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 The group Recovering from Religion plans to start a helpline for people struggling with religious doubts.
June 4th, 2013
03:08 PM ET
Atheists to start 1-800 hotline for doubtersBy Dan Merica, CNN (CNN) – Who can people call when religious doubts arise, but they're afraid to talk to their faith leaders or families? A group that helps people "recover" from religion says it's ready to pick up the phone. Recovering from Religion, which has about 40 support groups in the U.S. and Britain, plans to launch a hotline that will offer doubters an anonymous place to ask difficult questions and find communities of like-minded nonbelievers. The group plans to staff the help line 24 hours a day and is modeling it after services like suicide prevention hotlines. Sarah Morehead, executive director of Recovering from Religion, told CNN that the mission is to help people, not convert them to atheism. “A lot of the times they just need someone to talk to," Morehead said. The 1-800 number has yet to be named. Recovering from Religion is trying to raise $30,000 by June 30 to fund "The Hotline Project" with up to 40 counselors. Ideally, the help line would be live by the holiday season, said Morehead, which is often a difficult time for people struggling with religious doubts. Photos: Famous atheists and their beliefs The idea for the hotline sprang up after calls came in to the Recovering from Religion phone line from people who were questioning their faith and needed to talk to someone. Morehead said she gets a few calls every day and hundreds of e-mails a month from people seeking counseling. From there, she said, it seemed a hotline that provided a permanent, anonymous place to talk to someone was the best option. "Coming out" as a nonbeliever - or even a doubter - can often be extremely difficult, Morehead and others say. In addition to the existential worries, budding nonbelievers run the risk of alienating family and friends. The help line’s volunteer counselors will be trained to not engage in religious debate, Morehead said. Instead, they will try to give callers “practical, action-oriented solutions.” When someone first calls the hotline, the counselor will start by simply asking the caller to talk about his or her personal story, said Morehead. Later, the counselor and the caller might work on an action plan. The caller's goals may concern formally leaving religion altogether, but Morehead said that counselors will also offer advice on finding a new faith or connecting with a local community of nonbelievers. Some blogs have questioned the hotline, however, calling it a ploy to increase the number of atheists in America. Headlines like “New 1-800 Number Funded By Liberals To Convert Christians to Atheists,” for example, have cropped up at a number of conservative blogs. Morehead said her critics fail to grasp the point of Recovering from Religion. “Most of the people who contact us are working their way towards disbelief, so of course we are very equipped to handle that,” Morehead said. “That is not the goal, though, or the job of the facilitators.” Photos: 'Born-again' celebrities This hotline is not completely unique in the world of religious "nones" – people who either don’t believe in God or don’t affiliate with any religious beliefs. Atheists have long discussed disbelief in the comfort of online anonymity. “We have seen how important the Internet is, especially young people questioning their faith, and this provides them with another resource with a different focus,” said Jesse Galef, communications director for the Secular Student Alliance. “For people who want more guidance, I think this resource will be very valuable.” Services that help religious doubters have thrived recently. The Clergy Project, an online community for preachers who no longer believe in God, has grown from 52 to nearly 500 people since its founding in 2011, said Teresa MacBain, the former executive director of the project. MacBain, a former pastor who converted to atheism, called the help line "another way for people to contact someone anonymously and discuss the struggles they are having for their beliefs.” “If this project had been around when I found the Clergy Project, I would have used it.” MacBain said she plans to get training as one of the counselors and hopes to be answering calls when the service launches. soundoff (3,878 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 Next »
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Many atheists DO have a belief...and it's not what you think. Atheists believe that ALL claims must be supported by objective evidence, and that we are obligated to withhold belief until such evidence is presented. Atheists (myself included) think there's something scary (and ultimately dangerous) about defining reality by something other than evidence...
...Atheism is just a side effect of a greater rationalism...
That said, atheists DO feel strongly that a rational approach is, well, better. And, of course they wish to share that with others and win people over for the betterment of humanity...is that a problem?
Yes, that's a problem when the wurld is not rational. The proof you accept is highly suspect and subject to bwain washing cycles as well. You deny spin doctors??
