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June 20th, 2013
10:22 AM ET
Exodus apologizes to gay community, shuts down 'cure' ministry(CNN) - After 37 years, Exodus International, an organization whose mission was to "help" gay Christians become straight, is shutting down. But not before issuing an apology. "We're not negating the ways God used Exodus to positively affect thousands of people, but a new generation of Christians is looking for change - and they want to be heard," Tony Moore, an Exodus board member, said Wednesday. The announcement comes less than a day after Exodus issued a wide-ranging apology to the gay community for "years of undue judgment by the organization and the Christian Church as a whole," a statement from the group says. "Exodus is an institution in the conservative Christian world, but we've ceased to be a living, breathing organism," said Alan Chambers, the president of Exodus. "For quite some time, we've been imprisoned in a worldview that's neither honoring toward our fellow human beings, nor biblical." Chambers, who has a wife and children and previously identified as gay, has acknowledged that he has "ongoing same-sex attractions." FULL STORY
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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oh no ... who are religious people going to look down on now? who are they going to judge now? who are they going to tsk, tsk and tut, tut and shake their heads in dismay at now? who are they going to talk to other religious people about and tell each other that they are better than THOSE people?
If religious people can't judge others, they shrivel up and die. It could be a catastrophe!
There are some decent religious people out there.
Yes Dave, there are some.
It annoys me when people just have a completely generalized view of religious people, an action they would then criticize in a religious person.
I honestly don't. My neighbor's are a wonderful Catholic family. My best friend is an ordained minister with her roots seated in the United Church. I will call anyone out who portrays hatred or absolute ignorance...I find that it's a blockade, most are so ingrained that they feel they are doing their god justice by defending him...so in fear they rant about the promise of hell for not believing.
Neighbors, not neighbor's.
Truth Prevails 🙂
Good. I grew up in a Catholic environment, although my parents were atheists, so I have a few Catholic friends. Sure, most of them are lay Catholics who don't buy into the fire and brimstone stuff but I don't think it would bother me too much if they were. One guy I went to college with is a far-right neo-Nazi Catholic who advocates racial separatism and he's actually a very nice guy. He's even very amiable with non-whites, he just doesn't want white people to breed with them (crazy right. I usually tease him for his beliefs but he takes it in his stride).
Monrning Dyslexic doG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_bYlY6AHew
Biggest cry babies under the sun .............Creationists and ID believers. or bible thumpers.
Where are those who are born gay going to go for support if they don't want to live a gay lifestyle?
Sigh.
Where do those who are born hetero go for help if they don't wish to live a hetero lifestyle?
Catholic Church?
It's only because of societally constructed taboos that a gay person wouldn't want to be gay. A rational gay person would see challenging these taboos as being a more worthwhile endeavor than challenging their own s.exuality.
I cannot emphasize enough how ignorant the term "gay lifestyle" is.
That's a nice story but you are very much generalizing. Please don't assume that every person born gay has no desire to reproduce and raise a child together with the child's mother.
Luke 12
Amen.
Listening to liars who hate God told you it was OK for you to hate God too .... it's more important that they do their evil in darkness due to keeping the traditions of men.
George Karlson
Yeah, and lots of straight people with kids and wives want to go out and get some greasy pole action. What's your point?
What the....?
"Please don't assume that every person born gay has no desire to reproduce and raise a child together with the child's mother."
I know gay men who are fathers and have not denied their orientation. There is such thing as surrogate parenting. I do have a friend who has an openly gay father. Now he is a different case. He was raised strict Catholic and even though he knew he was gay, he married because admitting to being gay involved too many risks. He married. They have two very successful sons together but they never had sex. They remain married but have separate rooms. Most of the family still doesn't know.
Point being that reproduction if not the only important factor.
Not everyone born gay wants to be that way. Perhaps they resent the way they were born. Maybe they are looking for spiritual guidance that will support them wanting to live a straight life.
PS: I know one person like that very well
George Karlson
What if I'm a straight person seeking spiritual advice on greasy pole action?
George: You're a fool! How does one deny their sexuality unless there is an under lying reason behind it? It's not a lifestyle any more that being hetero is a lifestyle. Something that is natural can't be a lifestyle because there is no choice involved.
