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July 27th, 2013
08:33 AM ET
Why millennials are leaving the church
(CNN) - At 32, I barely qualify as a millennial. I wrote my first essay with a pen and paper, but by the time I graduated from college, I owned a cell phone and used Google as a verb. I still remember the home phone numbers of my old high school friends, but don’t ask me to recite my husband’s without checking my contacts first. I own mix tapes that include selections from Nirvana and Pearl Jam, but I’ve never planned a trip without Travelocity. Despite having one foot in Generation X, I tend to identify most strongly with the attitudes and the ethos of the millennial generation, and because of this, I’m often asked to speak to my fellow evangelical leaders about why millennials are leaving the church. Armed with the latest surveys, along with personal testimonies from friends and readers, I explain how young adults perceive evangelical Christianity to be too political, too exclusive, old-fashioned, unconcerned with social justice and hostile to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people. I point to research that shows young evangelicals often feel they have to choose between their intellectual integrity and their faith, between science and Christianity, between compassion and holiness. I talk about how the evangelical obsession with sex can make Christian living seem like little more than sticking to a list of rules, and how millennials long for faith communities in which they are safe asking tough questions and wrestling with doubt. Invariably, after I’ve finished my presentation and opened the floor to questions, a pastor raises his hand and says, “So what you’re saying is we need hipper worship bands. …” And I proceed to bang my head against the podium. Time and again, the assumption among Christian leaders, and evangelical leaders in particular, is that the key to drawing twenty-somethings back to church is simply to make a few style updates - edgier music, more casual services, a coffee shop in the fellowship hall, a pastor who wears skinny jeans, an updated Web site that includes online giving. But here’s the thing: Having been advertised to our whole lives, we millennials have highly sensitive BS meters, and we’re not easily impressed with consumerism or performances. In fact, I would argue that church-as-performance is just one more thing driving us away from the church, and evangelicalism in particular. Many of us, myself included, are finding ourselves increasingly drawn to high church traditions - Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, the Episcopal Church, etc. - precisely because the ancient forms of liturgy seem so unpretentious, so unconcerned with being “cool,” and we find that refreshingly authentic. What millennials really want from the church is not a change in style but a change in substance. We want an end to the culture wars. We want a truce between science and faith. We want to be known for what we stand for, not what we are against. We want to ask questions that don’t have predetermined answers. We want churches that emphasize an allegiance to the kingdom of God over an allegiance to a single political party or a single nation. We want our LGBT friends to feel truly welcome in our faith communities. We want to be challenged to live lives of holiness, not only when it comes to sex, but also when it comes to living simply, caring for the poor and oppressed, pursuing reconciliation, engaging in creation care and becoming peacemakers. You can’t hand us a latte and then go about business as usual and expect us to stick around. We’re not leaving the church because we don’t find the cool factor there; we’re leaving the church because we don’t find Jesus there. Like every generation before ours and every generation after, deep down, we long for Jesus. Now these trends are obviously true not only for millennials but also for many folks from other generations. Whenever I write about this topic, I hear from forty-somethings and grandmothers, Generation Xers and retirees, who send me messages in all caps that read “ME TOO!” So I don’t want to portray the divide as wider than it is. But I would encourage church leaders eager to win millennials back to sit down and really talk with them about what they’re looking for and what they would like to contribute to a faith community. Their answers might surprise you. Rachel Held Evans is the author of "Evolving in Monkey Town" and "A Year of Biblical Womanhood." She blogs at rachelheldevans.com. The views expressed in this column belong to Rachel Held Evans. soundoff (9,864 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Opinion by Rachel Held Evans, Special to CNN
So, I am a Deist, who is a member of a Universal-Unitarian Fellowship. I prefer to listen to the quiet voice within, to being shouted at and ordered about.
