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June 12th, 2013
02:32 PM ET
Big Baptist group urges ouster of Boy Scout execsBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - The Southern Baptist Convention, the country's second largest church, said Boy Scout executives who pushed to allow openly gay Scouts without properly consulting members should be ousted from office. In a resolution approved Wednesday at their annual meeting, Southern Baptist leaders stopped short of urging churches to cut ties with local troops in protest of the Scouting change, but didn't encourage them to stay, either. Either way, the historic decision to allow gay Scouts could "complicate basic understandings of male friendships, needlessly politicize human sexuality, and heighten sexual tensions within the Boy Scouts,” the Baptist resolution says. The Boy Scouts of America initially planned to lift its longtime ban on openly gay youth without canvassing members, Southern Baptists charged in a resolution that passed overwhelmingly. The executives behind that plan should be removed, the Baptists said. With 16 million members in some 45,000 congregations, the Southern Baptist Convention is the country’s largest Protestant denomination. Baptists as a whole, including several smaller denominations, sponsor about 4,000 Scouting units representing 100,000 youths. “We have a deep respect for the Southern Baptist Convention and its churches that use Scouting in their youth ministries,” said Deron Smith, a spokesman for the Boy Scouts of America. “Scouting’s youth member policy is not about the BSA condoning homosexuality, or forcing its chartered organizations to do the same.” After BSA leaders floated the idea of allowing gay youths in January, more than 60% of the BSA's 1,400-member national council approved the change in May. It takes effect Jan. 1. The BSA will continue to prohibit any sexual conduct - heterosexual or homosexual - among its youth. The ban on openly gay leaders continues as well. Membership in Boy Scouts has declined nearly 20% since 1999. About 2.7 million young people now participate nationwide. Boy Scouts to allow gay youths to join Smith said opening membership to gay youth “allows Scouting to be more compassionate in its response to a young person who expresses a same-sex attraction.” Faith-based organizations charter more than 70% of Scout chapters, providing meeting space and leadership, according to the BSA. Several of the largest religious sponsors, including the Mormon church, the United Methodist Church and the Roman Catholic Church, have indicated that they do not plan to disaffiliate from the BSA. Still, many conservative congregations, particularly Southern Baptists, have pledged to cut ties with local troops, and some pastors on Wednesday called on the entire denomination to do likewise. “We should stand firmly and keep ourselves from having to revisit this issue in future years,” Pastor Mike Janz of First Baptist Church of Rosamond, California, said Wednesday at the Baptist meeting. Janz’s proposal to urge all Southern Baptists to disaffiliate from the Scouts was handily defeated Wednesday. Still, some top Southern Baptist leaders predict that congregations will leave the Scouts "en masse." Baptists plan exodus from Boy Scouts Pastor Charlie Dale of Indian Springs First Baptist Church in Alabama said churches and Scouts should help, not bar, boys who believe they are gay. “Such a boy needs love,” Dale said. “So let’s bring him in and show him what biblical manhood and real love is about.” Affiliating with Scout troops also provides an avenue for evangelism, said Pastor David Uth of Orlando. “We are very happy to partner (with Scouts) because it gives us access to more families and more boys to share the life-saving gospel of Jesus Christ.” Russell Moore, the new head of the SBC’s powerful Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, called Uth’s approach “wise and gospel-focused.” “This isn’t Disney redux, as some media predicted,” Moore tweeted. The Southern Baptists' resolution encourages churches to consider the denomination's homegrown Scouting alternative, the Royal Ambassadors, a Christian group dedicated to developing "godly young men." Meanwhile, liberal churches pledged to sponsor troops disowned by conservative congregations. For every host organization that has decided to sever ties with their troop, eight to 10 new ones have invited the Boy Scouts into their community, according to Jeff Fulcher, spokesman for the Atlanta Area Council of the BSA. "This membership issue is a sensitive issue with a lot of people in our community,” Fulcher said. “Some can't continue supporting the scouting programs. But the vast majority of the Scouts in our organization still want to continue scouting, and we've had a wide variety of churches, places of worship and civic organizations reaching out to us because they want scouting programs in their neighborhoods.” One such church is the One World Spiritual Center in Marietta, Georgia, where the community extended an invitation to Boys Scout troops soon to lose their meeting place. The Rev. Stephanie Seigh, head of the One World, said the church decided invite the Scouts after learning that Southern Baptists nearby refused to continue hosting their troops. “We teach our children that God is in everyone and everything. We don't discriminate," Seigh told CNN. CNN's Mayra Cuevas contributed to this report.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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'I Fired God: My Life Inside and Escape from the Secret World of the Independent Fundamental Baptist Cult' by
Jocelyn Zichterman
This is a peak at the dark side of the Baptist Church. Very sad.
You are too kind! I lit fire on him, and said "burn, baby burn", to which he replied "your sins will be forgiven". Then I said, "maybe so, but I won't forgive YOUR sins!" After that, we both got drunk, and had an awesome time with Virgin Mary (who were suprisingly willing, I must say...). Gee, Heaven is really awesome!
Sho nuff! Ha!
Where have the actual believers gone? There's been only a few of the more fractured ones sputtering on these last few days.
Summer vacations is what happened, O small drum set of otherness. Be at peace with the oneness of being or stfu.
Tom, you are a believer to be. He is risen. You want proof?
Sure, Austin. Let's see proof.
Maybe Austin had a dream about you, Tom.
Their parents must have sent them all to summer bible camp.
Vacation bible school..... isn't that an oxymoron?
Sure I have urges sometimes, and yes, sometimes those urges are big, but what kind of urges are big Baptist group urges?
They must be urgent urges.
I used to have urges until I got a catheter. Now I'm a walking talking miracle of ease. Just look at that pinnacle of modern medical science! It's like being a cyborg only the eye is down there. I attached the laser beam for fun. Whee! Look at the designs I can make on the wall!
Oh, THOSE kinds of urges! I thought we were talking about some kind of Baptist group $ex here...
Poster bigdakine below tells HeavenSent "You do know that the Church put Gallileo under house arrest, don't you?"
Very true. Regardless of what Galileo's beliefs were, the fact remains that the church didn't like being told that its science was out of date. That's similar to situations that we see today with the SBC, the RCC and any other religious sect who continue to ignore current science.
Even in some of the most tolerant posts on this subject, people refer to being gay as a "lifestyle".
Current psychology and biology both tell us differently. Read about epigenetics. It's not new although there was a very interesting recent article relating to homosexuality in last December's Quarterly Review of Biology. We've known about the evidence of epigenetics in nature for quite some time.
Read about epigenetics and aphids:
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/gri/2012/431531/
Read about this recent post:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130509123647.htm
Read something! Don't just stay ignorant!
–The earth is not flat
–The earth is not the center of the universe
–Being gay is not a choice
Being gay is a choice. I choose to ignor the fact that I am attracted to men.
mama k big money ..............no god(s) needed .............posted something about this long ago .
Supreme Court Rejects Patents on Two Naturally Occurring Genes
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2013/06/13/supreme-court-rejects-patents-on-two-naturally-occurring-genes/
Being gay is not a choice, but being an ignorant bigot is.
mama k a little humor and genetics and evolution !
Why Did the Chicken Lose Its Penis?
http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=why-did-the-chicken-lose-its-penis-13-06-06
Being old is not a choice but some people think it is. I may bring my dog next time. This place is big.
Hey dot where did all the ass hat sh-it go ?
And lol?? you are the fruitiest of them ALL.............no fvcking horn-y red beast needed.
You know geology and fvcking chondrites too !
New 'Embryonic' Subduction Zone Found
June 17, 2013 — A new subduction zone forming off the coast of Portugal heralds the beginning of a cycle that will see the Atlantic Ocean close as continental Europe moves closer to America.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130617104614.htm
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority/?replytocom=2407952#respond
Poster bigdakine below tells HeavenSent "You do know that the Church put Gallileo under house arrest, don't you?"
Very true. Regardless of what Galileo's beliefs were, the fact remains that the church didn't like being told that its science was out of date. That's similar to situations that we see today with the SBC, the RCC and any other religious sect who continue to ignore current science.
Even in some of the most tolerant posts on this subject, people refer to being gay as a "lifestyle".
Current psychology and biology both tell us differently. Read about epigenetics. It's not new although there was a very interesting recently article relating to homosexuality in last December's Quarterly Review of Biology. We've known about the evidence of epigenetics in nature for quite some time.
Read about epigenetics and aphids:
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/gri/2012/431531/
Read about this recent post:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130509123647.htm
Read something! Don't just stay ignorant!
–The earth is not flat
–The earth is not the center of the universe
–Being gay is not a choice
(Over-italicization corrected and re-posted above as new post.)
mama K tel us mo 'bout mudder earth. And where the center of the universe is.
lol??
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Alright who's da sicko??
lol??
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
"Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;"
Tell this to the ignorant PUblic Servants with all their lawmakin' based on race. The attorneys have enuff work already..
So you think it's all right to discriminate based on race??
What don't you understand??
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_historical_existence_of_Jesus_Christ
Accounts of 22 famous contemporary historians with references to the person of Jesus Christ;
Cornelius Tacitus (Roman A.D. 60) Thallus (Roman A.D. 52) Mara Bar Seraphian (Hebrew A.D. 73) Lucian of Samosata (Greek A.D. 125) Flavius Josephus (Hebrew A.D. 37) Suetonius (Roman A.D. 120) Plinius Secundus (Roman A.D. 112) Tertullian (Roman A.D. 175) Pontius Pilate (Roman A.D. 33) Justin Martyr (Roman A.D. 150); Jesus is also mentioned in the Jewish Talmud (work finished cir 500 AD) which incorporates the Mishna completed in cir 200 AD.