I assume that those individuals (see OP) will go to their psychiatrist and explain their situation and get professional help in the manner that they desire.
I wonder if Exodus could provide us some statistics on how many people have been in such a situation as you describe and have managed to maintain that lifestyle despite their tendencies? Maybe I'm naïve, but I think that if the organization had been successful, it would have kept on doing what it was doing.
I see numerous trolls are out. I hate to be a sign-tapper, but please don't feed the trolls.
Be blessed, for the Mighty Oppressor had taken another of our finest.
troll a little harder...we appreciate the entertainment
This brings up the weight of evil. Intent to destroy.
And then we are saved through the intervention of the mediator.
Austin, is that me?
There isn't a single contradiction in the Bible. It is the word of Jesus. I keep seeing you post it but I haven't seen a single contradiction proven by the sick atheist agenda.
You are correct.
I see the doppelganger has returned...stupid stupid doppelganger...it gets you nowhere and progresses nothing.
Can't you come up with better trolling than this? Which douche is this, Look Up?
Uncouth and the troll are of the same mindset. Big shock.
as faith-tarded thinks
Gotta love when they remain unable to read their own guide book!
Hopefully this sets you two crazies straight! We could do this all night.
In order for the buybull to be considered the word of your imaginary friend of his child, you'd have to provide evidence that they exist
Moses' personality
NUM 12:3: "Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth."
NUM 31:14, 17, 18: "And Moses was wroth...And Moses said unto them, "Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman, ... But all the women children ... keep alive for yourselves."
Righteous live?
PSA 92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."
ISA 57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."
ACT 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."
MAT 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."
Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?
MAT 5:1,2: "And seeing the multivtudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."
LUK 6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."
Jesus' last words
MAT 27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
LUK 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
JOH 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
Years of famine
II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?
I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;
Moved David to anger?
II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?
In two places in the New Testament the genealogy of Jesus son of Mary is mentioned. MAT 1:6-16 and LUK 3:23-31. Each gives the ancestors of Joseph the CLAIMED husband of Mary and Step father of Jesus. The first one starts from Abraham(verse 2) all the way down to Jesus. The second one from Jesus all the way back to Adam. The only common name to these two lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH, How can this be true? and also How can Jesus have a genealogy when all Muslims and most Christians believe that Jesus had/has no father.
God be seen?
EXO 24:9,10; AMO 9:1; GEN 26:2; and JOH 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (EXO 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)
God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (JOH 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)
And by the way uncouth...I know of over 100 contradictions, some small, many not so much, but I do not have time to get into them right now, so no...the doppelganger is not right.
Yes, he has, RC, and may he fuck off. My guess is that he can't come up with anything unique on his own, so he has to steal other people's handles. This is my last post as REM, anything here on in the asshole pseudo "Christian" who regularly breaks the 9th by stealing other's handles.
@dotty and Richard Cranium
Yeah....that comment wasn't from me. Handle stealers, you would think they might at least try to emulate the person for whom they are stealing from. But no one ever claimed they were intelligent.
Jesus said, "It is finished!!!"
The pwogwessives said, "We can improve on that!!"
Jeebus must have been talking about you.
Still having trouble with the spell checker feature,,,or does your 486 not have one imbedded in to your version of IE??
Lisping for Jesus again? Moron.
And Jesus never said one word about gay people. Emulate him, won't you, lol??
janice, why were they afraid to approach Him?? No mob??
And Jesus said "My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me?" Doesn't sound like the last words of a man who knew he was god incarnate...
I am in love with the Almighty Jesus Christ and I will tell everyone as I see fit! Praise Him and His Glory!
God and jesus are the equivalent to the LochNess Monster and Big Foot...none can be shown to exist. Time to grow up now!
Screen-name-stealing troll is here again, I see.
@pred,
Shockingly some will read about this blog:
About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team and frequent posts from religion scholar and author Stephen Prothero.
the above was mis posted.
Saraswati
Purpose of post is to make hindu secular, ignorant self centered human to realize power of truth, nothing can over power truth, nor can deviate from truth in life, because truth absolute rules the world, their is none other but truth absolute LORD GOD of the world. Deviate from truth by hindu secular ism, ignorant self center ism, and face Mayhem, Karam, wrath of truth absolute GOD. Cause of mayhem among humanity.
