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June 6th, 2013
10:37 AM ET

With his speech, valedictorian brings God to graduation

By Jessica Ravitz, CNN
[twitter-follow screen_name='JRavitzCNN']

(CNN) - Leading up to Saturday’s ceremony, Roy Costner IV prayed on what he was going to do. Liberty High School’s 2013 valedictorian would soon find himself in front of a microphone. He’d have a pulpit from which he could address his small community tucked away in South Carolina’s mountainous corner.

Only his father and pastor knew what was weighing on his heart and mind. Could he, should he, insert a prayer in his pre-approved graduation speech? He’d been told by the school principal that talk of religion wasn’t allowed, and so far he’d followed the rules.

But as the day approached, the 18-year-old couldn’t deny what he felt he needed to do.

“I wanted to stand up for God,” he explained Wednesday. “This is what God wanted me to do.”

So Costner, in cap and gown, stood behind the podium and ripped up his original speech. Before he gave shout-outs to coaches, cheerleaders and friends, there was something else he wanted to say.

“One thing I am certain of is we’re all a sum of our experiences, both good and bad,” he told his fellow graduates, a class of about 150. “All in all, those experiences, the people who mentored us, that we look up to, they have helped carve and mold us into the young adults that we are today. I’m so thankful that both of my parents led me to the Lord at a young age. And I think most of you will understand when I say, ‘Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name …”

The crowd before him began to cheer as he recited the Lord’s Prayer, drowning out a few verses. The school principal, sitting behind him, appeared uncomfortable and peered down at papers on her lap. The school district’s superintendent, a few seats over, couldn’t help but smile.

“I was tearing up,” Costner said, remembering the moment. “I was overwhelmed by the response. … The clapping was so loud I couldn’t hear myself talking into the microphone.”

His father told CNN's Piers Morgan on Thursday night he was overwhelmed with pride for his son. The younger Costner approached his dad a few days before the speech and showed him what he wanted to do.

"I said, 'Look, if you're doing this for political reasons, don't. But if you're doing it because you feel led to do it and you feel this is a part of your speech, then I want you to do it and I'll stand by you,' " Roy Costner III said.

Some who were there heaped on praise when talking to CNN affiliate WYFF. One called it “pretty impressive.” Another student said it “took a lot of courage” and that “people were proud that he stood up for what he believed in.”

What he believes is that Liberty, a town with three stoplights and a population of 3,000, “fully supports prayer.”

He also believes that organizations such as the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Madison, Wisconsin, group dedicated to maintaining separation of church and state, should stop meddling in the affairs of the Pickens County School District. The foundation, over this past school year, has leaned on the district to keep Jesus and student-led prayers out of school board meetings.

Other concerns went beyond board meetings. This spring, the foundation’s staff attorney sent a lawyer representing the district a letter about complaints of alleged discriminatory hiring and religious promotion in another county high school and praise music being played in an elementary school classroom. The foundation said it learned of such practices by way of community members who are, in fact, not fully supporting prayer.

Costner said he set out to make a statement, one he hopes will inspire others to stand up, too, for what he sees as the good of this country.

“Taking prayer out of schools is the worst thing we could do,” he said.

If Costner went to a Christian school, there would be no discussion, said Annie Laurie Gaylor, co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation. But in public schools, even in a place where there may be a religious majority, prayers such as his are clearly unconstitutional, she said. What’s more, she added, what he did shows contempt for school district policy and a lack of sensitivity for his audience.

“It’s aggressive. It’s supremely rude,” she said. “This student is old enough to know that not everyone in the audience is Christian.”

But Costner, who was bouncing between interviews and heading to New York for TV appearances, said he counts atheists among his friends. He said that even though he doesn’t agree with their beliefs, he respects them – and that they do the same for him.

The elder Costner said his son had been inundated with messages of support, even from atheists.

He said he thinks the video of the speech resonated with people across the country because many people "really want something to hold onto for hope."

The son said he’s experienced no blowback from the district for what he did. And a district spokesman suggested Costner won’t.

“He’s a graduate now, so there’s nothing we can do about it even if we wanted to,” John Eby told WYFF. “But the bottom line is we’re not going to punish students for expressing their religious faiths.”

The district, Eby explained to CNN Friday morning, is in a “nearly impossible position.” He said federal law, under the Establishment Clause, is clear that public schools cannot “approve in advance a student’s prayer” or “carve out time specifically for religious expression.” But, under the Free Exercise Clause, he added, “we can’t punish students who do pray.”

Gaylor doesn’t expect there to be any punishment. But without issuing some sort of statement expressing disappointment and reiterating school policy, she said, the district is making a mistake.

“It’s one thing if a school doesn’t have a policy,” she said. “But when they do, they really need to enforce their policy because otherwise it’s just a wink and a nod.”

Eby has an answer to this.

“I do want to reiterate that we don’t approve rule breaking,” he said. “But we are very serious about protecting our students’ rights to express themselves religiously – or refuse to.”

- CNN Writer/Producer

Filed under: Belief • Christianity

soundoff (5,383 Responses)
  1. get to know your religion

    Take a good look from a rational perspective:

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_historical_existence_of_Jesus_Christ

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Why_Won%27t_God_Heal_Amputees

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Failed_biblical_prophecies

    June 11, 2013 at 9:20 am |
    • Dyslexic doG

      outstanding!!!

      June 11, 2013 at 9:23 am |
  2. The real Tom

    I just clicked on Science's post on another thread about the "godless mom" and saw Austintasia's comment from back in March: "A child is the opposite of an atheist."

    I love it. Some 23-year-old, wet-behind-the-ears nutter who's never been married or raised a child telling people all about children. Comedy gold.

    June 11, 2013 at 9:00 am |
    • Science

      Tom

      Thanks ..............love playing mind games...................getting old you know.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:16 am |
    • Science

      Tom update on..............The blue box COMEDY GOLD..............the who's tail is stuck ?

      Vatican: Pope didn't perform exorcism – CNN Belief Blog – CNN ...

      religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/21/vatican-pope-didnt-perform-exorcism

      May 21, 2013 · COMEDY GOLD.....it is THE PEARLY GATES !.....what a JOKE ! Heaven for atheists? ... it is THE PEARLY GATES !.....what a JOKE ! Heaven for …

      http://www.bing.com/search?q=COMEDY+GOLD................it+is+THE+PEARLY+GATES+%21.............what+a+JOKE+%21&form=HPNTDF&pc=HPNTDF&src=IE-SearchBox

      June 11, 2013 at 11:37 am |
    • Science

      Another Tom............ you know Comedy Gold deal.

      ..can not forget faith you know.

      The MATRIX faith........................great mind game..............all between the ears.

      Hey bible thumpers it is all between your ears that red horn-y beast.........look what the little blue box has to offer .too !