Proof of God's Existence by John Daniel Nyce – Jesus’ birth, transfiguration, crucifixion, miracles, empty tomb, resurrection and postmortem appearances-The One who fulfilled 330 prophesies. Of all world religions (past and present), none, except Christianity even lay claim to a holiday like Easter (the celebration of the resurrection of that religions deceased leader) and no other has established and fulfilled prophesies for their leader. Eyewitness accounts of Jesus life and miracles abound (2 Pet 1:16) (1 Jn. 1:1-3). Jesus was God, incarnate (Isa 9:6; Rom 9:5) (see “Jesus is God”). Jesus’ year/week of death was foretold in 486 BC (Dan 9:25) “70 weeks” of Daniel. Jesus’ name was foretold in 519 BC (Zech. Chapter 3) “Joshua/Jeshua” means the Lord saves. Jesus appears in the recorded lives of many people in visions and apparitions. The day the whole earth went dark…Paul Maier wrote in his book, Pontius Pilate. This phenomenon (darkness) evidently was visible in Rome, Athens, and other Mediterranean cities. According to Tertullian…it was a cosmic or world event. Phlegon, a Greek author reported that in the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad (i.e. 33 A.D.) there was the ‘greatest eclipse of the sun’ and that “‘it became night in the sixth hour of the day (i.e. noon) so that stars even appeared in the heavens’. There was a great earthquake in Bithynia, and many things were overturned in Niacea.’”
Obviously Robert Brown doesn't know what a hearsay "historian" is. Not to mention how much consensus there is regarding tampering of writings from those such as Josephus.
Robert Brown,
There is zero PROOF that God exists or doesn't exist.
The existence of a man named Jesus does NOT prove the existence of God. Jesus is the common name of someone who might cut lawns, for instance.
I don't understand how you would possibly think God and Jesus would approve of you being a racist, bigoted misogynist, lol??. Want to explain that to us?
JR, darwin corrupted yer bwain.
""race"
occurs 4 times in 4 verses in the KJV " and it's an activity.
straw men burn, dude.
lol??
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Observer sayz,
"This is all just Christian HYPOCRISY.
If they actually cared about sin, they'd be doing something about the MUCH GREATER number of Christian ADULTERERS who have divorced and remarried.
It's all pick-and-choose hypocrisy for most Bible-thumpers."
I call foul, fowl bwain. The pwogwessives insisted on the corruption of marriage by puttin' the Beasties in charge.. That didn't work out so hot, so NOW you are blaming the Christians.
ANY little TWISTED excuse to hate the Creator!!!!!!!
Nah, Observer is right. Christian hypocrisy. With lol?? as exhibit A in the "how NOT to be a good Christian".
Have you seen this doogie ?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/18/justice/boys-scouts-se-x-abuse-report
You know doogie take out the dash
Irony here is that percentage wise there has been no change in the number of "gay" scouts since the organization was founded. If I were a moral Babist, I'd worry more about ridding scouting of "Pedophiles"serving as scout leaders who do far more harm than so-called pre-adolescent gays!
Yes. This.
What's is a "babist?
It's a typo my friend!
Too many errors to be a typo.
I think I made my point. What's yours?
I'd worry more about ridding scouting of "Pedophiles"serving as scout leaders who do far more ham than so-called pre-adolescent gays!
I have never done ham before. Can you recommend it, then?
I love ham. Bacon too. Pretty much anything with salt. Except the ocean. That is some nasty stuff right there.
When someone tells me they are a Baptist I just assume they are a racist, hom.ophobic, moron until they prove otherwise.
lol
"you got to remember these are simple farmers, people of the land, the common clay of the new west. you know, morons" – blazing saddles
You left out misogynist.
I love me some Blazing Saddles.
joey ain't baptistphobe or an anti-religious bigot
Separating god from religion is helpful. Many posts below attribute errors in religions to the errors of men. I agree completely.
Can we all agree that all religions are man made?
The bible is yet another matter. Is it man made and hence infallible, or is it the infallible word of god? If it is the perfect word of god, it has some factual points about the world right at the start that conflict with scientific findings. The bible says the earth was created on the first day and the sun was created later. The bible says that birds were created before land animals. Either the vast majority of scientific knowledge that has worked developing modern medicine and technology is on a wrong foundation (that makes the success of medicine and technology virtually impossible), or the bible is wrong in some of it's facts.
No one can prove that god doesn't exist, but religions and the bible seem to have a lot of wrong stuff in them. There's a lot of evidence that they are man made.
faith,
Don't be so INCREDIBLY IGNORANT.
Atheists have been great scientists, mathematicians, writers, entertainers, etc.
Many are Mensa members and it is a safe bet that you would not be smart enough to qualify.
Faith isn't smart enough to even know what Mensa is.
Faith,
Your replies are quite defensive, indicative of a lack in confidence in your position.
1) Do you believe that the earth was created before the sun?
2) Do you believe birds were created before other land animals?
come on, filth....one click, you could be doing the lewinski thing on the savior, ingesting "Jesus's Truth".....
filth did not contribute to PBS because she thought that is what made her girlfriend b1tchy every month
I agree, bostontola, that it's impossible to prove that a god doesn't exist. But one thing is certain: due to the glaring inconsistencies, and implausibilities in the Bible, it's quite easy to prove that the "God of the Bible" clearly doesn't, and can't exist - at least as written.
I agree, bostontola, that the earth is round like your head. Or an oblate sphincteroid. Whatever sounds better.
This is all just Christian HYPOCRISY.
If they actually cared about sin, they'd be doing something about the MUCH GREATER number of Christian ADULTERERS who have divorced and remarried.
It's all pick-and-choose hypocrisy for most Bible-thumpers.
Ok, how about a new line of hate speech from you?
The issue is a desire to follow the way Christ made clear. If you follow that way what is your real problem?
@fred
The problem is the way christ made clear.
The bible allows people to own other people. The bible says killing people is okay for many 'sins'.
Even the Satanic Bible doesn't have so much violence and hate as your christ instructs. Look it up.
fred,
– Luke 16:18 “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”
You are on here all the time when the story picks on gays.
How many of your fellow Christians have you told that they are ADULTERERS?
NUMBER PLEASE. This is a HYPOCRISY test.
Alias
Christ said nothing of the kind. Perhaps you refer to verses in the Old Testament as Christ had one main undisputed message; :Love God and love others. When you read Bible one must remember it is a story of God showing man the way to the truth about life.
During the days of slavery as an accepted method of labor management in the given economy the Bible restricted and limited the common brutality. The proper treatment of a fellow man was to set the Hebrew apart from the brutal nature of those around them. In the same manner Christ said love your neighbor and love your enemy. In context the theme is the same yet those older cultures could not have understood love your enemy or slave.
Observer
I cannot recall Christ speaking of gays if you can please let me know. In the meantime get a new sound bite.
fred,
NUMBER PLEASE. This is a test of hypocrisy.
Observer
"How many of your fellow Christians have you told that they are ADULTERERS"
=>I doubt that I could recall the exact number but it has been a whole bunch of times. You forget Christ made it clear that the sin of adultery is not limited to a physical encounter but includes thought of lustful desire. You also continually forget that sin point us towards a need for Gods mercy and grace not a cause to drive us away from God.
"You also continually forget that sin point us towards a need for Gods mercy and grace not a cause to drive us away from God."
And you continually forget that sin, as well as heaven, hell and god, are man made concepts
sam stone
Given we are made in the image of God our core "DNA" (as evidenced by 98% of the world population) knows there is more to this existence than chemical reaction on organic matter. The old story of the serpent warns us about the deception of the desires and what happens when we look on the fruit of the creation and not the creator. There comes a point in time when we have so distanced ourselves from the reality of God that we no longer sense the presence. Like the evolutionist that believes a fish walked out of the water and fins became legs so too our adaptation to reality without God leaves us unable to breath in the environment we came from.
"Given we are made in the image of God"
Are you stating your conjecture as if were fact?
"knows there is more to this existence than chemical reaction on organic matter."
wow, they have opinions. good for them
"The old story of the serpent warns us about the deception of the desires and what happens when we look on the fruit of the creation and not the creator. There comes a point in time when we have so distanced ourselves from the reality of God "
You mean the fantasy of god....
"Like the evolutionist that believes a fish walked out of the water and fins became legs so too our adaptation to reality without God leaves us unable to breath in the environment we came from."
most of the world does not believe in your god, and has no problem breathing
sam stone
It is not conjecture it is simply taken direct from the Bible. Now, if the Bible is false then I am very wrong.
I have a personal history where God has been revealed and prayer answered. What the Bible said would happen to me did happen to me and continues to happen. How exactly am I to exchange that for the atheists belief that the Bible is false?
Of course it's conjecture. Just because you read it in a book doesn't mean it's so, ferd. You've never seen god.
Your beliefs about god are no more real than your silly contention that gays are intent on driving religion out of the US. You and HS put together can't even formulate a cogent thought. What idiots.
fred,
"I doubt that I could recall the exact number but it has been a whole bunch of times"
Give us a good guess. How many Christians have you told "you need to divorce and get out of a life of adultery"?.
NUMBER PLEASE.
@fred,
@Alias said, "The bible allows people to own other people."
you said, "Christ said nothing of the kind."
While there is no evidence that Jesus "instructs" such, one would assume that Jesus supports the Bible which does in fact allow "people to own other people". As such it would seem that you are either claiming Jesus doesn't support the Bible or you are being disingenuous by claiming that Jesus did not speak those words but did support the same concept.
The Real Tom
God is revealed through creation, the Bible and in Christ. I was not present in days of Jesus so I have the Bible and creation. I see an image of God in the wonder and awe of this very existence. Science has observed a never ending wonder as it digs into the smaller and smaller particles of matter and energy as well as a never ending wonder as it looks outward to the heavens. Yet you somehow conclude all is finite. Exactly who is lacking in reason?
I see the image of God in the Bible as through the generations a remnant is continually brought through the wickedness that longs for the promise of God. In the person of Jesus we see the full reflection of the glory of God with a love none of us can match, that all giving goodness without limit onto death.
I see the image of God in man through mans ability to form unseen thoughts into reality creating works of never ending wonder in the presence of evil that seeks only to destroy that which is good.
All of this is very real. You see the same world yet with an ear to the serpent caught by the deception we were warned about in the beginning. You who thinks of herself as the bright one yet cannot shake the lure of forbidden fruit. As with Eve the word of God you doubt was the truth and now you find yourself in a lifetime of existence without the full presence of God.