Since millennials have a "high BS meter" and thus are not easily duped, then do they still buy into all of NASA's BS, or do they see right thru all of NASA's (and Soviet) spaceflight fakery?
http://www.fountainsofthegreatdeep.com/IFS.htm
Dear Duck Dodgers in the 241⁄2th Century:
You poor misguided fool. I worked at Johnson Space Center and I have seen the truth and your quoted web site is nothing but out and out quackery. This too many people involved in the NASA Space Program and in Space Programs around the world that if it wasn't tool would be talking about it. I have seen and touched rock that didn't come from the planet.
Dear George Double U,
Hmm, so you're telling me that a 'heat shield' that was made of "special plastic" (as NASA called it back in the day), which was nothing but epoxy smeared over a ss honey comb 'protected' the astros barreling into the upper atmosphere at hypersonic 5 miles/sec, or well over 30 times the velocity of a jumbo-jet and thru temperatures ***as quoted by NASA*** that are "10 times hotter than the surface of the sun", and then they 'braked' with only a parachute to a safe splashdown? These coordinated stunts were/are nothing but 'magic meteors' my friend dropped from cargo planes.....
As Hitler said, the bigger the lie, the more believable it is. And indeed NASA and the CCCP were formed by NAZI's. Sorry, no one has ever 'landed' on the moon inside that tin-can to collect 'breccia' in order to dupe the USGS.... Time to wake up to the reality of the 'astronaut corps' massive fraud.
Wow. Best to leave this nut alone.
Dear Duck Dodgers in the 24 1/2 Century,
If it wasn't for the heat shield, we could not have ICBM's as they rely on them to re-enter the earth's atmosphere... these do exist. Robert Goddard in 1920 was the first to describe what a heat shield was based upon observations of meteors and their core temperature however it took 31 more years for the heat shield to be developed by H. Julian Allen at the Ames Research Center. And it is the shape of the Apollo Space Craft that did more to shield the space craft from heat then anything else because the more drag you had on the craft the less heat build up around the craft.
Current there are around 18,000 people who work directly for NASA and thousands more that work for contractors. If the NSA can have one of it's employees expose one of their secrets... look up Edward Snowden then why has NASA not had one of its current employees do the same? So go peddle your conspiracy theory someplace else as that is all it is.... a bad... errr very bad conspiracy theory. Plus it really has nothing to do with why Millennials are leaving the church.
I hesitate to even respond to this madness, but I couldn't resist. What the hell are you talking about?
See my response above for further explanation. In a nutshell, NASA and the Soviets have been faking spaceflight from day one. Why? Answer – to promote "astro-evolution". This actually fulfills biblical prophecy as Apollo (i.e. Satan the liar) is their "king".
A church that is not honestly challenging the culture it finds itself in is not the church. The church is supposed to be a counter culture. We believe a man named Jesus is Lord and that He was raised from the dead, and that all are called to follow him. As the church we accept that call. And as a church we fellowship with those who accept that mutual calling. If people are leaving the church it isn't because the church isn't socially liberal enough, which is the essence of the summary of this article, it is because people aren't really interested in following Jesus Christ as Lord.
Umm, no, it's because your beliefs are B-S. If you want anyone to believe your schtick these days, you'd better have evidence to present, and you can be sure it will get exposed to a lot of examination. That's why your beliefs are getting tossed out -they should be; there's no modern evidence for them, and the old stuff isn't credible.
@Christstinks, you should listen to @Melanie. She's hit the nail on the head.
I couldn't agree more that a church should challenge culture. Churches should challenge cultures of consumerism, instead of telling their congregations that "God wants [them] to have the desires of [their] hearts" while ignoring issues of poverty and inequity in their very communities. Churches should challenge their congregations to love all people instead of judging them and making legislation that further judges them. Churches should work to be Christ-like. I never read of a Jesus who wanted people of any belief or any lifestyle to have unequal rights.
I would argue that we DO want to challenge culture, and we're just not seeing it happen. We see churches who pick one or two issues and prove they are challenging culture, while not living a life that shows people who we want to live like, and who we live for. It's sad, and almost embarrassing to identify as a Christian at times because of the simplicity of the issues big churches choose to "champion." So political, so disgusting, so unwilling to be uncomfortable.