      My take: A word to Christians – Be nice – CNN Belief Blog ...

      religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/09/my-take-a-word-to-christians-be-nice

      Feb 09, 2013 · Hey all creationists ... No horn-y red beast needed ... bible thumpers ? Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought.

      http://www.bing.com/search?q=Hey+bible+thumpers+it+is+all+between+your+ears+that+red+horn-y+beast.&form=HPNTDF&pc=HPNTDF&src=IE-SearchBox

      Other links there too faith at Bing.

      June 11, 2013 at 7:24 pm |
  3. Fantastic speech!

    Roy Costner's speech was an awesome acknowledgement of his creator, Almighty God. Thanking God is the hallmark of the wise.
    Cheers, Roy Costner IV.

    June 11, 2013 at 8:37 am |
    • Dyslexic doG

      yep. if God hadn't been around to create him out of dirt, he never would have been able to graduate. Thanks God.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:39 am |
    • The real Tom

      It was as phony as Austin's claims.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:40 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Yeah...Hitler thanked god and acknowleged god in many of his speeches, and we can see how well that whole situation worked out.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:57 am |
    • Austin

      RC you allready know we are talking about Jesus Christ. Not Hitler. Read the new testament concerning apostate anti Christ deceiver.

      With that, this has no quest for money. Believe on the Holy Spirit.

      That name and the blood of Jesus are life.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:01 am |
    • The real Tom

      And Austin misses the point yet again.

      What makes Costner–or you-any different than Hitler? Saying you are godly and that you have data makes you nothing different from him. You and he made claims and expect others to believe them.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:03 am |
    • Al

      Roy Costner's speech was an awesome acknowledgement of his creator, Almighty God.

      I'm not a biologist, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that his parents created him.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:28 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      No austin.
      You do not understand. You like to think you do but you clearly don't. Jesus may have been a man, we cannot be sure, but the character Jesus in your bible is nothing more than a metaphor. ALl of the kindness, "good" things that humans are capable, a virtual perfect man we should all strive to emulate, but a character ( like the Jedi knights or Superman)...a literary tool...The same applies to the character of satan...all of the "evil" and negativity that man also possesses. ( all of the supervillains, the "evil empire" the " dark side" etc)....nothing but literary tools.
      To take it a seriously as you do, shows your addictive personality disorder all the more clearly.

      Seriously...get some professional help, and in a spot that does not start with (or end with ) the bible.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:36 am |
    • sam stone

      ubermensch

      June 11, 2013 at 9:46 am |
    • sam stone

      RC: Austin just switched drugs, from alcohol to jeebus

      June 11, 2013 at 9:47 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Sam Stone
      I know... I see it all the time as I volunteer at an addiction outreach program. He needs to address his addictive personality disorder. I have tried to tell him to get help with it.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:02 am |
    • JamesK

      FS
      My dictionary defines wisdom as "the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment". Well, I doubt that anyone has any "experience" of God outside of something happening completely in their heads. Nobody then has any actual "knowledge" of God being real, or not. Finally, as far as "good judgment" goes, compared to any other decision that they would make, can any Christian say that they've used good judgement in deciding that God is real? People get cheated all the time because they placed their faith in something that turned out to be an empty promise. How does anyone know that God isn't just an empty promise?

      June 11, 2013 at 10:14 am |
    • Mentos

      Hitler thanked God all the time, Austin. Stop being mentally blind. God inspires both good and bad people; Hitler is proof of that. Own it, and move on. Trying to distance yourself for AH makes you look cowardly as all get out.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:32 am |
    • George

      Mao, Stalin and their ilk killed millions in the name of atheism, what is the point of bringing up God in the lives of Mao, Stalin and their cronies?

      June 11, 2013 at 10:38 am |
    • Pete

      "Mao, Stalin and their ilk killed millions in the name of atheism, what is the point of bringing up God in the lives of Mao, Stalin and their cronies?"

      Oh look another uneducated Christian. The actions of Mao and Stalin were totalitarian. They sought total authority, which means getting rid of religions which would compete with that authority. The pursuit of atheism was not the cause for the bloodshed; it was the pursuit of control over a people.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:40 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @George
      Said leaders did not wave a flag of atheism around which to rally their people.
      While they sought to eliminate traditional religions from their kingdoms, they did so in order to divert the common man’s fervour to their own cults of personality.
      While Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot etc. put themselves into the Godhead position, Hitler publically professed his Christianity until his dying day and used Christian arguments to whip his people into a frenzy. This is why Nazi uniform belt buckles were emblazoned with the slogan “Gott mit uns” (God is with us).
      Pol Pot spent 8 years at a Catholic school in Phnom Penh, Hitler attended a Benedictine Cloister and Stalin passed 5 years at a Russian orthodox seminary. Historians have noted their speaking and writing styles ape those of the Church in being 'declamatory and repet.itive, with liturgical overtones”.
      Each of these leaders wielded their people’s predilection for faith like a weapon. Atheism is not the prime cause for these tragic regimes – the misdirection of faith is.
      Like religion, they demanded blind obedience and obsequious submission from their followers. They tolerated no free-thinkers and enforced dogmatism – things they learned during their religious educations.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:45 am |
    • Mentos

      George, please provide one speech that Stalin and Mao made saying they did anything "in the name of atheism". You can't, you liar. But thanks for lying for God. He's proud on you.
      Pete's right. Keeping trying to trot out bull and domeone will be there to call you out on your lying.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:47 am |
    • The real Tom

      How many names has the idiot "truthbetold" used on here to post the very same drivel over and over about atheism causing the deaths of millions? Why do you have to use a different name "George"? Why do you have to lie? If you can't tell the truth then your point isn't valid.

      You're stupid if you think anyone believes such tripe.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • George

      No one can beat the atheist at 'idiocy'. Read up on political ideologies and atheist leaders before spouting nonsense.

      June 11, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • The real Tom

      "George" aka turd be trolled, why are you using a new name? Afraid you'll be dismissed out of hand if you use your original? It won't matter; your posts are still complete lies and you are a fvcitard. You can't hide that no matter what name you use, you freak.

      June 11, 2013 at 7:19 pm |
  4. The real Tom

    Austintasia says "Don't come to me for some sign."

    Then stop claiming you have seen one, you phony snake-oil salesman. Stop yapping about your "proof" and your "data" unless you can provide your current dream journal so we can all wait and watch for the sign you claim your god will give you.
    You're a liar.

    June 11, 2013 at 8:36 am |
    • Austin

      I wish I could buy you lunch or something. Have a great day. He is faithful.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:58 am |
    • The real Tom

      I wish your family cared enough about you to get you some mental treatment. Have a delusional life.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:01 am |
    • sam stone

      Austin is not only a liar, he is every bit the coward that Gopher is

      June 11, 2013 at 9:49 am |
    • .

      "Austin is not only a liar, he is every bit the coward that Gopher is"

      Include Chad on this list.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:15 am |
    • .

      I'm Chad' stalker, include me in that list.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:40 am |
    • .

      "I'm Chad' stalker, include me in that list."