Enjoy life as much as you can. Pay you bills yourself while you can, think independently no matter what religion you have. I know some people are radical in each type of religious affiliation that they have and that is just life. Deal with it. Most people are nice because we all have best friends and your best friends don't have to have a certain religion. Help the weak, learn from the smart and balance the budget. My religion is – living debt free and learning from the library.
Please provide detailed and specific evidence for the existence of a god, and then we can talk...
lol?? – what proof is highly suspect?
lol??,
No, but the world, and the physical laws governing it, are rational things and can be understood objectively. People, on the other hand, often behave irrationally. Don't confuse the two. And yes, there are spin doctors. That's why we require objective evidence. This is the ONLY way we can make meaningful distinctions between competing ideas – incidentally, THIS is how you avoid the spin doctors and sort out their nonsense. That was sort of my point...
For the record, I accept evidence that is independently verifiable, reproduceable, and forms the basis for testable predictions. When the "evidence I accept" stops doing this, then I'll stop believing it. Also, when religious claims can do any of the above, I'll take them more seriously. So far, its been anecdotes and asserted conclusions...
Hm, well, the problem is the whole concept of "rational". Religion isn't. Faith is diametrically opposed to reason. Sad but true.
“The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.” 1 Timothy 4:1.
“Jesus said to his disciples: ‘Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come.’” Luke 17:1.
“…However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8.
Wow, the end times. Luckily, this hasn't been predicted before, so we know it's a really valid warning....
Blah blah blah.
“So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
Robert Holt, I'll see you in the rapture capsule with the unicorns. Don't forget to wear your nose ring – the big steel one that I padlocked the chain onto when we were practiciing for the Uplifting.
"... in later times some will abandon the faith ...'
Christianity was never established as THE faith and still isn't.
"Lumos Patronus! ....and the wand glowed brightly" – Harry Potter 3:26
Golly gee, it's a good thing that none of those passages could be descriptive of 10,000 events that have taken place since they were written. Otherwise they might be suspect!
With over 20% of Americans now identifying as religiously unaffiliated and MANY of the people who do identify themselves as Christians are only saying that to stay part of "the club" and to not be ostracized by their Christian friends, the numbers of the deluded are dwindling.
In this century of science, the bronze age voodoo of Christianity is on its way out.
that's what the Romans said
DD is right. Christianity is headed to the dustbin where all the other old god fables went. Once that becomes better known, a lot of the hangers-on will feel free to let go to, and there will be a cascade.
DD is right. Christianity is headed to the dustbin where all the other old god fables went. Once that becomes better known, a lot of the hangers-on will feel free to let go too, and there will be a cascade.
Bronze knuckles beat brass knuckles every time. You sound a little brassy, like a Chihuahua.
Actually bill it was the Romans that spread christianity throughout the Western world – directly throughout Europe with their empire expansion and indirectly throughout the Americas, Australia, and Africa with the expansion of the European empires.
So how long will it be before this gets outsources to India?
Some guy with a funny accent named 'Bob' will tell you to check the power cord, reboot your system, and convet to Hindu.
This is very much so it is. You can try also to make sure to do automatic updates yes. You can also try did you our online support.
Atheism, self center ism has given nothing to humanity but hindrance to truth absolute GOD, hinduism, racism, a hind illegality around the globe. A gross violation of human rights, a hind crime to commit secular ism, terrorism against humanity, under cover of religion. 300 million human treated like animals in land of atheism, self center ism india.
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_hmOoqOEbg&w=640&h=360]
lying ism troll ism.
Unless you believe in all 3700+ gods that mankind has worshiped, then you yourself are also an atheist.
What are you trying to say? You are speaking gibberish.
Islam bot trollism hurt in the head ism.
Have Faith in the lord. You are loved. Yes, everyone, and I mean everyone has doubts at times. But you will get through the hard times. Have faith.
You spelled Jamie wrong
Why?
The Lord who will barbeque me for eternity if I don't believe in him, loves me?
How sweet.
Why WOULD your mom spell your name that way? Why not Jaime or Jamie? Oh. You're "special".
Which god are you referring to...there are thousands?
Jaimie
All christians have doubts because the bible is full of contradictions and mistakes.
