home
RSS
Satanists square off on abortion (Yes, really)
The UK Church of Satan says it supports a variety of views on abortion. But is the church real?
July 9th, 2013
03:27 PM ET

Satanists square off on abortion (Yes, really)

By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN)- Are Satanists for or against abortion? Apparently, there's a hot debate.

A group calling itself the "UK Church of Satan" on Twitter says it's open minded, tweeting out "Why Wouldn't Satanism be pro-life?" on July 5.

But the High Priest of the New York-based Church of Satan says it's squarely in the abortion-rights corner.

How to settle this diabolical duel?

Let's back up first.

As Texas legislators debated a law last week that would restrict abortions in the Lone Star State, a group of abortion rights protesters tried to drown out a group of anti-abortion protesters at the state capitol by chanting "Hail Satan!"

The phrase trended on Twitter. Megapastor Rick Warren rapped our wrists (and The Associated Press's, too) for not covering the "Hail Satan" serenade. Actually, pastor, our man Josh Rubin was on the ball.

The UK Church of Satan (assuming it's real) jumped on the trend, tweeting on July 3:

Which raises the question: What does Satanism represent?

We asked the New York-based Church of Satan, and we got an earful.

First of all, Magus Peter H. Gilmore, High Priest of the Church of Satan, told us, there is no "UK Church of Satan."

"I have not authorized any of our UK members to create such a thing claiming to represent our organization, its members and our philosophy," Gilmore said. "So, whoever is behind that feed is committing a fraud."

Gilmore's group, which, unlike the UK church, has a website, also keeps a P.O. Box in New York City. (Radio City Station of all places. Watch out, Rockettes.)

As a matter of policy, the Church of Satan doesn't give out exact membership numbers, the magus said, but it's in the thousands.

"Our organization, founded by Anton LaVey in 1966, is worldwide," Gilmore told CNN in an e-mail, "and we have many members throughout the UK and none of them have heard of any self-proclaimed 'Church of Satan in England.' There was a hoax using a title like this a year or so ago as a political prank."

We put the question to the UK Church of Satan,  who said, "There is no 'UK' Church of Satan. It's worldwide. We represent and connect those followers 'in' the UK."

We've followed up with more questions but haven't heard back yet.

To be sure, the UK Satanists' tweets have been surprisingly unsulfurous.

Take this one, for example:

Or this sweet-natured nugget:

This is a church that worships the Prince of Darkness? And who in hell is JMG?

Getting back to abortion, here's what the supposed UK Church of Satan said:

Yeah, kinda, Gilmore told CNN. But there's much more to it than that.

Many Satanists practice "rational birth control," saith Satanism's high priest, leaving matters of personal morality up to individuals.

"We generally consider the use of abortion to be the purview of the woman whose body is carrying the child," Gilmore said. "We consider sexual experiences to be an indulgence between consenting adults that should be taken seriously, particularly when the possibility of pregnancy is concerned."

But the magus didn't appreciate hearing the name of his lord taken in vain.

"Shouting `Hail Satan!' to abortion protesters is both ludicrous and meaningless," said Gilmore, who's led the Church of Satan since 2001. "Only attention-seeking fools would do so."

Unsurprisingly, Satanists take a strong stand on separation of church and state, believing the government "should be entirely secular."

"So religion should neither force upon nor deny an abortion for any woman, in our thinking," Gilmore said. "Freedom with responsibility is the hallmark of civilized behavior to the Satanist."

Now that that's settled, what's the Satanic stance on gay marriage?

***

In a follow-up email, Gilmore made it clear that Satanists don't actually deify Satan. In fact, they're atheist, he said, and use Satan as a "symbol of pride, liberty and individualism."

"If you chose to mock us, then you should have done so based on what our philosophy actually is, rather than on an assumed `horror film' stereotype," the magus said.

Fair criticism. We'll try to improve our coverage of Satanism.

Oh, one more thing. Gilmore said the Church of Satan does approve of same-sex marriage.

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Abortion • Church and state • Culture wars • Satanism

soundoff (2,331 Responses)
  1. Jeff

    No one has proved that gods exist. Why would you assume gods exist AND that your particular god exists in the way you imagine him?

    That is like assuming unicorns exist AND that there is unicorn with zebra stripes that answers to the name Bob.

    Both gods and unicorns are ideas that men have invented. They are fine ideas, but it is ridiculous to assume they are factual without actual facts supporting their existence.

    July 10, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • Troof

      If God does not exist, there's no reason to be interested in God at all. There would be no reason for a faith and belief blog. And atheists would not have anything to complain about all day long.
      Luckily, atheists are very interested in God and keep coming back.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Jeff

      Unicorns don't exists, but people love them and talk about them all the time.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Troof,

      Atheists do not believe that a god or gods exist. Believers, however, *do* exist, and they can and have adversely affected the lives of many. We do not come here to talk to "God". We come to talk with you.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:55 pm |
    • Troof

      Do we have any great historical figures giving credit to unicorns? Like Martin Luther King Jr, who clearly believed in God and gave credit to God.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • Troof

      Can you show me a blog dedicated to unicorns that has a significant number of posters?

      July 10, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • Troof

      Can you show me any organizations or groups of people that provide aid to people in the name of unicorns?

      July 10, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Troof,

      Unicornism has a very small contingent of followers (lol). If Unicornism was real popular in this country and they were trying to control things – government, laws, public policy, education, science, etc. according to their fantasies and superst'itions, I'll just bet you would be making a vocal visit to their forums...

      July 10, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • Jeff

      Troof, who cares what people believed in the past? Who cares what people believe now? 30% believe in UFO's. Does that make UFO's real?

      FYI, there are TONS of unicorn blogs.

      People have great imaginations and they invent lots of things that are not true. Gods are one of those things. There has never been any evidence that gods exist. Do you have any evidence showing otherwise? Why believe in Jesus vs Buddha vs Mohammed vs L Ron Hubbard? All the evidence is equal for all of them in that there is no evidence that they were correct.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • jazzguitarman

      Troof; This blog is called Belief; The topics are about various belief systems, which includes no belief in a god or being agnostic. While I'm agnostic I'm interested in what the faith community has to say.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • Answer

      Religious freaks always want their god to exist. Verbally they'll will declare that it exists so they can pander to their own kind. It helps them deal with their fear of dying.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      Troof
      If God does not exist, there's no reason to be interested in God at all. There would be no reason for a faith and belief blog.'

      Thats very poor logic. Thats like saying because there are blogs out there that talk about a hollow earth, or martians or whatever then they must also be true.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
    • Troof

      Can you show me an example of what these people who believe in unicorns say?

      Here is what Martin Luther King, JR said:

      "I heard the voice of Jesus saying still to fight on. He promised never to leave me, never to leave me alone. No never alone. No never alone. He promised never to leave me, never to leave me alone."

      July 10, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
    • Troof

      Please show me one of these unicorn websites.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
    • Troof

      Jeff

      Do you have any evidence that proves there is no God?

