 |
|
|
|
|
June 13th, 2013
02:15 PM ET
The pope said what? Six stunners from FrancisBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) –Pope Francis has challenged his flock of 1 billion Catholics not to be “starched Christians” who chat about theology over tea. He’s been taking his own advice. Since his election in March, Francis has delivered sharp and unscripted remarks on everything from homosexuality to atheism to his unlikely election to the seat of St. Peter. Anyone who bet the 76-year-old Jesuit from Argentina would become Supreme Pontiff likely won a lot of dough, Francis joked on Sunday. We’re wagering this pope’s got a few more surprises up the sleeves of his white cassock. Meanwhile, here are six eye-openers Francis has uttered thus far. 1) There’s a “gay lobby” inside the Vatican Meeting with Catholic leaders from his native Latin America and the Caribbean on Sunday, the pope said that there’s a lot of holy people in the Curia, Catholicism’s Rome-based bureaucracy. But there is also a “stream of corruption,” Francis said, including a “gay lobby.” "We need to see what we can do," he added, somewhat cryptically. Only the pope knows exactly what he means. The Vatican has clammed up, refusing to explain. Catholic experts believe Francis was referring to a secret dossier presented to his predecessor Pope Benedict XVI that investigated a series of embarrassing leaks from Vatican insiders to Italian journalists. The dossier referred to a Vatican network of sexually active gay clergy who might have been subject to blackmail, according to Italian reports. 2) All atheists go to heaven? During a homily in Rome on May 22, Francis said that God redeems everyone – not just Christians, but atheists, as well. “We must meet one another doing good,” the pope said. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.” So, was the pope saying that people can go to heaven, even if they don’t believe in God? Probably not, say church experts. Catholicism has long held that salvation is open to everyone – but with a really big caveat. If you know about the church and don’t become a member, the door to heaven is likely closed, a Catholic spokesman later clarified. Many American atheists say they appreciated the olive branch from the pope, however unclear his remarks may have been. 3) “I didn’t want to be pope” Meeting with Catholic students from Italy and Albania on June 7, Francis ditched his “boring” speech and instead took questions from the children. A little redhead in a blue scarf elicited laughter by bluntly asking, “Francis, why did you want to become pope?” “I didn’t,” Francis answered. In fact, “a person who wants to become pope doesn’t love himself. And God doesn’t bless him,” the pontiff said. 4) Sleepy prayers In May, the pope shared intimate details about his spiritual life with a crowd of 200,000 people gathered in St. Peter’s Square. Every day, Francis said, he prays at an altar before he goes to bed. On occasion, the sandman arrives before the end of his prayers, the pope said. “Sometimes I doze off, the fatigue of the day makes you fall asleep, but God understands,” Francis said. 5) Christians should mind their own beeswax In some of his sharpest comments as pope, Francis criticized Christian busybodies in May. “We all chat in church,” the pope said. “As Christians we chat. “It is as if we want to put each other down,” Francis continued. “Instead of growing, one makes the other feel small while I feel great. That will not do.” Gossip, the pope said, is like honey. It tastes sweet at first, but large doses deliver stomach aches. 6) Throwing food away is stealing from the poor The first Latin American pope has made fighting poverty a top priority of his papacy. Scarcely a speech or homily ends without a mention of the homeless and disabled. On June 5, Francis lambasted a “culture of waste” in which consumerism trumps compassion, people become just another disposable object, and little care is given to those who need help. “This culture of waste has made us insensitive even to the waste and disposal of food, which is even more despicable when all over the world many individuals and families are suffering from hunger and malnutrition. ” Francis said. “We should all remember, however, that throwing food away is like stealing from the tables of the poor, the hungry.”
Next entry »Superman: Flying to a church near you
« Previous entryBig Baptist group urges ouster of Boy Scout execs
|
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
|
|
|
It's pretty obvious that traditionalists are fighting a loosing battle on the gay marriage issue. This is no different that the change in public opinion and civil law in African American or women's rights that was seen in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Traditionalists plead for conventional (and increasingly dated) values that only make sense from a religious or traditionalist viewpoint and have little validity in secular government and a scientifically progressive society.
As for the "think of the children" argument, if you define the well-being of a child based on fundamentalist and christian values, then of course the best environment for a child is with a stable, opposite-gender married couple. However, if you define a child's well-being based the standards of modern psychology and scientific metrics, then the majority of research over the past few decades implies the the effects of same-gender parenting approximate those of its opposite-gender counterpart.
