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June 20th, 2013
10:22 AM ET
Exodus apologizes to gay community, shuts down 'cure' ministry(CNN) - After 37 years, Exodus International, an organization whose mission was to "help" gay Christians become straight, is shutting down. But not before issuing an apology. "We're not negating the ways God used Exodus to positively affect thousands of people, but a new generation of Christians is looking for change - and they want to be heard," Tony Moore, an Exodus board member, said Wednesday. The announcement comes less than a day after Exodus issued a wide-ranging apology to the gay community for "years of undue judgment by the organization and the Christian Church as a whole," a statement from the group says. "Exodus is an institution in the conservative Christian world, but we've ceased to be a living, breathing organism," said Alan Chambers, the president of Exodus. "For quite some time, we've been imprisoned in a worldview that's neither honoring toward our fellow human beings, nor biblical." Chambers, who has a wife and children and previously identified as gay, has acknowledged that he has "ongoing same-sex attractions." FULL STORY
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next thing you know conservatives are going to be performing third trimester abortions at gay raves.
Adios religion!
You don't have to be religious to be opposed to third trimester abortions.
We often see people posting that the bible was written by humans. While the words were recorded by humans, it should be quite obvious that these aren’t the musings of mere mortals. If you really think, what you are posting, I challenge you to take five minutes and read Matthew chapters 5, 6, and 7. Then let us know if you still think these are human ideas.
"Then let us know if you still think these are human ideas"
Written by humans, translated by humans, edited by humans, read by humans and easily understood by humans.
Unless you are a moron, it is pretty clear that they are human ideas.
I challenge you to prove us wrong! Unless you can verify with evidence that your god exists, there is no just reason to believe that it is anything more than the word of man.
The question is why would you think they aren't ?
Yet to see an unbeliever have a civil discussion. Does having a discussion on the internet excuse one from being civil?
Although it is possible that they are the ideas of a horse or possibly an elephant.
If you want me to believe that god came up with those ideas then you are going to have to prove it to me without mentioning the bible.
All religious texts since the dawn of man have been dictated by stove-pipe hats, everybody knows that.
Quite obvious, huh? Sorry dude. No way.
Hey dot – plenty of nonbelievers have civil discussions. Stop whining.
.
I always attemt to argue in a civil manner but it is hard not to respond with an appeal to ridicule when dealing with such sheer ignorance of rational thought.
Words written in bible represent mind set of a hindu, secular, crook self centered writer hundreds of years after Easu, anointed one, corresponding not to essence of teachings, but plot to justify hindu Mithra ism, pagan savior ism, in violation of spirit of true teachings.
if you still think these are human ideas
-----
Did God require the assistance of human beings to create the universe, and all life within it? Why would he require our help to pen a few words in a book?
Robert
Why not? The Bible's chock full of contradictions, mistakes, and very human prejudices. Name one thing in it that someone couldn't dream up all by themselves.
I've read the bible cover to cover and the whole thing looks pretty human in origin to me. It's a little less boring than some holy books, more than others, but never struck me as special.
No takers huh, no surprise. You just like to say it, makes you feel better or something.
If it is just a book written by men, why are you afraid to spend five minutes reading it?
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
why are you afraid to spend five minutes reading it?
-----
Not surprinsingly, you're only hearing what you want to hear. "No takers"?! I've read it, still do on occasion. Looks like several more responders have also read it. We still have the same questions. Mine again is: God created this the universe, this world, and all life within, without human assistance. Why would he need human assistance to write a few words in a book?
You guys know people who think this way?
Yes robert brown...these are all HUMAN concepts...You will find similar passages in many other religions and or human studies. Just like the book itself...a human concept. Nothing special in the bible....nothing.
Madtown,
You’ve read it and attribute this type of thinking to people?
To continue Robert, as I have studied the conceptof intelligence, especially how it pertains to other animals, most of those concepts are not even confined to humans. You will find many social behaviors are not unique to humans at all, there are parallels throughout the animal , and insect kingdooms.
Robert Brown,
Yes, there are some fine sentiments in Matthew 5, 6, 7. The deal is, though, none of them really originated with, nor were exclusive to Jesus (if he really said them at all). You might want to read some of the (even older) scriptures from Hinduism or Buddhism (and others) which say many similar things.
Richard Cranium,
Ok, you must know different humans than I do. Being nice, kind, and compassionate is one thing, but…
You’ve read it and attribute this type of thinking to people?
----
LOL!! You're aware that a panel of religious leaders gathered to discuss and decide which of the independent works they would use to create the greater work of the bible? The hand of man is all over the bible, every single word.