      Sure, people have active imaginations and create stories. But that doesn't logically mean that God is strictly imaginary.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • Jeff

      Troof,

      Just google "goatse cx" and you'll find it. You can't post links here.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • Jeff

      Troof,

      Where is your evidence that every other god besides yours is fake?

      July 10, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
    • Troof

      Martin Luther King Jr testifies (EVIDENCE) that God is real and gave him strength to face certain death.
      He did more than anti-unicorn believers posting on unicorn blogs. He actually did something.
      What have you skeptics done?
      I believe this man and I admire his faith in God.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Troof, if you don't get the point by now, I don't think any website is going to help you understand the logic behind the metaphor. As long as you want your invisible sky wizard to be your special spirit daddy and make everything baddy-bad go bye-bye, you'll find an excuse. Enjoy creating them; it's your call.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • Answer

      Troof...you're that AE twit aren't you?

      July 10, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Troof,
      "Here is what Martin Luther King, JR said:
      I heard the voice of Jesus saying still to fight on..."

      So what? Child killer, Andrea Yates, the Son of Sam, and scads of other wackos claimed to hear the "voice of God/Jesus" too.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • Troof

      Jeff

      You are the one who made the claim that God does not exist. Please explain how this is a fact, and not just your opinion.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • Colin

      Troof, Jesus had a violent streak. Let’s see, what did Jesus say about people who would not bow down to him? “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.” (Luke 19:27).

      But, he was probably just having a bad day, right? Didn’t he come to spread peace? Let’s ask him.

      “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.” (Matthew 10: 34-35).

      Probably just another bad day. I’m sure he wouldn’t want to hurt anybody who did nothing more than not want their children to subscribe to Jesus’ religious view."If anyone causes one of these little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea” (Mark 9:42).

      What a violent man JEsus was, hey?

      July 10, 2013 at 4:20 pm |
    • Troof

      – Cpt. Obvious
      So, just because people made up imaginary creatures like unicorns, is proof that people made up an imaginary creature and named it god?

      July 10, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • Answer

      "You are the one who made the claim that God does not exist."

      –It odes not matter who said that "something" does not exist. When someone makes a positive claim that something does exists THEN and ONLY THEN do we require the burden that the person making the claim provide proof.

      The whole world's population can say that unicorns, gremlins, etc DO NOT exist. It is AN OKAY CLAIM.

      So go blow off.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I think it's funny that the etymology of the name "Jeff" is "God's peace".

      July 10, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
    • Colin

      Troof, I am sure you would agree that MLK was against slavery, right? Well, what did the Bible think of slavery? Let's see (by the way, please don't take my word for it. Read it yourself. It is all there in black and white).

      However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

      The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.

      If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

      Nice family values there!

      Here is its view on the almost incomprehensible evil of selling one’s own daughter as a $ex slave.

      When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

      As to beating slaves…

      When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

      Jesus and Saint Paul, the two towering figures of the New Testament were also open supporters of slavery and beating slaves.

      Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

      Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

      Now, I accept that Timothy was one of the 3-6 of the 13 letters of Saint Paul in the Bible that were forgeries by early Christians, but it still reflects the views of the early Christians on slavery and it is still included in the Bible.

      Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.

      The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it..But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

      So, whatever else one might think of the Bible, one must accept that it condoned slavery, set rules for its practice, supported the $ex trade and allowed the barbaric act of beating slaves who “misbehaved.” If one used it as a moral compass, Martin Luther King would have been beaten and his daughters sold as $ex slaves.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • Troof

      COLIN

      Luke 19 is a parable. The people that oppose God's will perish.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
    • Troof

      Colin, are these packaged answers from some kind of atheist class or something?

      July 10, 2013 at 4:26 pm |
    • Colin

      Troof, no, they are direct quotes from the Bible. Don't believe me, then look them up.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
    • Answer

      "Luke 19 is a parable"

      ===And=== "I know so" because 'I, myself' say it is a parable."

      Meanwhile everyone can claim some other verse as a parable. We all win.

      Religious freaks make no sense.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
    • Troof

      Please show where Jesus says this

      "what did Jesus say about people who would not bow down to him? "

      He was using a parable,I don't think he said what you are implying. Can you explain what the parable he was using that you mis-quoted him from was explaining.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • Colin

      Troof, so what. He used a direct reference to the beating of slaves without any hint of disagreement with the practice. Can you imagine MLK or Ghandi doing such a thing?

      July 10, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • Colin

      Troof, that is me setting up the quote. Look, if I am misquoting, call me out. It is not something one can lie about. It is there in black and white. Jesus was, at times, violent and reflected the times in which he lived. Just like his language and religion (Jewish apolalyptacism, by the way) did.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • Troof

      Parable are metaphoric speech:
      – part riddle
      – part joke
      – part fable
      – totally unsolvable

      It is normal to try an simplify a parable into something, like saying Jesus is a violent jerk.

      But it is only your opinion. And says a lot more about you than it does Jesus Christ.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • Colin

      The frustrating thing is how few Christians know anything about the Bible, how it was written, compiled, edited, forged and translated over the centuries. They cherry pick a few primary color simple stories from Sunday school from all 74 books (or 66 if one is Protestant) and shoot their mouths off. Meanwhile they ignore its historical context, the barbarity it displays and the obvious mythology and contradictions that litter it.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
    • Answer

      "But it is only your opinion."

      ===Meanwhile you on the other have "authority" to say it is from authority. Funny.

      Yours is opinion also, freak.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:38 pm |
    • Colin

      Troof, I never said he was a violent jerk, I said he was, at times, violent – which he was. He also displyed incredible mercy, compassion and a philosophy well ahead of his times. This is where 99% of Christians like you miss the boat. You try to elevate him to some kind theological super-hero, complete with magic powers, like rising from the dead, rather than accepting and exploring the complxities of this fascinating historical figure.

      Your theology exhibited here today is that of a ten year old.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
    • Troof

      “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.” (Matthew 10: 34-35).

      If you believe in the truth and choose to not follow the path of wickedness, it may tear your family apart. They may love wickedness more than truth.

      He is not literally saying he came to tear families apart, which is clear if you read this in context.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:42 pm |
    • Colin

      The extent to which you just tried to twist that quote to fit your pre-ordained, infantile view of Jesus is remarkable (but not unexpected).

      If a Bible verse furthers the cause, it is to be taken literally. If a Bible verse is detrimental to the cause, it is either; (i) taken out of context; (ii) symbolic, allegorical or otherwise means something other than it says; (iii) referring to another verse somewhere else that rectifies the error; (iv) a translation or copyist's error; (v) a mystery of God not discernible by we mere humans; or (vi) just plain magic.

