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 Cardinal Timothy Dolan in Rome before the conclave in Rome that elected Pope Francis.
July 31st, 2013
05:53 PM ET
Bishop: Pope was 'on a high' during gay remarksBy Daniel Burke, CNN (CNN) - The nation's leading Roman Catholic archbishop said Wednesday that Pope Francis was "on a high" from his first international trip as pontiff when he said "Who am I to judge?" gays and lesbians. Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York, who traveled last week to Brazil with the pope for World Youth Day, said the massive turnout - estimates ran as high as 3 million - and ecstatic crowds likely gave Francis hope that he would "revive the church on his home continent of Latin America." Francis was the archbishop of Buenos Aires in Argentina from 1998 until his papal election in March. "The pope was visibly `on a high' from his first international pastoral visit in Rio," Dolan said. "Understandably so. Because I was there with him, I can verify that the superlatives being used — `oceanic' crowds, `frenzied' welcomes, `inspirational, heartfelt' words — are not exaggerations at all." On the plane from Brazil back to Rome on Monday, the pope gave an 80-minute press conference in which he addressed a number of controversial issues for the Catholic Church, including homosexuality, the ordination of women and scandals involving a so-called "gay lobby" at the Vatican. Regarding gay priests, Francis said, “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” READ MORE: Pope Francis on gays: `Who am I to judge?' The remarks were read by some as a rejection of previous church policy, including a 2005 directive that barred men with "deep-seated homosexual tendencies" from the priesthood. Not so, Dolan said on Wednesday in a blog post. "No change in church teaching here . . . or no intended `correction' to a more `dour' approach by his predecessors," said Dolan. In fact, the archbishop continued, Francis does not have the power to change church doctrine. "Catholics know that the pope, like all of us, is a servant of the truth of the Gospel, not a crafter. Doctrine is a given; it is settled, inherited, faithfully passed on. That’s his duty, and he’s sure doing it well." As archbishop of New York and president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, Dolan is widely considered the most powerful Catholic official in the country. He was also part of the conclave that elected Francis. Since the pope's comments on Monday, conservatives have framed them as a change in tone, not substance, noting that Francis quoted from the Catholic Catechism and would hardly announced a change in doctrine during an impromptu press conference. CNN Vatican analyst John Allen noted, however, that "at a certain point, tone becomes substance if it’s seen as revitalizing the prospects of the church." READ MORE: How Pope Francis is revolutionizing the church Rather than a change in doctrine, the pope's "brief remarks were about mercy," Dolan said. "The church considers unjust discrimination against any homosexual a sin," the archbishop said, adding that "homosexual acts, which are contrary to Revelation...can always be healed by God's mercy." "And when God’s mercy is sought, it is always given, the sin wiped away and forgotten; because of this, nobody — not the Pope, not a bishop, not a priest — can judge another!" Other church-watchers noted, however, that Francis himself cited a previous pope while dismissing the possibility of women's ordination during the same airplane press conference. "By saying that John Paul II had `definitively…closed the door to women priests,' Francis was himself pointing to the fact that popes determine church law," wrote blogger Mark Silk at Religion News Service. Dolan closed his blog post by lamenting that so much media coverage has concentrated on "these weary issues" rather than "the noble themes that ran through Copacabana Beach," where World Youth Day was held.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Can anyone see of Life's Ending Days..? Or are you just being as a log sent adrift upon the social oceans of watered down moralism..? Does not humankind's civil banners wave aimlessly within and upon airy happenstance augments of embittered communal depravities..? Is it then, whomever barks the loudest will become the most herded..? I've heard it said that anyone with enough vocalizing will disparagingly voice displeasing waves toward their shamrocks cloven hordes to eventually smash any glass houses still not yet broken... Whom will one eat with when the last ox becomes the final feast and how will one drink of the last eg to ever be tapped..?
Whom will one eat with when the last ox becomes the final feast and how will one drink of the last keg to ever be tapped..?
It's "who". "Whom" is objective case.
