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August 24th, 2013
08:40 AM ET
Should Christianity be so boring?
(CNN) - No one has ever accused us Christians of being fun. No one has ever said we are a laugh-filled group. No atheist has ever said, “I might not love Jesus, but his followers sure know how to party!” And yet, in my favorite story in the Bible we actually see Jesus paint the opposite picture.
If you’re a Christian, you’ve heard the Parable of the Prodigal Son in the Gospel of Luke referenced in approximately 42 million sermons. If you’ve missed it though, allow me to summarize. A young son said to his dad, who represents God, “I want my inheritance.” This was the cultural equivalent of saying, “I wish you were dead!” The father gives him the money. The son immediately runs off to the Jersey shore and fist pumps the night away with 4 Loko and Skrillex. [Not a direct translation.] After squandering all the money and awakening in a pig pen, the son devises a plan. He will come home, apologize and throw himself at the mercy of the father. His greatest hope is that the father will let him be a servant. He can’t even imagine getting to keep the title “son.” He comes home expecting punishment, but instead something weird happens. The father sees him from a distance and sprints toward him. He runs toward him and embraces him. Before the son can even get his whole apology out, the father has already started planning the last thing he expected. A party. Instead of punishment he gets a party. The idea that God fixes problems with parties is crazy. Who does that? Life doesn’t work that way. Imagine that you messed up at work. Your boss called you in and said, “Johnson you lost our biggest account! You just cost this company more than 3 million dollars. You know what that makes me want to do? Throw you a party!” Or think about this in the context of a marriage. Have you ever had an argument with your spouse? Not a fake argument but one that lands you on the couch overnight. You come into the kitchen and your wife is doing that “mad dishwashing” move we all do when we’re upset. Just power scrubbing pots and pans with a vengeance, mumbling the entire time. You approach her slowly and say, “Heyyyy baby, how do you feel this morning?” Without looking at you, she takes a deep breath and says, “You really hurt my feelings. Last night, you really surprised me by what you did. My mom was right about you. I’m so angry and disappointed. This whole thing makes me want to get an inflatable bounce house and throw a huge celebration in your honor!” That would be ludicrous. Our worst mistakes don’t end in parties, but in this story in the Bible, it did. When given the opportunity to talk to a group of people, the picture Jesus drew of his Father was of a party giver; someone who met sinners with welcome home banners. What if Christians were like that? What if churches became the place where failures found new beginnings? What if we were known for our parties, not for our Pharisees? It all feels a little crazy, but I don’t think it’s impossible. Christians should offer hope in exchange for hurt, new in exchange for old, parties in exchange for pain. Are we there yet? Nope, we’ve got a long way to go. We’ve still got a lot of things to work through, a lot of progress we have to make. But when you think about the prodigal son story, I hope you will remember something. Two people moved. One walked. One ran. And we prodigals are the walkers. We still have a running God. And he is ready to throw a party. Jon Acuff is a keynote speaker and the author of four books including The New York Times best-seller, START. Acuff is also the author of the popular blog, Stuff Christians Like.net. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Jon Acuff |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Opinion by Jon Acuff, Special to CNN
Omnipotent = all powerful
Omniscient = all knowing
Omnipresent = exist everywhere simultaneously
Anthropocentric = primarily concerned with humanity
These are the attributes most commonly attributed to Abraham's God.
If such an enti.ty did indeed exist at the Prime Cause of all the Universes, then there is nothing that humanity could do that would be outside of the Creator's explicit wishes.
Everything done by humanity would be in accordance with the express wishes of the all-seeing, all knowing, all powerful Creator.
Free will cannot exist in such a scenario.
Well said.
Yes there is. I am going to let you figure it out.
Why did Sarah Jessica Parker's buttcheese end up in Scrotie's milkshake?
So, basically what you are saying is that the "Omnipotent" God is incapable of creating "Free Will?!" Hmm...
Here is the thing:
"Omniscience" DOES NOT interfere with "Free Will," simple as that. "Predestination" and "Omniscience" are two different things! "Predestination" and "Free Will" are mutually exclusive BUT NOT "Omniscience!"
Could an omnipotent being create a stone so heavy that even he could not lift it?
yes.
Whew...'cause that's what folks are asking to get the Christian version of free will.
@Vic
God is presented as existing outside of normal space and time – He is, after all, the Creator of space and time, is He not?
Therefore, divine omniscience/omnipresence encompasses experiencing all of space and time simultaneously and knowing everything, everwhere, eveywhen.