No thanks. I have no desire to have faith in your lord. Or santa. Or the easter bunny. Or Harry Potter.
helping someone with their problems.........what a Christian thing to do
I help people with their problems daily, and I am an atheist....it is a HUMAN thing to do....no gods required.
killing is also HUMAN......is that the HUMAN thing to do?
bill
Yes, but is against human nature..
Christians have killed millions, so it is also the christian thing to do.
What a neighborly thing to do. Do you think Christians have a monopoly on helping others?
do unto others as you would have them do unto you...love your neighbor...Jesus
yes bill...the christians have "loved " millions of people to death...is there a point?
yes, the point is you are confusing actions of so-called christians with the teachings of Jesus......"christians" have killed millions in the past but you will find Jesus' teachings are contrary to those actions
do unto others as you would have them do unto you...love your neighbor...Jesus
You can find the same thing in the Vedas, which precede Jeebus by 2000 years.
Bill
Christ told people that the OT was still in play, that it was the work of god and could not be broken, so it is one of the many contradictions within your religion. There are many reasons to kill according to the bible.
Secondly you are employing the No True Scotman defence, which is very weak.
Killing is OK to christians , more than atheists ever could fathom.
Richard
you appear to know quite a lot about the Bible and Christianity....where in the NT does Jesus say that the OT is still in play?
bill
john 10:35
again in matthew 5:17-19
luke 16:17
There are many places he re-inforces this in various spots.
Reading through comment sections like this really makes me feel sorry for the direction of our country. May God have mercy on your souls.
Which one of the thousands of gods do you mean?
Souls? Like from Harry Potter?
No, he may not.
Well then, if that is what you want then go for it. But remember.... It is ok to pray to the lord for forgiveness in your final moments. Even if you don't pray out loud but to yourself he hears you. He loves you. Remember that. There is life after death.
So your brother in Christ, Adolf Hitler...all he had to do was repent in his final moments and he is in... I want nothing to do with a god that would allow that.
Hitler was already a christian. One of his first political actions was to make christian prayer mandatory in public schools.
"There is life after death."
There is an opinion
There is life after death.
And unless you die gloriously in battle, bathed in the blood of your slain foes, there will be no Valhalla for you!
My question is this... why does any of this matter? Why does it matter if someone believes and if someone doesn't? Why can't we judge each other for our actions and not our beliefs? I know amazing people from both sides, and I know there are millions more like them. Why is it that we have to hate each other? nobody truly knows what happens after life, and we never will. Religion has it's view, as does science. To put it simply.. both are theories. We will never know, so how about instead of hating each other we act like decent human beings, tolerate one another, and be happy. Oh, and I won't state my beliefs. You'll have to hypothesize.
Thank you. so very well said.
It matters when those beliefs are forced on others.
The lie "in god we trust" on our money, the blue laws, The pledge of allegience being taken away from "we the people", changing it from it's original and excluding all who do not believe in gods..etc, etc, etc, etc.
Also to let other atheists know they are not alone and do not have to hide in the shadows.
That's why.
Why is it that we have to hate each other?
Because God says so.
@Food
I don't need to hypothesize what your beliefs are, that's not important to me, nor anyone on this blog.
Your beliefs are your own and I can only hope that you've chosen to do your own research on the matter and arrive at a conclusion that's based on reason.
Why the hate you ask? Well Christianity encourages the exclusion and xenophobia that comes with the religion. It lays out an "us" vs. "them" mentality. There are also christian lawmakers and lobbyists who try and legislate that belief in hopes of conversion, which is where the hate from the other side comes in. Passively accepting or ignoring it has proven it doesn't work, you have to forcibly reject and fight back against christian legislation to keep it at bay.
On a micro level, there are many lovely people of all faiths, people trying to live their lives the best they can, the hate arrives when religion seeks to separate people and isolate outsiders which is why atheists like myself target the religion and not the people, unfortunately the people take it as a personal insult when question the belief itself....
Why is it that we have to hate each other?
---–
Good post. Maybe humans just have a base need to be right, and make certain that others are wrong to drive home the point that they are right? Is it insecurity?
Hypothesis: You are an Atheist since you said "we will never know!"
Well, as a Christian, I believe we will know when we die.
🙂
Vic
You can believe that all you want...there is no evidence that you are correct though.