      Oh, now I've got my own troll, hi Chad don't like being called out that you're a liar and a coward.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:42 am |
  5. Dyslexic doG

    To Christians in this forum who wonder why Atheists post the way we do.

    By your writing and your passion we see that you (with a few exceptions) are intelligent and educated.

    How then can you believe a book that is so patently foolish and so obviously a product of bronze age folk with little or no knowledge of the world and so full of inconsistencies and laughably foolish scenarios and notably misogynistic and brutal and racist and intolerant stories? A book that copies shamelessly from many religions pre-dating it. A book that was written decades or centuries after the characters were said to have existed.

    How then can you believe in a God when there is absolutely ZERO proof of said God's existence? And proof doesn't equal recited lines from the Bible or fancy mystical phrases so often repeated that Christians just recite them now without even thinking how nonsensical they are. I mean real tangible PROOF!

    I am sure that all Atheists enjoy the interplay here but we are all flabbergasted by your belief in this children's fairytale.

    June 11, 2013 at 8:28 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Dyslexic doG,

      The reason people believe is because they have had a personal experience with God. What proof could be more compelling to you? It is one thing for someone to tell you something, it is something much more powerful if you experience it for yourself.

      The bible does contain some history of the human family. Humans are not always nice to each other. If you watch the news sometime, you may find brutality is still around.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:49 am |
    • The real Tom

      Fine with me if you say you believe, Robert. What I object to is people like Austin claiming there is "proof". There isn't. You believe. That's all.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:53 am |
    • Dyslexic doG

      Thanks @Robert.

      I agree that as animals, even as evolved as we are, the human race is capable of bad as well as good. I don't know how that equals God to you.

      As far as your personal experience with God, I am equally confused. Did you see, feel, touch, smell or taste God? What form did the personal experience take?

      June 11, 2013 at 8:54 am |
    • nclaw441

      What proof of God's existence would you require? I get your quibble with some of the contents of the Bible. I have studied it for many years and still have a long way to go just to begin to think I understand. I don't how much of it is literal, especially in the Old Testament.

      But for me, it is Jesus Christ's resurrection from the dead, for which there is ample evidence of many kinds, that "seals the deal" for me. Many of Christ's followers, having the opportunity to have seen Him after resurrection, elected to die cruel deaths rather than renounce their faith. Surely had they believed the resurrection was a hoax they would have avoided the painful deaths they received.

      And the Jews of the day, as well as the Roman government, had a great interest in disproving the resurrection. And it would have been easy to do, since guards had been stationed at the tomb. When word of the resurrection got out, all that had to be done was to retrieve and display the body. But was not done, because it could not be done.

      2000 plus years later and Christianity still thrives, despite the efforts of many to quash it and to disprove it. People much more intelligent than I (and perhaps even you) have lived and died believing.

      I am not sure how much more you would want.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:12 am |
    • nclaw441

      Dyslexic:

      To take another tack: Do you believe that love exists? If not, you are in the vast minority, which is your right. But if you do believe love exists, how would you go about proving it?

      June 11, 2013 at 9:14 am |
    • The real Tom

      Again, nclaw, if you don't have proof, fine. Stop claiming you do and admit that what you have is a belief and faith. It isn't evidence and it isn't proof. I don't have a problem with believers who know they have no proof; it's those like Austin who INSIST they have "data" and "proof" that gall me. Their claims are an insult to anyone who understands the meaning of the word "proof."

      June 11, 2013 at 9:18 am |
    • nclaw441

      Tom, as I asked above, what proof would you consider for the existence of God, who, by all accounts, is not a physical being? What would you accept?

      June 11, 2013 at 9:36 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      NClaw,

      I dont know about him but any reliable evidence will do. None has been presented so far. And NO, the bible doesn't count as evidence.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:39 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Nclaw
      Love is a neurochemical stimulus designed to encourage pair bonding and thus reproduction.
      Early attraction is primariyl linked to the release of dopamine in the brain, which explains the early intensity of attraction.
      Long-term, monogamous love is associated with the chemicals vasopressin and oxytocin. Vasopressin has been found to foster visual recognition of others and feelings of attachment. Oxytocin, which is also released in mothers and infants during childbirth, has been shown to create feelings of attachment as well.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:41 am |
    • Dyslexic doG

      thanks @nclaw441

      Given that the Bible is a collection of stories written by priests and holy men over the last couple of thousand years, I don't know how you can say that the story of Christ and his resurrection proves anything to you about the existence of God? Many facets of the Jesus story are copied from earlier pagan myths and other deities. Who knows whether the resurrection even happened. There is certainly no proof of it.

      I grant you that many people have died for your belief but again, how does that prove anything about the existence of your God?

      see, hear, taste, touch, smell ... anything?

      June 11, 2013 at 9:45 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      nclaw just likes to show up asking the same questions...he has had them answered again and again... He tries the "prove love exists" crap, or dodges and evades, never answers any questions directly.
      Then he disappears for weeks.
      then comes back as if he never existed asking the same crap.
      Why he keeps trying that "does love exist" crap over and over I will never know...that always gets shot down in flames.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:46 am |
    • sam stone

      "The reason people believe is because they have had a personal experience with God."

      The reason people believe is because they have been indoctrinated into it and are having delusions

      It comforts them as opposed to acknowledging their own mortality

      June 11, 2013 at 9:51 am |
    • The real Tom

      "Tom, as I asked above, what proof would you consider for the existence of God, who, by all accounts, is not a physical being? What would you accept?"

      What part of "THERE IS NO PROOF" do you fail to grasp, nclaw? I don't require proof unless some jackazz claims he has some. Then I ask to see it. As long as you aren't claiming there is any and admitting that what you have is not proof but faith, fine. But don't get on here and yap like a little dog about having proof when you don't.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:55 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Dyslexic doG,

      I haven’t seen, touched, smelled or tasted God in any literal way. I have felt the presence of God and feel his presence often. Although, describing the presence of God as a feeling doesn’t even begin to describe it. As an old preacher put it, “it is better felt than telt”. Maybe this will help, think of the most joyous event in your life. Then the most awe inspiring event. Now think of a time in your life when you felt the most at peace, no cares, no worries, no fears, just pure peace. Then think of a time when you were the most thankful. Put all of those together and multiply by 100 and that might give you some idea of the presence of God.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:55 am |
    • Bob

      The bible is actually grossly overstudied. The fact that the veracity of its contents is still in major dispute by sincere parties should itself demonstrate that it isn't the work of a perfect divine entity, who ought to be able to do a better job of getting its message out consistently.

      Also significantly, the basic premise of Christianity re sacrifice and salvation is complete nonsense. Christians, how is it again that your omnipotent being couldn't do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus' death a "sacrifice", when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourself there, and the root premise of your religion is nonsensical.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 11, 2013 at 9:56 am |
    • Bob

      Translation of Robert Brown's post: Robert Brown can't come up with any evidence, so he'll waffle and bafflegab and bother us with his personal experiences instead, none of which are evidence.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:58 am |
    • Pete

      "But for me, it is Jesus Christ's resurrection from the dead, for which there is ample evidence of many kinds, that "seals the deal" for me. Many of Christ's followers, having the opportunity to have seen Him after resurrection, elected to die cruel deaths rather than renounce their faith. Surely had they believed the resurrection was a hoax they would have avoided the painful deaths they received."

