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August 21st, 2013
08:46 AM ET

Vatican to say next month when John Paul II, John XXIII will become saints

By Jason Hanna and Hada Messia, CNN

(CNN) - The Roman Catholic Church will announce next month the date when the late popes John Paul II and John XXIII will be canonized, Vatican Radio reported Wednesday.

The canonization dates for the two former pontiffs will be announced on September 30, the radio service reported, citing Cardinal Angelo Amato.

Pope Francis announced last month that his two 20th century predecessors would be declared saints.

John Paul was pope from 1978 until his death in 2005, drawing vast crowds as he crisscrossed the globe. The third-longest-serving pope in history, died at the age of 84 after suffering from Parkinson's disease, arthritis and other ailments for several years.

Pope John XXIII was famed for calling the Second Vatican Council in 1962, which ushered in great changes in the Roman Catholic Church's relationship with the modern world. He was pope from 1958 to 1963.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Catholic Church • Pope • Pope John Paul II • Vatican

soundoff (624 Responses)
  1. Lawrence

    Question... Ho.mo sapiens have supposedly been around for what, 200,000 years? OK, if you look at population growth on a graph for all of the years that we have data, and then project a line from that to "0" at 200,000 years ago, we see a staggering suppression of population growth for most of those 200,000 years. Actually, it looks like a "J" curve. Flat from 200,000 years ago to about the 1700's AD when population shoots almost straight up.

    What caused a suppression of almost 200,000 years of population growth?

    August 22, 2013 at 11:45 am |
    • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

      In the 1800s, medical science began to improve dramatically, as did dental hygiene (poor dental hygiene is directly related to heart problems). By the 1900s, medical science and the wider availability of medical care allowed many more people to live long lives.

      August 22, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      Also, the industrial revolution drastically increased the ammount of food that can be produced per acre of land per year. Agricultural science also helped by creating faster producing and more hardy crops which can feed much more people.

      Isn't science grand?

      August 22, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Isolation, availablitiy of food and medicines. There is a geometric increase as peoples proximity and nutrition levels rose, coupled with medical advances.

      Seriously, look into increasing your critical thinking abilities.

      August 22, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
      • Lawrence

        Richard, I asked a legitimate question, and you immediately resort to insult. That tells me a lot about you.

        I don't think that's the answer though... Have you seen this graph? There's no way that amount of population suppression can occur from what you call a lack of "food and medicines." Sure, they didn't have McDonald's or ObamaCare, but they didn't have "global warming" either, so I doubt there was THAT much of a food shortage.

        Looking into animal populations who do not and have never suffered from such a "J" curve in populations, they don't have McDonald's or ObamaCare either, and they seem to have thrived in the last "200,000" years...

        Or are you willing to say that the world's population of ALL animals were suppressed until the industrial revolution?

        August 22, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
        • Honey Badger Don't Care

          Humans are the only animal population that has had the opportunity to manipulate their surroundings to the extent that they can influence their growth as we have. Some animals have developed the ability to use tools to get food but not tractors and genetic hybridization.

          August 22, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          When was the last time you saw a lemur performing surgery or prescribing medication?

          August 22, 2013 at 12:54 pm |
        • Lawrence

          True, humans manipulate their environment... Which is exactly my point. From the beginning, man has had an advantage over all other animals, with the ability to reason and relate, as well as the tools that he devises for his survival. Even with vaccinations out of the picture, man has a tremendous advantage.

          I suppose that for 200,000 years they just couldn't figure out this whole breeding thing...

          August 22, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          Advantage in what sense? Compare humans to bacteria? In evolutionary terms, there's only going to be one winner.

          August 22, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          "From the beginning, man has had an advantage over all other animals" I do not think our ancestors would agree. The evidence they left behind shows us a very hard life where they were struggling to survive and trying not to be eaten by larger predators which is of course why humans developed close nit social groups for protection much like our primate cousins do today.

          August 22, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
        • A Frayed Knot

          "I suppose that for 200,000 years they just couldn't figure out this whole breeding thing..."

          Yep, it sure is a good thing that the Lord came along to give them a heads up:

          Genesis 30:37-39:
          Then Jacob took fresh sticks of poplar and almond and plane trees, and peeled white streaks in them, exposing the white of the sticks. He set the sticks that he had peeled in front of the flocks in the troughs, that is, the watering places, where the flocks came to drink. And since they bred when they came to drink, the flocks bred in front of the sticks and so the flocks brought forth striped, speckled, and spotted.

          August 22, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          Jacob has some serious fetish issues.

          August 22, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
        • Lawrence

          "The evidence they left behind shows us a very hard life where they were struggling to survive and trying not to be eaten by larger predators"

          Sounds a bit like Wall Street... Just a quick Google image search for the graph shows what I'm talking about though... Yeah, population skyrockets after the 19-20th century, but before then, the line should project a zero point somewhere around 2400 BC. It's by forcing the zero point to 200,000 BC that makes it so flat. What happened around 2400 BC that caused populations to begin to take off?

          August 22, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          Why exactly should the zero point be near 2400 BC?

          PS
          If you say anything about a flood, I will laugh so hard that I will urinate a little.

          August 22, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
        • Lawrence

          I'm sorry Dave, by just projecting the graph line from the data that we have.

          August 22, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
        • Lawrence

          I'm Sorry Dave, I didn't say anything about the flood, but now that you mention that, I live in the mountains of North Georgia, and I've always wondered why there's a layer of seashells in the dirt on top the mountain where I live..

          August 22, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          I've seen various forms of that graph many times. I've never noticed 2400 BC as being significant. Be more specific, what data points to the zero point being at 2400 BC?

          August 22, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
        • Lawrence

          I'm Sorry Dave...
          Step 1 – print the graph
          Step 2 – draw a line following the crests of population growth to the point where actual data stops
          Step 3 – project that line along the same direction the graph was headed when data stops
          The result is a zero point somewhere in that vicinity.

          I'm not being sarcastic when I put it that way... I'm writing techical manuals at work today, so I'm in a "step-by-step" frame of mind...

          August 22, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
        • bibletruths107

          An apology is something that many on this board do not use. Yet it is powerful because it can bring peace. It is no wonder that it is a quality that is promoted in the bible. So is the golden rule. Treat others the way you want to be treated. Imagine what a different world this would be if we would just follow those two examples.

          August 22, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
        • Lawrence

          ...I suppose its a question of what assumptions are we making in order to project a flat line back 200,000 years.

          August 22, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
        • Johnny

          Lawrence it's called plate tectonics. Look it up.

          August 22, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
        • Richard Cranium

          I did not mean it as an insult. You ask questions that anyone who knows how to use critical thinking should be able to answer on their own.
          If you are trying to use these questions as a lead in to some other angle on a different topic, then perhaps you should also look into techniques for debating. If you took it as an insult, it means to me that my statement was even more accurate.

          August 22, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
        • Micael

          If I had to speculate, I would say cities, although that belies Egypt completely.

          If you are going to try and posit anything else, stop beating around the bush and just say what's on your mind, Lawrence.

          August 22, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          Actually, looking at the graph, I see what you mean. Around 2,700 BCE, it does level off, but that doesn't necessarily mean it should reach zero point. It's just that the decrease isn't evident on a graph of this scale. There are other estimates of global population other than this graph.

          http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population_estimates
          http://www.scottmanning.com/content/year-by-year-world-population-estimates/

          The graph in the second link actually gives a better indication of population than the curve graph.

          August 22, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
        • Lawrence

          I'm not leading up to anything. All I'm saying is that its important to question our assumptions and look at the data. That's all. Really! If we're assuming that lack of food and medicine, or possibly isolated tribes is the reason for a suppression of population growth, can we assume that the same condition persisted for 200,000 years? I mean, doesn't that make you wonder if the assumptions are right? That's a really long time to be stagnant – for any population. And if it was predation that kept human populations down for that many years, then why did predators not become the dominant species? What kept populations so level? Can we assume the normal spikes in growth as we see today? If so, what dropped the population back off to the point where it was when we start to see population records?