Gartrell N and Bos H. "US National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study: Psychological Adjustment of 17-Year-Old Adolescents. Pediatrics. 2010;126(1):28-36." Pediatrics 126 (2010): 617.
TASKER, FIONA. "Lesbian Mothers, Gay Fathers, and Their Children: A Review." Journal of Developmental & Behavioral Pediatrics 26 (2005): 224-40.
Losing (sorry for being pedantic but I find that mistake particularly irksome).
kids just need good parents.. hetero, gay, atheist,, as long as they are good people
"Traditionalists plead for conventional (and increasingly dated) values that only make sense from a religious or traditionalist viewpoint"
I think that the term "traditionalist" only refers to a rather small section of the populace, the one right in between their parents generation disapearing while they grasp at it nostalgicly, while simultaniously being overrun by the next generation. They feel as if they are in limbo, stuck between two worlds. Thanksfully the racist, bigoted, s3xist chauvanists of the past two generations won't stick and will be replaced by true liberty and freedom for all. Nothing in the new generations laws will force any Christian to love Jesus less, but it will keep some from trying to force others to love their Jesus at all. Keep your faith where it belongs, squarely in your personal life. But there will be no "bring your faith to work" days, no "faith based legislation" and certainly no "fantasy based education" taught in public schools.
Here we have a man who is I'd say close to the common man. For to many years the Pope was sheltered from the common man an now we have him close to us, I'd like to think the good Lord made it happen in this way.
he's a con man. all voodoo and the least intelligent people buy it.
@ Doc Vestibule
You did not explained why there seems to be a correlation between the huge number a gays in churches and the r a p i n g of little boys. Whatever you will try to to say to avoid the question won't help you. Facts are facts, one hand you have a large number of gays in churches and on the other hand you have a lot of pedophile activity going on there. Any correlation?
gays aren't pedos. Pedos are pedos.
You have failed to bring forward a precise explanation about the similarity in this case.
Correlation is not causation.
There are a huge number of caucasians in the preisthood.
Does is therefore stand to reason that all white people are pedophiles?
@2sc1970
Furthermore, while the pedo priest scandal is certainly sickening, statistically speaking there aren't a disproportionate number of pedos in the priesthood.
The real issue is the way in which the Vatican traditionally handled such cases.
According to the John Jay report, 918 of 1872 (49%) substantiated allegations of abuse against Catholic clergy were addressed by sending the priest off for psychiatric counseling and then moving him to another parish, with nary a whisper to law enforcement. This number does not include priests relocated for reasons other than charges of se.xual impropriety.
1. In 1962, The Vatican relased the 'Crimen Sollicitationis', which outlined how the church is to handle accusations of se.xual impropriety against clergy.
The stickiest point for most people is that not only was the doc.ument itself Top Secret for decades, it explictly stated that anybody involved in this type of investigation, including the accuser and potential witnesses, are sworn to secrecy regarding any and all details, upon penalty of excommunication (a fate worse than death for the devout).
This preoccupation with secrecy significantly slowed the investigative process – the backlog of referrals to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for action against se.xually abusive priests is so large that it takes 18 months to get a reply.
Had the Church handed the pedophiles over to local law enforcement, they would not now be saddled with the public opinion that their primary concerns are the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the Church, and the preservation of its as.sets.
In other words, it isn't the number of pedophiles priests that is of concern, it is the criminal conspiracy that kept them hidden, protected and free to repeat their abhorrent actions.
2000 years ago, a teenage mother (Marry) married to an old man (Joseph) saved herself from stoning by claiming "immaculated conception" as a result of an angel. This was not a new claim in religious mythology. Zeus
visited maidens as a golden swan. Even though "immaculated conception" is physically impossible, over half of
the population of our planet bows to this teenage mother. A teenage lie that created a religion that has lasted 2000 years. It just shows how stupid and arrogant manking is. But you have to admitted it is a laugh riot.
You have a prehistoric women who laid down with a monkey and then came the humans from that love night..Sound any better?
@2sc1970
Wait, is this a chicken and the egg thing? You think that somehow prehistoric women was around before man? Furthermore you think they slept with monkeys? Moreover you don't know how evolution works? Yikes! It's got to be terrifying inside that brain of yours.
@Randall
Don't forget Mary must have had the most painful birth of ALL TIME considering she hadn't had her hyman broken yet due to said immaculate conception. OUCH!
Randall,
Your ignorance is astonishing..
@2sc1970,
Obviously that is not how evolution works. Individuals do not evolve, populations do.