@Bible Sandwich
You just prove me right, and that isn't good. Why hate a person for their beliefs?
@Chuckles
The belief remark was made to silence those who would 'attack' me on whether or not I'm an atheist or Christian. I wasn't intending anything else.
As for religion as a whole, I don't think it was meant to be where we have chosen to take it. People, humanity, has corrupted it. We have turned it into a political factor, etc. Now I'm not lobbying in support of it, just trying to reason why we shouldn't condemn the entirety of religion. It's poor leaders, and all of its extreme followers have tainted what it should be used for. In essence, the presence of religion in this world is not something to hate. Those who follow it, are some of the greatest people I know. They're selfless, loving, kind, etc. It doesn't bother me that they choose to believe, follow the teachings, etc. Oh, and the thing that will throw most people off is.. The greatest Christians I know, do not thrust it down others throats. The worst, and the 'corrupted' are the ones that do.
FoodForThought said it all perfectly. This is just another article by CNN to stir up a hornet's nest. Nothing brings out the hatred in people better than the topic of religion.
dome, u can believe u r right. u have no evidence, do u?
Richard Cranium
chrome dome
Vic
You can believe that all you want...there is no evidence that you are correct though.
Amen!!
@Food
1. So you were intending to be attacked by goading readers? Self-fulfilling prophacy much?
2. You honestly have no idea why religion, any religion, was created and the purpose of each creator. You would like to believe that it was created by a just person or people and only though the basta.rdization of it through misinterpretation and poor leadership has led to what we have today, but look at religions like Mormonism, founded by a knwon con artist who's religion now has a powerful church full of people paying directly to it. Who's to say lots of different religions were started with nefarious purposes.
As for the "greatet christians you know", It's just opinion based. These people are great to you because you are friends with them and they are, most likely, good people who just happen to have faith. What you fail to understand though is that if these "great christian" friends of yours aren't interested in spreading the gospel like they are commanded to, then they might be great people, but they're being bad christians. You understand? The religion has made it that an otherwise good person, living their life, surrounding themselves with loving friends and families and doing charitable things can still be considered "bad" by religion because they aren't following dogmatic law asking them to alienate and pester other people.
If you're looking for why there's "all the hate" start with the fact that many religions encourage and/or command the followers to proseltyze.
I noticed that some very well known, high-profile people who are deeply respected were left off the born again list that was linked. Nelson Mandela, Bono, etc. I'm not making a case either way here other than one of fairness in reporting. Definitely slanted (yellow) journalism on CNN regarding this topic.
Unless they have repented of their sins, been baptised in the name of Jesus, and filled with the Holy Spirit as evidenced by speaking in another language (tongues) as stated by Peter on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38), they are not born again.
Jesus Himself spoke of this future conversion in John 3:5 by stating you had to be born of the water and of the Spirit.
@truth................... So you believe in ghosts??
The people who do things like this in reality are the first ones to jump on the proverbial bandwagon and blindly believe. They can't just choose to believe there's no god and religion's are wrong. Instead they're all over the movement and actively try convert the masses.
The reality is that people don't need your help with regards to religion. It's a personal choice and it's one people have to make alone. Atheists are no better equipped to figure out the meaning of life then anyone else so spare us all the phony hotline.
Spare me your phony platitudes.
If it's not your cup of tea, don't call. You haven't any clue as to the experiences of other people.
As a Christian all I can do is pray for their souls.
i.e. nothing
As an athiest, all I can do is hope that you see reason some day.
Bryan: How sweet. To which god to you pray?
It doesn't make any sense that if my soul is in danger, all you have to do is whisper something about it, and the creator of the universe reads your mind, and only then says, "Okay, okay, I'll let him off this time, with a warning."
If you truly believe that, then I'd like know the name of your local pot dispensary.
religion is the primary source of hatred in the world
selfishness is the primary source of hatred in this world.
And your judgment of religion is apparently another source of hatred.
If they did something like this for gay people, everyone would be up in arms... oh wait...
Operator: "1-800-no gods, how can I help?"
Spiritualist: "Yes my house is haunted"
Operator: "No, it isn't you just think it is"
Spiritualist: "But the picture on the wall caught fire"
Operator: "Faulty wiring"
ect...
I want call transcripts.
Hello?