Observer
God hates divorce and adultery is betrayal of trust. The defiling of marriage goes well beyond the sexual context with significant spiritual overtones that relate to the Church, Christ and a wedding banquet that awaits believers. Read your Bible and tell me who is the bride groom.
fred,
This is all about CHRISTIAN HYPOCRITES
fred,
You are always on here talking about gays who sin. You've made hundreds of comments..
So HOW MANY remarried Christians have you told to divorce to stop their ADULTERY?
NUMBER PLEASE. Let's see how this HYPOCRISY test turns out.
ME II
"While there is no evidence that Jesus "instructs" such, one would assume that Jesus supports the Bible which does in fact allow "people to own other people".
=>Jesus stepped it up a notch and demanded his followers become slaves i.e. servants just as Jesus came to serve not be served. In much the same tone as the old testament Jesus specifically said in Luke 12:47 “And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. " Now, he was speaking about degrees of punishment and reward based upon what a person knew concerning his master as he went on to explain that to whom much is given much is expected. The point being we are servants of God and are to be servants to those in need.
The Law of the Prophets was summarized into two Love God love your neighbor. There is no wiggle room for not loving your servant (slave). It was God who handed his own chosen ones over to brutal slavery under Egypt and God who brought them out. In the same way we are slaves to sin and Christ brought us out of slavery. Now we are slaves to God but offer up ourselves as servants. At some point we get the picture and desire God over the desires of the world. That is how we become free.
fred = Chad
fred,
It was God who gave instructions on HOW BADLY you could hurt your slaves and not have any punishment.
Read a Bible so you don't have to make things up.
Observer
No, you pull verses out of context. God was setting limits on certain behavior so as to set the Chosen Ones apart from the surrounding brutal culture. Keep it in context you will note they were reminded of their oppression as slaves under Egypt and set free by God. They were not to be oppressive.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife does not condone beating her dog.
fred, you continue to chirp on about jesus as if he actually existed and was actually a god. Without evidence, such fervent delusional belief can only be considered a mental illness. Have you seen a mental health professional recently? Ever?
An honest believer would preface their claims with something like "Despite not having a shred of independent, factual, objective or verifiable evidence, I believe . . ." Why are you a dishonest member of the dead jew zombie vampire cannibal death cult aka christian?
HotAirAce
"An honest believer would preface their claims with something like "Despite not having a shred of independent, factual, objective or verifiable evidence, I believe . . ."
=>Now it is you who has lost all sense of reason. You expect me to provide proof of the supernatural? I would need to use natural properties of matter and energy to do so which would render the supernatural simply natural.
=>You get the same proof the Sanhedrin demanded of Jesus which is the sign of Jonah. The book of Jonah is very short give it a quick read with an open mind. Let me give you a hint; it is a big fish story.
Or you could just admit the probability of the supernatural existing at all is not 100%, more likely virtually 0%.
Sanhedrin. LOL. Demanded of whom?
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_historical_existence_of_Jesus_Christ
@cutting through the garbage
Your reference is as unbiased as the Catholic register is concerning the Pope. Here is their statement of purpose from their own website:
Our purpose here at RationalWiki includes:
1.Analyzing and refuting pseudoscience and the anti-science movement.
2.Documenting the full range of crank ideas.
3.Explorations of authoritarianism and fundamentalism.
4.Analysis and criticism of how these subjects are handled in the media.
Now, if you have the guts read Jonah with an open mind for true picture of why there is no proof given other than the sign of Jonah.
fred,
– Exodus 21:20-21 “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property” [God]
Taken out of context? Are you at all serious? Are you DELUSIONAL?
Jonah – LOL. A whale of a story :).
HotAirAce
Until such a time as we can know what we do not know the probability of supernatural is 100%. Perhaps you are speaking about God as opposed to the supernatural because science continues to seek out causation for our existence yet ends up with the supernatural 100% of the time.
A quantum gravitational phase is not a supernatural causation it is a mathematical construct but it is drifting towards an abstract of reality. When we reach that point we will be the mind of God. One problem is that we find ourselves back in the garden of Eden when the serpent said to Eve you will be wise like God knowing good and evil.
It would be much easier simply to read the Bible if you want to know why we exist.
fred: "Until such a time as we can know what we do not know the probability of supernatural is 100%. "
What a load of BS. fred really must not have a clue how completely ridiculous that sounds. Let's reword it: "I'm going to put a figure on something I know nothing about."
one would assume DM Murdock
one would assume, using the same logic, that dodo is terrified of being exposed as the disgusting, despised, mocked fool that she really is
It is inaccurate to claim that one cannot prove the existence of a god.
The god I've heard about all my life supposedly answers prayers. It supposedly makes things "happen" physically in our home-sweet-home, plane of reality.
This manipulation of properties in our own universe should be detectable.
Roger
fred: "Until such a time as we can know what we do not know the probability of supernatural is 100%. "
What a load of BS. fred really must not have a clue how completely ridiculous that sounds. Let's reword it: "I'm going to put a figure on something I know nothing about."
like atheists no thar ain't no gawwwwwwwwwwwwwd!
dodo, go to school somewhere, honey.
Fred, you are just laughable. You seem to think that I'm gay, first of all, and secondly, you seem to think I live a life full of depravity. Are you really that stupid. I'm one of the most ethical people you'd ever want to meet. I don't lie. I've never had an extramarital affair. I have had a long career in a profession that involves a good deal of sacrifice.
You really are just a silly, stupid little goober, fred. There's no serpent except the one in your head.
EnjaySea
It is inaccurate to claim that one cannot prove the existence of a god.
The god I've heard about all my life supposedly answers prayers. It supposedly makes things "happen" physically in our home-sweet-home, plane of reality.
This manipulation of properties in our own universe should be detectable.
hey Mozart, make up my mind, doofus.
1. find out b4 saying stuff like the bible supposedly says, u idiot. it will do wonders 4 ur rep as a jerk
2. look closer. like u no what god is doing in the lives of christians
3. if u r deluded enough 2 blieve hitler was a christian, u will remain a fool in the eyes of scholars and everyone else who isn't u
3. god would show some sign through the universe. what a genius. y? the universe and god? please. the universe appeared on march 6 at 7am. what does gawwwwwwwwd have 2 do with it?
lol
nice try u fat phony piece of garbage
EnjaySea
It is inaccurate to claim that one cannot prove the existence of a god.
The god I've heard about all my life supposedly answers prayers. It supposedly makes things "happen" physically in our home-sweet-home, plane of reality.
This manipulation of properties in our own universe should be detectable.
hey Mozart, make up my mind, doofus.
1. find out b4 saying stuff like the bible supposedly says, u idiot. it will do wonders 4 ur rep as a jerk
2. look closer. like u no what god is doing in the lives of christians
3. if u r deluded enough 2 blieve hitler was a christian, u will remain a fool in the eyes of scholars and everyone else who isn't u
3. god would show some sign through the universe. what a genius. y? the universe and god? please. the universe appeared on march 6 at 7am. what does gawwwwwwwwd have 2 do with it?
lol
nice try u fat phony piece of garbage
plenty of brilliant men wrote down exactly what happened when jesus Christ roamed our earth 2,000 years ago. they had no reason 2 lie or distort their message.
@Faith replied, quite impolitely, to my position on proving the existence of god as follows: "nice try u fat phony piece of garbage".
Let me go on to give an example. Let's say, for instance, that there were a group of observers present when Jesus supposedly walked on water.
They could have him repeat the task, but examine his feet to make sure he wasn't using a flotation device, and could have verified that there was no surface, just beneath the water, that he could have been walking on.
If none of these were present, that would be proof of the supernatural, using a simple test.
Roger
fred: "Until such a time as we can know what we do not know the probability of supernatural is 100%. "
What a load of BS. fred really must not have a clue how completely ridiculous that sounds. Let's reword it: "I'm going to put a figure on something I know nothing about."
like atheists no thar ain't no gawwwwwwwwwwwwwd!
dodo, go to school somewhere, honey.
EnjaySea
It is inaccurate to claim that one cannot prove the existence of a god.
The god I've heard about all my life supposedly answers prayers. It supposedly makes things "happen" physically in our home-sweet-home, plane of reality.
This manipulation of properties in our own universe should be detectable.
hey Mozart, make up my mind, doofus.
1. find out b4 saying stuff like the bible supposedly says, u idiot. it will do wonders 4 ur rep as a jerk
2. look closer. like u no what god is doing in the lives of christians
3. if u r deluded enough 2 blieve hitler was a christian, u will remain a fool in the eyes of scholars and everyone else who isn't u
3. god would show some sign through the universe. what a genius. y? the universe and god? please. the universe appeared on march 6 at 7am. what does gawwwwwwwwd have 2 do with it?
lol
nice try u fat phony piece of garbage
plenty of brilliant men wrote down exactly what happened when jesus Christ roamed our earth 2,000 years ago. they had no reason 2 lie or distort their message.
that is called irrefutable evidence
I never could get that child past the number three.
@faith was right about one thing though. I do need to lose a little bit of weight.
Observer
Thanks you just confirmed my point. God gave the Hebrew laws to separate them from the brutal nations around them. Slave were killed at will, tortured and beaten mercilessly but these Chosen Ones would be punished if they killed a slave.
Now, the Bible was written in a scroll and the division you broke out was from the commandments and then tort laws so you must begin with:
Exodus 20 The Ten Commandments
1And God spoke all these words:
2 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
etc.down to the verse you cherry picked.
The real Tom
"You seem to think that I'm gay"
=>will the real Tom please stand up
"secondly, you seem to think I live a life full of depravity"
=>I don't recall suggesting anything of the sort,,,,,,,ever
.
" I'm one of the most ethical people you'd ever want to meet"
=>and humble I must add
" I don't lie. I've never had an extramarital affair. I have had a long career in a profession that involves a good deal of sacrifice. "
=>alright already you and rich man both go to heaven
fred,
READ THIS. Then tell us when SLAVERY was a good idea. God NEVER said slavery was a SIN or an abomination.
– Exodus 21:20-21 “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property” [God}
It's incredible that anyone could be so IGNORANT and HEARTLESS as to support the beating of slaves with rods as long as they DIDN'T DIE in a "DAY OR TWO".
