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 Cardinal Timothy Dolan in Rome before the conclave in Rome that elected Pope Francis.
July 31st, 2013
05:53 PM ET
Bishop: Pope was 'on a high' during gay remarksBy Daniel Burke, CNN (CNN) - The nation's leading Roman Catholic archbishop said Wednesday that Pope Francis was "on a high" from his first international trip as pontiff when he said "Who am I to judge?" gays and lesbians. Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York, who traveled last week to Brazil with the pope for World Youth Day, said the massive turnout - estimates ran as high as 3 million - and ecstatic crowds likely gave Francis hope that he would "revive the church on his home continent of Latin America." Francis was the archbishop of Buenos Aires in Argentina from 1998 until his papal election in March. "The pope was visibly `on a high' from his first international pastoral visit in Rio," Dolan said. "Understandably so. Because I was there with him, I can verify that the superlatives being used — `oceanic' crowds, `frenzied' welcomes, `inspirational, heartfelt' words — are not exaggerations at all." On the plane from Brazil back to Rome on Monday, the pope gave an 80-minute press conference in which he addressed a number of controversial issues for the Catholic Church, including homosexuality, the ordination of women and scandals involving a so-called "gay lobby" at the Vatican. Regarding gay priests, Francis said, “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” READ MORE: Pope Francis on gays: `Who am I to judge?' The remarks were read by some as a rejection of previous church policy, including a 2005 directive that barred men with "deep-seated homosexual tendencies" from the priesthood. Not so, Dolan said on Wednesday in a blog post. "No change in church teaching here . . . or no intended `correction' to a more `dour' approach by his predecessors," said Dolan. In fact, the archbishop continued, Francis does not have the power to change church doctrine. "Catholics know that the pope, like all of us, is a servant of the truth of the Gospel, not a crafter. Doctrine is a given; it is settled, inherited, faithfully passed on. That’s his duty, and he’s sure doing it well." As archbishop of New York and president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, Dolan is widely considered the most powerful Catholic official in the country. He was also part of the conclave that elected Francis. Since the pope's comments on Monday, conservatives have framed them as a change in tone, not substance, noting that Francis quoted from the Catholic Catechism and would hardly announced a change in doctrine during an impromptu press conference. CNN Vatican analyst John Allen noted, however, that "at a certain point, tone becomes substance if it’s seen as revitalizing the prospects of the church." READ MORE: How Pope Francis is revolutionizing the church Rather than a change in doctrine, the pope's "brief remarks were about mercy," Dolan said. "The church considers unjust discrimination against any homosexual a sin," the archbishop said, adding that "homosexual acts, which are contrary to Revelation...can always be healed by God's mercy." "And when God’s mercy is sought, it is always given, the sin wiped away and forgotten; because of this, nobody — not the Pope, not a bishop, not a priest — can judge another!" Other church-watchers noted, however, that Francis himself cited a previous pope while dismissing the possibility of women's ordination during the same airplane press conference. "By saying that John Paul II had `definitively…closed the door to women priests,' Francis was himself pointing to the fact that popes determine church law," wrote blogger Mark Silk at Religion News Service. Dolan closed his blog post by lamenting that so much media coverage has concentrated on "these weary issues" rather than "the noble themes that ran through Copacabana Beach," where World Youth Day was held.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Dolan is just one of many stupid old white men who will soon be ash. Good riddance.
Me thinks Dolan forgets his own teachings, as the Pope closest to god, as was the first Pope Peter. I believe that Francis is the biggest breath of fresh air the church has has since Pope John Paul, not the second one, but the first one that was assinated by his own followers. So let me the first to say don't be surprised if Francis suddenly passes away from heart failure. I like this guy, and I'm a fallen catholic, the reason is really a simple one, rather then god telling everyone on the planet, he choose just a few and made them shove their believes down people's throats for 2000 years. Any god could tell the whole earth of his plans, scripture is being used as the basis of Isreal's claim that Palestine is in fact Isreal's and that why they can get away with murder. Books were written by men, gods would have no use for such subtle tools, after all he or she is god. As long as civilization continues to be hoodwinked by you who choose to follow man made scriptures and that is of all faiths who proclaim to know this special beings words. Its okay to practice any faith you want, but in the words of a ten year old, your not the boss of me.