          Just questioning assumptions, that's all. The data that we have for early human's hard life is not conclusive, I mean there's no way that you can call such a stratified sampling of populations conclusive evidence for anything.

          August 22, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
        • Johnny

          The Ice Age wasn't very helpful to humans, and then things like the black plague that killed as many as 200 million people in Europe. The main reason there is more people today, however, is technology. Technology allows more people to live for longer periods of time, and thus they can have more children that survive.

          August 22, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
        • Lawrence

          Johnny, but you can't count the Black Plague since that little bite in human population is well into the upstroke of the "J" curve. Truely tech. is the reason for such a huge spike, but even before the industrial revolution, populations were beginning to really take off.

          August 22, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          I don't think there is any doubt that it was emerging technologies that created the boon for early humans. The first major cities and metropolis's were formed, information passed from one generation to the next began to snowball as it were to culminate in a collection of advancements that allowed humans to begin living longer and safer lives with year round food sources due to the invention of irrigation and farming. This is not new stuff Larry, historians have known about this transition for quite some time. The earliest known records of the first major cities begin with Gobekli Tepe where the oldest layer found dates back to around 9100 BC. From that point on we then have numerous emerging social groups forming within the next few thousand years.

          August 22, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          It wasn't stagnant. Most population estimates for 10,000 BCE are between 1-5 million, whereas population estimates for 2,000 BCE are between 25-30 million.

          August 22, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
        • Dippy

          It's metropolises, not metropolis's

          August 22, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          Oh Dippy, you fastidious hero of correct grammar, punctuation and semantics. Karl Kraus would be truly proud.

          August 22, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          If that was his only critique of my comment I shall take it as a compliment.

          August 22, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          I think the long and short of this thread is that Larry should hope God can heal amputees because he hasn't got a leg to stand on...

          August 22, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • Johnny

      Are people really this dumb?

      August 22, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
      • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

        Yes, unfortunately.

        August 22, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
      • Johnny

        One should know the answers to most of these questions by the time they are in high school. If he made it out of college and still doesn't know the answers then he should try and get his money back.

        August 22, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
        • Lawrence

          If you can sleep better at night by thinking that, then you go right ahead. Yes, I have a degree by the way, in case you are wondering. They don't torture drop outs with writing technical manuals like I'm doing today... UGH...

          And there's nothing wrong with questioning assumptions. You atheists tell us Christians to do it all the time.

          August 22, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
        • ME II

          @Lawrence,
          How is this an Atheist question? Are you saying the answer depends on whether one believes in God or not?

          August 22, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
        • Lawrence

          Just saying that critical thinking begins with removing assumptions.

          August 22, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      As little as 100 years ago in the United States, 1/3 of infants would die before their first birthday.
      Infant mortality rates have dlclined by 90% in that short time frame.
      Rates of maternal death in childbirth have had a similarly drastic decrease since 1900.
      Prior to understanding sterilization techiques and the modern advent of anti-biotics, relatively minor wounds were prone to becoming fatally septic and prematurely ended countless lives.
      Before we understood epidemiology, communicable diseases rava.ged communites. For example, entire towns used to huddle in Churches during the Black Plague to seek God's protection – but they only succeeded in allowing the disease to spread faster and to more people.
      Prior to modern agricultural techniques, people were far more dependent on the weather. A bad growing season or a harsh winter could wipe out a significant number of people, especially children.

      August 22, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • ME II

      @Lawrence,
      "What caused a suppression of almost 200,000 years of population growth?"

      Medicine, food, weather/climate, predators, etc. Also, "suppression" is misleading.

      August 22, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
  2. Mellow out

    @ marine1
    He has nothing but HotAir.

    August 22, 2013 at 10:37 am |
    • truthprevails1

      Yes marine1 is full of HOT air, not a tremendous amount more within his head.

      August 22, 2013 at 10:40 am |
  3. Q&A

    How do we know God?

    31 Created in God's image and called to know and love him, the person who seeks God discovers certain ways of coming to know him. These are also called proofs for the existence of God, not in the sense of proofs in the natural sciences, but rather in the sense of "converging and convincing arguments", which allow us to attain certainty about the truth. These "ways" of approaching God from creation have a twofold point of departure: the physical world, and the human person.

    32 The world: starting from movement, becoming, contingency, and the world's order and beauty, one can come to a knowledge of God as the origin and the end of the universe.

    As St. Paul says of the Gentiles: For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made.7

    And St. Augustine issues this challenge: Question the beauty of the earth, question the beauty of the sea, question the beauty of the air distending and diffusing itself, question the beauty of the sky. . . question all these realities. All respond: "See, we are beautiful." Their beauty is a profession [confessio]. These beauties are subject to change. Who made them if not the Beautiful One [Pulcher] who is not subject to change?8

    33 The human person: with his openness to truth and beauty, his sense of moral goodness, his freedom and the voice of his conscience, with his longings for the infinite and for happiness, man questions himself about God's existence. In all this he discerns signs of his spiritual soul. the soul, the "seed of eternity we bear in ourselves, irreducible to the merely material",9 can have its origin only in God.

    34 The world, and man, attest that they contain within themselves neither their first principle nor their final end, but rather that they participate in Being itself, which alone is without origin or end. Thus, in different ways, man can come to know that there exists a reality which is the first cause and final end of all things, a reality "that everyone calls God".10

    35 Man's faculties make him capable of coming to a knowledge of the existence of a personal God. But for man to be able to enter into real intimacy with him, God willed both to reveal himself to man, and to give him the grace of being able to welcome this revelation in faith.(so) the proofs of God's existence, however, can predispose one to faith and help one to see that faith is not opposed to reason.
    ~Catholic Church

    August 22, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Pointless.

      August 22, 2013 at 10:20 am |
    • Paul and Silas

      Fantastic points!

      August 22, 2013 at 10:22 am |
      • Warren

        Agree, a lazy mind does not give thought or reason to understand God, a diligent mind gives thought about what matters most to life, living , the now and the after.

        August 22, 2013 at 10:24 am |
      • Richard Cranium

        Al lazy mind believes there is a god, mine tries to determine what is ACTUALLY there.

        August 22, 2013 at 10:28 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Lots of unfounded claims but not a single bit of factual, objective, verifiable or independent evidence for any god. But do continue to repeatedly mumble your mumbo jumbo if it makes you feel good.

      August 22, 2013 at 10:31 am |
      • marine1

        So, I assume that you have evidence to prove that there is no God?

        August 22, 2013 at 10:35 am |
        • truthprevails1

          How do you prove a negative? Do you have evidence to prove that the Easter Bunny isn't real???
          The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim, not the one requesting the evidence of the claim.

          August 22, 2013 at 10:39 am |
        • Brother Maynard

          marine1 sez:
          "So, I assume that you have evidence to prove that there is no God?"
          I'll play your game
          I cannot see, touch, smell, hear nor taste god.
          I cannot dirive a mathimatical formula of god
          I cannot build a device to measure god.
          PROOF god does not exist.

          August 22, 2013 at 10:47 am |
        • Mellow out

          @prevails
          Did I make a claim? I asked for evidence disproving God.

          August 22, 2013 at 10:49 am |
        • Bill Deacon

          All you've proven Maynard is that with the methods you employ, you are incapable.

          August 22, 2013 at 10:49 am |
        • truthprevails1

          Mellow Out: Are you marine1?? How does one go about disproving a god?

          August 22, 2013 at 10:52 am |
        • Richard Cranium

          mellow
          By asking someone to disprove a god, you inply that there is one, so it is an implied claim. There is no evidence one way or another, but you illogically follow one hypothesis rather than explore the myriad other possibilities.

          August 22, 2013 at 10:53 am |
        • marine1

          @Mellow- I can speak for myself TROLL. Go away.