God knows everything man did, does, will ever do but DOES NOT interfere with it.
He also creates people, ergo he programmes them to sin.
@Vic
If god knows "everything man did, does, will ever do", then everything that has ever happened, or ever will happen is known by him. That is predestination, and in your own words, "Predestination" and "Free Will" are mutually exclusive
Vic
But God supposedly does interfere in people's decision making every time he creates a "miracle", or any "sign" that believers take as their personal evidence that he exists. By "showing" himself to only certain people isn't he messing with the free will process? I'd be more inclined to believe in him through my free will if he showed himself to be instead of remaining hidden. It seems rather unfair that he supposedly chooses who to show himself to.
Vic
God knows everything man did, does, will ever do
---–
You so BELIEVE. Your posts always have an arrogant air of certainty, even though you don't have the first clue whether or not anything you say is actually true. You can't know this for certain, no one can.
Except who really cares, since basic physics is incompatible with the type of free will Christianity requires.
I believe you are referring to "Quantum Physics/Mechanics" which atheists use to try to explain consciousness as a physical condition where some "fair and honest secular scientists" spoke clearly that it is above and beyond "Quantum Physics/Mechanics" to explain such matters and is futile!
Consciousness was pegged to matter as far back as Spinoza in the west and at least a thousand years earlier in India. Long before quantum theories. The relationship is well established in modern psychology and neurobiology.
And yet Doc if you look at history it will tell you that man has allways had free will.How could we screw up so much without it?
Now follow through the suppositions to their logical end.
1) An omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, anthropocentric God precludes the notion of free will.
2) Human being have demonstrated a capacity for free will.
Ergo: -----
"outside of the Creator's explicit wishes." so you are telling an all powerful being what can and cannot happen? That is funny.
If you’re a Christian, you’ve heard the Parable of the Prodigal Son in the Gospel of Luke
-----
"I have not heard about this. In fact, I don't even know what Christian means."
– signed,
a guy born and placed by God in an area of the world where christianity doesn't exist, but they follow an alternate man-made religion
For those who brought up the Bible verses about the world and earth "can not be moved," it is a "figure of speech" as Jim indicated!
"Can not be moved" is in reference to the "foundation" and means "can not be taken out of its place" and NOT "still." The world/universe and earth are in motion from within but are entirely "kept in place" (foundation) by God Almighty, the Father, Son (Lord Jesus Christ) and Holy Spirit.
Also, "light" itself was created on the "first day" of creation whereas the "sun" was created on the "fourth day!"
In conclusion, "not everything" in literature can be all "figures of speech" nor "literal!"
Comment History:
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Vic
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@Vic,
Just curious, but what exactly is Earth's "place" that it cannot be moved from? i.e. a figure of speech meaning what exactly?
Every single bit of this existence is held in place (foundation) that science CAN NOT explain how, from the space in between the nucleolus and electrons of the atom to the space between planets and stars and galaxies, what the ends of the universe tie into, and so on and so forth, to mention a few! Science is extremely concerned that this entire universe is held in place (foundation) in suspension by an UNKNOWN FORCE.
Glory be to God Almighty, the Father, Son (Lord Jesus Christ) and Holy Spirit. Amen.
Vic. Allow me to correct you. HAS not explained, not CAN not explain.
Science may not have nailed the culprit yet but they have a bunch of suspects lined up and God is no where to be found.
@Vic,
... but every single bit of existence CAN BE MOVED, can it not? We can split the atomic bounds down to elemental particles of quarks, leptons, etc. What is piece of the universe is "unmovable"? (Not to mention that we were speaking about the Earth, not particle physics)
Glory be to God Almighty, the Father, Son (Lord Jesus Christ) and Holy Spirit
-----
Even if there is a God, religion is still a creation of the human mind. Your claims are no more relevant than the claims of any other supporter of any other religion.
Ah, 'we don't know' so 'God did it'? ok, thanks.
Christianity is the belief that a god impregnated a virgin with himself, to give birth to himself, so he could sacrifice himself to himself to forgive the "original sin" of a couple we now all know never existed.
Atheism is the belief that the above belief is fvcking stupid
Why do you have so much trouble believing in miracles?
How is that a miracle? It doesnt even make sense.
Kaysi
Time to get my pepperoni pizza folks.
August 25, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Report abuse | Reply
Doobs
Enjoy. I just had a big burger and a margarita on the patio. Gorgeous weather today.
Life is good.
