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 The UK Church of Satan says it supports a variety of views on abortion. But is the church real?
July 9th, 2013
03:27 PM ET
Satanists square off on abortion (Yes, really)By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN)- Are Satanists for or against abortion? Apparently, there's a hot debate. A group calling itself the "UK Church of Satan" on Twitter says it's open minded, tweeting out "Why Wouldn't Satanism be pro-life?" on July 5. But the High Priest of the New York-based Church of Satan says it's squarely in the abortion-rights corner. How to settle this diabolical duel? Let's back up first. As Texas legislators debated a law last week that would restrict abortions in the Lone Star State, a group of abortion rights protesters tried to drown out a group of anti-abortion protesters at the state capitol by chanting "Hail Satan!" The phrase trended on Twitter. Megapastor Rick Warren rapped our wrists (and The Associated Press's, too) for not covering the "Hail Satan" serenade. Actually, pastor, our man Josh Rubin was on the ball. The UK Church of Satan (assuming it's real) jumped on the trend, tweeting on July 3:
Which raises the question: What does Satanism represent? We asked the New York-based Church of Satan, and we got an earful. First of all, Magus Peter H. Gilmore, High Priest of the Church of Satan, told us, there is no "UK Church of Satan." "I have not authorized any of our UK members to create such a thing claiming to represent our organization, its members and our philosophy," Gilmore said. "So, whoever is behind that feed is committing a fraud." Gilmore's group, which, unlike the UK church, has a website, also keeps a P.O. Box in New York City. (Radio City Station of all places. Watch out, Rockettes.) As a matter of policy, the Church of Satan doesn't give out exact membership numbers, the magus said, but it's in the thousands. "Our organization, founded by Anton LaVey in 1966, is worldwide," Gilmore told CNN in an e-mail, "and we have many members throughout the UK and none of them have heard of any self-proclaimed 'Church of Satan in England.' There was a hoax using a title like this a year or so ago as a political prank." We put the question to the UK Church of Satan, who said, "There is no 'UK' Church of Satan. It's worldwide. We represent and connect those followers 'in' the UK." We've followed up with more questions but haven't heard back yet. To be sure, the UK Satanists' tweets have been surprisingly unsulfurous. Take this one, for example:
Or this sweet-natured nugget:
This is a church that worships the Prince of Darkness? And who in hell is JMG? Getting back to abortion, here's what the supposed UK Church of Satan said:
Yeah, kinda, Gilmore told CNN. But there's much more to it than that. Many Satanists practice "rational birth control," saith Satanism's high priest, leaving matters of personal morality up to individuals. "We generally consider the use of abortion to be the purview of the woman whose body is carrying the child," Gilmore said. "We consider sexual experiences to be an indulgence between consenting adults that should be taken seriously, particularly when the possibility of pregnancy is concerned." But the magus didn't appreciate hearing the name of his lord taken in vain. "Shouting `Hail Satan!' to abortion protesters is both ludicrous and meaningless," said Gilmore, who's led the Church of Satan since 2001. "Only attention-seeking fools would do so." Unsurprisingly, Satanists take a strong stand on separation of church and state, believing the government "should be entirely secular." "So religion should neither force upon nor deny an abortion for any woman, in our thinking," Gilmore said. "Freedom with responsibility is the hallmark of civilized behavior to the Satanist." Now that that's settled, what's the Satanic stance on gay marriage? *** In a follow-up email, Gilmore made it clear that Satanists don't actually deify Satan. In fact, they're atheist, he said, and use Satan as a "symbol of pride, liberty and individualism." "If you chose to mock us, then you should have done so based on what our philosophy actually is, rather than on an assumed `horror film' stereotype," the magus said. Fair criticism. We'll try to improve our coverage of Satanism. Oh, one more thing. Gilmore said the Church of Satan does approve of same-sex marriage.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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And we have really begun listening to Satan worshipers. Wow. Hey while we are at it, what do the Ku Klux Klan members think? How about Hitler worshipers? Satan is not pro life. He wants to wipe humanity off the face of the earth so he can shove God's nose in it. Don't be fooled because he is a liar and seeks nothing more than our complete destruction, after he has proven to God that we are worthless. How dare God put a being of clay above a being of fire. Remember his motivation. He ain't your friend.
Hey pal, they don't believe in satan. Man, that just has to hurt jumping on a subject you don't know anything about. Need a bandaid for that? BAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA
You seem rather overconfident in your knowledge about the motives of a being that is invisible and undetectable.
If Satan wants to wipe humanity from the face of the earth, why doesn't god stop him?
If I can't see it, it doesn't exist. And don't talk about any spiritual matters. I am a material being. Not a spiritual being. I am a material being having a material experience. Nothing more.
Soooomeone didin't read the article....
Satan is just as much a myth as your God.
Satan, the boogie man, fairies, gods, leprachauns and ghosts do not exist you imbecile.
JIC; You need help. The Satanists are less confused than you.