          August 22, 2013 at 10:54 am |
        • Honey Badger Don't Care

          Marine1,

          It is obvious that you dont have even the basic understanding of logic and reason. Maybe someday you will understand how ignorant your question is. This is why the religious are regarded as imbiciles by the skeptic community.

          August 22, 2013 at 10:54 am |
        • marine1

          Pretty petty to resort name calling HONEY. So because I make a statement I am an imbecile? Or am I an imbicile as you spelled it?

          August 22, 2013 at 11:03 am |
        • Brother Maynard

          BD sez
          "All you've proven Maynard is that with the methods you employ, you are incapable."
          Fact remains that I ( or anybody ) cannot see, touch, smell, hear nor taste god
          cannot dirive a mathimatical formula of god,
          cannot build a device to measure god
          PROOF god does not exist

          August 22, 2013 at 11:06 am |
        • AtheistSteve

          Mellow out

          Ok I'll play.
          I can disprove your God. Please provide an accurate and full description of your God for me to disprove.
          Note: A decription of what he supposedly did isn't a description of what he is. eg. He created the universe.(fail)
          A description of what he supossedly wants or desires isn't a description of what he is. eg. He wants us to live without sin.(fail)
          A description of an emotion isn't a description of your God. eg. God is love.(epic fail)

          In fact I think you would be hard pressed to provide anything descriptive at all about your God but please feel free to try.
          I won't be holding my breath.

          August 22, 2013 at 11:07 am |
        • bibletruths107

          prove to me that their is wind. Personally, I can't see it. It's not speaking to me. I feel something blowing, however, how do I know that it is wind. Let me see. Oh! I can see the effects, even though I can't see it literally. Thanks for getting me to reason.

          August 22, 2013 at 11:39 am |
        • truthprevails1

          marine1: You asked a question, you did not make a statement. So how does one go about disproving god? (notice the question mark...it indicates a question not a statement as you have claimed you made)

          August 22, 2013 at 11:12 am |
        • AtheistSteve

          Asking a Christian about God is like this. Let's pretend that a cop is trying to identify someone and asks an eye witness for help. At least in this case an actual person might actually exist but the result is the same.

          Cop: Do you know his name?
          Witness: Yes...it's Oliver. (Ok...so far so good)
          Cop: What else can you tell me?
          Witness: He rode his bicycle into the mall parking lot.
          Cop: Alright..can you describe the bicycle?
          Witness: No.
          Cop: Did you see what he was wearing?
          Witness: No.
          Can you tel me anything else?
          Witness: He stopped to pick flowers.
          Cop: Ok Is there anything specific you can tell me?
          Witness: Oliver is happy.
          Cop: That isn't very helpful. I'm trying to locate him. It's very important that I find him.
          Witness: Think of Oliver and he will come to you.
          Cop: Are you on drugs?

          August 22, 2013 at 11:27 am |
        • truthprevails1

          "prove to me that their is wind"

          Here's the issue, we can test for wind, we can't test for your god or any god. Wish to try again??

          August 22, 2013 at 11:41 am |
        • bibletruths107

          Test for wind? Well, since I can use my reasoning ability, I will say that I believe there is wind. Even though I can't see it, I can see that if this invisible force blows hard enough it will start overturning things. So, I'll agree that there is wind.

          August 22, 2013 at 11:44 am |
        • truthprevails1

          The point is that you use this analogy and it is a poor one to use. How do we scientifically test for your god or any god?

          August 22, 2013 at 11:54 am |
        • AtheistSteve

          Your reasoning ability has nothing to do with it. It doesn't even require being there to prove it. Just set up a sensor and measure it directly. Or deploy a whole series of sensors to detect barometric pressure and actually predict how strong it will be. By test truthprevails1 means we can measure it, sense it, predict it and determine what it's made of.
          So what using any of these methods can we detect about God?
          Nothing.

          August 22, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
        • ME II

          @Brother Maynard,
          "PROOF god does not exist"

          Bill Deacon is correct, I think. What your evidence says is that you (or anyone else) hasn't yet found any evidence of God. It does not demonstrate that no evidence will ever be found. Perhaps some day someone will invent a god-o-meter and finally answer the question one way or the other.

          August 22, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • Lionly Lamb

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAuFJKQh83Y&w=640&h=360]

      September 8, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
  4. HotAirAce

    The RCC continues to amuse and distract its cult members while criminals protecting pedophile priests roam free. Anyone want to bet that JP is stripped of sainthood after the RCC files are leaked and it is proven he stood by, perhaps literally, as children were abused by his shamans?

    August 22, 2013 at 8:12 am |
    • hharri

      get a life.

      wanna bet you never rebuke your beloved side-kick thammy the thweetie? no athies tell her to take a hike. she's a heavenly delight. hypocrites

      August 22, 2013 at 9:10 am |
      • HotAirAce

        No hypocrisy here. . .

        I have never abused a child nor do I belong to any organization that knowingly has covered up, or is covering up, criminal activities. The RCC on the other hand is still actively engaged in protecting criminals and it is very likely that all Pope-A-Dopes since the '50s know the details and were or are involved in the coverup. All they have to do to clear the stench is turn over all their records to civilian authorities. If I thought prayer worked, I would pray that one of their delusional shamans comes to their senses and leaks everything to the press.

        August 22, 2013 at 10:25 am |
        • hharri

          excellent answer.

          once more, wanna bet you never rebuke your beloved side-kick thammy the thweetie? no athies tell her to take a hike. she's a heavenly delight. hypocrites

          August 23, 2013 at 7:41 pm |
        • hharri

          observer, someday, if you ever learn how to think clearly, without jumping to ridiculous, biased, illogical and unsupportable conclusions, you may find that your hordes and hordes of critics may have one less flaw to harp on.

          name names. who is hiding whom? you sound exactly like the christians you detest

          August 23, 2013 at 7:52 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          Never heard of thammie.

          August 23, 2013 at 11:57 pm |
  5. Lionly Lamb

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2HerKSjmNQ&w=640&h=360]

    August 22, 2013 at 6:29 am |
    • midwest rail

      There is no Book of Revelations.

      August 22, 2013 at 9:08 am |
      • hharri

        well, an athie finally got somethin right. good girl

        August 22, 2013 at 9:11 am |
        • midwest rail

          Please cite the post where I describe myself as atheist. Merely because I believe you are mentally ill doesn't count.

          August 22, 2013 at 9:13 am |
      • Lionly Lamb

        Funny Midriff railer...

        Most people know well that the last book in the KJVB if the "Book of Revelations"...

        August 22, 2013 at 9:31 am |
        • midwest rail

          Nope, loony – try looking it up....

          August 22, 2013 at 10:27 am |
  6. Lionly Lamb

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH2w6Oxx0kQ&w=640&h=360]

    August 22, 2013 at 5:43 am |
  7. Lionly Lamb

    Space is so infinitely vast and seemingly beyond our current day science understandings unless such is viewed as being "Spatially Infinite Nothingness"... Time itself is but a measuring tool and can only be seen as pre-history or future possibilities within the ongoing unchangeable currents of Spatially Infinite Nothingness...

    Many people seem marginally subdued within the scientific perspective that there was only a singular big bang and a solitary universe came into existence... I am under the supposition that there were unlimited amounts of big bangs being established within the unknowable vastness of Spatially Infinite Nothingness...

    Therefore we are found being within an infinite number of big bang made universes which are a unifying cosmological force yet unknowable to our scientifically mundane finite minds' understandings...

    Henceforth the wholesomeness of Spatially Infinite Nothingness somehow created all matters of celestial anomalies which in turned did establish the creations of all atomized cellular containers of living abundances...

    Exactly how many big bang created universes does it take to establish a realm of such extreme size that a mega-celestial cosmos would eventually be its outcome..? Does this take away from our simplified celestial cosmos of ordinary big bang universes or are we to suppose our universe is all that there is within the vastness of Spatially Infinite Nothingness..?

