disease with a condom. I am
(a) A victim of child molestation
(b) A r.ape victim trying to recover
(c) A mental patient with paranoid delusions
(d) A Southern Baptist?
To all those that are upset about this: Look at the positive. You now have one more organization to hate; the BSA.
Your church or yourself can form your own group. This allows you to be form new relationships with those that believe like you do. See nothing bad happened here. Just move on with your own life.
The same thing that happened in the military with Don't Ask Don't Tell and gays openly serving is slated to happen in the Boy Scouts. Before the ban was lifted to allow gays and lesbians to serve openly. people were panicking and saying it would destroy morale and that big, butch, masculine muscled straight men had to watch their rears, etc. and guess what? There's been Not One incident since gays are serving openly! Not One. The same will be with the Boy Scouts, so get over the sickening prejudice and fear already people!
While I support the BSA I don't think those that do NOT should just 'get over it'. Instead they should form their own group and break ties with the BSA. If their church decides to welcome gays, they shouldn't get over that either. They should find another church.
They have the right to their view (even if I disagree it with 100%), so they don't need to get over it. They need to stop complaining and make the necessary changes so they can associate with those that believe like they do.
@jazz, Do you think any group, organization or country should ever change or that any time times and opinions change old organizations should be dumped for new?
Saraswati: Well of course organizations can change and members can lobby for change. BUT if that change doesn't come AND the issue is important enough to the individual, I believe that individual needs to move one and find another organization that is more consistent with their values.
Take the nuns that have decided to become 'priest'. To me this is folly. They are NOT priest since who can be priest is decided by the RCC. The RCC makes the rules. My view is that these nuns (who I support), should leave the RCC and join a church more consistent with their values. If the RCC ever changes they can join back. Also, often organizations only change when members leave. The BSA changed because corporate sponsors were no longer willing to support a policy they felt was prejudice.
You are about 70% likely to believe the entire Universe began less than 10,000 years ago with only one man, one woman and a talking snake if you are:
(a) a reptile handler who has severe mental issues;
(b) a five year old boy who just read a fairytale;
(c) a scientific fraud; or
(d) a Southern Baptist?
and the correct answer is: F) All of the aboves
No – five year olds are far to smart to fall for that crap
there will be a day where all people will be free from all lies. Untill then my prayers for revelation of truth will continue.
Not on this planet.
The completely absurd theory that all 7,000,000,000 human beings on the planet are simultaneously being supervised 24 hours a day, every day of their lives by an immortal, invisible being for the purposes of reward or punishment in the “afterlife” comes from the religion of:
(a) The ancient Celts;
(b) Bronze Age Egyptians;
(c) Pre-Colombian Aztecs; or
(d) Modern Southern Baptists?
Belief, not theory (for lack of evidence). Still, some of us hope that they can raise the bar to justified belief.
It has to be d. There were not that many people around for a through c.
Evening Colin...............stony irons
Ancient Egyptians Accessorized With Meteorites
May 30, 2013 — Researchers at The Open University (OU) and The University of Manchester have found conclusive proof that Ancient Egyptians used meteorites to make symbolic accessories for their dead.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130530094635.htm
HEy science, I won't be around long tonite. Flying to London...
Hey Colin sounds like in you are in the air often............know what you flying out on ?
I personally would love a ride in the New F-35 !
Colin
London long flight...............need entertainment .......so hope for the best and it might happen Colin.
A bible thumper will sit next to you !
Peace
Science. One of us will have nightmares.....
I'll just work on my book until I nod off.