Robert Brown
Perhaps I do, I know a lot of musicians and artists, people that are used to thinking in different ways than what might be called mainstream. I myself go out of my way every day to practice random acts of kindness, and have done so for decades. I do not need any man made instruction manual telling me how and why to be nice to others and accept the inherent diversity of each individual.
We are a social animal and behave very similar to other social animals. Do you know for instance that our own decision makng process in our brian is almost identical to the hive mentality of a bee hive making a decision. Our brain works almost identically like a bee hive works.
Read it. Some nice words. No sign of any god or jesus as a result. The Babble is manmade crap – unless someone comes up with some real evidence. We're waiting. . . Well, not really!
OTOH,
I’ll admit complete ignorance to the Hindu or Buddhist texts. I did read somewhere that the golden rule originated from one of those rather than love your neighbor as yourself.
Your humble servant, praying and giving in secret, not even looking at the smoking hot chick, seems a little unhuman to me. Who knew?
Richard Cranium,
You’re a really nice guy to do random acts of kindness. I did see a show on the bee hive being similar to the way our brain works, neat stuff. Obviously, you folks think different than I do. I just don’t see humans coming up with the concepts in the bible.
I just don’t see humans coming up with the concepts in the bible.
-----–
Do you feel the same way about Science Fiction novels? Some of those authors come up with some pretty fantastic stuff.
Robert Brown,
I'm no expert in ancient religions either, but here's one from Buddha on forgiveness (500+ years before the alleged Jesus). It's in your favorite parable form too. And note that Buddha had 'disciples' also.
http://www.youaretrulyloved.com/enlightenment/the-buddha-teaches-a-lesson-on-forgiveness/
@Robert, I think you might just have either a lack of immagination or a fairly limited range of experience with human diversity. You might wasnt to read more religious texts (do you think they are all true) and some high quality science fiction in which new religious ideology is often invented. This is pretty much how Scientology was created.
I'd like to draw attention to this article. Hopefully, heads will roll (figuratively).
http://www.goddiscussion.com/110692/us-immigration-office-denies-citizenship-to-elderly-brit-over-atheism/
It is in the second and third paragraph
Sixty-four year old Margaret Doughty, who has been living in the United States for thirty years, recently applied for citizenship. Part of that process involves a questionnaire that asks whether or not the applicant is willing to take up arms to defend the United States.
This is where it got sticky. Apparently, the only exemption that is acceptable for not being willing to take up arms to defend the United States is a religious one, and to prove so, she needs this to be stated on official church stationery.
=======
So, reading in context, she was denied for denying to promised to do her civil duty, protect the country. She was given faith as an option not as the reason for her denial.
I have a real problem with this – the idea that a "Conscientious Objector" has to base their objection on a religious doctrine. It is not possible for an atheist to claim to be a conscientious objector. I am an atheist and I refuse to kill based on a moral choice – it has nothing to do with religion.
I have a conscientious objection to the idea of a 64 year old woman taking up arms to defend the country.
Can't we find some young Mexicans to do that?
Apparently some morons don't believe you can have a conscience without believing in invisible fairys.
Mike from CT
Why should religious people be given preferential treatment?
Those rules are some outdated nonsense that needs to be reviewed. It's horrifying.
I'm sure I'll be verbally abused for this, but why should conscientious objectors be excused from defense of their country? Admittedly 64 year-olds won't be called upon first, but why not deny citizenship to them?
This really has nothing to do with religion but the problem of what to do with conscientious objectors. They shouldn't be allowed an exemption any more than you should be able to beat your kids if your religion tells you to, or refuse to pay taxes or whatever. But realistically speaking a true conscientious objector is more trouble than they're worth in battle, you let them out. But since a heck of a lot of people don't want to fight, how would you decide who is "real"? I don't think there's a perfect answer. Personally I'd lean towards allowing the exemotion for people already in the US, but would require a higher standard to gain citizenship, just as gaining citizenship (or at least PR) normally requires many educational and background requirements normal citizens don't have to pass.
I believe it's the "willing to take up arms " bit that some object to, not the entire "defense" of the nation. You can be very useful in "defending" your nation from beihnd a desk or in a hospital or clinic helping heal the wounded, while still choosing not to "take up arms" yourself.
Saraswati
How about nobody gets forced into armed service? Let's at least keep up the pretence we're not under a totalitarian regime.
Happy Atheist
Well put.