My objectives are so made even in your objectivity of such issues to be made as just a contrary contriteness nevertheless but not as a forevermore in no uncertainties to so be tallied and bantered about.. We all will see our End's Day but perhaps not in the same appointed hour nor minute or not even the same day's waning or week or month or even the same year... As it ever is the only thing that will be left is Nothingness when Time itself will ovulate and become just a Big Bang once again...
So you're saying time needs a tampon.
More or less I guess... Never needed one myself... and since I'm not real suited for such things,,, I leave your womanly issues up to your nursing care... 🙂
🙂
"Nineteenth-century agnostic Robert G. Ingersoll branded Revelation "the insanest of all books".[30] Thomas Jefferson omitted it along with most of the Biblical canon, from the Jefferson Bible, and wrote that at one time, he "considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams." [31]
Martin Luther once "found it an offensive piece of work" and John Calvin "had grave doubts about its value."[32]
I would drink to the final ox, but the end
dolan coming out to assure church followers that the catholic church is still as backward thinking as ever.
LOL
There's nothing more bitter than an old nelly queen who didn't get the crown.
Figures the gayest Bishop around is the one making the most fuss about compassion for gay people.
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhtgINeaJWg&w=640&h=360]
This is almost like when a conservative politician says something ignorant that they really believe, and then their lackeys follow behind to "correct" any "misstatements"....i.e. "Oh no, no, that's not what he meant, this is what he really meant....you just misunderstood his actual statement."
In other words, business as usual for the religion corporation and discrimination machine that it fuels.
Except this is backwards – the pope is saying intelligent, enlightened things and the church is trying dumb it down.
Nope, Church is not dumbing it down...they said nothing about what the Pope said needed to be corrected. In fact, the Archbishop said that gays are not to be discriminated against. Pretty clear.
What people need to understand is that Catholicism makes it our duty that every act we do have purpose (not sure I entirely agree on EVERYthing)...and the purpose of secks is to have kids. So when ghey acts are "contrary" it's the same as non-procreative secksual hetero acts being "contrary", really. Although it's all a little flexible. These aren't serious venal sins anyway I imagine.
Excet that the church doesn't have anything against sterile couples or post-menopausal women having se.x (or using the rhythm method), so it's all a bit hokey and made up.
Baloney.
The church says the Rhythm Method is moral.
The intent of USING and planing, and going to FP class, is to purposely, intentionally prevent a pregnancy.
The CCC says the crux of a moral act is "intention".
To STOP the formation of a child.
If THAT is moral, they cannot say other non-child producing s'ex, between people who cannot have a child is immoral.
You do know John Paul I was going to say BC was not a serious matter, and they killed him before he could, and they destroyed the papers doing so. Bunch of inconsistent hypocrites.
The Rhythm Method of birth control wasn't even formulated until the 1930s, and although practiced by some Catholics, it was technically a "sin" until the 1950s (and, even then, the encyclical said use was permitted "under certain circ.umstances").
For 19 centuries procreation was the only allowed reason for se.xual relations.
Maybe the Church will come around someday about condoms too. The misery they have created in the meantime is horrid.
One more "doctrine" / "moral tradition" they changed when it was convenient.
so, when a couple has as many kids as it can raise properly, do the father and mother refrain from relations or do they just pop until they drop?
The gods gave them brains, but don't expect them to consider using them part of the deal, Sammy.
the pope, bishops and cardinals are the lowest form of human. They are the LAST group anyone should listen to.
arrest them for crimes against children world wide. They delivered the final blow to small children abused, denying help and delivering threats,, rather than helping.
Agreed. In any other organization they would already be in prison.
Why don't you put the filthy rich Sob's going to 3rd world nations/countries seeking sensual pleasures with enslaved children..? Calling the kettle black only when it suits your owned demented nature is true vanity,,!
Ahh stereotypes...ain't life much easier with 'em!