    Another issue which plagues me in my thought processes is the inwardness of Spatially Infinite Nothingness that intertwines all cosmologies of the atomized domains… Science has proven that there is more emptiness than material matter within all the atoms…

    Do these tendrils meandering from the Spatially Infinite Nothingness of Outer Space reach their ending where the atoms physical essences are found..? Are or could atoms be so very old and ancient a cosmological order that our young celestially woven cosmos is attempting to be like the atomized domains orderliness..? After all, the atomic orders of cosmologic celestial ordainments were first made long before the celestial cosmos was made as a fermented commodity by the atomized accumulative congealing waywardness…

    To say that God’s Spirit is the Spatially Infinite Nothingness is a religious rationalist’s perspective when considering just how all materialized matter came into physical existence… To rightly understand the overall cosmologies regarding the material realms one needs to take into accounts that Spatially Infinite Nothingness reaches ever inwardly as spatial tendrils (or fingers) putting distances of physical nothingness between each and every atom and their sub-atomized makeups…

    Should science come to reason that immeasurable and/or unknowable amounts of big bangs happened establishing unknowable amounts of big bang universes, only then will science find the missing answers regarding quantum laws of physical thermodynamics on the celestial scales relative to the atomized thermodynamics scalar sizes within each and every physical embodiment of all living cellular abundances…

    August 22, 2013 at 5:30 am |
    • saggyroy

      I'll have what he's having....

      August 22, 2013 at 6:06 am |
      • Lionly Lamb

        Thanks for reminding me saggyroy... Gotta put on a pot of Joe... 😳

        August 22, 2013 at 6:11 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      Boy are you dense. The only thing we know anything about is this universe. That's it. Anything else is pure speculation. It doesn't matter if there was just one or an infinite number of Big Bangs...we are aware of just the one we observe.
      We don't know any more and guess what genius...neither do you. So you can ramble on like an idiot about atomized this and celestial that till the cows come home but you're not gaining any support for your inane drivel until you provide some actual evidence. I for one won't be holding my breath.

      August 22, 2013 at 9:19 am |
      • Lionly Lamb

        Sired A.S.$...

        You've got your density meter plugged in A$$ backwards sonny boy...

        August 22, 2013 at 9:35 am |
        • AtheistSteve

          Sure...I'm an ass but it's far far better thing than being a lunatic like you Junior.

          August 22, 2013 at 10:39 am |
  8. hharri

    Every believer is a saint

    August 22, 2013 at 2:10 am |
    • truthprevails1

      Including Andrea Yates; the pedophile priests; those who kill in the name of their god; those who deny equal rights to LGBT??

      August 22, 2013 at 4:57 am |
      • Lionly Lamb

        Sired T.P....

        Killing innocent children still in the wombs in the name of socialisms waywardness forsaking childhoods the rights to be born goes way past the socialized rights of moralized equalities... Death has become legitimized within a world gone awkwardly astray far from the guiding principles that was once made manifested and found to be righteous in our nation's once proud people... Shame is flushed down the drains ever to plug up righteous rationalism within moral regularities...

        August 22, 2013 at 6:07 am |
        • truthprevails1

          Who brought up abortion? And since when was abortion illegal???
          If a woman is raped or impregnated via incest or her life is at risk, should she be denied an abortion?
          The women who have the most abortions are christian women...they believe, are they saints??
          Given that you are not able to have an abortion and wouldn't take care of the children who are born as the result of denying a woman that right, what makes you think you get a say when it comes to what a person does with their body?

          Hharri said that all believers are saints, so is Andrea Yates, who firmly believes in your god, a saint even though she drowned 5 innocent children? Are the pedophile priests who harm innocent children saints?

          August 22, 2013 at 7:24 am |
        • AtheistSteve

          Who is killing innocent children? A developing fetus isn't a child. it's just one of a womans 400 available eggs...any one of which can be brought to term. The value of any particular one is nothing more than the value placed upon it by the parents. If the parents feels they aren't ready to take on the enormous responcibility of raising kids then early termination makes perfect sense. There are plenty more eggs available for gestation when they are truly ready. Bringing unwanted children into the world is just plain cruel.

          August 22, 2013 at 7:40 am |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          Christ, have you people yet to realize that responding to LL in a serious manner is a no-no?

          August 22, 2013 at 8:06 am |
        • truthprevails1

          Yes Dave and typically I wouldn't come back with anything more than a line but I'm extremely curious as to LL's comparison between abortion and what Andrea Yates did or maybe not knowing would be best.

          August 22, 2013 at 8:14 am |
        • AtheistSteve

          I'm sorry Dave

          The goal isn't to debate the blatant crazy in LL's posts but to provide contrast. Our position isn't going to sway the devout no matter how poignant. I post here for the non-believer our questioning fence-sitter. To inform and validate the reasonable viewpoint. To help those looking to find useful tools for the beliefs they hold based on skepticism, logic, evidence, fatcs and reason.

          August 22, 2013 at 8:17 am |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          truthprevails1

          There's nothing to know. LL is a troll. He/she (does anybody know? I'll presume he) likely doesn't believe most of the stuff he posts, he just does it for effect.

          AtheistSteve

          Did you mean 'or fence-sitter' or were you referring to me as a fence-sitter?

          August 22, 2013 at 8:24 am |
        • AtheistSteve

          Yes Dave...or and facts were typos.

          August 22, 2013 at 8:26 am |
        • truthprevails1

          Dave: 🙂 LL is male. He previously has talked about his ex wife or wives.

          August 22, 2013 at 8:30 am |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          AtheistSteve

          OK.

          truthprevails1

          Ex being the optimum word. Imagine having to spend prolonged periods of time with him. I'd pack my bags pretty quickly.

          August 22, 2013 at 8:35 am |
        • AtheistSteve

          I agree with you Dave that LL likely doesn't truly believe the celestial, atomised cosmology drivel it spouts. I normally ignore the batshit nutty spewing of non-sequiturs he posts.

          August 22, 2013 at 8:36 am |
        • truthprevails1

          Dave: I feel sorry for his ex's...I can't imagine the hell they must have lived through.

          August 22, 2013 at 8:45 am |
        • Lionly Lamb

          I see that the most insolent hell's fires are brewing up a stormy delight... The most incensed pragmatists hurl the most vile embitterment's salsa my way... I tip my hat to the many foolish of the most prideful debutants who would rather kill the message and the messenger instead of opening their eyes wide...

          August 22, 2013 at 8:56 am |
        • AtheistSteve

          Right...when you have a point or something worth seeing get back to us. Your dementia doesn't count as noteworthy.

          August 22, 2013 at 9:03 am |
        • truthprevails1

          LL: Did we hurt your poor wee feelings??? LMAO.

          August 22, 2013 at 9:06 am |
        • Lionly Lamb

          Toiletries Pervasiveness wrote, "Who brought up abortion? And since when was abortion illegal???"

          I brought abortion up T.P.... And abortion was once not too long ago illegal but I guess the fear of Godly reprisal was overcome thru shaming and ridiculing all the court's jesters and they caved in to the low percentage masses who cried out the loudest...

          [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqRZPY1DZR4&w=640&h=360]

          August 22, 2013 at 9:08 am |
        • truthprevails1

          LoserLamb: Your opinion doesn't matter!! You can't have an abortion, so you have no idea as to the reality involved.
          Now it is funny that you attempted to answer those questions but refused to answer the others.
          Once it was illegal but it isn't now and it will never be again.
          Keep your nose out of the business of other people. What a woman does with her body is not your business!

          August 22, 2013 at 9:19 am |
        • Lionly Lamb

          Toiletry's Pastel...

          So then when has this once great nation of the USA become a matriarchy..? Oh yes now I remember... Do you T.p...?

