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June 11th, 2013
01:35 PM ET
Pope Francis: `Gay lobby' exists inside VaticanBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - Pope Francis said a “gay lobby” exists inside the Vatican, a surprising disclosure from a pope who has already delivered his share of stunners, and a resurrection of church conflicts that had bedeviled his predecessor's papacy. “In the Curia,” Francis said, referring to Catholicism’s central bureaucracy, “there are holy people. But there is also a stream of corruption.” “The 'gay lobby' is mentioned, and it is true, it is there,” Francis continued. “We need to see what we can do.” READ MORE: The pope said what? Six stunners from Francis Hints that the Holy See contained a network of gay clergy surfaced last year in reports about a series of embarrassing leaks to Italian journalists. The "Vatileaks" scandal factored in Pope Emeritus Benedict XIV's shocking decision to resign earlier this year, according to some church experts, as it impressed upon the 86-year-old pontiff that the modern papacy requires a vigorous and watchful presence. Francis' enigmatic comments came during a meeting Sunday with CLAR, the Latin American and Caribbean Confederation of Religious Men and Women, who head Catholic communities of priests, sisters and monks. The Chilean website Reflection and Liberation, which focuses on Catholic theology, first reported Francis’ remarks. The Catholic blog Rorate Caeli translated the report into English. A Vatican spokesman told CNN, "The Holy See Press Office has no official comment on the private meeting." Gay and lesbian Catholic groups did not immediately respond to requests for comment. The Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests said, "structure, not sexuality, is the real issue." "The church is a monarchy. Monarchs are unaccountable. So many monarchs are corrupt. This is true in both secular and religious institutions," SNAP said in a statement. Other Catholics counseled caution about reading too much into the pope's remarks. "We don't have any explanation of what 'gay lobby' means," said Rocco Palmo, a Vatican watcher who runs Whispers in the Loggia, a website on Catholic news and church politics. "Naturally, some in the church will try to polarize or interpret this, but as the rest of us aren't pope, we still have to get further explanation," Palmo added. Church experts say the Chilean report rings true since the wide-ranging conversation centers on concerns that Francis has made touchstones of his nascent papacy. In contrast to the buttoned-up Benedict, Francis has earned an early reputation for speaking off the cuff, often ditching prepared remarks in favor of more informal conversations. On Friday, Francis nixed his “boring” speech and instead took questions from young Catholic students. Asked by a little girl if he wanted to be pope, Francis laughed and said that only someone who “doesn’t love himself” would want the position. Last month, the pope sparked a worldwide debate by suggesting that atheists might be able to earn a spot in heaven. "He has said some things that would turn Benedict whiter than the papal vestments," Palmo joked. Francis told the Catholic leaders on Sunday to focus on the poor, that the Vatican must be reformed, and joked that whoever wagered on his long-shot election as pope “won a lot, of course.” But his comments on the "gay lobby" are likely to gain the most attention, especially in the West, where Catholic leaders have been mounting a fierce fight against same-sex marriage. After Benedict announced his resignation in February, reports circulated that a “gay lobby” had forced his hand. Cardinals appointed by the former pope to find the source of the leaks investigated high-level Vatican clergy involved in homosexual affairs who might have been vulnerable to blackmail, according to La Repubblica, a leading Italian newspaper. La Repubblica reported that the cardinals found evidence of a “gay lobby” within the Vatican but gave few details about it. "Some high level clergy are exposed to the `external influence' – what we would call blackmail – of lay people to whom they are connected through ties of a `worldly nature,'" La Repubblica wrote. The Vatican blasted the newspaper reports as “unverified, unverifiable and completely false.” Francis is one of the few Catholic leaders to have seen the Vatican report. The so-called Vatileaks scandal led to Benedict's butler, Paolo Gabriele, being convicted on charges last year of leaking private papers from the the pope's private office. He was sentenced to 18 months in prison. 'Gay lobby' behind pope's resignation? Not likely John Allen, CNN’s senior Vatican analyst, has said it would have been odd if the Vatican report had not considered the possibility that "insiders leading a double life," including sexually active clergy, might be vulnerable to pressure to betray the pope. “It seems a stretch, however, to suggest this is the real reason," behind Benedict's resignation, Allen said. In one of his first actions as pope, Francis created a council of eight cardinals, including Cardinal Sean O'Malley of Boston, to offer suggestions on reforming the Vatican. “The reform of the Roman Curia is something that almost all Cardinals asked for in the congregations preceding the Conclave,” Francis said, referring to the meetings that led up to his election in March. “I also asked for it.” But Francis said that he cannot promote the reform himself. “I am very disorganized,” he said, adding, “I have never been good at this.” Instead, the pope said, he is relying on his eight appointed cardinals to move the reforms forward. CNN's Richard Greene contributed to this report.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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For Christians please read this:
If you as a father or mother has to choose one of the below two choices, please tell me which one you will choose:
1-all your kids are to die.
