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July 8th, 2013
12:37 PM ET

Christian school mourns Asiana crash victims

West Hills, California (CNN) - A Los Angeles Christian church and school that had planned two host two Chinese students who died in Saturday's Asiana 214 crash in San Francisco grieved at a worship service on Sunday.

West Valley Christian School says 35 Chinese students on the Asiana flight were scheduled to live with church families and join its youth summer camp, where they would learn about American culture and improve English fluency.

"We want to grieve. We want to be real and we want love these families that have lost their loved ones,” Derek Swales, a school administrator, told KCAL, a CNN affiliate.

The school's church, West Valley Christian Church, invited former and current host families to attend a prayer vigil on Thursday.

Ye Mengyuan and Wang Linjia, both 16, were close friends. Both died on Saturday's crash.

Investigators looking into the fatal crash of Asiana Airlines Flight 214 are focusing on the crew and aircraft as they try to understand why the giant jet clipped the end of runway before crashing, the chairwoman of the National Transportation Safety Board said Monday.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: China • China • Christianity • Death

soundoff (427 Responses)
  1. Observer

    Bill Deacon

    You said it is "Not good" for children to live in the homes of divorced-and-remarried Christian adulterers.

    Christians angrily protest against gays and spend millions and millions of dollars to try to deny them the right to marry.

    So where is all the Christian outrage? Where are all the protests against Christian adulterers? Where are millions and millions of dollars to deny Christians the right to remarry after divorce?

    There are far far more Christians who are remarried adulterers than there are total gays. Why are Christians not screaming about this?

    Do you have any answer other than world-class HYPOCRISY?

    July 9, 2013 at 10:54 am |
    • William Demuth

      Bill rails against personal freedoms in intimate relations whilst being a member of a cult that has more Altar Boy blood on their junk than NAMBLA

      Christianity is a cult of closeted deviants whose preferred targets are little boys rear ends and old ladies bank accounts.

      July 9, 2013 at 11:00 am |
    • Torquemada

      Never mind the inquisitions and wars and torture and oppression that makes Catholicism the Christian version of radical fundamentalist Islam

      July 9, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      I cannot answer for all Christian faiths Observer. I'm a Catholic. The Catholic support for the sacrament of marriage, i think is the gold standard. The Catholic Church acknowledges the the civil authority power to marry and divorce people but a civil divorce does not annul a Catholic marriage. Catholics who are divorced but not annulled are encouraged not to receive communion until their have received spiritual instruction which may include an annulment. Catholics who divorce and remarry outside the Church are in a state of mortal sin.

      July 9, 2013 at 11:21 am |
    • Observer

      Bill Deacon

      An annulment is the pretension that a marriage never took place even though the original marriage and ceremony was likely just like any other performed by the Catholic church.

      So does this eliminate adultery even though the previous "non-marriage" actually could have involved having s3x?

      July 9, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • Torquemada

      Where in the Bible does it say that people who marry outside the church are sinners?

      July 9, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Torquemada, you're out of your league.

      Observer, could you ask the question a little differently? I'm not sure what you mean. Once adultery is committed, it can't be uncommitted. But for all sins, reconciliation is available. Do you mean is the new marriage sacramental if an annulment is granted after the new arrangement is consummated? I think no. But I would defer to a priest or someone experienced with canonical law. Most of the misunderstanding about the Catholic faith in general and annulments in particular stem from hearsay like I am practicing at the moment. There is not a blanket answer, although general conditions prevail.

      July 9, 2013 at 12:10 pm |
    • Torquemada

      Translation: "I can't answer your question, so I will go ad hominem instead."

      Major fail.

      July 9, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Bill, do you think divorce and remarriage should be illegal in the US? If you were to vote on a referendum on the issue, how would you vote?

      July 9, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
    • derp

      "Catholics who divorce and remarry outside the Church are in a state of mortal sin"

      My sister in law divorced her heroin addicted, cheating, child and wife beating husband.

      When she wanted to remarry, she could not afford the bribe that the catholic church wanted in order to annul her first marriage.

      They were willing to take her money and let her children in their school after the divorce, but they would not annul her marriage.

      She has been happily married for twenty years now and her second husband raised the kids.

      The catholic church still somehow thinks she is a "mortal sinner".

      That is all you need to know about that remarkably pathetic excuse for a religion.

      July 9, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • lol??

      lol??
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      Beasties are "in charge" of marriage, define the roles, and back up their concerns with guns, courts, and mob power. Even Christians are subject to the travesty. Bullies like the equality of their rule. It's been a big FAIL of their do-gooderism.

      July 9, 2013 at 2:14 pm | Report abuse |
      lol??
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      Abe didn't put his marriage under the power of Sodom.

      July 9, 2013 at 6:01 pm |
  2. Thought Purification

    RIP

    July 9, 2013 at 10:11 am |
  3. tallulah13

    No matter your personal belief, this is a very sad turn of events. I hope those girls didn't suffer, and I hope their parents find comfort, even if its from something I don't personally believe in.

    July 9, 2013 at 12:38 am |
    • William Demuth

      To survive the crash and be run down by the rescue truck

      Their appears to be God who has a bizarre sense of humor??

      July 9, 2013 at 7:56 am |
    • William Demuth

      Theirs appears (Typo)

      July 9, 2013 at 8:15 am |
    • tallulah13

      Have they proven that, or is it still conjecture? I've been unable to find that information. Pretty terrible if true.

      Anyway, my original sentiment remains the same. I hope the girls didn't suffer and I hope their parents find peace.

      July 9, 2013 at 9:43 am |
    • William Demuth

      The lawyers are EXTREMLY cautious about what they allowed to be said, but so far it looks like she was run over by a fire truck

      July 9, 2013 at 10:56 am |
  4. MrCrewel Dude

    Religion, ha, what is it good 4, absolutely nothing!

    July 9, 2013 at 12:30 am |
    • William Demuth

      Ain't nothing but a mind breaker!

      Friend only to the undertaker!

      July 9, 2013 at 8:18 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      This from two guys, one of whom repeatedly espouses violence against religious people. If the word "religion" can be so casually substiituted in place of the word "war" in a pop song, there can be no denying that we now call evil good and good evil.

      July 9, 2013 at 9:06 am |
    • from Steve Weinberg

      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

      July 9, 2013 at 9:22 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Look around you Steve. There are no good people. Not one.

      July 9, 2013 at 10:45 am |
    • Pete

      "Look around you Steve. There are no good people. Not one."

      This is a great example of how religion makes people have such a negative outlook on life.

      July 9, 2013 at 10:47 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      I am good people Bill, Your opinion is insignificant.
      You are not good people Bill, you like to defend the most corrupt organization in the world, and your faith makes you think that you are a sinner in need of salvation.
      I do not have those delusions, and I do many good things. I know I am a good person.
      You might be using a different definition of good if you do not know any good people. I know many.

      July 9, 2013 at 10:50 am |
    • William Demuth

      Mr Deacon

      Religion is war, and war is religion

      Killing in the name of your preferred Sky Fairy is a time honored tradition.

      July 9, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Cranium, I think it's interesting that you find my view insignificant. I suspect that when your life is measured there will be some who find your view of yourself the same.

      July 9, 2013 at 11:24 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      When an atheist tells you he is a "good" person, a little inquiry will reveal some facts. Eventually our friend will admit that while he is not a "perfect" person and has, in fact committed some errors, what he means to tell you is that on balance, he thinks he is an ok person. At least in comparison to his neighbor, whom he judges from his lofty perch, he seems to be doing ok. In comparison to a standard of eternal, absolute goodness ( shall we call it sanctiity?), he admits he is not really any better than other folks whom he acknowledges as good, but who themselves claim to be sinners. What our friend is really arguing for is that he is "good enough". But good enough for what? Certainly not good enough to taint the sanctiity of absolute goodness. We are then forced to recognize that what our friend is arguing for is not goodness but mediocrity. He would limit the possibility that we might achieve perfection, even if that is only available to us after death, by saying "good enough is good enough". I, myself, might be interested in atheism but I cannot abide a philosophy that limits me to mediocrity.

      July 9, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
    • derp

      "I, myself, might be interested in atheism but I cannot abide a philosophy that limits me to mediocrity"

      Says the idiot whose faith predicts, demands, and accepts less than mediocrity.

      After all Bill, you are a lowly sinner, undeserving of the grace of god.

      If not for jeebus, you'd be going to hell.

      July 9, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
  5. the AnViL™

    every person on earth who believes in the literal existence of gods is delusional.

    those who persist in these beliefs should be prohibited from voting, serving on juries, running for or holding any public office, purchasing or owning firearms, teaching public school, or having any contact with children under the age of 18.

    there are absolutely no gods – and that's a flat fact.

    tolerance of religious idiocy is coming to an end - and not soon enough.