Mono-tonal linguistics angularly emphasized ineloquently are an unworthy ambling.
Exactly what makes a post "angular"?
Instead of a round post, they cut it into a triangular cross section. They can then nail the barbed wire along one of the faces. Used very often in angular farms.
Islam bot's head is hurtin bad today ism.
tool
Mono-tonal linguistics angularly emphasized ineloquently are an unworthy ambling.
lunchbreaker asks, Exactly what makes a post "angular"?
The emphasizing of the term ineloquently is angularly linguistic. 👿
I truly love Jesus Christ, the one absolute Lord and Savior of mankind.
You're what 5? Only children or those with child-like minds, have imaginary friends!
Die, jacker.
"Die, jacker."
Showing the love that christians are famous for.
Whatever, "derp."
Okay.... but why do you feel the need to broadcast said belief?
Roem?
@Truth Prevails- are you only 5? Judging a person by only one statement they made. Not very mature.
It's a belief blog MEII, shockingly people will decalre their beliefs on here. I want to know why people come on here to declare their non-beliefs, unless it's just a lame attempt to get attention.
So pred, you just judged someone on one statement they made and decided they're not mature....
Um, derp? I didn't write the 3:44 post. It was the same asshole that's been steadling other people's handles the last few days. I am not a Christian, and I don't fucking care to have my ID stolen by some immature wibble who is on summer break from elementary school.
pred: Is FOX paying you to come here and judge people? Rather hypocritical.
" I want to know why people come on here to declare their non-beliefs, unless it's just a lame attempt to get attention."
Why do you care?? We're not asking why christards come here when it's not specifically a christard blog.
@pred, (reposted)
Shockingly some will read about this blog:
About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team and frequent posts from religion scholar and author Stephen Prothero.
it was dumb anywayz
Yes it was dumb, self centered, secular, by hindu secular s, crook self centered to fool human in to hindu gay ism, secular ism, denial of truth absolute GOD.
The real lol?? didn't write that.
Given your standard gibberish, you're worried about that one ?
Yes it was dumb, self centered, secular, by muslim secular s, crook self centered to fool human in to muslim gay ism, secular ism, denial of truth absolute GOD.
Hindus are much better people than muslims. One sick Hindu using one arm can easily beat the shit out of three Muslims. Truth absolute. And ism to boot.
Is a community a subset of commune, like in commie mommism??
Cue the crazed mouth frothing fundies proclaiming the world's end.
You must have missed the 1,000 year buffer, dude.
You're safe til you pump the last gulp of air......................................Maybe.
I don't find any "special" ministries in scripture tor the GUO's. (given up ones)
Die.
There goes the neighborhood Mr. Rogers! Sure glad I chose to watch 'super heroes' imagery then a silly willy neighbor (if one gets the drifting of thought waves).
Behave, ELMO!!
lol??
Do tell? Cookie Monster lurks amid your dreams once dreamt. 😮
Does anybody ever wonder what ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION is actually like? Where he works, what his hobbies are, what restaurants/bars does he frequent, etc? What does a troll of such epic magnitude do when not trolling, what makes him tick?
I have heard that trolls spend most of their time under bridges. If he is not under a bridge then I hope he spends his free time watching his wife get banged by some Hindu guy.
Sign of hinduism ignorance of a hindu loser secular self centered.
ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION
Would you like a hug?
I will take that to mean that he spends his time watching his wife get banged by a Hindu guy while under a bridge.
No, I prefer to bug, hindu secular s, ignorant self centered. till they start to realize importance of truth absolute in life. Way of human, not of monkeys, secular, self centered by nature, they claim to be children of.
ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION
Don't be afraid to ask for a hug.
I always assumed he was just some poor guy with schizophrenia and ignored him. But rereading the posts they look more staged than I'd noticed. Not sure the motivation.
He's a silly muslim wanna-be blogger named Mohammad A. Dar who lives in Pakistan and wastes time trolling US sites whining about hindus (when he's not palling around with his Pakistani buddies on local boards as 'Yakobi'). He's likely hunched over a cheap ass monitor in a dark room somewhere, muttering to himself about hindus while he unsuccessfully tries to navigate the most basic rules of english.