I thought you might actually be a loving, caring person, but obviously you think beating slaves is fine if it happens in the right countries. Absolutely PATHETIC. This is what a "Christian" believes?
You make me PROUD not to be a Christian.
"I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery"
"Yep. I kept you from being slaves, but have no problem if you own slaves and beat them with rods as long as the live "a day or two". Just more HYPOCRISY.
The Real Tom
The deception of the serpent was doubt (not being, gay, having affairs etc. all of which relates to existence outside of the presence of God) "did God really say that" was the voice of deception. The reality you see and non believers see is existence absent of the life force of God. In the beginning God breathed life into man. That was the image of God put into man. It is not a physical thing it is that which is not visible and comes through faith. I walk around on the same planet you do except I see the presence of God all around and through creation. By faith I have seen answered prayer that is a constant encouragement and I know that God is by my side.
You see only the world of the serpent (doubt in Gods purpose for your existence) which is limited to the physical. This is why most nonbelievers are materialists or heavy into naturalism almost to the extent of philosophical naturalism. That limited world view is full of all that will keep you out of the light.
Observer
Again and again and again you take verses out of context and I pray is not out evil intent.
You posted Exodus 21:21 " If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property”
=>a day or two means from time to time it could be 24 hours or a longer period of time. You cannot separate this verse from the context of the killing of another human. An eye for an eye was in force and if the slave dies then the owner could receive a death sentence. If the slave is not killed accidently or intentionally then the owner will not be put to death which is the meaning of "no vengeance will be taken". The slave is valuable to the owner and the owner paid for and has brought up the slave and would not damage his own property suffering loss. That is the meaning of "for he is your property". If it helps you understand a little better some people treat rental cars a lot worse than they do their own cars. The Hebrew were being reminded it was their property and their loss.
This treatment of slaves was kind and remarkable given the custom of the surrounding nations. The Chosen Ones were a holy people onto God and the laws protecting foreigners and slaves was unique to honor God who brought them out of slavery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MFmC6BD1B4
" “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod" and he doesn't die " no vengeance shall be taken"
I don't know how else to take that other than it's okay to beat your slaves as long as you don't kill them.
redzoa
The African Slave trade is not at issue and God did specifically forbid kidnaping foreigners into slavery. The fact corrupt men used to the Bible to justify their cruelty in the slave trade is no different than Hitler using the Bible to abuse Jews.
The purchase of foreigners as slaves was specific to the nations around them. God always dealt with people where they were in life not where they would have or could have been. The Bible reflects real life and culture as it was without sugar coating. This is 2013 and we are still attempting to define just how and to whom the spoils of labor should fall.
Exactly what is the value of the Law in the Old Testament other than to point out the sinful nature of man and his need for a savior. Even the threat of hell does not slow down the lust of men who claim to be of God. As to those who reject God (the foreign nations around the Hebrew from which they could buy slaves) what is sin to them. Look at this web site and see the present mocking of sin and God from nonbelievers. What would a law "thou shalt have not slaves mean outside of the local Hebrews except to undermine their chance of survival given the slavery dependent economies of the day.
David
I doubt repeating myself would be of any value to you. If you cannot understand the fact these commandments were given right after God delivered them from brutal and oppressive slavery fro over 400 years (430 year). I am the God who delivered you out slavery do not oppress people they way you were oppressed. If they did not learn their lesson over that time they would never learn it.
How simple is it to remember that there was no verse 20 and 21 or Exodus numbered verses as that was added latter. If you kill your slave punishment is death if he lives as before then you have suffered no loss he is your property. Only a radical Muslim reads this verse as Observer does in order to justify brutality against their wives and others. Hopefully you will understand that was not the understanding.
I see, fred. Without engaging in impious mockery, let me say that it was immoral of the God of Israel to allow its followers to engage in slavery. That their competitors were at some sort of advantage because they were doing it is a lame excuse. The stories you believe tell of powerful and even supernatural interventions by God to keep his people in good shape relative to competing nations. That it would fall back on slavery is, well, cheap and mean.
@fred – What TTOO said . . .
@TTOO – If you want to see "cheap and mean" you should hear any of fred's various and uniformly abhorrent defenses of child slaughter as depicted in 1 Sam 15:3.
Fred, how do you explain the fact that there is not a single shred of evidence outside of the bible that the Jewish people were ever slaves in Egypt?
Joey
According to Egyptian records, the Hyskos were expelled from Egypt. What's more, for a time, Egypt's capital was moved and Egypt took up monotheism. When polytheistic Egyptian subjects in Canaan wrote for help against a marauding band of Semites, the monotheistic Egyptian Pharaoh ignored their requests.
Tom, Tom, the Other One
God allows his "Chosen Ones" to engage in all sorts of immoral behavior. How does that make God immoral? If you want to say God was immoral you could argue subjecting the Chosen Ones to 430 years of brutal oppressive slavery in Egypt was immoral.
What do we really know about the conditions and the way slaves / bondservants were treated by a "holy people"? Sometimes I make to many assumptions around a few words but given total lack of evidence one way the other why not assume they treated them like family? Abraham treated his slaves with respect and even trusted them to find a wife for Isaac. When he was without a child at age 75 Abraham was going to give the title to all his possessions and position as spiritual / family leader over to his slave. That was the custom with these people.
redzoe
The story is about Saul second guessing God or keeping the best for himself rather than follow God in 1 sam.
The Amalekites as you recall offered live sacrifice of infants and children into the red hot bronze arms of their fertility god while they danced and had orgies. These Amalekites were constantly attacking the Hebrew and blocking them.
Tell me why would a loving God allow such a civilization to exist and spread its evil? If children and infants were killed it was quick and better than a life of live sacrifice in red hot arms or growing up blood thirsty and wicked. If God is God you can trust he took better care of these children then their society would have.
Hey fredie where did all that ass hat sh-it go ?
And lol??/fredie you are the fruitiest of them ALL.............no fvcking horn-y red beast needed.
You know geology and fvcking chondrites too !
New 'Embryonic' Subduction Zone Found
June 17, 2013 — A new subduction zone forming off the coast of Portugal heralds the beginning of a cycle that will see the Atlantic Ocean close as continental Europe moves closer to America.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130617104614.htm
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority/?replytocom=2407952#respond
@Freddie.... "The deception of the serpent was doubt..."
The old talking snake ploy.... how's the delusion working out for ya freddie?
what a moron.
If we're born sinners, how can sin be a choice?
B/c of original sin
Original sin. Right.
Your loving god would send us to hell for ever because of a sin someone else committed 5,000 years ago?
Oh, the warm fuzzies are almost too much!
We are born sinners and must be born again, born of the spirit, born from above. Whether we are born again, or not, we are still capable of committing sin. A sinful thought enters the mind. We choose whether to continue to think about this sin, or to reject it and clear it from our mind. If we continue to dwell on it, we may eventually act on it.
So God, in his infinite wisdom, has cursed the remaining products with a defect from the first. Wow... that's strangely difficult to swallow as truth.
Sheesh. I was only answering his question. Not need to insult.
So people born in remote locations that have no concept of being 'born again' are what, doomed? Hey Rob, can't God see the future to know if a person will save themselves or not? If they won't, why bother making them to get shipped to Hades?
I see some sarcasm, but who insulted you?
@CK, sorry. I wasn't trying to insult.
Christian morons believe Adam made that choice for us and we now all have to pay the price. It's the idea of inherited sin, passed on through no fault of their own, with all, even babies, needing redemption from that fruit eaters choice.
Joe,
I don’t know about those born in remote locations, I think and hope God would consider them the same as an innocent child who has yet to reach the age of accountability. Speaking of children, Jesus said, of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Folks don’t save themselves, but God knows the future. I don’t know why he makes them to ship them to hades. There are some things in his word that indicate he is glorified either way. He is glorified in mercy and or judgment.
@Robert Brown
These are the answers that drive so many away from your religion. You ignore the bible and make shit up when you don't like what it says.
You think god should/would do something different from what the bible says. LOL!
Children who are not baptized, worship other gods, and never accept jusus as their savior are going to burn forever according to youe perfect word of god.
Alias
That is not what the Bible says. It says all are held accountable for what they were given. That is a far cry from you assumption that the Bible says we are held accountable for what we SHOULD have been given.
"We are born sinners"
because it said so in an iron age comic book?
Sin is a man made concept, Robert. So is god, heaven and hell
"Folks don’t save themselves, but God knows the future"
If god knows the future, there is no free will
"He is glorified in mercy and or judgment."
So, we are all pawns in god's mental masturbation?
And you want to spend eternity with this pr1ck?
Alias,
I wasn’t making anything up.
Luke 18:16
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
robert: you continue to quote from the bible to those who do not accept the dubious authority of the bible. does it make you feel all godly?
The bible is BS !
Biblical Marriage Not Defined Simply As One Man, One Woman: Iowa Religious Scholars' Op-Ed
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/06/biblical-marriage-iowa-scholars-op-ed_n_3397304.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular
The scholars in Iowa ................go figure.................as the trail goes through the forest............on the way to Grandma's
It's not literally true but it is better than science.
And by science I don't mean you but the curriculum we learned in school.
Ney Bill New science standards created by majority of states for 2013 and beyond ...........write your reps. in Washington
and tell them to increase funding for science education.
I wasn’t familiar with this. What science standards are you referring to? Do you have a link?
While we're at it, can we remove some intentionally included errors from the history books?
i.e. that the dark ages ended when the printing press was invented.
When did the dark ages end?
On CNN .............school of thought............back in 2012.
The dark ages ended when the church lost its power and scientists quit being prosecuted for contradicting the bible.
lol then we are still in the dark ages fool lolololol
It's got to be tough being a Christian these days.
The churches are in a conundrum because of the following logical trap they created:
Premises
1. Sin is a choice.
2. Being gay is always a sin.
Conclusion
Being gay is always a choice.
If a church wanted to adopt the scientific evidence that being gay is not always a choice then either sin isn't a choice, or being gay isn't a sin. It's almost as bad as the sun orbits the earth (poor Galileo) and the earth was created before the sun. Another pickle they got themselves into.
1) Being gay is disgusting.