      With a panoply of excuses like that available to the simple minded believer, there is little doubt they maintain their faith. There is no biblical inconsistency too obvious, no biblical error too clear and no biblical absurdity too manifest to be explained away by one of the above excuses.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      No, Troof, that's not what I meant at all. As I said, if you haven't realized the point of the example by now, you probably wouldn't accept it if you did realize the point. Any excuse will do, as long as you can find way to keep believing, right?

      July 10, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Colin, Colin, as a teacher, albeit a public school teacher of an unconstiitutional class, you should know better than to fall into the "Jesus was a pretty good guy" fallacy. As Lewis points out, pretty good guys don't go around claiming to be the son of God, unless of course they are. You have admitted that Jesus was exemplary in some regards but you cannot logically tread the middle ground. He either is what he says he is or he is a lunatic. But, he is anything but a "pretty good guy" who's ahead of his time.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
    • Troof

      The Bible is honest. It shows people how they are... warts and all.
      It is describing the people. Slavery existed back then.
      Slavery exists today.

      The fact that you are posting on a computer in the middle of the day implies you are privileged and your lifestyle contributes to slavery. It is just hidden, you don't have to see it.

      I didn't go to Sunday school so it might be wise to drop all assumptions you have about most Christians in regards to me.

      The same Bible that was used to oppress African slaves was used to set them free.

      "Climbin’ up d’ mountain, children
      Didn’t come here to stay
      And if I nevermore see you again
      Gonna meet you at de judgment day

      Hebrew in de fiery furnace
      And dey begin to pray
      And de good Lawd smote dat fire out
      Oh, wasn’t dat a mighty day !
      Good Lord, wasn’t dat a mighty day !

      Daniel went in de lions den
      And he begin to pray
      And de angels of de Lawd locked de lion’s jaw
      Oh, wasn’t dat a mighty day !
      Good Lord, wasn’t dat a mighty day !"

      July 10, 2013 at 4:52 pm |
    • Troof

      God used parables because He wants our hearts.

      Our minds are not that impressive to God. All the intelligence in your brain is like one grain of sand on the bottom of the Pacific Ocean compared to God's knowledge.
      Your opinions and knowledge dies when you die. It was all for nothing. Unless God is right about what he says about love. Love endures. There is more to life than meets the eye. Thank God I'm not a robot!

      July 10, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
    • Answer

      "The Bible is honest."

      ==Look at the freaks refer to their babble as authority. LOL

      July 10, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
    • Troof

      Cpt. Obvious
      Any excuse will do, as long as you can find way to keep believing, right?

      No. Just because some hypocritical atheist posts a negative viewpoint about a book, doesn't make me lose my faith in God.

      Demonstrate by your loving and kind actions that you can be a decent human being. Don't just inist and tell me what I do.

      Just worry about yourself, dude.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:59 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Regarding belief in the Bible and the uses of that belief (to slave owners and abolitionists, for example). An idea does not need to be true to have some utility. Beliefs can be effective handles by which to manipulate people.

      July 10, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
    • Troof

      Colin is incredibly arrogant.

      I know Christians get a bad rep for being that way. But wow! Colin fits the description.

      I always say: Fundie Christians and internet atheists have A LOT in common.

      Colin just proved my point. Great evidence!

      July 10, 2013 at 5:04 pm |
    • Colin

      Bill, you said, "Colin, Colin, as a teacher, albeit a public school teacher of an unconstiitutional class." I do not teach at a public school. My class was not even in America and it was at a private university.

      Perhaps next time, you will get your facts straight.

      Second, no, I do not accept an "all or nothing approach" to any historical figure.

      July 10, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Not to worry Colin usually disappears if you begin to question him about his employment.

      July 10, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Well I'm sure there is no way you ant to prove that here on the blog but I'm equally certain that the next time you walk into a U.S. public classroom you'll have that thought in the back of your mind "I'm breaking the law"

      July 10, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
    • Troof

      He teaches an imaginary class in an imaginary country.

      And gives out imaginary degrees.

      July 10, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
    • Colin

      Troof, you said:

      "The Bible is honest. It shows people how they are... warts and all.
      It is describing the people. Slavery existed back then. Slavery exists today."

      Yes, but would not a book from an all loving God NOT show open support for it the way the Bible does. Would we not expect something a little less parochial and regional from your cosmic super-minded god? The fact that hte bible supports slavery throughout it and contians not one condemntaion of it is cogent evidence of its purely human origins.

      You said "The fact that you are posting on a computer in the middle of the day implies you are privileged and your lifestyle contributes to slavery. It is just hidden, you don't have to see it."

      Look at you watch, then look at what you are doing. Dear god, man, at least be a challange to argue with. You are too easy.

      I didn't go to Sunday school so it might be wise to drop all assumptions you have about most Christians in regards to me.

      I never siad you did, I was using Sunday school as a parable – you know like Jesus did – lol.

      You said "The same Bible that was used to oppress African slaves was used to set them free."

      Exactly, by men.....

      July 10, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • Troof

      (Mark 9:42)

      "If anyone causes one of these little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea”

      If you are going to be wicked and evil, you might as well drown yourself. What we do in this world matters. There is a God. It doesn't just end when you die. Don't be a fool.

      What is so wrong about that?

      July 10, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • Colin

      Bill, you said "Not to worry Colin usually disappears if you begin to question him about his employment."

      We are getting way off topic here, but I don't recall ever being asked. But, in point of fact, I am a retired teacher.

      July 10, 2013 at 5:15 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      The books will not be balanced, ever. Reality is not fair. There is nothing eternal, particularly you. These are the things you can count on, Troof. Why did you ever imagine otherwise?

      July 10, 2013 at 5:18 pm |
    • Troof

      Colin: –Look at you watch, then look at what you are doing. Dear god, man, at least be a challange to argue with. You are too easy.–

      I'm being hypocritical, just like YOU. YOU are just like the people in the Bible. YOU pass judgment on the Bible for having slaves, but YOU support slavery!

      http://slaveryfootprint.org/survey/#where_do_you_live

      You just don't have to see it because our good come shipped from overseas slaves.

      I've seen you get angry and lose control. I've seen you act superior toward others and use your intelligence to hurt people.

      Why do you act like you are better than everyone? Why so smug?

      July 10, 2013 at 5:20 pm |
    • Troof

      Where did Jeff disappear to with his evidence that there is no God?

      July 10, 2013 at 5:23 pm |
    • Colin

      Got to go. Enjoyed chatting. As an arrogant, mean atheist, I have a part-time job drowning kittens at a local animal shelter. Later Bill, Troof.....

      July 10, 2013 at 5:23 pm |
    • Troof

      Bye Colin. Bye kittens.

      July 10, 2013 at 5:25 pm |
    • Colin

      Ok, this time I REALLY have to og, but, Troof, saying "you can't prove God does or does not exist" is to create a false equivalence between the two positions. Think it through.

      There is no evidence God exists. Correct.