@ IHAVESEENT THELIGHT
Why is this arrogance?...Seems pretty darn plausible in the light of evidence...or should we also say – lack of evidence.
If you believe a virgin birth happen miraculously by divine intervention.....your gullibility astonishes me.
Ok then, two monkeys laid down and then came the humans from their love night. Is that any better?
Randall,
Former believer here, but the ""immaculated conception" [sic] myth is that Mary herself was conceived/born without the mythical Original Sin. It is not the same thing as the Virgin Birth myth.
------------------------------
Chuckles,
I know you are joking, but breaking the female hymen is usually pretty easy, a bit of pain maybe, but not necessarily (some girls break them riding horses, bikes, doing gymnastics & other stuff).
correct randall.. Good honest post using sensible logic. Unfortunately the fearful, brainwashed as such, buy the joke.
The virgin birth of Jesus was added to his biography by Matthew, and Luke to make the story appear to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah. Just as Jesus made sure he entered Jerusalem on a donkey, and used the same gate that had already been prophesized the Messiah would use.
I'm not one of the people who are terribly convinced by these blatant contrivances.
@FYI
Yes... but usually the other way. Granted I'm no OBGYN but it seems to me that breaking the hyman during birth with somthing going out rather than going in would just be that much worse.
2sc1970
You probably read nothing but church propaganda, let me help. The Nature journal published an article on June 5, 2013 indicating that a fossil found in China indicates that tarisforme (monkey, ape, DNA) separated some 55 million years ago from anthropoids (Neanderthal, Humanoid, DNA) creating two separate species that evolved differently side by side. Common ancestor way back when. A little education outside of a 2000 year old book of myths could be of use to you.
Chuckles,
"breaking the hyman during birth with somthing going out rather than going in would just be that much worse."
I don't think so - same/same from either side probably.
(Maybe TMI, but my sister had an extra sturdy one (rarely happens) and had to have a little surgical procedure done in the hospital while on her honeymoon! – Now, *she* might've had a major owwwwie with a virgin birth)
@2sc1970, demonstrated his/her understanding of evolution thusly: "Ok then, two monkeys laid down and then came the humans from their love night. Is that any better?"
I would absolutely, positively not accept evolution either, if I had been similarly misinformed about how it worked.
Eru ("The One"), also called Ilúvatar ("Father of All"), first created the Ainur, a group of eternal spirits or demiurges, called "the offspring of his thought". Ilúvatar brought the Ainur together and showed them a theme, from which he bade them make a great music. Melkor — whom Ilúvatar had given the "greatest power and knowledge" of all the Ainur — broke from the harmony of the music to develop his own song. Some Ainur joined him, while others continued to follow Ilúvatar, causing discord in the music. This happened thrice, with Eru Ilúvatar successfully overpowering his rebellious subordinate with a new theme each time. Ilúvatar then stopped the music and showed them a vision of Arda and its peoples. The vision disappeared after a while, and Ilúvatar offered the Ainur a chance to enter into Arda and govern over the new world.
Many Ainur descended, taking physical form and becoming bound to that world. The greater Ainur became known as Valar, while the lesser Ainur were called Maiar. The Valar attempted to prepare the world for the coming inhabitants (Elves and Men), while Melkor, who wanted Arda for himself, repeatedly destroyed their work; this went on for thousands of years until, through waves of destruction and creation, the world took shape.
Valaquenta ("Account of the Valar") describes Melkor and each of the Valar in detail, as well as a few of the Maiar. It also reveals how Melkor seduced many Maiar — including Sauron and the Balrogs — into his service.
These are some interesting tidbits found on the Internet about some papal things.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican39.htm
fsm b jealous
I was watching Bart Erhman on the Colbert Report – what a loser!! LOL.
Care to elaborate? (that means to explain some more)
Yeah, why would anyone call Colbert a loser?
No, dummy – Erhman was the loser. Stephen had to run circles around him to help him sell his book; lol.
@Losers
I think you missed the entire point of the Colbert Report. you do know it's all satire and farce right? What Colbert says is usually a mockery of the people and values he pretends to espouse.....
Wasn't that 4 or so years ago? You really are on the cutting edge.
