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 The UK Church of Satan says it supports a variety of views on abortion. But is the church real?
July 9th, 2013
03:27 PM ET
Satanists square off on abortion (Yes, really)By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN)- Are Satanists for or against abortion? Apparently, there's a hot debate. A group calling itself the "UK Church of Satan" on Twitter says it's open minded, tweeting out "Why Wouldn't Satanism be pro-life?" on July 5. But the High Priest of the New York-based Church of Satan says it's squarely in the abortion-rights corner. How to settle this diabolical duel? Let's back up first. As Texas legislators debated a law last week that would restrict abortions in the Lone Star State, a group of abortion rights protesters tried to drown out a group of anti-abortion protesters at the state capitol by chanting "Hail Satan!" The phrase trended on Twitter. Megapastor Rick Warren rapped our wrists (and The Associated Press's, too) for not covering the "Hail Satan" serenade. Actually, pastor, our man Josh Rubin was on the ball. The UK Church of Satan (assuming it's real) jumped on the trend, tweeting on July 3:
Which raises the question: What does Satanism represent? We asked the New York-based Church of Satan, and we got an earful. First of all, Magus Peter H. Gilmore, High Priest of the Church of Satan, told us, there is no "UK Church of Satan." "I have not authorized any of our UK members to create such a thing claiming to represent our organization, its members and our philosophy," Gilmore said. "So, whoever is behind that feed is committing a fraud." Gilmore's group, which, unlike the UK church, has a website, also keeps a P.O. Box in New York City. (Radio City Station of all places. Watch out, Rockettes.) As a matter of policy, the Church of Satan doesn't give out exact membership numbers, the magus said, but it's in the thousands. "Our organization, founded by Anton LaVey in 1966, is worldwide," Gilmore told CNN in an e-mail, "and we have many members throughout the UK and none of them have heard of any self-proclaimed 'Church of Satan in England.' There was a hoax using a title like this a year or so ago as a political prank." We put the question to the UK Church of Satan, who said, "There is no 'UK' Church of Satan. It's worldwide. We represent and connect those followers 'in' the UK." We've followed up with more questions but haven't heard back yet. To be sure, the UK Satanists' tweets have been surprisingly unsulfurous. Take this one, for example:
Or this sweet-natured nugget:
This is a church that worships the Prince of Darkness? And who in hell is JMG? Getting back to abortion, here's what the supposed UK Church of Satan said:
Yeah, kinda, Gilmore told CNN. But there's much more to it than that. Many Satanists practice "rational birth control," saith Satanism's high priest, leaving matters of personal morality up to individuals. "We generally consider the use of abortion to be the purview of the woman whose body is carrying the child," Gilmore said. "We consider sexual experiences to be an indulgence between consenting adults that should be taken seriously, particularly when the possibility of pregnancy is concerned." But the magus didn't appreciate hearing the name of his lord taken in vain. "Shouting `Hail Satan!' to abortion protesters is both ludicrous and meaningless," said Gilmore, who's led the Church of Satan since 2001. "Only attention-seeking fools would do so." Unsurprisingly, Satanists take a strong stand on separation of church and state, believing the government "should be entirely secular." "So religion should neither force upon nor deny an abortion for any woman, in our thinking," Gilmore said. "Freedom with responsibility is the hallmark of civilized behavior to the Satanist." Now that that's settled, what's the Satanic stance on gay marriage? *** In a follow-up email, Gilmore made it clear that Satanists don't actually deify Satan. In fact, they're atheist, he said, and use Satan as a "symbol of pride, liberty and individualism." "If you chose to mock us, then you should have done so based on what our philosophy actually is, rather than on an assumed `horror film' stereotype," the magus said. Fair criticism. We'll try to improve our coverage of Satanism. Oh, one more thing. Gilmore said the Church of Satan does approve of same-sex marriage.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Obama was raised by 2 women, Stanley and his white grandmother ( who was scared of black people). The Muslim men that Stanley married took off, what a surprise. No wonder Barry has so many issues......
Hey Troll, how about posting your Obama hate garbage somewhere else, this is about Satanists and Abortion. Not Obama and your special "relationship" with him.
Yes, your comment has so much to do with the article. By the way, what is the reason for your issues?
Manuel,
Barack Obama graduated from Harvard Law School and is president of the United States.
I didn't do that well. How did you do?
