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 The Rev. R. Guy Erwin was elected the first openly gay bishop in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America on May 31.
June 3rd, 2013
02:12 PM ET
Lutherans elect first openly gay bishopBy Dan Merica and Daniel Burke, CNN (CNN)– For more than two decades, the Rev. R. Guy Erwin couldn't officially be a pastor in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. On Friday, he was elected a bishop. Erwin's election signals a shift not only for the ELCA – the nation's seventh largest church – but also for American Christianity. Only one other mainline Protestant denomination, the Episcopal Church, has elected openly gay and lesbian bishops. “In these days such milestones seem to be coming at an ever-faster rate," Erwin told CNN, "and eventually what seems revolutionary now will seem normal and predictable." With more than 4 million members in 10,000 congregations, the ELCA is the largest of several Lutheran denominations in the United States. The ELCA's decision to allow gay clergy has strained ties between those denominations, some of whom have partnered for relief work. "The ELCA is a church that belongs to Christ, and there is a place for all here," said church spokeswoman Melissa Ramirez Cooper. "The election of Pastor Erwin illustrates what many in the 4-million-member church believe - that God calls each of us by name.” The ELCA lifted its ban on openly gay, partnered clergy in 2009, clearing the way for pastors like Erwin, but angering conservatives. By some estimates, some 600 congregations have since left the ELCA for more conservative churches. The Rev. W. Stevens Shipman, director of the Lutheran Coalition for Renewal, said the ELCA is not keeping promises it made in 2009 to respect the views of churches and individuals who regard homosexuality as a sin. "The promise was also made publicly that no congregation would be required to call a pastor in a same-sex partnership," Shipman said, "but now an entire synod has been forced to live under the authority of a bishop who is in such a relationship." Erwin, a scholar at California Lutheran University, will serve a six-year term representing the Southwest California Synod, a five-county area that includes Los Angeles. His election took place an annual three-day assembly in Woodland Hills, California. Erwin, who was ordained a pastor in 2011, played down his election as the ELCA's first openly gay bishop. But acknowledged that his very “existence” was a symbol for broader acceptance. “The work of a bishop in our church is to lift up the church's message of grace and peace in the wider society, to administer the church's work in our area, and to teach and preach,” Erwin said in an e-mail to CNN. “In this regard, the sexual orientation of the bishop may not be very important.” Still, the bishop-elect said, “The very fact I exist will be a signal to others that GLBT folks are respected and have a full place in our church.” Erwin is also part Osage Indian and is active in the Osage Indian Nation, according to the ELCA. Erwin’s election symbolizes a noticeable change for a church that once banned clergy who were in same-sex relationships, said Ross Murray, director of news and Faith initiatives at GLAAD. Prior to the 2009 change, “hundreds of gay and lesbian clergy were forced out of congregations or served under secrecy,” Murray said. “Dr. Erwin demonstrates how far the ECLA has come with LGBT inclusion,” said Murray in an e-mail to CNN. “He could not have been ordained just four years ago, and now he is a leader for the church. It makes me proud as a gay man, and as a Lutheran.” Although the ELCA church did not allow clergy in same-sex relationships while he was attending seminary, Erwin said that he “always believed that this would someday be possible.” Erwin also said the church's 2009 change in policy was more of a "culmination of God's work" than a "start of something new." Erwin has long been a board member of Extraordinary Lutheran Ministries, a Lutheran group that advocates for the 130 openly gay Lutheran clergy who are members. Amalia Vagts, the group’s executive director, said Erwin’s election was an “amazing day” for openly gay and lesbian Lutherans. “This is a powerful message for LGBT people everywhere that the Lutheran church welcomes them,” Vagts said in an e-mail.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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I just knew Martin Luther was stinkpickle pusher.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_historical_existence_of_Jesus_Christ
If you read the fine print of wiki it states to not use it as an actual source. It's why even grade school teachers won't allow their children to use it, anyone can edit and 60% of it is full of lies.
Nevertheless, this is a great page from which to further investigate the topic. For instance on that page there is the statement, "No tombs have been found that match the description of the tomb he was buried in...". This might prompt you to research and discover that there is evidence of many tombs in that area and time (many in various states of age and usage, many that were likely to be abandoned, evidently).