Ahh, religionists in denial. Life is so much easier with the rose colored glasses.
how is stereotyping different than the concept of original sin?
much ado about nothing...
the pope didn't change policy or even suggest the church does. all he said was he tries not to judge g.ays when he meets them. which of course is complete b.u.l.l.s.h.i.t. no policy change saying g.ays should be allowed to serve openly in the priesthood, no policy change saying they approve of g.ay marraige and g.ays should be allowed to marry in all catholic churches, no policy change saying g.ay s.ex isn't evil and isn't a one-way ticket to hell.. just like this pope has made no policy change in the way the church covers up and hides child molestation in their organization.
it's all air and no substance. this pope gets zero credit until he actually affects change.
These "weary" issues about whether or not all people are treated equally.
Boring for Dolan, but vitally important to many other people.
I think this is the Pope's version of "I didn't inhale".
I gave up on the Catholic Church a long time ago. I like this pope though. So far, he seems way more Christ-like than the rest of them.
No, they are just getting better at the spin and adjusting to the times and telling the gullible sheep what they want to hear so they can still swallow balls and all. The pedophile cult is still the same ole pedophile infested cult.
Get it straight. Perhaps this will help 78% of the Priests you degrade are homosexual predators.
pedophilia has nothing to do with being g.ay or straight.
I know you've been told before, fred, but homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing.
Gay men are attracted to OTHER MEN.
Pedophiles are attracted to CHILDREN.
See the difference?
funny how when a man molests a little boy, it's proof h.omos.exuality is evil, but when a man molests a little girl, there's never an outcry that heteros.exuality is evil...
Looks like you believe the myth that homosexuals are not attracted to boys. The predominate age of the boys was 11-15 years of age not children in the majority of Priest cases.
This is why the gay community insists homosexuals can supervise Boy Scouts in the shower yet the straight community will not allow men to supervise Jr High girls taking gym showers ?
@fred, Please provide a link to any source suggesting that any adult supervise minors in the shower in educational or recreational settings. ANY source. ANY adults. ANY recreational or educational activities.
fred apparently ran away as usual.
Fred. Blaming the victims. No moral adult would engage in se'x with a child, whatever age. A moral adult would refuse, and get the child help, IF indeed it were the child initiating. There is not a shred of evidence the victims initiated. Fred is a lying, rationalizing sob.
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V78QfxvTbo&w=640&h=360]
The belief that an infinitely old, all-knowing sky-god, powerful enough to create the entire Universe and its billions of galaxies, chose a small nomadic group of Jews from the 200 million people then alive to be his "favored people" provided they followed some rural laws laid down in Bronze Age Palestine equals Judaism.
Judaism PLUS a belief that the same god impregnated a virgin with himself to give birth to himself, so he could sacrifice himself to himself to negate a rule he himself made equals Christianity.
Christianity PLUS a belief that grocary store bread and wine magically becomes the flesh and blood of Jesus in church each Sunday morning, that telling a priest the bad things you did can cause them to be forgiven because a god is listening to the priest and that dead people can talk to a god and ask for miracles to be performed on Earth equals Catholicism.
I guess Catholics take the gold medal for utterly stupid beliefs. One can imagine Timothy Dolan standing on a pedestal, accepting his medal and humbly proclaiming, “If my beliefs are even more ridiculous than others, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants”.
The "giants" of today's timed lineages are of sciences impartations... But alas, even the scientists have declared their impotence of hardness to their reconnoitering embitterment of the chalice of truths that they dare enflame others towards and engulf all mannerisms of livid longitudinal escapades left alone and earnestly left unchallenged by many lots of unbalanced folks mindedness yearnings...
Wherefore does Nothingness end itself upon the Outer Spaces' Continuums and just how many Big Bangs were there that did so happen within the allness of Nothingness itself..? Be it an aloneness this Big Bang as science does attest to or maybe unknowable to scientists a myriad of immeasurable Big Bangs..? It seems to be by me, that a certainty of unmeasured Big Bangs is more one's contagion to be willed than just a single Big Bang... Nothingness is yet veiled in its secrecies and mankind is still infantile in their searches for something other then fortuitous fame in their unending wordage prides...