2) another dudes hairy backside is loathsome
3) Being a made up culture of effeminate stereotypes and chicks with bad haircuts and wallet chains is priceless though
Why is that that people who are against gay marriage can't think of anything other than butt se.x when discussing the topic? It seems very strange to me.
mid size civil rights firm represents us
mid size civil rights firm represents us
we have copied in full web pages for months, b4 and after deletions with thammie's and others terroristic threats, hate speech and defaming filth.
does that help u dodo?
"Why is that that people who are against gay marriage can't think of anything other than butt se.x when discussing the topic?"
Because they are trained perverts from childhood. Their religious peers made s e x taboo and thus they can't help themselves. Every time someone mentions another person is "in love" they can't get the thought of a penis ramming into v a gina or ass out of their minds. They were not brain washed as children, they were brain stained.
Ginger A.,
All 3 of your points are irrelevant to the argument. How does your distaste for gays bear on the choice question? Your self admitted bias brings your qualification to discuss the factual point into question.
geez dave prolly cause you and your Gay buds are forcing us and a bunch of MINORS all to accept your nasty lifestyle.
at: bostontola
A lot of churches welcome h.mos.xual and transgendered people. It is nothing new.
Actually boston person my points are way relevant. What does your twisted little hobby have to do with scouting?Why are you forcing minors to accept it?
Ginger Ale,
Well, I loathe cilantro, mushrooms, Parmesan cheese and any kind of pepper.
Claim: "Ginger Ale" has no facts to back up its fears.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
Boston [regarding Christians not facing science]: "Another pickle they got themselves into."
Let's check in and see how the SBC, RCC and their ilk are handling such a dilemma:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YIj4rLYo0c
"poor Galileo"
Well, Galieeo was a Christian. Just as much as those who opposed him.
"Bible teaches men how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go,"
– Poor Galileo
Ah, so side-stepping is your specialty, AE? So do you think the earth is still the center of the universe or not?
The Bible doesn't say that the Earth is in the center of the universe.
Some people made a big mistake about that.
Quoting "Seyedibar" from yesterday,
"If you know anything about Galileo, then you know he lived in an age of christian fascism where it was dangerous to be anything but."
There simply is no excuse for ignorance.
Roger
ICR and the old Discovery Insti-tute.........chasing tail also maybe ?
We may be the center of God's attention. From God's perspective human beings and Earth may be the center of the universe.
And then there is the size theory...
We’re a lot smaller than galaxies and the universe.
We’re a lot bigger than the really small size scale of atoms and the interiors of atoms.
Perhaps we are right in the center of universal size?
"Some people made a big mistake about that."
How many "mistakes" does religion get before you realize it's full of feces? Or do you get to just make claims, have them proven wrong, backpedel and say thats not what you meant, then present a new idea you think science will never be able to prove only to be proven wrong almost before it's out of your mouth. It's time to stop making excuses for disorganized religion and dump it in the sewer where it belongs.
@ "If you know anything about Galileo, then you know he lived in an age of christian fascism where it was dangerous to be anything but."
@ There simply is no excuse for ignorance.
Yea, Christian fascism is scary. Any kind of fascism is scary.
But Galileo joined the clergy. He really had faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus may have inspired him to stand up to the corrupt with power religious dictators of his time.
LOL – AE is quite the side-stepping, dancing fool! Sugar-coat it all you like, AE, but the point is that Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy", namely of having held the opinions that the Sun lies motionless at the centre of the universe, that the Earth is not at its centre and moves, and that one may hold and defend an opinion as probable after it has been declared contrary to Holy Scripture. He was required to "abjure, curse and detest" those opinions. He was subsequently sentenced to formal imprisonment at the pleasure of the Inquisition. His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future.
"From God's perspective human beings and Earth may be the center of the universe."
Can you get any more haughty? Is Christian hubris this high?
Hey AE
And laws of Association say otherwise..................you know the red horn-y beast deal.
@ David
–How many "mistakes" does religion get before you realize it's full of feces?–
Religion is produced by people. It is people, not religion, that make the mistakes.
We have plenty examples of governments without religion or people entirely free of all religious ties that make such horrible mistakes.
People are full of feces. Can you name one group of people that aren't?
I've seen plenty of followers of Jesus Christ who support, finance, learn about and teach science. So not all reject science. Or wish to hide from the true undestanding of God's creation.
“Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe.”
― Galileo Galilei
"And then there is the size theory... We’re a lot smaller than galaxies and the universe. We’re a lot bigger than the really small size scale of atoms and the interiors of atoms. Perhaps we are right in the center of universal size?"
One major problem with that AE, we are not the smallest solar system to exist nor is our galaxy the smallest, so at best we would be in the "middle size" along with trillions of other equally matched size bodies.
It just amazes me at the leaps of logic a Christian will take in order to make his beliefs sound more realistic. It's a shame that they only make themselves look even sillier.
@ Roger
- the point is that Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy", -
Yea, he was.
And it turns out those people persecuting him were dead wrong. And they were acting out of fear. For no good reason.
They certainly didn't seem to be doing what Jesus Christ asks of them.
Galileo is a person, a real life Christian even, that I believe got it right.
@bostontola
An interesting take on one of the many types of cognitive dissonance specific to christards.
I hadn't thought of it in just those two terms before the way you put them, having been too long an ex-christard.
Being born "into sin" was sometimes assumed to also be a "choice", according to whoever was speaking or was logically implied without stepping over into saying so outright, but the implication was always there. Yes.
Funny how being born becomes something worthy of eternal torture and how such an idea, clumsily grasped, can provide further distortions in reasoning and logic allowing all bigotry a baseless base from which to arise within the brain, since it is never really discussed in a reasonable way it is never totally dismissed from within a person's reasoning and festers until all the yuck comes oozing out everywhere from a christard over time.
"Religion is produced by people. It is people, not religion, that make the mistakes."
Exactly, religion and the Gods they worship were produced by people and they make mistakes. Christians believe humans created all the other God's that people have ever worshiped throughout history, they are just unwilling to admit that theirs was also invented just like they have decided Allah or Odin were invented.
@ David
That is why I said "perhaps"...
And I didn't mean our solar system. I mean our average human bodies. They may just be close to or near the center of sizes.
"It just amazes me at the leaps of logic a Christian will take in order to make his beliefs sound more realistic. It's a shame that they only make themselves look even sillier."
I'm trying to create a dialogue about what the center of the universe might mean.
The Bible is to be read from God's perspective, not ours. So what we think it says and what it really means may be 2 different things.
But, then again, The Bible never says that the Earth is in the center of the physcial universe.
David
It is because a lot of these people will accept psuedo-science as if it were science. They listen to these ridiculous broadcasts , etc. that tell them that science has shown this and that, but that is from people who do not understand science and scientific method. try having them explain what they reguritate and you will find they understand nothing, doubtful they can comprehend.
What will happen to all religions when life is confirmed on other planets? I can't wait for the excuses to start flying. The bibole has already been proven wrong by various sciences, yet they continue to believe in their own ignorance, rather than try to comprhend the facts.
"The Bible is to be read from God's perspective, not ours."
And how many humans are able to accomplish this feat of reading the bible "from God's perspective"?
Would that not mean you are claiming to know the mind of God? I do believe you know the mind of your God, for that is the only place he resides, in your mind.
" they continue to believe in their own ignorance, rather than try to comprehend"
I love that
Hey AE
The bible is BS !!!
Biblical Marriage Not Defined Simply As One Man, One Woman: Iowa Religious Scholars' Op-Ed
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/06/biblical-marriage-iowa-scholars-op-ed_n_3397304.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular
The scholars in Iowa ................go figure.................as the trail goes through the forest............on the way to Grandma's
@ David
- Christians believe humans created all the other God's that people have ever worshiped throughout history, they are just unwilling to admit that theirs was also invented just like they have decided Allah or Odin were invented.-
Jesus Christ said He did not come here to start a religion. He came to start a relationship.
It doesn't appear that man produced Jesus Christ.
What kind of God suffers and dies? What kind of God is abandoned by his closest friends?
If you are going to make up or produce a God – why Jesus Christ?
If He is not real and living I can't imagine his story would even be relevant today.
@ David
–And how many humans are able to accomplish this feat of reading the bible "from God's perspective"?–
I don't know. Probably not many. I can't. I need help to do so.
I've heard it helps to be humble and poor.
- Would that not mean you are claiming to know the mind of God? I do believe you know the mind of your God, for that is the only place he resides, in your mind. -
Jesus Christ claims to know the mind of God. I've learned from His parables and stories.
"The Kindgom of God is within" Jesus Christ.
"What will happen to all religions when life is confirmed on other planets? I can't wait for the excuses to start flying."
They will do the same thing they always do when faced with facts, dodge, lie, obfuscate. You will hear "Hey, the bible never said God DIDN'T make life on other planets!"
When faced with the actual age of the earth they said "Well the bible didn't mean literal days, they were just figures of speach to denote a longer time period, as it says later a day is as a thousand years!" Yes, but the earth is nearly 4.5 billion years old. You are saying God spent 4.499999 billion years making everything in the universe just for us to enjoy for the last few minutes humans have supposedly existed on the scale of time? Really?
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_historical_existence_of_Jesus_Christ
Bill D
You should. You are a prime example of that very phenomena.
Have you figured out how to explain the FACT that all humans have neanderthal DNA in our genes...a race that could not exist if the bible were true?
Start with that one Bill and get back to me ( of course the only real answer is the bible is wrong, but let's see you have a go at it.
Have you figured out how the volume of the earths water was expanded and then contracted to the level required ( about 23 feet taller than the highest mountain), Where all the water came from and what pushed much of it from the earth, what replaced the water when it was forced from the earth?
All of these things are of course impossible, and did not happen.
@David
I have a question for you and full disclosure, I'm an atheist, but I just wanted to get your thoughts on the possibility.
Suppose we do find life on other planets and that life is sentient:
1. If they looked and were biologically completely different from every thing here on earth (Nitrogen based life forms instead of carbon based life forms for instance) – How do you suppose that would fit in with religions?
2. On the flip side, what if we found life on other planets or, even more, life found us and they looked incredibly human and shared a crazy amount of similarities with our dna. Even more, what if they too had a god myth and it was very similar to that of the jesus christ story?