    July 9, 2013 at 12:21 am |
    • Austin

      Anvil, you are going to hell.

      You are the most arrogant and wrong person, flagrantly obscene and a liar. Anvil, your pride and arrogance is guilty as charged, and your heart is vile with enmity for the creator God.

      July 9, 2013 at 12:43 am |
    • the AnViL™

      Austin, there is no hell.

      you are mentally ill.

      seek competent psychiatric care.

      July 9, 2013 at 1:52 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I've wondered if there are moments when even the most throbbing member of the Christian faith (or Islam, for that matter) has stopped to think how contrived and implausible eternal torment by burning in a lake of fire really is. Do they ever have moments of clarity?

      July 9, 2013 at 2:09 am |
    • William Demuth

      No Tom, in truth they don't

      Crazy goes deep, in many all the way through, like a cancer of some sort.

      Once they have it, you either catch it early and cut it out, or you may as well dig a them mental grave

      July 9, 2013 at 7:53 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      I am the same way Tom. I have from time to time wondered if event he most intellectual atheist ever ponders the notion that "burning for eternity in a lake of fire" is an allegory describing the sort of spiritual torment one finds themselves in as a consequence of their behavior and choices.

      July 9, 2013 at 9:09 am |
    • Ian Bock

      Survey some number of Christians, especially across the many crazy Christian sects, from Catholics to Baptists, and you will find radical differences in regard to what is seen to be allegorical and what should be taken as narrative or a direct command. Odd that a "god" can't get his message out uniformly. Christianity is clearly a human invention, as this situation and many other points make clear to those with the courage and the ability to reason.

      July 9, 2013 at 9:31 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Yeah, personally, I blame Luther

      July 9, 2013 at 10:29 am |
    • Doomed Dude

      Okay, I die, my soul leaves my body behind, and off I go. Like Heinrich Himmler, God decides I am to be thrown into his concentration camp lake-of-fire.

      But all my sensory apparatus is in my body, so it doesn't hurt.

      Nice thinking, Jesus.

      July 9, 2013 at 11:04 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      You seem ridiculous but you bring up an interesting point. Is the only pain you are capable of feeling that which afflicts your body?

      July 9, 2013 at 11:07 am |
    • Doobs

      @ Bill Deacon

      "You seem ridiculous..."

      You are such a hypocrite. You are quick to point out what you claim are fallacies in other posts, but freely use ad hominems in your own.

      July 9, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
  6. GodFreeNow

    Christians will explain the crash as "god's will." The critical thinkers will however rely on science for an explanation.

    This is a visceral story. I am still amazed how a plane crash gets so much attention. Homicide, traffic accidents and accidental poisoning are some of the leading killers of teenagers today—most of which are preventable.

    Death is almost always a tragedy. And for the record, there are 150,000+ of them everyday. The human morbidity of trying to make one death more important than another is really fascinating to watch.

    July 9, 2013 at 12:07 am |
  7. Observer

    fred,

    According to the Bible a slave owner could take a rod and break the arms and legs of a female slave without any penalty if she didn't die in a day or two.

    Justify that crap.

    Still waiting.

    July 8, 2013 at 8:53 pm |
    • Athy

      Fred. Oh, fred, where are you?

      July 8, 2013 at 9:24 pm |
    • Observer

      Fred,

      Hiding from the truth?

      July 8, 2013 at 10:07 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Observer,

      What book, chapter & verse?

      July 8, 2013 at 10:27 pm |
    • Observer

      Exodus 21:20-21 “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property” [God]

      July 8, 2013 at 10:59 pm |
    • Roger that

      What book, chapter & verse?

      It only takes about 45 seconds to find it if you try.

      July 8, 2013 at 11:06 pm |
    • lol??

      observer is hallucinating.

      "............break the arms and legs............"????

      July 8, 2013 at 11:13 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Beatings appear to have been a problem for the ancient Hebrews, particularly males beating females and people beating their slaves. Basically it all seems to have been OK as long as no one died or lost an eye or a tooth.

      July 8, 2013 at 11:14 pm |
    • Observer

      lol??

      "observer is hallucinating. "............break the arms and legs............"????"

      Are you halluncinating or just incredibly ignorant? Maybe you just lack logic and common sense.

      Breaking arms and legs must be included as long as the female slave doesn't "die in a day or so"

      July 8, 2013 at 11:20 pm |
    • lol??

      Sure , trust the hallucinators for interpretations.

      July 8, 2013 at 11:22 pm |
    • Observer

      typo: should be "hallucinating"

      July 8, 2013 at 11:22 pm |
    • Observer

      lol??,

      I was right. So the answer is INCREDIBLY IGNORANT.

      July 8, 2013 at 11:24 pm |
    • lol??

      Exd 21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.

      July 8, 2013 at 11:46 pm |
    • Observer

      lol??,

      I never said there was no penalty for KILLING your slave. My statement was 100% correct.

      Hallucinating?

      July 9, 2013 at 12:03 am |
  8. Observer

    Captain Obsever,

    That would have been funnier if you knew how to spell.

    July 8, 2013 at 8:03 pm |
  9. Captain Obsever

    We are sooooo much better than dirty and stupid religious people. They resort to name calling and using derogatory names all the time. Why can't those idiots act like decent people, like us?

    July 8, 2013 at 8:00 pm |
  10. Jeff

    Is no article off limits? I just do not understand why every article that mentions Christianity has to unleash the atheist horde on this blog.

    Please...can you all go and debate religion on another article? The only comments that need to be made here should be to offer comfort to those that have lost loved ones in this tragedy...whether you believe the same as they do or not is irrelevant.

    July 8, 2013 at 5:30 pm |
    • Regular viewer

      I agree there are other articles available besides this one better suited.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Did you read the very first posting? The tone and direction was set by someone not likely to be an atheist.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:56 pm |
    • Jeff

      I had not read the first post...my sincere apologies for offending...

      I should have known though...too many duck and cover 'Christians' that post on here to illicit a response from atheists only to never be heard from again. This quote is very unfortunate...and very true:

      “The single greatest cause of atheism in the world today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."

      ...again, my apologies for posting without reading the initial comment made on this article.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:07 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Seems he just beat everyone to the punch and that frustrated them because he pegged them all correctly.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:08 pm |
    • Jimmy G.

      –Jeff
      This is not some sort of official emo page where all the victims and families are supposed to, or required to, visit to receive messages of support.
      This is a comment page regarding the article above, nothing more.

      If you want to show you care, why not go somewhere else where you can contact these people DIRECTLY and give them whatever support you would like.

      THIS PLACE is a news website's religion-oriented blog – where anyone can come and comment for or against anything, including the harsh details of reality which many religious people, like yourself, cannot face squarely or rationally and which we will give you tons of crap for being that way.
      This is where you come for abuse, you masochistic fool, and you know it. So slurp it up and stop whining, you stupid troll.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Here is a harsh detail of reality..you are a jerk.

      "This is where you come for abuse, you masochistic fool, and you know it. So slurp it up and stop whining, you stupid troll."

      Just so pompous and for no reason other than to stroke his ego.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
    • jazzguitarman

      Jeff; I do agree with you that it is silly for atheist and Christians to debate the validity of their POV. Like either side is going to listen to the other. (standing one’s POV is one thing, trying to win someone over to it is the joke).

      My only comment related to this specific article is the concept of ‘god’s will’. To me the concept that some so called higher power influences events is folly. But I wonder if this plane would have been full of gays going to get married if some Christians here would of said this was all part of god’s plan.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
    • Jeff

      Wow Jimmy...angry much?

      My point is that this article can be a place to offer condolences and move on. Whether the victim's families of this tragedy ever read this blog is not important.

      I know how much intolerance takes place on these blogs and have been a part of many conversations. I just personally believe we don't need to bring up unrelated topics on an article like this.

      Enjoy your bitterness though...Twitter says I'm happier than you are, so it must be true...smh..

      July 8, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • Jeff

      Well said jazzguitarman...

      it's unfortunate really...our opinions differ, but the level of hate by some on both sides is staggering.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:24 pm |
    • Room 12

      ...
      M: Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!
      Q: OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.
      M: Oh, I see, well, that explains it.
      Q: Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.
      M: Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.
      Q: Not at all.
      M: Thank You.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:24 pm |
    • bostontola

      Room 12,
      One of the best MP skits ever.
      BTW, the OP was right, this is not a good article to argue unresolvable points. Even if baited by a Christian, you can still stay out of the muck.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:40 pm |
    • Jimmy G.

      lol, what a bunch of wailing whackos. Go push your sobbing elsewhere, thx.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:43 pm |
    • Jimmy G. is a troll

      Not that it's much of a shock.