"it is because people aren't really interested in following Jesus Christ as Lord"
It's all predicated on this sacrifice thing but think about it, a "god" recreates itself with the help of a woman. Now why would an all powerful ent.ity need a human to help reproduce itself? Then disappears for a while, comes back and is suddenly doing magic tricks, gets its rented flesh killed then poofs itself back to where it came from.
Yeah, some sacrifice.
James 4:4 ►
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
NO Christhinks- Even some atheists like myself have tremendous respect for Jesus Christ, even if we don't believe he was a supernatural being. The problem is not Christ, it is that SO MANY Christians prefer Old Testament hellfire and damnation BS to justify their own petty prejudices and conservative politics. Dwelling on the Old Testament when it suits them, and ignoring it when it doesn't. They won't hesitate to refer to Leviticus when it tells them that LGBT citizens are "abominations", but are pretty lax when it comes to eating pork or shellfish. They do NOT treat "the least of their brothers" as they would Christ himself. They rail against Christ's lesson that we care for the poor or the sick, because doing so might raise their taxes, or interfere with their "freedom" to help only those THEY find deserving or worthy. They believe that our planet is only six thousand years old, and that they will be "raptured" long before we damage our planet beyond repair. They want the political power and control to force others to live according to their personal standards, calling it "freedom".
The author of this report is absolutely correct, and you are not. Christianity is not in decline because of Christ or his teachings. It is being rejected because it is anti-science, anti-social, and overtly POLITICAL.
Nice article. I really like the open discussions about different topics. I think a lot of people at all ages are struggling right now to find their places in religion. Myself included. I try to live my life like a Christian, but have been turned off with churches for several years. I would like to get back into going on a regular basis, but want to find a place that is open minded and not politically slanted to one party. I think we should help those in need and see how Jesus would handle situations today. I hope this article stimulates some good open discussions about topics facing the world today.
There is Oz and then there is reality . How do you see your friends and family in heaven when their body stays buried here on earth ? We are but mammals on a planet and there is not a thing we can do about it as the human was here on earth long before our Religion or the story of Jesus or Muhamid . They both were only human mammals too .
Woody, don't put a space before every punctuation mark. It really makes you appear to be stupid. See if you can do better.
Here is what i think . I think that about the only conviction against Gay marriage comes from traditonal bible teaching homes. and all the tainted relitions that come to follow in the areas where people inbreed.
now, this author of this article is probabl reacting to the entire envelope that is pushed in america in favor of the gay agenda, and all the press that is forced into the media. is she not the media?
I didn't really pay attention to her becuase she seems immature from the last article she wrote, but my personal gut feeling is that she has problems, also, with blanket judgments on which ever sect of the church she is exploiting.
she is just a bit sold out, otherwise she would understand that there are 300 million different people and not a one goes to every church. every church is way different doesnt matter what denomination it is.
Topher, is that me?
Two things Austin:
1) The most common definition of Biblical marriage is polygamy.
2) Please show me exactly where in the Bible it states "a man shall not marry another man". Try NOT to cite scripture and then put your own spin on it. You can not just start adding words to scripture and then expect us all to think your analogy of it is what God really meant.
no it is nothing more than a varifiable negetive every time the subject comes up in the bible. it is commonly known as disreputable by the writers.
i do not want to get into pointing fingers at anyone, but i am saying that this has been central for this woman. i hate the conversation but i am not afraid to clarity the biblical tone on this subject, i would rather point the finger at my self I have a few vices i need to quit.
Oh I see Austin. Since you can't actually point out anywhere in the Bible it states two men can't marry you'll ignore that obvious fact but will continue to go on and on about how the Bible condemn gay marriage.
Do you have to wonder why the younger generation can see right through you???
Ok Austin I'll help you out a little,
Scripture without putting a spin on it, pure scripture, hmmm well that's easy.