#1 seems to have a pretty simple answer. Life on other planets has a huge impact on religion, none of it good. #2 however would give me pause. If a species, especially an advanced one, had similar stories to ours and also insisted on a god similar to that of the bible, could that be construed as some evidence that a god exists and that its the one from the bible?
"I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd."
John 10:16
other sheep = aliens?????
AE: "And it turns out those people persecuting him were dead wrong. And they were acting out of fear. For no good reason.
They certainly didn't seem to be doing what Jesus Christ asks of them."
Ah the good ole knowing what Jesus would do dance. I see you know that one, too, AE.
Which of the ~40,000 conflicting sects do you represent, AE, that you think you speak for anyone?
@ Richard Cranium
Your *FACT* has serious scientific *DOUBTS*.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/feb/04/neanderthals-modern-humans-research
"A new finding has cast doubt on the theory that ancestors of modern humans interbred with Neanderthals over thousands of years. Scientists have re-dated fossil bones from two sites in southern Spain and discovered they are much older than previously thought.
According to the new evidence, it is unlikely Neanderthals and modern humans ever lived together in the region. Researchers now think the Neanderthals had long gone before the arrival of the first H.mo sapiens."
Ginger: there are heteros that have anal, and there are gay women, which people seem to ignore; you know the revulsion you feel for gay sex? That is the EXACT revulsion gay people feel for hetero se.
It's not that complicated.
Nor is it that complicated to be more accepting of other people who feel differently than you do.
Do you think being hetero is a "lifestyle"?
@Chuckles
There are bound to be many semi-intelligent species of life in the universe similar to us in that their organic brains are also subject to a host of perceptual biases left over from previous steps in their evolutionary progression to that state, just like we have as humans.
We are evolved from omnivorous predators. Our brain structures are based upon how our species evolved from primitive worms living in the oceans, with limbic systems becoming mutated simply because such things survived to further evolve in random ways mostly affected by our environment and basically random chance.
There is no direction to evolution. Please get this through your head. Our ability to think is not limited to our species.
@AE
That's stretching it to put it lightly. The context is strictly about the other israelites.
Keep in mind, Jesus strictly came back to be the messiah for the israelites, it was only later after the crucifixtion and when Paul got brought into the fold that he came up with the (admittedly brilliant) idea to include the gentiles. THe israelites had already judged jesus to be a fraud, like the frauds before him, and the main body of Judaism moved on without him, but Paul saw the potential in converting people who had no preconceptions of what the messiah had to look like and they molded them like silly putty.
Yawn. Nothing more boring than fundies trying to dance. It's quite pathetic.
@ mama k
- Ah the good ole knowing what Jesus would do dance. I see you know that one, too, AE.–
I can't find anything said that supports persecuting someone.
I know Jesus by what he says.
Forgiving someone over and over? Yes.
Turning the other cheek? Yes.
Walking the extra mile? Yes.
Having an open mind? Yes.
@AE
That's stretching it to put it lightly. The context is strictly about the other israelites.
I know. 🙂
@Ah So
Why the hostility? It was just a simple hypothetical. Like I stated at the beginning of my post. I'm an atheist and have thus far not come across a single modic.um of evidence to show that any god or gods exist at the present. I'm also aware of how evolution works and find it beautiful.
My question wasn't that it would be surprising if we came in contact with an extraterrestrial race that had a religion of their own (it would only be slightly surprising given that I personally believe in order to jump to the next stage where we can travel the stars, we must get rid of the one thing that holds back sceintific progress: religion).
What would be shocking however is if this alien race had an incredibly similar story to that found in the bible complete with a single god, a jesus, some miracles, some parables, etc.... It would be the similarity of religions between alien races in this hypothetical that would truely shock me and at least make me question if that would be a solid point of evidence for the religious.
Same stands if the alien race had a similar story to islam, or shinto, or zoroastrianism, or hell even scientology.
LOL – "having an open mind" (while ignoring science). Good one, AE.
@Chuckles
I was not being hostile, but am just trying to point out that you are basically willing to conflate any similar cognitive errors such as we have as humans as being significant in any way in religious terms, should it happen that we encounter some alien species that also has idiots who think imaginary stuff is real.
Just trying to bring your unreasonable and illogical implications to the fore and point them out as being illogical.
Alien religitards give zero credence to any religion. There are no gods, period.
Any aliens that had similar nonsense in their culture would likely be just as messed up as we are in terms of cognitive abilities.
Just sayin.
AE,
"I know Jesus by what he says.
Forgiving someone over and over? Yes.
Turning the other cheek? Yes.
Walking the extra mile? Yes.
Having an open mind? Yes."
These are all very nice ideas. They did not, however, originate with Jesus (or his alleged chroniclers), nor are they unique to him.
I'm not espousing Buddhism, but his philosophy long predates the ideas which Jesus is credited as saying.
"When you forgive me for harming you, you decide not to retaliate, to seek no revenge. You don’t have to like me. You simply unburden yourself of the weight of resentment and cut the cycle of retribution that would otherwise keep us ensnarled in an ugly samsaric wrestling match. This is a gift you can give us both, totally on your own, without my having to know or understand what you’ve done."
And here's one in your favorite parable form:
http://www.youaretrulyloved.com/enlightenment/the-buddha-teaches-a-lesson-on-forgiveness/
(yeah, Buddha had "disciples" too...)
@AE
Here's the problem you have to reconcile.
If you are aware that Jesus specifically spoke just to the israelites and many of his various parables were meant for israelites, then you would know the "having an open mind" and "turning the other cheek" and "loving one another" was also just for jews and he was totally fine with killing non-jews, fighting back against non jews and being completely closed minded when it came to other religions.
Seems to me you're cherry picking jesus and not even recognizing that if you were to truely follow your jesus, you would convert to messianic judaism (at the very least) and not tolerate any other religion out there including pauline christianity which is masquarading as followers of jesus.
@Ah So
I think it's unfair to discount the similarities of two completely separated societies by light years as nonesense on both sides. That goes against scientific method.
For instance, if 5 people have visions of the vi.rg.in mary and when asked, separately, to describe what they saw and they all stressed the same details and described her all the exact same way, I would be very interested to learn more about the events that unfolded before these hal.luci.nat.ions. It wouldn't be slam dunk evidence that it happened, but it would at least warrent further investigation.
As for saying there are absolutely no way god(s) can exist, I don't think it's fair to make that absolutist claim only by virtue of how this god is described. Now, before I go any further I believe god falls into the same claims that santa, the easter bunny and other imaginary creatures that exist. Sure, all of these could exist and do the things that are purported to that they do, it's just so unlikely that it doesn't warrent investigation into the matter nor should it be taken seriously.
Until we can search literally every single atom in the entire universe we can't really say that god absolutely, 100% does not exist, we can hold though that there is a 99.99% chance that he probably doesn't exist. Saavy?
@Chuckles
I should add that I am mostly reacting to your "shock" as you so quaintly put it, as being expected by you should similar idiots abound in the universe...and I'm sure they do. There are enough likely lifeforms that there will likely be many who have very similar mistakes in their thinking. No shock needed or called for. That's all.
@Chuckles
I see you posted a new response. Okay, here goes:
You are engaging in a perceptual bias, a fallacious bit of reasoning, and you have no reasonable argument as to thinking some other species' mental idiocy to be significant in any way whatsoever beyond the mere biological curiosity of their neurological problems specific to them.
This fallacious reasoning of yours is quite ridiculous. Please examine your precursor assumptions and get a clue.
Similar lack of reasoning skills means nothing as to the credibility of the errors themselves.
I'm starting to get hostile now. I may drop an f-bomb or two if you keep this up.
Ah So,
Ooooh – lifeforms! I can't help but hum this from Star Trek:
[Data, with his new emotion chip installed, is told to scan for life forms]
Data: I would be happy to, sir. I just *love* scanning for life forms!
[sings]
Life forms! You tiny little life forms!
You precious little life forms!
Where are you?
@Ah So
If another alien race had religion of their own, it would only be mildly surprising. In my personal opinion, if we ever actually come into contact with other alien species and it is they, with superior technology, who contact us, the idea that a religion were pervade their society seems unlikely as I'm sure you and I are both aware that religion is mostly divisive and an impediment to progress.
However, how would you not be shocked even in the slightest if an alien race had a similar or almost identical religion to one of ours on earth. That would be crazy (and I think thats even an understatement). To just dismiss that out of hand because you think religion is complete nonesense is spitting in the face of of logic in favor of pure bias.
@OTOH
I think you might have quoted my all time favorite moment in the Next Gen Star Trek movies.
Data is by far and away my fave star trek character to ever grace the airwaves.
@Chuckles
You continue to conflate any similarity 'automatically' as being significant.
This is called 'confirmation bias'.
If you are too stupid to understand the logical fallacy you are engaging in, then I won't bother trying to point out your fallacious reasoning skills any longer. You are being an idiot. Just sayin.
Chuckles,
Yep. Data is a gem, all right. Priceless!
@Ah So
I am aware I am using a fair amount of supposition to get to a specific hypothetical, but that is not confirmation bias. I have outlined a case and you continually jump to a conclusion without even acknowledging that further investigation is warrented.
I have a couple of cases for you, also hypothetical because they have yet to actually happen:
1. 6 people in 6 separate countries all over the world have similar visions of god. They all describe the character they saw in this vision down to the color hair this god has. Does that not warrent further investigation into a) why these specific people received the vision b) does it confirm a specific religion or just that a deity has a greater chance of existing?
2. A person is brought into the ER after suffering a car crash. They are unconcious when they are wheeled into the ER and brought into the operating theater. At the top of the theater and out of sight from the patient the entire time they are there, there is a random number generator of 4 digits at the top. During surgery, the patient flatlines and is technically "dead" for a certain amount of minutes. The patient is then brought back to life and later during recovery describes an out of body experience, watching the surgery occur and then lists the 4 digits on the other side of the room. Would that not warrent further investigation? Does that imply there is some sort of conscousness that can exist outside the body?