Or
2-You'll be beaten to death.
Normally and logically all of you will choose the second one.
Why that choice? Because dying for one time is better than dying every day.
Those who lost their kids are dying every day to the rest of their life.
Also Those who are sick with dangerous diseases are dying every day.
Those who lost their wives or husbands or beloveds are dying every day.
And too many others are suffering and dying every hour because of the pain of the soul not the body.
Actually the suffering body is nothing comparing with the suffering soul.
Actually That concept destroying your faith from the base……………how?
We can ask for how many hours the Christ suffered? Two hours? three hours? ten hours?
Actually If he was sick for many years, or if he lost his family or if he lost much of his beloveds and dears or if he passed all these things then we can say that he suffered for the human kind.
But suffering by beaten for few hours for all the human kind for all the time a little child can not believe it.
That is why you can find too much atheists in your sociaty because what they found in Christianity is against the logic and the brain.
If the forgiveness is by beaten, then what a cheap price for forgiveness.
jesus died for his own sins, not mine.
Jesus witnessed his followers killed not only did Jesus suffer mortal wounds he also suffered humilliation. Why do you want to see someone suffer for an eternity before you can believe them.
other people in history, some at the hands of christians (inquisition, witch tirals, etc.) have suffered much more than jesus. he's not so special. lots of people got crucified.
"Actually the suffering body is nothing comparing with the suffering soul."
This is a lot like saying "Actually the suffering from poison ivy is nothing compared to the suffering of girl cooties."
is your belief that this applies strictly to christianity, or to all religions?
^^ LOL! ^^
Wow. What a sick, messed-up bunch of drivel. Whomever you are, you need help. Your reality is skewed.
@Phazon – Jesus didn't suffer much. He played dead for three days then got whisked up to heaven. What kind of sacrifice is that? A bad weekend?
sam, Jesus was busy teaching prisoners His truth before He ascended into heaven.
Not much of a sacrifice.
sam, as if you ever did anything. LOL
Yeah, but there's no book about ME pretending to nap for three days, setting down a bunch of idiot, archaic laws.
sam, I'm well aware that your sinful nature wants chaos to rule supreme so you can continue sinning.
1 Timothy 1:9-10
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For w.horemongers, for them that d.efile themselves with mankind, for men.stealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; KJV
Amen.
I can't wait to see and hear the reaction of Southern Baptists and their ilk in a few years when the RCC starts to marry gays.
Well the way things are going in this fast-moving world, Nestor, don't be surprised if they start doing the same!
Finally a moral pope who will hopefully clean up the mess.
I think you read too much into the article. But you probably needed a pacifier.
I'm with Alex.
In the RCC any progress is a good thing – And this is progress.
I'm with Alias. Intimately.
I'm with Alex.
Pope is a good guy. He can't ask God if Gays should be allowed to get married, because there's too many other important questions to ask. God and the Pope have conversations only like once a day because they are both busy. So many questions. We have to decide the issue ourselves.
You're joking, right? How can an omnipotent being be too busy? Oh, right, you're talking about the Christian "god"...
The Church and religion is so bogus. People need to believe in God, Jesus, and other fairy tales, only because they fear the hereafter. From a young age, children are brainwashed to believe in the Church, they grow up and it is passed on to the next generation. The Church is a business. With employees and all the things that go along with being a business, except... they do not pay taxes. What a scam.