      There are other religions that make the same claims doesn't mean it's real.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:00 am |
    • Sue

      great point, Pete.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:06 am |
    • nclaw441

      I appreciate all of the positions taken on this issue,even those positions I disagree with. It does bother me that some in here get so exercized over what someone ELSE believes. If I or Austin or some other person who believes in God post on this site many of the responses are outright hateful. Why would someone who does not believe in God, or who even thinks that what some present as proof of God is total hogwash get so angry over what is posted?

      I really enjoy the arguments, but the name-calling, insults and belittling that some do here I just don't understand. I think those that disagree with me are wrong (otherwise why believe in it?), but my arguments are not bolstered by adding "And you are an SOB, too!"

      It suggests (but doesn't prove, of course) that there is some doubt or something else going on inside.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:17 am |
    • Dave

      "f I or Austin or some other person who believes in God post on this site many of the responses are outright hateful. Why would someone who does not believe in God, or who even thinks that what some present as proof of God is total hogwash get so angry over what is posted? "

      Probably for the same reason that so many Christians get angry and hateful over Muslims or other religions. The one question you should ask yourself is why are YOU reading anger into what is being posted. I am not angry at all, it's actually disgust. You are blind to the hate and intolerance of your own religion that causes divisions within our society.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:24 am |
    • The real Tom

      What prompts me to respond to some posters here is:

      1. Their claims of having "proof" of a god that just happens to agree with them on every topic
      2. Their insistence that they "know" what god is, thinks, wants, and does, and their conviction that the laws of this country should be based on their "understanding" of god and the bible. Often these same people have little education and even less intelligence.
      3. Their smug, sanctimonious posture and negative judgments of others' behavior as being somehow inferior to theirs

      June 11, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • The real Tom

      Or what Dave said.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • Boris

      nclaw, given all the harm that religion has done and continues to do, and the impact it has on lives of both nonbelievers and believers, discussions about it are bound to get heated. Don't act so surprised about that; it isn't credible.

      If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen, wimp.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:28 am |
    • WASP

      @NCLAW: "But if you do believe love exists, how would you go about proving it?"

      love can be quantified not be ameasure of itself, but by analyzing and giving values to how much danger you are willing to place yourself in with the fact known that you may die can be measured. for my son i would ki11 an attacker or die trying because i love him so much, for a stranger like you i would call 911 and observe if i could help. those actions speak louder than words.

      as far as the whole "jesus has risen" thing. riddle me this:
      1) did you see this event happen first hand?
      2) can the source of the event be validated or tested for accuracy?
      3) how does a demi-god die? and yes jesus would classify as a demi-god being born of a mortal woman and a god.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:51 am |
  6. Science

    Martian Clay Contains Chemical Implicated in the Origin of Life,

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130610220132.htm

    Meteorites and water. made us aye.

    June 11, 2013 at 7:23 am |
    • Austin

      not true, I have evidence and proof of God. Tom Tomn knows this might be true but is uwilling...................

      June 11, 2013 at 8:13 am |
    • The real Tom

      Sure you do, Austintasia. You can't even produce your dream journal to provide any evidence that you've ever spoken any truth here at all.

      Have fun being a lying ass all day. It's what you do best.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:15 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      God put those trace chemicals on Mars to confuse us and test our faith, just like with dinosaur bones.
      Man was made from dirt and clay and woman cloned from Adam's rib.
      Don't let Satan lead you astray! Amongst His weapondry are such diverse elements as testable hypothesis, tangible evidence and empirical data.
      Just because a theory has been tested and proven hundreds of times and the results confirmed by multiple, disparate groups of detached scientists doesn't make it true.
      Knowledge doesn't come from observation, making hypotheses, testing them and recording the results for all to scritinize.
      Real knowledge may only come from one of the following sources:
      1) Talking snakes
      2) Talking donkeys
      3) Talking incendiary foliage
      4) Cryptic, personal psychic messages from supernatrual beings
      5) The Bible – but Schlafly's New Conservative Bible because they take out all that pinko, commie stuff (as if Jesus would ever use the word "comrade") and that liberal wordiness that hides God's true message of Capitalism, apple pie and condemning gays.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:15 am |
    • Austin

      Tom Tom, I have experienced proof of God in my life.

      And sin will still run its course on knowledge.. 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: (my words... desire to reject God and be independent in life, which we are not, we are slaves to sin........

      9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11 Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circ.umcised or uncirc.umcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

      12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

      15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with grat.itude in your hearts. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:20 am |
    • Austin

      Tom Tom, this is not how we spread the gospel.........don't come to me for some sign, i never went to Him for one. it happened.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:22 am |
    • Science

      Oops and that carbon – 14 + (U-Pb).............uranium lead dating Austin.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:22 am |
    • Dyslexic doG

      @Doc Vestibule

      "Never argue with an idiot ... they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"

      June 11, 2013 at 8:23 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Heaven and hell are the only eternal realities, the Christians say. We can't observe them, or send probes or sample return missions to them. But they are somehow more "real" than Mars is.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:25 am |
    • Frank

      What experience do you have Austin?

      June 11, 2013 at 8:30 am |
    • Austin

      the fact is , I am observable. and I have data and evidence that is relevant. so if you think you have to go back to old tesament proof you are wrong, God did something modern in my life. Isolated realities are still real, it doesnt have to blanket the world.

      What you know or dont' know, does not change reality.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:30 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Compassion is great, Austin. But if your God spoke to you, in a dream perhaps, one that revealed more of its Word than you've ever known, and told you to drop that compassion nonsense toward unrepentant sinners, would you do that with a glad and willing heart?

      June 11, 2013 at 8:32 am |
    • The real Tom

      Austin, you have nothing whatsoever.

      Stop posing. You're a fraud.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:32 am |
    • Austin

      stop with the trickery hypotheticals...................

      I have proof. There is nowhere or no way to escape this. The only way to avoid this is to lie.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:36 am |
    • The real Tom

      Which is what you're doing, Austin. Lying.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:36 am |
    • Happy Atheist

      "the fact is , I am observable. and I have data and evidence that is relevant."

      ha ha haha ahah haha aha ha haha

      I've read your dead cat sagas and you are a grade A loon or a very good troll who's making up some very funny random garbage, but you are anything but relevant.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:42 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Austin
      Psychic messages from supernatural beings are not proof.
      If I take you at face value, I'd have to suspend disbelief for Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, Mary Baker Eddy, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Marshall Applewhite, and all the other people who have claimed to have received personal Divine Revelations.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:42 am |
    • Frank

      Austin, what is your data and evidence that is relevant?