@Happy, why should some people get to defend the nation in a nice safe desk job while others do the real work for them? That's just a lazy cop out like the people who wouldn't even shoot a serial killer who is poised to kill again because it wouldn't fit with their self-image. Won't shoot the serial killer? As far as I'm concerned you're a murderer.
@I'm sorry,
How about everyone shares equally the burden of defending the country?
What if I don't want to defend my country?
Perhaps the 'freedom to practice' is the consti.tutional difficulty in requiring armed service, the non-religious are not protected by such.
@I'm sorry,
What if you don't want to pay taxes? What if you don't want to obey traffic laws?
If you have a moral objection don't do it. You'll get arrested and if you make your case well you will be respected and maybe even win. If you're just lazy or selfish, I don't think the rest of us will care what happens to you.
@I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that,
If you don't want (or refuse) to defend a country to which you wish to emigrate, then why would you be surprise that they might say, 'Sorry, but no.' Mind you this is for gaining citizenship, not those already citizens nor for gaining residency.
If I were the only one left able to stop the serial killer then yes, I would pull the trigger and deal with my conscience later. If I was the only one able to pick up the garbage in my neighborhood or they would become filthy with disease I would do it as well. I however pay someone else to do that Job that I would rather not do myself if I can help it. Is that snobish of me?
I pay taxes for the police to go after and catch serial killers. I pay the garbage man to take away my trash. I pay the doctor to perform surgery if needed, something I know I wouldn't want to do on myself even if I knew how. I have never fainted at the sight of blood but I have almost fainted at the sight of a large laceration so I know I wouldn't be the best suited for that job. I'm not saying I would never pick up a gun, but i'm saying there are far more qualified persons who don't have my hang up's with it that would be able to serve far better than I so I will support them in every way I can.
emigrate -> immigrate
@ME II, That's not why we allow people out of service. If it were we would have to allow people out of paying taxes for religious reasons too. These folks cost the rest of us not just money but a greater risk of death for each person who actually is willing to serve. The only reason for exempting them is because they would be worse than useless in a war (assuming they didn't change their position).
What if my moral objection is a result of my laziness? Why should laziness be given less consideration than such an abstract concept as morality?
@Happy Atheist,
I don't think the concept is that new citizens will volunteer for service, but if necessity demands it, such as insti,tution of the draft, then will they be willing to answer such a call. Although, a draft isn't the best example, either.
@ME II,
"If you don't want (or refuse) to defend a country to which you wish to [immigrate], then why would you be surprise that they might say, 'Sorry, but no.' "
Agreed. I would not expect citizenship from a country I wasn't willing to defend. If they gave it to me, I'd actually think them nuts. The problem in this story is that any immigrant gets the exemption. It's a practical issue with folks already here, but why the heck grant citizenship to a permanent resident so someone unwilling to carry the burden herself can now vote as to how our military is used?
@I'm sorry,
I'm going to assume you're now joking, but if not as I've said before we don't really give a crap about these people's morals. This is a practical issue we cover up with nice words. Lazy people, unlike some moral objectors, will fire a gun if you put it in their hands inbattle.
I was incorrect, thanks Saraswati.
Based on this:
WHO QUALIFIES?
Beliefs which qualify a registrant for CO status may be religious in nature, but don't have to be. Beliefs may be moral or ethical; however, a man's reasons for not wanting to participate in a war must not be based on politics, expediency, or self-interest. In general, the man's lifestyle prior to making his claim must reflect his current claims.
( http://www.sss.gov/FSconsobj.htm )
It does not seem to be a religious-only criteria and therefore it shouldn't be a religious-only criteria on the citizenship application either.
@ME II
Thanks for doing the legwork and finding that piece of info. However, it seems that we are still SOL.
In general, the man's lifestyle prior to making his claim must reflect his current claims.
How, exactly do I claim that my non-killing lifestyle exempts me from combat duty – wouldn't this work for anyone that has not killed another person? On top of this, it is obviously quite old as the gender reference indicates.
BTW – I am registered for the draft, and would be more than willing to serve in a non-combat situation – I have no problem putting my life on the line for my country (bomb disposal comes to mind), I just refuse to kill. This is not a matter of cowardice or laziness – it is a matter of morals.
Saraswati
I assure you I'm not joking and a moral objector will do the exac same thing as a lazy person in that situation.
Exact.
It was started by a hindu gandu, filthy hind lover secular, self centered by faith, pretending o be follower of truth absolute to hind fool humanity, and they ended by their faith in hindu gandu ism, flthy secular ism, self center ism. nothing changed and nothing achieved, Way of hindu gandus, filthy hind lovers to promote hindu atheism, criminal self center ism among humanity. foundation of hinduism denial of truth absolute called religion.