He's a waste of skin, basically.
Thank you for defining a hindu, use less, but, well I am not.
Thank you for defining a muslim, use less, but, well I am.
he's biomass.
Mohammad A. Dar is low caste muslim Chamar (hindu convert), illegitimate son of Surjeet, follower of Yazid, nothing more.
I am a conservative, Bible-believing Christian who does not agree with the so-called marriage movement going on today, but I am thankful this group is being shut down.
I also realize I'm going to get negative feedback for the first part of that statement. Such is life.
It's not your fault, Neal. It's the way you were raised and you can't change.
Gays are always "gay first" and everything else second. God doesn't play second fiddle. You sir. should be a Christian conservative. You made the same mistake.
Athy
It's partly his fault and any opinion can be changed under the right circ.umstances.
"Neal Dakota"
Is that your gay p o r n name?
I can understand that as a Christian you would believe that being gay is a sin, even if I don't agree with that. What I don't understand is why you think that gives you the right to try and pass laws to keep gay people from having the same rights as you. Why not just live and let live?
"marriage movement"
Not quite the right phrase. Better would be 'equal rights movement'.
@Athy,
Actually, I was an atheist until 3 years ago.
@Truth,
Depends on your definition of equal.
@Pete,
My beliefs inform everything about my life. From the way I conduct myself at work, to the way I prioritize my relationships over material gain, to the recognition of myself as the worst of all sinners. Asking me to set aside my beliefs in the voting arena would be asking me not to vote at all. And that sounds a little intolerant.
Yup TP, Equal, the opportunity destroyer chalks up another one.
Neal, why do you feel you have to control the lives of other people who intend you no harm whatsoever? They just want to have the same rights as you have. I'm afraid you're going to be deeply disappointed when the Supreme Court announces their decision in the next couple of weeks.
@Athy,
You assume too much. Conservative Christian does not mean republican or strong political ties. I have none. Gay marriage is coming, I'm well aware of that. I'm not trying to stop anyone from doing anything. Just as you, and every gay marriage proponent has the right to express their views, so do I.
Everyone regardless of gender, religion, sexual orientation. All gays are doing is fighting for the same rights that a hetero couple has. The only people who seem to have an issue with that are christians and all christians base this off of is a 2000 year old outdated book that was written by man, inspired by man and that has been proven to b largely wrong (very few actual facts are contained within those pages).
That's just it, though, Neal – they're your beliefs. Not everyone shares them. So when you vote on the rights of others to purposely make sure they are a reflection of yourself and your beliefs, that's immoral.
"to the recognition of myself as the worst of all sinners"
Wow, that sucks. I seriously feel bad for you.
Who fed you that garbage?
Neal, how would you vote on a law that would allow gays to marry in your state? For or against?
This time NASA should demand an oath about s*exual orientation. Don't need no stinkin' confused astronuts foulin' up a mission because the old lady has their emotions in a dither.
Vote the usurper mobsters out. God does the joining, not Al Caponie and pals.
It amazes me in this day and age of huge technologies that we actually have voters that believe in some princess in the clouds. Voters should have to take a test in order to register. That will weed them out.
TP,
I'd also like you to elaborate on these errors that you've found in the Bible...I'd be happy to discuss them with you in a civil and respectful manner.
derp,
It's not garbage. I am a lying, stealing, hater of men, adulter (physically and at heart) with a bend for arrogance, pride and jealousy. I just want to make some room for others down here by the stream.
Sam,
Wouldn't it also be your belief that I can't vote according to my belief? Whose beliefs are right? Tolerance necessitates disagreement.
Athy,
If it was a single law to vote on, against. I would not and do not allow this issue to determine my candidate, however. As an example, I didn't vote for Romney.
Jesus never said a word about gay people. So people who are tryong to like on a Christ-like manner should remember that.
Jesus also said render that which is Caesar's unto Caesar, and that which is God's unto God. (Paraphrasing here.) In other words, stay out of government. Great words. Live it.
What a novel approach to liberty, dave!!
BBBbbbbwaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha You went to the Frankfurt School?? See Bloom there??
So, Neal, my comment at 3:41 pm was not assuming too much, was it? You really would like to deny rights to some individuals, but not others. At least you're honest. Misguided, but honest.