Is there something in particular there that you have a disagreement with?
" This might prompt you to research and discover that there is evidence of many tombs in that area and time (many in various states of age and usage, many that were likely to be abandoned, evidently)"
And then some christard will use that information to make the ridiculous assertion that the jesus myth must be true because there are ancient tombs in Israel.
GOOD NEWS..............no bible needed .............the truth .
Oldest Primate Fossil Skeleton Found In China
Seth Borenstein, Associated Press | Jun. 5, 2013, 2:14 PM
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/oldest-primate-fossil-skeleton-found-in-china-2013-6#ixzz2VS35T5QS
Black Holes Abundant Among the Earliest Stars
June 5, 2013 — By comparing infrared and X-ray background signals across the same stretch of sky, an international team of astronomers has discovered evidence of a significant number of black holes that accompanied the first stars in the universe.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130605190711.htm
Join your heroes. Be one yourself.
Together, you and DC Entertainment have raised more than $2 million. This fight can be won. Here’s how.
http://www.wecanbeheroes.org/
'And if the blind lead the blind, they will both end up in a ditch'
I am very proud of my denomination today.
I didn't know there are denominations of atheism.
in canada atheists are known as ass holes and form an entire sect in celebration of being thought of that highly
delays of expected approvals for gay marriage in Illinois & Australia are temporary set-backs, BUT
great news in the UK Tuesday night as the House of Lords passed the same-se-x marriage act. The bill has already cleared the lower house. There are some procedures that bill must still go through, one of which is receiving QEII's signature. Some senior clergy have expressed that the queen will be breaking her coronation oath by signing such a bill. But despite even a recent warning by the Archbishop of Canterbury, "The Telegraph" reports that the Church of England is giving up its fight against gay marrige:
[ In a short statement, the established Church said that the scale of the majorities in both the Commons and Lords made clear that it is the will of Parliament that same se-x couples “should” be allowed to marry.
The Bishop of Leicester, who leads the bishops in the House of Lords, said they would now concentrate their efforts on “improving” rather than halting an historic redefinition of marriage. ]
"BELIEF" and "BELIEVING" are words to assert that someone's "ideologies" and "theories" (Chistian/Religion, Judaism/Religion, Islam/Religion, Science/Sect and Athiest/Sect) are the truth, where no one can prove there is a God or there isn't a God. All 4 groups mentioned here are just beliefs, like "hope".
Christians, Judaism, Islam, and Athiests are beliefs systems aka ideologies/hope therefore, it is almost like a theory, none of these groups can prove the truth because there are always questions like "Is there a God or not?" How definite is someone correct? No one is correct. You are just "assuming". You can deny it and say that what you "believe" is the truth, but who says?
Science, for example, is another sect that wants to prove everything by human intelect and understanding, but in the end it is a theory. Theory is an "assumption" that the truth cannot be proved without questions or doubts, in other words, there is no definite answers.
WHAT IS TRUTH? Truth is when there is no doubts, questions, and disputes in a person's mind and innerself, just definite answers, which the only thing that a person knows for a fact is the truth is "Self-Awareness". No one can question or dispute "Self-Awareness" that is the truth. However, people can deny this truth, but deep inside you know it is the truth, a fact, proven by oneself.
If you are still confused you are not ready to the next step of SOCIETY. This SOCIETY was created to educate people about theory, belief, ideology, hope, assumption, and truth. There are many people that share this SOCIETY that is reserved for people like you, no dues or any membership enrolment fees are ever asked of you. There is a prerequisite to be in this SOCIETY, understanding what it is written here and be able to make a meeting once a month. Every State in the US has this SOCIETY.
This is your chance to be free from an entangled mass sheep society. Only one set of people of the mass sheep society will understand what it is written here Most of you will redicule, dismiss it, write insults, will not answer or give a second thought, and others that would just say, whaaaat? Based on what your answers are there are a very few key words that you will use and determine you acceptance to the SOCIETY.
No, we do not have a website, news media is not aware of this SOCIETY, and 90% of people will not think that this SOCIETY is real, because the sheep are sleeping. We are not affiliated to any religions, sects, or political parties. We are people that live among your mass sheep mentality society by the few, but we have basic understanding and clarity of not being part of a society of sheep. 90% lives in this modern day society of sheep. Okay, now ask yourself this question both religious and athiests sects. Is everything that you believe true?
the answer to the last question is yes, and the rest of your post is just your belief.
james, how do you know that everything you believe is correct?