      June 11, 2013 at 8:42 am |
    • JMEF

      Austin you are a fraud. You may have convinced that addled brain of yours that you are something special, you are not, psychotic is more likely.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:43 am |
    • Science

      E = mc2 too............... fact is a fact and Austin can not deal with the truth.

      What did the scholars say from Iowa Austin................sort of said the bible is BS on the marriage deal between what Austin ?

      June 11, 2013 at 8:45 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Relevant evidence of God as observed by causation in subject Christians:

      In 1979 Al and Carol were newlyweds. They belonged to a church that wanted to expand. Al was successful so they donated money and joined the building committee. When the new church was built, Al became head usher. He and Carol were at every Sunday service. In 1992, James wandered in, his wife had just died after a long battle with cancer. Al said "I've never seen you before. Here, sit with me and you can help usher." James began to usher. He was soon well known and admired by people in the church. He met a nice woman and married again. In 2009 Len found his way to the church. A devastating divorce had left him financially broke and emotionally crippled. James said "Why don't you sit here with me and Al. You can help usher." Len started to usher and soon people began to recognize him as a servant of the church. By this time Al had contracted brain cancer. James and Len would go to visit him and Carol, praying, laughing, just spending time together. Len told Al how grateful he was for the steadfast faith Al had shown way back when the building idea was first germinated. He said."If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't have had a place to go." Since Al died, James and Len go pick up the widow Carol and take her to Sunday services. Usually they go out for a small lunch afterwards. They are looking for another usher.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:25 am |
    • Science

      And look who shows up Billy to funny .................C.E.R.N you have to love it Billy.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:28 am |
    • Dave

      "Tom Tom, I have experienced proof of God in my life."

      No, you labeled things you couldn't explain in your mind as a God but it doesn't mean it was the correct label.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:43 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @BIll Deacon
      That isn't evidence of God.
      It is evidence of human compassion, fostered by a community's shared rituals and beliefs.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:44 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Doc, Close enough for me.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:49 am |
    • Dave

      "Relevant evidence of God as observed by causation in subject Christians:"

      I went down to my local Share homeless sheltered and donated several computers so they could look for work and a place to live. I stopped by every Saturday morning to teach computer classes. Anna, Jennifer and Kodie took my classes faithfully, they learned the Microsoft office suite, and they got well paying full time jobs. Now Anna, Jennifer and Kodie come back to the share homeless shelters to help teach computers and help others transition into a good life. They are looking for more people who have the time to go to other homeless shelters and do the same.

      No God needed.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:50 am |
    • JMEF

      Parables as evidence, how Chad like you are getting Bill. Of course you realize that the same type of story could happen at a temple, mosque, shrine, community center, etc. could it show god works in mysterious ways, sure, but which god, which religion?

      June 11, 2013 at 9:52 am |
    • tallulah13

      That's not proof of god, Bill. It's proof that humans interact.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:56 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Steve was a coke addict. A bad one. One night while he was high, his "friend" ra ped his fourteen year old daughter. Steve was crushed and wanted to kill Jessie. Instead he went on a retreat someone invited him to. He witnessed the stations of cross and by the next retreat, he was on the team portraying Jesus in the passion play. He got sober from drugs and started taking his wife and family to church. He even found a way to forgive Jessie and invited him to a retreat. Jessie said no. Six months later, he was killed in a drug deal gone bad. Steve is still sober and married.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:01 am |
    • sam stone

      austin has proof, gopher has proof. interestingly, neither of them have the test-it-cu-lar fort-it-ude to provide it. they are liars and they are cowards.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:03 am |
    • Pete

      Bill anyone can over come something when they have help and support from others, it's not proof your religion is true. Human beings are social creatures which is why we do better when we are in packs. Not all packs are good but we create these packs to help and support each other. That in no way means it's proof of a God.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:05 am |
    • tallulah13

      @ Bill:

      Bilbo found a ring of great power. He kept it with him and it started to corrupt him. Gandalf convinced him to give it to his nephew Frodo. Frodo was brave and honest. He and his friends took the ring on an arduous journey and after many sacrifices the ring was destroyed and the world was saved.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:08 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Tim had a rough life. Alcoholic father, he became and alcoholic himself. He credits God and a willingness to surrender for his lengthy sobriety. But it was his daughter's threat to keep him from seeing his grandkids that motivated that choice. He was asked to give a talk on forgiveness and the value of confession. A staunch Catholic, family was his main priority and of course he believes in the sanctiity of life. After the talk, his son-in-law dropped a bombshell. While dating Tim's daughter, they had gotten pregnant and decided to have an abortion. The crowd was stunned by the public confession. As tears rolled down Matt's face Tim stood up, walked over to him and said "Matt, my son, I love you and I forgive you." They embraced. They're taking four year old Alex fishing Saturday.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:14 am |
    • The real Tom

      Tim had a rough life....blah, blah, blah.

      Do you really think posting plagiarized testimonials and fables written by others will convince anyone, DillDoe, when they see the sort of vitriol you write yourself in the name of your god? You and people like Austin and HS do more to drive sane people away from any sort of belief than any atheist ever could. Why would anyone want to be like you?

      June 11, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • Pete

      "Tim had a rough life. Alcoholic father, he became and alcoholic himself. He credits God and a willingness to surrender for his lengthy sobriety. But it was his daughter's threat to keep him from seeing his grandkids that motivated that choice."

      Yup being excommunicated from your pack can motivate people to change but it's still not proof of your god. It's proof that human beings do better when they belong to a good pack and they have support from family and friends. Atheists cause the same change in people when we tell them the truth about their drinking and help them to stop drinking. I have a friend who has been sober now for 10 years because she has the love and support of her family and friends.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:19 am |
    • JMEF

      Bill was a self confessed murderer who sought forgiveness and redemption. He found this crutch in the confessional of the RCC and the delusion of a loving god is still his crutch. Now Bill has become a pompous, arrogant, know it all aszhole that cannot mind his own business. Seem familiar BD.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:23 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Bill
      I am an addict who gave up drugs and turned my life around without religion or gods.
      It took determination, relocation and the support of my family.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:29 am |
    • sam stone

      Bill is a confessed murderer?

      June 11, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • WASP

      @austin: "the fact is , I am observable. and I have data and evidence that is relevant. so if you think you have to go back to old tesament proof you are wrong, God did something modern in my life."

      so you can be tested to prove "god"? works for me.
      we will even use your bible verses to give you ground work to build off of.
      simple just do as elijah in 1 KINGS 18:36.
      "36And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that you are God in Israel, and that I am your servant, and that I have done all these things at your word. 37Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that you are the LORD God, and that you have turned their heart back again. 38Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench. "

      NOW i'm certain your value to your god is equal to that of elijah, correct? thus your god should happily repeat this very test seeing he is all powerful, correct?
      so let's test it.