Tec,
To make your claim, that the recorded statements of Jesus say nothing about gay marriage, you're trusting the authority of the four gospels – but not the rest of the New Testament. I don't think I really have to comment how an argument from silence proves nothing, either.
I just don't understand that mindset. There are things that I don't like, and so I just don't do them. I would never vote to ban something for no other reason than I think it is wrong, unless of course people are being harmed in someway. Is it your contention that gay marriage is harmful in someway?
Neal, if your beliefs include banning potential happiness/security/etc for others, then no, it should not be tolerated.
Recorded? As in, directly from the alleged jesus' mouth via a reliable scribe to preserved media? Where can these "recordings" be found?
Banning the virgin sacrifices to the sun gods would encroach on the happiness of the priests and make the entire village agitated!!
@Neal, you are doing a good job in expressing your opinion. Don't let the haters get you down.
They are all about the freedom of expression as long as it agrees with their views. For some reason they have this idiotic notion that if you have a belief based on faith that you must have some secret agenda you are not showing.
I loved the one idiot that tried to trap you with the "how would you vote" angle. How is it their business on how you would vote? Seems they are wanting to influence you through some kind of guilt or shame. It's a losing approach if they actually believe in the freedom of expression.
Neal, I agree with you one hundred percent. Nothing disgusts me more than those types that have been pushing their beliefs. I'd be right along side you voting. I'm tired of being persecuted or people not believing in Jesus.
Swain, disagreeing with someone is not 'hate'. Hyperbole is fun, though, and I'm sure Neal appreciates you white-knighting him.
I am of the opinion that voting to keep a segment of society from enjoying the same rights as everyone else goes against everything this country supposedly stands for.
Gubmints involved in God's business of joining is just plain ol' fashioned traditions of men in action. You see the results from these pharisees and the tragedies they have caused.
Neal, I try to live my life by the red words, for without Christ, there would BE no Christianity. I don't think I should have to state that assuming what Jesus *meant* with out stating it openly, as he did about so many other things, is really the argument from ignorance.
He said nothing about gays, He said nothing about abortion, He said nothing about most of the things Christians object to while hiding behind the Bible.
I aspire to live as Jesus did; inclusive of people. I am sorry that you don't.
@sam- "disagreeing with someone is not 'hate'."
I agree, though you might want to aim those thoughts toward the others on here. Many are disagreeing with him at the risk of becoming hypocrites. I haven't really seen where Neal thinks the nation should run off his own views but there are some reading challenged commentors on here that don't seem to get that.
"I'm sure Neal appreciates you white-knighting him."
So it's white-knighting when you support them expressing their views? You must white-knight for so many on here.
It doesn't matter why one would vote against gay marriage. It could be because you think jesus is against it (and, of course, as a christian, you would have to follow jesus, like a little sheep without a mind of its own) or it could be because it's just your own opinion, not based on religion at all. Maybe you just hate gays, I don't know. A vote is a vote either way. And, either way, voting against gay marriage is an attempt to deny rights to someone who cannot possibly do you any harm.
Somebody stole my handle with that cloud comment. Probably lol?? as he was the only person to react to it, although it could be anybody.
Athy, why is the marriage business your business or your reps??
"Seems they are wanting to influence you through some kind of guilt or shame. It's a losing approach if they actually believe in the freedom of expression."
In the same way that we would want to shame white supremacists for their bigoted beliefs (which they use the bible to support) and the same way would seek to shame neo nazi's for their bigoted beliefs (which they use the bible to support).
You are free to express your biblical bigotry, I am free to shame you for basing your beliefs on a bigoted outdated collection of religious fables.
At some point you are going to have to step out of the first century. Until you do, we will exercise our right to point out how horribly an inhuman position you have taken.
Sure, Swain. It's great of you to support his views against 'haters' and 'idiots'. Way to go. You are a really great guy, as usual. That's the best way to agree with someone. When they disagree, they're haters and idiots. Good call.
A little defensive, though. Sorry if there's any bad memories of white knights in your past.
@sam- "When they disagree, they're haters and idiots. Good call."