Not quite. I can see how if you didn't have a clue that Jesus is God ,and did rise again, that you might go this route.
But God has put His spirit among the life of mankind at times.
He has interviened.
From the beginning, the remnant of God's vehicle of men have had a covenant, backed by God. This has established God as the focal point of church/salvation , government, and marriage. These have been the three areas, from the beginning, that God ordains as an intended, or allowed arrangement. God has kept us in the loop.
Austin, is that me?
have another drink, austin
To cleanse the Church we must admit it is dirty. Let us pray for the Holy Spirit to strengthen Pope Francis' resolve to unite us under Jesus Christ's sacrifice for Francis is truly up against forces beyond our comprehension.
pretty sure that's the KKK salute.
Florida Tom – I agree with you except for saying "the CHURCH is dirty" it's not. Some of the people IN IT are.
That's like saying ALL America is tainted, dishonest, inhuman and dirty just because Obama, most of his administration and some of the Liberals are!
Our Faith is UNCHANGED. "The gates of Hell will not prevail against it." So said Jesus. Peace friend.
The lobby in my building is gay too. Break room with the coffee pot if mostly straight though.
Holly Father, now the names, please!
Jesus wasn't married. Does that mean he was gay?
These here are his reps, not gods (the small letter is intentional!)!
tan, long hair, 6-pack abs, hung out with 12 dudes, never got with a woman....
bingo!
Booty – you WILL regret your blasphemy against the Son Of God about 2 minutes after you die. Be careful, friend.
I was in a bar called "The Gay Lobby" one time. There was no salad bar there. I got mad at Procter.
Next time just try the Blue Oyster Club.
Lions, tigers and bears (and gays) !! Oh My !!!!!
Love it. Sums up the whole thing in a single sentence. And from the Wizard of Oz, too.
You forgot to mention mental disorder. "Gay"
Once again, AtheistsFools shows it is devoid of facts.
Catholics know that gays are people too.
Dirty, shameful, sinful, deceitful, unnatural people bound for eternal damnation as a result of their ungodly and atrocious lifestyle choices – but still God's children and thus deserving of compassion.
An by compassion they mean condemnation and crippling guilt.
Have you ever seen an atheist with compassion?
AtheistFools. Have you ever met an Atheist??
@AtheistsFools – have you ever been anything other than a troll?
yes, lots. if you haven't, you're not looking. for instance, check out non-believer bill gates. his foundation is about to wipe out polio world-wide. there were only 250 cases around the world last year. so this non-believer has saved literally millions of lives and counting. if you want more local atheists doing good work, check out your local humanist community.
God's compassion is eternal suffering in a fiery hell. What an azzhole.
Unfortunately too many, Haven't seen one with compassion or tolerance yet.
I've met more compassionate atheists and agnostics than I have religious folk.
Atheists donate to charities to help the homeless, comfort suicidal teens, feed the hungry.
Religious folk give to their church which protects pedophiles and build fancy new churches. But doesn't do squat for the underclass.
We understand we can't expect much from a troll (AtheistsFools).
@atheistsfools – boring troll. Fuck off.
The only reason Bill Gates is making donations is to avoid income taxes, so he can reclaim a large part of it at the end of the year. No compassion there, sorry you failed.
wrong, moron. the 2 biggest contributors to charity in history have been non-believers, bill gates and warrne buffet. i know, christians don't like facts.
and you talk a lot of cr@p for a group that offers a bowl of soup - at the price of a sermon. maybe you should try helping out of the goodness of your heart, like non-believers do, instead of because you're just trying to recruit new cult members.
Your whole religion is as real as santa claus and the easter bunny. Dont believe me? Google search the Egyption god Horus. You are a disgusting person and no more civilized than the nomadic goat herders who wrote your fairy tale bible 2000 years ago. I am a straight married man and i believe in civil and equal rights. Religion made you this way, but there is hope for you. Start by realizing youve been brainwashed by this non sense.