Leviticus 20:13, just to name one of sooo many. "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
So without a spin, and perhaps if you haven't read this yet in your bible, it means that if you (a man) lie with another man, like you should a woman, then that is not acceptable and you will die after judgement in heaven...so if you think about this, if God is against a man lying next to another man, like he might a woman, this is NOT ACCEPTABLE, therefore marrying them won't go over so well either...but maybe the king james version didn't feel the need to fully explain this to people of the future, he figured the Hebrew text was well clear...
Be patient with non-believers Austin.
Austin....just as the article stated..."We want to be known for what we stand for, not what we are against." There will always be people, such as Michael, who are ready to challenge biblical context by changing the point. If Michael wants to believe that being gay is not a sin, but it is a part of God's plan, then let him stand on it. No one here on earth will be able to change his mind. There are many who look for the definitive, spelled out "man should not marry man" phrase in the bible. Although the bible doesn't say it, it is not a welcomed act by God Romans 1:24-27. With that said, Michael, there are a lot of acts and life styles we do and live out and in. But that does not mean the LGBT community is not loved by true Christ followers. Please re-read the article. I believe what Austin is saying that all of us must allow ourselves to be examined by Christ and move in the direction of loving Him, ourselves and others.
Amen TB, and regardless of how you interpret scriptures on the subject of sin, we have all sinned and if we say we have no sin, then we lie. Jesus saves sinners. Jesus is the righteous judge. If you are born again, you are forgiven, for your past sin, for your present sin, and for your future sin. This is not a license to sin. We love him and do our best to obey him because he loved us first. If you are saved and doing something you don’t think is sin, he will definitely let you know if it is sin.
Robert Brown, did you major in sinology?
You base this absurd opinion on one article? Do some research. She is much, MUCH closer to Jesus than you could ever hope to be.
She's evangelical. You're a poser.
Religious bigot.
I hope no one pays any attention to you, because you scream immaturity in every post you write.
Austin,
Since you don't support or believe all of God's warped rules about marriage, why should anyone listen to you when you use the Bible as an excuse to oppose gay marriage?
Observer,
Austin is not using the Bible as an excuse, rather helping to provide God's own words by using the Bible instead of his own voice...you're arguing with God not Austin...Good luck.
Jesus loves you.
Mike,
So are you HYPOCRITICALLY telling everyone to believe a book that you don't believe all of?
The classic aspect regarding this is the original text of the Bible doesn't condemn gay people. There's a abundance of verifiable facts on Google about it. The only person who wants to dispute this is the one who will not spend the 30 seconds Googling the topic and will keep quoting their modern translations.
Please show me proof the original text does not condemn gays. You cannot provide such proof....
JustTheFacts,
The Bible says that anyone divorcing and remarrying commits the Ten Commandment sin of ADULTERY (unless the previous spouse had already committed adultery). There are FAR FAR MORE Christians who are adulterers than there are total number of gays, but don't expect Christian HYPOCRITES to pick on their own.
You're not authorized to quote that you don't even believe in. So what you say don't mean a thing...
JustTheFacts,
lol. That's a good one. Just one more Christian who hates it when someone quotes the Bible and he can't just pick-and-choose what he likes.
Get real. Is the Bible such an unreliable source that it can't be trusted?
Observer… No, I don't hate it when someone quotes the bible, I just hate it when a devil and someone who doesn't even believe in God attempts to do it. Because you're of the devil, everything you say is defiled even if you do quote a scripture...
JustTheFacts,
The truth really hurts, doesn't it.
You can believe in the devil and hell that God created but I don't. Nice guy to do that.
Observer... Belief has nothing to do with it. Even the devils believe. But they're still the devil...
JustTheFacts
"Observer... Belief has nothing to do with it."
Nonsense. Belief has everything to do with it when you have ZERO proof that heaven or hell exists.
Observer... If you're too dumb to know heaven and hell exists, then you're too dumb for me to even be dealing with. Your parents should have taught you better...
No problem! Everything below is a verifiable fact:
1) The Leviticus scripture is part of the Holiness Code and not the Moral Code. The term translated to as with means bed every other time it's used in Leviticus and when Paul referred to that scripture when writing the clobber passage in Corinthians he rewrote bed.