No, Losers did not know that the whole point of the Colbert Report is to make fun of Republicans. I had always assumed that there were people out there who were to stupid to realize that the joke was on them.
nothing makes DM Murdock look stupid. she is stupid
if your eye, hand, parent, child, anything is more important than god, u r cooked. nazis think xtards r offended by god's promises.
his statements make 0 sense 2 them. they c so well, they r blind.
sorry girls. gotta drown first.
but first go figure out that u no nothin
got to love jesus. he don't mess with nobody. which is y they hate him so bad. which is y they r so close to falling in love with him
The check engine light came on while I was driving, my 2000 Accord yesterday. The manual said to make sure the gas cap was tight and if so take it to the dealer. I had a mechanic look at it and he said it is fine to drive as long as it doesn't jerk or overheat. I did some googling on possible solutions, anyone else have this problem?
I suggest that you pray the light goes out.
Based on what I've found so far, that might work as well as anything else. I think it should be called the "my car runs perfectly fine, but this light is on" indicator.
@Lunchbreaker
I had a similar problem with the saab I drove. I kicked it a little, cried a little took it to a dealer who said it was fine. 2 days later smoke started coming out from under the hood (which in my uneducated opinion meant *DANGER*) so I took it back and he took a look at it again, realized it was something to do with the engine and fixed it.
The light however is still on.....
What I'm trying to say here is, take it back in a day or two if you can, tell him that it's smoking, or that you hear a cranking sound when you drive it and they'll do a more invasive check up and probably charge you a boatload of money and after your done wiping the tears away with your checkbook, you'll pay the man. Make sure though that when this all happens, make them turn off the light!
Call click and clack, the tappet brothers.
Have your car computer scanned for trouble codes, and take it from there!
Good luck.
Have your own reader...............Vic..............plug – in under steering wheel..............then fix or take for warranty work.
Bill, unfortunately I think Car Talk is off the air, and they are only playing reruns.
Pope, archbishop of Canterbury meet, speak of unity.................money old no god(s) needed.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/la-fg-wn-pope-archbishop-canterbury-meet-20130614,0,4732230.story
Oh really? How will you reply to this line from the Bible? Are they supposed to deny what's in it?
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned".
Mark 16:16
The bible is crooked so does not matter to me ......you know ..Adam and his bone.
What do you have against a belief in a higher power?
And how can you be against the bible when it is better than science?
Hey Bill................think of The King James version as Humpty Dumpy Sat on the Wall another classic fairytale from England.
June 12, 2013 — To World War II soldiers, "The White Cliffs of Dover" was a morale-boosting song that lifted spirits in dark times. To geographers,
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130612133050.htm
" Probably not, say church experts."
Hahaha!!!!! Oh, well thanks to the "experts" for clarifying that bit about Atheists and heaven. The experts who live in a fantasy world have explained which of the people go to the fantasy reward center to get their fantasy prize.
Oh really? How will you reply to this line from the Bible? Are they supposed to deny what's in it?
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned".
Mark 16:16
So now you're telling me that I'm not the winner of the make-believe lottery? I had all these plans to pretend to buy things with my pretend money. Not what am I going to do?
RR, Simple. It's all a fabrication as most of these self-sustaining bible verses are. It is predicated on a god and that these are the words of said god – no evidence for either.
The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science.
— Adolf Hitler
“I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty
Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.”
[Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]
“I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of
the Almighty Creator.”
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 46]
The reason for sighting the source of a quote should be to give credit to the originator.
Too many people in here try to validate what they are saying by quoting people from history who said similar things.
Just Because Hitler, Thomas Jefferson, or Einstein said something, that doesn't make it relevant to the world today.
“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”
[Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]
“What we have to fight for…is the freedom and independence of the
fatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission
assigned to it by the Creator.”
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 125]
Exactly my point Alias. People like to use HItler's statements on Christianity to disparage the faith and my post just shows he said some things that could be used to disparage science, if quotes were valid evidence of reality.
Did you know Einstein said "There is no reason to believe that atomic power is a possibility." ?
SO can we stop with the "Hitler was a Christian" stuff? It just makes those who use it look stupid.
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited."
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922
Thanks for making my point huh
“In the long run, National Socialism and religion will no longer be able to exist together.” -Hitler’s
“…the only way of getting rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.” -Hitler’s
Hitler came to power as a politician.
He would have said anything in a speach to win public support.
Seriously, if I agree with Bill Deacon just accept it as truth and move on!
“We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. We shall continue to preach the doctrine of National Socialism, and the young will no longer be taught anything but the truth.” -Hitler’s
“So it’s not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death. A slow death has something comforting about it. The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that’s left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic.” -Hitler’s Table Talk
Too stupid and illiterate a quote to reply to. I only hope that you know quotes from ones other than Hitler.
