 |
|
|
|
|
July 29th, 2013
08:48 AM ET
Pope Francis on gays: 'Who am I to judge?'By John L. Allen Jr. and Hada Messia, CNN Aboard the Papal Airplane (CNN) - Pope Francis said Monday that he will not "judge" gays and lesbians, including gay priests, signaling a shift from his predecessor and offering another sign that the new pope is committed to changing the church's approach to historically marginalized groups. “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Francis said in a wide-ranging news conference aboard the papal plane. Though he was answering a question about the so-called "gay lobby" at the Vatican, the pope indicated a change in tone, if not in teaching, in the church's stance towards gays and lesbians more generally. The pope was flying back to Rome from Brazil, where he spent the past week celebrating World Youth Day, an international Catholic event that drew millions. Taking questions from reporters aboard the plane, the pope addressed nearly every hot-button issue facing the Roman Catholic Church: its alleged "gay lobby," Vatican bank corruption, the role of women, abortion, homosexuality and his own personal security. But it was the pope's remarks on homosexuality - the fact that the head of a 1 billion-member church said that it's not his place to judge gays - that caused the widest stir. "Pope Francis's brief comment on gays reveals great mercy," said the Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest and editor at America, a Catholic magazine based in New York. "Today Pope Francis has, once again, lived out the Gospel message of compassion for everyone," Martin said. The pontiff spoke for an hour and a half in the back of the plane that was carrying him back to Italy after his first international trip as pope to Brazil, where he was greeted by massive, frenzied crowds at every turn. "I'm happy. It has been a beautiful trip, spiritually speaking; it has been good to me. I'm tired enough but with a heart full of joy," he said. Here are the highlights from his press conference. On the 'gay lobby' and homosexuality The pope addressed the issue of an alleged "gay lobby" within the church. Hints that the Holy See contained a network of gay clergy surfaced last year in reports about a series of embarrassing leaks to Italian journalists. The "Vatileaks" scandal factored in Benedict's shocking decision to resign this year, according to some church experts, as it impressed upon the 86-year-old pontiff that the modern papacy requires a vigorous and watchful presence. "There's a lot of talk about the gay lobby, but I've never seen it on the Vatican ID card!" Francis said. "When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them? They shouldn't be marginalized. The tendency (to homosexuality) is not the problem ... they're our brothers." The problem, he said was, lobbies that work against the interest of the church. In 2005, during the papacy of Pope Benedict XVI, the Vatican issued directives barring from the priesthood men "who are actively homosexual, have deep-seated homosexual tendencies, or support the so-called 'gay culture.'" Francis' brief remarks seem to signal a sharp shift from that policy. On women The pope also spoke out about the role of women in the church, saying it needs to be deeper and not end. But he brushed aside the possibility of ordaining women as priests, saying the church had spoken on the matter: "The church says no. That door is closed." He did say that more work needed to be done theologically on the role of women in the church. On abortion Pope watchers have noted that Francis said little to nothing about abortion on his trip to Brazil. Abortion is illegal in Brazil, except for cases in which the health of the mother is at risk. Laws were recently changed to allow abortions in cases in which the child would be born with certain life-threatening birth defects. The pope said he had nothing to say on the trip about abortion because the church teachings against it were clear and this trip was the time for "positive" news. On divorce "I believe this is a time of mercy, a change of epoch," the pope said when asked about divorce. He said the group of eight cardinals tasked with reform will explore the issue of whether divorcees can receive Communion, which they are currently barred from doing. On the Vatican Bank The pope conceded he was unsure what to do with the Vatican Bank, which is known by its acronym IOR. "Some say that it would be better if it were a bank, others say that it should be a foundation. Other say to shut it down. These are the suggestions going around. I don't know. I trust the commission's members that are working on the IOR. But I wouldn't be able to tell you how this story is going to end." And as for what was in the black leather bag he carried onto the plane? A razor, a prayer book, a diary and a book about St. Theresa, but, the pope joked, "Certainly not the keys to the atomic bomb!" He said he carried his own bags because, "It's normal, we have to be normal. We have to be accustomed to being normal." CNN's Eric Marrapodi and Daniel Burke contributed to this report. soundoff (3,302 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 Next »
Next entry »Pope on gays: A shift in tone, not substance
« Previous entryPope to Mass of millions: Get out of church
|
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
|
|
|
Most Catholics seem to be fat and rude because they don't care about this world. Only the next world, which is imaginary which makes them look pretty foolish, tee hee
Memo to Pope: The Catholic Church is the largest, wealthiest and most powerful political lobby the world has ever know. And tax exempt too! Get over yourself.