As Trayvon's gf said, my name has nothng to do with race........but Manny, you look like a creepyasscracka!
Just looks like Manny there is just lonely and looking for attention. Probably because his mamma didn't hug him enough when he was a kid.
HEY! Finally someone we all can hate.
Satanism began as a mockery of the concept of worshipping any "god". Satanists don't actually believe in a red devil with horns and a tail that lives in a pit of fire. I think they're actually pretty funny people.
That must make for a really boring seance.
There is really a Satan, I used to have her as a next door neighbor. Nice body, evil temperment.
Satan is real folks! Beware of everlasting torment! Repent for the end draweth nigh!
People have been saying that for over two thousand years.
In Trayvon's defense, Obama's pastor, the Rev Wright, doesnt like creepy ass crackas either.......and neither does Barry!
Manuel,
Grow up.
Someone as mentally challenged at Manuel will never grow up. (DISCLAIMER: I mean no offence to people who are mentally challenged, who are way better than Manuel will ever be.)
These Satanists sound pretty reasonable for religious nuts. A lot more so than the Christians. In fact, I think we should do away with Christianity entirely and all become Satanists!
HAIL SATAN!
Corey sounds exactly like the people in the Obama administration. We know Obama isnt really a Christian, even though he pretends to be. In fact, he also pretends to be an American......but he isnt fooling most Americans anymore. We know that he is a fake, a fraud and a phony at best.
@Manuel – And we all know that you are an idiot.
Obama is only "phony" in that he gives us free phones which makes him AWESOME
Manuel sounds exactly like an old broken record.
HAIL SATAN!
Sheila is the lady in the youtube Ohio Obamaphone video! Try and refrain from that 3rd helping of food, would you please. Stop abusing your food stamps.......
Satan is a Christian god.
Manny there is just upset because he was turned down for the free phone. Kinda sad if you really think about it.
Wow, buying food with food stamps is abusing them, apparently. Mind-blowing insight there.
Manuel, what are you pretending to be? A caring human being doesn't appear to be on the list.
If someone designed this universe, they did a very poor job.
Agreed, unless......every possible universe exists. Perhaps each one has the cosmological constant set one "measurement" away from the next?
Then you just insulted yourself, moron.
nonsequitur, j
j
"Then you just insulted yourself, moron."
Just like Jesus would say. Oooops!
Jiffy Jeff,
You ever try putting together all the atoms to make a star or moon or planet? That my jiffy Jeff is very hard work! Once in a great while these atomic builders of the great and grand Cosmos of celestial contrivances worked very hard to establish all our viewable celestial wonders!
I wrote "Once in a great while these atomic builders of the great and grand Cosmos of celestial contrivances worked very hard to establish all our viewable celestial wonders!" (Dummy me for not proofreading)
I meant to write, Once in a great while these atomic builders of this great and grand Cosmos of celestial contrivances worked very hard to establish and fruition our Earth and bring forth our gracious Life forms!
Many people here seem confused about what Satanism actually is, but that's to be expected. The author also doesn't seem aware that Satanism is an atheistic religion, but he seems more focused on entertainment value than factual value in this article.
What's more amusing to me is that the "UK Church of Satan" Twitter owner seems confused over which side is "pro-life" and which is "pro-choice." There doesn't seem to be as much disagreement as the article author claims.
As a Satanist, I'm pro-choice, because I don't see evidence that unborn fetuses count as fully sentient, self-aware beings, and unlike born infants, they are not able to survive outside of their mother. If I considered fetuses to be sentient, or if there was a way for them to survive without forcing their mothers to continue the pregnancy, I might be pro-life instead.
we know what satanism is... it's people who worship satan and believe he will defeat jesus christ in the final battle. if youre following an atheistic movement then it's not satanism sorry
The Church of Satan, beloved by CNN followers everywhere......
A baby still relies on its mother for months after birth. It needs breast milk to survive. Should abortion continue to be an option until the child is completely self sufficient?
That's a question for society as a whole, Jim. What's your vote?
Cindy, Satanism was first codified by Anton LaVey as an atheistic movement.
Jim, no, because the specific mother is not necessary. Another woman could breastfeed the baby, or it could be fed with formula. The point is that, once a baby is born, if its mother doesn't want to take care of it, there are ways for others to keep it alive without forcibly extracting the mother's breast milk.
I happen to oppose after birth abortion but apparently it's a debatable issue. Should a conjoined twin be allowed to kill the other if the condition is affecting his quality of life?