"these weary issues" So that's what marginalization of gays is? A "weary issue." I beg to differ. This is about human beings.
Pope and all of his cronies are hallucinating. No such thing as ghosts, goblins, gods, leprechans etc.
Dolan is the one who is high, and the Pope should give him smackdown.
Bootyfunk
BAAAAAA. HAAAAAA you made my day!
Dolan is spot on. The problem many have is that they view permissiveness as loving and any restriction on behavior as hateful. I guess every parent is hateful then.
@Jim Bob Jones
You said, "The problem many have is that they view permissiveness as loving and any restriction on behavior as hateful."
No, placing restrictions on other people based on your infantile beliefs is hateful. If you think that your imaginary friend doesn't want you to engage in homosexuality, than you better not engage in it, but your fairy tales only apply to you.
First: Permissiveness does not equal loving.
Second: It is reasonable to believe in God. Empirical evidence supports this. Look up the Kalam Cosmological Argument.
Third: I did not make fun of anyone's beliefs, belittle or act intentionally insulting toward anyone in my original post. I would respectfully ask you to show me the same courtesy and consideration.
Thank you.
There is zero empirical evidence of a divine creator. Secondly, your philosophical argument is deep-rooted in theology. It has nothing to do with science and is only spouted off by mostly christian followers. Try again.
Brad. The argument I presented is rooted in science and does not contradict anything we know about the physical universe. I've never seen something spontaneously created from nothing. If that type of thing happened, don't you think it would be observable in nature?
@Jim Bob Jones
You said, "It is reasonable to believe in God. Empirical evidence supports this. Look up the Kalam Cosmological Argument."
Bullshit. It is just as reasonable to believe in gods as it is to believe in the Tooth Fairy. The cosmological argument is bunk. You are still free to hold those beliefs, but they are yours alone.
You said, "I did not make fun of anyone's beliefs, belittle or act intentionally insulting toward anyone in my original post."
You implied that it is acceptable to discriminate against gays based on your delusion. It isn't.
You said, "I would respectfully ask you to show me the same courtesy and consideration."
Infantile beliefs deserve no respect. I'll respect your right to hold them, though. Fair enough?
Oh, come now. Society places restrictions on all sorts of behavior that it deems inappropriate, as it should. Your problem is that you don't believe in God and, as a result, you don't think other people should have the right to make decisions (or contribute to the larger societal conversation) based on their deeply held personal convictions/beliefs. Your rude response is evidence aplenty. Moreover, your attempt to belittle the poster underscores the fact that you don't really have a substantive argument to make ... so instead you attempt to slap him down, in the hope that the ferocity of your comment will make him go away. My vote is to put away the vitriol and have a civil discourse. But I suppose my opinion doesn't matter because it's based on the Christian notion that every person deserves a baseline level of respect (since we're created in God's image). And, as you've already pointed out, making judgements based on Christian beliefs is not acceptable behavior in your opinion.
Oh come on now. We live in the Information Age and there's an abundance of verifiable facts out there about how the original text of the Bible doesn't condemn gay people.
@k
You said, "Oh, come now. Society places restrictions on all sorts of behavior that it deems inappropriate, as it should."
If it's based on a fairy tale, it shouldn't.
You said, "Your problem is that you don't believe in God and, as a result, you don't think other people should have the right to make decisions (or contribute to the larger societal conversation) based on their deeply held personal convictions/beliefs."
You are free to hold your infantile beliefs, just keep them to yourself. Discrimination based on them doesn't belong in a civilized society.
You said, "Your rude response is evidence aplenty. Moreover, your attempt to belittle the poster underscores the fact that you don't really have a substantive argument to make"
If you keep your delusions to yourself, I wouldn't have to get in your face. And it isn't my argument to make, other than to point out that religious beliefs should be considered baloney until believers come up with some evidence for their imaginary friend.
You said, "... so instead you attempt to slap him down, in the hope that the ferocity of your comment will make him go away."
Only ridicule is appropriate for ridiculous beliefs.
You said, "My vote is to put away the vitriol and have a civil discourse."