      June 11, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • JMEF

      Yes Sam. April 29, 2013, religion ...becomes evil...page 31...faith @ 9:54...reply by Bill @ 10:47....
      Bill "Me a murderer? The truth is yes. "
      Check it out Sam it is there.

      June 11, 2013 at 11:09 am |
    • JMEF

      Sam story first posted April 28 to find the topic, religion...becomes evil.

      June 11, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • Happy Atheist

      I'm a bit confused by Bill Deacons stories. He seems to be presenting them as some anecdotal evidence for God and yet never shows how any of those people were helped by God but every single one was helped by another human that had empathy for them. Has anyone ever gone through a divorce to be happily remarried that wasn't religious? Yes. Has anyone ever battled a harmful addiction and won without God? Yes. Both of those I personally can attest to. So i'm not sure how God fit's into Bills picture at all since God never lifts a finger in his stories, just lot's of well meaning people showing compassion for others. Sure they seem to do it at a location he calls a Church, but isn't that a bit like the story of Stone soup? Sure the stone was the first ingredient but it added nothing to the soup other than to be a gathering point for the real flavor of life which are empathetic humans, not some mysterious spirit hiding behind the veil of another dimension.

      June 11, 2013 at 11:42 am |
    • sam stone

      austin claims over and over that he has proof of god, but supplies NONE. he is a coward, and a liar. have another drink, boy

      June 11, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
  7. Frank

    What do you all think about this site:

    http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/

    June 11, 2013 at 6:35 am |
    • sam stone

      delusional nonsense

      June 11, 2013 at 7:51 am |
    • Frank

      How so?

      June 11, 2013 at 8:02 am |
    • The real Tom

      It's ridiculous. There is NO proof a god exists, no matter what silly semantic or logical arguments you pose, Frank. Or should we call you Chad?

      June 11, 2013 at 8:09 am |
    • Primewonk

      It's a nutter site. In science we don't prove things, we explain things. And science only deals with the natural. Your god claims to be supernatural. Get your god to agree to exist only in the natural realm, then we'll talk.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:11 am |
    • Frank

      I’m not Chad. I do believe in God but I never thought there would be proof that He exists.

      I was just looking for an explanation why what they’re saying on that site to be invalid.

      Why are you angry with me?

      June 11, 2013 at 8:13 am |
    • The real Tom

      Not angry. Just laughing at anyone who thinks one can find proof of god on the web.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:16 am |
    • Frank

      What specifically throughout the sequence of panels did you find it to be invalid.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:24 am |
    • Austin

      Tom ,

      I have proof and you know I have told you this, and the truth is, you have no clue if i am right or wromg. but your assertion that i am lying and making this up,......................is wishfut thinking.

      I have not lied. nor made ANYTHING UP. I HAVE PROOF OF GOD.

      John 15:26-27
      26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

      God's promises are kept. He is risen.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:26 am |
    • Austin

      Frank, the tone here you are getting is just a daily reality. nothing personal. Tom and Sam, great people, like to get "in to it"

      June 11, 2013 at 8:28 am |
    • You are Wromg.

      ...

      June 11, 2013 at 8:28 am |
    • Happy Atheist

      @Frank – I did your silly panels and i'm still waiting for the proof.

      The moronic circular logic goes like this:

      If absolute truth exists and universal logic exists, then poof! God must exist! What more proof do you need? It's like saying that because LARP'rs exist (Live Action Role Playing) then that proves that Sauron and Gandalf also exist. As you can see, you cannot prove they do not, therefore, by your logic, they must exist.

      Let's be frank, your reasoning skills leave much to be desired.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:37 am |
    • The real Tom

      There is no "proof" of any such thing.

      A god who wanted to choose someone to broadcast truth wouldn't pick you to do it, Austin, if you were the last being in the universe. You're a nut-case who should be treated for mental illness and possibly hospitalized.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:39 am |
    • Frank

      Happy Atheist,
      That wasn’t my site. I was just looking for the atheistic viewpoint.

      June 11, 2013 at 8:45 am |
    • Happy Atheist

      "True wisdom comes to each of us when we realize how little we understand about life, ourselves, and the world around us." Socrates

      There is no room for absolutes when you realize just how little we actually know about the universe compared to what there is to know about the universe.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:05 am |
    • nclaw441

      The existence of God is not a matter of proof; it is a matter of faith. We should not even attempt to try and prove God's existence. And I am ok with that. I am convinced of God's existence, but not based upon scientifically acceptable proof. There are lots of things I believe exist that cannot be proven, some of which even atheists would agree on. Compassion, courage, understanding, intelligence, love. Their existence is nearly universally accepted, but scientific proof is lacking. How would you prove the existence of intelligence, for example?

      June 11, 2013 at 9:44 am |
    • Frank

      What are you trying to say in that post True Atheist?

      June 11, 2013 at 9:49 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Wisdom is the principal thing; Therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting, get understanding. Proverbs 4: 7

      June 11, 2013 at 9:51 am |
    • Pete

      "http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/"

      Got to love this part from the site. " I am a member of the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church in Canada. I have had no formal training in apologetics (defense of the faith), but have studied presuppositional apologetics from many resources."

      If a person tried to use those credentials in science they would laughed at and shown the door.

      June 11, 2013 at 9:56 am |
    • tallulah13

      The site will not address any answers it does not wish to acknowledge. I went around in circles because my answers did not go in the direction the author wished. This tells me that the author does not have proof, only inflexible rhetoric.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:05 am |
    • sam stone

      If it is "proof", Frankie, submit it for critical review

      June 11, 2013 at 10:06 am |
    • sam stone

      From a drunk to a True Believer. De-evolution in process with cat-dreamer austin

      June 11, 2013 at 10:08 am |
    • Frank

      sam stone,
      I said it wasn’t my site. No need for name calling.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:08 am |
    • sam stone

      frank: if you are looking for an atheistic view, go to "the atheist experience" on youtube, if you have the courage

      June 11, 2013 at 10:10 am |
    • sam stone

      frank: i was referring to the site as delusional nonsense, not as you being delusional. austin, on the other hand, is a world class loon

      June 11, 2013 at 10:11 am |
    • Frank

      Oh, I got the courage. I’ll go to that site.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • sam stone

      "The existence of God is not a matter of proof; it is a matter of faith."

      Perhaps you can get this through to austin, gopher and chard

      June 11, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • ME II

      I think the site is sophistry and rhetoric. It equivocates between moral "truth" and knowledge "truth".

      Are there absolute objective moral truths? I don't think so.
      Is that known to be absolutely true? I think so, yes.

      June 11, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • ME II

      @Frank,
      Your link is essentially a TAG argument.

      "The chief criticism of all formulations of the TAG revolve around its premise that "without a god, knowledge cannot exist". While acceptance of this premise can lead to the conclusion that a god must exist, the argument itself provides no demonstrated necessity to accept the premise."
      (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_argument_for_the_existence_of_God)

      June 11, 2013 at 10:50 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      The site is pointless. 4 buttons to run in a circle with...a waste of prgramming.