Hi, I have a problem with God...
Ok, have you seen the stars lately. Saturn is to be in full bloom. The sun is at you back and the moon is at your feet. Take an aspirin and call me tomorrow... good bye.
makes as about much sense..
Everyone knows that Energy is eternal and was transpose to Matter, E=MC2. With this being said we know that there is a First cause.
I think you have problems with assumptions.... and understanding capitalization.....
Chuckles- They are caps to place emphasis on the word. No assumptions, you know what they say.
And what caused the First Cause?
The fact that you have issues capitalizing names (kenrick and Benjamin....) and the haphazard way you keep doing it throughout the sentence shows that at best you tried to emphasize somewords and don't understand the finer points of capitalization.
Second, stating we know there had to be a first cause, capitalizing that to imply god was said "first cause" is your issue with assumption and not realizing what you are actually posting.
I would reccomend a heathy dose of brushing up on the finer points of grammar, philosophy of logic and understanding the current theories on the origin of the universe.
Rev. You know like I know, Jehovah God of course.
I agree that there was a first cause. We know for certain that the universe exists, so we know for certain that it was created.
That's all we know so far, and we won't know more until we have more information. Any other fictional speculation about how or why that all happened, is just that.
The equation E=mcc was an offchute of the greater theory of relativity....the equation itself only defines energy for easier study, to define it so we have a starting place.
If you really understood the ENTIRE theory, you would not come to the conclusion you have posted.
Chuckles- I don't assume I know, but yet still you understood what was being said. Good enough.
@Kenrick
You don't assume you know or you don't assume, you know? Punctuation is very important, it's the difference between, I helped my uncle Jack off a horse and I helped my uncle jack off a horse.
plus, if you prefer to skate by hoping to write gibberish and then having people try to unpack meainng from it then go for it, but I see a lot of confusion in your future.
Chuckles- You are that good that you can see into my future, how presumptuous of you. So tell me does anyone else know of this.
Chuckles- To think you can see into the future and you still haven't seen God. I have one word for you, Pray like your life depend on it.
kenny, how do go (leap!) from e=mc2 to a first cause to some (unproven) god? Where is the variable, or formula, that represents or proves a god?
@Kenrick
That's silly, apparently since you believe I can actually see into the future, maybe you should just worship me. Since I foretold there would be a lot of confusion in your future and apparently that's already come to fruition, apparently I have magical gifts of prohecy. Follow me, I will show you the true path, your phony bologna god couldn't even do that much for you.
Chucky my boy, you are giving yourself way too much credit, try again.
HotAirAce- This is because Energy which is eternal was Converted (transpose) to Matter which is the make up of our universe and the only first cause that we have evidence for, to date. Because energy is eternal it has a value of Zero, we all know that the value of nothing is Zero. If these 2 are added, subtracted, multiply or divided the value is Zero. THe only thing that in, encompasses everything is God by definition. So it is Eternal energy(0) + Nothing (0) = God (0)
If something is eternal why do you assign it a value of 0? Why not infinity, or any other value? Do you have a reference to something that explains this (il)logic, or is this just another manifestation of your mental illness?
At least you got it right about your god – there is virtually 0 probability that your, or any, god exists.
HotAirAce- The Value of infinity is 1 not Zero because it has a reference point, you need some schooling and I just don't have the time to give it to you.
HotAirAce- I have a little time, so let me school you, Infinity has a starting point which is it's reference point, because of this infinity can be devisible by it self, which is I / I = 1. On the other hand Eternity which has no beginning or end has no reference point, so it has to be devisible by something other than it self, the thing that is other than it self is Negative E, which is E / -E = 0 .
HotAirAce- I meant divisible, not devisible.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Easter3_album/media/highwaytoheaven.jpg.html
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
This seems like a very evangelic behavior. It seems strange to be so envangelic about a lack of belief.
It is not set up to proselytize. It is set up to provide support for people who are struggling with a spiritual ident!ty.
that remains to be seen. If the people on the phone behave like the athiest on the page it will be to proselytize. In either case it is still an evangelic approach to convert to your side of the converstion. I just saying it seems counter intuitive to be evangelic about sometime defined as a lack of belief as opposed to a belief in something.