@Jim
Another question for society as a whole. What's your vote? I prefer that we attempt to not let the living sp.e.rm meet the living egg and prevent pregnancy, or perhaps try to do most abortions before the 20 week mark when the fetus begins to feel pain. Your perspective is interesting about killing babies after they are born, but who knows? Perhaps you can get a pet.ition going and lobby for a referendum and vote and whatnot by the whole legal process. Good luck with your ideas.
I've watched religious docs on tv where people express a deep belief in the power of satan. Surely that's satanism?
Well it'll cut down on the number of Nephilim...
Who else but a disciple of Satan would borrow trillions $ from China, give it to Egypt (Muslim Brotherhood pals), take a $100,000,000 family vacation to Africa (his home continent) when his country is TRILLIONS in debt? I know its impossible for pregressives to comprehend that.........
Obama is celebrating Ramadan now that he is back from his $100,000,000 family vacation. Michelle is already planning her next vacation.
Obama acts like a conservative but the conservatives think he's one of them evil liberals because he's black. If Obama was liberal we'd have single payer health care, a cap on carbon, gun control, he would have ended the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq four years ago and shut down GITMO his first day in office. His failing is trying to work with you conservative idiots that can't see past his skin color. Now take the sheet off and put it back on your bed where it belongs!
Gratuitous slam on the POTUS? Color me shocked.
Belseth is evidence that liberalism is a mental disorder.......
Another childish "belief" with no evidence.
Okay, you don't really know what Satanism is so I won't blame you for this comment but if you did research you would find that it isn't 'a belief with no evidence. It's not a belief at all, more a sort of state of mind that everybody that believes in a god is making themselves a god so therefore we 'worship' ourselves. The 'deadly sins' are needed for basic human survival, so indulge as much as you can.
Oh, and it's called Satanism because it's funny. The reactions you get from people because they don't understand it and think you bow down to a evil demon overlord. It has nothing to do with invisible demon people.
@LH, All true, but it's still almost as childish as laughing at the word booger.
I actually don't give a crap about abortion. With the Republican Party doing my bidding these days in so many ways, I'm a fat and happy demon. Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
Bad news honey the strip turned into three blue sixes..I think it's yours. Love, Rosemary.
Actually Lucifer was an angel. FYI Lucifer promoted free will. The conservative Republicans would consider him evil because of his stance on personal freedom. They would also condemn Jesus as some poor lovin' hippie!
yea yea, tell em boss!
"Well, isn't that special?"
These supposed Satanists know not whom they serve it would seem... Satan is The Great Deceiver and his sole purpose is to Kill, Steal, Lie and Destroy. He is the utter opposite of the God of the Bible in character and purpose. He is now deceiving these followers: "Freedom with responsibility is the hallmark of civilized behavior to the Satanist."
But wouldn't the greatest deception be to get people to believe that Satan is God?
Why is random abuse of capitalization a requirement of railing about Satan? Is there a handbook or a pamphlet that states the rules on this?
sam, you'd have to ask Lycidas about capitalizing gods and such. He's the one to go to one the capitalization issue, apparently. You sure missed the conversation earlier today!
Yet another trait of sAtaN?
Hilarious...
Actually, satan and god are the same. They're both fictional.
Read the Bible sometime. It's hard to tell who is worse, God or Satan. God is the one that forces man to worship him or spend an eternity in hell. How psychotic is that?
Nope.
An "utter opposite" to a deity refutes the deity.
Where is the origin of the "utter opposite" ?
Unless it comes from the deity, the deity is not the creator of Reality, and only one component in the structure of Reality.
All believer in "demons and devils" need to read Dr. Elaine Pagels (Princeton) "The Origins of Satan".
The concept is a 100 % cooked up, humanly traceable concept in history, and completely ludicrous on so many levels.
There is not a shred of evidence for any "supernatural" being.
We were not created to love god. We were created to love ourselves.
We evolved as a mechanism of survival for a large number of genes.
I make it clear to my children my affection for them is just a product of evolution; a useful and handy survival mechanism.
You mean the god that was so "perfect" he screwed up making humanity so had to drown them, the god that, if he created the universe was stupid enough to put the tree with the apple on earth of all places.... the god that supposedly killed all first born... the god that told abraham to sacrifice his own son just to see if he would do it. the god that annointed saul then David becasue he was obviously too blind to see they would become corrupt???? that God?