      There is also "no evidence God does not exist." In a sense, true, but what "evidence" could there be? Think about it. What possible evidence of non-existence can there be? By definition, there is no evidence of a negative. What evidence is there that Santa Claus does not exist? What evidence is there that the Hindu god Shiva does not exist?

      That is the fundamental difference between there being no proof of a fact and there being "no evidence of a non-fact." The latter is meaningless.

      July 10, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
    • Troof

      If, like Jeff, believing in God is just like believing in an imaginary unicorn he just thought up, than yes, you are right.

      But, if there is a God he doesn't have to operate by your standards. Even if you teach 10 million people your standards, He doesn't have to follow it.

      God has made His ways pretty clear – humble yourself and ask. He seems to want us to get it into our hearts, not just our minds.

      July 10, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      God is a horrible communicator. If god exists, he needs to stop being so invisible and undetectable and come down here and clear up all the horrible confusion over what he is and what he wants. Why, there's thousands of different "denominations" even within the major faiths, and no faith has any way to prove that their reasoning is better than that of any other faith. Too bad you practice your god faith in any ole way and it doesn't matter, but there's only one right way to do chemistry and math and real world practice lets you know if you got the chemistry or math correct. Poor god, no proof. Aw..

      July 10, 2013 at 5:54 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Jeff- "No one has proved that gods exist."

      No one has proven that God (we'll go with Christianity since it's the largest religion currently) was a man made construct. So what's your point?

      July 10, 2013 at 5:58 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Troof,
      "But, if there is a God he doesn't have to operate by your standards. Even if you teach 10 million people your standards, He doesn't have to follow it."

      - Nor by yours either. Why would you trust such a being?

      ------------------------

      " He seems to want us to get it into our hearts, not just our minds."

      - By playing the part of an ambiguous trickster? A real (smart) god would know precisely what it would take for us to believe. Again, how can you trust such an inept being?

      July 10, 2013 at 6:07 pm |
    • Troof

      Captain Obvious

      If you can't detect or see God, maybe it is your pride, hypocrisy and wickedness getting in the way.

      July 10, 2013 at 6:07 pm |
    • Just the Facts Ma'am...

      If you can detect or see God, you need to see a good psycologist because your imagination is getting the better of you.

      July 10, 2013 at 7:37 pm |
    • fintastic

      @Troof "Where did Jeff disappear to with his evidence that there is no God?"

      What a wonderful statement of ignorance.

      July 11, 2013 at 11:05 am |
  2. Will

    Man, if this author had written an article about Christianity or Judaism or Islam or Mormanism with the same sarcasm and condescension as he did in this article believers in those religions would be going nuts.

    July 10, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Um, I'm not sure you noticed, but Satanism is a form of Christianity (Or at least Judaism)

      It's like The Avengers. Their story only exists because of previous stories being mixed together like Hulk and Thor

      You find the same thing in Predators Vs Aliens, and in Satanism.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
  3. Something interesting

    I've always wondered, did anybody else notice that if you trace around a pentacle that it forms the shape of a carbon atom?

    July 10, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
    • My Dog is a jealous Dog

      No – a Benzene ring forms a pentagram. An atom is a point in space (unless you consider the shape of the electron shells).

      July 10, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
    • Something interesting

      I just meant the bucky ball diagram. I did not know that about the benzine ring.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • My Dog is a jealous Dog

      Oops – a benzene ring is 6 carbon atoms (not 5), so it forms a hexagon and not a pentagon.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • My Dog is a jealous Dog

      Graphene is a sheet of carbon atoms in a hexagonal tiling arrangement. A "buckyball" is a three dimensional carbon atom ball – named after the geodesic domes created by Buckminster Fuller and are constructed with a combination of hexagons and pentagons.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • Something interesting

      I just looked it up benzine ring is six sided shape, I meant the five sided shape in the middle of the pentagram listed above. That looks more like a diagram for carbon.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      Not really my forte' – but Pentene has 5 carbon atoms

      July 10, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Atoms are three-dimensional. If you try to "trace" one in two dimensions you'll get a circle, unless you're accounting for quantum fluctuations, and then we'd really need to go back and look at the three-dimensional possibilities to see what two-dimensional tracings would be possible. I think the most simple would be hydrogen, and I believe it has 16? possible "tracings?" I have no idea how you would go about finding all the possible "tracings" for a carbon atom, but I think you'd need a stack of graph paper and some sort of computer program?

      Same problem with multi-atom structures. They'd have different possible tracings depending on the angle of the "viewpoint." If you look at a carbon ring on it's side, you would trace an "l" or a "–" or a "/"

      I have to agree, though, the shapes and patterns can be interesting and amusing stuff.

      By the way, if someone sees something wrong with any of the above statements, please correct the error/point it out to me. Thanks.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
    • ME II

      Actually, Buckminsterfullerenes (aka bucky balls. aka Carbon-60), like soccer balls are mostly hexagons, with fewer pentagons, 12 I think.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
  4. palintwit

    Here is something funny. Fox News is wholly owned by News Corp.
    News Corp's second largest stockholder is Prince Alwaleed of Saudi Arabia.
    Fox is owned by Arab Muslims.

    July 10, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • palintwittwit

      That's just a rumor started on a CNN blog site...

      July 10, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
    • palintwit

      Not a rumor. Google it and see for yourself. This guy's is Rupert's good buddy.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
  5. lionlylamb2013

    I have to run and visit my new shrink rapper. The oldie one retired and is replaced by one I have yet to meet. See you all at my next conveniences. (Probably around 4ish of 5ish) Tata for now all you enamored and villainous ducklings. May everyone find joy in my leaving you all toward your own sense and sensibilities wordage usages without me butting in for at least a few hours..

    July 10, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
  6. Reality

    Beyond the inanity of Satan:

    And why are there ~ one million abortions every year in the USA?

    The failure rate of unprotected se-x ? As per Guttmacher, 85%

    The most effective forms of contraception, ranked by "Perfect use":

    – (Abstinence, 0% failure rate)
    – (Masturbation, mono or mutual, 0% failure rate)

    Followed by: (the two most widely used forms of contraception)

    The Pill, at 0.3 percent (33,000 unplanned pregnancies)

    Male condom at 2.0 percent (138,000 unplanned pregnancies)

    So where is the problem?

    ACTUAL FIRST-YEAR CONTRACEPTIVE FAILURE RATES – Guttmacher Inst-itute

    Percentage of women experiencing an unintended pregnancy

    Method……………..Typical %

    Pill……… 8.7 (resulting in one million unplanned pregnancies- the Pill was not taken daily was the major reason for the high failure rate)

    Male condom ……….17.4 (resulting in one million unplanned pregnancies- the condom was available but was not used is the major reason for the high failure rate)

    All the numbers are posted on line by Guttmacher if you want to run the calculations.

    So again we see the BRUTAL EFFECTS OF STUPIDITY!!!!
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    July 10, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Mary was 100 percent abstinent.