You're mentality retarded
Only by a hindu idiotic, ignorant secular, self centered mind.
Claim: "ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUION" is mentally retarded.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
@Snopes,
Funny bit, but I don't think that the Snopes people would appreciate it.
Plus, it's against this site's TOS:
- You agree not to impersonate any person or ent.ity, including, but not limited to, any CNN employee, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with any person or ent.ity;
I love being a wet blanket.
Erm#2,
Just tryin' to save Snopey some grief...
Islam: You fool, as always you make no sense.
Is sorry enough?
They have done harm. They need to be held liable
Sorry don't pay the bills. Damages are in order
Let the suits begin.
No sane judge will uphold any suit. If anybody should be sued, it's the parents of underage kids who are forcefully sent to these straight camps.
It's the churches that tell the parents to go to the sick therapy that should be sued.
Homogenous gayeties are frivolous mannerisms unbecoming the normalcies of manliness activities.
Since when did America get so bogged down in this 'sue everybody' mentality anyway? This is wide-loads suing fast-food outlets stuff.
It's the parents that need to go to therapy so they can learn to love their gay children. No more denial, no more hiding your flamboyant from your friends and neighbors, no more guilt about attending his ballet recital. Their parents are the ones who need to deal with their mental illness that was forced upon them by their parents through mental abuse. They were told to hate those who don't act like you or look like you. "To marry a black, er I mean "same gender" person is disgusting!" they were told, and it will take some therapy to get them over it.
Where'd ya come up with the idea of "harm"?? Is that like "sin"??
I think it would depend whether they misrepresented the results (changes, later quality of life) and the evidence they had of those results. If they oversold it would be false advertising, and possibly malpractice.
"For quite some time, we've been imprisoned in a worldview that's neither honoring toward our fellow human beings, nor biblical."
Wow. Even my dark, cynical little heart is buoyed by this. I don't even care why they're doing it, just that they are.
Maybe the facts are overwhelming that evolution wins
Why jumping genes don't send us into meltdown
41 minutes ago
http://phys.org/news/2013-06-genes-dont-meltdown.html
Not everything in religion boils down to evolution.
The bible is BS
Biblical Marriage Not Defined Simply As One Man, One Woman: Iowa Religious Scholars' Op-Ed
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/06/biblical-marriage-iowa-scholars-op-ed_n_3397304.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular
Chaos! This is what happens when mortals ignore the old gods and worship a false one...
Loki,
Chaotic runs the messianic cores of libations literary phantoms.
I'd like to hear what Rick 'The Frothy One' Santorum has to say about all of this. He pretty much knows everything there is to know about the gay community.
No straight person have I ever spoken with "struggles" not to be gay. It's something you are born with, you either are or you aren't and I believe it would be as easy to turn a gay person straight as it is to turn a straight person gay, which is to say virtually impossible, because it's a deep seeded attraction that we have no control over, we only have control over whether we act on it. You can try and force straight people to remain chaste as you can gay persons and they might for a time, but our human nature is to act on our deep feelings of attraction so eventually they will. And it's only the religious moral police that are having issues with it, so why not just let humans be humans and love who we want to love.
I've met people who severely struggle with it.
Sorry, I misread your first line. You are correct.
S of The family of a girl I dated made their living off of breeding, selling and boarding dogs, an all purpose kennel. From time to time a male dog would be born se.x crazy. That type of dog would try to hump pretty much anything, other dogs of either se.x, a sofa cushion, stuffed plush animals and of course human legs. So born that way happens all the time even in other species, most of those dogs cannot be trained to change that behaviour.
JMEF
I wouldn't equate being gay with 'h.umping everything'.
What is the significance of the story about the dog? We have that in human behavior; some people are s.ex addicts. What does that have to do with being born gay?
OK bad analogy, but that dog had no more of a choice being born that way than a gay person has. I honestly believe that gays attraction to the same se.x is part of their being and trying to change that or discriminate against them is just plain wrong.
JMEF, thanks for the clarification. And you are correct: gays are born that way.
This Mortal Flesh
Abraham, the father of Faith and many nations, and the friend of God, was a liar!
Moses, the father of Judaism, was a killer!
David, king of Israel, was a murderer and an adulterer!
And the list goes on and on..
Why then did God reveal His messages through them?! The answer is SIMPLE! They TRULY BELIEVED!!!