          August 22, 2013 at 9:26 am |
        • truthprevails1

          LoserLamb: Posting Steppenwolf video's is supposed to prove what??? Steppenwolf is music I happen to like.

          August 22, 2013 at 9:28 am |
        • Lionly Lamb

          T.Paper...

          If you like Steppenwolf when's the last time you meditated listening to 'Monster'..? How about 'Pusher Man'..?

          [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6TvaItYu_M&w=640&h=360]

          August 22, 2013 at 9:43 am |
      • hharri

        all sinners saints. indeed. as usual, athies got their shorts on backwards. while they despise catholics with the hatred of a thammy the freak, they use their nomenclature all the time. sieg heil!

        study the new testament, the infallible word of god. you have wasted enough time following your skittish gurus profiting from ignorant christian haters like thou.

        August 22, 2013 at 9:19 am |
        • hharri

          liarslose, "LoserLamb: Your opinion doesn't matter!! You can't have an abortion, so you have no idea as to the reality involved.
          Now it is funny that you attempted to answer those questions but refused to answer the others.
          Once it was illegal but it isn't now and it will never be again. (sure. leave it to an athie to know everything)
          Keep your nose out of the business of other people. What a woman does with her body is not your business!" all sinners saints. none of your business where anyone sticks his nose, liarloser. that thing you poison and drain in a sickening pool of blood? jill or jack or petra? that gooey blip of life, ain't yours to sever and destroy, so knock it off. there's a higher law than the one you manipulate.

          August 22, 2013 at 9:28 am |
        • AtheistSteve

          You're wrong hharri
          Atheists don't hate Christians. In fact we pity them. They are the victims of poisonous ideas. It's the ideology we despise not the poor gullible adherents.

          August 22, 2013 at 9:35 am |
        • hharri

          you tell em thammy

          August 22, 2013 at 9:38 am |
    • marybee

      let's play atheist poster!

      August 22, 2013 at 9:31 am |
      • stoning the tham

        i like palenn

        August 22, 2013 at 9:31 am |
        • benfranklin

          those dudes are wild. athies are deluded!

          August 22, 2013 at 9:32 am |
        • marybee

          they are all deluded

          August 22, 2013 at 9:36 am |
      • acrimonious

        tell em marybee

        August 22, 2013 at 9:33 am |
        • marybee

          that's why all those atheists are turning to god

          August 22, 2013 at 9:35 am |
  9. mzh

    Pope Francis on gays: 'Who am I to judge?' then who gives authority to promote a dead person where no one knows whats the condition of this dead person? and whats the difference between idol worship and praying to this dead person?

    August 21, 2013 at 11:56 pm |
    • Ken

      Jesus is dead, but that hasn't stopped anyone from making all kinds of assumptions about his "condition", yes?

      August 22, 2013 at 12:29 am |
      • domingo

        what do you believe?

        August 22, 2013 at 2:31 am |
      • hharri

        How do you know?

        August 22, 2013 at 2:35 am |
      • mzh

        if a country has no fed laws then what would the citizen of the country do? or the fed laws are open to all then everyone will do whatever pleases him/her... and after few generations they will think this is the law... so do whatever pleases me to do ...

        August 22, 2013 at 10:20 am |
  10. evolved DNA

    LL what do you consider to be nothingness? or your understanding of the word?

    August 21, 2013 at 11:08 pm |

    • Nothing does not exist

      August 21, 2013 at 11:10 pm |
    • Lionly Lamb

      "Spatially Infinite Nothingness" stretches from the outermost reaches of cosmic relevancies to the very most inner depths of our atomized discoveries... Nothingness contains the allness of everything materialized from the most small to the most gigantic...

      August 21, 2013 at 11:23 pm |
      • G to the T

        Who ever said the universe was "spatially infinite". My understanding was that it was "finite but boundless", a very different proposition.

        August 22, 2013 at 10:16 am |
    • Charles

      Even if a perfect vacuum can exist, wouldn't such a space still be a "thing"?

      August 22, 2013 at 12:39 am |
      • AtheistSteve

        space is a "thing". It has dimension. It can be bent, twisted or stretched. Experiments even show that it has energy.

        August 22, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
  11. Kenny Rogers

    Plus, jesus never existed.

    August 21, 2013 at 11:06 pm |
    • Reality

      Only for the new members of this blog:

      From Professors Crossan and Watts' book, Who is Jesus.

      "That Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate, as the Creed states, is as certain as anything historical can ever be.

      “ The Jewish historian, Josephus and the pagan historian Tacitus both agree that Jesus was executed by order of the Roman governor of Judea. And is very hard to imagine that Jesus' followers would have invented such a story unless it indeed happened.

      “While the brute fact that of Jesus' death by crucifixion is historically certain, however, those detailed narratives in our present gospels are much more problematic. "

      “My best historical reconstruction would be something like this. Jesus was arrested during the Passover festival, most likely in response to his action in the Temple. Those who were closest to him ran away for their own safety.

      I do not presume that there were any high-level confrontations between Caiaphas and Pilate and Herod Antipas either about Jesus or with Jesus. No doubt they would have agreed before the festival that fast action was to be taken against any disturbance and that a few examples by crucifixion might be especially useful at the outset. And I doubt very much if Jewish police or Roman soldiers needed to go too far up the chain of command in handling a Galilean peasant like Jesus. It is hard for us to imagine the casual brutality with which Jesus was probably taken and executed. All those "last week" details in our gospels, as distinct from the brute facts just mentioned, are prophecy turned into history, rather than history remembered."

      See also Professor Crossan's reviews of the existence of Jesus in his other books especially, The Historical Jesus and also Excavating Jesus (with Professor Jonathan Reed doing the archeology discussion) .

      Other NT exegetes to include members of the Jesus Seminar have published similar books with appropriate supporting references.

      Part of Crossan's The Historical Jesus has been published online at books.google.com/books.

      There is also a search engine for this book on the right hand side of the opening page. e.g. Search Josephus

      See also Wikipedia's review on the historical Jesus to include the Tacitus' reference to the crucifixion of Jesus.

      From ask.com,

      "One of the greatest historians of ancient Rome, Cornelius Tacitus is a primary source for much of what is known about life the first and second centuries after the life of Jesus. His most famous works, Histories and Annals, exist in fragmentary form, though many of his earlier writings were lost to time. Tacitus is known for being generally reliable (if somewhat biased toward what he saw as Roman immorality) and for having a uniquely direct (if not blunt) writing style.

      Then there are these scriptural references:

      Crucifixion of Jesus:(1) 1 Cor 15:3b; (2a) Gos. Pet. 4:10-5:16,18-20; 6:22; (2b) Mark 15:22-38 = Matt 27:33-51a = Luke 23:32-46; (2c) John 19:17b-25a,28-36; (3) Barn. 7:3-5; (4a) 1 Clem. 16:3-4 (=Isaiah 53:1-12); (4b) 1 Clem. 16.15-16 (=Psalm 22:6-8); (5a) Ign. Mag. 11; (5b) Ign. Trall. 9:1b; (5c) Ign. Smyrn. 1.2.- (read them all at wiki.faithfutures. Crucifixion org/index.php/005_Crucifixion_Of_Jesus )

      Added suggested readings:

      o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.