      Or at least that was what the Centurion told her to tell Joseph.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • jazzguitarman

      I'm Ok with calling the men and women involved in unplanned pregnancy stupid. This is why I'm a big supporter of Planned Parenthood. But since it isn't helpful for society to have stupid people raising children (especially if they don't have the fiscal means to do so), I want that stupid women to have an abortion. Taxpayers shouldn't have to support the kids of stupid deadbeats.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • Reality

      Why the Christian Right no longer matters in presidential elections and why the Stupid Majority won the White House yet again:

      All the conservative votes in the country did not help the "pro-life" presidential candidate, Mitt Romney, in 2012 as the "Immoral/Stupid Majority" rules the country and will be doing so for awhile. The "Immoral/Stupid Majority" you ask?

      The fastest growing USA voting bloc: In 2008, the 70+ million "Roe vs. Wade mothers and fathers" of aborted womb-babies" whose ranks grow by two million per year i.e. 78+ million "IM" voters in 2012.

      2008 Presidential popular vote results:

      69,456,897 for pro-abortion/choice BO, 59,934,814 for "pro-life" JM.

      2012 Presidential popular vote results
      65,899,660 for pro-abortion/choice BO 60,929,152 for pro-life MR

      And the irony:

      And all because many women fail to take the Pill once a day or men fail to use a condom even though in most cases these men have them in their pockets. Yes indeed, Obama owes a lot to this less than bright majority !!!

      Obviously, political leaders in both parties, Planned Parenthood, parents, the "stupid part of the USA" and the educational system have failed miserably on many fronts considering a condom cost less than 50 cents.

      July 10, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
  7. JDV

    Ahhh Satan......unbearable torment awaits you and those who spit on the sacrifice of Jesus for the forgiveness of their wrongdoings!

    July 10, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      I'm pretty sure I could work up the saliva if somebody could just show me where this supposed "sacrifice" actually is.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • lionlylamb2013

      Hi there JDV,

      Detestable are those spring chickens who pick and peck with no sullen reasoning. It makes me wonder as to the emotionalized states of religiously convicted folks on either side of one's coinage.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      What does that mean exactly? died for our sins? how does that work? It sounds like a nonsense phrase that doesnt actually mean anything. Its like you arent supposed to peep behind the curtain but just accept the phrase as some kind of deep mystical statement, full of meaning........oooh, he died for our sins you know....did he?.....yes.......what does that mean then?.......i dont know, but it sounds good doesnt it?

      whereas what really apparently happened was he was caught, tried and executed by the romans, but that doesnt sound as good.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • JDV

      Hello fellow humans – believe what you wish as I am not here to convert anyone – you are allowed to choose your own fate. Inst God such a gentleman in not forcing you to follow Him? Yes he is!

      July 10, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • Reality

      (from Professor Crossan's book, "Who is Jesus" co-authored with Richard Watts)

      "Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us."

      "Traditionally, Christians have said, 'See how Christ's passion was foretold by the prophets." Actually, it was the other way around. The Hebrew prophets did not predict the events of Jesus' last week; rather, many of those Christian stories were created to fit the ancient prophecies in order to show that Jesus, despite his execution, was still and always held in the hands of God."

      "In terms of divine consistency, I do not think that anyone, anywhere, at any time, including Jesus, brings dead people back to life."

      July 10, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      JDV

      "Inst God such a gentleman in not forcing you to follow Him? "

      A gentleman?! Believe in and worship me, or you'll burn for eternity! If that isn't "forcing", I don't know what is.

      A gentleman? No, more like a hideous thug – "Your money or your life". Good thing 'he' doesn't exist.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      God allows a place of eternal torture to exist when he could just as easily destroy it. Can anybody think of a worse terrorist than that?

      July 10, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • JDV

      Ah well you see, no, that's not how it goes.

      It's more like "If you believe in me and accept my sacrifice to erase your wrongdoings, than I will provide you with everlasting peace and joy available only to those who trust in me"

      "The other guy (satan) is a liar and murderer who has been eternally condemned and hopes you will be tormented with Him. I came to give you a way out of that torment if you freely accept my sacrifice."

      July 10, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      God would only be good if he did not allow evil choices to exist. A good parent wouldn't put out a bowl of cereal next to a bowl of razor blades and let the babies choose. We would imprison such a parent for the same reason we should reject bible god.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • JDV

      You're blaming the wrong guy here – Satan is the one who provides you with the wrong decisions while God provides you with the good ones and than you choose your meal. See how we are not forced?

      July 10, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
    • captain america

      you should read a bible if you think that god of theirs is a saint he did in millions and satan only did in what 10 people or something so if were keeping score looks like your sky friend is a pretty angry dude

      July 10, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • JDV

      I've read the Bible captain and what I've told you is what I've read for myself. How many times have you read it to be able to understand who God is and who Satan is?

      July 10, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      JDV,

      The "God" character of the Hebrews is just as hideous a monster as the "Satan" character (moreso, actually, since he's allegedly in control of *everything*). If you wish to put a white hat on him (or a halo), and spin things and fantasize about this character's loveliness to make yourself feel good, go ahead - I think it's silly and dishonest .

      July 10, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
    • JDV

      Well thanks – at the end of the day (no disrespect) it does not really matter to me what you or anyone else thinks – all that matters to me is what God thinks of me as I faithfully await the rewards of his promises in His son the Christ.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'JDV
      Ah well you see, no, that's not how it goes.
      It's more like "If you believe in me and accept my sacrifice to erase your wrongdoings, than I will provide you with everlasting peace and joy available only to those who trust in me"'

      doesnt god 'judge' us when we die? doesnt he 'punish' us if we made choices he doesnt agree with? Someone said he was like 'your rmoney or you life' but in fact he is more like a mobster with a gun to your head going 'ok you can choose to follow me, do what i say, worship me, or i can shoot you in the head as punishment....but its totally your choice and it shows how much i love you by giving you that choice'

      July 10, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • fintastic

      @JDV....."You're blaming the wrong guy here – Satan is the one who provides you with the wrong decisions while God provides you with the good ones and than you choose your meal. See how we are not forced?"

      Ahhhhh! the the convienent excuse for the deluded!.... god does the good stuff, satan does the bad stuff... what a joke.

      July 11, 2013 at 11:10 am |
  8. lionlylamb2013

    Has anyone ever known that lithium is an ingredient found in many suns?

    July 10, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Especially the man made ones

      July 10, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
    • lionlylamb2013

      W D 40,

      Lithium organically grown and sunnily needed in order to relieve any sun of its hurting feelings is a no brainer among all the various sons of Godly fervors.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • ME II

      Since Lithium condensed out (may not be the proper term) at the Big Bang, I'd be surprised if it wasn't in all suns.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • lionlylamb2013

      High 5 to ME II,

      Like I iterated in saying suns and not just ours. BTW, what is the true purpose of our medication we call lithium? Is it for psychiatric means or,,, ?

      July 10, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • My Dog is a jealous Dog

      Lithium is often prescribed as an anti-psychotic Keep taking it..