Ignoring all the needles fluff your post had in it...they are idiots when they become willing hypocrites to their own beliefs on our system. They act as champions of free expression till it goes against them and want to squash it. They are hypocrites and if do so willingly....they are idiots.
"A little defensive, though. Sorry if there's any bad memories of white knights in your past."
I think you are confused about what defensive means. You directed you initial comment to me when I made no direct comment about you. If anyone is reacting in a defensive posture...it is you, especially with the whole white-knight angle. You could do better.
@derp- "In the same way that we would want to shame white supremacists..... neo nazi's...."
Interesting. So you are comparing the opinion of a person that has no desire to go beyond the legal means of expression to those that did go beyond the legal means of their nation to express themselves? I consider that a fail on your part.
"You are free to express your biblical bigotry,"
I have no biblical bigotry. But thanks for guessing blindly.
"I am free to shame you for basing your beliefs on a bigoted outdated collection of religious fables."
And I am free to point out you have no idea what you are talking about.
"At some point you are going to have to step out of the first century."
Been living in the here an now for quite some time. Watch you ad hominems grasshopper.
@Athy- "It doesn't matter why one would vote against gay marriage."
That's a rather closed minded approach isn't it? That's no better than someone saying, "It doesn't matter why one would vote for g a y marriage." The reasons for "why" are vital in understanding how other people (and therefor the culture at large) thinks.
Athy,
I think you're underestimating and simplifying what law is. Law is not simply a set of do's and don't, but is always informed by the beliefs of those who put the law in place that they are for the betterment of society. My religious beliefs tell me to be against war and the death penalty – because my religious beliefs inform that, should I no longer be an advocate against those things? Or should I only stop being an advocate for the things you disagree with?
Sam,
What is happiness? Happiness is a fleeting emotion that can change with the tides.
Pete,
I again point you back to previous examples. When psychologists argue for the legalization of child-adult marriages – will you use that same logic?
Tec,
Red-letter Christianity is dangerous at best. Those words were written by the same men who wrote the surrounding text in black. Luke, who wrote many of the great parables which you probably love, was a disciple of Paul. Why would I then only trust what Luke records as Jesus' words, and not the surrounding black text nor the teachings of the one who discipled him? Further, even if you were to only follow the red ink, you would know that Christ's inclusivity is exclusive towards those who do not die to themselves and love him by keeping his commandments.
Swain,
I appreciate your support, but they're not haters. This is a sensitive subject and I appreciate everyone's honesty, whether we agree or not.
Athy (again),
"Thinking for yourself", as you like to call it (freedom from religion), is not thinking for yourself at all. It's only picking a different lie and god you want to serve.
I'm getting pulled into meetings, so I have to run. I've appreciated everyone's thoughtful and mostly civil discussion. I hope I was respectful to all involved, please forgive me if I did anything hurtful.
If you'd like to converse further, I would love to do so. I wrote an article about this here: http://goingtodamasc.us/why-the-marriage-debate-has-already-destroyed-us/
Swain,
"They act as champions of free expression till it goes against them and want to squash it. They are hypocrites and if do so willingly....they are idiots."
You would never do anything like that. That would be crazy. You are a really righteous upstanding citizen....when you agree with someone.
Great job on trying to turn the whole 'defensive' thing around. You are so great at pretzel logic. You're not coming off like a grouchy old curmudgeon at all. There was nothing defensive or bristly about your response, what was I thinking?
"What is happiness? Happiness is a fleeting emotion that can change with the tides"
Neal...that was a non-answer that totally skirted the issue. So I suppose I'll happily leave my question as rhetorical.
Neal Dakota
Do you realize that anybody who equates gay marriage between consenting adults with a child-adult relationship automatically loses any argument they were trying to make?
Neal (if you return to this thread), please explain how a law against gay marriage can lead to the betterment of society. Be specific, exactly how is society made better by denying the right of marriage to gay couples?
@sam- "You would never do anything like that. That would be crazy. You are a really righteous upstanding citizen....when you agree with someone."
I didn't know this was a discussion about what one would or would not do. I thought we were discussing about how people have behaved in the course of this topic.
Whether I agree or disagree with Neal is as irrelevant as if I agreed or disagreed with you. I have merely pointed out that there are those that preach the ideals of free expression but condemn the practice when those they disagree with do it.