Michael… Once again, that is your problem, you're relying on Google and Google is of the devil. There is no such thing as the Holiness Code or Moral Code. Such things are of the devil and is not of God. You can't quote that which is of the devil to disprove that which is of God…
What I am doing is providing verifiable facts.
How are you saying pointing out facts about the original text is the Devil's work??? How crazy are you?
You would rather just act like a sheep and chow down on whatever is fed to you by those from the pulpit. And you say I'm doing the Devil's work. Go take a look at the mirror. Ignorance is neither bliss nor divine.
Michael… And you're chowing down on everything "Google" is telling you, when I've already told you that Google is of the devil. So what part of that do you not understand? As a consequence, you don't have any "facts". All you have are lies and deceptions…
2) Sodom is about attempted gang ra pe.
Actually, the crime of Sodom was lack of hospitality, which the Bible makes clear later, just like the crime of Onan was disobeying Yahweh's command to get his brother's widow pregnant. People later changed the 'sin' to fit their own prejudices.
3) Paul states male bed and soft (as in morals or fabric) and did not use any Greek term which might have meant s e x between men.
4) Romans is a condemnation of Pagan idolatry, a sin so big it made it to the #2 and #3 spot of the Top Ten list. Both male, ie gay, and female, ie straight, temple rituals involving s e x are condemned in both the OT and NT.
Anything else?
She says this "We want our LGBT friends to feel truly welcome in our faith communities."
then she says this: "We want to be challenged to live lives of holiness"
/facepalm
Hey Georgie,
The original text of the Bible doesn't condemn gay people and, in fact, the text of the Bible has changed in order to fit the condemnation of the day.
A simple Google search proves it.
i doubt what you are saying based upon my old testament memory. they probably jive, Jesus being a jew and all.
Actually Austin, the OT doesn't condemn gay people either. Leviticus? It's part of the Holiness Code and NOT the Moral Code (you know, shrimp being an abomination, pork being one too, shaving also one, etc, etc). Also, the term translated to "as with" means "bed" every other time it's used in Leviticus. So what exactly does that tell you? Kind of hard to condemn gay people with a line that actually states "A man shall not lay with another man on a woman's bed", isn't it? Also Genesis is about attempted gang r a p e.
Anything else Austin?
Don't rely on your memory. "A simple Google search proves it."
Ah Lacey, don't quite realize what Google can provide, do you?
Do you know what a verifiable fact is?
it depends what you mean by condemn. no one was condemned by God for being Gay. it was the all out depravity of the city of Sodom. didn't say it was becuause they were gay. but then also there was a prophet who was chased into a house by gay demoniac or something and they wanted to defile him.
that is not a positive encounter for the an.al agenda .
Thank you, Austin, for bringing up Sodom.
Please explain to me how you're using a condemnation of gang rap e to condemn all gay people. Do you condemn all straight people too or do you think it's OK for a group of men to gang rap e a woman?
jibe, not jive
Actually, Michael, I was agreeing with you, and telling Austin not to rely on his memory and to take your suggestion, you patronizing dolt.
The bible has not changed. That is your problem, you're using Google. "Google" is of the devil....
I know! Actually relying on fact is the Devil's Work!!!
It actually has changed. The scripture used against gay people was condemning mastur bation instead less than 100 years ago.
Please, by all means, explain to me how that isn't a prime example of the text changing....
the bible has not changed?
Michael... The original scriptures of the bible has never changed. There are many translations of the bible on the market today. But most of those translations are of the devil. That was not God's doing, that was Lucifer's doing. Go back to the original scriptures and the original text and you'll see that nothing has changed...
oh......of the devil.....pretty scary for those who swallow that tripe
Exactly. The original text hasn't changed and it does NOT condemn gay people.
Why are you having such a hard time grasping this? I provided the primes example of Corinthians, which was condemning mastur bation instead less than 100 years ago, and you totally blew it off.
What does that tell you???