      July 10, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
  9. William Demuth

    Michelle Bachman is complaining the Russians wont let the Fundies buy any more Russian babies.

    Frankly I would rather rot in a gulag than wake up with that wacko witch as mommy.

    That is truly a hell on earth.

    July 10, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • lionlylamb2013

      W D 40,

      Your connotation is received and filed away for safety's sake! 😀

      July 10, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
  10. Colin

    I miss Chad. At least he would engage in a cogent manner.

    July 10, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • Everyone else (- the few loonie atheists)

      We wish you would, too.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • Observer

      Everyone else,

      "loonie atheists" don't believe in unicorns and talking animals like Christians do.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • lionlylamb2013

      Hi there Colin-ectomy, LoL,

      Chad was a chivalrous nerdy Christianized & soulfully potential adversary. You gotta love the missionary positions before one can carry out the crudest of the most popularized positioning ways.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • Everyone else (- the few loonie atheists)

      You don't speak for all "loonie atheists", that is impossible. You are delusional.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • Everyone else (- the few loonie atheists)

      If you are not a Christian, you don't decide what they believe. That is arrogant.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      We atheists aren't making stuff up. THEY are the ones that claim to believe in talking animals and magic spells. Should we not believe that the Christians believe what they say they believe?

      July 10, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      @Everyone else (- the few loonie atheists)

      Someone who doesn't know the difference between "loonie" (a Canadian dollar coin) and a "loony" (a silly person) does not deserve having his/her words to be given any importance. Pfui.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • Everyone else (- the few loony atheists)

      Thanks, I learn from my mistakes.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • ME II

      @Everyone else (- the few loonie atheists),
      "If you are not a Christian, you don't decide what they believe. That is arrogant."

      That seems rather hypocritical coming from someone using the name "everyone else".

      July 10, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Oh, snap!

      July 10, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • Everyone else (- the few looney atheists)

      I am 100% just as hypocritical as you are. No doubt.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
  11. William Demuth

    The Satan of Paradise Lost fame was a noble creature, worthy of compassion.

    Alas, Satan, like Jesus is just a Bronze Age story designed to enthrall simple minded people

    July 10, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • lionlylamb2013

      W.D. 40 weight,

      I contest your mockery even though much of your wordage usages are complacently configured into a time lapse rationalism.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Its my reelection of the didactic of ethno-materialism as a cognizant pseudo intelligentsia

      July 10, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
    • lionlylamb2013

      WD-40,

      Point taken. I digress on occasional rhythmic salutations but at least I am morally and civilly restrained away from mimicking barbarisms that play center stages around religious contemporaries!

      July 10, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • Lee

      You make fun of people all the time, lionlylamb. You just think that because you do it in nearly intelligible prose, nobody notices. Hypocrite!

      July 10, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • fintastic

      Lambchops;

      Ther a comethis hear, ther a sleep to gread o'er with a coil, and those bourn no more; and the natural count we end lose the under retural shocks thers thus the pause.

      July 11, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
  12. DnnmuN

    You are all fools in your pointless arguements! Go find a job – if not Im sure there's plenty to do around the house.

    July 10, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • Lee

      Says the guy doing the same thing.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • snowboarder

      they're paying me $65.80 an hour right now. how about you?

      July 10, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      I don't get paid by the hour... I get an annual salary that is split into 12 months.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • snowboarder

      @twin, mine is salary also, but it is broken down in my paystub by hour.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • We're not gonna take it

      You're all worthless and weak!

      July 10, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      Looked up my paystub... shows monthly breakdown... but not hourly wage... my firm separates wage workers from non-wage workers... our admin people are wage workers...

      July 10, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • lionlylamb2013

      Reprobate minds are our lots in Life's consecrations within many conjuring folks who seem to deplore their own wayfaring mindedness exploratory expletives.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • captain america

      i dont argue i just present facts take it or leave it

      July 10, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
  13. MD

    I know we rot – but something tells me the Spirit/Soul of a person doesnt cease to exist. I wonder what REALLY happens to that.

    July 10, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • William Demuth

      It doesn't exist, so nothing happens to it.

      Just some bio chemical reactions that stop reacting

      You live, you die, you rot and you are forgotten. It is the logic of all known history.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Most likley the energy that is within a person, will dissipate once the focal point of that energy can no longer sustain it, much like a fire. That energy would then be free to interact with the rest of the universe as it did before being tied to one life form.
      Law of conservation of energy would most likely apply, but until we have a better definition of what life energy is, we cannot knwo for sure. One thing that is almost certain, by all laws of physics we currently have, the energy would not be coherent as it is in our bodies, and seperated from the corporeal, would cease to be sentient.
      Just a theory based on current scientific understanding.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • snowboarder

      what spirit/soul?

      July 10, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • lionlylamb2013

      Hello M.D.,

      William is righteous in that our spirited souls do not exist for they are made from nothingness which is God's Holy Spirit.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • DM

      If there is no soul/spirit, where do feelings and emotions come from? Chemical reactions?

      July 10, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Yes DM

      Role up your sleeve and I can inject any emotion you want.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
    • WASP

      @ MD: yes it's chemical reactions because i can give you a drug and your emotions can go from happy to sad to whatever i choose depending on the drug used.

      humans are merely the most advanced living processing unit ever created. 🙂

      July 10, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • lionlylamb2013

      Hi there Richard C.

      Mankind's considerations regarding the synergies of energies are corporeal in our natured understanding ways. While Nothingness as ever being a tempered rationalism, all materialized issuances are but sublimations of Nothingness's yearnings to bring forth that which is materially contrived.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • snowboarder

      @dm, yes, chemical reactions. notice that if the soul was not part of the flesh, and emotions and feeling were a part of it and not the body, they would not be affected by drugs or brain injury, but we know that they are. yours is a false premise.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • ME II

      @MD,
      I'd be interested to know what the "something" was that told you. Perhaps it can tell you and us how it knows.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • JimK57

      MD
      I speak from personal experience that life does not end after we die. I have no physical proof to offer you. But I encourge you to read about NDE research. Also gnostic texts are interesting too. Well wishes to you.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • Just the Facts Ma'am...