Claim: "christians don't like facts"
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
Are you trying to tell us or making us to believe that Bill Gates is not getting a part of his donation from the income taxes? You must be dreaming.
does bill pay income tax? get tax write offs? sure. what your point? so does everyone else. it doesn't take away from the fact that a non-believer has given more money to charity than any christian on earth, not to mention the time and effort he puts into curing disease and making life possible in 3rd world nations. but i don't expect you to give credit where it's due - you're christian.
AtheistsFools not only pretends tax decisions are only a concern for the wealthy, but that it can somehow read people's minds. Trolls have never been so obvious.
Atheistfools. You are to much of a coward to actually come face to face with an Atheist. You complain about Bill Gates doing charity work to avoid taxes. Well isn't that exactly what most representatives of your so called religion do all the time? Like say Limbaugh and others?
The World's Top Ten Bgigest Givers
(let's play "count the Christians")
Bill Gates – $28 Billion donated – irreligious
Warren Buffett – $3 Billion – irreligious
George Soros – $8 Billion – Atheist
Gordon Moore – $7 Billion – Deist
George Kaiser – $4 Billion – Jewish
Carlos Slim Helu – $4 Billion – Christian
Eli Broad – $2.6 Billion – Jewish
Azim Premji – $2.1 billion – Muslim
James Stowers – $2 Billion – agnostic
Micheal Dell – $1.2 billion – Jewish
Doc Vestibule – you mentioned George Soros in your list of "BENEFACTORS" All Soros does is fund ABORTION CLINICS - always in poorer, downtown, rundown areas which have mainly ETHNIC groups or 'poor, uneducated whites'.
Let's tell it like it is: Soros and most of your "rich list ' are the shoddy elitist, baby murdering, atheist hypocrites whose sole aim is killing off the unwanted sub-species [their ideas, not mine] ready for the New World Order. Nothing new there then!
Doc V – Warren Buffet can afford it – he allegedly owes 10 YEARS in back taxes!!!!! You've been PLAYED if you believe what these people tell you!.....................charity?..............Nah!
Can I sell you shares in my underground Airline? BTW people who genuinely support charities DON'T BROADCAST the fact!
In the immortal words of Sgt. Hulka
"Lighten up, Francis".
Pope Francis is a good, genuinely caring man. He is making a huge impact on people of all religions, so Atheists will persecute him for it because holiness to you people is anathema! Thia is the TRUTH
But in the immortal words of Jack Nicholson to Tom Cruise in "A Few Good Men"--"Sonny , you can't HANDLE the truth!"
Here is another good proof that atheists and gay people are hiding behind religion and also in the government and all over the places where they can put forward their agenda. They're infiltrating everywhere. Let's unmask them and clean the places up. And then good riddance.
You're kidding right? After all the anti gay pogroms, the edicts, the fact that the Catholic church is the largest anti gay organization in the world, and you think it's infiltrated?
Or maybe they are just making up an excuse for more anti gay laws.
Think.
What? You trying to pull another Inquisition? Trying to pull another Hitler? Get lost.
Doesn't sound like he can think.
Yes! Please excommunicate all of them and anyone who likes them and any of their family and anyone who knows a gay person and has not run them through with a spear yet as the bible commands. Once you kick them all out of the Church you can have the Vatican all to yourself and it will be able to house all the remaining Catholics.
AtheistsFools (stupid ism in bloom ism)
Good, maybe after that we won't have to clean every door knobs 250 times a day.
sounds like you have a lot of experience cleaning knobs. you always leave a little saliva behind though...
Booooooring.
I didn't realize hating people was such a Christian thing to do.
Or maybe you aren't a Christian?
@littlebunnyfufu
you must not have read the bible then. lots of commands to hate and kill in that awful book.
Very true. Well said/
Paranoid much?
The only surprise is that it is finally being acknowledged.
Maybe [supposed] celibacy was a bad idea?
Gay men used to take refuge in the church, but now that they can be "out", not so much anymore.
There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
Ezekiel 23:20
There is no such thing as an out gay priest in the Vatican. The Church is anti gay at its core.