The first thing Hitler did when he came to power was go on the Internet and compare people to Hitler.
Bill Deacon
So I thought you posted that once a person is baptised and confirmed Into the RCC they are always a catholic even if they renounce the faith, they are just a lapsed catholic? So Hitler was both baptised and confirmed into the RCC, check it out. Were you lying then or are you lying now? Such hypocrisy Bill, very un-Jesus like.
@Bill Deacon,
Not sure where the OP was coming from, but often the Hitler-was-Christian comments are a response to the Hitler-was-Atheist comments.
That being said and regardless of the author, the OP quote seems accurate, does it not?
The advance of science does eat away at Christian, and all religious, dogma. e.g. flat-earth, geocentricity, great flood, Adam and Eve, etc.
Of course Hitler was not a Christian, so obvious. He was however a Catholic and very few Catholics follow the teachings of Christ, they follow the dogma of the RCC, not a very Christian bunch at all.
Time for Gandhi.
I like your Christ but I do not like your Christians, your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Deacon, Christian posters say things like "atheists are as bad as Hitler", so people counter that by saying, correctly, that Hitler was Christian.
Alias, the truth hurts, and you agreeing with Deacon doesn't mean squat. If you don't like the comparisions to Hitler, then tell the misguided CHRISTIANS to quit telling atheists that they are Hitleresque. They're using it in the wrong way, not atheists. Just saying.
OK ME II stay with me here. I'm the OP in this thread. People (correctly as our friend above points out) link Hitler to Christianity as a method to defame the faith. When they do so, they commit two, count them two fallacies. The first most obvious is argumentum ad Hitlerium. The second is guilt by association.
I posted a quote and there are others of Hitler espousing his confidence in science. By the above logic, I could claim that science is evil and corrupt because, after all, Hitler was a scientist.
I'm simply trying to point out the absurdity of drawing a conclusion about Christianity (or science) based on Hitler's perversion of either one. The beauty of using Hitler as an example is that by being such an extreme case, it highlights how ridiculous it is to disparage ideas based on the traits of select adherents. You might as well say Africa is an evil continent because some Africans are cannibals or riding in cabs is wrong because I once knew a rude cab driver.
This probably won't stop the idiot posters from using "Hitler was a Christian" but I may start using "Hitler was a scientist" in response just to, you know, keep the conversation going.
@Bill Deacon
I agree with pretty much everything you said. Using Hitler as an example doesn't really reinforce why one or the other is evil. It's a perversion like you said. That's also true on the flip side as well, you can't take a paragon of good and claim they represent all adherents and that's why one is better than the other.
The only thing you can do is look at the fundementals and choose which promotes more good than evil.
As to saying that Hitler was christian and using quotes, I generally see that only in response to a christian first firing a shot across the bow that hitler was an atheist, ipso facto atheism is evil. It generally is used to correct a christian of their misinformation.
@Bill Deacon,
I don't disagree that the dis-appeal to dis-authority is a fallacy, all I'm saying is that your inclination to use Hitler-was-a-scientist arguments to counter Hitler-was-Christian arguments may be counter productive because often the Hitler-was-Christian statements are often in response to Hitler-was-an-Atheist(or Evilutionist) statements. Additionally, I doubt most people would consider Hitler a scientist, at least in the everyday usage of scientist.
My second point, however, was that the quote appears to be correct and in line with the God of the gaps arguments.
Often is often used too often.
Bill Deacon
No response to your previous posts that once a catholic always a catholic? Really Bill you are an obvious catholic troll but a Christian, I think not. Very cowardly not to man up to your previous comments but that is what I expect from you.
The stupid ones are those that deny Hitler was a catholic christian. How simple would it be for the RCC, or any other cult, to declare Hitler was not so, or to even excommunicate him, before he died or after. Maybe the various Pope-a-Dopes have been informed (by their imaginary friend) that Hitler is in heaven.
Tea party patriots gladly crawl a mile over broken glass just to sniff the tire tracks of the truck that took Sarah Palin's dirty underwear to the laundry.
I did post this, and i meant it. It's the other atheist loser who is posting under my name. Get a job and a life atheist loser.
Seek some help bro. Both of you.
AAAAhhhhh – f.uck you. If people would stop using my name, I wouldn't have to post like this.
Here's an idea, why dont either you post somethig worth reading and stop worrying about the name?
Can either/any of you offer something insightful?
