home
RSS
August 15th, 2013
03:48 PM ET

Egypt's Christians under pressure as churches are torched

By Laura Smith-Spark, CNN

(CNN) - As violence again scars Egypt, Christians in the country believe they're being targeted amidst the chaos following a government crackdown on Muslim Brotherhood protest camps in Cairo.

There have been dozens of attacks on Christian churches, homes and businesses in the past 24 hours. Full details of the attacks are still emerging, as the country reels from its bloodiest day in recent history.

Bishop Angaelos, the Cairo-born head of the Coptic Orthodox Church in the United Kingdom, said he was told by colleagues in Egypt that 52 churches had been attacked in the space of 24 hours beginning Wednesday, as well as numerous Christian homes and businesses across the country.

Ishak Ibrahim, a researcher with the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights, told CNN he had confirmed attacks on at least 30 churches so far, in addition to the targeting of church-related facilities, including schools and cultural centers.

FULL STORY
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Church • Coptic Church • Egypt • Middle East

soundoff (706 Responses)
  1. Apple Bush

    What appears to be true is the following:

    1. We are alive
    2. Our atoms will take new forms
    3. God does not "think" about us for we are God (or it)

    August 15, 2013 at 11:56 pm |
  2. lamelionheart

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UWRypqz5-o&feature=player_detailpage

    August 15, 2013 at 10:35 pm |
  3. Age of Reason

    ...if this "JESUS CHRIST" cares so much for "his" churches, then HE should get involved and save the christians before THEY disappear from the face of the earth-FOREVER! Once the christian churches collapse, they (especially the catholic ones) NEVER come back!
    But the problem is that this "jesus" guy NEVER existed, so how can this mythical, political construct save anyone?

    August 15, 2013 at 8:48 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      We can get rid of the churches. Stop giving them money.

      August 15, 2013 at 8:50 pm |
    • lamelionheart

      "His churches" are each and every atomized cellular life form(s) of every cosmological being... Some of our bodies are Godly residences and some are warehouses and some are even religious temples... But many religious folks seem unwilling to fathom this as the scriptures do tell us and many irreligious folks seem unwilling to fathom the differences between the celestial and atomized and cellular cosmologies...

      August 15, 2013 at 9:16 pm |
      • Ken Margo

        What?

        August 15, 2013 at 9:18 pm |
        • lamelionheart

          What..? Drink up and keep on toking Ken... Let those with a brain-yard do the hard work...

          August 15, 2013 at 9:24 pm |
      • lamelionheart

        "His churches" are each and every atomized cellular life form(s) of every "celestialized" cosmological being...

        August 15, 2013 at 9:20 pm |
      • Russ

        @ lamelionheart: sounds like you've confused the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (in Christians only) with pantheism.

        August 15, 2013 at 9:22 pm |
        • lamelionheart

          The "indwelling of the Holy Spirit" is the Nothingness that keeps all atomized cosmologies from colliding together... Science calls this the weak force but I stand that it is the strong force and celestial gravity is the weaker force... Outer Space is the celestial cosmology's Nothingness which is the outer most dwelling place of the Holy Spirit. Yes, I am a Pantheist in that from the Original God was born all mannerisms of the Godly... Death is unavoidable even for the Godly who live and do dwell upon the atomized cellular chasms of all manner of the celestially contrived life essences from the singular cell to the most complex cellular...

          August 15, 2013 at 9:34 pm |
        • OOO

          I call it word salad

          August 15, 2013 at 10:08 pm |
        • evolvedDNA

          OOO..I think LL writes the instructions for putting together IKEA furniture.

          August 15, 2013 at 10:18 pm |
        • lamelionheart

          😳 😀 😳

          August 15, 2013 at 10:27 pm |
      • Ken Margo

        You should change your name to just lame. Your brain yard BS isn't bringing anything to the table. So please continue to be brainwashed by the church, give them your money and keep believing in the nonsense so you don't have to deal with reality like the rest of us.

        August 15, 2013 at 10:07 pm |
        • lamelionheart

          Sired Kenny...

          FYI,, I do not attend any church built by any social order nor do I give any money to any social churches... I believe our bodies are God's true churches as is so written in scripture... Our bodies are not only temples but are also mansions and some are condominiums and even some of our bodies are mere warehouses for all the Godly who dare resides upon the atomized cellular realms of all the celestially contrived living abundances...

          August 15, 2013 at 10:21 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Ken, you are talking to lionlylamb. I think you took a wrong turn.

          August 15, 2013 at 11:37 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Sucking candy is a positive.

          August 15, 2013 at 11:41 pm |
    • Segoy

      @AoR- actually, Jesus is a historical figure. You may not believe in the spiritual aspect of the person but to deny that he existed is a bit silly.

      August 16, 2013 at 7:15 am |
      • scar

        No... His existence is very much in dispute. Some Christians will cite Flavius Josephus as a source, Big problem there, Josephus was born in 37AD, 4 years AFTER the Crucifixion supposedly took place, and the text he wrote supposedly in relation to Christ (his brother James actually) was written in 93AD.

        And without Josephus, there is no other 'neutral' source. Funny how everything related to the very foundation of Christianity was written after the fact.

        August 16, 2013 at 7:35 am |
      • Segoy

        You are imagining conflict where there isn't any. Jesus was a historical person. The vast majority of historians say he was. Heck, even Bart D. Ehrman said, "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees."
        You are using a singular source (the flaws with Josephus) as your linchpin in your argument but that is weak.

        One could say there are five possible accounts for his historical existence with the gospels. Whether you believe the spiritual side is irrelevant. Also the writings of Paul strongly point to his existence because there wouldn't have been an early church without it. You have to admit it's more reasonabl that Jesus existed than the idea that a number of guys from the Galilee region just decided one day to create a character.
        Also the archaeological and historical records support the existence of a man with Jesus's background.

        August 16, 2013 at 8:02 am |
        • G to the T

          I would agree with much of what you said, except for this bit:

          "Also the writings of Paul strongly point to his existence because there wouldn't have been an early church without it."

          IMO the writings of Paul suffer from the same issues you could have with Josephus. He only had second hand impressions of Jesus (yes I doubt the validity of his "damascus experience") and his teachings. He then created his own version of who Jesus was and drove into the ground all dissenting opinions.

          August 16, 2013 at 8:16 am |
        • G to the T

          Actually I take that back. All of the gospels should really fall into that same category, not just Paul's as we have no evidence in favor of (and a good amount against) the idea that the following of jesus attributed tot he gospels actually wrote any of them.

          All that being said, I would say the probability is fairly high that Jesus did exist, though obviously I disagree that the gospels are intended to be historical (as we use the word today) in nature to begin with.

          August 16, 2013 at 8:19 am |
        • Segoy

          I agree that the gospels, Paul...etc are not meant to be docu mentaries but yeah, there are enough info from all of those sources that at leasts points to a historical Jesus.
          I think some atheist sheep out there just want everything to do with christianity to be false that they want Jesus never to have existed.

          August 16, 2013 at 8:24 am |
        • tallulah13

          I try to follow the facts. There may have been a guy named Jesus. There may have been several guys named Jesus. But if there had been a historical Jesus, there are no contemporary accounts, and nothing in the Roman record about him. The subsequent biblical stories have twisted and spun stories and created a mythical Jesus in order to have him fulfill enough prophecy to call him "messiah". However, if all these miracles had occurred and if all the prophecies had actually been fulfilled, then why is there still a Jewish religion? He was supposed to be their Messiah.

          I suspect that there was a radical rabbi or two in that time frame and one of them may have been named Jesus and that there was a small following. Then Saul of Tarsus saw an opportunity to be something more than a middle man in the Roman tax bureaucracy, so he "had a vision" and the rest, as they say, is history.

          Anyway, I'd love to stay and chat, but I have to get to work. Have a nice day.

          August 16, 2013 at 10:31 am |
        • Segoy

          One does not need contemporary accounts to be a historical figure.

          And one can look at Josephus to help confirm Jesus being a historical figure. And not the way most would think. Most historians feel that Josephus's account of John the Baptist is accurate. You therefor take that and add it with all the accounts of Jesus meeting John and there you go.
          In the end, whether one thinks or can prove that the gospels have been tampered with, the essence is still there. There was a jewish man named Jesus in the Galille/Judean region in the 1st century CE that was a teacher who ended up crucified by the romans.
          Have a good day at work and hopefully a good weekend too.