I don't think you are correct, both current trans and the dead sea stuff point to abusers of self in the greek as well. What text are you referring to???
Greek? You mean Corinthians? Where Paul stated "male bed" and "soft" (as in morals) and did NOT use any Greek term which might have conveyed se x between men? Or Romans, where it's a condemnation of Pagan idolatry which involved both straight and gay ritual prosti tution?
Or Leviticus where I've just explained the Hebrew or maybe the aspect of how NO Hebrew term could mean "as with" since that's not how that language works?
Oops, sorry Lacey! The whole quote unquote thing led me to believe you thought I was full of it.
Forgive!
@George Babbitt,
Precisely ! She and others are coping out and looking for a faith that fits their dogma or agenda. It's time immortal. Every generations try's to find a faith that fits their life style.
She's always been a milk toast Christian. She mentions her age at 32, and try's to sound like she has lived.
That's fine but her argument still stands.
@bhp,
But holds no credence except that warm fuzzy feeling that try's to reinvent a God.
The bible condemns sodomites, who would be that klansman sitting in the next pew.
The Fear You Will Feel on Judgment Day…
The bible states many are called but few are chosen. Meaning, many are called to the ministry but few are chosen by God to be his sent preachers. My pastor was a true sent preacher. And one of the benefits of being a sent preacher is that once you first become sent, the eternal God will take you and actually show you the lake of fire and brimstone. He does this for two reasons: 1) to let you know where you're going and what will happen to you if you screw up and don't deal with the ministry right. 2) to allow the sent preacher to see the place he is saving souls from going. Once a sent preacher has seen that horrible place, he will then do everything he can to prevent souls from going there.
My pastor has seen both the lake and seen Judgment Day. He says that on Judgment Day there will be so much "fear". He says that the people who will be standing before God (by the billions) will be so afraid and so terrified until their very skin will turn "black" with fear. Meaning, even if you're a white person or someone with light skin, on that day, you will look like a black person because all the color and brightness will drain from your skin. That is how afraid you will be.
Right now, from a position of ease, there are atheists who boast and speak great swelling words and say they are not afraid. But on Judgment Day you will be. On Judgment Day, not only will every atheist be sorry for the worthless person they are, but they will regret they were ever born. They will wish that their parents had aborted the fetus. It would have been better. Better to never have been born, better to never have existed, than to fall into the hands of the living God…
Hebrews 10:31 – It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
There is also another scripture in the bible which supports this in the book of Joel. The scripture refers to the time when Jesus will return with his army (the saints of God) to destroy the earth. Our job is to kill every living thing upon it. The scripture states that on that day "a fire shall go before us and that flames will be burning behind us", and that "nothing shall escape us" – (Joel 2:3). That we shall "run like horses, and like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall we leap, a strong people set in battle array" – (Joel 2:5). It states that before us "the face of the people shall be much pained" (the people who see us coming) and that "all faces shall gather blackness" – (Joel 2:6). That we shall "run like mighty men and shall climb the wall like men of war". That we shall "march and not break our ranks" – (Joel 2:7). That if we fall on our sword we shall not be wounded (because we'll have our eternal bodies on and cannot be killed. Meaning, even if they drop an atomic bomb on us, we'll keep on coming). – (Joel 2:8). That we shall "climb upon the houses and shall enter in at the windows like a thief" – (Joel 2:9). That "the earth shall quake before us (massive earthquakes) and that the heavens shall tremble, and the sun and moon will be dark and even the stars won't shine" – (Joel 2:10). Lastly…
Joel 2:11 – And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great; for he is strong that executeth his word. for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?…
The above is not a threat. It is a fact. Behold, the day of the LORD cometh. Who can abide it?…
Hey, it's another "If you don't believe exactly what I believe and hate exactly what I hate then you're going to burn forever!!!"
Yeah, more threats from the nasty Christian sky fairy. What a surprise.
"Real Wisdom"
"every atheist be sorry for the worthless person they are"
Skip your world-class HYPOCRISY. If you bothered to read the Bible you'd know not to judge others. Grow up.