      2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
      – a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication–

      30-60 CE Passion Narrative
      40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
      50-60 1 Thessalonians
      50-60 Philippians
      50-60 Galatians
      50-60 1 Corinthians
      50-60 2 Corinthians
      50-60 Romans
      50-60 Philemon
      50-80 Colossians
      50-90 Signs Gospel
      50-95 Book of Hebrews
      50-120 Didache
      50-140 Gospel of Thomas
      50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
      50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
      65-80 Gospel of Mark
      70-100 Epistle of James
      70-120 Egerton Gospel
      70-160 Gospel of Peter
      70-160 Secret Mark
      70-200 Fayyum Fragment
      70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
      73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
      80-100 2 Thessalonians
      80-100 Ephesians
      80-100 Gospel of Matthew
      80-110 1 Peter
      80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
      80-130 Gospel of Luke
      80-130 Acts of the Apostles
      80-140 1 Clement
      80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
      80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
      80-250 Christian Sibyllines
      90-95 Apocalypse of John
      90-120 Gospel of John
      90-120 1 John
      90-120 2 John
      90-120 3 John
      90-120 Epistle of Jude
      93 Flavius Josephus
      100-150 1 Timothy
      100-150 2 Timothy
      100-150 T-itus
      100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
      100-150 Secret Book of James
      100-150 Preaching of Peter
      100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
      100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
      100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
      100-160 2 Peter

       4. Jesus Database, http://www.faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/intro.html –"The JESUS DATABASE is an online a-nnotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
      5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bis-sar24.htm
      6. The Jesus Seminar, http://en.wikipedia.o-rg/wiki/Jesus_Seminar
      7. http://www.biblicalartifacts.com/items/785509/item785509biblicalartifacts.html – books on the health and illness during the time of the NT
      8. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.
      9.The Gn-ostic Jesus
      (Part One in a Two-Part Series on A-ncient and Modern G-nosticism)
      by Douglas Gro-othuis: http://www.equip.o-rg/articles/g-nosticism-and-the-g-nostic-jesus/
      10. The interpretation of the Bible in the Church, Pontifical Biblical Commission
      Presented on March 18, 1994
      ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM#2
      11. The Jesus Database- newer site:
      wiki.faithfutures.o-rg/index.php?t-itle=Jesus_Database
      12. Jesus Database with the example of S-u-pper and Eucharist:
      faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/jdb016.html
      13. Josephus on Jesus by Paul Maier:
      mtio.com/articles/bis-sar24.htm
      13. http://www.textweek.com/mtlk/jesus.htmm- Historical Jesus Studies
      14. The Greek New Testament: laparola.net/greco/
      15. D-iseases in the Bible:
      http://books.google.com/books/about/The_d-iseases_of_the_Bible.html?id=C1YZAAAAYAAJ

      16. Religion on Line (6000 articles on the history of religion, churches, theologies,
      theologians, ethics, etc.
      religion-online.o-rg/

       17. The New Testament Gateway – Internet NT ntgateway.com/
      18. Writing the New Testament- e-xisting copies, o-ral tradition etc.
      ntgateway.com/
      19. JD Crossan's c-onclusions about the a-uthencity of most of the NT based on the above plus the c-onclusions of other NT e-xege-tes in the last 200 years:
      http://wiki.faithfutures.o-rg/index.p-hp?t-itle=Crossan_Inventory
      20. Early Jewish Writings- Josephus and his books by t-itle with the complete translated work in English :earlyjewishwritings.com/josephus.html
      21. Luke and Josephus- was there a c-onnection?
      in-fidels.o-rg/library/modern/richard_carrier/lukeandjosephus.html
      22. NT and beyond time line:
      pbs.o-rg/empires/pe-terandpaul/history/timeline/
      23. St. Paul's Time line with discussion of important events:
      harvardhouse.com/prophetictech/new/pauls_life.htm
      24. See http://www.amazon.com for a list of JD Crossan's books and those of the other Jesus Seminarians: Reviews of said books are included and selected pages can now be viewed on Amazon. Some books can be found on-line at Google Books.
      25. Father Edward Schillebeeckx's words of wisdom as found in his books.
      27. The books of the following : Professors Gerd Ludemann, Marcus Borg, Paula Fredriksen, Elaine Pagels, Karen Armstrong and Bishop NT Wright.
      28. Father Raymond Brown's An Introduction to the New Testament, Doubleday, NY, 1977, 878 pages, with Nihil obstat and Imprimatur.
      29. Luke Timothy Johnson's book The Real Jesus

      August 21, 2013 at 11:23 pm |
      • Reality

        Oops, there was a computer glitch caused by the stupid word filter used on this blog. I apologize for the repiti-tive comments.

        August 21, 2013 at 11:31 pm |
        • Athy

          Do you really think anyone read either one?

          August 22, 2013 at 12:15 am |
    • Reality

      Only for the new members of this blog:

      From Professors Crossan and Watts' book, Who is Jesus.

      "That Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate, as the Creed states, is as certain as anything historical can ever be.

      “ The Jewish historian, Josephus and the pagan historian Tacitus both agree that Jesus was executed by order of the Roman governor of Judea. And is very hard to imagine that Jesus' followers would have invented such a story unless it indeed happened.

      “While the brute fact that of Jesus' death by crucifixion is historically certain, however, those detailed narratives in our present gospels are much more problematic. "

      “My best historical reconstruction would be something like this. Jesus was arrested during the Passover festival, most likely in response to his action in the Temple. Those who were closest to him ran away for their own safety.

      I do not presume that there were any high-level confrontations between Caiaphas and Pilate and Herod Antipas either about Jesus or with Jesus. No doubt they would have agreed before the festival that fast action was to be taken against any disturbance and that a few examples by crucifixion might be especially useful at the outset. And I doubt very much if Jewish police or Roman soldiers needed to go too far up the chain of command in handling a Galilean peasant like Jesus. It is hard for us to imagine the casual brutality with which Jesus was probably taken and executed. All those "last week" details in our gospels, as distinct from the brute facts just mentioned, are prophecy turned into history, rather than history remembered."

      See also Professor Crossan's reviews of the existence of Jesus in his other books especially, The Historical Jesus and also Excavating Jesus (with Professor Jonathan Reed doing the archeology discussion) .

      Other NT exegetes to include members of the Jesus Seminar have published similar books with appropriate supporting references.

      Part of Crossan's The Historical Jesus has been published online at books.google.com/books.

      There is also a search engine for this book on the right hand side of the opening page. e.g. Search Josephus

      See also Wikipedia's review on the historical Jesus to include the Tacitus' reference to the crucifixion of Jesus.

      From ask.com,

      "One of the greatest historians of ancient Rome, Cornelius Tacitus is a primary source for much of what is known about life the first and second centuries after the life of Jesus. His most famous works, Histories and Annals, exist in fragmentary form, though many of his earlier writings were lost to time. Tacitus is known for being generally reliable (if somewhat biased toward what he saw as Roman immorality) and for having a uniquely direct (if not blunt) writing style.

      Then there are these scriptural references:

      Crucifixion of Jesus:(1) 1 Cor 15:3b; (2a) Gos. Pet. 4:10-5:16,18-20; 6:22; (2b) Mark 15:22-38 = Matt 27:33-51a = Luke 23:32-46; (2c) John 19:17b-25a,28-36; (3) Barn. 7:3-5; (4a) 1 Clem. 16:3-4 (=Isaiah 53:1-12); (4b) 1 Clem. 16.15-16 (=Psalm 22:6-8); (5a) Ign. Mag. 11; (5b) Ign. Trall. 9:1b; (5c) Ign. Smyrn. 1.2.- (read them all at wiki.faithfutures. Crucifixion o-rg/index.php/005_Crucifixion_Of_Jesus )

      Added suggested readings:

      o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.