      June 11, 2013 at 11:25 am |
    • Happy Atheist

      "What are you trying to say in that post True Atheist?"

      What I am saying is that yes, there is absolute truth in the universe, but based on the tiny percent of what we believe to be truth, to claim absolute truth is absurd. It's like saying you are a math professor because you read the cover of a calculus book.

      June 11, 2013 at 11:49 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Then you're name is wrong. It should be "Contented Deist"

      June 11, 2013 at 11:53 am |
    • Happy Atheist

      No. Just because I am not a math professor doesn't mean I don't believe in the concept. Just because i'm unwilling to say what humans define as God's are impossible does not make them probable.

      June 11, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Don't you just love it when people like Chard and DillDoe try to tell you what you "should" do?

      June 11, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I'm just going by the definition of the word. Are you telling me all atheists should admit the concept of God is valid, if unproven? I suspect some of your brethren might feel differently.

      June 11, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • Dwayne

      Dull Beacon will go on all day turning your words around and asking you questions to avoid himself having to answer for his own crazy beliefs. Turn the tables. Ask him some questions.

      Such as, why should we believe that your particular god is the one to believe in, of the thousands of gods that man has postulated with myriad different characteristics.

      June 11, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • Dwayne

      Dull Beacon will go on all day turning your words around and asking you questions to avoid himself having to answer for his own crazy beliefs. Turn the tables. Ask him some questions.

      Such as:, why should we believe that your particular god is the one to believe in, of the thousands of gods that man has postulated with myriad different characteristics?

      June 11, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Bill

      I think you're missing the point. Any atheist who truly understands that there is no way to technically disprove "god" in the sense that you've given him the attribute of somehow being able to exist outside this universe and still have an effect on it, the idea is valid insofar as any idea of any make-believe creature is valid.

      June 11, 2013 at 12:27 pm |
    • Happy Atheist

      "Are you telling me all atheists should admit the concept of God is valid, if unproven?"

      No. I am saying that the concept of no-God is valid and is the most logical answer in the absence of evidence to the contrary, and I will continue to research what science has shown us about the universe while patiently waiting on the religious to prove their God theory.

      My personal belief is that every God that has ever been worshiped was invented by man which is why every single God ever envisioned carried in it some human trait, whether it be the white beard of wisdom on some versions of the Hebrew god, or the baby in the manger, or multi-armed Lord Ganesh or any of the egyptian God's having the bodies of men but the heads of animals. Humans are social animals and we like being picked first for teams, it makes us feel wanted and needed. Religions are the captains of a social sports team with many many insecure humans wanting to be wanted, needing to be needed, and religion gives them that which is why it's been so appealing to billions. And if you don't feel like you are getting preferential treatment at your religion of choice, well you can just pick anhother one that will tell you what you want to hear. Everything is okay, God loves you, you are special, God cares about you and wants a personal relationship with you, isn't that amazing? And yet you hear this same line at every single Church the world over. Can God really be in all Churches and demand different rituals on pain of heIIfire if the rituals are not performed accurately or often enough? Really? The congolmerate that is organized religion is a farce and for anyone to attribute true spirituallity to any of them is laughable.

      June 11, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • CK

      Also, what happened to rufus t firefly?

      June 11, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Firefly found Serenity.

      June 11, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
  8. GOOD NEWS

    Man made all imaginary gods,

    GOD made all real humans!

    http://www.holy-19-harvest.com
    UNIVERSAL MAGNIFICENT MIRACLES

    June 11, 2013 at 5:09 am |
    • sam stone

      man made ALL gods. there is no heaven or hell

      June 11, 2013 at 6:18 am |
    • JamesK

      Can you demonstrate how your God is any more real than the others?

      June 11, 2013 at 11:11 am |
  9. Dingus Kahn

    Useless school officials are a dime a dozen. Let's fire these idiots and get some different people running that show.

    June 11, 2013 at 2:33 am |
    • The real Tom

      Hmm. "Let's fire them." Who HIRED them in the first place? I love it when people behave as though "bad teachers" and "dumb administrators" just sprang from the head of Zeus or popped up out of nowhere like mushrooms after rain. The same people who hired these administrators, or others just like them, will be hiring their replacements. Why are "bad teachers" and "dumb administrators" hired in the first place?

      June 11, 2013 at 8:03 am |
  10. faith

    I ha ve no answer to what is happening in the world, I take refuge in the opium that is religion. May it make my soul ephemeral as the wispy cloud .

    June 11, 2013 at 12:21 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      God is a substance. But opium will do almost as well.

      June 11, 2013 at 12:55 am |
  11. Reality

    Dear Christian Valedictorians Across the Globe,

    Saving Christians from the Infamous Resurrection Con/

    From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15: 14, Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

    Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

    To wit;

    From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:

    "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
    Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

    Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

    Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

    The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

    Only Luke records it. (Luke mentions it in his gospel and Acts, i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically untenable). The Ascension ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers.

    The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

    "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
    http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

    The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

    With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

    An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,

    p.4

    "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

    p.168. by Ted Peters:

    Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

    So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.
    ==================================================================================

    June 10, 2013 at 11:21 pm |
    • Beth

      Thanks Reality. Maybe a few of the kids (the smarter ones) will read and understand what you said, and put aside their silly Christian delusions.

      June 10, 2013 at 11:26 pm |
  12. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    John Prine:

    Father forgive us for what we must do
    You forgive us we'll forgive you
    We'll forgive each other till we both turn blue
    Then we'll whistle and go fishing in heaven.
    John Prine

    June 10, 2013 at 11:05 pm |
    • sam stone

      Great song

      June 11, 2013 at 6:20 am |
  13. faith

    i'll be fishing, eating up a storm, hanging with my friends and family, chillin at the barbie, inventin stuff, reading the best books, watching videos, surfing, skiing, workin out, weight liftin w/o back pain, talkin with jesus and dad, running thru the universe, flying thru the universe, playing the electric guitar, learnin the drums, playin full contact elite football 4 the unfathomable shooting stars of 7th heaven (we will b # 1 in the entire universe-promise) riding big white chargers, discovering new science, lovin my main squeeze, singing, shouting, skippin down the rings of saturn

    no answers
    "When you're in heaven.. just think – you'll never stop worshiping because that's what you want.

    An eternity, with no moment spared because you love god so much that you'll never die starving while worshiping. You'll neve want to go and read that materialistic book that you didn't finish off when you were alive. You won't get any sports. You won't be driving that heaven's new model car. Or that next generation Ipad Heaven version 4.

    Just think of the endless "job" of worshiping. You couldn't wait to get into heaven so that you can say to yourself – > "This is what I have always dreamt about – and I here I am, worshiping; all the time."

    June 10, 2013 at 9:54 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Why invent stuff? Isn't your god supposed to be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent – what would it need that it hadn't created in the billions of years it took for evolution to produce the "chosen ones"?