More and more gay news
Ok I'm somewhat concerned at the number of atheists are "ok" with this pope.
This is a man that daily lies to 2.2 billion of followers by claiming direct communication with god. Something that he cannot even prove to exists. Because he has shined up his lie by vocalizing a more humanitarian application of the lie ... sill makes it a lie.
Until he comes out and says “After further contemplation and reflection I have discovered that god is a manifestation of man and there is no proof of his/ its existence. Therefore I will use the financial resources that the RCC has acc.umulated to help man through medical research and out right 'feeding of the poor' ", he is just another charlatan
I suspect he is victim number one of his own self-delusion, BM. I strongly suspect he really believes in the sky-fairy and that he talks to it. This is a difficult concept for rational people to grasp, but that's because we are rational. Think mild schitzophrenia.
We don't all have an agenda.
I don't have hard feelings toward everyone who was indoctrinated into a religion from berth.
The office of Pope isn't going away anytime soon, and I think the best I as an atheist can say is "He's better than the last one".
ANY progress is a positive step IMO.
That's a pretty ridiculous stance. What does it matter if someone believes in god as long as they don't use it to denegrate others or wage war and violence? People are lied to all the time. Further, no pope is ever going to say, "never mind, I was wrong, you can all go home and forget this holy stuff." But at least if they were to retreat from the strict dogma, eventually religion will be so weak and diluted, it will not be a problem and probably lose it's following.
"I don't have hard feelings toward everyone who was indoctrinated into a religion from berth."
And honestly ... I do not have hard feelings either. But let's face it the pope is NOT just anybody.
This man has emence power, and can quite literally change the world. And he wastes it by praying ( or falling asleep while praying ) and transubstantiation.
All Catholics have direct communication with God. It's called the mass.
mass is not communication ... it is a monologue
@BM
You're right, this man does have immense power and a lot of influence to a solid amount of the worlds population. If he's choosing to use that power to say, "feed the poor!" instead of "go outside today and kill a jew" then Isn't that something?
Sure, I'll never fully support the guy on most stuff and I believe he's still a liar but at least his lies benefit me and others in some small ways, that's better than the last guy. I'll still oppose the guy on stuff I believe he's way off base on and if someone *cough* Bill Deacon *cough* thinks that this pope is teaching atheists and others how to act I have no problem pointing out that it's actually the opposite and that the pope is finally learn how to be decent from seeing how goodness is a human trait, not a christian trait. But hey, if the poor are receiving more help, I won't try and oppose that because the ideaology behind the help is something I disagree with
@BM
You're right, this man does have im.men.se power and a lot of influence to a solid amount of the worlds population. If he's choosing to use that power to say, "feed the poor!" instead of "go outside today and ki.ll a jew" then Isn't that something?
Sure, I'll never fully support the guy on most stuff and I believe he's still a liar but at least his lies benefit me and others in some small ways, that's better than the last guy. I'll still oppose the guy on stuff I believe he's way off base on and if someone *cou.gh* Bill Deacon *cou.gh* thinks that this pope is teaching atheists and others how to act I have no problem pointing out that it's actually the opposite and that the pope is finally learn how to be decent from seeing how goodness is a human trait, not a christian trait. But hey, if the poor are receiving more help, I won't try and oppose that because the ideaology behind the help is something I disagree with
@BM
You're right, this man does have im.men.se power and a lot of influence to a solid amount of the worlds population. If he's choosing to use that power to say, "feed the poor!" instead of "go outside today and ki.ll a jew" then Isn't that something?
Sure, I'll never fully support the guy on most stuff and I believe he's still a liar but at least his lies benefit me and others in some small ways, that's better than the last guy. I'll still oppose the guy on stuff I believe he's way off ba.se on and if someone *cou.gh* Bill Deacon *cou.gh* thinks that this pope is teaching atheists and others how to act I have no problem pointing out that it's actually the opposite and that the pope is finally learning how to be dec.ent from seeing how goodness is a human tra.it, not a christian tra.it. But hey, if the poor are rece.iving more help, I won't try and oppose that because the ide.aol.ogy behind the help is something I disagree with
BM I think you just showed you don't understand the mass. Have you ever been to Eucharistic adoration? A dialogue happens there as well.
^^
Oops, that's embarrassing
BD
12 years of Catholic education. Went to mass every sunday. Alter boy too
I am familiar with mass
Its a monologue
Well Chuckle, I guess we can look forward to a bright new future for the world's poor now that the catholic Church has finally decided to pitch in and help with the valiant and well established efforts of the all the atheists. Good grief.