"It seems strange to be so envangelic about a lack of belief."
Not when those beliefs are so destructive.
It still seems strange to actively try to recruit to a system for no belief.
for instance "come a join us in our nothing. we don't have a belief and we want you to not have one too"
Not much of a sales pitch really. You have to have something to recruit too and atheism is a lack of belief.
How about this for a slogan: "Abandon hope all ye who enter here"?
Dull Beacon, the Christians already took that slogan. Along with a lot of the hateful sayings in their bible.
just wandering
I do not believe in gods...i do not LACK a belief. That's like saying I lack cancer.
If the hotline helps just one gay youth who up until the phone call thought he was worthless and sinful, and bound for Hell, because Christians have told him so; and now that kid has hope, and feels self esteem for the first time, in the absense of Christian dogma telling him otherwise, then the hotline is well worth it.
One more time for the thick headed.....
Atheism is a lack of belief in god. Like it or not, that's exactly what it means.... nothing more. It's the same as saying "I do not have"
@richard "I do not believe in gods" I do not have cancer. I lack a belief in gods I lack cancer, seems like the same thing to me
@enjay I'm not saying they should not have the hotline. Some one wants to have a hotline let them. I just saying its seems like a evangelic thing to do for a group that doesn't beleive in something. They are trying to recruit to a not believing. when you recruit it is usually tio a beleif in something not a lack of belaif in something. Also didn't say a thing about gay youths neither did the article.
again for the unneccesarily rude. Atheism is a belief that there are no gods. I lack nothing in this regard.
I do not lack religion, cancer, tumors...all are malignant things so "lacking" them is silly.
@richard what did I say that was rude
@richard sorry I missed the fintastic comment i withdraw my questions about what I said that was rude
@just wondering,
Okey dokey. It seems evangelical. So what? All I'm saying is that if this evangelism helps people come to terms with life outside the discriminatory world view of Christianity, then it's worthy, regardless how it's labeled or perceived.
We don't have zero beliefs, as Christians love to point out. We believe in humanity. We believe in common sense. We believe in logic, and compassion, and intelligence, and creativity. We just don't happen to believe in your god.
We have just as much a right to share our beliefs as you do.
Dwayne, where in the Bible does it say that? Let em give you a hint. Find an Italian version.
@enjay interesting assumption. I never identified my self as religious or christian neither did I saty the hjotline should not be set up used. I also never suggested any group had any more or less right to share there beliefs. I simply stated it seems strange to be evangelic about a lack of belief at in something or as Richard put it not beleiving in something. The rest of you rant is based on your own discriminatory filters. Seems you may more in common with the religious then you realize
@just wondering,
setting up a help line is not an act of evangelism. Is it possible that counsellors on the help line will cross the line into proselytizing? Certainly, and conceivably there is a hidden agenda to do just that, but on face value, this hotline is not about proselytizing.
Besides, atheism is not a faith or a belief. It is not an attack on religion. A recruiting campain is not necessary.
In the all too familiar "you're either with us or against us" mode of organized religion, so many of the religious posters here conflate disbelief with the anti-theist behaviour of those minority, militant atheists who rally around the banners of Dawkins/Hitchens etc and talk about the destruction of religion.
Most atheists are willing to live and let live, but as soon as anyone expresses disbelief here they are excoriated by believers and their motives questioned as being part of a movement or a system of beliefs. It is this kind of action by believers that is why this helpline is a good idea.
Of course there are plenty of believers who are willing to live and let live too. Few of them post here.
@Just wondering, for someone who I'm only assuming is religious, you sure do seem to be offended by my anti-Christian points. Maybe you're completely unreligious, but you sure seem to be very clearly anti-atheist. So that's what I'm commenting on.
And again if you think my views make me seem to be "more in common with the religious than I realize" that's you making one of those apparently illegal assumptions. As an atheist I don't believe in what Christians believe. That doesn't mean I have something against "seeming religious". I don't care how it seems. It is what it is.
@Richard............ you seem like a smart person, yet you claim .....I believe that I don't believe.......
whatever...
@Just wondering..... "@richard "I do not believe in gods" I do not have cancer. I lack a belief in gods I lack cancer, seems like the same thing to me"
Absolutely.... of course it is.......... .......