You're not authorized to quote that you don't even believe in. So what you say don't mean a thing...
JustTheFacts,
lol. That's a good one. Just one more Christian who hates it when someone quotes the Bible and he can't just pick-and-choose what he likes.
Get real. Is the Bible such an unreliable source that it can't be trusted?
he can point out hypocrisy, JTF....
If this is "truth," then I (and most others) don't want this truth.
A god that makes his followers tremble with fear is not a loving god. A god that is not a loving god is not worth worshipping. Had I been in a concentration camp, I would have certainly feared the guards, but never would I have worshipped them. Ever.
You don't even know what "love' is. All you know is lust. And you can't even control that. People like you act like God somehow "needs" you to worship him. You're delusional. The eternal God already has billions of angels upstairs who are already worshipping him and are doing a much better job of it than you could ever do. So God don't need you. It is you who need God. You're utterly worthless to him. If you're too high-minded and too self-conceited to come down off your high mental horse and to realize that it is you who need God, then you can continue quietly on to hell. And no one will miss you...
I do know what love is. I've been fortunate to not only be loved, but to know what it is love someone else. I also know what lust is. If you have any children, I certainly hope you know what lust is too, or otherwise, how boring.
I don't believe god needs me to love him/her/it, just like I don't believe a unicorn needs me to love him/her/it. That's great that god has billions of angels that love him. It's also great that the New York Yankees have millions of fans, but I'm not really a sports guy, so their fanhood means nothing to me, or to them, and not only do I get by just fine not following sports, but I know that being a sports fan would actually make me less happy.
As far as hell, some of the aforementioned people that love me, who in your skewed perception, of, I'm guessing everything, would likely qualify as heaven bound. With me in hell, and because they love me, their heaven would be a little less heavenly; which calls into question just how heavenly heaven could be when one of those billions of angels loves someone who is in hell simply because they learned what love was on their earthly adventure.
In other words, a god that instills fear, rather than love is not worth worshipping because even my hell bound soul should be of exponential value to god, despite the fact my soul is just one of billions.
Also, tell Fred Phelps hi.
David... You are deceived. What you call love is nothing more than lust. For God is love. Without God, you don't have love. You don't have God. So you have no clue what love is…
David… No one who is of God loves someone who is of the devil. We all hate evil. So if you're in hell, rest assured, no one in heaven will miss you, not even if they are former family members. LOL…
JustTheFacts
"For God is love. Without God, you don't have love. You don't have God. So you have no clue what love is…"
Nope. It obviously is YOU who is clueless. Your delusional nonsense is claiming that all the inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere never experienced love until explorers told them about God.
lol. lol.
Observer… Just more atheist nonsense that don't mean a thing. Even worse, I wasn't even talking to you...
Why is it that people with screen names like "Real Wisdom" generally quote the words of others and call them true without actually providing proof that they are true? The name he/she should more accurately use is "Real Opinion".
I did not read your comment "Real Wisdom." When you are pretentious enough to call yourself "Real Wisdom," I automatically dismiss you as a spurious, self-satisfied, know-it-all, religious egoist. I'm pretty Jesus taught humility. You should start completely over. If your name was "Real Humility" or "Genuine Attempt to be Meek Like Jesus," I would have read you verbose comment.
Yet, you're too "proud" and too "self-righteous" to read the post. Wow. So what's that saying? LOL...
there is no judgement day
fvck you and your imaginary sky pr1ck
"We want people to know what we stand for, not what we are against" In a nut shell. Thank you.
The Holy Spirit is a sanctifying spirit that bears the truth of God's word on a persons heart.
John 15:26-27
26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
Now the Festival of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching, and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some way to get rid of Jesus, for they were afraid of the people.Then Satan entered Judas,
And Judas conceived and gave birth to a son.
oops wrong gender.
A daughter, then.
there we are I understand that.
Surely if it was god's plan, then Judas was on god's side.