BM, I'm seldom impressed with someone who "grew up" Catholic.
oops altar boy
"BM, I'm seldom impressed with someone who "grew up" Catholic."
So your not impressed with the pope, all the cardinals, bishops, priests, nuns, and probably 95% of the current Catholics.
Got it
@Bill Deacon
I hope so! At least the wealth and influence the Vatican has now will go towards something worthwhile. There's only so much atheists can do, especially when the church is usually standing in our way. Hopefully you can take a breath long enough from impededing gay rights to actually help!
"BM" I used quotes around grew up for a reason. I've seen hundreds of people like you and many self describe as being "forced to go to church, having that crap crammed down my throat". They never enter the mystery. The catechism calls it lack of intention. So the fact that you "grew up" in the the Church doesn't give any credence to you claim that the mass is a monologue when a billion or so other people who, bringing the proper intention to the mass, recognize that communion is just what it says it says it is.
Chuckles, pretty good trolling bro. Kudos.
Ah
So Catholics do what the church says by sending their children to Catholic school where they are exposed – at a VERY young age to the Catholic catechism. They send their children to mass like the RCC says to do. And now it is MY fault for lack of intention?
Additionally 2.2 billion people say that the mass is a communication ...
So that is a pretty big number and I'm thinking that because so many people say that it is true ... must make it true, right?
Bad news is that 5 billion says it is not.
@Bill
Thanks! These ole trolling bones have a couple of good years left!
As to the conversation between you and Brother Maynard, I've seen this quite a bit and it's always puzzled me coming from a faith that doesn't rely heavily on "intention" as you put it. How do you prove your intention? It's clear words and actions aren't good enough. Brother Maynard has shown that he didn't just attend church every so often when he was little, he elected to become an Altar Boy, doesn't that show that at one point in his life he full intended to believe in god and that it just didn't happen?
I thnk you believe Brother Maynard never had the faith because if he did he'd be like you yes? Isn't that unfair though? I know plenty of christians and ex-christians alike who went through all the same education, did the same actions, grew up in the same area, atteneded all the same things together and yet each has a different path, so why do you think that it's the unbelievers fault that god didn't enter their life like yours even though they were just as open to it and keen to meet god only to come to the conclusion that after intending to believe in god, nothing happened.
This is coming from a person who is raised jewish where we stress action rather than intention and put much more stock in the heritage and underlying themes rather than faith itself. One thing I heard recently that stuck with me is how odd it is that the jewish people, the founders of Monotheism, are now the first group to transcend it.
Chuck, good question. I'm not saying Maynard isn't a Catholic or even a good Catholic (whatever that is). As a friend of mine points out, going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than sitting in the garage makes you a car.
The teaching on intentionality begins with the priest. If he is heretical or in a state of sin, then his consecration is invalid. Transubstatiation does not take place meaning the bread and wine do not become the body and blood. If that does not occur then Maynard is right, communion does not take place and the sacrament is void. In that case, the mass does not even actually occur and the entire congregation is left without benefit of the embodiment of Christ. On an individual basis, the same thing can occur. Without the proper preparation for mass via confession, penance, prayer, fasting and intention, the sacrament is voided and again, nothing has happened except you consumed some bread and wine and listened to a monologue. This is what Maynard reports as his experience and I believe him because I watch it happen every Sunday in individual cases and I am certain I have experienced it in the corporate. This is why Catholicism is more than a "go to church on Sunday" religion
Conversely, I and others have experienced the fullness of the mass wherein Christ is present to the communicant. I take Maynard at his word that he has not experienced this but I do not allow him to malign the reality of the mass simply because it is outside his grasp.
When Jesus wrote the Bible, he didn't mention anything about monkeys turning into people. Evolutionists and athiests are just dumb.
Trollin' trollin' trollin', keep those doggies trollin'......
When Jesus wrote the Bible? Good lord.
Always the same gay atheists losers who is always taking my name to post idiocies. Losers.
But he did write about talking snakes, a flood that covered the planet, the sun moving around a flat earth, and unicorns.
Christians are just dumb.
It wasn't me, it was that same stupid atheist loser who is posting under my name.
It wasn't me either!
You are way too up-tight for me!
The atheist that's denegrating atheists? You're a wacked out dude.
I think most atheists on this blog would agree that there is little point in stealing a name and pretending to be a fundie nutjob – we just don't have the chops to keep up with the real thing. Any bit of trolling that happens by an atheist POE is quickly drowned out by the real thing – like Bill and faith and lolly.