      The study of NDEs say's as much about the afterlife as turning off the lights in your bedroom at night does about the boogie man.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      JimK57
      You have experiences with near death experiences, and you extrapolate into after death. That logic does not follow.
      Until you have a death experience you do not have any idea about what happens at death. As long as you are alive, your brain is creating thought, which can be interpretted in many ways.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • Athy

      Wild dreams reported by patients who nearly die are not proof for a life hereafter.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • JimK57

      Richard
      I have no proof so I cannot dispute your opinion. I was only respnding to the OP question and offering some guidence.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • Judas Priest

      @JKM57,

      I'm sorry, I don't mean to invalidate your experience, but more and more evidence is pointing to NDEs being the brain's response to dying, a physiological process but not a spiritual one. This is NOT to say that it is meaningless, or does not have a powerful and permanent impact on those who experience it. To be on the threshold of death and then to come back may be the most significant single event after birth that a human being can experience. I am glad that you are with us.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • Judas Priest

      Apologies – JimK57. Bad typing fingers today.
      It also occurs to me that the near death experience is about the pinnacle of gnosis. At least on this side of the threshold.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • JimK57

      Thank you Judas Priest (one of my favorite bands by the way).
      I did not see a white light, a tunnel, dead relatives or any religious figure. What I did see was my own body and the experience felt as real as I sit here, even more real. It did not have that hazy dream feel or even the strange feeling when I saw myself while under gas at a dentist.
      It would like someone telling you right now you are dreaming. You clearly know you are not.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      JimK57

      It sounds to me like you are convinced. You are aware that "reality" is purely the name we give to the experience our brain creates for us, right? Because your reality is continually created by your mind working in concert with itself, there is simply no reason to believe that your "real" out-of-body experience was created by some other process.

      It makes sense that you are convinced by your own experience, but you should also consider the facts we know about the functioning of the human brain when trying to demonstrate your experience to others.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
    • My Dog is a jealous Dog

      I will not discount the notion that there may be something "like" a soul – but I consider it to be more like the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. However, I do not believe that it could not possibly survive the death of the body because it is embodied in the unique patterns of electrical and chemical signals in the brain. I think of it as something like emergent behavior in other dynamic systems.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • My Dog is a jealous Dog

      sorry for the double negative – oops.

      July 10, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • Saraswati

      No one has any knowledge at all of whether any thought will survive the demise of thought's corresponding neurons. If one claims they do, that person is talking through his or her ass.

      July 10, 2013 at 9:28 pm |
  14. Jeff

    Jesus Christ was rightfully crucified for his sins against God and humanity. Jesus pretended to be the son of God, but he was in fact a messenger of the devil. All those that accept Jesus into their hearts are inviting the devil in as well. Reject Jesus, the spawn of Satan! I am trying to save you Christians from damnation. That is the only thing that the blasphemer Jesus offers. He has created a false cult of peace around his teaches. The God of Abraham would have never allowed his crucifixion if Jesus was his son. The death of Jesus is proof that he was a fake. His resurrection was a fraud. Why do you think so few witnessed it? Why do their accounts vary so much?

    Jesus was an agent of the devil. Jesus was only trying to damn the innocent with his lies. Jesus deserved what he got.

    Ask yourselves this, Christians. What if you are wrong, and I am right? What if you are following the devil? Do you want to take that chance?

    July 10, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • captain america

      you already posted this before and no one cares besides neither exist so you wasted your time typing it

      July 10, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • MD

      I guess we are all waisting our time here – idiots we are. *yawn*

      July 10, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • Jeff

      captain america,

      I'm just trying to save your soul. You're welcome.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • I Don't Get It

      MD,

      How does one "waist" time? Wear your watch on your belt, or something?

      July 10, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
    • ME II

      @Jeff
      "I'm just trying to save your soul. You're welcome."

      Aren't you assuming 1) that souls exist and 2) that everyone wants it saved? That sounds a bit arrogant.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Jeff's position makes much more sense than the Christians, and I don't see an argument from their position against his.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • JDV

      Jeff's words are exactly what Satan himself would say – guess this would be a good place to make that comment.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • captain america

      there is no evidence of a soul

      there is no evidence of a god

      there is no evidence of a devil

      there is no evidence of a heaven

      there is no evidence of a hell

      using these facts it is safe to say that all religion is just a myth

      jdv your bubble is bursted

      July 10, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • Judas Priest

      Troll much?

      July 10, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
  15. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    Deus vult eam in asino

    July 10, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • Judas Priest

      Et quae Deus vult, Deus accipit. Adiuva nos Deus omnia.

      July 10, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
  16. MD

    I wonder what happens after we die?

    July 10, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • WASP

      @ AD: WE ROT.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      Worms eat your corpse... What else do you want to know?

      July 10, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • fintastic

      Yup.... worm food..... that's all folks!

      July 11, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
  17. SoulSorter

    Stupidly funny topic, Better chime in. Im sure a being of immoral and untrustworthy character as theologically rendered and put into the dual perspective of good/evil would be interpreted that he would be indifferent. But by the interpretation of religious text, It would seem most likley that he would indeed be pro-life. More potential for the foolish,the fallen, the failed, and the just completly f******. The corruption of character is in the crowd. Satan says touch your toes because I am all things to all men and will be for evermore. God I love the quotes!

    July 10, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • captain america

      tl;dr

      i stopped reading after you said youd better chime in

      July 10, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
  18. splassher6

    "I have not authorized any of our UK members to create such a thing." ugh I'm not a speciaist here but wouldn't that be up to like Statan?

    July 10, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • captain america

      you already posted this comment like 4 pages back and no one cared then and no one will now plus atheists dont believe in satan its evident you dont know that satanists are atheists and what is statan?

      July 10, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
  19. shadwell

    @Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam Miracle of the sun in 1917 was a UFO, not an act of god. Give your head a shake..........

    July 10, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
    • Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam

      Lets' see -The Atheists and Communists witnessed the sun 'dancing' [their words reported by a Communist journalist] and almost reaching the field where they stood.
      Get the point sonny – they WITNESSED it – they were THERE and you, who saw nothing BELIEVE it was a UFO!!!!!!!..............
      You have no facts............... no witnesses..................you weren't there........you ignore thousands of eyewitness accounts ...........you have no idea what happened BUT you can state with unbelievable ignorance and unwarranted arrogance that it was a UFO? Purleeeeze!

      By God presenting the miracle of the sun – the WHOLE of Communist/Atheist Portugal converted to Catholicism. Why ? Because they witnessed a MIRACLE!

      July 10, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • Observer

      Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam,

      From thousands and thousands of years of history, you are trying to make a case based on an incident that might have been little more than an optical illusion caused by atmospheric conditions.

      Have you ever seen mirages or shimmering effects when looking down a road, for instance?

      Is this the best you can find?

      July 10, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      @Ad Majorem – LOL a 'miracle'... you are such a retard... thanks for making humanity a little dumber everytime you type...

      July 10, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam,

      "By God presenting the miracle of the sun – the WHOLE of Communist/Atheist Portugal converted to Catholicism."

      What in the heck are you talking about? No such mass "conversion" of atheists ever happened... and Communism did not even appear in Portugal until the 1920s, well after your "miracle".

      July 10, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • Just the Facts Ma'am...

      "What in the heck are you talking about? No such mass "conversion" of atheists ever happened... and Communism did not even appear in Portugal until the 1920s, well after your "miracle".