The truth.............below .............no fairy in the sky needed !
The Christian Be Nice article Chad Austin has been tagged/pegged !
Hey chad the game of life aye ...............and you suck at it !
Hey faithy...the troll.....all creationists...........chadie too ...............COMEDY GOLD link at bottom of post !!! The pesky meteorites/chondrites = life .........................not the nasty bible. and Adam and his bone. No horn-y red beast needed.......no heaven either..........but they (meteorites) where hot when they where coming in. Life-Producing Phosphorus Carried to Earth by Meteorites June 4, 2013 — Scientists may not know for certain whether life exists in outer space, but new research from a team of scientists led by a University of South Florida astrobiologist now shows that one key element that produced life on Earth was carried here on meteorites. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130604153520.htm http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/23/heaven-for-atheists-pope-sparks-debate/#comments
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http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/09/my-take-a-word-to-christians-be-nice/comment-page-44/#comment-2399227
1 Timothy 1:13
Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief.
Amen.
"Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief."
So HeavenSent you're admitting your ignorant, it's about time. Your cherry picking of the bible clearly has proven you don't understand scripture at all.
Pete, that is the Apostle Paul speaking about when he did not believe.
"Pete, that is the Apostle Paul speaking about when he did not believe."
Which only shows your cherry picking of the bible was not relevant to this post. What an idiot.
Lutherans are luthing their base are belong to us naow
So, are the "real" Christians who hate gays still bashing the fake Christians who don't?
Ephesians 3:4
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ
Revelation 5:4
And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Amen.
"And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. "
Yup, this is a great one for you HeavenSent but of course you posted your cherry picking scriptures without understanding the real meaning AGAIN. This speaks to you because you already admitted you left your job because you felt persecuted and if your posting on this boards is any reflection of you as a person then it's easy to see why no one would want to work with you. The weeping in this scripture is an instance of the deep grief, which people often experience when all efforts to penetrate the future fail, and they feel that after all they are left completely in the dark. That explains you too a T, you are in the dark about the real meaning of the scriptures by the poor examples of your cherry picking out of context posts.
Pete, I left my job when they gave me early retirement due to the illegal harassment that I was forced to endure by unbelievers. Those bosses, along with 100s more of their criminal cronies had to leave their positions for refusing to do what they were paid for. As far as scriptures I post. Jesus said what He meant. Not man changing His truth to what they want Him to have said.
" Those bosses, along with 100s more of their criminal cronies had to leave their positions ..."
Even in the largest corporation, there is no way that the numbers could possibly be that high. Liar.
"As far as scriptures I post. Jesus said what He meant. Not man changing His truth to what they want Him to have said."
The bible was never meant to be cherry picked the way that you are using it, the numbers were added later. You are posting scriptures without truly understanding the full meaning of them using them out of context. It's hysterical and only proves you're posting because of your ego, not because you have a true understanding of the bible.
Science
Hey I found my theme song I just love this it really says what I am about. But excuse me I just wet my pants
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJS5UOyHyQE
OK..............thanks..................who ever is the fake handle as i did not post.
Peace
Lmfao...........got no sole..............on bottom of shoe...........can be replaced or repaired !
May 21, 2013 at 8:15 pm | Report abuse |
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority/comment-page-110/#comments
How wonderful... they break with the teachings in their Bible, and church tradition for 2000 years. II was raised in this church... when I became a genuine Christian I departed from it. These pastors are nothing more then glorified social workers.... hypocrites too! Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil!
Ah yes, one of my favorite things about Christians. Despite the fact that none of you have any evidence that anything you believe is true, you're all convinced your version of Christianity is better than all the others.
Jesus Christ: Not just for white, heterosxual males anymore!
I banish you to hell for all eternity.
wow, a "genuine" christian
JACK, what makes you think YOUR interpretation of the bible is the correct one? What makes you think YOU'RE an authority on what Jesus said, when you weren't around to hear him, and neither was anyone else who wrote the gospels?