          August 16, 2013 at 10:44 am |
        • tallulah13

          The most famous of josephus' quotes about Jesus is a known forgery, added much later. And the is no contemporary record of a rabbi named Jesus having been crucified. You really do need some sort of contemporary evidence. It's very easy to make up stories, and as history has shown, if you tell a story often enough, people think its true.

          August 16, 2013 at 11:28 am |
        • Segoy

          tallulah, please reread what I wrote. I didn't mention anything about what Josephus said about Jesus. I did however mention John the Baptist. Historians do not think that is forged.
          So you have Josephus and the gospels both agreeing that John the Baptist existed. So it's not that far of a logical leap to say that since the gospels have Jesus meeting with John that Jesus is therefor real as well.
          Don't forget all the other historical info from the gospels that have been confirmed like the existence of Pilate...etc. If minor people such as those existed then why would it be so hard to conclude that the main focus of the narrative, Jesus, existed?

          August 16, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
        • scar

          Segoy

          Bart D. Ehrman ? He assumes that James was real, this from the writings of Paul of Tarsus, who supposedly knew Peter, who supposedly knew James. There are many writing attributed to Paul that were shown to be forgeries, so what he actually wrote and what he didn't is open to question.

          When your entire career is based on one aspect of history (Christianity), its best to not completely destroy it, wouldn't you agree? Ehrman is more honest than most (former) Christian historians about Christianity and the Bible in particular, But he had to make a best guess in the positive on James.

          August 16, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
        • Segoy

          When one takes into consideration all the writings, history, archaeology and culture of the time, it is difficult to come to any other rational conclusion that Jesus was a historical figure.
          Not saying that his spiritual side of things is therefor proven, just saying that there was a man named Jesus that the religion of Christianity is based upon.

          August 16, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
        • scar

          No it isn't difficult at all to doubt credibility of the 'witnesses'. The 'Archeology' suffers the weaknesses as the 'witnesses'.

          Time and time again the archeology claimed by Christians has been at the very least shown to be very much in doubt...i.e. Noah's Ark, The Tower of Babel, and Sodom and Gomorrah. Jericho did lose its wall at least twice – to earthquakes.

          August 17, 2013 at 1:49 am |
  4. skytag

    I doubt people would be so willing to die for such nonsense if they realized there is no great reward waiting for them in an afterlife that doesn't exist.

    August 15, 2013 at 8:31 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      Hey! don't knock those 72 virgins. They've seen saving themselves for ya!

      August 15, 2013 at 8:38 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      @sky.................You know it's all about the money. The same reasons we'll never be able to get rid of guns and drugs. Remember when that clown said the world was going to end! He had no problems taking donations from F00LS that believed his garbage. Those people failed to realize that if the world is going to end, where is he going to spend the money? At the end of the day, it's about the almighty dollar.

      August 15, 2013 at 8:43 pm |
      • skytag

        Sorry, I don't buy the money angle. There are a few exceptions, of course, but by and large people in churches and the ministry are sincere and you need money to run any organization.

        August 15, 2013 at 9:24 pm |
        • oscar in the doublewide trash can

          skytag

          If we were talking about building maintenance and new construction and reasonable living allowances you'd have a point.
          But obscenely wealthy churches like the RCC and the LDS spend a fraction of what they take in. Even the small independent churches rake in the cash. Today it is entirely money driven.

          August 15, 2013 at 11:05 pm |
        • skytag

          @oscar in the doublewide trash can: "If we were talking about building maintenance and new construction and reasonable living allowances you'd have a point.
          But obscenely wealthy churches like the RCC and the LDS spend a fraction of what they take in."

          Do you have financial data to support this? If not it's meaningless rhetoric.

          I haven't known a lot of Catholics, but I've known a lot of Mormons and based on what I've seen your claims here are baseless. I'm sure the Mormon church takes in a fair bit of money given they teach it's a commandment to tithe 10% of your gross income, but they have a lay ministry, so they aren't paying ministers, and there is always money available for buildings, activities, taking care of their needy members, and so on. If they build a building it's paid for, they don't borrow and they don't have "building funds" like so many churches do.

          Since they have a lay ministry that receives no compensation and no one in the Mormon church's leadership pursued a career in the church it's kind of hard to argue that it's all about money for them.

          All contributions to Salt Lake City and is spent wherever its needed. If they have a enough members in some dirt poor town in Mexico to warrant building a chapel the church builds a chapel, regardless of how much the members in that town have contributed. If some dirt poor member in a third world country wants to serve a mission the church will pay his way.

          I've never seen any figures documenting how much they take in or how much they spend, and I'd bet real money you haven't either, in which case you're just talking out your ass.

          "Even the small independent churches rake in the cash. Today it is entirely money driven."

          Sorry, but without credible numbers I can't take such claims as anything more than cynicism.

          August 15, 2013 at 11:41 pm |
        • oscar in the doublewide trash can

          Go to momonthink.com, under the t.ithing heading, off to the left you'll see different topics on finaces This is a site by current members, not disenchanted bitter former members. Read the section..it isn't that big. Their supposedly unpaid clergy receive a undisclosed figure "to help them focus on the work at hand" – The Church guards its finances closely with most of the corporate dealing handled by The Corporation of the President – an ent.ity whose financial dealings are also withheld for the members.

          Why are they hiding the financial dealings from the members of their own church?

          As for the RCC it'd take hours to pull up just the North American data – its there but is intentionally fragmented in light of its legal troubles here.

          August 16, 2013 at 6:40 am |
        • oscar in the doublewide trash can

          Oh and you re dead wrong on how you describe their "no building fund". The local community is required to meet a quarter of the building costs – then Salt Lake steps in with the final 3/4. They do this with every building they put up except their Temples.

          August 16, 2013 at 6:47 am |
      • Dazy

        Let me tell you what I know. I know my father and mother in law. He served as a minister his whole life. He certainly is not wealthy. He lives in a modest house and a small amount of acreage. They are in their 80's. They use every moment of every single day (and have as long as I've known them) working to help people. They use every inch of their acreage to grow food. They can it, freeze it and cook with it to deliver to shut-ins. They take dozens of people, some they barely know, to doctor's appointments. He has his PHD in pastoral counseling and offers his counseling services for free. They visit people in hospitals at least once a week. While he has a strong faith, he's known a great deal of suffering and heartache, yet his faith gives him peace in the storm. If you didn't know them well, you'd know none of this. They are quiet and live their lives in a way which they hope honors God. Sure, there are people that call themselves Christians that are truly awful people. There are also people like my in-laws. Your opinion is based on your experiences... and I'm sorry for that, but you're just wrong when spout off such bigoted rhetoric.

        August 16, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
    • Camus's Sisyphus

      Why don't you just give in to the absurdity of existence and commit suicide skytag? There is no reason to exist, any meaning you give it is a delusion. This is regardless if you are atheist or religious.

      August 15, 2013 at 8:51 pm |
      • skytag

        Well, that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

        August 15, 2013 at 8:58 pm |
        • Camus's Sisyphus

          Probably because you are ignorant in philosophy.

          August 15, 2013 at 9:08 pm |
        • skytag

          "Probably because you are ignorant in philosophy."

          No, it was just dumb.

          August 15, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
        • Camus's Sisyphus

          Nah, you are just ignorant. I have faith however that you will learn to live with it.

          August 16, 2013 at 7:20 am |
  5. skytag

    I guess those Christians forgot to pray for God to protect them and their churches.

    Christians are always claiming God answers prayer, that he's there for you when you need him, and so on, but then when people need him he's nowhere to be found. Why can't people accept the obvious?

    August 15, 2013 at 7:53 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      JimK57 wrote:
      "Because god does not interfere in human lives. Everything that happens here does not matter in the big scheme of things."

      Jim accepts it. Dont'cha Jim?

      August 15, 2013 at 7:55 pm |
    • Mike from CT

      Where is protection from this world one of the promises that God makes

      Why can't people accept the obvious?

      August 16, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • sam Yaza

      why do you need to be protected from this world?, .... dude i really hate you Christians if you hate life so much

      kill your self

      August 16, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
  6. Sam Yaza

    i stop caring after they elected Morsi, if they want democracy let them have it, what you always get is Mob rule,

    August 15, 2013 at 7:44 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      Do you really think Morsi was elected? I'd trust a middle east election like I would trust a republican in charge of heath care.