      2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
      – a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication–

      30-60 CE Passion Narrative
      40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
      50-60 1 Thessalonians
      50-60 Philippians
      50-60 Galatians
      50-60 1 Corinthians
      50-60 2 Corinthians
      50-60 Romans
      50-60 Philemon
      50-80 Colossians
      50-90 Signs Gospel
      50-95 Book of Hebrews
      50-120 Didache
      50-140 Gospel of Thomas
      50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
      50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
      65-80 Gospel of Mark
      70-100 Epistle of James
      70-120 Egerton Gospel
      70-160 Gospel of Peter
      70-160 Secret Mark
      70-200 Fayyum Fragment
      70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
      73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
      80-100 2 Thessalonians
      80-100 Ephesians
      80-100 Gospel of Matthew
      80-110 1 Peter
      80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
      80-130 Gospel of Luke
      80-130 Acts of the Apostles
      80-140 1 Clement
      80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
      80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
      80-250 Christian Sibyllines
      90-95 Apocalypse of John
      90-120 Gospel of John
      90-120 1 John
      90-120 2 John
      90-120 3 John
      90-120 Epistle of Jude
      93 Flavius Josephus
      100-150 1 Timothy
      100-150 2 Timothy
      100-150 T-itus
      100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
      100-150 Secret Book of James
      100-150 Preaching of Peter
      100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
      100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
      100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
      100-160 2 Peter

       4. Jesus Database, http://www.faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/intro.html –"The JESUS DATABASE is an online a-nnotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
      5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bis-sar24.htm
      6. The Jesus Seminar, http://en.wikipedia.o-rg/wiki/Jesus_Seminar
      7. http://www.biblicalartifacts.com/items/785509/item785509biblicalartifacts.html – books on the health and illness during the time of the NT
      8. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.
      9.The Gn-ostic Jesus
      (Part One in a Two-Part Series on A-ncient and Modern G-nosticism)
      by Douglas Gro-othuis: http://www.equip.o-rg/articles/g-nosticism-and-the-g-nostic-jesus/
      10. The interpretation of the Bible in the Church, Pontifical Biblical Commission
      Presented on March 18, 1994
      ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM#2
      11. The Jesus Database- newer site:
      wiki.faithfutures.o-rg/index.php?t-itle=Jesus_Database
      12. Jesus Database with the example of S-u-pper and Eucharist:
      faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/jdb016.html
      13. Josephus on Jesus by Paul Maier:
      mtio.com/articles/bis-sar24.htm
      13. http://www.textweek.com/mtlk/jesus.htmm- Historical Jesus Studies
      14. The Greek New Testament: laparola.net/greco/
      15. D-iseases in the Bible:
      http://books.google.com/books/about/The_d-iseases_of_the_Bible.html?id=C1YZAAAAYAAJ

      16. Religion on Line (6000 articles on the history of religion, churches, theologies,
      theologians, ethics, etc.
      religion-online.o-rg/

       17. The New Testament Gateway – Internet NT ntgateway.com/
      18. Writing the New Testament- e-xisting copies, o-ral tradition etc.
      ntgateway.com/
      19. JD Crossan's c-onclusions about the a-uthencity of most of the NT based on the above plus the c-onclusions of other NT e-xege-tes in the last 200 years:
      http://wiki.faithfutures.o-rg/index.p-hp?t-itle=Crossan_Inventory
      20. Early Jewish Writings- Josephus and his books by t-itle with the complete translated work in English :earlyjewishwritings.com/josephus.html
      21. Luke and Josephus- was there a c-onnection?
      in-fidels.o-rg/library/modern/richard_carrier/lukeandjosephus.html
      22. NT and beyond time line:
      pbs.o-rg/empires/pe-terandpaul/history/timeline/
      23. St. Paul's Time line with discussion of important events:
      harvardhouse.com/prophetictech/new/pauls_life.htm
      24. See http://www.amazon.com for a list of JD Crossan's books and those of the other Jesus Seminarians: Reviews of said books are included and selected pages can now be viewed on Amazon. Some books can be found on-line at Google Books.
      25. Father Edward Schillebeeckx's words of wisdom as found in his books.
      27. The books of the following : Professors Gerd Ludemann, Marcus Bo-rg, Paula Fredriksen, Elaine Pagels, Karen Armstrong and Bishop NT Wright.
      28. Father Raymond Brown's An Introduction to the New Testament, Doubleday, NY, 1977, 878 pages, with Nihil obstat and Imprimatur.
      29. Luke Timothy Johnson's book The Real Jesus

      August 21, 2013 at 11:24 pm |
      • Reality

        Summarizing the above:

        Jesus was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
        preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
        named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
        girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

        Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
        the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

        He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
        a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
        Jerusalem.

        Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
        many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
        and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
        Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
        grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
        and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
        called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

        August 21, 2013 at 11:26 pm |
    • Ken

      Jesus probably existed just as much as Davy Crockett and Elvis, but that doesn't mean that you have to accept all the wild, crazy stories people told about any of them, right?

      August 22, 2013 at 12:23 am |
      • Reality

        As noted as such in the summary.

        August 22, 2013 at 7:29 am |
  12. Lionly Lamb

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTHrTOzfqhg&w=640&h=360]

    August 21, 2013 at 10:58 pm |
  13. lamelionheart

    Exactly how many people will it take to complete a generation given that their genetic sequencing is the key to each and every generation until the genetic sequences begin once again..?

    August 21, 2013 at 10:18 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      The human genome is a tatty thing, LL. Nothing mystical about that.

      August 21, 2013 at 10:28 pm |
      • Lionly Lamb

        Who's being "mystical"..? Or have you nuttin better to post..?

        August 21, 2013 at 10:46 pm |
        • Jeff

          Look who's talking.

          August 21, 2013 at 11:10 pm |
  14. lamelionheart

    Space is so infinitely vast and is beyond current day science's understanding unless such is viewed as being "Spatially Infinite Nothingness"... Time itself is but a measuring tool and can only be seen as pre-history or future possibilities within the ongoing unchangeable currents of Spatially Infinite Nothingness...

    Many people seem marginally subdued within the scientific perspective that there was only a singular big bang and a solitary universe came into existence... I am under the supposition that there were unlimited amounts of big bangs being established within the unknowable vastness of Spatially Infinite Nothingness...

    Therefore we are found being within an infinite number of big bang made universes which are a unifying cosmological force yet unknowable to our scientifically mundane finite minds' understandings...

    Henceforth the wholesomeness of Spatially Infinite Nothingness created all matters of celestial anomalies which in turned did establish the creations of all atomized cellular containers of living abundances...

    August 21, 2013 at 9:48 pm |
    • lamelionheart

      Exactly how many big bang created universes does it take to establish a realm of such extreme size that a mega-celestial cosmos will be its outcome..? Does this take away from our simplified celestial cosmos of ordinary big bang universes or are we to suppose our universe is all that there is within the vastness of Spatially Infinite Nothingness..?

      August 21, 2013 at 9:52 pm |
    • Lionly Lamb

      Another issue which plagues me in my thought processes is the inwardness of Spatially Infinite Nothingness that intertwines all the cosmologies of the atomized domains… Science has proven that there is more emptiness than material matter within all the atoms…

      August 22, 2013 at 4:57 am |
      • Lionly Lamb

        Do these tendrils meandering from the Spatially Infinite Nothingness of Outer Space reach their ending where the atoms physical essences are found..?

        August 22, 2013 at 5:05 am |
      • Lionly Lamb

        Are or could atoms be so very old and ancient a cosmological order that our young celestially woven cosmos is attempting to be like the atomized domains orderliness..?

        August 22, 2013 at 5:07 am |
      • Lionly Lamb

        After all, the atomic orders were first established long before the celestial cosmos was made as a fermented commodity by the atomized accumulative congealing ways…

        To say that God’s Spirit is the Spatially Infinite Nothingness is a rationalist’s perspective when considering just how all materialized matter came into physical existence… To rightly understand the overall cosmologies regarding the material realms one needs to take into accounts that Nothingness reaches ever inwardly as spatial tendrils putting distances of nothingness between each and every atom and their sub-atomized makeups…

        Should science come to reason that immeasurable and/or unknowable amounts of big bangs happened establishing unknowable amounts of big bang universes, only then will science find the missing answers regarding quantum laws of physical thermodynamics on the celestial scales relative to the atomized thermodynamics scalar sizes within each and every physical embodiment of all living cellular abundances…

        August 22, 2013 at 5:12 am |
    • truthprevails1

      Talking to yourself is a sure sign of schizophrenia...turn off the computer and locate the nearest asylum.

      August 22, 2013 at 5:00 am |
  15. fred

    Intelligent atheist? Congrats, you just read an oxymoron.