ME II
"But wouldn't the greatest deception be to get people to believe that Satan is God?"
=>Correct, in the End of Days it will be Satan in the illusion of God called the Anti Christ who is worshiped by all but small remnant.
That's your decision as a parent, but at least you're not telling them that the being who you love the most and the being who loves you the most and them the most and who they should love the most and who is perfect might just torture them for all eternity and enjoy the smell of their burning souls forever and ever if they don't chant the right magic spell for forgiveness as the right time and in the right manner.
Your explanation about love isn't ideal, but it could be so much worse; I'll take it.
My reply was to Skeptic Al
@fred
What are the chances that YOU are already deceived? After all, if you were deceived, you'd not even know it. Right? And after all, can any of us imagine a more evil character than one who could eliminate a place of eternal torture and yet chooses to enjoy the smell of it forever instead? I don't think so.
You know you are stupid when you believe in Satan and Satanists don't.
They say that you will find that all those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will have the mark of the beast imprinted on their forehead, and they are the ones who will be tormented in the lake of fire and brimstone. What stupid people have that mark on their forehead? Doesn't sound like anyone I know. Stupid book.
Cpt.
If that were the case yes, however God does not take pleasure in any form of suffering and clearly made a way for all to avoid it. It goes against the stated attributes of God which is perfect love, mercy, kindness. Perfect justice demands consequence for sin. Jesus has already atoned for the consequence of sin so you have no cause to say anything negative about God.
Exactly what is it that keeps you from simply accepting the free gift? Excuses regarding proof etc. are nonsense because there is no proof either way, only reasons to accept or decline eternal life. Some do not want it at any cost such as Satan and his demons and they will receive just what the want.
I take it you prefer an unknown void just as the one you came from over an eternal Kingdom. Even if a Kingdom does not exist you get your wish. It is not logical or reasonable to reject the offer.
fred,
"the stated attributes of God which is perfect love, mercy, kindness."
Unlike God, my idea of LOVE isn't to send BILLIONS and BILLIONS of people to hell for not believing in something I refuse to prove.
You and I have different morals, and I'm proud of that.
Observer
Ok, so you believe in an accidental; universe, planet and man that happened out of a void. You believe that in the absence of an eternal record keeper or observer there will be a point in time where none of this ever existed.
And I am the crazy one?
Lmao at the Anton Levy followers Aliester Crowley is laughing in his grave at you idiots thinking you're Satanist by practicing Kabala.Anton Levy's father was a Rabbi
The man who sang “imagine no possessions” lived a millionaire’s life in a posh New York hotel.
He did say imagine
Imagine I'm not a hypocrite.
The being who supposedly says "Love your enemies" fries his forever and ever in never ending torture and fire.
Al, I don't need to imagine it. You don't seem to be a hypocrite. Perhaps I can imagine that you're intelligent?
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’" OT rubbish
"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven." NT Rubbish
He causes his sun to rise on the evil (Christians) and the good (atheists), and sends rain on the righteous (atheists) and the unrighteous (Christians).
If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?
Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
A "perfect" god would not be a hypocrite and tell us to love our enemies while he fries his forever in a never ending torture pit--making him the most evil being we can imagine in that he could eliminate hell but chooses to enjoy "the smoke of their torment" in his throneroom for all eternity. Seriously, we cannot imagine a more disgusting being than that.
Can you imagine becoming so evil that by just dwelling in the presence of a holy being causes nothing but torment? Phew, nonsense. Does this holy being offer forgiveness? I doubt it. No mercy!
Our "Perfect" god just lets you do whatever you want. What we do doesn't ultimately matter. We are not responsible.
Skeptic Al, perhaps you should try to make a bit more sense. Even though we can't think of a more hypocritical or disgusting god than the one in the bible is no reason to rejoice in the knowledge that he doesn't exist. Join with me. Be happy!
We are so much better than that god.
Being hostile and posting on a religion message board all day long makes me so happy. Who needs god?
Septic Al, That's right. Who needs god.
Why the EF is this a story?
Don; Belief is an opinion blog. It is NOT a news website. The reason this is a story is because pro-choice activist used the term Satan. To me that was a silly term to use.
I see your point jazz, fair enough.
Satan is the imaginary playmate of the imaginary friend of a subcategory of believers. Not much to work with there. Someone did mention Satinism, a while back. There are real possibilities there. A Satin cult could be a real comfort to people with sensitive skin. Or anyone who just loves to writhe and slide around in cool, luxurious sheets.