Fine. Start by substantiating your silly beliefs. Provide evidence for your god.
You said, "But I suppose my opinion doesn't matter because it's based on the Christian notion that every person deserves a baseline level of respect (since we're created in God's image)."
Then why are you defending a bigot that does nothing of the sort?
You said, "And, as you've already pointed out, making judgements based on Christian beliefs is not acceptable behavior in your opinion."
They're about as valid as making them based on a belief in the Easter Bunny. That doesn't mean that they are inherently wrong.
Dolan is feeling ballsy. A Bush-era appointed judge just said he can get away with enormous fraud!
Love the sinner hate the sins, Catholics support his, protestants or non catholic Christians do not....They say hate the sinner and the sin...which is biblical?
This comment is absurd. The phrase "Love the sinner, hate the sin" is horrific theology–it's snide, patronizing, and demeaning. Most people who use this cliche do not love the person to whom they are speaking. Secondly, as a Protestant, I am about love. I do not judge others, but I do love them.
I don't believe that to be true for most non-Catholic Christians. Some, but not most. Love the sinner and hate the sin is a commonly used phrase in Protestant circles. There certainly has been insensitivity though, and that applies to many different issues, not just one.
Sounds like a lot of miscommunication between Protestants and Catholics...
Catholics aren't real Christians anyway, so none of what they say matters to us.
Catholics are the original and authentic Christians. All other Christian religions are an offshoot of Catholicism, hence they are not real.
Church full of pedophiles.
A US Marine was just convicted of opening fire and killing women and children in an Afghan village. I suppose that makes ALL Marines child killers? Assigning to an entire group the sins of its worst members is to fall prey to bigotry.
Catholics say love the sinner hate the sin, they distinguish between the sinner and the sin and even acknowledge that by saying this they are not saying they are not sinners ( whatever the sin) , protestants or non catholic Christians ( some e.g a Christ embassy church friend of mine ) would never agree to this especially when applied to gays . He says he hates both the sinner and the sin -and would never pray for them – Which is more Christian?
That just isn't true.
Telling a gay person, "I love you but hate your sin" is like telling a black person, "I love you but hate your skin color."
It's the most obnoxious statement possible.
Just as a note Michael, you set up a false analogy here. The sin is not located in being gay, but in willfully acting upon the motivation which is itself inherent. Thus the analogy created between the inherent skin color and the inherent orientation is innacurate and your assertion fails. There are good arguements to be made here , but this is not one of them.
Thats ok though. None of it really matters anyway. In the end they're all just imaginary friends. How about putting your energy into something that positively affects life now? Stop hating other people because their ghost story is a little bit different from yours.
"NONE OF WHAT THEY SAY MATTERS TO US". FYI: Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priest developed the idea of the free-market economics five hundred years before Adam Smith. The Catholic Church invented the university. "Even though some thirty-five craters on the moon are named for Jesuit scientists and mathematicians, the Church's contributions to astronomy are all but unknown to the average educated American" (How The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, pg.4). All these from a church that does not "matter to us".
Sure, science was "born" in the Church because religion controlled everything during the time period. Religion also controlled the results. All Classical scientists, inventors, and discovers followed the Church because it meant one thing - funding. To produce results contrary to the belief system of the Church wasn't a pleasant experience.
Additionally, the lovely author you quote is a racist and publishes "historical" books with a huge political slant. Not to be trusted.
I think your understanding here is a bit off. How about trying Arthur Koestler's "The Sleepwalkers." The mentality that all scientists had to comport to the established theories is patently false (Kepler, Copernicus, Brahe, etc.). Koestler treats this well in his collective history of the conversation between religion and physics.
Newsflash to Cardinal Dolan: There is nothing wrong, sinful, or immoral about being gay or gay acts. It is normal and natural for humans to be bi, gay, or straight. People are born gay. It is innate, God given, beautiful part of a person. You are sending a terrible message to our young gay kids....and to straight kids. It's 2013 and I can't believe people are still uneducated in Christianity to know that it is a man created mythology.
Read Romans 1:18; God says it's unnatural...