And the most corrupt, bias, and uneducated as well for the extremists.
Yep. Wags his finger at others about the poor when he gladly takes what little money they have as "donations" and jets around in his "Papal Plane" from palace to palace filled with priceless art, gold, silver and jewels.
Hate the sin, not the sinner.
Who do you think you are, the Pope?!
Hate is bad and sin doesn't exist.
And when God was ask who was He to judge Pope Francis for blaspheming against God
God said…Pope Who?...he will not be the first or the last to go where Sodom has trod !!!
i went where sodom has trod last night with my fiance. lots of lube is the secret....
Garsh! A whole lot of anger and hatred from a lot of little people out there. You liked the Pope until he actually showed compassion? Now that you can't hate gays, you hate the pope? Go back to mexico.
I always get a laugh out of reading all the anti religion people's comments. You people condemn Christians yet you exhibit worse behavior than the people you are chastising. HYPOCRITES
What behaviour are you talking about?
and i always think it's funny when bigots cry about being called out on their s.h.i.t. christians are the ones with a rule book that says g.ays are to be put to death. so non-believers call them on their prejudicial view and somehow the non-believers are hypocrites? you don't make any sense.
I apologize for my behavior on this post. I realize my anti Christian rants are not productive or positive. I have had an addiction to being an idiot for years now, it is a hard habit to break.
I'm glad that there are people who exhibit "worse" behavior than Christians .. that's usually are hard thing to find. Good thing you get a laugh out of it though.
So, the old saying... "pot calling the kettle black". Tell me... which was black first?
I am a jerk.
Enjoy your laugh.. but he who laughs last, laughs best.
It's a huge step forward for the Catholic Church.
None of my comments are posting!!!!!
it's CNN's terrible profanity filter.
for instance, if you want to use the word 'inst.itution" you have to put a period in there (or whatever) to break up the part of the word that says 't.it".
Or it could be the foul odor I emit causing problems..
institution, tit. Hm.
Pope Francis, I think you just made a blooper saying such thing that many who believe in religion will just not follow you anymore for teaching wrong and as being a pope that world looks upon you for faith, people come to you because pope is to teach faith, but not sin.
What did he "teach" wrong? Are you implying that judging others is perfectly acceptable, Christ-like behavior?
Exactly what I am talking about, and didn't I mention religion earlier?
"Right is right if nobody is right, wrong is wrong if everybody is wrong", somber words from Bishop Fulton J. Sheen. When questioned why the church doesn't change for the time his answer was, "If the Church changed with the times, it would perish with the times". This Church no longer represents faithful Catholics, only the mad, modern masses who adhere to the "do your own thing" crowd. That's not the Catholic Church.
Are you a female? If so you are going against the bible.
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."
Stop voicing your opinion because yours doesnt count according to the bible. Or you know you could join modern society where we fight for equal rights for everyoine
Lainie, take a deep breathe, listen to what the pope is actually saying. Compare it to the catechism. The say a novena for his intentions.
It's breath, not breathe.
"Who am I to judge" ... and now, here's my judgment...
What a hypocrite. Seems like a requirement for the pope job.
What will ever appease you gay right advocates? He is preaching tolerance, yet your are never satisfied. Gays will always be sinners in the eyes of God, but that does not mean they can't seek repentance and acceptance/love from others.
lol mark. he's teaching tolerance... but they will always be sinners. see the b.u.l.l.s.h.i.t in that? he's tolerant but says they will all burn in hell.
He never said those words at all. You can't make a valid argument if you are simply making things up. We are all sinners, but we can all achieve eternal life with God.
Speakinng of "making things up", well, that'd be much of the Catholic storyline. The god parts, anyway.
mark... he doesn't need to say it. it's christian/catholic dogma. being g.ay, according to the bible, is wrong. it is "abomination" (lev 20:13) and worthy of a trip to hell. btw, you point out he didn't say they go to hell - he also didn't say they're "normal", that there's nothing wrong with being g.ay and g.ays should be fully accepted by the church, that they can be priests, that g.ays should be allowed to marry, that g.ays go to heaven. don't give him credit where it's not due.
Mark, your wife was also never satisfied. Until she met me.
You Catholics have such trouble with sex, and such inhibition. Do try to catch up with the times, or at least with 50 years ago.