      July 8, 2013 at 7:21 pm |
  11. Dyslexic doG

    Christians, please explain to me how your Bible can be the word of God? Please explain to me how you can live your life by its words and use those words to oppress other people? Please explain, given that the King James version of the new testament was completed in 1611 by 8 members of the church of England. There were (and still are) NO original texts to translate. The oldest manuscripts we have were written down 100's of years after the last apostle died. There are over 8,000 of these old manuscripts with no two alike. The king james translators used none of these anyway. Instead they edited previous translations to create a version their king and parliament would approve. So.... 21st century christians believe the "word of god" is a book edited in the 17th century from the 16th century translations of 8,000 contradictory copies of 4th century scrolls that claim to be copies of lost letters written in the 1st century.

    This is just a question about the Bible. It has nothing to do with whether you have a personal relationship with God or if he has changed your life. I want you to explain how you can treat the Bible any more seriously than just a collection of stories by men with ulterior motives of greed and power and subjugation of those they wanted to rule.

    All answers that do not retreat into mysticism will be gratefully accepted. Thanks! 🙂

    July 8, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I thought I might respond, except for two things. The first is I recognize this a a cut and paste question you recycle about every third week. So, it's not really a question as much as it is an antagonism The second which points back to the first is that in the first sentence you make a "begging the question" fallacy with the "oppression of others" presupposition.

      So, is your wife happier now that you've stopped beating her?

      July 8, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Good thing you didn't respond, then, Bill.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
    • Atheists galore

      Bill, do you accept Dog's factual assertions about the Bible, becuase, from what I know, what he says is pretty close to true (although I believe that the number of scholars involved in the KJ Bible translation was significantly more than 8)

      July 8, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Well his post is a little convoluted, so I rejected it. But if his issue is the number and variety of Bibles and the source of the original Scriptures, as well as the canonization of the Bible as we know it, I accept that those processes occurred but I do not accept that they invalidate the Bible. That would be like saying I don't trust trigonometry because it's omitted from my geometry book.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Jesus used the allegory of fathers and children, which is more apropos. What father and child are not brought closer in love by the father calling his children to meet their potential and the child's fulfillment in doing so?

      July 8, 2013 at 5:29 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      oops, meant for the other thread

      July 8, 2013 at 5:30 pm |
    • Regular viewer

      I've seen him post that before too. I never could figure out why ask someone else what to think? The bible isn't something I personally read but I'd think the next logical step much like anything else, is to read it and make up your own mind.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:31 pm |
    • Observer

      Bill Deacon,

      Jesus also said that people who divorce and remarry are adulterers.

      What kind of family environment is it for millions of Christian children to live in the homes of adulterers?

      July 8, 2013 at 5:32 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      @Bill

      I repost this (mine originally btw) in the hope of one day getting an idea of how Christians can believe this book as the word of god when it is such a blatantly man made tome.

      But, as ever, Christians insult me or say that I beat my wife (that's a new low, even for you) and dodge the question.

      I have yet to hear any sort of rational answer as to why Christians believe the bible as the word of god when it is such a blatantly man made tome.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Observer, the answer is "Not good".

      DD, I'm not claiming that you beat your wife. I'm making fun of your dumb question. I agree, begging the question is a low tactic and I wish you had not used it.

      July 9, 2013 at 10:36 am |
  12. Dyslexic doG

    "The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by H.Sapiens is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not receive this flattery. Yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive industries in history."
    - Robert Heinlein

    July 8, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • Colin

      Love that quote, Dog. I like this one, too, "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." – Isaac Asimov

      July 8, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      The Asimov is demonstrably true but the Heinlein is a mis-characterization.

      Ergo, Asimov> Heinlein

      July 8, 2013 at 4:42 pm |
    • Athy

      How is it a mischaracterization?

      July 8, 2013 at 4:45 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      No mischaracterization. Good quotation.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • pickle

      Page after page of evidence in the bible. I like those guys, it would be nice to meet them some day.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      How do you account for the requirement for praise and prayer by an omniscient being that is unchangeable in its perfection, Bill?

      July 8, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Using the actual tenets of Christianity, I think the three most obvious false claims are:

      1. That God wants adoration. The truth is that adoration is not for God's benefit, it is for ours. This alone nullifies the rest of the statement. But if we accept it:

      2. God want "saccharine" adoration. This is Heinlein's value judgement. Presuming he is talking about man's due sacrifice to God, the "saccharine" part doesn't actually apply. God seeks our hearts, our minds, our souls, our lives. Hardly saccharine unless Mr. Heinlein is sweeter than he is portrayed.

      3. "Least productive"? That assertion, though repeatedly made, is not really substantive. The Christianization of Europe, the Western Hemisphere and more recently portions of Africa and Asia can only be called nonproductive by the extremely biased or pathetically ignorant

      July 8, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Lol. Bible -od requires worship. To say that he doesn't want it is a bit of a lie, don't you think?

      Student A: The teacher said our report is due tomorrow in class.
      Student B: Yeah, but he doesn't want it.
      Student C: What???

      July 8, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      @Bill

      You've told some whoppers over the years but this one takes the cake!

      The bible is the word of god and the bible has hundreds if not thousands of verses saying Christians MUST praise him and praise him ever day and praise him in every way and adore him and love him and bring gifts for him and sacrifice for him .... and on ad infinitem!!!

      July 8, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Cpt, your example is perfect. Let me ask you. Who benefits from the report?

      July 8, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Oh, I agree that we must DD. But I maintain that it is not God who benefits from that requirement. It is us. Her is from teh catechism.

      2628 Adoration is the first attiitude of man acknowledging that he is a creature before his Creator. It exalts the greatness of the Lord who made us99 and the almighty power of the Savior who sets us free from evil. Adoration is homage of the spirit to the "King of Glory,"100 respectful silence in the presence of the "ever greater" God.101 Adoration of the thrice-holy and sovereign God of love blends with humility and gives assurance to our supplications.

      What the catechism is teaching is that we are made to love. We are made to love that which is good, indeed that which, without, we would know of no goodness at all. We are simply fulfilling our purpose when we love that which is the highest. But it not a payment made to a creditor, it is redeeming an internal account.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Bill, you idiot, both things can be true. The report does the student good AND the teacher good (the teacher gets information about the students progress). The teacher obviously wants the report if he requires it. Your hair-splitting rhetoric doesn't get you any traction, here. To say that your god doesn't want worship that he requires is idiocy and you should be ashamed of having said it.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Cpt, ok now you're getting it. It's relationship. The teacher assigns the report out of love for the student and to fulfill her purpose as a teacher. The student completes the report out of the need to please the teacher and learn the lesson. Both are gratified by the willing co-operation of the student and the compassionate care from the teacher.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:25 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Jesus used the allegory of fathers and children, which is more appropriate. What father and child are not brought closer in love by the father calling his children to meet their potential and the child's fulfillment in doing so?

      July 8, 2013 at 5:31 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Bill, I've had it the whole time. Chances are you'll never get it. If you think god requires something but it's wrong to say that he wants it, then you should be ashamed of your stupidity. It's sort of surprising that so many Christians lack such reasoning ability, but then I guess it's really not. You've had to warp your brain around your belief for so long that you don't seem to realize it when you're saying something extremely stupid.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:31 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Just how stupid is it for Bill to claim that teachers a.ssign their students reports out of "love?" LOL!!!!!!!

      July 8, 2013 at 5:33 pm |
    • Regular viewer

      Dg, as a non-Christian I am surprised you don't view your own post as being about as relevant as saying "Legolas is a jerk".

      July 8, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Any teachers want to weigh on on whether they love their students or not?

      July 8, 2013 at 5:43 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Cpt, I'm sorry you have such an inability to relate to anything outside your own understanding. I see that in your view, people do their jobs because they get paid or will get fired if they don't, children obey their parents so they won't get beaten and God requires worship or he'll burn you in hell. How sad and lonely that must be for you.

      I suppose on the one hand we could say God requires worship because he built that into us and would not have if he didn't think it was needed. But that indiicates that we and God are one and so I don't see how you can separate our needs from His. For my part, I know I am most content when I recognize that I am not reliant on my own limited ability but have an eternal source to draw from. As such, I am restored by spending time and thought with that source. Sorry you are not able to get it for yourself.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      I'm a flight instructor. The only student I loved is my wife. Students don't want or need love – they want. and need competent instruction that allows them to achieve their goals. I don't want my students to love me – I want them to become competent and safe pilots.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:51 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I think your concept of love may be a little narrow. If you are talking about romantic love then your response is appropriate. But I would argue that your desire to see your students become competent pilots is actually rooted in a broader definition of love. Certainly the people at the student center in this article didn't romantically love the Chinese girls they had never met. Nevertheless, they loved them in the sense that they are connected. They are diminished by their death and experience a loss of fellowship and grief.