I think you're letting your contempt for religion to get in the way of even entertaining a complete hypothetical which hurts your postion rather than aids it. I'm an atheist simply because of all the evidence I've been presented with thus far has in no way even remotely implied a god exists, let alone a god from one of the many many man made religions out there today. However, if presented with new evidence, I am more than able to adapt and even change that conclusion if provided with evidence to the contrary.
Why are you an atheist and why do these hypothetical situations upset you so much?
AE
You pointed to a dispute of how neandertahal DNA didn't get included in human DNA, But that article doesn't change the FACT that neanderthals existed, which proves the bible wrong.
Nice try at a deflection, another smoke screen, but again, you cannot dispute the FACTS disprove the bible.
"#2 however would give me pause. If a species, especially an advanced one, had similar stories to ours and also insisted on a god similar to that of the bible, could that be construed as some evidence that a god exists and that its the one from the bible?"
First, I think if they had IDENTICAL versions of Jesus and the biblical doctrine matched the aliens exactly, then I would say you have made a case. However, having something "similar" only indicates that they evolved in a similar manner and are at a similar stage of understanding the universe. If either were getting actual "divine" instruction you would think those instructions would line up pretty well, unless it was coming from a different source. Could it be that our God's, if they exist, are confined to our solar system? Would then other systems have differen God's?
Second, would their books also indicate that the entire universe was made for them? If so, how would that reconcile with believers? Would that start a new holy crusade to another galaxy to battle the infidels who claim God made the universe for them?
@Chuckles
You continue to sound like the most close-minded fundie that ever was.
Confirmation bias all the way with all of your scenarios.
I am not the one being close-minded here. It is you.
There is no magic anything. If you have never understood this, then you are a supernaturalist fundie and you can just go fuck yourself with your continuous confirmation bias. Just sayin.
@ Richard
There is a lot we don't know about Neanderthals.
What do you think of Genesis 6:4?
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."
http://biblehub.com/genesis/6-4.htm
AE,
Neanderthals were somewhat smaller than humans, not "giants":
Size: males: about 5 feet 4½ inches (165 centimeters), 185 pounds; females: 5 feet 2 inches, 145 pounds
http://factsanddetails.com/world.php?itemid=1477&catid=56
giants—The term in Hebrew implies not so much the idea of great stature as of reckless ferocity, impious and daring characters, who spread devastation and carnage far and wide.
AE
neanderthals were not giants.
@David
Thanks for answering the question
@Ah So
I'm confused here. I say that when provided with new evidence I would be more than happy to adapt and that somehow makes me a closed-minded fundie supernaturalist? Really?
At first you sounded like you were capable of thought but this just might be an elaborate trolling, I'm not sure. I would urge you to actually use your brain though instead of stamping your foot and throwing a hissy fit whenever someone makes a moderate point. It'll probably serve you well in the future.
@AE
Neandrathals were anything but fercoious or spread any devastation. The reason why they died out is because they lacked the hostility thats found in Ho.mo Sapians.
Regardless of how you frame the term giant, whether a stature thing or a mindset thing, the neandrathals were exactly the opposite. They were herbovourous, peaceful species that were killed off because they lacked the wherewithal to defend themselves against their cousins.
@Chuckles
Every scenario you give is an example of confirmation bias and then you turn around and say you're not using confirmation bias.
Your continual denial of bias shows you have no desire to interpret any data in an objective way, but can be expected to use whatever data comes in to confirm your biases, so I don't understand why you bother asking for evidence besides the fact that you seem to think magic is possible or that we are in a 'matrix' computer program.
Such ridiculous positions can only be met with scorn, Chuckles. Did you think you were immune to criticism or something?
That's a laugh, laughing boy. You are a closet fundie. Time to come out of that closet there. Come on. Don't be shy.
@Chuckles
"Regardless of how you frame the term giant, whether a stature thing or a mindset thing, the neandrathals were exactly the opposite. They were herbovourous, peaceful species that were killed off because they lacked the wherewithal to defend themselves against their cousins."
Such bullshit. Where did you come up with that tripe? See how messed up you are in the head? I do.
Someone as deep in the fundie closet as you is probably a lost cause. Such is life.
@Ah So
I'm honestly perplexed here. Saying I have confirmation bias (which I don't), calling me a closeted fundie, saying I'm closed minded and then making fun of a theory that Sam Harris postulates ....
So lets take a look at what I presented and see who's using confirmation bias and is the fundementalist here.
1. I give a hypothetical situation full of suppostion which asks that if aliens came to this planet or even just got in contact with us and revealed they had an incredibly similar or even identical bible to our own, how would you react?
a. My reaction is that of shock as I assume aliens would be beyond religion, all religion let alone one that mirrors something on earth so closely. I allow the initial claims might not be as crazy as they might initially sound and believe that the claims that match between both human and alien warrent further investigation
b. your reaction is that of scorn. You assume that god absolutely 100% does not exist and so without doing any further investigation decide that now the aliens AND the humans must not be that intelligent, you confirm your own conclusion (see what I did there?) that god can't, in no possible way, exist and thus it is the aliens that are wrong.
Notice how I neither pass judgement one way or the other and believe that the claims went from ridiculous and not worth my time of serious investigation to still be ridiculous but at least worth a further amout of investigation. You on the other hand take the hard line of absolutely not accepting anything at face value and draw a conclusion immediately.
So, please show me who's the confirmation bias using fundementalist again?
@Ah So
So.... you know of incredibly violent, carnivorous really neadrathals that existed in history and fought back but still died out anyway? I'd be fascinated to know how you came to that conclusion and the sources you used...
@Chuckles
Nice try, but I never said any of that.
You are the gullible idiot, swallowing whole what is merely asserted by aliens in your scenario. I am not that gullible, thanks.
Why do you not allow for the fact that their words about a god are as useless and empty as human words about a god?
Why do you not allow for the possibility that they are deliberately lying about having a religion when they are the ones visiting us and can already take note of our religions here and use that information in fabricating a religion to fool people like you?
There are no gods, Chuckles. Your 0.0000000000000001 percent "maybe" stance is baseless. You have no credible argument as to that tiny fraction of possibility. Your religious fundamentalism is theistic and based solely on your tiny fraction of a belief in the possibility despite all evidence to the contrary. But perhaps you haven't taken the time to evaluate your many faulty premises.
As to the neanderthal thing, you state most firmly that: "the neandrathals were exactly the opposite. They were herbovourous, peaceful species that were killed off because they lacked the wherewithal to defend themselves against their cousins."
Yet you have no proof of such. You don't know that they were, in fact, exactly the opposite.
You don't know for a fact that they were herbivores, peaceful, or even that they were killed off because of some "lack of wherewithal to defend themselves." TOTAL BULLSHlT THERE.
Either provide peer-reviewed studies showing this to be the case or you can try and walk it back. I don't care much what you do with being caught in a lie, so I guess we'll see, won't we?
@Ah So
"Why do you not allow for the fact that their words about a god are as useless and empty as human words about a god?Why do you not allow for the possibility that they are deliberately lying about having a religion when they are the ones visiting us and can already take note of our religions here and use that information in fabricating a religion to fool people like you?"
- Well considering all those questions fall on the "investigation" phase I guess I would find that out huh? I'm still a little confused how you arrived at the "Chuckles has proposed a really weird unique hypothetical thus he's a fundementalist christian!" you're going to have to go through that logic with me because I missed a couple of your bigger leaps.
There are no gods, Chuckles. Your 0.0000000000000001 percent "maybe" stance is baseless."
- Why exactly? Have you searched every single atom in the entire universe? Please, show me how you did because I'd love to recreate that. Until then I guess the .0000000000001% makes more sense than dealing in absolutes (you know only si.th deal in absolutes right?). Like I've mentioned a whole lot of times now, I'm an atheist, god or gods most likely don't exist in any way, shape or form however if presented with em.p.ir.ac.le evidence to the contrary that is repeatable and believable I'd be willing to change my stance on the matter. That's what makes me better than you and why people like you give atheists a bad name.
" Yet you have no proof of such. You don't know that they were, in fact, exactly the opposite.
You don't know for a fact that they were herbivores, peaceful, or even that they were killed off because of some "lack of wherewithal to defend themselves." TOTAL BUL.LSH.lT THERE.
- Well lets see here. We have some neandrathal skulls that shows their teeth were duller and were used more in eating ve.geta.tion instead of the ca.rniv.orous teeth that are used to bite into meat. but forgive me, they were more likly closer to us being om.niv.orous, so for that I'm SO sorry for pointing out that they were eating veggies before man was, I'm the liar I guess....We also have theorized that it was the neandrathals lack of hostil.ity that they died out in the first place. Whether it was because they couldn't defend themselves against their ho.mo sapien brethern or just let themselves slowly fade into extinction, whos to know? What I pointed out however is that how AE is using giant can not apply to neandrathals. They weren't violent (or at least they were less violent than man) they were shorter, they ate more vegetation – they weren't giants.
Here are a couple of sources, though (and I don't want to overload your little mind too much) there's this amazing thing called google, you can plug in questions and it feeds you answers like some sort of magic machine! Feel free to use it once in a while
http://www.livescience.com/28036-neanderthals-facts-about-our-extinct-human-relatives.html
http://hum.anorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fos.sils/species/ho.mo-neanderthalensis
@Chuckles
Yep, you tried walking it back. I'm so not impressed.
You said, "– Well considering all those questions fall on the "investigation" phase I guess I would find that out huh? I'm still a little confused how you arrived at the "Chuckles has proposed a really weird unique hypothetical thus he's a fundementalist christian!" you're going to have to go through that logic with me because I missed a couple of your bigger leaps. "
So you enjoy putting words in my mouth I never said. Well done. You get today's d-bag award.
You also said, in part, "..Like I've mentioned a whole lot of times now, I'm an atheist, god or gods most likely don't exist in any way, shape or form however if presented with em.p.ir.ac.le evidence to the contrary that is repeatable and believable I'd be willing to change my stance on the matter. That's what makes me better than you and why people like you give atheists a bad name."
Better than me, eh? Because you don't understand neurobiological functions? How does that make you superior? It doesn't.
Your ignorance is not helping you argue, so maybe you should try a different method of arguing.