      August 15, 2013 at 7:52 pm |
    • sam Yaza

      yes he was elected, if your suggesting he was a puppet your wrong because the Israeli government wanted him out from the get go, and what Israel want in the middle east the us gives him like the military coup know. the fact is the majority of people in Egypt elected him, the majority just happened to be Muslim. it like if we gave full power the the majority of people in the united states, non-Christians would be already half way to the Jesus camps. to learn about the glory of Christ.

      August 16, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
  7. Thought Purification

    minorities living in muslim countries should leave gracefully, if their lives are in danger.

    August 15, 2013 at 7:31 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Yep, and muslims should not be in such a hurry to cause minorities to feel so endangered in their societies.

      August 15, 2013 at 7:33 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      Frankly I wouldn't live in the middle east even if you gave me the winning lottery numbers.

      August 15, 2013 at 7:39 pm |
      • Cpt. Obvious

        I'd do it. There are as many fake muslims just going through the motions as there are Christians.

        August 15, 2013 at 7:43 pm |
        • Ken Margo

          How can you tell the fake ones? The real ones will give you a hair cut that starts and stops at you neck!

          August 15, 2013 at 7:48 pm |
    • sam Yaza

      "minorities living in Christian countries should leave gracefully, if their lives are in danger."

      1700 of christian doing what Muslims do know, sound to me like jealousy that they cant get away with it any more.

      no you should always stay and fight. you Christians said the same thing when you were driving the druids out of our homeland.

      maybe you Abrahamist should take your lies back to Isrehell. and stay out of our homelands

      August 16, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
  8. MrHighMighty

    Behold the awesome perseverance of Christians in Egypt despite such tribulation. Can there be any doubt about the strength and power of the Holy Spirit that pours out on God's elect keeping them secure in their faith amid such violence? Ultimate triumph and glory is theirs, as these acts only demonstrate the destructiveness of sin, and the eternity of God's grace. But verily I say this persecution of Christians in Egypt is pale compared to what occurred to early believers throughout the Roman Empire in the First Century, and is nothing compared to the global persecution of believers that will occur when God hands the remnants of this world fully over to Satan and his agents in the years before Christ's return for final judgment.

    Every day I give thanks and praises to God for putting me in a time and place where the only persecution for my beliefs I must contend with is verbal or written, not physical or bodily, even though I know that final victory is sweeter for those believers who must face the harshest enemies.

    August 15, 2013 at 6:44 pm |
    • Athy

      Your sermon would have gone over real well in 16th century Massachusetts. Sounds kind of silly nowadays.

      August 15, 2013 at 6:48 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      @Mr High.................."Can there be any doubt about the strength and power of the Holy Spirit that pours out on God's elect keeping them secure in their faith amid such violence?"

      Why doesn't the holy spirit PREVENT the churches from burning down?

      August 15, 2013 at 6:50 pm |
      • JimK57

        Because god does not interfere in human lives. Everything that happens here does not matter in the big scheme of things.

        August 15, 2013 at 6:55 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          Au contraire! What is the miracle of the birth and the cross and the miracles and the "Thomas see the nail prints in my hands" and all that if NOT god "int.erfering in the lives of humans?

          Au contraire! What is "you gotta say this magic spell and believe in these aspects of the big s.p.ooky metaphysical' if not ETERNITY ha.nging upon what a person does in THIS life--not the one to co.me?

          You don't seem to have a very good grasp on your own religion.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
        • JimK57

          I have a very clear grasp of my religion. I will let you in on the two main points.

          1- No hell, everyone goes to "heaven" and yes I mean EVERYONE.
          2- God does not interfere in human lives.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:08 pm |
        • Ken Margo

          @jim....................Is Osama Bin Laden in heaven?

          August 15, 2013 at 7:09 pm |
        • truthprevails1

          No rational minded person would be christian if they had a true grasp on their religion. I love the excuses they come up with as to why their imaginary friend does nothing.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:11 pm |
        • Ken Margo

          @jim..................If EVERYONE goes to heaven, why go to church if you're going to heaven anyway?

          August 15, 2013 at 7:12 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          Jim, if you are correct then nobody's religion or belief or lack thereof matters, and this life matters not at all, so suicide is the way to go. That's a weird religion you've got, there. What do the Christians think of it?

          August 15, 2013 at 7:13 pm |
        • JimK57

          Ken, yes he is.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:14 pm |
        • JimK57

          Capt. Suicide is the way to go? I don't understand that leap.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:16 pm |
        • Ken Margo

          @Jim.................I'm trying to understand you. Are you saying God would allow a man that masterminded the worst terrorist attack in history to be in heaven? WOW. Does others in your church feel the way you do?

          August 15, 2013 at 7:20 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          Jim, stop being dense. You just said that NOTHING in this life matters and that EVERYONE goes to heaven. In your world view, there is EVERY reason to kill yourself and NOT ONE reason not to do it.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:22 pm |
        • truthprevails1

          Did Osama beg for forgiveness from your god instead of his god in the end? According to the bible man shall have no other god before the christian god.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:24 pm |
        • JimK57

          Ken, look at it this way. If there is life after this then death is not that big of a deal.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:36 pm |
        • JimK57

          Capt. This world is an amazing place. Why would I want to leave here.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:38 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          I don't see how it can be that amazing if nothing in it matters. And no matter how "amazing" it is, it's got nothing on heaven, right? Seriously, Jim, your world view makes suicide the most logical choice for any human being. I'd be careful with that thing, if I were you.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:41 pm |
        • Ken Margo

          @jim...........That's a pretty big IF. But, since EVERYBODY dies, I guess death isn't that big of a deal.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:43 pm |
        • skytag

          God does not interfere because there is no God. What happens here is all that matters. If you have some evidence to the contrary you'd like to share I'm happy to consider it.

          August 15, 2013 at 8:13 pm |
        • Ken Margo

          @sky..............Don't hold your breath!

          August 15, 2013 at 8:18 pm |
        • skytag

          @JimK57: "I have a very clear grasp of my religion."

          So do I. It's a fictional narrative based on a God whose existence is unsupported by any evidence whatsoever. You choose to believe this narrative because you like it better than the alternatives.

          August 15, 2013 at 8:26 pm |
        • skytag

          @JimK57: "Suicide is the way to go? I don't understand that leap."

          If you believe heaven is better than this life and everyone gets to go there then why would you want to live one more minute in this world than you absolutely had to be here?

          August 15, 2013 at 8:29 pm |
        • skytag

          @Ken Margo: "Are you saying God would allow a man that masterminded the worst terrorist attack in history to be in heaven? WOW."

          Osama bin Laden has nothing on Hitler or Stalin.

          In fact, one can argue that a good portion of WWII was basically a form of terrorism. Much of the bombing done in WWII was done primarily with the goal of killing civilians and causing widespread destruction with the hope it would destroy people's will to keep fighting. We would target cities in Japan and Germany and kill tens of thousands in a single raid, in city after city. It's nothing more than terrorism on a large, mechanized scale.

          I can't wait to get to Jim's heaven and see how Adolf and Eva are doing.

          August 15, 2013 at 8:41 pm |
        • Ken Margo

          @sky...............No argument from me. You've read the Christian fanatics hate for Muslims so I felt it would be an instant contradiction between Jim and others like him.

          August 15, 2013 at 8:48 pm |
      • Ken Margo

        @jim.................If god doesn't interfere in human lives, why pray to him?

        August 15, 2013 at 7:02 pm |
        • JimK57

          I think prayer is personal thing and people do it for many reasons. I do it to show my love because I am a part of him.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:12 pm |
        • Ken Margo

          @jim....................JimK57wrote:
          "Because god does not interfere in human lives. Everything that happens here does not matter in the big scheme of things."

          Based on YOUR words god ignores you. Should you pray to someone/thing that ignores you?

          August 15, 2013 at 7:16 pm |
        • JimK57

          I do not need someone to hold my hand through life. You see I believe everything that happens to me is my responsibility. Again I stress EVERYTHING.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:20 pm |
        • Ken Margo

          @jim............You said yourself people pray for many reasons. Who said holding hands was one of them? If I'm going to heaven regardless of what I do (good or BAD) why should I believe? Why should I go to church? I want you to convince me.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:34 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Poe's law, but thanks for playing.