Right, so according to Mr. Pope atheists will go to heaven by just doing good, and as head of the Roman Catholic Church he is not to judge an act that his God has called "sin". I guess if you are a Roman Catholic you can just toss your Bible as a relic of the past, of course most catholics leave the Bible reading to the priests anyway.
It's just the Pope not Mr.Pope stop being an ignoramus.
Huh???
The bible also says you can keep slaves.
It says things like "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."
"This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' "
"Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us / He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks."
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel."
As a cradle Catholic opposed to the changes of Vatican II, I vehemently voice, THIS GUY IS NOT A CATHOLIC. Born in 1939, Catholics such as myself are totally ashamed of the blasphemous statements and beliefs of Francis.
Please post my comment, CNN.
Wow Lainie, your church sure does have a lot of names, politics and hatred. Seems to me that you are a really sad person. Why don't you go join the Greek or Russian Orthodox church if you need to be controlled so badly?
I enjoy life to the fullest within the guidelines of the true Faith. And by the way, some consider me the life of the party.
The true faith according to Lannie.
ROFL!!!
That musta been a very dull party...
It's amusing that someone thinks they know better than the Pope about Catholicism.
Lainie11, repeat after me,
"There are No True Scotsmen. The only true Scotsmen wear pink kilts over their spandex jockstraps in the shower."
You idiot.
Lainie, the human race is ashamed to have you as a member.
Or perhaps you could start your own religion. We could call them Lanniets. Then you can believe anything you want.
Worked for the founders of all the other religions.
Maybe you can join Rick Santorum and start a new church? The Southern Baptist Church is in dire need of members to stay open in many cities!
Great idea. Call it Santorum-ism. -the worship of "the frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the byproduct of anal sex"
Right you are! I know all about booty funk! I am the gay lone star TexInd!
Since it is uncatholic to say a professed Catholic that they are not Catholic, doesn't that mean that you yourself are not Catholic as well?
There is one thing I always find curious concerning the Christian faith. The Bible is considered the "Word of God", and yet how many words in the Bible did God actually write himself? Going even further, God's only son Jesus spent 32 years on this planet, most often preaching about the God's will, and yet how many words in the Bible were written by Jesus? Could Jesus not write? Could God not create words on paper? Did neither of them have the time? Did neither of them feel it necessary?
Every single word in the Bible was written by a human. Not one word written by Jesus or by God himself. And yet it is called the "Word of God". Seems rather ironic to me. In addition to being overtly convenient.
Your ignorance is appalling.
No...yeaok...YOUR ignorance is appalling. What part of the bible DID I or my son Jesus EVERY write?
Ok, then set me straight. Name the books that Jesus wrote. Name the books that God wrote. Name one word in the Bible that God or Jesus actually wrote.
Actually it's your ignorance that is appalling if you didn't know that the BuyBull was written and created by bronze age tribesman. Want to recant your statement?
Jesus was not a scribe for the Bible, his followers were and they were guided by the Holy Spirit in their words. When we quote someone, it does not make their words and meaning irrelevant just because they did not write it themselves, does it?
Who is the holy sprit? Is that a ghost or something, or is it another god and if it's another god, does that mean that Catholics are polytheistic? How do you know the holy spirit exists? Because the book that men wrote told you so?
I will lead your ignorant remark towards the Bible. Read it and it may enlighten you, or at least answer some of your questions regardless of your beliefs.
Mark, I've read the bible. I was a missionary. Will you please answer my questions? Who EXACTLY is the holy spirit and if you have God, Jesus and the holy spirit and Mary and all those saints, doesn't that mean you're polytheistic?
I love it when someone asks a question about the validity of the Christian Story Book, they get ticked off. It's like they know it's all complete hokum but don't want to admit it.
How do you know heat exists? Did you read it in a book or did you experience it yourself? Or both? In my case, regarding the Holy Spirit, I utilize the same answer; both. That is, at least, how I know the Holy Spirit exists. As for the polytheist argument, Catholics are in fact monotheistic. There are three forms of God however; Father, Son & Holy Spirit. Take your pick over who to pray to because it all goes to the same place. As for saints and Mary, there is no worship of them. There is only praying to and other religious activities that include these individuals, but no worship. All worship goes to the one God.
@lancelinton: you have come across the main difference between science and faith. With science, in order for a claim to become accepted, it must bridge the gap between hypothesis and theory, and even then it must withstand further evidence and scrutiny in order to remain theory. Therefore, the hypothesis must be repeatable and witnessed by more than one person. Heat can be proven because the physical effects of heat are repeatable. The effects of the Holy Spirit, on the other hand, is only witnessed by a single person at a time and are not repeatable on demand. Therefore, the existence of the Holy Spirit cannot be proven by scientific method. Hence, why the existence of the Holy Spirit requires "faith".
were they guided by God when they said the following?