I agree the RCC added a lot of it's nonsense to the truth but that is what we all do. Even you add nonsense to what science actually knows about the unknown or unknowable when you extrapolate a world view based on biologic evolution for example that is limited to observable patterns. The same applies to other disciplines of science. Science does not address the origin of life, purpose of life or afterlife only the tangible creation itself.
Evolution shows that the bible creation myth is not correct. Why do you presume life has a creator and a purpose?
Evolution does no such thing. If you make a bunch of assumptions of the physical nature of Adam and Eve then you are correct. The Bible leaves a lot of outs for those who want to believe and on the flip side provides lots of ammunition for atheists that want to disbelieve. Either way Jesus was right when he said the Word of God cuts like a two edged sword and seek and you will find. Looks like you found exactly what you were looking for as did I.
@colin
haha, exactly. and of course judaism/christianity are mostly plagiarized from previous religions/mythologies. funny how christians often hate the jews and blame them for the death of their messiah when christianity sprang from judaism, wouldn't exist without it. jesus himself was a jew, yet you have southern christians saying jewish people are evil. it would be hilarious if jesus came back today with a big hook nose... how many southerners would follow a skinny, bearded jew? lol.
I also think its ironic that Allah is closer to the god that Jesus believed in than the Christian god of today is. After Christianity speciated off from Judaism, the Christians, of course, came up with their trinitarian God – Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Muslims rejected the idea of the Trinity as it was too polytheistic for their taste and stuck with the monotheist Jewish idea of Yahweh.
This all happened well after Jesus was dead,. He believed in the strictly monotheist god, like the Jews still do and the Muslims "returned" to.
Colin,
That's the spin. That Islam is an "Abraham" religion. In fact it isn't.
Ever read the Satanic Verses ?
The fact is Allah was the "renamed" Arabic god "Sin" (the Arabic moon-god).
SIn's 3 divine daughters, were the SAME 3 daughters Allah originally had, (before Muhammad said "the devil made me do it"). The god Sin, was around in Canaan along with Yahweh. When they cooked up Islam they laid claim to Yahweh, but in fact it was really a development/continuity of Sin. Al-Ilah was the crescent phase of the moon-god, Sin.
Whenever Islam conquered any country they encountered different gods. As long as the conquered people agreed to be monotheistic, they said "oh ok, your god is just Allah by a different name". That claim was made about Yahweh. In fact it's not really accurate. Many times in the OT the Hebrews were told to stop worshiping the god Sin.
Allah is not, and never was Yahweh. It a perpetuated historical fallacy of believers who need to deny historical facts.
Interestng Fluffy, I had never heard that.
Fluffy is 100 % correct.
Why do you think Rushdie's "The Satanic Verses" made such a commotion when it was published ?
He had to go into hiding, and there was a "fatwa" proclaimed against him.
They can't handle the truth.
"speciated off from Judaism"
=> Proof of extrapolated world view that does not have scientific basis. biologist Orator F. Cook would not approve of your word selection for the Christian species.
@Colin
You said, "I guess Catholics take the gold medal for utterly stupid beliefs."
Don't forget Mormonism and Scientology. There some really crazy shit out there.
True, I have another version of this post that ends with Mormons.
Why do you refer to the Abrahamic god as a "sky god"? I think there may have been a heavens-above idea in these religions historically, but the sky does not, to the best of my knowledge, have anything to do with the modern forms of any of the religions. Do you have some meaning I'm missing?
For catholicism you forgot to add in that you can buy off the church for committed sins via indulgences.
yes please stop telling us what to do and what not to do. people are intelligent enough to decide on their own. you have a church to run.
Honey Boo Boo and her parents and the people that watch that show is proof enough you are incorrect.
Obviously the orange Beluga Whale Timmy Dolan does not consider gluttony 'an intrinsic moral evil'. Does anybody believe for one moment that Dolan and his fellow minions are sacrificing their love of woman to serve God? When will the world realize these witch doctors, with their chants, and costumes do not matter.