So, Tom, you would agree it was rather silly for pro-choice people to tell Hail Satan to anti-abortion people. Why would pro-choice people mention a myth? To me it doesn't help their case.
Satan is Santa's gay husband. Seriously. They live in Wyoming.
Only non-believers would not believe this.
Wyoming? Really? Is there a Yelp review?
Too cold for Satan at the North Pole, and too hot for Santa at Yellowstone. (Satan is a great fan of Yellowstone, and has been known to stand above Old Faithful when it blows.)
So the loving couple compromised and live in Wyoming. (And no, Wyoming is likely 10-15 years away from getting Yelp. They don't even get the Internet there yet).
Hey, anyone ever notice that Santa and Satan have the same 5 characters? Whooo .... wow, that's so creepy.
Well that explains why the polar ice caps are going to melt! Global warming..ha!
Hey skeptic al:
Then I guess you don't believe in wind, since you can't see it – fool.
I can create wind with my mouth. Big deal.
Transparent, does not mean it is undetectable.
Get it cold enough and you can even see it. LO2 + LN2
But it is not like we can humble ourselves and see God or anything like that.
Wow.
The wind can be felt, measured, and used.
We can't measure and use god, so he doesn't exist. Duh.
"Humbling oneself" is an indeterminate process like "feeling peaceful." It doesn't seem to do anything; it seems to be a brain state in an individual. And since we can't detect any gods, it would be pretty hard to do something indeterminate to something that can't be detected.
The fact that we can't measure anything "god-ish" simply means that we can't state for certain that it does or does not exist. The concept is purely theoretical.
Yea, we can't detect any gods. If we can't, you can't.
It is not like if we confess our faults, god will be faithful and just and will forgive us. Like he cares about exposing our hypocrisy and injustices. Yea right!
Skeptic Al
"We can't measure and use god, so he doesn't exist."
We don't need to measure God, all non-believers ask is to PROVE he exists. After thousands of years: zip, nada, nothing, zero, zilch. "Duh".
I know god can't exist because they haven't proven it. I make sure they prove something exists before I believe it.
Hail Satan, an pass me sum more abortion, please.
If only Obama was aborted, that would have saved the USA taxpayers (half of us) about 10 trillion $. Instead, we will be Greece soon. People screaming for govt benefits when there is no $ left.
His Mommie only had relationships with black Muslim men that left her. And most Americans wonder why Obama is such a communist progressive.
Don't mind me – I'm just a silly troll.
Joseph; I see that you still can't accept that your kind are in the minority. I recommend you attend a gay wedding.
@joseph.............I wish Bush was aborted. We wouldn't have invaded Iraq and the economy wouldn't have tanked.
Obama is probably still seeing Larry Sinclair.......when he visits the Chicago bath house scene, which is often.
@Ken Margo,
But wasn't it a Democrat congress that authorized Iraq?
Poor Joseph ... daddy's long dead and there's no one to help him lynch black people like they did when he was younger.
It's ok Joseph, in 2 years you get to start insulting President Clinton for 8 years.
Ho ho ho ... kinda gets your panties all in a bun now doesn't it?
What the article leaves out is the fact hat Obama is now leading the Church of Liberalism. Most americans can see that Obama is Satan's primary disciple.........
@ME II ............................Bush sold the war to the people. HE'S THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF. THE BUCK STOPS WITH HIM!
@ME II ............................Bush sold the war (BS) to the people. HE'S THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF. THE BUCK STOPS WITH HIM!
@Ken Margo,
Just checked, it was split, the House was Republican and the Senate was Democrat.
I'm not denying Bush's involvement/responsibility, but the Congress declares war, not the President. (True "war" was never declared, and "military action" may have happened without congress as it had with other Presidents of both parties.)
However, Democrats in Congress are not blameless either. There is a reason for the checks & balances.
I heard that Traybon's gf was recently hired by CNN. She will be one of the more articulate newspeople at the network.
@ME II..............Did some democrats vote for it. YES. (I believe Hillary was one) But bush is the man that sold it. He's the top dog. Don't make excuses for him. Colin Powell and Condolezza Rice made the argument for him at his request. I'm sure if Obama started the Iraq war, you wouldn't point out congress involvement. You would point at Obama only.