      July 9, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Bill, your proclivity to assume whatever you want to and use terms in whatever way you choose and with poor reasoning decide what is and is not true for the entire universe saps the value out of any conversation you engage in. I try not to engage in worthless activities.

      Good bye and good luck.

      July 9, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
  13. William Demuth

    Deny?

    Does one deny Pinocchio or the Abominable Snowman?

    Praying to Christ is as effective as praying to the Loch Ness Monster.

    If it floats your boat, knock yourself out, but recognize it serves no purpose other than to salve a weak mind

    July 8, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Is there a religion to Pinocchio or the Abominable Snowman? Nope. Sorry, your point has no point.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:31 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Religions that posit an infinite and above-our-reasoning god don't have a point, either.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • ReligionIsBS

      Lycidas says "if its a religion, its true. Christianity? True! Islam? True! Zues? True!

      July 8, 2013 at 4:35 pm |
    • Colin

      Lycadus- that is his point. Pinocchio, Santa, the Easter Bunny have no independent existence outside of the literature that created them. Just like God, Shiva, Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, Zeus, Neptune etc.

      They are creatures of literature. Figments of man's imagination.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:35 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Ah, then we need a religion around something before we are unable to deny it for lack of evidence that it does not exist?

      July 8, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      When you argue that Santa Claus is imaginary, you are ignoring the real Saint Nicholas. Probably on purpose. But your use of the imaginary Santa as an argument against the historical is just as much a straw man as using it to argue against the existence of Jesus. Where did you say you taught Colin?

      July 8, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Cpt. Obvious- "Religions that posit an infinite and above-our-reasoning god don't have a point, either."

      Your opinion has been noted. However, religions do not have anything in common with characters from works of fiction that were made as charcters of fiction. There is no evidnece that anyone in the Torah, Tanakh or NT was created for the purposes of fiction.
      A person's opinion that people listed in the Bible is fictional is just that..an opinion devoid of fact. Now when they can produce some evidence that shows they are nothing more than mand-made fictional constructs, I would love to see it.

      @BS- Thank you for going off the rails and flat out lying. No where did I say that religion was true. But thanks for playing. You can now take your legos and go play in the corner with all your other friends.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Colin

      Bill Deacon – Well, back Santa out of the equation if you prefer. I am comfortable with God being like Pinoccio, Shiva and the other examples I used who have no original kernel of fact to them.

      Secondly, do not confuse God with Jesus. I strongly believe Jesus existed. I just do not think he had magic powers like raising from the dead, curing blindness etc.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • ReligionIsBS

      I dont play with legos, man, I worship them. Someone told me to once, so now thats what I do. And I behead anyone that draws legos. I also burn people for eternity if they dont love legos. Its your choioce. Thanks for playing.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
    • pickle

      The word of God floats my boat pretty good. I will have to hang around the cliff more often though, have a burger, lift weights.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      BD,

      St. Nicholas is my favorite saint. Patron saint of prosti tutes.

      Give new meaning to ho ho ho doesn’t it?

      July 8, 2013 at 4:53 pm |
    • Colin

      There is no evidnece that anyone in the Torah, Tanakh or NT was created for the purposes of fiction.
      A person's opinion that people listed in the Bible is fictional is just that..an opinion devoid of fact. Now when they can produce some evidence that shows they are nothing more than mand-made fictional constructs, I would love to see it.

      Let me try. Let's start with Adam and Eve. The World did not commence about 6,000 years ago with a man a woiman and a talking snake. It is 4.5 billion years old. Man evolved from H0m0 Ere.ctus in a well accepted speciation event in Africa about 200,000 years ago.

      Therefore, Cain, able and Seth (Adma and Eve's children) are also a myth.

      There was no worldwide flood with all animals on an ark about 4,000 years ago, therefore Noah and his famil are a myth. There is no evidence in Egyptian records of Jewish captivity or of the Jews wandering the Negev for 40 years. Moses and the other characters of Exodus is very likely myth. We wre not even out of the Pentatuch......

      July 8, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Colin- "like God, Shiva, Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, Zeus, Neptune etc. They are creatures of literature. Figments of man's imagination."

      You mean like Jesus, Socrates, Paul and Diogenes? They were only written about by few people from unreliable sources. They are figments of man's imagination as well right?

      July 8, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Colin- "Let's start with Adam and Eve."

      And thus starts the cherry picking. You can almost always guarntee that when the topic of the Bible being fictional comes up...the conversation will go to the book of Genesis.

      "The World did not commence about 6,000 years ago with a man a woiman and a talking snake. It is 4.5 billion years old."

      Agreed.

      "Man evolved from H0m0 Ere.ctus in a well accepted speciation event in Africa about 200,000 years ago."

      Sort of agree.

      "There is no evidence in Egyptian records of Jewish captivity or of the Jews wandering the Negev for 40 years. Moses and the other characters of Exodus is very likely myth. We wre not even out of the Pentatuch......"

      There is evidence from Egypt of the People of Israel though that does work historically within the Tanakh. Not saying it's proof of the Exodus or anything. Just pointing out that there were outside sources confirming the existence of Israel prior to the Kingdom of Israel.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Tom, Tom, the Other One- "then we need a religion around something before we are unable to deny it for lack of evidence that it does not exist?"

      Of course not. The point is that religion is not comparable to intentional fictional characters. Using such characters is ntohing more than an attempt at insult. It would be like comparing the relationship you have with your significant other to that of two babboons getting their freak on. It would be hard to defend that type of comparisson as unbiased on intent.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:40 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Colin has a sweet deal teaching anti-religion on the public dime. He can't afford to be open minded.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:42 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Religions have a sweet deal living off tithing . They can't afford to be open minded. Wouldn't want facts getting in the way of fabulous wealth.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:16 pm |
    • Transcendent

      Colin is actually a figment of God's imagination.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Lycidas, There are christians who claim the bible is literally true. The bible starts with Genesis so that seems the logical place to start. We have no evidence for, and we have plenty of evidence against, Genesis. Another important reason to start with Genesis is as the Adam and Eve story is not true then original sin did not happen, so why the need for Jesus to spend a few years on Earth to atone for it?

      July 8, 2013 at 6:22 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Religion is...

      Those who worship Lego know that it has no plural form with an "s". The canonical form of the plural is: "LEGO® brand building bricks and toys".

      July 8, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @In Santa we trust- "There are christians who claim the bible is literally true."

      And I would disagree with those that hold it to be 100% true.

      "Another important reason to start with Genesis is as the Adam and Eve story is not true then original sin did not happen, so why the need for Jesus to spend a few years on Earth to atone for it?"

      Some would say the atonement for sin in general.

      July 8, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
    • Colin

      Lycidas, I am confused. You said ". There is no evidnece that anyone in the Torah, Tanakh or NT was created for the purposes of fiction."

      You then immediately agreed with me that Adam and Eve are pure fiction. You contradict yourself.

      July 8, 2013 at 9:59 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Colin- I am sure you are confused.

      I did say, "There is no evidnece that anyone in the Torah, Tanakh or NT was created for the purposes of fiction."
      This is a true statement.

      You said, "You then immediately agreed with me that Adam and Eve are pure fiction. You contradict yourself."

      No, I did not say they were pure fiction. I did admit that I do not believe they existed as the Book of Genesis states. Also, I do not believe anyone sat down and made them up for the purpose of fiction. There is no contradiction.

      I might also add that you should be careful of the ol atheist bait and switch that happens on here far too much. Genesis is not the Bible. The Bible is not Genesis. Just because one does not believe in the factual truth of Genesis does not mean they feel the entire collection of books known as the Bible is devoid of facts.

      July 9, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Just because bible believers MUST pick and choose which parts to believe doesn't mean that it's easy. Doctrines abound in order to give a framework to what is believed and not believed. Of course, anyone can do this with any fictional character or stories of that character. I, for one, do not think that the longevity of a story lends it factual credence. The longevity of a story depends on the survivability of its elements--how many humans see analogous elements within the myth.

      Most myths seem very unlikely in our present age, but to say that gives them credence is ridiculous because that means we must consider that the earth might be flat, the stars might be sparkling-ancestor-souls, and so on... If a character cannot be proven to exist, then we are within our rights to compare that character to others that cannot be proven to exist. Strength of a myth is an entirely different subject.