If you are a product of an accidental universe what matters?
Sad you have to believe in mythology to appreciate life.
Life is very precious and we all have one shot that may last a few years or 100 years. God is loving enough to allow us to compress our experience (good or bad) into a spot of time that approaches nothingness on the tapestry of eternity. Man was created with an eternal purpose and it is the atheist that elects time approaching nothingness over life.
I'd rather be godless than a proponent of child molestation. God or no god, I won't place my faith in an organization with such a history as the Catholic church. Same as I won't believe in Fred Phelp's cult either.
AJ
The likes of Phelps reflect mans abusive nature and is no different than Stalin the atheist. Both are examples of evil or if you cannot understand that then just admit they are examples of man failing to love others.
AJ
I doubt the numbers of abusive priests (percentage wise) are any different than other institutions that have vulnerable children present. As to your use of the word pedophile I find it interesting how you choose to hide the fact it was not pedophilia but homosexual men abusing prepubescent boys in 78% of the cases.
You are guilty of covering up homosexual lusts.
in no organization has child molestation been so widespread. in no organization have they for so long and so successfully covered up molestations, helping the molester avoid criminal prosecution,helping the molester move to a new church where he can do it again. the church should be utterly ashamed for aiding such monsters.
Bootyfunk
Sorry but wrong ! 2,570 teachers lost their jobs because they sexually abused their students in 2001-2005, 4,392 priests over 50 years lost their jobs over sex abuse. It is not just a church problem.
fred, No temptation isn't only a church problem, however the church claims the moral highground and preaches others on how to behave, and the churches have gone to extraordinary lengths to hide the problem and avoid responsibility.
@fred, about one in five US kids attends a Catholic church (ever) while almost all attend school. Those who do attend Catholic churches spend at most a few hours a week with the priests. I don't think this tells us anything definitevly about the church or what happened in any of these alleged incidents, but the numbers aren't something you can compare.
man was made with an eternal purpose?
of course.....man is too scared of death than to believe anything but this
Well, he doesn't see any problem with raping hundreds of deaf boys and hiding money away so they can't sue later so why would gluttony be any kind of a sin? He laughs at the idiot fool sheep who come to his defense.
JR
Great thoughts filled with godlessness.
And you're one of the disgusting, repulsive, gullible, deluded sheep I was talking about. Why don't you child rape supporters just die already?
"Doctrine is a given; it is settled, inherited, faithfully passed on"
Which is why your rigid, inflexible and rampantly inaccurate Doctrine is driving away your own followers. The more that is revealed to simply be subjective hogwash, the fewer and fewer will convert to an obviously anachronistic belief system.
¡ǝʌıʇɔǝdsɹǝd ssǝlpoƃ ɐ ɯoɹɟ plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ǝǝs sʇsıǝɥʇ∀
Fred how did you type like this? just curious.
Cheap way is to go to: http://www.upsidedowntext.com/
Type your text and it flips it for you
cut and paste the flipped translation into your comment.
flipit.com
Fred likes being on the bottom.
I couldn't read it. Does it say "I'm a supporter of child raping priests and a deluded fucking idiot"?
No it said, "If you are stereotyping priests as child abusers, then logically, you must stereotype gays as child abusers, unless you are a hypocrite."
How about no stereotyping? That was for our grandparents.
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFWtsT5zRKo&w=640&h=360]
Well, you finally posted something I can agree with.
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH2w6Oxx0kQ&w=640&h=360]
Once again, Dolan tries to spin the message. We can only thank G*d that he was chosen.
Dolan is part of the problem. He represents the "old" church, and there will be a battle. Pope Francis will not stop until the church is humble again.
Humble again?! Lol...you mean going back to burning witches and slaughtering all who do not follow their rule?
It's nice to see some intelligent debate on this site, for once. Excluding lamelionheart, of course.
Doesn't seem like he should be putting words in the Pope's mouth. I'm sure the Pope said what he meant. And, really, who are we to judge anyone else? Living your life with kindness and empathy is the way to go no matter what your religion is.