That from Paul...You might need to read your bible, take a closer look at Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:1-10. Jesus did not have any problem with Roman centurion who was gay and was willing to heal the soldier's lover. In fact, Jesus praise the Roman gay centurion's faith as one of the greatest in Israel. It shows that Jesus approved of their relationship, otherwise he would have condemned him.
You don't even know what Romans is talking about nor condemning.
Dolan just needs to shut up. He is part of the hate the church teaches. Immediately trying to control what the Pope says and obviously making a power grab and encouraging factions and polarization of the church. Francis is working to share universal love, care of the poor and personal humility with a true Christ-like demeanor. Obviously Dolan doesn't share any of those values.
What are you even talking about? Did you read Dolan's remarks?
People who say the Bible doesn't condone gay relationships really need to figure out what the most obvious heated, passionate romance in the Bible is between two people.
Unless, of course, you can find another instance of two men alone together where one takes off all his clothes and gives them to the other as a sign of his devotion. Or maybe even find another story of man holding, weeping and kissing another man while he tells him his love for him is greater than that of any woman.
Michael, you have do great violence to the scripture to come out with that view. To put it bluntly, you're a liar and you simply made it say what YOU wanted it to say because you love your sin. Period, end of story.
It's a known fact that jesus had unholy relations with 12 men.
Well I guess that's settled then...
It's a known fact that Jesus is a protagonist in a story book.
Joe, which part did I lie about???
Did David NOT take off his robe, and thus was totally nude, and give Jonathan his clothes as a sign of devotion? Did they not hold each other, weep, kiss while David told Jonathan his love for him was greater than that of any woman?
Give it up.
the bishop wants everyone to know the pope didn't mean to be tolerant to g.ays
he was in Rio partying and took 2 hits of Ecstasy
the DJ was dropping some fat beats
the pope was just enjoying a great hand massage and light show
and he just wasn't feeling h.omophobic at the time
So when the pope is "on a high" ... feeling great because of a positive recent experience... he doesn't feel angry at gay people any more.
So maybe we should start putting Paxil in the Vatican water supply?
It'll go good with his viagra fueled bath house all-male fine oil massage parties. I heard he doesn't even pull out.
Right. I assume this is also a "known fact."
Too bad the pope, bishops and priests are not yet servants of THE TRUTH. Dolan pretty much confirms that words in the Bible were authored by fallible men, not the infallible God that supports, but not directs, my life.
Which god is that?
The Creator of the Universe or Universal Consciousness.........but certainly not the fictional, childish, primitive, mythological God of Christianity.
It's pretty evident by this comment that you don't understand what we mean when we refer to God.
Would some of cardinals and Vatican bureaucrats stop apologizing for the pope. I find Francis a breathe of fresh air. Maybe a Jesuit was needed some time ago.
he didn't change policy in any way. he didn't say g.ays should be allowed to marry in catholic churches or openly join the priesthood. zero points.
The more the church changes, the more it remains the same.
especially when it doesn't change at all.
So, the Cardinals are disrespecting what the Pope says.
I guess that really blows a big hole in the idea that the Pope is infallible...
Wow... Wow... and Again, Wow!
These small-minded men love their power far too much to accept the thought that their leader might actually be a decent human being.
expecially when his comments didn't mean s.h.i.t. he didn't say g.ays should be treated the same as everyone else, allowed to marry in catholic churches and that the priesthood would be open to h.omos.exual priests. no points.
especially when his comments didn't mean a thing. he didn't say g.ays should be treated the same as everyone else, allowed to marry in catholic churches and that the priesthood would be open to h.omos.exual priests. no points.
hey look, a picture of a guy no one in their right mind would leave their child alone with...
and he's coming out to do damage control and tell everyone the pope had taken a fattie hit off the hookah
so his comments, while ambiguous at best, are not to be misconstrued as tolerance toward g.ays
dolan wants to make sure everyone knows the church is not in any way joining the modern world
he wants to assure his cult members they are not living past the 18th century
the church still says no to g.ay love
stay classy, catholic church
Maybe the pope's been getting in on a little all-male bath house action. All those fine oils, sweat and slippery ass sex real hard right in the butt. Sounds like he's got himself a new hobby and wants everyone to enjoy it.