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."
"This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' "
"Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us / He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks."
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel."
Those were precepts of the law in those days. Irrelevant to my post.
Sorry, but that is completely relevant to your comment. If one man can claim that he is transcribing the words of God directly at God's direction, then why the shift in religious law? Why would God prescribe a law that only applies to that time and place? Doesn't God ascend time and physics? Why would he tell one person one thing and tell someone else something else? How are we to follow a law that is subjective and up to interpretation?
Mary Magdalene was not a harlot,
she was a disciple.
The church cant have that.
That would put woman on an equal footing with men.
The Catholic church is a mens club.
MArk I would bet a million dollars(if I had it!) that you have never read the entire BuyBull. If you had, you would not be a theist.
The Bible says that it was recorded by men who were "inspired" by God. Therefore, it may rightly and logically be called the word of God. If a secretary records the words of her boss it would still be considered the word of the boss NOT the secretary. This is not a difficult concept.
It would not be a difficult concept except for one little issue. When a secretary transcribes the words of her boss, there must be proof that that boss actually exists. Her boss must either sign off on the work, or testify as to it's authenticity. Otherwise, there will be some skepticism as to whether or not those are actually the words of her "boss" or her own words.
Awesome. I wish I could fing the "like" button. Where is the "like" button!?! 🙂
PLease prove god exists. If you cannot, please prove that Zues and Apollo do NOT exist and then we will use your method to prove your god does not exist. Up for the challenge? Or will you take the cowardly way out?
Just look at how well thought out the laws of the universe are. Now, who put them there? It was not you, it was not me... Chance?... then why are there not any other new laws popping up by chance every once in a while? Come to grips with the reality that the universe and nature are precisely designed with a balance and symbiotic relationship in mind, and you will then be able to at least entertain the thought that there is a Designer behind it all.
Geximus...you offered your opinion. that's all. No proof
Your argument is not valid. Merely saying that there is no explanation other than God does not prove God's existence. Myself, I am open to the chance that a higher power (or powers) created everything we know to be reality. However, I am also open to the possibility that everything we know to be reality happened some other way. I don't know. In fact, neither do you. Hence, what you call "faith". As the word implies, it requires a lack of knowledge. Otherwise, you wouldn't need to say you "believe" in God.
In case you didn't figure it out, my response was to Geximus, not A Dose.
@gex
Well thought out? What's with all the left over stuff that can pose a serious threat to any planet that may harbor life? What's with the possibility of solar flares doing serious damage to this planet?
If you think a designer had something to do with nature and you want us to be like that, you are in for one hell of a ride. I'd arm yourself now because nature most definitely adheres to survival of the fittest.
Religious people need to understand that if there is nothing measurable to verify a claim, then that claim must be taken on faith, and you can use faith for any claim at all.
'Just look at how well thought out the laws of the universe are. Now, who put them there? It was not you, it was not me... Chance?... then why are there not any other new laws popping up by chance every once in a while?'
You are kidding me with that post right? Why are there no new laws popping up by chance? seriously?
And You know those 'laws' are actually describing how the universe around us operates right? If something reacted differently in this universe then our laws would also be different to describe that situation.
I apologize for all the people who sit there and call you ignorant. You ask a valid questions and the bible says that we, as Christians are obligated to present a sound answer to such questions... not hurl insults at the people asking. Now, to your question... God did more than write down his word. He walked with man, Adam and Eve... But then man fell. Still, God spoke to man through signs and wonders, and through his prophets. I considers His miracles to be "the writing" you are asking him to do. He parted the red sea, he defeated invading armies miraculously, he wrote the 10 commandments in stone, he liberated israel, he put on human form, died and rose again. Now he lives in us by His Holy Spirit. That is a pretty engaged God who did not write directly, true, but still made sure His will was expressed and recorded. Now, whether you believe that to be hogwash or you have the kind of faith it takes to take God at his word, that is a different story and a personal decision. I for myself believe Him and in Him, and I'm not sorry. I see his work in my life. That said, that is me... you need to chose for yourself whether you believe or not. The only thing I ask is that you don't bash me for believing, just like I would never bash you for not believing.
"he wrote the 10 commandments in stone"
That is the only part of your comment that is relevant to my question.