It's sad when people of any 'religion' try to inject their faith into the abortion discussion. Abortion is a matter of science, a matter of philosophy, and a matter of morality. Religion has nothing to do with it. Saying you oppose it for religious reasons doesn't help the cause and only serves to turn it into a religion-vs-atheism debate, which is not what it should be at all. We're arguing over the life of a child here, and the issue deserves a great deal more maturity and dignity than treating it as a petty dispute over beliefs.
Religion tells people how and what they should think scientifically, philosophically, and morally. Religious people see their religion as an authority on those matters. It's only natural that a hot-button issue like this would involve religious people inflecting their religious views.
Abortion is a matter of science..........................so killing is a matter of science? I forgot, unborn babies aren't human and don't feel anything until they leave their mother's birth canal.
Since I always try to tell people what to do, logically that must be what religion is trying to do.
@mbsmith91 Killing is a matter of morality. Science and philosophy determine the point at which life begins.
@dixie..........I'll give you maturity and REALITY. If the parents can't take care of the kids, guess who does? THE TAXPAYER. You, me and everybody else. I have no problem with pro lifers. I have a problem with pro lifers that don't offer any money to help these kids. This is the number one reason taxes go up. CHILDREN.
"Killing" is a practical act in that it drastically changes the course of events. (Think of soldiers in a war). Whether that killing is justified-ending-of-life or "murder" is up to morality which is informed by philosophy and science. (Religion is just a specific sort of philosophy).
WE HAVE A WINNER
I'd rather worship Satan. At least you know where he stands on issues. God is either evil, incompetent, or impotent with the way he interacts with the world. Given those options, I'll just pick Satan.
And, according to the bible, Satan is a lot more likely to tell the truth and not kill you. God changes his mind and lies and kills people all the time.
well obviously you already have
sounds like a typical Obama voter to me........
Joseph, you sound like a typical dumbass.
Then you have never studied the Bible.
Poor Joseph; too immature to accept the fact that his side lost. Bitterness isn't healthy dude. (and I didn't even vote for Obama).
Hard case for Satanists. If a fetus is killed (aborted) he or she goes directly to heaven. So What's the benefit of abortion for Satanists? But, on the other hand if he or she is born, then he could become a sinner and go to hell to increase the already big Army of demons. I guess we need more sinners in this society.
NO SUCH THING AS SIN
So, I guess that settles that! Next!
@Vence,
Actually, I don't think Satanists believe in the supernatural. It seems to be more like the idea of Satan as liberation from the idea of God.
1) you know Satanists don't actually worship Satan, right?
2) Most Satanists I've met don't believe in heaven or hell, so why would they care about who goes to either place based on mythology that they do not believe in?
Wow Vence – thanks for the perfect excuse to condone abortion. By your logic, all christian women should always get abortions to ensure their children are gauranteed access to heaven. After all, it's not this life that's important anyways...
Had no idea some of this ilk were so rational. nice to know. What percentage are thus?
All members of the actual "Church" of Satan are rational. Membership would be denied if they were not.
I don't know why anyone would want to worship satan. I find silk to be much more luxurious.
Satan's been worshiped for a long, long, time. His most recent incarnations are St. Ronnie Rayguns, King Shrub ll, Darrell Issa, Pat Robertson, the Aqua Buddha Family, "Pastor" Rick Warren and his fellow KKKhristians, and Rick Perry, to name but a few. ALL HAIL THE OMNIPOTENT AQUA BUDDHA!
Yeah, but it's so hard to pull thread out of a worm's butt...
What a joke.
Yes, all myth believers live a life of folly.
Actually, it kind of make sense. Over a quarter of pregnancies end up miscarrying, so nobody aborts more babies than god who is the "blessed controller of all things." If god and the Christians quit with the abortions, it would clear up a lot.
I"m probably one of the few non-religious people who is actually pro-life. I am against fetal pain. Proove to me that you can do your abortion without causing fetal pain. I also don't like the idea of people being that cavalier with human life. In so far as religions bow down to Satan, bow down to nothing or pray to Lex Luthor I'm fine with all that.
Do you think there is no pain in child birth. How insensitive! Think of the woman, not just your poor helpless and innocent living creature.
As someone else said, abortion is a rights trade-off; Rights of the women verses rights of a potential human being. I'm pro-choice since I side with the actual person over the potential one. But yes, people can disagree on if abortion should be legal or not without discussing religion.
Prove that plants and animals don't feel pain. Until then, stop eating them.
I understand how you feel. Fetuses can't feel pain until the 20th week; it would be nice to attempt most abortions before the fetus reaches that "age."
But really, decent education and even below-average critical thinking would result in far, far less unwanted pregnancies. I'm not necessarily against the concept of requiring "potential parents" to get some sort of license before they are allowed to procreate; after all, the state won't let you own a giraffe because it knows you don't have a clue about taking care of one, so why do they assume that any human can take care of another human baby?!?!?!