"You're not coming off like a grouchy old curmudgeon at all."
Your interpretation of how I am on such scant info as a few comments on this blog is irrelevant.
"There was nothing defensive or bristly about your response, what was I thinking?"
I question if you have been thinking much at all beyond trying to one up me. If that is your only goal on here, I suspect you will end up displeased.
I made Neal a believer. I have that effect on a lot of men.
No need to explain yourself, Swain. You've totally put all the haters and idiots in their place. We're all in awe of you.
@sam- whatever fills you with awe is irrelevant to the considerations of truth.
Thanks, Kelly. Good example of the average pride of a Christian. I thought god did the calling and the choosing and the softening of the heart. I'm sure he'll forgive you for taking all the credit for what he did, though.
Swain, you poet.
sam, I could always make my speech more crude and course if that is what you are more accustomed to.
*coarse
Don't you dare start talking dirty to me; we'll never get out of here, then.
I'll leave that to your spouse.
Wow...well, things continue to move slowly in the right direction.
hindrance to truth is called hinduism, denial of truth, known as negativity, and right means truth absolute, no need to hind corrupt word right, to please a hindu soul, ignorant desire.
hindrance to truth is called islamism, denial of truth, known as negativity, and right means truth absolute, no need to hind corrupt word right, to please a muslim soul, ignorant desire.
Well isn't that just fancy news how bout that boys? Now we can be free!
Imaginary guitar notes and imaginary vocals exist only in the imagination of the imaginer.
I imagine that's true.
Vain imaginations are like buttocks.
"Vain imaginations are like buttocks"
Your face is in between my vain imaginations?
Hey, I don't want to cook other people but that's what the book tell's me to. I mean, it's not us who like eating people, it's the book! Don't blame the waiter man, blame the chef, and the chef is an all powerful alien so you better watch out...
"How To Serve Man"
It is either an old "Outer Limits" or an old "Twilight Zone" show.
Hey, I don't want to judge other people but that's what the book tell's me to. I mean, it's not us who like discriminating against people, it's the book! Don't blame the messenger man, blame the author, and the author is an all powerful God so you better watch out...
@How,
"that's what the book tell's me to"
Why on Earth would you put an apostrophe in "tells"?
@I don't get it
Its caled a typ. Wold you lik somone to expalin?
Saraswati,
Perhaps a typo, but I see it way, way too often - can't imagine that so many folks would insert an apostrophe like that by a simple slip of the finger.
There's a difference between a typo and a genuine grammar, semantic mistake. A typo is a slip of the finger, where the person would be aware of the mistake and wouldn't make it while writing normally. A genuine grammar error would be a mistake in the person's understanding of English. Tell's strikes me as the latter, although I could be wrong.
It's hard to imagine that "tell's" would be a typo. It's a basic lack of knowing how to conjugate a verb.
As interesting as the debate over my grammar is, do none of you have anything to say about the content of my comment?
Yes, I understand that "tell's" is incorrect and of course I was not meaning "tell is".
How To Serve Man
It's fun to deviate from the usual "You'll burn in hell, religious people are retards" debate.
Ho.mophones are very common typos. Many people hear the word first.
Words written in bible represent mind set of a hindu, secular, crook self centered writer hundreds of years after Easu, anointed one, corresponding not to essence of teachings, but plot to justify hindu Mithra ism, pagan savior ism, in violation of spirit of true teachings. What counts is, the path of writing directs to, truth absolute, or use of truth absolute to justify hinduism, denial of truth absolute.
Your cult is based on the bible. The end.
Take your roadshow somewhere else Mohammad Pigamber (means prophet in Urdu), son of Yazid.
Islam bot suffering from hurting head ism. Can't see forest ism for the trees isms.
Nothing better is expected from a hindu secular, ignorant self centered by faith, but his hindu gandu ism, ignorant atheism, self center ism, denial of truth in life.
You, sir, are a moron.
Word Moran means a hindu secular, criminal self centered, or a pig, sorry guy, self centered, no hindu atheist, crook self centered, denier of truth absolute here.
Word Moran means a muslim secular, criminal self centered, or a pig, sorry guy, self centered, no muslim atheist, crook self centered, denier of truth absolute here.