" We’re not leaving the church because we don’t find the cool factor there; we’re leaving the church because we don’t find Jesus there."
Yes
Yes, Yes! I am in very churched town and moved here over 16 months ago, still have yet to find a good church ;( Thankfully there are good sermons to be found online. 🙂
It's all part of a bigger picture: religion is waning in the civilized world; increasingly seen as fairy-tale nonsense. Meanwhile, religion becomes increasingly reactionary & fanatical in response, which drives away intelligent people even quicker. In terms of a global picture, the EU is even further along than the US by 20 or 30 years, where you wont find a single advanced northern European nation that would for ANYONE that goes on about "God" (unlike the US, which seems to require it during elections)...you'd get laughed off the election circuit.
"We want a truce between science and faith." Anyone who believes there can be a truce between science and faith doesn't understand science. The success of science is founded on the principle that the laws of nature do not change with either time or place. They are always true, everywhere. The more science succeeds in helping us understand ourselves and our universe, the less room there is for faith or a god who can come in and jigger with nature in the form of miracles.
The physical universe is a subset of the spiritual universe. Physical laws do not apply to the spiritual nor can they explain it.
They are both subsets of reality, neither one having to do with the other.
Actually, the "spiritual" universe has nothign to do with reality.
The mere existence makes it part of reality, but just because it exists does not make it true.
If you want to postulate the existence of something that can't be observed and does not interact with the physical universe, go ahead. But that's not what christianity does. It postulates a deity that meddles in the affairs of humans, talks to people, changes the outcome of various events, and creates humans through immaculate conception. All those things are physical and entirely inconsistent with the success of science. If you want to believe that mumbo jumbo, go ahead. But if you want to be consistent, please stop using all the devices and technology that has been created from a scientific method that is entirely inconsistent with faith.
I disagree with your statement. You say science is about the unchanging laws of nature. Hundreds of years ago "science" declared the the earth was flat. Science also declared that the earth was the center of the universe. 50 years ago science told every school child that there were nine planets in our solar system but now there are eight. Science is simply our understanding of how things work. When our understanding changes, so does " science".
You clearly don't understand science. Science is not a fact or a set of facts, it is a self correcting method for getting to the truth. It's a method that rejects faith and relies on confirmation to ensure that a self consistent description of nature can be established. In as much as science succeeds, religion fails. Your understanding of the history of science is pretty far off too.
"It's a method that rejects faith and relies on confirmation to ensure that a self consistent description of nature can be established."
Science is an abstract concept. It can't reject or confirm anything. Scientists can reject or confirm something but science itself cannot.
I was at the beach today with my grandsons. The 7 year old said the sound of the sea one hears in shells is the magnified sound of the blood in our ears. He told me his science teacher taught him that. I asked if he believed her he Sid he did in matters of science. To bad because she is wrong. At least half the stuff silence pushes is wrong. May be the same with religion, ont know.
"Half the stuff that science pushes is wrong?" Put your computer down and crawl back into a cave. Do you have any idea how many products of science you rely on on a daily basis? Airplanes fly, your phone works, your GPS tells you where you are, you go to the doctor and get X-rays, MRI's, CT scans, etc, etc... and all you can say is that "half the stuff science pushes is wrong." You sir have no clue at the real wonders around you. Is that the sea you hear when your head is stuck in the sand or the echo of the blood pumping in your ears?
This is a very accurate article.
Become atheists then you can think for yourself.
But you have to think for yourself before you can become an atheist. That's the problem the religies have. It's catch 22 for them.
the authentic ministry of the Holy Spirit is what converted killer Saul............Paul.
and last night when i was at church 2 more ladies went down at the end of service to pray for faith in Christ with the prayer team, and they baptised a whole bunch of people last weekend, in the nineties.
670 people last year came to faith in Christ.
I am astonished..There are people who's hearts have been prepared, by the dozens.
the harvest is now. and the Lord pours out His spirit. That is powerful.
Supernatural!
Athy, maybe you should can that "religies" thang... it makes you sound like lol?? and his/her "socies".