Here is the catch. We do not have the ten commandments in stone as originally written, and therefore that writing is not part of the Bible. Those words were transcribed onto paper from somebody who witnessed the writing on stone. Therefore, those words on paper in the Bible still were not written by God himself. If God can write on stone, he can just as easily write on paper, can He not?
First there was Adam & Lilith.
Lilith would not lay down with Adam and be submissive.
She was written out of the bible and replaced by Eve.
Ah Eve.
She is now the fall woman for what happened in the garden.
Adam ate from the apple too, but everybody blames Eve,
How convenient.
Bravo Sharphace. The bible was written by men some 100+ years (New Testament) after the death of JC. Imagine today that someone said "Hey, remember that guy who did those amazing things? We should write a book about it and claim it as fact". I love arguing with Christians.
I am an atheist, but I must say, I'm really starting to like this pope. He's pushing for a simpler approach to lifestyle, working towards helping the poor, and moving the church in a more liberal/modern direction (I don't mean liberal in the political sense). I'm glad to see he knows we're not in the 12th century anymore, and that this world is changing.
yeah, he's living more like the 18th century. a few more and he'll be caught up.
Sometimes you have to look backwards in order to move forwards. Jesus died nearly 2,000 years ago. Do you not pay attention to what he said because he "is not caught up" on modern times?
do you pay attention to what jesus said? he said to beat disobedient slaves "with many stripes."
modern ethics > biblical morals
I'm an atheist as well and I concur with you. I'm starting to like this guy.
Not surprised – most gays are either atheist or become one after they decide to remain gay and to disregard the bibles teachings. The Pope is a commentator. Jesus walked among us and judged and corrected what was wrong. If the Pope is not interested in doing the same – then what is his purpose or agenda. Jesus was not here to appease to the people and the Pope shouldn't either. Makes one wonder his agenda. Regardless – no matter how common a sin is, it will never be right. If the Pope won't judge gayness, then they'd be best to judge themselves to make sure they are right with God. To get a clue – read your bible, not listen to commentators.
Dumbass.
As a cradle Catholic opposed to the changes of Vatican II, I vehemently voice, THIS GUY IS NOT A CATHOLIC. Born in 1939, Catholics such as myself are totally ashamed of the blasphemous statements and beliefs of Francis.
that's okay, other members of the human race are ashamed of the catholic church with or without fancis.
catholic church = champions of child molestation
This post means you are not catholic. You are just a delusional traitor to your own religion.
Good to see you can't adjust to the modern world..enjoy being left behind clown
and the rest of the world is ashamed of you and your bigoted ways.
Ironically your comment about the Pope would be viewed as blasphemy by many – definition: irreverent behavior toward anything held sacred, priceless, etc
Yes, many elderly people think the way you do. It's a passing phase that won't last much longer.
Take thy meds Lainie and bathe in the waters of calmness. Then, get a life.
Who are you to judge, the leader of the Catholic Church would be the answer.
Thank God people with common sense are on here. "Who Am I to judge?" You're the leader of the largest corrupt church in the world that lines its pockets by targeting the weakest. Religion truly is the opium of the masses. The pope is just changing the flavor.
HOLY CRAP...religion is such a joke. Today it's a sin and you will go to hell, but if the pope and the cardinals change their minds it is no longer a sin. It really is very funny. Religion was created to keep people in line. It's just a different type of government. It is called 'faith' because it can't be proved....you just have to be a blind follower and believe what others tell you.
Yes man, you got it perfectly, americans now know what happens with lack of religion...
Why don't we look at egypt and compare now shall we?
One interesting thing to note. Christians are not directed by the word to judge those outside the church. They are however called upon to judge actions by those who claim to be Christian and are in the Church. This can include excommunication (but not like the Catholics) as a means to shame them to bring them to repentance. Regarding those outside the church, believers are simply called upon to tell the truth.
HOLY CRAP...religion is such a joke. Today it's a sin and you will go to hell, but if the pope and the cardinals change their minds it is no longer a sin. It really is very funny. Religion was created to keep people in line. It's just a different type of government. It is called 'faith' because it can't be proved....you just have to be a blind follower and believe what others tell you.
the bible directs christians to kill non-believers. don't call that judgement? or is that just carrying out the execution sentence?
Please show me where in the New Testament it says to kill non Christians. You can't thought can you? You are just another hater who thinks he knows the bible but in reality you no very little. Keep on stirring the pot trouble maker...
For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.
dogs and cats living together. mass hysteria!
LOL!