As to seeing every atom or whatever your bs argument, you are the one making the claim here. That's why I asked to you back up your baseless assertions about these false probabilities and explain why they are credible in any way.
You make the assertion of the possibility = therefore you are the one who needs to back that up with evidence that your possibilities are real and not just imaginary constructs you made up for your strawman arguments.
Eh? What's that? You should speak up from way back in that corner, there, Chuckles. You are saying something baseless or you can cough up some base for your assertions.
Either you have a basis for saying there is a possibility or you don't. And since I know you don't, I expect nothing but more static from you, as you already have the d-bag award.
@Ah So
"Your religious fundamentalism is theistic " – 5:45PM
"So you enjoy putting words in my mouth I never said. Well done." – 6:27 PM
- Um.......
"Better than me, eh? Because you don't understand neurobiological functions? How does that make you superior? It doesn't.
Your ignorance is not helping you argue, so maybe you should try a different method of arguing."
- I am better than you, that isn't up for debate. I've already repeated a couple of times my own line of reasoning, you then decide to say I'm committing confirmation bias without (and here's the important part Ace) actually quoting or even showing me where I'm doing this, so yeah, I'm better than you (fact) and no pretty sure my method (the right method) is helping me just fine.
"As to seeing every atom or whatever your bs argument, you are the one making the claim here"
- And what claim was that exactly? That .000000001% is unknown variable that hasn't been proven yet? Can you please show me how you've come to 100% certainty that you are right? I'd love to see how you arrived there. Is it the old canard that there is no evidence of god and that the christians making the claim have yet to provide the positive evidence proving their claim? If that's the case, then you are discounting the fact that their claim is still entirely provable if correct. If this god of theirs does exist and sends down a burning bush tomorrow you're going to feel awfully silly huh? Now what's the liklihood that will happen? Unlikely enough that even entertaining the very idea is laughable on its face so I won't pretend like the christians make an even remotely logical claim but I am also very aware that I can't say, with 100% certainty, ANYTHING about this universe. Take black holes for instance. Black holes are a way for nature to lay ground rules and then completely fu.ck with them. Time, space, gravity, light, all of that sh.it gets thrown out the window when it comes to black holes.
But hey, I'm sure your you're too busy fu.cking your mom to actually learn things so I'm happy to help. Thanks for the award by the way, considering it's coming from you I guess I still have a lot left for you to teach me before becoming a presenter at the d-bag awards huh?
@Chuckles
No, you quoted me as saying this: "Chuckles has proposed a really weird unique hypothetical thus he's a fundementalist christian!"
Show where I said that. Anywhere. You can't. So you really did put words in my mouth and by lying about it you show yourself to be way way way down below me on the scale.
Proven: Chuckles = Liar
Now if your pants would only burst into flame my day would be complete. 😀
You sound really mad now, too. I guess you're not ready for prime-time today. The juvenile insults do not make you look good, either. Maybe you should just shut the fuck up about shit you know absolutely nothing about, like black holes, where you show your ignorance for all to see and claim certainty about things you know nothing about.
I guess that's what you're good at, huh? Making baseless and false assertions, lying your ass off and insulting those who catch you at it. So mature. So intelligent and calm. You make us all proud.
@Ah So
Gotcha, so I repeat that I'm an atheist a fair amount of time and you continue to call me a fundementalist theist, I type christian instead and I'm the proven liar. Gotcha. It's great to see such a small mind in action. A for effort buddy.
And really mad now? Hardly. It's hard to get really mad at the mentally retar.ded such as yourself. Sure, I've used some insulting language, but I guess truth hurts, huh kid?
Considering you haven't denied fu.cking your mom I guess I can now say with certainty that you really are a motherfu.cker. Also, that sh.it is gross and you should probably stop.
It's cute though you keep calling me a liar that makes baseless assertion, it's really just adorable. Keep going, I've been bored at work all day and it's been awhile since I cleaned the floor on this blog with someone like you so that was fun.
Thanks for the laughs champ!
Ah Soul, what's your problem?
@Chuckles
Where have I been as offensive and gross as you? Nowhere.
You just get louder and more disgusting. The wheels came off your trailer long ago, it seems.
Where have you refuted anything I have said in a rational or logical way? Nowhere. You still fail to win an argument no matter how hard you laugh and how insulting you get.
Claiming a win is a kid's ploy, and the insults are beyond acceptable.
You can claim whatever you want a billion times and it does not become more true for all of that.
You've lost all credibility whatsoever. I can't imagine anyone wanting to chime in on your side now.
Gosh, isn't that just a darn shame.
I'm really surprised the fundiots do NOT believe that the sun revolves around the earth. I mean, hey, it's what your eyes tell you, right? Rises in the east, travels across the sky, sets in the west.
@The real Tom
My problem? Could you elaborate?
Did you want to be extremely offensive too? Just curious.
"Please get this through your head." (1:34)
I think we can all pretty easily see when Mr pompous Ahzz So started acting like an azz.
@Ah So
Offensive and gross? Sure, I'll own up to that. I went a little overboard, but like I said, it's been a while since I got to stretch my legs on this blog and you presented yourself like a bear in heat.
As we can see though I think we've now had two people speak up asking what your problem is and why you decided to go on the defensive first.
I don't want you to cry, but if you've got an issue, here's a tissue kid. Wipe those tears from your eyes, I understand it's embarrassing to get publicly humiliated but I hope at least some good can come from this and you'll learn to keep your mouth shut once and a while and learn.
How immature and how low can you go? Well just keep on there and we'll know, won't we?
Look, kids, I'd love to stay and play but I've got big adult things to do now. Keep on showing your true age. It's priceless.
What a poser. Bloviate elsewhere, cretin.
Hey, Tom. I love you, too. You're so sweet and kind.
Thanks for taking the liar's side. It shows your true colors in a way I never would have seen otherwise.
Priceless.
Azzz Hole, suck my left pinkie toe, you turd. You're nothing more than a wind-bag. Go do your "adult things", honey. We're all just ever so impressed.
Didn't you say you needed to go do the adultery thing or something? Ah so, back so soon?
looks like wittle bittie kiddie got his feels hurt ... go do your adult things, I'm sure everyone on here is duly impressed by how adult you are, with your adult things and your adult words. Did I mention how much of an adult you were for being such a big boy. I bet mommy gave you two whole dollars this week because you're such an adult.
What a long goddam thread this is. Why don't you people shut the hell up already? And stay off my lawn!
After reading through this thread it seems that Ah So should have awarded himself the d bag of the day award.
I'm waiting to see what happens when the BSA pushes for leaders in the Baptist church to resign.
B
Poster bigdakine below tells HeavenSent "You do know that the Church put Gallileo under house arrest, don't you?"
Very true. The church didn't like being told that its science was out of date. That's similar to situations that we see today with the SBC, the RCC and any other religious sect whose tenets continue to ignore current science.
Even in some of the most tolerant posts on this subject, people refer to being gay as a "lifestyle".
Current psychology and biology both tell us differently. Read about epigenetics. It's not new although there was a very interesting recently article relating to homosexuality in last December's Quarterly Review of Biology. We've known about the evidence of epigenetics in nature for quite some time.
Read about epigenetics and aphids:
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/gri/2012/431531/
Read about this recent post:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130509123647.htm
Read something! Don't just stay ignorant!
–The earth is not flat
–The earth is not the center of the universe
–Being gay is not a choice
(recent article)
mama k.............agree a great place to learn the truth about evolution and the metal universe.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/11/my-take-gay-christian-is-not-an-oxymoron/comment-page-17/#comment-2340253
Comedy gold Vicky...................do not even have to look ...............what a joke your link.
Plan below to yank your faith or find a couple of chondrites.
Lol – well "Vicky" proves my point really – about some choosing to remain ignorant that is.
Vic
What is your oint. There is no "gay Gene", that we know of yet...Epigenetics does have a great deal of effect...Certain hormones at certain times will dictate the $exuality.
There are physiological differences in a female brain and a male brain. Occassionally a male body gets paired with a female brain and vice-versa. It has to do with hormaones, so you have genetics, epigenetics, biology and most importantly bio-chemistry involved.
Get more education and stop jumping to conclusion
The science is self-explainatory...there is no choice involved. The body once fully formed, will react to what it reacts to...there is no thought process involved.
Being gay is a choice..Often forced. Beign gay has nothing to do with the world being round.
Are you choosing to be straight GingerAle?
yep.. Sure am. Folks raised us right.
I chose to be straight after I gave my tenth BJ. I decided it just wasn't for me.
nah that's your and davids "job"
GingerAzz............. another hom ophobic nut bag.
fintastic ..Another bathouse fop
Claim: "Ginger Ale" has no facts.
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So if you are "choosing" to be straight then who are you attracted to naturally? Nothing? Sheep? Microwaved Melons? To have to make a conscious choice to be straight means you are not naturally straight, so which is it? Stuffed animals? Hole's in barn walls?
Ginger Ale, a man of great will power! Despite the urges to cuddle up with a clean shaven and waxed man – he resists.
How else could he know that being g.y is a choice?
When AE or Ginger come up with any bright ideas, please wake me; lol.
The only choice involved with being gay is the choice to deny your feelings and become a hom.ophobe. When men are put in a brain scanner and shown hom.oerotic images – the only men to respond in any fashion are gay men and self described hom.ophobes. I contend that you, Ginger Ale, are in fact gay and in denial.
Re: "Affiliating with Scout troops also provides an avenue for evangelism, said Pastor David Uth of Orlando.
“We are very happy to partner (with Scouts) because it gives us access to more families and more boys to share the life-saving gospel of Jesus Christ.”"
And the truth comes out. It's all about market share in the dead jew zombie vampire cannibal death cult aka christianity.
It's always been about market share, without recruiting the young the church would wade away (like all other religions).
HotAirAce.................fox 13 news in Seatle...........posted about 13 hours ago...........from bing
http://fox13now.com/2013/06/12/baptist-group-urges-ouster-of-boy-scout-execs/
"gives us access....." somehow those are very scary words......
Heavensent
You do know that the Church put Gallileo under house arrest, don't you?
Galileo was always kidding around. Once he forgot his hat at his mistresses house and we had to pretend to be crofters to get it back. Those were the days.