      June 10, 2013 at 10:01 pm |
    • faith

      it will be much like right here but the weather will be unimaginably good-the most beautiful light summer breezes, azure skies, sunsets with colors never seen b4, hugs and kisses of my pals and loved ones i miss so much i can't wait 4 heaven. beauty, indescribable. beauty i'd always missed b4. sweet shade trees and perfectly pure crystal clean lakes of water and waterfalls with the most exquisite creatures in full living and loving vibrant breathing pulsating soft color. every plant and animal shinning forth in brilliance radiating warmth and life and love and tenderness and piercing blue black evening with bursts of diamonds lighting the canopy of heaven's glory too beautiful to move or speak or think. mesmerizing prisms of variations of brightest purest white light never dreamed of and music so beautiful u join it and drift to kingdoms of wonder and delight you know you are dreaming but the tear in your eye is wet and you recall this is just your first day and you are absorbing what could not possibly exist and here it is 4ever GLORY IN THE HIGHEST

      June 10, 2013 at 10:10 pm |
    • Tam

      Prove it, filch.

      June 10, 2013 at 10:10 pm |
    • faith

      he is the god of nothing
      if that is all that u can c

      "In Santa we trust
      Why invent stuff? Isn't your god supposed to be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent – what would it need that it hadn't created in the billions of years it took for evolution to produce the "chosen ones"?

      he is the god of everything
      he's inside u and me

      ian anderson

      June 10, 2013 at 10:16 pm |
    • faith

      Tam
      Prove it, filch.

      sorry

      June 10, 2013 at 10:18 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      faith, but you have no proof of that.

      June 10, 2013 at 10:24 pm |
    • Tam

      Imagination is good. If you're 8. Which, judging from your writing, you are, filch.

      June 10, 2013 at 10:45 pm |
    • STFU

      never trust anyone with name like "faith"

      June 10, 2013 at 10:54 pm |
  14. get to know your religion

    take a good look from a rational perspective:

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_historical_existence_of_Jesus_Christ

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Why_Won%27t_God_Heal_Amputees

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Failed_biblical_prophecies

    June 10, 2013 at 9:28 pm |
  15. Shiloh

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSj31u3urvs&feature=player_detailpage

    .

    June 10, 2013 at 8:35 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      Liberating::

      The Athiest's Prayer

      Our Father who art likely a psychological figment of our imagination based on our biological fathers,
      Who art likely in residence in the same part of the brain that produces the god concept,
      Hallowed be my capacity to reason all of this out and the courage to accept it.

      Thy kingdom is not really tempting for me, so don't let it come. (I mean, I just spent a month with my family… I couldn't imagine an eternity.)
      Thy will is really inconsequential to me, because statistically speaking those things we classify as your will are really no different than things we classify the will of a magical bunny whether that be on earth or in my imagination.

      You can give the daily bread to those too lazy or too unfortunate to get it themselves. Besides, I'm kind of doing a gluten-free thing now. I'm not religious about it or anything, but honestly, we can all do with a little less bread and a little more veggies.

      You don't need to bother with forgiving my debts because as an adult, I assume full and sole responsibility for my debts—financial or otherwise.

      As far as me forgiving my debtors, it kind of depends on who it is. For example, I may forgive my brother's debt to me, but I'm certainly not going to forgive BP for that disastrous oil spill. You really need some common sense when applying forgiveness. It's not so black and white as you portray things to be.

      About temptation, I don't do anything that I don't want to do. Life is full of temptations, and I enjoy most of them.

      Deliver us from evil? That almost made milk come out of my nose. Since the time of your original prayer, you've had 2000 years to get this right. On the whole, things have gotten much worse. Good news though for you, humans are making great strides in understanding "the evil gene." In the not too distant future, we could find ourselves mostly evil free. But you tried, so… Good on ya!

      I try not to trespass, so I hope you'll forgive my reasoning self its dalliances in your region of my brain. Though again, if someone is trespassing in my house, I'm going to be too busy protecting my family to be thinking about forgiveness. Like I said above, common sense.

      In sum, you keep your kingdom, I'll keep mine.

      June 10, 2013 at 9:33 pm |
    • Athy

      nemA

      June 10, 2013 at 10:28 pm |
    • Answer

      The abused children of our society. Pity.

      June 10, 2013 at 10:59 pm |
    • Answer

      Remember now kiddies.. those that grow up and out of your religion "tomorrow" – you'll have video evidence that they weren't real 'christians.'

      Those lovely videos that you kindly promote today are the evidence of your stupidity for "tomorrow."

      June 10, 2013 at 11:02 pm |
  16. faith

    I been bulls itting you guys. I don't believe in what i said anyway.

    June 10, 2013 at 8:25 pm |
    • .

      Good. Now it's unanimous.

      June 10, 2013 at 10:31 pm |
    • Sirius

      " . " : plus one!

      June 10, 2013 at 11:16 pm |
  17. Science

    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    June 10, 2013 at 7:22 pm |
    • Tam

      Well said.

      June 10, 2013 at 7:28 pm |
  18. Science

    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    June 10, 2013 at 7:21 pm |
  19. Science

    The evolution deal again ...............no god(s) needed .............fossils !

    Bone Tumor in 120,000-Year-Old Neandertal Discovered

    June 7, 2013 — The first-known definitive case of a benign bone tumor has been discovered in the rib of a young Neandertal who lived about 120,000 years ago in what is now present-day Croatia. The bone fragment, which comes from the famous archaeological cave site of Krapina, contains by far the earliest bone tumor ever identified in the archaeological record.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130605190144.htm

    June 10, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
    • Praise.God.4.Evolution

      That article was written by a Christian!

      June 10, 2013 at 7:05 pm |
    • Science

      So..................the age of the bones no fairy needed...................just the green slime .

      June 10, 2013 at 7:10 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      I don't understand why evolution is so threatening. And knowing the atoms in my body came from stars that exploded gives me the feeling of connection to the universe.

      June 10, 2013 at 7:14 pm |
    • TRT

      Somebody said we evolved from monkeys after thousands and thousands of years. Uh, monkeys only live to be about 40, how is that possible?

      June 10, 2013 at 7:19 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      200,000 years ago the average human lifespan was 20 years. Yet we're still here, although we did almost die out. Evolution is based on small changes over hundreds of thousands of years. Any change that gives an advantage to the offspring is more likely to be passed on. We're talking 100s generations here, not lifespans.

      June 10, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
    • Science

      Fake science poster above has lost it ?

      June 10, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      That's the famous and undisputed argument from dots.

      June 10, 2013 at 7:28 pm |
    • Science

      Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Just a way for dot to evolve maybe ?

      June 10, 2013 at 7:41 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      You may be onto something there. It possibly came from the argument from italics.

      June 10, 2013 at 7:46 pm |
    • Tam

      Argument fron italics. Lol!

      June 10, 2013 at 8:18 pm |
  20. Def Mad

    😡

    June 10, 2013 at 6:44 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.