      August 15, 2013 at 7:14 pm |
    • skytag

      "Can there be any doubt about the strength and power of the Holy Spirit that pours out on God's elect keeping them secure in their faith amid such violence?"

      Absolutely. There is no evidence of any divine intervention whatsoever.

      "Every day I give thanks and praises to God for putting me in a time and place where the only persecution for my beliefs I must contend with is verbal or written, not physical or bodily, even though I know that final victory is sweeter for those believers who must face the harshest enemies."

      In other words, even you don't believe this claptrap. If you really believed the "final victory is sweeter for those believers who must face the harshest enemies" you wouldn't be glad you have no such enemies to face.

      August 15, 2013 at 8:10 pm |
  9. Apple Bush

    Here is a fun game on a slow night. Two people can play on the Belief Blog.

    First person says something about the Bible or other religious icon or opinion, then the other person will respond but announce the opposite of what the first person said. Then the first person says the opposite of that word was, etc.. You win when Satan says so.

    August 15, 2013 at 6:10 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      The first thing you will find out is that you need more rules.

      August 15, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
  10. Apple Bush

    I wonder how many people have already posted, "He hates those cans! Get away from the cans!"

    August 15, 2013 at 5:48 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      *or words to that effect.

      August 15, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
  11. axby

    Muslims burn churches and kill Christians. Then they accuse civilized people of being "Islamophobes".

    August 15, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Christians have a long history of burning churches and killing anyone they think is a threat to them, or they think they are superior to....see the resemblance?

      August 15, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
      • Segoy

        Nice fallacy there Rich, trying to ignore bad behavior by pointing out other people's bad behavior.

        August 16, 2013 at 7:25 am |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      "We're right, we have the truth; you're wrong, you don't have the truth. We don't mind dying for our religion, so we have no problem killing you for yours."

      Sounds like most fundamentalists to me, regardless of what invisible sky wizard is being touted.

      August 15, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
    • skytag

      The Nazis burned synagogues and killed anyone who was in their way, and most Nazis were Christians.

      August 15, 2013 at 8:51 pm |
      • Camus's Sisyphus

        That's an association fallacy skytag. Try again.

        August 15, 2013 at 8:54 pm |
        • skytag

          Stop trying so hard to look smart. It's having the opposite effect. What I said was not even close to an association fallacy. I was only pointing out that Christians have been known to burn churches and kill people based on their religion.

          The Nazis obviously weren't a Christian organization, but I didn't suggest they were. They were, however, able to brainwash Christians in large numbers to engage in some decidedly un-Christ-like behavior, more evidence that Christianity is a fraud.

          August 15, 2013 at 11:51 pm |
        • Camus's Sisyphus

          "An association fallacy is an inductive informal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and honor by association. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion."

          Yeah...sooo....about your association fallacy, I think you were using the guilt by association variety. I mean, you could have chosen any organization that had christians within it but you chose the villains of the 20th century...nice, well done.

          August 16, 2013 at 7:31 am |
  12. Arnold

    Muslims terrorists!

    August 15, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
  13. Vic

    Christians are constantly persecuted and under attack in those parts of the world. Darfur in Sudan is a prime example along with Coptic Christians in Egypt. It is a "war of ideologies."

    August 15, 2013 at 5:02 pm |
    • Ron

      Sadly that is the truth.

      August 15, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Atheists are constantly under attack and persecuted here, simply because the christians outnumber us, and they believe they are right and everyone should believe what they believe....what is your point?

      August 15, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
      • Vic

        Persecution in those countries and ideologies is on a different scale, it involves death!

        August 15, 2013 at 5:31 pm |
        • evolvedDNA

          Vic. sadly we are experiencing god wars..you will never admit that your god or prophet is false, and the Muslims will never admit the same of theirs. Despite the lack of any evidence of any of any the gods existing, or any of the stories having any basis in reality, the whole mess is a a serious danger to society. Both religions feel they have the upper hand, and that the "rules" in the books supersede those of human society. explain to us how this is a great position the world at this time? religions are the most divisive tool devised by humanity..

          August 15, 2013 at 9:34 pm |
        • Vic

          Well, I am a firm believer that as a Christian I am saved by the Grace of God through Faith ALONE in Jesus Christ as Lord and personal Savior (Salvation) AND APART from the Law (Mosaic Law.) That alone sets Christianity apart from Islam which enforces a strict Law for redemption. That Law of redemption obligates inhabitants of the earth to convert or be executed! That Law sentences any one who renounces Islam to death! That Law requires Muslims to spread Islam by the sword if necessary!

          On the contrary, Christianity teaches the "Golden Rule" and it's only commandment is Love while not forcing any soul to convert by the sword or any other means!

          August 15, 2013 at 10:23 pm |
        • Vic

          "its"

          August 15, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
        • evolvedDNA

          Vic. well that was not always the cease was it ? Christianity most certainly torchered , harassed, and murdered those who it felt did not follow the golden rule..think of "witches", atheists, heretics. It still harasses those who do not conform like the gay folks. Regardless your belief is just that no basis other than tradition and the fact you were born to christian parents. Christianity uses fear to keep all in line. You still are required to follow a book of dubious origins, as are the other religions. You show the deep divide that exists, and i see no hope while the chasm is as large as it is. I know the Muslims are by far currently more aggressive in promotion of their brand of ignorance, but you had your time in the sun as well

          August 15, 2013 at 11:28 pm |
    • Arnold

      In Muslim countries no minorities are safe. Muslims terrorists.

      August 15, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
      • Vic

        In Muslim countries, non-Muslims are not safe, that's right!

        August 15, 2013 at 5:36 pm |
        • evolvedDNA

          Vic ..any place on earth is not safe from any religion. I am not surprised, unfortunately, by the total hatred and lack of cooperation between the religious groups..Each strive to be and try to be the victim to justify the appalling death and violence they inflict in the name of their god on the others.

          August 15, 2013 at 9:40 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Too bad the Copts threw the Greek Orthodox Byzantines under the bus to let the Muslims into Alexandria in 641.

      August 15, 2013 at 7:57 pm |
    • skytag

      Real Christians welcome persecution.

      August 15, 2013 at 8:52 pm |
      • True Scotsman

        I think you get it.

        August 15, 2013 at 8:56 pm |
  14. Reality

    Only for the eyes of sisters and brothers of Islam:

    From the studies of Armstrong, Rushdie, Hirsi Ali, Richardson and Bayhaqi----–

    The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:

    ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

    Are you ready?

    Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

    The First Five of the 77 Branches:

    "1. Belief in Allah"

    aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your self-cleansing neurons.

    "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

    Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

    "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

    A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

    "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

    Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

    Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

    Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

    "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings
    be upon him) alone."

    Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

    Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

    Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.

    Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism..

    From Google Translate:

    من الدراسات من أرمسترونغ، رشدي، هيرسي علي، ريتشاردسون والبيهقي ----–

    في خمس خطوات لأبطل تأثير 1400 سنة من الأساطير الإسلامية:

    (-خطوات اتخاذ أقل من دقيقتين لإنهاء-ببساطة مدهشة، دقيقتين لإحلال السلام والعقلانية إلى أكثر من مليار فقدت النفوس لا تقدر بثمن!)

    هل أنت مستعد؟

    استخدام "الفروع الإسلامية 77 من" الإيمان "مجموعة الإمام البيهقي المترجمة كنقطة انطلاق. في ذلك، وهو ما يفسر الفضائل الأساسية التي تعكس صحيح" الإيمان "(إيمان) من خلال الآيات القرآنية ذات الصلة، وأحاديث نبوية." أي ملخص لطيفة من المعتقدات القرآن والإسلامية.

    الخمسة الأولى من الفروع 77:

    "1. الإيمان بالله"

    كما يعرف أيضا باسم الله، الرب، زيوس، الرب، الطبيعة الأم، وما إلى ذلك يجب أن تضاف إلى الخلايا العصبية التطهير الذاتي الخاص.

    "2. إلى الاعتقاد بأن كل شيء غيرها مما كان الله غير موجود. بعد ذلك، الله سبحانه وتعالى خلق هذه الأشياء، وبعد ذلك جاءوا إلى حيز الوجود."

    التطور والانفجار الكبير أو "غي ب G-NAB" (عند بدء الكون لإعادة تدوير) هي أكثر ترجيحا وينبغي أن تدرج في "المندرجة" في سبيل الله إذا كنت لا تزال تشكل "بجمعية العقارات، tionist".