Skeptic Al raises a fine point, too. Some mothers spend days in horrible, agonizing labor. Most of us will die with some amount of pain, ourselves. What's a few seconds compared with that?
I don't remember feeling pain as a fetus until after the 22nd week.
Everyone is pro-life. I don't know anyone who is pro-death.
Please stop with the pro life crap. We execute people in this country! We start wars that kills hundred of thousands, We had a presidential candidate actually boast how he would cut/gut programs that poor people need to survive. We couldn't pass common sense gun control laws despite the fact that over 10,000 die a year from gun violence. So please cut the pro life garbage.
@A pro-lifer,
Does a fetus feel pain?
@Cpt. Obvious,
Not sure if you're serious, but I think that is a bad idea. Regardless of the whole eugenics issue, I couldn't support the government enforced contraception that I think would be required.
Being born is painful. Being alive is often painful. You're pretty much asking for an impossibility and then acting like it's the end all be all.
@Me II
I think it's about time to discuss difficult concepts like the one I propose. It's a difficult discussion, but it's just ideas, now. Nature is rather good at "culling the herd," and I think it may be much more sensible to control our own population (mostly) rather than have disease and starvation do it for us (mostly). Just looking at something as simple as soil, we know we've got serious, serious problems ahead. I'm not saying I have any answers, but intelligent population control might be worth the debate? Dunno.
@Cpt. Obvious,
"intelligent population control might be worth the debate"
Agreed. Just not sure that we'd agree on acceptable methods.
You want population control? Tell people to use birth control. Stop harassing people that want an abortion. Teach the true cost of children in school (That will scare them) Offer vasectomies and having your tubes tied at no extra cost.
All religions are protected...even the ones that make us uncomfortable.
Yep, like Southern Baptists, Pentacostals and Mormons.
Woo hoo!
Don't make me take an honest look at myself. I reserve the right to pass judgment on others!
CommonSensed, or the ever popular WBC...
Skeptic Al, have at it. Everyone knows we all judge others; at least you're honest and straightforward about it!
No one can "make" you do that, Al, and yes, you do have the right to judge others; although, you may lose some friends if you do it a lot. You may want to be somewhat introspective from time to time and self-critical. Your call.
The Bible can not expose unfortunate truths about human beings. It is too old and we aren't as stupid as those people were. They didn't even know how to drive cars.
Believing in God or Satan is like believing in Primus and Unicron from Transformers.
YOU MEAN PRIMUS AND UNICRON ARE NOT REAL???!!!
I am working for the Lordt! –
If you kept your paycheck stub you're about to be the most famous person in existence. I'll be glad to help you get in touch with the Nobel Prize folks, too. You'll be RICH! Need a personal a.s.sistant? I'll only charge you a t.ithe: one tenth.
No paycheck, but the healthcare is amazing!
Church of Satan has always been more respectable than many of the big religions purely for their honesty IMO.
The satanic bible is good reading.
Jesus preached loving your neighbor as yourself, the Satanist preach – screw the other person just love yourself. It is the perfect religion for the left which is full of immature narcissists.
LOL i love when people are taught the opposite. I thought we are socialist/communists who dont want anyone to succeed? Which is it you confused Muppet?
made up by cowardly american taliban who also believe in the tooth fairy, as do many stanists
It does sound like SOMEONE is immature... maybe the person calling other people names instead of actually talking to them, hmm?
So that is the reason the Christian right is trying to cut food stamps!
Huh? Fail.
You have this entirely wrong. Where christianity would preach to love all no matter what, satanism teaches that love is too powerful of an emotion to waste it on those who do not deserve it. Where christianity would preach to turn the other cheek to your enemy, satanism teaches that vengeance for having been wronged is acceptable. Do not confuse vengeance with violence. We do not condone that.
All hail Satan!
Look dudes I just need everyone to know I spent a huge amount of time in the eighties trying to "summon" satan. My cupboards never went "bang" the ouijah never worked by itself and I never saw red glowing eyes in my mirror. Unfortunately.
Wow, satanists speaking more logically than almost ANY Christian I've ever heard on abortion and separation of church and state.
Hail...ehhhhh...Satan?
Most of our founding fathers were of some denomination or other of Christianity or at least believed in a higher power, specifically a creator. They are the ones who created separation of church and state in America.
No wonder the Devil in the History Channel's "Bible Series" looked so much like Barock Hussein Obama.........they think exactly the same.
@Joseph
Hail Satan!
Always something stupid like this that cnn would have in the lame stream media...
You spelled "fox news" wrong.
Is that you Sarah Palin ?
Oh God, this dude thinks just like me... Whats next from these guys? Stop killing animals for their fur? His very smart wards : "Only attention-seeking fools would do so."
Unsurprisingly, Satanists take a strong stand on separation of church and state, believing the government "should be entirely secular."
"So religion should neither force upon nor deny an abortion for any woman, in our thinking," Gilmore said. "Freedom with responsibility is the hallmark of civilized behavior"
Actually, Satanism is against animals being killed for their fur, unless the meat is eaten as well.