Maybe YOU'RE the one who has completely missed the boat. Maybe the Schaibles, whose 2 kids died as a result of the parents believing that it was wrong to take them to a doctor, were the ones who had it right. Their views are just as valid as yours, and they came from the same book.
You have some balls trying to say that you know and the Lutheran church doesn't. Get bent, you ass.
Woe unto them who heed not my words of proclamation unto thee! Woe betide any who disregard my warnings!
Sure hope that you or none of the people in your congregation are on their second or third marriage. That of course would make them adulterors according to your book
Gay, straight so what? The following still holds:
Putting the kibosh on all religion in less than ten seconds: Priceless !!!
• As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.
• As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.
• There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.
• There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.
• There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.
• Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.
• Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.
• A constant cycle of reincarnation until enlightenment is reached and belief that various beings (angels?, tinkerbells? etc) exist that we, as mortals, cannot comprehend makes for a no on Sikhism.
Added details available upon written request.
A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.
e.g. Taoism
"The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.
Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "
Did Jesus live... or is that an illusion too?
"Did Jesus live."
There have been many Jesus that have lived but none of them were the son of a God.
Jack, even Jesus was a real person that doesn't prove any claims about his divinity, miracles he performed or anything else.
What if Jesus proves Himself real to you?
From Professors Crossan and Watts' book, Who is Jesus.
"That Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate, as the Creed states, is as certain as anything historical can ever be.
“ The Jewish historian, Josephus and the pagan historian Tacitus both agree that Jesus was executed by order of the Roman governor of Judea. And is very hard to imagine that Jesus' followers would have invented such a story unless it indeed happened.
“While the brute fact that of Jesus' death by crucifixion is historically certain, however, those detailed narratives in our present gospels are much more problematic. "
“My best historical reconstruction would be something like this. Jesus was arrested during the Passover festival, most likely in response to his action in the Temple. Those who were closest to him ran away for their own safety.
I do not presume that there were any high-level confrontations between Caiaphas and Pilate and Herod Antipas either about Jesus or with Jesus. No doubt they would have agreed before the festival that fast action was to be taken against any disturbance and that a few examples by crucifixion might be especially useful at the outset. And I doubt very much if Jewish police or Roman soldiers needed to go too far up the chain of command in handling a Galilean peasant like Jesus. It is hard for us to imagine the casual brutality with which Jesus was probably taken and executed. All those "last week" details in our gospels, as distinct from the brute facts just mentioned, are prophecy turned into history, rather than history remembered."
See also Professor Crossan's reviews of the existence of Jesus in his other books especially, The Historical Jesus and also Excavating Jesus (with Professor Jonathan Reed doing the archeology discussion) .
Other NT exegetes to include members of the Jesus Seminar have published similar books with appropriate supporting references.
Part of Crossan's The Historical Jesus has been published online at books.google.com/books.
There is also a search engine for this book on the right hand side of the opening page. e.g. Search Josephus
See also Wikipedia's review on the historical Jesus to include the Tacitus' reference to the crucifixion of Jesus.
From ask.com,
"One of the greatest historians of ancient Rome, Cornelius Tacitus is a primary source for much of what is known about life the first and second centuries after the life of Jesus. His most famous works, Histories and Annals, exist in fragmentary form, though many of his earlier writings were lost to time. Tacitus is known for being generally reliable (if somewhat biased toward what he saw as Roman immorality) and for having a uniquely direct (if not blunt) writing style.
Then there are these scriptural references:
Crucifixion of Jesus:(1) 1 Cor 15:3b; (2a) Gos. Pet. 4:10-5:16,18-20; 6:22; (2b) Mark 15:22-38 = Matt 27:33-51a = Luke 23:32-46; (2c) John 19:17b-25a,28-36; (3) Barn. 7:3-5; (4a) 1 Clem. 16:3-4 (=Isaiah 53:1-12); (4b) 1 Clem. 16.15-16 (=Psalm 22:6-8); (5a) Ign. Mag. 11; (5b) Ign. Trall. 9:1b; (5c) Ign. Smyrn. 1.2.- (read them all at wiki.faithfutures. Crucifixion org/index.php/005_Crucifixion_Of_Jesus )
Added suggested readings:
o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.