    "3. إلى الاعتقاد في وجود الملائكة."

    A بندا رئيسيا لتطهير الخلايا العصبية. الملائكة / دي VILS هي الإبداعات الأسطورية من الحضارات القديمة، على سبيل المثال HITT خائبي، لشرح / تعريف الأحداث الطبيعية، والاتصالات مع آلهتهم، والطيور الكبيرة، والرياح المفاجئة، وحماة خلال الليالي المظلمة، وما إلى ذلك لا "ثينجيس افسح المجال ل جميلة / UG-LY" بزيارة أي وقت مضى أو تحدثت إلى محمد، يسوع، مريم أو يوسف أو جو سميث. اليوم سوف نصنف الملائكة كما F-airies و "القصدير كير تكون LLS". تصنف الحديثة دو VILS مثل دي مونس هيئة اجتثاث mented.

    "4. إلى الاعتقاد بأن جميع الكتب السماوية التي تم إرسالها إلى الأنبياء مختلفة صحيحا. ومع ذلك، وبصرف النظر عن القرآن، كل الكتب الأخرى ليست صالحة بعد الآن."

    ومن البنود الرئيسية في حذفها. لا يوجد كتب في ولاية روح السماء (إذا كان هناك واحد) فقط حيث لم تعد هناك ملائكة لكتابة / نشر / توزيعها. القرآن، OT، NT وما هي ببساطة الكتب التي كتبت من قبل البشر للبشر.

    اخترعت الأنبياء من قبل الكتبة القديمة عادة للحفاظ على الجماهير غير المتعلمة في الخط. اليوم ونحن ندعو لهم فرز الأصوات للتناغم.

    النبوءات كما invali مؤرخة من قبل الطبيعية / الله / الله الهدايا من الإرادة الحرة والمستقبل.

    "5. إلى الاعتقاد بأن جميع الأنبياء صحيحا. ومع ذلك، ونحن مأمورون اتباع النبي محمد (عليه الصلاة والسلام
    صلى الله عليه وسلم) وحده ".

    قضى محمد ثلاثين يوما "الصيام" (أسطورة رمضان) في كهف الساخن قبل أول اتصال له مع الله الملقب الخ الله عبر "ممتزوجات افسح المجال ل جميلة". الحس السليم يتطلب حذف الخلايا العصبية من # 5. # 5 هو أيضا المصدر الرئيسي للالاسلامي VI-olence أي تحول محمد "سريع، يحركها الجوع" hallu-cinations إلى واقع فظيع لغير المؤمنين.

    المشي هذه خمس خطوات، ونحن نضمن الانتعاش الكامل من الطرق الإسلامية الخاصة بك!!

    للأسف، لا توجد العديد من المعلقين مسلم / القراء على هذا بلوق لذلك "مدة دقيقتين" العلاج هو عدم الحصول على لأولئك الذين في حاجة إليها. إذا كان لديك صديق مسلم، ترسل له نسخة وتساعد في إنقاذ العالم.

    تتوفر خطوات مماثلة في طلبك للحصول على deprogramming الأساطير المسيحية واليهودية والبوذية والهندوسية والوثنية ..

    August 15, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
  15. Dyslexic doG

    this is how atheists feel in America. Christian malice poisons our lives every day.

    August 15, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
    • A Conversation

      Christians are torching atheists houses of atheism?

      August 15, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        There are countless ways your bronze age voodoo affects my life and my family's life every day. You suppress science, you oppress women. You bully and badger anyone not believing as you do. The list goes on and on ...

        Areas where legislation is based wholly or partially on the Bible.
        1. the laws still on the books in several states preventing an atheist from holding office.
        2. Laws that try and limit the teaching of evolution in school.
        3. Laws that limit access to contraceptives.
        4. Laws that limit a woman's right to choose.
        5. Laws that limit gay rights.
        6. Laws that limit immunization against HPV.

        the list goes on and on ...

        August 15, 2013 at 4:53 pm |
        • Reality

          When condoms cost less than 50 cents/each, one assumes laws limiting "free" contraceptives is not an issue.

          Then there is this: (only for the new members of this blog)

          The reality of se-x, abortion, contraception and STD/HIV control: – from an agnostic guy who enjoys intelligent se-x-

          Note: Some words hyphenated to defeat an obvious word filter. ...

          The Brutal Effects of Stupidity:

          : The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the Pill (8.7% actual failure rate) and male con-dom (17.4% actual failure rate) have led to the large rate of abortions and S-TDs in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the Pill or co-ndoms properly and/or use safer methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.- Failure rate statistics provided by the Gut-tmacher Inst-itute. Unfortunately they do not give the statistics for doubling up i.e. using a combination of the Pill and a condom.

          Added information before making your next move:

          "Se-xually transmitted diseases (STDs) remain a major public health challenge in the United States. While substantial progress has been made in preventing, diagnosing, and treating certain S-TDs in recent years, CDC estimates that approximately 19 million new infections occur each year, almost half of them among young people ages 15 to 24.1 In addition to the physical and psy-ch-ological consequences of S-TDs, these diseases also exact a tremendous economic toll. Direct medical costs as-sociated with STDs in the United States are estimated at up to $14.7 billion annually in 2006 dollars."
          See also: http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/26/opinion/bolan-se-xual-health/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

          And from:
          "Adolescents don’t think or-al se-x is something to worry about (even though is becoming a major cause of throat cancer)," said Bonnie Halpern-Felsher professor of pediatrics at the University of California, San Francisco. "They view it as a way to have intimacy without having 's-ex.'" (Maybe it should be called the Bill Clinton Syndrome !!)

          Obviously, political leaders in both parties, Planned Parenthood, parents, the "stupid part of the USA" and the educational system have failed miserably on many fronts.

          The most effective forms of contraception, ranked by "Perfect use":
          – (Abstinence, 0% failure rate)
          – (Masturbation, mono or mutual, 0% failure rate)
          Followed by:
          One-month injectable and Implant (both at 0.05 percent)
          Vasectomy and IUD (Mirena) (both at 0.1 percent)
          The Pill, Three-month injectable, and the Patch (all at 0.3 percent)
          Tubal sterilization (at 0.5 percent)
          IUD (Copper-T) (0.6 percent)
          Periodic abstinence (Post-ovulation) (1.0 percent)
          Periodic abstinence (Symptothermal) and Male condom (both at 2.0 percent)
          Periodic abstinence (Ovulation method) (3.0 percent)

          Every other method ranks below these, including Withdrawal (4.0), Female condom (5.0), Diaphragm (6.0), Periodic abstinence (calendar) (9.0), the Sponge (9.0-20.0, depending on whether the woman using it has had a child in the past), Cervical cap (9.0-26.0, with the same caveat as the Sponge), and Spermicides (18.0).

          August 15, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
        • Segoy

          1. the laws still on the books in several states preventing an atheist from holding office."
          This affects your life and your family's life every day?

          2. Laws that try and limit the teaching of evolution in school.
          This affects your life and your family's life every day?

          3. Laws that limit access to contraceptives.
          This affects your life and your family's life every day?

          4. Laws that limit a woman's right to choose.
          This affects your life and your family's life every day?

          5. Laws that limit gay rights.
          This affects your life and your family's life every day?

          6. Laws that limit immunization against HPV.
          This affects your life and your family's life every day?

          If you answer no to all of these, forgive me if I call you a whiner.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:51 pm |
        • Richard Cranium

          segoy
          Thats the best response you have? They don't effect you everyday so you are a whiner?

          Let's pass a whole bunch of laws, restricting what christians can and can't do. Not everyone, Just christians. But since they don't effect you each and every day, that is OK by you, right?

          August 15, 2013 at 6:04 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          Segoy, Daily impact is not the correct measure. A lifetime of ignorance is not trivial. The consequences of not getting HPV immunization could be no life to impact or living with chronic pervasive illness.

          August 15, 2013 at 6:40 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          Meh.. Christards like Segoy won't ever get it until it happens to them. Pass a bunch of laws restricting what Christards can and can't do. Let 'em whine and then hit them with the 'ol "But it don't affect you EVERY day, Christard!" and fvck what they think, then. Should've caught on when it was "free," christard.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:05 pm |
        • Segoy

          Richard Cranium, I was just using his own words. So if you have a problem, talk to him.