      July 9, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Cpt. Obvious- "Of course, anyone can do this with any fictional character or stories of that character."

      Of course this is a silly statement because no one actually does that with any fictional character. I mean, how many of you go around the Harry Potter series of say what's "real" or not "real". Easy...no one does so this strawman falls apart quite simply.

      "I, for one, do not think that the longevity of a story lends it factual credence."

      No one on here implied that longevity elnds to factual credence.

      "If a character cannot be proven to exist, then we are within our rights to compare that character to others that cannot be proven to exist."

      See, you are wrong. Take the character of Harry Potter. We can trace back the history of that fictional character to the author JK Rowling. We know where she came up with the concept, when and what her thinking was in creating the character. So...the fictional character of Harry Potter can be proven to be a fictional character and no one has any faith based connection to it.
      But people like King David, Jesus, Socrates, Diogenes or Paul have not been proven to be fictionalized by any person. It is very foolish to lump such people in with obvious fictionalized characters.

      July 9, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Your reasoning is slightly interesting, Ly, but un-compelling. I think that it depends on the situation and that in many cases and for the sake of the particular argument under review, it is perfectly applicable to compare two beings which cannot be verified to exist. Of course, in the case of some arguments, it would be wrong to compare to unprovable beings. And in some cases it is just poor form because the character we know to be "false" is much, much more likely to exist than the one to which we are comparing the false character.

      July 9, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Cpt. Obvious- "Your reasoning is slightly interesting, Ly, but un-compelling."

      It is your right to be un-compelled.

      "iAnd in some cases it is just poor form because the character we know to be "false" is much, much more likely to exist than the one to which we are comparing the false character."

      Correction, you mean "the character you think is "false"...". You do not know that such people like King David, Socrates or Jesus were man-made constructs. You merely @ssume they are.

      July 9, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
  14. Dyslexic doG

    If God is powerful enough to create the universe, don't you think he'd have a more foolproof way of getting his exact message across to future generations than this endlessly translated, edited, confused, modified, twisted, corrupted book of stories that is changed by religious power brokers to suit each generation?

    Wouldn't god's word be carved on the moon, unchangeable and for all to see? Wouldn't it be spoken unchanged by a species of animal? Wouldn't it be written microscopically on every stone or every tree? Wouldn't there be some space age material that had god's voice recorded, uncorrupted over the centuries and there for everyone to hear.

    Wouldn't there be parts of God's word that reflect computers or artificial intelligence or DNA or modern medicine or future medicine or electricity or space travel to other parts of this amazing universe he created? Wouldn't there be talk of gender and race equality? Wouldn't there be talk of Asia and Australia and the Americas and Europe and Africa?

    Instead the bible is limited to horses and carts and herbs and grain and swords and shields and misogyny and racism and slavery all set in the deserts of the middle east. The Bible is so obviously a product of bronze age man, you must be in denial to even argue that it is the word of god. There may or may not be a god or gods, but this book of bronze age voodoo and oppression has nothing to do with him, her or them.

    And stop it with this "not the word of god but words inspired by god" cop out. That just means it was written by greedy, evil men who got their way by claiming that god told them to do something. That's a self serving scam that should be scorned, especially by anyone claiming to love an omnipotent god. That scam is an abomination and an insult to your god ... as is the human imagined and human written bible!

    July 8, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Guess Reality can take a vacation now. We can get our daily helping of copy/paste from other people now.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      @Lycidas
      you're right to consider yourself a wit, unfortunately you're only half right

      July 8, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
    • Regular viewer

      That's about the fifth time I've read that half wit joke too.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
    • Transcendent

      "Don't you think he'd have a more foolproof way of getting his exact message across to future generations than this endlessly translated, edited, confused, modified, twisted, corrupted book of stories that is changed by religious power brokers to suit each generation?"

      Yes! God's spirit abides in us. No perfect book needed.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:23 pm |
  15. Romans 8:1

    Atheists are nothing but a distraction.

    Good news in bad times.

    GOSPEL

    GOD's Only Son Provides Everlasting Life.

    Accept / Deny

    Your choice. No fence sitters.

    Faith.

    July 8, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • Pete

      "GOD's Only Son Provides Everlasting Life.

      Accept / Deny"

      There are several gods that have sons so that is not the real truth or you don't know much about religion do you.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
    • Dave

      This is typical of Christians, when they are loosing an argument, they post it again and again. It still doesn't make it true.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
    • Madtown

      GOD's Only Son
      ----
      Interesting. God created this incomprehensibly vast and intricate universe, this world and all life within, yet could only have 1 son? Simple logic suggests God could have as many sons/daughters as he chose to. Why only 1?

      July 8, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      Part of your “good news” is that if you don’t believe then you burn in heII for all eternity.

      Infinite punishment for a finite crime is just the opposite of justice. I guess that your god is not all just is he?

      July 8, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      If you think it's our choice to accept or deny, you haven't read Romans 9. Why are you so afraid of what your own bible says?

      July 8, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • Romans 8:1

      Pete

      Agree, many "gods" little "g", with many sons and daughters. Slave to sin, who's father is Satan (a created being).

      I am referring to the Creator God Almighty. Alpha and Omega. Everlasting. Creator of all, always was, is and will be forever.

      Satan and his off spring and followers (volunteers and those he steals,kills and destroy) will be thrown into the pit of hell to suffer for all eternity.

      Follow them if you choose. People make bad choices everyday.

      Just didn't want you to make that bad decision to be a victim of Satan the liar.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Romans
      The liars are the ones who created the bible.
      If any gods had any part of it, why is it wrong in so many places?
      Why is gods word so easily corrupted by mere mortal men.
      And don't try telling me it is your Satan character either. God created Satan knowing full well the consequences. God is OK with anything Satan does.

      Religious people are nothing but a distraction. There is absolutly no reason to believe any of their bible, especially since we can see the stories that were modified from previous cultures to create their god story.

      And Romans likes to break the 9th commandment. He has done it several times today alone.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • Colin

      The fiction of Satan or the Devil is a favorite Judeo Christian superst.ition of mine. It actually appeared quite late in Jewish literature, probably around 300 B.C.E. Satan was created by the Jews to address why the Jews were constantly living under foreign domination, despite the promises to the contrary of the Covenant belief. He was created as a part of Jewish apocalypticism to answer the challenge.

      This school taught that, while the gentiles were doing better now, the day would come when they would get their comeuppance. The Jews were suffering because of the malevolence of Satan (a being seemingly invented solely for this purpose and appearing nowhere in earlier Jewish literature) but Yahweh would one day return and defeat Satan in an epic battle. Then the Jews would get their just rewards and the evil wrongdoers would be punished. In a sense, this view was perfect, because you never had to deliver. You could just keep putting off the issue by answering any skeptic with the “any day now” response.

      Christians later picked up on the idea and ran with it and developed it to where it is today. A quite silly, childish character who wants to "collect souls" in his tourture chamber for no apparent reason.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • ReligionIsBS

      Your god sounds like an idiot to me. Why am I capable of doing things that he cant? Ive never had to kill my children to learn how to forgive. I guess im more powerful than your god.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
    • Romans 8:1

      Madtown

      You can be adopted. Become a child of God through the acceptance of HIS only Son JESUS life, death on the cross for the remission of sin and being raised from the dead on the 3rd day and now sits on His thrown in Heaven.

      We are GOD's creation. Unfortunately we are all sinners, in need of a perfect Savior.
      We are separated from being acceptable in GOD's presence.

      With CHRIST taking our sins to the cross, paying our dept we owe and cannot pay.

      Being risen from the grave, provides the hope of everlasting life and though we will experience a death – we will be raised again when He returns. Soon and very soon.

      No magic, no fairy tell, no unicorns, no pixxy dust.

      GOD's power is unmeasurable. We cannot comprehend what He has in store for us, for those who believe.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
    • Observer

      Romans 8:1.

      No unicorns? Do you still pick and choose the parts that hypocritically trash gays? How about pretending abortion is condemned?

      What do you select? Is your church more open-minded and liberal?

      July 8, 2013 at 4:44 pm |
    • Madtown

      Romans 8:1
      Madtown
      You can be adopted. Become a child of God
      -----
      I already am. As is every human being on earth, equal in the eyes of God. Yes, even those God CHOSE to place in an area of the world, where they'd never learn the first thing about christianity, or ever know who Jesus is.

      You also never attempted to answer the question, not surprisingly. Why would an all-powerful God only be able to have 1 son? Is logic even part of your decision making process?

      July 8, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • Dan

      "GOD's power is unmeasurable. We cannot comprehend what He has in store for us, for those who believe."