2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
– a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication–
30-60 CE Passion Narrative
40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
50-60 1 Thessalonians
50-60 Philippians
50-60 Galatians
50-60 1 Corinthians
50-60 2 Corinthians
50-60 Romans
50-60 Philemon
50-80 Colossians
50-90 Signs Gospel
50-95 Book of Hebrews
50-120 Didache
50-140 Gospel of Thomas
50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
65-80 Gospel of Mark
70-100 Epistle of James
70-120 Egerton Gospel
70-160 Gospel of Peter
70-160 Secret Mark
70-200 Fayyum Fragment
70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
80-100 2 Thessalonians
80-100 Ephesians
80-100 Gospel of Matthew
80-110 1 Peter
80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
80-130 Gospel of Luke
80-130 Acts of the Apostles
80-140 1 Clement
80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
80-250 Christian Sibyllines
90-95 Apocalypse of John
90-120 Gospel of John
90-120 1 John
90-120 2 John
90-120 3 John
90-120 Epistle of Jude
93 Flavius Josephus
100-150 1 Timothy
100-150 2 Timothy
100-150 T-itus
100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
100-150 Secret Book of James
100-150 Preaching of Peter
100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
100-160 2 Peter
3. Historical Jesus Studies, faithfutures.org/HJstudies.html,
– "an extensive and constantly expanding literature on historical research into the person and cultural context of Jesus of Nazareth"
4. Jesus Database, faithfutures.org/JDB/intro.html–"The JESUS DATABASE is an online annotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm
6. The Jesus Seminar, mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/seminar.html#Criteria
7. Writing the New Testament- mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/testament.html
8. Health and Healing in the Land of Israel By Joe Zias
joezias.com/HealthHealingLandIsrael.htm
9. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.
Summarizing the above:
The Apostles' Creed 2013: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)
Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
Jerusalem.
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
Amen
(references used are available upon request)
In case you missed .....HotAirAce called me asshoIe yesterday, I am waiting for hindu to show up on this forum again, filthy denier of truth absolute Allah
I believe several people made that accurate observation.
I believe the quote was "fuck off, asshole."
Huh? OK. Page 31. Under faith original post at 9:54AM reply by Bill at 10:47AM.
Yeah, ok - sort of underwhelming, but thanks.
Huh? OK. Page 31.
Huh? Page 31.
Huh? Page 31.
Michael Corleone....Forgive me father for I have sinned, I ordered my own brother and many others murdered...Confessor, well these things happen you are absolved of all your sins, about that offering....
[clop clop]
ARTHUR: Old crone! Is there anywhere in this town where we could buy
a shrubbery!
[dramatic chord]
CRONE: Who sent you?
ARTHUR: The Knights Who Say Nee.
CRONE: Agh! No! Never! We have no shrubberies here.
ARTHUR: If you do not tell us where we can buy a shrubbery, my friend
and I will say... we will say... `nee'.
CRONE: Agh! Do your worst!
ARTHUR: Very well! If you will not assist us voluntarily,... nee!
CRONE: No! Never! No shrubberies!
ARTHUR: Nee!
BEDEMIR: Noo! Noo!
ARTHUR: No, no, no, no - it's not that, it's 'nee'.
BEDEMIR: Noo!
ARTHUR: No, no - 'nee'. You're not doing it properly.
BEDEMIR: Noo! Nee!
ARTHUR: That's it, that's it, you've got it.
ARTHUR and BEDEMIR: Nee! Nee!
ROGER: Are you saying 'nee' to that old woman?
ARTHUR: Um, yes.
ROGER: Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say `nee'
at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land, nothing
is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under
considerable economic stress at this period in history.
ARTHUR: Did you say `shrubberies'?
ROGER: Yes, shrubberies are my trade - I am a shrubber. My name
is Roger the Shrubber. I arrange, design, and sell shrubberies.
BEDEMIR: Nee!
ARTHUR: No! No, no, no! No!
We shall take this shrubbery and place it in a weir, forstalling all those who would dare to seek an unweired shrubbery!
Let us gather and celebrate at Camelot, sparing no expense in the dancing!
Huh?
Right, sorry should be April 29 in reply faith @ 9:54 AM. Bill's reply @ 10:47 AM. My bad hit 0 instead of 9.
ignore