God imputes righteousness to people on the basis of Faith and NOT on the basis of works, since the beginning of time!
This mortal flesh is corrupt due to the original sin, and it can never be clean, until the end of times!
A Sinless Human is an Oxymoron; a Paradox!
A lot of people who venture into the Bible, Christians & non-Christians, DO NOT UNDERSTAND the above fact, the Dispensation of Times and God's Ultimate Divine Intervention to SAVE this world!
A lot of Christians turn into Pharisees (the originals of whom condemn and sentenced Jesus to death!, aka self-righteous) whether in good faith or not!
Therefore, it is imperative for whoever hears the Good News of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to discern this truth:
THE FREE GIFT OF SALVATION
John 3:16,17
"16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him."
Romans 6:23
"23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Ephesians 2:8,9
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
All Scripture Is From:
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
http://www.biblegateway.com/
I discerned it as a lie. I begged Jesus to take Satan out of my brain and heart, but nothing happened!
Then I realized it WAS a lie.
Vic
Good one, I couldn't stop laughing, almost better than George Carlin.
How are you so certain those are the words of god and not just some men who were on a power trip and decided that making up stories and fooling people was as easy way to earn some fast cash and make people worship you? Religion is the greatest con game ever played amongst man.
@W C A "....."
💡 See, that's the point; you don't have to take Satan out of your mind! That's a lost cause! Just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and He takes care of your salvation.
Vic- I can't!
Can. Not. Not capable of believing it. Your god would know I was faking it if I pretended. Asking him into my heart and praying and repenting of my sins results in a feeling of...absolutely nothing at all. Well, it does result in a feeling of silliness.
All such crap.
The Hebrew had no concept of "salvation" Thanks for reminding us that Saul of Tarsus made it all up.
Mark, (the first gospel), says nothing about "salvation". WHen the young man asked Jebus how to get into heaven, he said "keep the commandments".
Original sin was cooked up by Jerome and Augustine.
It's all human BS, made up by humans before the scientific age.
Your ancient crap is meaningless in 2013.
" See, that's the point; you don't have to take Satan out of your mind! That's a lost cause! Just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and He takes care of your salvation."
No Vic you miss the point. Ever heard of sarcasm? There is no Satan, or God for that matter and salvation isn't required. Sin doesn't exist. Some of what you label as sin is just crime and the rest is disproportionate aversion to human intimacy. Your internal moral compass is improperly calibrated and deferring to a higher power is weakness... a scapegoat for your own responsibility.
@T P "....."
In short:
Faith & Religion are NOT the same thing anymore!
The Bible might have scribal, translational, and/or interpretational errors about certain details but the general narrative about God is clear enough and matches our sense; we live by Faith. 🙂
It's amazing that people believe such tripe
Vic: Dumbass. You quoted the buybull...you swear this is the word of god. I'm asking how you know this...seems rather simple! Faith and religion go hand in hand...faith is believing without evidence and religion is just a way of playing on that., sucking in the gullible with false promises.
I am without "sin" but still would not cast the first stone as you Christian nutters would. Since I have never "sinned" and do not believe in something as illogical as original "sin", why would I require salvation, from what exactly?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FmsIPmnJRs
Vic,
You live by your individual delusions.
Humans wrote the scrolls of your old book, and non-unanimously VOTED it into a single book, that came eventually tobe called the Bible.
They knew nothing more than anyone else. They knew nothing more than we do. Time to stop living by 2000 year old scrolls, cooked up by desert dwellers, who knew nothing more than 5th graders today.
In 5th grade, I knew about heliocentrism.
Glad to see you referenced the bible you used for your nonsense quotes. Any idea why there are over 50 different bibles out and about? So it is not really the word of god you believe in but faith in some crutch you stumbled upon. You should have got hooked on Zeus no cash contributions necessary. You are not embarrassed by being scammed.
Vic, If it's god's word why does The Lockman Foundation have the copyright?
And you fail to understand the most fundamental fact of the religion:
The book/religion was written and edited by men. No god involved.
Just quickly:
What sets a Christian apart is Faith ALONE in Jesus Christ as Lord & personal Savior!
Vic, what have you done that is so terrible that you need to be saved? Not another Bill Deacon that admits he is a despi,cable human being and must seek redemption to live with himself. Why do you need that crutch, afraid of dying, too bad it is inevitable?
@JMEF "....."
God is very legal; no sin nor unholiness are allowed into Heaven. Since man is born in sin due to the original sin and can not earn redemption, God imputes righteousness & holiness to man> through Faith ALONE in Jesus Christ as Lord and personal Savior.