      "The most widely cited descriptions of the events reported at Fatima are taken from the writings of John De Marchi, an Italian Catholic priest and researcher. De Marchi spent seven years in Fátima, from 1943 to 1950, conducting original research and interviewing the principals at undisturbed length"

      It is because most of their accounts were not written down for over 25 years after the event. And as any psycologist can tell you our memories of events get clearer and more accurate and concise the longer it is between the event and the re-telling of the event, right? Oh, no wait, i'm being told it's the exact opposite of that...

      July 10, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
      Lets' see -The Atheists and Communists witnessed the sun 'dancing' [their words reported by a Communist journalist] and almost reaching the field where they stood.
      By God presenting the miracle of the sun – the WHOLE of Communist/Atheist Portugal converted to Catholicism. Why ? Because they witnessed a MIRACLE!'

      Yet again you lie. They were not 'atheists and communists', and the 'WHOLE' of 'communist/atheist portugal did not convert to catholicism. It did not happen. Again I state, the majority of the people that had gathered were already believers who had gone there because of the claims. And if you look at the sun for too long then yes you will see the sun whirling about the sky.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
  20. Bootyfunk

    Satan kills ten people in the bible, Job's family. he kills them only with God's permission. God, on the other hand, destroys whole cities of people, not to mention the millions he drowned in his great flood (including babies). is there even a debate about who is more evil? the devil only kills with God's permission.

    July 10, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
    • captain america

      neither exist so who cares what the bible says

      July 10, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
    • Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam

      The people of Sodom & Gomorrah and the others you mentioned were ALL WARNED beforehand to stop their evil ways and to STOP abusing God's gift of life....they ignored the warnings and God took back what He had given them in the first place. That's fair enough.

      Nineveh was due to be demolished by God for the same reason so God sent Jonah to warn them what would happen if they carried on – but THEY listened and changed their ways and were SAVED. Fair enough

      YOU need to understand that warnings have been given to us by Mary [Mother of Jesus], Saints and normal chosen people and we are ignoring THEM so NOW we're heading for the same punishments. WE do not question God – WE do as God wishes.

      And the miracles I mentioned are not BS – as I thought, you don't have the intellect or will to read about them, you just do a "usual" disrespectful rant without benefit of facts. Sad to be so blinkered and lacking in rational logic!

      July 10, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • captain america

      ad miracles stopped happening when the camera was invented nice try but fail fail fail fail god dont exist bubble bursted nice knowin ya

      July 10, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • Observer

      Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam,

      Less than FIVE SECONDS. That's all it would take for God to prove without any doubt that he exists and save billions and billions of souls.

      That's too much to expect from him.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • WASP

      @AD: "disrespectful rant without benefit of facts."

      ok you want facts? let's trade facts then, how about it? my knowledge against yours?

      1) everything is made of energy
      2) energy CAN NOT be created nor destroyed
      3) energy merely changes from one form to another; matter/ energy conversion
      4) if energy can not be created nor destroyed then it remains a a constant 100%
      5) energy will always remina constant for ALL ETERNITY, thus the universe either recycles itself, or never stops exsisting
      6) you "idea of a god" violates the basic laws of the universe, thus he can't exsist because we do.

      BIBLICAL KNOWLEDGE.

      ask your god to prove himself, he did it for ELIJAH.............amoung others.
      1 KINGS 18:36-38
      36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: “Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command.
      37 Answer me, Lord, answer me, so these people will know that you, Lord, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again.”
      38 Then the fire of the Lord fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.

      SO LET'S SEE YOUR GOD

      July 10, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam

      @Observer – It says in the Bible that WE do not test God.

      He has sent messengers – St Faustina, Bernadette [Lourdes], the 3 shepherd children at Fatima, the young people of Medjugorje to warn us to mend our ways just as he did with the world before the Flood and Sodom and Gomorrah. They didn't listen to the warnings so they were eradicated. The people of Nineveh were warned - they listened -- Nineveh was saved!
      If you want PROOF from God that He loves us and wants to save us all you only have to look at the Miracle of Jesus; His birth, life, death and Resurrection. What MORE do you expect?

      To be chosen by God, and by accepting His gift of Faith, we are receiving the most precious gift in the world. God is indeed LOVE and His mercy is endless.

      For those who don't see it as a free gift look at it this way:-
      You work hard and you get paid – it's not always easy but the reward is financial security
      You live with and for God and you get eternal happiness – life isn't easy but the reward is breathtaking.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • Observer

      Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam,

      Yes, God could take less than 5 seconds to save billions of souls, but that is asking too much of him.

      July 10, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam

      @ Wasp – you need to visit the 3 ws.godandscience.org and LEARN!

      You also forgot to mention that when a seed falls into the ground it is DEAD. When the time is right is comes back to life and thrives.
      But PHYSICS and science say that once something is dead it CANNOT live again without a PRIME MOVER. Since there is no prime mover in a dead seed or soil – explain how every Fall seeds drop and every Spring they sudden nly produce abundance?
      Don't give me your opinion give me FACTS. Unless there is a Supreme Creator – GOD – wWHO exactly is the prime mover?

      July 10, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • Observer

      Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam

      "You also forgot to mention that when a seed falls into the ground it is DEAD"

      Wow! Please take a beginner's class in biology or read "Biology for Dummies". That is really pathetic.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Colin

      @ ad Majorem etc.

      I randomly chose one of your proof point, the so called "miracle of the sun" at Fátima. I di so becuase I actually looked in to it once. Have a look at my article "Fátima, Eat Drink and See Mary," published on a blog I used to maintain. http://www.thinkingatheist.blogspot.com. It is one of the two published in May of 2012.

      The net out is that Fátima was a non-event and Bernadette was a barking mad schitzophrenic.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
      A seed is not dead...that is a fact.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Colin

      "You also forgot to mention that when a seed falls into the ground it is DEAD." Where the hell did you read that !!

      The law of the total conservation of mass and energy abrogates the need for a "prime mover." That is the very crux of the law.

      July 10, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
    • WASP

      @ad:"Don't give me your opinion give me FACTS"

      you know i love people like you, because my increased intellect looks so much better when compared to someone as brain dead as yourself.
      FACTS ARE THINGS THAT CAN BE SHOWN TO BE TRUE; your god along with the billion or so along side him have no proof what so ever.

      you BELIEVE/ have faith in a god..................that is all. 🙂

      July 10, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'You also forgot to mention that when a seed falls into the ground it is DEAD.'

      no its not, what are you on about? if you cant even get basic stuff like that right how on earth do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you try to claim nonsense like the sun came so close as to almost touch a field?

      July 10, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • WASP

      @ADD: just to prove my point

      "But PHYSICS and science"

      PHYSICS IS A FIELD OF SCIENCE!

      July 10, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • fintastic

      @Ad Major...... "If you want PROOF from God that He loves us and wants to save us all you only have to look at the Miracle of Jesus; His birth, life, death and Resurrection. What MORE do you expect?"

      Resurrection? there was no "resurrection" that is pure mythology!.... ..... when you make claims, you need to provide evidence to back them up. You have ZERO evidence.

      July 11, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.