Try Matthew, Mark, Luke and John
"I think most atheists on this blog would agree that there is little point in stealing a name and pretending to be a fundie nutjob"
I have to admit that whoever logs in as HeavenSent and posts quotes just like hers but slips in se xu al innuendos is pretty funny.
Her response to them is even funnier.
I have to admit that I am addicted to the soap opera that is HeavenSent's camel-toe.
Why is it everytime someone mentions Sarah Palin I think of slope-headed inbreds with more guns than teeth? Trailer trash goobers who wear beany-copter hats and drink out of mason-jars. Low lifes whose idea of a night out is taking their cousin to a Chick-fil-A. ( I also think of nascar )
Because you’re a liberal racist. If I can be so bold to list those words together. Hypocrite!
Why is it everytime someone mentions Sarah Palin I think of slope-headed inbreds with more guns than teeth?"
Because those are her followers.
viva Sarah Palin!!! and yes if that's so then Im one of that teeth weapons she has
It's funny to hear gay atheists claiming that pedophiles and gays are not the same type of people. It also funny to see that the churches are full of gays and have always been. Now who were the ones who r-a-p-e-d little boys?
Trollin' just to keep on trollin'....
Child molesters cannot be meaningfully described as hom.ose.xuals, heterose.xuals, or bise.xuals (in the usual sense of those terms) because they are not really capable of a relationship with an adult man or woman. Instead of gender, their se.xual attractions are based primarily on age. These individuals – who are often characterized as fixated – are attracted to children, not to men or women.
Perpetrators with a more or less exclusive interest in children are labeled fixated. Fixation means "a temporary or permanent arrestment of psychological maturation resulting from unresolved formative issues which persist and underlie the organization of subsequent phases of development".
By contrast, other molesters are described as regressed. Regression is "a temporary or permanent appearance of primitive behavior after more mature forms of expression had been attained, regardless of whether the immature behavior was actually manifested earlier in the individual's development".
Doctors Groth and Birnbaum studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of se.xual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively ho.mos.exual adult se.xual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterose.xuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bise.xuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in s.ex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily se.xually attracted to other adult males..."
I didn't post this either. Stop using my name – atheist losers.
Since Christians make up something like 80% of the population I would imagine that by and large it is Christians rap.ing little boys.
LMAO 😛
yer right it's peculiar they actually molest male kids.
We're told that the pope is irrelevant. The scriptures are irrelevant. The church is irrelevant. Yet the liberal media of the atheists hangs on to every word the pope says. If this is irrelevance, what would relevance look like?
Exaclty.
Truth is the fairy in the sky did not create US !
Who did, the monkeys?
Someone said earlier on thread about the blue green slimy stuff ?
Atheists think monkeys turned into people, even though Jesus wrote in Genesis that Adma and Eve did.
Ignorance and stupidity are not the same thing, but in your case, I think you are both.
What Michael Jackson ever said was irrelevant. What Angelina Jolie says is irrelevant. What Taylor Swift says is irrelevant. Yet the media and its followers hang on their every words too. Why should the pope be any different?
@SCIENCE "Truth is the fairy in the sky did not create US ! " Atheists say that man greated God in man's own image. When atheists talk about God, they use "sky fairies", "sky daddy", and other petty names. Apparently, if an atheist created god in the atheists image, the atheist must look like a "sky fairy".
BTW – everyone except Loser would know who that was directed at. Loser – it was you.
@Loser
Atheists think monkeys turned into people, even though Jesus wrote in Genesis that Adma and Eve did.
------------------------------------------
I thought that Moses supposedly wrote Genesis (and surprisingly wrote on after his death in Exodus)?
I was also unaware of the miracle when Jesus turned monkeys into men.
Sorry – got that slightly wrong. According to Loser – Adam and Eve turned monkeys into people.
if you call these six trivial remarks by Pope stunners, what do you call child mole station charges against priests, earth shattering?
The new pope has disoriented the seculars so significantly, I thought they had forgotten about child mole station. I thought you guys would NEVER bring that up.
It's just that the public is so used to popes blathering about this and that, all of it irrelevant, when one actually sounds sane it becomes news.
@ed dugan Your version of scripture might read like this: "Man does not live by bread alone but by all the pabulum that comes forth through the media." You say the pope is blathering. Do you believe the constant blathering of the media? Have you ever bought something because some salesman "blathered" a sales line to you?