Vic you are safe Adam and Eve never existed, therefore the was no original sin, and no need for Jesus to die to forgive it. Glad I could clear that up for you.
Vic. Well there you Christians go again. Man is born into original "sin", so all those, 5 billion or so, that never heard of your god are never going to be or can be saved because they see Jesus Christ as sheer bull sh!t. So is the delusion of Christianity. Do not forget to put your hard earned money into the scam or you maybe left out of the mythical rapture. Jesus Christ is the snake oil that lubricates the Christianity scam.
No, a baby is born innocent; it is when parents start filling that child's head with religious bullshit that is child abuse that we see the problems.
And knock it off with the html tags. You look seriously stupid, and it's seriously annoying, Vic.
Flesh spirit flesh spirit flesh spirit…..and the battle rages on and on and on…….
RB
Turning natural human urges into to some stupid idea of "sin" is probably one of the most ridiculous things that the Christian religion has done. What is a spirit, where can I find one, Harry Houdini couldn't?
That whole "sin" thing was swallowed hook, line and sinker
That would be fine, except there are no ghosts. Time for a new paradigm.
So, Robert, you feel that it is immoral because it came from a collection of iron age writings that have been fvcked with more than a san diego streetwalker when the fleet is in?
Did you pastor tell you it was so?
what makes you think that spirit and flesh are mutually exclusive?
JMEF,
Until and unless you are converted you are in the flesh. You can experience the conviction and drawing power of God’s Holy Spirit before you are converted.
Rodents for Romney, Holy Ghost
sam stone,
God’s holy spirit and the desires of the flesh are at odds.
That's God's fault so, he created our sinful flesh.
☞ I have been saying for long already that you ONLY invite people to the Lord Jesus Christ without judgement, condemnation, nor trying to convert them! When people believe God wipes out all of their sins no matter what they are! Everyone is at 100% FREE WILL to accept or not! We ARE NOT God!
Apparently I don't. I'm quite literally incapable of believing.
Vic. You might want to check with Bill Deacon, he certainly thinks he is god.
Vic
Men created your god and all of the other gods as well. You are an atheist if you do not believe in Zeus, Odin, Quetxlcoatl, or any of the other thousands of gods....you only have the one god left to dismiss and you will have joined us in reality.
No they don't. YOUR Jebus said NO ONE SHALL COME TO ME, unless the Father draw him", "many are called, but few are chosen". Too bad you never read your babble.
vic: free will and an omniscient god are not compatible
Science: Break out the popcorn...the fundies are slightly slow today but this ought to be entertaining once they catch up. 🙂
I'm sure by the end of the day this comments section will be a model of Christian love.
They all might be a little shy................ the regulars ?
Waiting for perv alert to show up...maybe HeavenSent will enlighten us with a quote from her book of fairy tales.
Perv is dot the prayer ass hat and chad maybe ?
Why don't Christians say abomination anymore?
maybe gopher will show up talking about how allowing them the same legal rights would be "endorsing" their sin. of course, he does not speak of limiting the legal rights of other sinners. perhaps that is too close to home for gopher
Lionlylamb our local hypocrite should be by soon.
===quote===
"he has "ongoing same-sex attractions."
===end===
You don't say?
Stupid dumb ass religious freaks and their silly ploys.
"years of undue judgment by the organization and the Christian Church as a whole,"
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Good for them. Glad they finally came around to a more open-minded level of understanding. Hope others follow.
Hey doogie no comment?
He got caught.
I wonder if we will ever know what really happened?
I don't believe for one minute the right wing nut jobs just suddenly became humans.
Well this Chambers guy who still has feelings for the opposite sex couldn't cure himself let alone others. The program doesn't work and a series of suicides only helped feed his guilt.
Litigation risk would be my guess.....
See, I have a problem with people who think this way. Yes, they have a long history of discrimination and horrible treatment.
In my opinion it really doesn't matter *why* they are changing their stance. I am happy that they are, and I congratulate them for coming to their senses, no matter how they arrived upon the decision.
Chambers decided to start sucking dick again.
Refreshing. Another part of the edifice of Christianity crashes to the floor.
^^ Like
When the going gets rough the tough quit-
Christianity hinges upon the principle of 'love'.
Love does not mean there is no accountability.
"Christianity hinges upon the principle of 'love'."
If your definition of love includes incest, bigotry, hate for others who don't follow your book...then sure but for the rational mind christianity hinges on control and control is not love.
Accountability?
As in judgement?