@tas
The church is anti-se/x at its core.
FTFY
sadly the pope can't tell the difference between gay and pedophile.
exactly.
There's no difference, they're the same type of people that are just using another name trying to clean their image.
get an education.
when you come across a man that molests a little girl, is that an indictment of being straight? of course not, moron. apply the same logic to g.ay men. but of course, you aren't friends with "logic".
Really? Gays are pedophiles and all pedophiles are gay? Remember Sandusky? He has a wife and kids.
Pedophiles like kids – boys or girls. But idiots like you give strangers of the same gender to your kids more access than strangers of the opposite gender.
Gays like men. Not boys, men.
Sorry if this is such a difficult concept.
FYI, I was responding to Atheistfools.
The priests molested mostly young men; boys with pee-pees large enough to turn them on and subject to erection.
Yes, the pedophile group is the one they need to eradicate.
Hmm, oddly enough I can't tell if Booty is the jerk and fekt a simpleton or the other way around.
Boys or men, they're both male, so it make a gay person a pedophile period.
and what about men who molest little girls? does that show that straight s.ex is wrong? that being heteros.exual is wrong?
fool, Clearly there is a difference but you choose not to see it.
Criton
Hmm, oddly enough I can't tell if Booty is the jerk and fekt a simpleton or the other way around.
that is odd and doesn't say much for your reading comprehension.
Pedophile that are attracted to little girls are also attracted to woman, they're just f..ed up in the brain. Same thing for gay.
Must be next to the mud room.
Gay exists inside Pope Francis.
It exists inside every human being. That is why it is ultimately a lifestyle "choice" or "preference". A choice that is easier to make for some than others.
Icur, I know it may be hard to let go of that little delusion, but it's not a choice.
My guess is that people who think being gay is a choice just don't want to admit to themselves that they are gay.
"My guess is that people who think being gay is a choice just don't want to admit to themselves that they are gay."
Exactly, they are currently "choosing" to be straight because they have been told gay is dirty and icky to their parents and their parents God so it's a choice for them.
Take a good look from a rational perspective:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_historical_existence_of_Jesus_Christ
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Failed_biblical_prophecies
Corinthians 10:3-5
Amen.
Richard,
And how do explain personalities? How about conscience and having any value? And where did everything for the Big Bang ceom from? Einstein hated to acknowledge that the universe was actually growing because that menat it had a beginning. He also saw from the research provided by Hubble, that as you go back in time all of the matter grew infinitely smaller because the spirals of motion get inifinitely tighter and there is eventually a point where there is nothing. Of course, he chose to plug up his ears as well. Sad.
Pray for Robert to learn to use the reply button, heh.
Robert, you should get a personality.
Einstein did not "hate" any of the findings of his experiments. Einstein was more appreciative of the elegance of certain mathematical descriptions of reality and quite puzzled by other descriptions.
We don't know why there is something rather than nothing or why it appears to us the way that it does, but it's silly to lie and claim that a big, invisible sky wizard did it with magic spells. It's a mystery. Deal with it.
are you saying a better answer to the origins of the universe is that it was "magic"?
The common argument, “well, what caused the Big Bang?” with the implication that, because we have only theories and no iron clad explanation for the Big Bang yet, [the Christian] god must have caused it – does not make sense to us. “I don’t know” does not equal “god” to us, much less the Judeo-Christian god. We feel the answers to such a question are much more likely to be found in Einstein’s equations, quantum physics, large particle accelerators and radio telescopes than in Genesis Chapters 1 through 20. We’re crazy aren’t we?
Q:
"How do you explain __________ ?"
A: Goddidit.
Gosh, Robert must be new. Start here, Robert and get back to us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35WVf6Uvk8U
I'll answer the easy questoin:
Your religions says there was nothing, then suddenly everything.
My science says there was a big bang from stuff that was already here. I also see no reason to believe that everything that exists was a part of the big bang.
@Robert ... just sit there quietly scratching your "sack of itch" ... and leave the sanity to us.
Fool.
@doG whether or not you're crazy remains to be seen but frankly has nothingto do with this discussion.