          In Santa we trust, I agree.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:10 pm |
        • Segoy

          Cpt. Obvious, you are a idiot.

          Please look up the very christian Martin Niemöller on this subject.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:13 pm |
        • Segoy

          The extremely slow like ol Capt don't know the difference between the right-wing conservative and the everyday christian. People like him just switch them in and out as it suits them. Pitiful.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:15 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          Why? I'd rather not become as dumb as you, so you'll need to convince me with some sort of logical argument. Do you think you can manage that? I mean, you can't even grasp the stupidity of your primary claim!

          August 15, 2013 at 7:16 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          Oh, quit your whining, Christard. The laws that restrict christard's freedoms will only be in effect on Tuesdays and Fridays, so it won't affect you every day. We'll use your words above for the reasoning on why it's not so big of a deal because it's not an every day thing. You'll be a hero!

          August 15, 2013 at 7:19 pm |
        • Segoy

          Cpt. Obvious, wow you are at the level of a middle schooler aren't you? "Christard? Perhaps you could please point out where I have ever said what my faith is? Can you? No, of course not because you have no idea what you are blabbering on about.

          The above commentor, who does not need your protection, claimed that his personal life was being damaged by christianity. However, he cites damage that is being done to larger groups. I merely wanted to know if those complaints applied to his personal life in any way or if he was trying to claim some form of group suffering. Many atheist sheep tend to whine of group pains when they don't suffer at all.

          And in no way have I supported any form of segregation you twit. NONE. That is your delusional mind going overtime again. Seek help.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:26 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          Your reasoning above is pure sh!t, christard. That's the point that you can't hide. Yeah, you can explain why you said something, but you can't show how what you said was anything other then completely asinine. Where are your LOGICAL arguments? Do you know of any? Have you seen one before? Do you know what they look like? And instead of playing sily semantics, why not just state what you believe? Are you a christard or aren't you?

          August 15, 2013 at 7:29 pm |
        • Segoy

          Change your name to Cpt. Fallacy, you keep using ad hominems as if they are going out of style.
          I've made my arguments as clear as they can be. I am sorry you simply are to simple to understand them.
          If you have an issue you wish to comment on in a mature manner, please attempt to do so.
          Otherwise, you are beyond help. So sad.

          August 15, 2013 at 9:00 pm |
        • Doobs

          As a woman, some of those laws did affect me personally every day. But that's not really the issue. Laws that favor one group over another are wrong and a detriment to society as a whole.

          I don't have children, so I shouldn't care about the quality of education that children receive?

          I'm not black, so I shouldn't care if blacks are discriminated against?

          I'm not gay, so I shouldn't care if gays are discriminated against?

          I'm past my child bearing years, so I shouldn't care about the availability of contraception and the right to choose for women who are able to get pregnant?

          I'm not planning to run for office, so I shouldn't care about whether someone else is allowed to hold office based on their lack of belief in a deity?

          How ridiculous. Religion continues to suppress human progress at all levels.

          August 19, 2013 at 8:28 pm |
        • Segoy

          The original commentor implied that he was directly affected by his list of woes. I just wanted clarification.

          "Religion continues to suppress human progress at all levels."

          No, it doesn't.
          Curious, what do you think we are suppose to progress toward?

          August 19, 2013 at 8:54 pm |
        • Doobs

          You didn't ask for clarification. You made the ridiculous claim that unless one is personally and daily affected by unfair and discriminatory legislation based on religious beliefs, they are a whiner.

          August 20, 2013 at 2:38 am |
      • Segoy

        The answer is no, they haven't.

        August 15, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • Eric

      You should move to N.Korea if you are unhappy here.

      August 15, 2013 at 4:59 pm |
      • truthprevails1

        You live in a secular nation. There is a reason Atheists feel the same in America and it is justified. While christians may not be carrying out direct war on Atheists, they certainly do try to impose their beliefs on them and in every or almost every aspect of the public.

        August 15, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
    • Doobs

      You didn't ask for clarification. You made the ridiculous claim that unless one is personally and daily affected by unfair and discriminatory legislation based on religious beliefs, they are a whiner.

      August 20, 2013 at 2:34 am |
      • Doobs

        Oops, misfire.

        August 20, 2013 at 2:37 am |
  16. Bill Deacon

    Can't someone just explain to Egyptian Christians that persecution is just a figment of their delusional imagination?

    August 15, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • .

      Yeah, having their places of worship torched is all in their minds.
      Are you always this stupid or is this just a special day?

      August 15, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      They choose to be xtians in a mooslum nation. Oh well.

      August 15, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
      • Segoy

        Hmmm, I wonder if you would be so agreeable if someone who felt they were being persecuted for their non-religious beliefs would be told, "They choose to be atheist in a christian dominated nation. Oh well."

        August 15, 2013 at 5:18 pm |
        • evolvedDNA

          Segoy Christians and Muslims act out the fantasies they believe that their god has given them.. each is correct and cannot be wrong see a conflict looming? also the last time I checked both the US and Canada, along with Europe were secular.

          August 15, 2013 at 9:46 pm |
        • Segoy

          Note that I said "christian dominated" and not a christian theocracy.
          Also, people find reasons for conflicts all the time on how strongly they feel about a thing. Some people of faith will act out on that faith. Some will find their purpose to act out in politics, activitism or even allow scienctific research to do morally questionable things.

          August 16, 2013 at 7:37 am |
    • Johnny

      In this instance they are actually being persecuted, here in America, however, not so much.

      August 15, 2013 at 4:26 pm |
    • truthprevails1

      They're in a largely Theocratic Nation. This is what happens when one group thinks they have the correct god and the other disagrees. It's wrong all the way around.

      August 15, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • truthprevails1

      I base my claim of the Theocratic Nation off of the fact that their constitution only guarantee's freedom of religion for Believers in any of the three Abrahamic religions – Islam, Christianity and Judaism.
      I know wiki is not always reliable but this seems to explain it...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Egypt#Freedom_of_religion

      August 15, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
      • Dippy

        It's "guarantees," not "guarantee's."

        August 15, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
        • truthprevails1

          Oh Dippy, geez making mistakes is somewhat entertaining...it's the only time we hear from you.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:46 pm |
        • Dippy

          Just doing my job.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
        • truthprevails1

          🙂

          August 15, 2013 at 6:01 pm |
    • evolvedDNA

      Bill.. the entire problem is perpetrated by delusions of gods in he first place.. You would never admit that the Muslims were right, and your religion is false ..you have evidence, right, that JC made your religion the real one? They have the same evidence ! that says you are wrong and they are right. see a problem in these positions ? As an atheist i think it is sad and appalling to see destruction of property, and the death of so many human beings.. but until we come together as a species and put our efforts in to human endeavors and not waste energies on alien worship I see no solution.

      August 15, 2013 at 9:59 pm |
      • evolvedDNA

        opps should have been a reply to Bill Deacon.. my bad.

        August 15, 2013 at 10:01 pm |
  17. MUD MAN - ROBS MARK

    CITIZENS SELL TO HUMAN RACE STUDIES.
    POLITICS IN MASIV ASESSINTIONS.
    OBAMA, HARPER, SANTOS, KIRSHNER KFC MONSANTO, RUSEF, SPAIN KING, MERKEL, THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND.

    NARCOTRAFIC TROUTH SATELITAL SURVILLANCE.

    http://www.mudpgi.blog.com.

    August 15, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
  18. Lycidas

    When anyone is being hurt or their rights impeded because of how they feel or how thye want to express themselves in their lives...it's plain wrong.

    August 15, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
    • truthprevails1

      Really? Do you feel that way when LGBT are having their rights stepped on by christians or when women's rights are being stepped on?

      August 15, 2013 at 6:51 pm |
      • Lycidas

        Yes you idiot.

        August 15, 2013 at 7:16 pm |
        • truthprevails1

          I asked a question...you are the idiot for being such an ass in the way you answered it!

          August 15, 2013 at 7:28 pm |
        • Lycidas

          You make a stupid remark, guessing that I would not agree and you are the one that play the offended card? Grow up.

          August 15, 2013 at 9:03 pm |
        • skytag

          So much for respecting people who express themselves as they see fit.

          August 15, 2013 at 11:55 pm |
        • Lycidas

          I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings unnecessarily or impede on your rights somehow sky? If not, then you need to grow up and lose this hero complex you have for trying to save those I'm commenting on.