      That's why you're on here trying to say you do comprehend and then proceed to spew the same lies that have been told for centuries.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
  16. Romans 8:1

    If someone offers you a parachute before take off on a 17 hour flight, would you wear it?

    If a person spoke to you about heaven and hell are real places, would you listen with an open mind and heart?

    If you had to decide to spare 2 people versus 271 people, how would you choose?

    If time was up, your last breathe, would you still say no to GOD's free gift of eternal life?

    No man is promised tomorrow. None of us.

    Think about it.

    Then. Decide how you'll react next time a person witnesses to you about their belief in JESUS.

    July 8, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
    • Biffy

      So when have you listened to the perspectives of other religions with "an open heart and mind"?

      Never.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • Carly

      1. Who's offering the parachute? Is the flight crew giving me a parachute? I'm not sure I'd board a plane if the flight crew felt I needed to wear a parachute.

      2. Absolutely

      3. I don't understand the question. If I had to choose how many people die I'd obviously choose the smaller number. If I had to choose who dies I'd pick the least happy ones. There are bound to be suicidal people among 271.

      4. Heck no!

      July 8, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • Dan the Man

      All of your post presumes the existence of God. Prove it.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • Pete

      Dude get over yourself already. Most of the atheists posting here are former ministers and xtians, proof your religion is not all it's cracked up to be because it's all a lie.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • Pete

      " Decide how you'll react next time a person witnesses to you about their belief in JESUS."

      No, that's called being brainwashed and I won't belong to a cult.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • Romans 8:1

      Only one road to heaven, many the other place.

      You have to choose. But, it will take faith either way.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      As far as accepting a gift goes, I would need to have proof that the gift exists in order to try to accept it. If I'm supposed to just believe I have received it after I chant some magic spell or other, I'm afraid that's too unlikely for me to believe. I've never received any other gifts that way, so.....

      July 8, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
    • God

      Can't you see my hand in this? I was sparing them the hell of going to church camp.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
    • Rom72

      Pete, so arrogant. God has been spoken and written about throughout the history of mankind. Do you think you know better than everyone who has come before you, all of your ancestors?

      July 8, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • Huh?

      "Only one road to heaven, many the other place."

      Oh, that's right, now the fear factor comes into play, when you can't sell a product use fear!

      By the way which heaven since there are so many of them or you don't comprehend that do you? LOL!

      July 8, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      According to Romans 9, it's god who does all the decision making. Perhaps he's made me as a vessel of wrath in order to show of one of his modes of destruction as the scripture says I might be.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • Pete

      "God has been spoken and written about throughout the history of mankind. Do you think you know better than everyone who has come before you, all of your ancestors?"

      No, that would be gods plural dude, 1000's of them doesn't mean they're real.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • derp

      "If someone offers you a parachute before take off on a 17 hour flight, would you wear it?"

      I would take it, and put it the overhead bin.

      If a person spoke to you about heaven and hell are real places, would you listen with an open mind and heart?

      If I spoke to you about unicorns, sasquatch and elves, would you listen with an open mind and heart.

      "If you had to decide to spare 2 people versus 271 people, how would you choose?"

      I'd chose none. God has to chose? Is he that weak?

      "If time was up, your last breathe, would you still say no to GOD's free gift of eternal life?"

      If your time was up would you bow before Mithra?

      "No man is promised tomorrow. None of us."

      Only reality based part of your comment.

      "Think about it"

      I have.

      "Decide how you'll react next time a person witnesses to you about their belief in JESUS."

      I'll tell them to shut up like I always do.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • Observer

      Romans 8:1

      Romans 12:20 “If your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink.”

      Christians certainly don't believe that, but it doesn't matter when all you do is pick-and-choose from the Bible.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • derp

      "God has been spoken and written about throughout the history of mankind. Do you think you know better than everyone who has come before you, all of your ancestors?"

      Yes I believe I know better than people who thought the earth was flat, the sun circled it, that snakes can talk and hand deliver magic fruit.

      Any more stupid questions?

      July 8, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • Romans 8:1

      Pvt. Obvious

      Welcome back. I missed your pithy comments.

      You probably belief everyone that tells you the check is in the mail.

      You don't have to accept GOD's gift. Faith is not of substance things seen.

      Get some faith, mustard seed size will do fine.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • Pete

      "Romans 12:20 “If your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink.”

      Christians certainly don't believe that, but it doesn't matter when all you do is pick-and-choose from the Bible."

      Yeah, you would think with all the talk about their god and how moved they are about it that they would actually get off their butts and do something about the starvation on this planet. The reality is they really aren't that moved because deep down it really hasn't changed their greedy habits.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Romans 8, what if Romans 9 is correct? Why would I need faith if god predestined me from before the foundations of the earth to be a vessel of wrath for him to show off how destructive he can be?

      July 8, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
    • Romans 8:1

      Deep thinks God doesn't exist or hates God for not granting the wish, or has more serious issues not willing to discuss online.

      Just know, the God of the Bible, loves you just as you are right now. He just doesn't like your sinful life. You have missed the mark (sin) against God. He is ready to forgive you.

      Doubt you'll understand this fact. Your reply will probably prove it.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Transcendent

      Romans 9

      Your mission, if you choose to accept it …

      ...though chosen for this mission, they had to accept it, obey His covenants, and keep the faith.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • Pete

      "Just know, the God of the Bible, loves you just as you are right now. He just doesn't like your sinful life. You have missed the mark (sin) against God. He is ready to forgive you.

      Doubt you'll understand this fact. Your reply will probably prove it."

      Your god created the sin to hold against you so that you would be fearful and believe in it. Then when that wasn't enough it created hell to further drive fear into you so you would believe. Fear is the greatest selling tool known to man. Now be fearful that you are believing in the right god now since there are thousands of them. Remember that only 30% of people on this planet believe in your god, that means the other 70% will burn in all eternity according to your bible, that is NOT a loving god, but a monster like Hitler (who was a xtian too).

      July 8, 2013 at 3:55 pm |
    • Pete

      "obey His covenants,"

      But yet they don't so many xtians are going to burn in hell for not stoning their children to death because they insulted and talked back to their parents.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • Romans 8:1

      Not to get distracted, many of those posting comments that Christians don't care about people starving, I am amazed how blind you really are.

      In every disaster, the church is first in and stays on site after the CNN cameras and A Cooper leaves. Which of you are posting from Haiti today? Who is there, our church. Not you, CNN or the rest of the atheists.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • Transcendent

      "But yet they don't so many xtians are going to burn in hell for not stoning their children to death because they insulted and talked back to their parents."

      The Parable of the Good Samaritan

      The Priest and the Levite obeyed the laws you are talking about.

      The Samaritan broke the law (touching a non-jew, touching a man near death, coming close to a man that was dying) and Jesus praised him.

      I don't think you understand what Jesus Christ said about those laws.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • Pete

      "In every disaster, the church is first in and stays on site after the CNN cameras and A Cooper leaves. Which of you are posting from Haiti today? Who is there, our church. Not you, CNN or the rest of the atheists."

      You're not there either dude, that's the point, you're a joke. I have helped in Haiti and other parts of the world, xtians don't have the monopoly on doing good deeds. The point is thousands of children die every day from starvation, if your religion really moved people the way you are trying to claim there wouldn't be anyone dying from starvation and America wouldn't be the greediest country on the planet.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Romans
      Bearing false witness...Do you really think there aren't any atheists still helping in Haiti? Or is it just you bearing false witness. You do not know it for a fact so it is in fact you lying. There are atheists there helping in case you didn't know.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • Dave

      "I don't think you understand what Jesus Christ said about those laws."

      That he was here to fulfill it, not do away with it. It's why so many Christians love to use Leviticus against the gay community.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • Transcendent

      Pete
      Jesus Christ broke those laws that you claim God wants us to follow. And people making claims like that had Him killed. They found Him guilty of breaking God's laws, yet in the end, we see He was innocent. And the men were guilty.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
    • Pete

      "Bearing false witness...Do you really think there aren't any atheists still helping in Haiti? Or is it just you bearing false witness. You do not know it for a fact so it is in fact you lying. There are atheists there helping in case you didn't know."

      It's just more proof their god and the bible really don't have such a profound impact on people as they are claiming. It couldn't stop this poster from lying for their god.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
    • Madtown

      Romans 8:1
      Only one road to heaven, many the other place. You have to choose.
      ----
      BS. This is what orgainzed religion wants you to believe. You "have to choose". You can't choose from options you don't know exist, and there are many throughout the world who aren't aware of a given religion, say christianity.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • Pete

      "Jesus Christ broke those laws that you claim God wants us to follow. And people making claims like that had Him killed. They found Him guilty of breaking God's laws, yet in the end, we see He was innocent. And the men were guilty."