    August 21, 2013 at 9:29 pm |
    • Doobs

      Ooh, look! fred made a funny!

      August 21, 2013 at 11:57 pm |
      • Athy

        That's about as funny as Fred can get.

        August 22, 2013 at 12:06 am |
    • truthprevails1

      Guess you missed the studies that show you're wrong!

      August 22, 2013 at 5:01 am |
  16. Bulbous Taint

    The bible contradicts itself into oblivion. Jesus contradicted himself and lied on top of it. You'd of course know this if you actually read the stupid thing.

    Christians are the most arrogant piles of human garbage to have ever existed.

    I'd rather burn in fire for eternity than spend an afterlife in the presence of such pompous, self-serving and greedy trash.

    I'm glad god does not exist, specifically the bipolar christian god. The god of racism, hate and death. Christians LOVE worshiping an imaginary being the gives them permission to take their hate out on everyone around them.

    The bible gave christians permission to torture and slaughter millions of people. Who aborts more babies than any other demographic? Christians. What demographic represents the largest prison population across the globe? Christians.

    Yeah, like I'm going to take lessons in morality from garbage responsible for the worst crimes in human history.

    North Korea's leadership are probably all secretly christian.

    August 21, 2013 at 9:13 pm |
    • toad

      Atheist filth. You are a bag of shit.

      August 21, 2013 at 9:18 pm |
      • Bulbous Taint

        Go fuck yourself, numbnuts.

        August 21, 2013 at 9:22 pm |
      • Marvel1977

        Thanks for proving him right toad!

        August 21, 2013 at 9:25 pm |
      • Athy

        That's about as funny as toad can get.

        August 22, 2013 at 12:07 am |
    • bibletruths107

      Many people have turned away from God for the very reason you have mentioned. Those people that exhibit those kinds of behavior are not Christ like. In order to follow the footsteps of Jesus Christ, one has to study the bible. For a fact, most people do not. What they do study is their ministers and exalt them to a high position of worship, i.e. pope. There are many prophecies in the bible. One prophecy foretells how the governments will turn against Babylon the Great (World empire of False religion). This very prophecy is being fulfilled today if you look around the world including in the U.S.

      August 21, 2013 at 9:19 pm |
      • Bulbous Taint

        Hey genius, read a bible.

        And jesus never existed. Shove it.

        August 21, 2013 at 9:23 pm |
        • bibletruths107

          I'm not a genius, quite the contrary. However, I do read the bible. It gives some very practical advice. For instance, it states however you would like to people to treat you, treat others likewise also. If you would like respect, then respect others. Even if they have a difference of opinion. I believe people refer to it as the golden rule.

          August 21, 2013 at 9:32 pm |
        • Athy

          And you need a bible to tell you that? Amazing.

          August 22, 2013 at 12:09 am |
        • truthprevails1

          bibletruths107: That practical advice for living can be found without the use of a bible or the need for a god.

          August 22, 2013 at 5:06 am |
        • Troll Spotter

          Found One!

          August 22, 2013 at 8:11 am |
        • Richard Cranium

          bible lies 101
          The things you state that came from the bible, actually came from the Buddha 400 years before.

          August 22, 2013 at 10:23 am |
      • Marvel1977

        The bible turned me into an atheist. Prophecies? LOL!! Jesus didn't fulfill any of the OT prophecies. So he was a blatant fraud! Did you know that there wasn't supposed to be a messiah? Read up on it. It's all in your little old bible (book of lies)

        August 21, 2013 at 9:28 pm |
        • bibletruths107

          Exactly where did you read in the bible that there was not suppose to be a messiah?

          August 21, 2013 at 9:36 pm |
      • Ken

        Why would anyone want to follow in the steps of a failed messianic claimant?

        August 22, 2013 at 12:25 am |
        • bibletruths107

          He didn't fail. He died without sin. You should be very happy about that.

          August 22, 2013 at 10:20 am |
        • Zombie God

          Prove he was without sin.

          August 22, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
  17. 7

    Hello guys. Everyone is invited to visit... thetreasureofzion.com

    August 21, 2013 at 9:08 pm |
    • Bulbous Taint

      No thanks. I'd rather bang a dead horse in its maggot infested butt hole.

      August 21, 2013 at 9:14 pm |
      • Troll Spotter

        Have you nothing better to do Troll? Your opinion is not everyone's opinion. You give Atheist a bad name.

        August 22, 2013 at 8:15 am |
  18. Bootyfunk

    pope john paul was the champion of pedophile priests all over the world - nothing to be proud of

    August 21, 2013 at 8:58 pm |
    • bibletruths107

      If you read the bible, You will see that the Pope and Jesus Christ have absolutely nothing in common. Jesus was humble and did not live in fancy digs. He did not get involved in politics.

      August 21, 2013 at 9:08 pm |
      • Bulbous Taint

        Plus, jesus never existed.

        August 21, 2013 at 9:14 pm |
      • Bootyfunk

        if you read the bible, you'll see there is no mention of a pope - not sure what you're point is, or if you have one...

        August 21, 2013 at 9:36 pm |
        • bibletruths107

          My point is based on the Pope's lifestyle, Jesus Christ and the Pope have nothing in common. How can the Pope be a Christian (Christ-like) and not follow in his footsteps..

          August 21, 2013 at 9:41 pm |
        • Jeff

          Oh, what the hell, bibletruths, 9 out of 10 "Christians" are anything but Christ-like. Just a bunch of hypocrites using the Bible to hide their personal hate and bigotry. Try again.

          August 21, 2013 at 11:01 pm |
        • bibletruths107

          I agree with you. That's why the bible says go thru the narrow gate because wide and spacious is the gate leading to destruction and many are the ones finding it.

          August 21, 2013 at 11:23 pm |
      • Ken

        If you read the bible, you will see that Jesus and this Christ character have absolutely nothing in common too.

        August 22, 2013 at 12:26 am |
      • Ken

        How "humble" can you be if you claim to be God?

        August 22, 2013 at 12:36 am |
        • bibletruths107

          Jesus did not claim to be God. Quite the contrary. He gave all the glory to his father in heaven. I would quote the scriptures to prove this, however, CNN site won't allow it. However, they do allow a lot of disrespectful profanity. Interesting. The bible talks about woe to those who are saying bad is good and good is bad.

          August 22, 2013 at 10:23 am |
        • Heads Up

          bibletruths,

          A WordPress word fragment filter is in place on these blogs. It looks for "naughty" words like "t.it" in other words like "const.itution" and "cu.m" in "doc.ument", etc.. Your content is not the issue. Don't be paranoid.

          August 22, 2013 at 11:52 am |
        • bibletruths107

          Thanks for explaining!

          August 22, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • saggyroy

      But he was a holy man....ya gotta give 'em points for that.

      August 22, 2013 at 6:59 am |
  19. Lionly Lamb

    While I am painfully aware that everyone believes me to be the biggest retard to post majestic vocalizations incarnated from wisdoms garnered throughout the mountainous plains of existence. You should be thankful of the granting forthwith from above imparted below as The Lord has gifted via my words into the hearts of the unworthy.

    August 21, 2013 at 8:54 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      You're fine, LL. Your efforts are appreciated.

      August 21, 2013 at 8:58 pm |
    • lamelionheart

      I guess it's time for me to change into true blue due the pilfering of name stealers...

      August 21, 2013 at 9:46 pm |
  20. Dyslexic doG

    John Paul and John
    we're making them a saint
    though bosses in their old boy's club
    true angels they aint

    the cover ups of heinous crimes
    enough to make you faint
    should not earn them canonization
    but a godly kick in the taint!

    August 21, 2013 at 8:51 pm |
    • Jeff

      Is it bulbous?

      August 21, 2013 at 11:07 pm |
      • Doobs

        Only after you kick it.

        August 21, 2013 at 11:16 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.