          August 16, 2013 at 7:48 am |
  19. Colin

    Did you know that Christians REALLY believe that a being powerful enough to create the entire Universe and its billions of galaxies impregnated a Greco-Roman Jewish virgin with himself, so he could give birth to himself, then sacrifice himself to himself to forgive the original sin of a couple we now all know never existed?

    I swear, it's true. I'm not making this up. AND, it's the grown adults that believe this! It's not just a story they tell their little ones.

    Crazy.

    August 15, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • Troll Spotter

      Do you know that Colin is really just a troll? I swear, it's true. I'm not making this up. AND, he's suppose to be a grown adult that believes that his comments matter beyond it's trollish purposes!

      Crazy.

      August 15, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
      • Colin

        My apparent personality flaws aside, do you disagree with what I said? I ask because it seems to me that my comment was factually very accurate.

        August 15, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        don't worry Colin, Spotty accuses everyone who doesn't agree with him of being a troll. he thinks he's very clever.

        August 15, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
      • My Dog is a jealous Dog

        You have no intention of contributing anything of worth – do you? You just want to accuse people of being trolls without having to address anything that is said. I am not offended by what other people believe – I am offended by what people do and how they act. You my friend are being offensive.

        August 15, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
        • .

          cry a little louder why don'cha?
          remember all this when a religious person plasters something random

          August 15, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • A Conversation

      I was going to respond with something sarcastic, but I simply can't top Troll Spotter. I'm out.

      August 15, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
      • Colin

        Ditto. What did I get wrong? I'll bet you can't answer so you will eiather (i) not respond; or (ii) change the topic.

        August 15, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
        • Athy

          I'm betting it's (i), he won't respond. Any takers?

          August 15, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
        • A Conversation

          Athy loses! Colin, Christ's sacrifice wasn't to absolve us of Adam's sin, it was to absolve us of our own (or are you without sin?)

          August 15, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          @conversation ... I think I like the santa story better than your one.

          August 15, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
        • Terry

          Why is it that an omnipotent creature needed to have its "son" die to "save" anything, or to fix sins? Why not just get the job done without all that unnecessary fooforah? If your "god" is omnipotent, that is....

          August 15, 2013 at 4:42 pm |
        • Colin

          "Christ's sacrifice wasn't to absolve us of Adam's sin, it was to absolve us of our own (or are you without sin?)"

          Well, some Christians believe this (but only after Adam and eve was proven beyond all sane doubt to be myth). So, I guess you would agree that Christians REALLY believe that a being powerful enough to create the entire Universe and its billions of galaxies impregnated a Greco-Roman Jewish virgin with himself, so he could give birth to himself, then sacrifice himself to himself to forgive what he considered unacceptable human behavior."

          That's just about as crazy as what I originally said.

          August 15, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
        • A Conversation

          On a serious note, your painting with too broad a brush which taints your argument. Christians believe God is comprised of three–father, son and holy spirit–combined yet each unique. I simply can't explain that party any better, perhaps others can (and I'll concede its an enigma to me–but its academic to me because "how" it works is not relevant to Christ's life, teachings, death or resurrection). So is God sacrificing himself to himself? I don't think so...I think the pain Jesus felt on the cross was not shared by the father or the spirit. Same argument goes for the birth. As for the Adam and Eve story–you haven't proven to me that original sin does not exist. But, again, I see it as an academic issue.

          August 15, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
        • A Conversation

          D'oh! "You're painting" not your painting.

          August 15, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
        • Colin

          I haven't "proved" to you that original sin does not exist? I can easily prove to you that the Adam and Eve stroy is a myth. First and most obviously is the fossil record. The fossil record is much, much more than just dinosaurs. Indeed, dinosaurs only get the press because of their size, but they make up less than 1% of the entire fossil record. Life had been evolving on Earth for over 3 thousand million years before dinosaurs evolved and has gone on evolving for 65 million years after the Chicxulub meteor likely wiped them out.

          The fossil record includes the Stromatolites, colonies of prokaryotic bacteria, that range in age going back to about 3 billion years, the Ediacara fossils from South Australia, widely regarded as among the earliest multi-celled organisms, the Cambrian species of the Burgess shale in Canada (circa – 450 million years ago) the giant scorpions of the Silurian Period, the giant, wingless insects of the Devonian period, the insects, amphibians, reptiles, fishes, clams, crustaceans of the Carboniferous Period, the many precursors to the dinosaurs, the 700 odd known species of dinosaurs themselves, the subsequent dominant mammals, including the saber tooth tiger, the mammoths and hairy rhinoceros of North America and Asia, the fossils of early man in Africa and the Neanderthals of Europe.

          The fossil record shows a consistent and worldwide evolution of life on Earth dating back to about 3,500,000,000 years ago. There are literally millions of fossils that have been recovered, of thousands of different species and they are all located where they would be in the geological record if life evolved slowly over billions of years. None of them can be explained by a 6,000 year old Earth and Noah’s flood. Were they all on the ark? What happened to them when it docked?

          A Tyrannosaurus Rex ate a lot of food – meat- which means its food would itself have to have been fed, like the food of every other carnivore on the ark for the entire 360 odd days Noah supposedly spent on the ark. T-Rex was not even the largest carnivorous dinosaur we know of. Spinosaurus, Argentinosaurus and Carcharodontosaurus were all larger and ate more even meat. Even they were not large enough to bring down the largest sauropods we know of, many species of which weighed in at close to 100 tons and were about 100 feet long. A bit of “back of the envelope” math quickly shows that “Noah’s Ark” would actually have to have been an armada of ships larger than the D-Day invasion force, manned by thousands and thousands of people – and this is without including the World’s 300,000 current species of plants, none of which could walk merrily in twos onto the ark.

          Then, of course, there are the various races of human beings. There were no Sub-Saharan Africans, Chinese, Australian Aboriginals, blonde haired Scandinavians, Pygmies or Eskimos on the Ark. Where did they come from?

          Second, there are those little things we call oil, natural gas and other fossil fuels. Their mere existence is another independent and fatal blow to the creationists. Speak to any geologist who works for Exxon Mobil, Shell or any of the thousands of mining, oil or natural gas related companies that make a living finding fossil fuels. They will tell you these fossil fuels take millions of years to develop from the remains of large, often Carboniferous Period forests, in the case of coal, or tiny marine creatures in the case of oil. For the fossils to develop into oil or coal takes tens or hundreds of millions of years of “slow baking” under optimum geological conditions. That’s why they are called “fossil fuels.” Have a close look at coal, you can often see the fossilized leaves in it. The geologists know exactly what rocks to look for fossil fuels in, because they know how to date the rocks to tens or hundreds of millions of years ago. Creationists have no credible explanation for this.

          Third, most of astronomy and cosmology would be wrong if the creationists were right. In short, as Einstein showed, light travels at a set speed. Space is so large that light from distant stars takes many years to reach the Earth. In some cases, this is millions or billions of years. The fact that we can see light from such far away stars means it began its journey billions of years ago. The Universe must be billions of years old. We can currently see galaxies whose light left home 13, 700,000,000 years ago. Indeed, on a clear night, one can see the collective, misty light of many stars more than 6,000 light years away with the naked eye, shining down like tiny accusatorial witnesses against the nonsense of creationism.

          Fourth, we have not just carbon dating, but also all other methods used by scientists to date wood, rocks, fossils, and other artifacts. These comprehensively disprove the Bible’s claims. They include uranium-lead dating, potassium-argon dating as well as other non-radioactive methods such as pollen dating, dendrochronology and ice core dating. In order for any particular rock, fossil or other artifact to be aged, generally two or more samples are dated independently by two or more laboratories in order to ensure an accurate result. If results were random, as creationists claim, the two independent results would rarely agree. They generally do. They regularly reveal ages much older than Genesis. Indeed, the Earth is about 750,000 times older than the Bible claims, the Universe about three times the age of the Earth.

          Fifth, the relatively new field of DNA mapping not only convicts criminals, it shows in undeniable, full detail how we differ from other life forms on the planet. For example, about 98.4% of human DNA is identical to that of chimpanzees, about 97% of human DNA is identical to that of gorillas, and slightly less again of human DNA is identical to the DNA of monkeys. This gradual divergence in DNA can only be rationally explained by the two species diverging from a common ancestor, and coincides perfectly with the fossil record. Indeed, scientists can use the percentage of DNA that two animal share (such as humans and bears, or domestic dogs and wolves) to get an idea of how long ago the last common ancestor of both species lived. It perfectly corroborates the fossil record and is completely independently developed.