      You have no clue about the bible do you? Then xtians don't need to follow the 10 commandments either based on what you're trying to say. LOL!

      July 8, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • Transcendent

      Pete
      "You are trying to earn favor with God by observing certain days or months or seasons or years. I fear for you. Perhaps all my hard work with you was for nothing. Dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to live as I do in freedom from these things, for I have become like you Gentiles—free from those laws."
      Galatians 4:10-12

      "So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality."
      Colossians 2:16-17

      July 8, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
    • Observer

      Romans 8:1

      "I am amazed how blind you really are. In every disaster, the church is first in and stays on site after the CNN cameras and A Cooper leaves"

      Speaking of being blind, the Bible quote is about enemies.

      Don't worry about it. Christians don't believe it and pick-and-choose other verses to use to trash people.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
    • Transcendent

      "BS. This is what orgainzed religion wants you to believe. You "have to choose". You can't choose from options you don't know exist, and there are many throughout the world who aren't aware of a given religion, say christianity."

      Wrong. Lots of organized religions teach multiple paths.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • Pete

      "Colossians 2:16-17"

      Thanks for demonstrating you don't know the bible very well. That' is the problem with xtians when they take the snippets of text out of context while ignoring the rest of the bible. Paul was referring to the expansion of the church into pagan sections of the world and was NOT talking about the OT in this verse. If you use that as your argument then you are ignoring Romans 7:12 if you want to cherry pick the bible. LMAO!

      It's always too funny to see xtians not knowing their bible when trying to win an argument... oh wait, that's pride dude...quick repent!

      July 8, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
    • Observer

      Transcendent

      Thanks for all the Bible quotes and your opinons about the Bible.

      "Ok, like Christians, you like to tell people what to do and are hypocritical."
      – Transcendent

      July 8, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • Transcendent

      Pete, you are arguing legalism.

      Paul spoke out against this:

      Acts 15:10

      “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?"

      July 8, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
    • Transcendent

      Observer,
      You are welcome! I'm sure if you disliked seeing Bible verses you would not read a story about Christianity on the CNN Belief Blog. And you certainly wouldn't spend all day long posting on the message board that exists to foster a discussion about the role of faith and belief in our lives.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • Hear This

      Romans:
      "Which of you are posting from Haiti today? Who is there, our church. Not you, CNN or the rest of the atheists."

      Just because secular/atheist/agnostic charities and helpers don't trumpet their aid with the large letter "A" like your religious ones, doesn't mean that they are not there in huge numbers and with huge $$ helping all the time. Bill Gates foundation with Warren Buffet (both agnostic/atheist) are one of the largest charitable givers in the world. Do we have to post the list of secular humanitarian organizations again. You have been informed of this many times...

      Thank you for your help, but you are not the only ones participating.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
    • Madtown

      Wrong. Lots of organized religions teach multiple paths.
      -----
      Ok, maybe. Irrelevant, if you've never heard of the path that is the supposed "right" path. Many, many people have never heard of christianity. Based on this very simple, inarguable, point......christianity cannot be the "only correct" religion, as so many like to say.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
    • ReligionIsBS

      Why do you expect people to listen and beleive your story, yet you wont do the same for islam, judiasm, scientology, etc?

      July 8, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
    • Pete

      "Acts 15:10

      “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?""

      The more you post the more you keep showing you don't know the bible very well. That scripture is about circumcisions, not doing away with the OT. LMAO!

      July 8, 2013 at 4:42 pm |
    • Transcendent

      Death is not the final outcome. Jesus conquered death and hell. He can save all those who did not know about His path. Unless they don't want to be saved. And then they are free to perish.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
    • Transcendent

      Pete,
      Circ*mcision was an OT law.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      I will reply the same way I do to all Babble Humpers, regardless of age or gender: "Fuck Off!"

      July 8, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • Pete

      "Pete,
      Circ*mcision was an OT law."

      The point is that it doesn't do away with all of the OT and you really don't know the bible that well.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:53 pm |
    • Atheists galore

      Hell Hot Air Ace, you can do better than that. You make atheists look childish and angry

      July 8, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
    • Observer

      HotAirAce,

      Grow up.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
    • Transcendent

      "The point is that it doesn't do away with all of the OT and you really don't know the bible that well."

      I didn't say it does away with all of the OT. But it was the OLD Testament, and after Jesus there is a New Testament. So you can claim we are going to burn in hell for not stoning their children to death because they insulted and talked back to their parents. But Paul seems to disagree with you.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:18 pm |
    • Observer

      Transcendent,

      Sorry to have to tell you this, but it was the SAME "unchanging" God in both testaments.

      Malachi 3:6 “I the Lord do not change.”

      July 8, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
    • Transcendent

      Malachi 3

      “Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming,” says the LORD of hosts. "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire and like fullers’ soap. “He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness. “Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the LORD as in the days of old and as in former years.

      “Then I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely, and against those who oppress the wage earner in his wages, the widow and the orphan, and those who turn aside the alien and do not fear Me,” says the LORD of hosts. “For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

      “From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My statutes and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you,” says the LORD of hosts.

      -–
      This explains Jesus is God. How Jesus was on Earth, is how God is in Heaven. A Christian can know God through Jesus, and not the law.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
    • Transcendent

      Malachi shows that even though most people weren't obeying God's commandments, he was still going to send a saviour.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:36 pm |
    • Observer

      Transcendent,

      Yep. Same God who commanded all the killing of each other.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:37 pm |
    • Transcendent

      Matthew 19

      And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?”

      And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

      Then he said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”

      The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?”

      Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

      But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.
      -
      PS
      I like how you criticize me for using Bible verses, and then you use Bible verses. There is that hypocrisy you told me about!

      July 8, 2013 at 5:42 pm |
    • Observer

      Transcendent,

      lol. You were the one who complained about people being "preachy".

      Ooops. I have no problem with you picking-and-choosing from the Bible.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
    • Transcendent

      I complained about you being preachy. You said you were fine with me, but told me to not oppose g*ys or abortion. You started telling me what to do.

      In this thread we were commenting on Bible verses. I said the self-proclaimed Bible expert was wrong about killing children. I don't think I was telling people how to live their lives.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:01 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      "No man is promised tomorrow."

      Exactly and that is why I strive every day to do something beneficial in this world. I'm not overly concerned about my final days and I'll try not to focus on them until the need arises. In the end, none of us can say for sure, so until that point comes where one can say yes or no, I'm going to live for today and I do that without the need of a belief in a god. I don't care what my dying ramblings may be, my best friend who is ordained knows that I'm an Atheist, she'd know that any mention of god on my death bed is just the brain playing games.

      July 8, 2013 at 7:17 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Given that I have shed childish beliefs and am closing in on 60 years old, I believe I am grown up. I do not believe I am angry – merely direct. My response succinctly expresses my at!tude towards and hopes for religion. You folks are free to reply as you wish – I am free to, and will continue to, reply as I choose, to those who insist on shoving their delusions in my face.

      July 8, 2013 at 7:34 pm |
    • Observer

      Transcendent

      "I complained about you being preachy. You said you were fine with me, but told me to not oppose g*ys or abortion. You started telling me what to do."

      Yep. I told you it wasn't good to be a hypocrite and you disagreed with me.

      July 8, 2013 at 7:53 pm |
  17. Christian Logic 101

    If the Christian lives: "It's a miracle! The hand of God is obvious in this! Give God credit!"

    If the Christian dies: "God works in mysterious ways. This world ultimately means nothing to God. Satan did it. Don't blame God."

    July 8, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • Devin Arena

      People ascribe too much influence to God when good things happen to them. Maybe He was helping them, but it's more likely to just be luck. I was praying for the Supreme Court to overturn DOMA, and sure enough it did, but others may have been praying for the opposite. Did God answer one of us and spurn the other?

      July 8, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Transcendent

      Thy will, not mine, be done.

      God doesn't need us telling Him what to do, He knows what is best.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • Observer

      Transcendent

      "Thy will, not mine, be done. God doesn't need us telling Him what to do, He knows what is best."

      Yep. That explains the long list of commands from him to kill each other.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
    • Transcendent

      The Parable of the Good Samaritan

      On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

      “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

      He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

      “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

      But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

      In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

      “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

      The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

      Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

      July 8, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Jack

      And when it is the gay man beaten and bloody on the side of the road, it is the Christian who calls it divine justice for him having committed some "sin".