          Sixth, the entire field of historical linguistics would have to be rewritten to accommodate the Bible. This discipline studies how languages develop and diverge over time. For example, Spanish and Italian are very similar and have a recent common “ancestor” language, Latin, as most people know. However, Russian is quite different and therefore either did not share a common root, or branched off much earlier in time. No respected linguist anywhere in the World traces languages back to the Tower of Babel, the creationists’ simplistic and patently absurd explanation for different languages. Indeed, American Indians, Australian Aboriginals, “true” Indians, Chinese, Mongols, Ja.panese, Sub-Saharan Africans and the Celts and other tribes of ancient Europe were speaking thousands of different languages thousands of years before the date creationist say the Tower of Babel occurred – and even well before the date they claim for the Garden of Eden.

          Seventh, lactose intolerance is also a clear vestige of human evolution. Most mammals only consume milk as infants. After infancy, they no longer produce the enzyme “lactase” that digests the lactose in milk and so become lactose intolerant. Humans are an exception and can drink milk as adults – but not all humans – some humans remain lactose intolerant. So which humans are no longer lactose intolerant? The answer is those who evolved over the past few thousand years raising cows. They evolved slightly to keep producing lactase as adults so as to allow the consumption of milk as adults. This includes most Europeans and some Africans, notably the Tutsi of Rwanda. On the other hand, most Chinese, native Americans and Aboriginal Australians, whose ancestors did not raise cattle, remain lactose intolerant.

          I could go on and elaborate on a number of other disciplines or facts that creationists have to pretend into oblivion to retain their faith, including the Ice Ages, cavemen and early hominids, much of microbiology, paleontology and archeology, continental drift and plate tectonics. Even large parts of medical research would be rendered unusable but for the fact that monkeys and mice share a common ancestor with us and therefore our fundamental cell biology and basic body architecture is identical to theirs.

          In short, and not surprisingly, the World’s most gifted evolutionary biologists, astronomers, cosmologists, geologists, archeologists, paleontologists, historians, modern medical researchers and linguists (and about 2,000 years of accu.mulated knowledge) are right and a handful of Iron Age Middle Eastern goat herders copying then extant mythology were wrong. Creationists aren’t just trying to swim upstream against the weight of scientific evidence; they are trying to ascend a waterfall.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:02 pm |
        • Athy

          Good post, Colin. Unfortunately the religies will either not read it, not understand it, or won't believe it.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
        • R.M. Goodswell

          Willful ignorance – they know he's right – but if they admitted it it'd mean their parents were wrong....and in the case of clergy, they'd have to find another line of work...something far more demanding than shoveling BS.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:20 pm |
        • .

          great copy/paste colin

          August 15, 2013 at 5:24 pm |
      • A Conversation

        Colin...wow, you type really fast! (That was sarcasm.)

        Your "Reality" based cut and past aside, I was addressing original sin, not necessarily the creation story. I'll man up and tell you that I don't know if God intend for us to believe it to be literal or a metaphor–but that doesn't bother me because, like the Trinity, it doesn't change Christ's life, teachings, etc. It also doesn't change the Bible–only how we should interpret it.

        August 15, 2013 at 5:20 pm |
        • Colin

          You realize that the Trinity God you believe in is not even mentioned in your Bible, right? Nowhere, from cover to cover, does the Bible mention the idea of the Holy Trinity. The Jewish Tanaka, or the “Old Testament” as Christians like to call it, obviously doesn’t have the Trinity God in it, because it was written before Jesus was born and by a faith who reject him as being a god. The entire New Testament was written between 50-150 CE, well before the Christian god was fully invented. The Christian holy trinity god was not developed until about 350 CE.

          One would think that, if your three sided god were true, the Bible would have at least mentioned him. I guess all it takes is for you to be told what a few pre-Dark Ages Christian theologians dreamed up and you will swallow it without question.

          Once again, it never ceases to amaze me some of the utter nonsense Christians believe.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:29 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          The Johannine Comma not withstanding: that was a brazen attempt to introduce the Trinity into the text.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:32 pm |
        • Colin

          Indeed Tom, Tom. At least one Medieval Christian scribe was a little more astute than A Conversation and realized how problematic that gaping ommission is for Christianity. It also never ceases to amaze me how ignorant many christians are of their own faith.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
        • Hur

          Never heard of "Trinity God", got any references of such a thing anywhere Colin?

          August 15, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
        • Colin

          Huh- the Holy Trinity. And no, there are no references to it – in the Bible at least. It is a later invention of Fourth and Fifth Century Christian theologians. In fact, one of the reasons Islam speciated off from Judeo-Christianity was that they found the idea of a Triurnal God too polytheistic for their taste.

          It is ironic that the Christian God developed too late to even be mentioned in the bible, though.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:40 pm |
        • R.M. Goodswell

          Catholicism (the trinity) and Mormons (the god head)

          August 15, 2013 at 5:40 pm |
        • Hur

          The Tanakh isn't mentioned in the Bible but does it not exist?
          Is a religion regulated to one text?
          Does a movement stop growing after the initial founder leaves or dies?

          Just some questions for curiousity sake.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:46 pm |
        • Dippy

          Regulated? Try relegated next time.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
        • Hur

          Dippy, my apparent spelling flaws aside, do you disagree with what I said? I ask because it seems to me that my questions were quite clear overall.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:19 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          Yeah, because when it comes to tough questions that cause cognitive dissonance, any excuse will do....

          There is exactcly ZERO proof of any gods, but why be concerned with that? Did you see the poor spelling of "exactly?" LOL!

          August 15, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
        • Segoy

          Wow, that's a shocker isn't it? Instead of actually trying to answer the questions, Oblivious shows his cowardness by making snide comments instead of answering them.

          August 15, 2013 at 7:29 pm |
    • Sue

      Colin, those were fine responses that you just made to "troll spotter" and "A Conversation". Thanks for being so reasonable and pleasant in the face of their rudeness.

      August 15, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
      • .

        suck-@ss

        August 15, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
      • A Conversation

        Yes Colin, thank you for being so reasonable and pleasant in your response to our sarcasm in response to your originating sarcasm. Sue, you don't have to kiss Colin's behind to make a point.

        August 15, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
        • Terry

          "A Conversation", you've already lost this battle. Move on, son. Put it behind you.

          August 15, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          @conversation ... weren't you leaving? begone!

          August 15, 2013 at 4:49 pm |
        • A Conversation

          How did I lose? Wasn't Colin's original post not reeking of sarcasm? Was my response not simply a like-kind exchange? Isn't Sue just being a kiss a.ss?

          August 15, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
        • Colin

          I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being very pointed. That is exactly what Christians believe (as you pretty much acknowledged). And that is crazy. Think about it for a moment. The creator of the entire Universe, including the 200 million human beings then alive, knocking up a Greco Roman Jewish Virgin to gruesomely sacrifice himself to himself. I guess, once you make the leap to believing in sky-fairies in the first place, you will believe anything.

          August 15, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
        • A Conversation

          See above...I didn't acknowledge anything. I simply addressed one point. I address the others in my subsequent post above.

          For you to say you were not being sarcastic is laughable.

          August 15, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
        • A Conversation

          Sarcasm aside...can't we at least agree Sue is a kiss as.s?

          August 15, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
        • Helen

          A Conversation, Sue's response was very appropriate. You should try to be more mature and learn from it.

          It takes guts to stand up to bullies, and Sue just did that. You just can't handle it, and you can now fairly be called both a coward and a particularly juvenile bully.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:06 pm |
        • Terry

          We can agree then, that "A Conversation" is a coward and a bully. Great stuff.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
      • A Conversation

        I've apparently been too rough on Sue...Sue, if I made you cry, I'm sorry.

        August 15, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
        • Dwayne

          I'd recommend that you take a time-out from posting for a while. Let your temper subside.

          August 15, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
  20. Brody in RI

    #pray for Egypt

    August 15, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      Prayer does nothing.

      August 15, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • truthprevails1

      You pray while the rest of the world figures out how to resolve it.

      August 15, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
1 2 3 4 5
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.