      Spare me. Start showing the compassion of Christ by ceasing to demonize people who dare to love differently.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:42 pm |
    • Pete

      "Spare me. Start showing the compassion of Christ by ceasing to demonize people who dare to love differently."

      As you can see from Transcendent post they cherry pick the bible to much to comprehend that.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      A little dramatic there aren't you Jack? While I'm sure you could find H0mophobes in religious as well as no-religious circles who think gays deserve punishment, I think it's a bit of a stretch to label it a character trait of all Christians. You would however, find a number who might explain to you that same seex gratification isn't really love, as much as you'd like to think otherwise

      July 8, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • Transcendent

      Jack,
      This may come to a shock to you – there are g*y, lesbian and transgendered Christians. In that parable, they may be called to help out a h*mophobe lying on the side of the road.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:08 pm |
    • Observer

      Bill Deacon,

      Speaking of love, do you believe the Bible when it says that love isn't needed for a marriage since marriage can be forced onto people?

      July 8, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I'm not sure which Scripture you're distorting this time but let me ask you. Do you know of any marriages where love is absent?

      July 8, 2013 at 5:40 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      I have attended an arranged marriage. Being in love had nothing to do with the bride getting married.

      July 8, 2013 at 5:44 pm |
    • Observer

      Bill Deacon,

      I didn't "distort" anything. God said marriage should be forced onto r-pe victims, female slaves, men whose brothers died leaving a widow, women taken as prizes of war, etc.

      Why try to support a Bible if you haven't read one?

      July 8, 2013 at 8:19 pm |
    • fred

      Observer
      Have you noticed that you are constantly reminded that you know verses in the Bible but you do not know God or the Bible? Look over your posts and notice how they do not reflect God rather your own godlessness.

      July 8, 2013 at 8:23 pm |
    • Observer

      fred,

      Have you noticed that I accurately quote from the Bible and you can offer no rebuttal but to pretend the Bible doesn't say what it does?

      July 8, 2013 at 8:26 pm |
    • fred

      Observer
      No, I have made it clear in the past how each verse regarding slavery applies any why marriage was better for youths caught up in adultery than getting stoned. You turn what was meant for good into something to smear and mock God.

      July 8, 2013 at 8:38 pm |
    • WASP

      @BILL: "Do you know of any marriages where love is absent?"

      yup, my ex-wife and mine's marriage. XD

      nah, but seriously starting from one:
      1) arranged marriages
      2) marriages for rank or prestige
      3) due to unplanned pregnancy; hint southern term "shotgun wedding"
      4) immigration
      5) medical benefits
      6) simply money; young woman marries old male............that should be a DUH.

      all throughout history and especially in early christian/jewish/catholic history these types of marriages were common placed, and even today these types of marriages still happen.
      so stop viewing the world from only one side of the planet, i've seen the world and met it's people.

      July 8, 2013 at 8:41 pm |
    • Observer

      fred,

      Nonsense.

      According to the Bible a slave owner could take a rod and break the arms and legs of a female slave without any penalty if she didn't die in a day or two.

      Justify that crap.

      Get into the real world and out of your world of fantasy and dreams.

      July 8, 2013 at 8:43 pm |
    • WASP

      @fred: "No, I have made it clear in the past how each verse regarding slavery applies any why marriage was better for youths caught up in adultery than getting stoned. "

      so you are not oppsed to marrying off your child to an unloving marriage because they slept with someone as oppsed to stoning them?
      how very christian of you. lmfao
      so remember when you child shows up pregnant or with a pregnant woman, well shotgun wedding it is then. lmfao

      July 8, 2013 at 8:45 pm |
    • fred

      WASP
      You are reading one verse that was provided without benefit of the case law or even the brief. That would be like picking one sentence out the recent Supreme Court ruling and applying it any way you see fit without understanding anything about it.

      July 8, 2013 at 8:50 pm |
  18. *

    I was pleasantly surprised by the level of compassion thus far shown on here. Though certain people like doggy did exactly what I thought they would do and take advantage of a tragedy to promote their bias against Christianity.

    July 8, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • The Agile Rabbit

      Well thank you for condescending to judge us. Your compassion just oozes from every word.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • *

      Well, I am a d-bag. That goes without saying.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • *

      Like most atheists and free thinkers, I have no problem with speaking my mind. Perhaps you should thicken up that skin of yours a little.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      @*
      if I wanted sh1t from you, I would have squeezed your head!

      July 8, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • Canis Major

      Guess you don't believe in free speech eh? How evolved of you.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Did the christian god prevent the accident? Did it save all passengers and crew from death? Did it save all passengers and crew from injury? Times like this show that life is just uncertain and random tragedy can strike and god is clearly not the omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent being as advertised.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:30 pm |
    • Lycidas

      "Times like this show that life is just uncertain and random tragedy can strike and god is clearly not the omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent being as advertised."

      Curious, do you think that God has no ability but to act in whatever "omni" way you think he should? It seems that you fell that he would not be able to do anything outside what you think all the omnis would be.

      July 8, 2013 at 8:07 pm |
  19. Phil in Texas

    Observer...
    Intelligence and logic? That doesn't answer the question..what if the other guy is just as intelligent and doesn't seem to hold the same value of life as you? You don't need a Bible to tell you that randomness And chance aren't an answer for morality and value. Those come from within.
    I like the discussion...but lunchtimes over......thanks for the responses

    July 8, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • Harry Hippobottomus

      Learn to use the reply button, you dumbshit!

      July 8, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • Scarecrow

      You do realize that you keep asserting strawman misrepresentations of what seculars actually believe, don't you? That is very dishonest, Mr. Morality.

      July 8, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Phil
      Moral relativism is a truism.
      A perfect exemplar is cannibalism.
      Our culture has a very strong cannibalism taboo, but it cannot be "human nature" to feel repulsed by it as virtually every branch of the human species has praticed it at some point in their development.
      The Aztecs believed in transubstantiation. They consumed their human sacrifices in the belief that the dead literally became a part of the God to whom they were given.
      Binerwurs in India ate the sick amongst them to please Kali.
      The Karankawa, an indigenous Texan tribe, ritualistically consumed their enemies to gain their strength.
      The Wari, The Kuru, Fore, Caribs, Fijians, Popayans, Serengipeans, are all fairly modern examples (within the last 500 years).

      July 8, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
  20. Let me get this straight

    So if a plane was loaded with pedophile priests and the plane crashed killing all aboard, would those pedophile priests go to heaven because they believed in John 3:16?

    July 8, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • Phil in Texas

      Ok one more response....if a plane loaded with atheists crashed and all killed ...where would they go?
      If Any believer ( all sinners..no matter how good they tried to be) dies, he is saved.

      Which one makes more sense? The dirt nap....or maybe just maybe...you may have been wrong...

      July 8, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • Huh?

      "If Any believer ( all sinners..no matter how good they tried to be) dies, he is saved. "

      Nope, you're wrong. Obviously you don't know the bible very well.

      July 8, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
    • Lionly Lamb

      get this straight,

      Who among us truly knows the will of God? You? Or me? Maybe our neighbors? To me God is not to be questioned and we all should get on with our Life here upon the Rock!

      I saw the horrific travesty unfold on TV and felt grief for I wasn't yet briefed as to the potential fatalities. It's truly a heartache and my thoughts can never bring upon the families of these two children that perished. 😦 😦 😦

      July 8, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • derp

      "If Any believer ( all sinners..no matter how good they tried to be) dies, he is saved"

      Christianity, the biggest excuse for immoral behavior ever concocted by human kind.

      July 8, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • ReligionIsBS

      Phil in Texas, lets try this approach, since you dont seem to understand how stupid you sound.

      if a plane loaded with believers in the great monkey-cow crashed and all killed ...where would they go?
      If Any believer in the great monkey-cow dies, he is saved.

      Which one makes more sense? The dirt nap....or maybe just maybe...you may have been wrong...

      Wanting something doesnt make it happen. Yuo can want heaven (or the place the greaat monkey-cow sends you ) all you want, it still doesnt exist.

      July 8, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Phil: That is the poorest attempt at Pascals Wager ever. The whole believe in just case crap falls flat. No-one knows what happens in the end, believers only think they do, due to having the giant book of multiple choice that is apparently the word of their imaginary friend.

      July 8, 2013 at 6:15 pm |
    • Just the Facts Ma'am...

      "If Any believer ( all sinners..no matter how good they tried to be) dies, he is saved."

      What kind of back-up drive do they use? APC? Always Protect Christians?

      Seriously though, you do know how silly you sound right?

      July 8, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • lol??

      Llamb sayz,
      "...................these two children that perished."
      Chances are they were Christian, don'tcha think?? If they were, they did NOT PERISH.

      July 12, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.