August 25, 2013 at 5:49 pm | Report abuse | Reply
Kaysi
You are so lucky you can eat pepperoni pizza! I can't have pepperoni 'cuz of the nitrates in it. They have a pizza place in the popular 1970s TV series, Laverne & Shirley, the purpose of the Carmine Ragusa character was to keep Lenny and Squiggy in line. The Lenny and Squiggy characters are arguably the best thing in the series.
The "Lenny and Squiggy" act was originally formed when both actors were undergraduates, attending Columbia University in New York City.
Because there is no evidence that miracles are a reality.
Why do you have such an easy time believing in something there is absolutley no evidence for?
If you think that believing in miracles is unreasonable, how can you believe that the universe began out of nothing? (Like: where did matter come from to start it all? ) Now that is a real miracle!
Who says the universe began out of nothing?
Well maybe you can explain where matter came from.
I can't. Please elaborate, who said the universe came from nothing?
You'er dodging the question.
No, I answered your question perfectly. You're dodging my question.
guest, we don't know where the universe came from. There are many theories right now, including several that put our time as having a beginning in a multiverse with a different longer or eternal time dimension. No one knows. Some of us can live with that, many apparently cannot.
guest
I see it all of the time. That same ignorant question. How did matter come from nothing. Stupid question. Seriously...stupid question.
It shows the ignorance of the asker in not understanding some of the basics of the sciences involved. First, what is nothing. There never really is nothing, second, you a$$ume there was " nothing" and no scientist works from that premise.
It seems only the fundamentalist religious people ask that, but then cannot say where god came from if he did not come from nothing. They then say god god always was, well then matter could have always been.
Using the " mattwer from nothing" debate is just not worth anyones time since it is a false premise.
If there is no “intelligent designer” matter had to come from somewhere; science would have you to believe that it ‘things just happened’ and excuse it by saying, “We’re working on it.” Come on, there can be no explanation in the way man thinks. It is more reasonable to believe that God is infinite, man is finite, if we knew as much as God we would be gods. (We don’t even know as much as Lucifer and he is a created being.)
Gibberish
guest
A$$uming there is an "intelligent designer", and there can be no other explaination. Is why you fail. Pointless to debate with such an incredibly closed mind. Good luck with your delusion, I'll keep hunting down reality.
There are two words in English that are used far to often especially when they are just opinions: Unbelievable & Miracle. Religious people claim anything good, any child recovering from an illness, any tiny bit of as yet unexplained becomes a miracle. It's like watching sports and the announcers say "unbelievable!!" about 10 times a game. If it's happening so often then it's far from unbelievable. Humans often see the divine in every low probability event regardless of how silly it would be for anything divine to intervene, especially in a sports game. I think they do this as a way to make themselves both have more faith and to feel more special. Not one single miracle has ever been verified by science so it's pretty hard to understand why so many people believe in them and I think the only answer can be that divine intervention is born in peoples egos.
Matter has always existed.
Miracles would be cool. The problem is that this particular one would be just plain silly. The god described has enough power to get his message across is a more efficient and fair manner.
If God did everything the obvious way, there would be no "test of Faith," Sarah; that would be a "giveaway!" Instead, He confined Himself to the "human level" from conception to resurrection.
Ignoring the ridiculous arrangement whereby god gets only the gullible, he also stacks the deck unfairly. All the folks that met Jesus or saw miracles get more evidence. Babies who die in infancy get a free ride. Heck, aborted fetuses supposedly get a free ride (making abortion the greatest gift you can give a child?).
I hear you loud and clear (figure of speech,) Sara, I think about it the same exact way! What I console myself with is that we do not nor are we capable of knowing "everything" about God's "Divine Will, Wisdom & Justice." Faith is the real test.
Vic, a test of what, how much you can believe without evidence or in the face of conflicting evidence? Why on earth would a god want to test one's susceptibility to being gullible and then reward one for it? Doesn't it seem more likely that the whole thing is fake and that you are just wishing a house of cards to stand?
Sara, I can entertain that all religions are fake for a bit but I CAN NOT for one single breath bring myself to believe that there is no GOD!
Vic, I don't know whether that's because your neural connections require a god concept at this point, because you don't want to believe it (perhaps having previously done so and not liked it) or because you just aren't very imaginitive (I'm not particularly imaginative, so not really knocking that).
A few years ago I would have encouraged you to try imagining a world without a god (if its not something you did in the past and gave up). But really, I don't particularly believe that that kind of mental flexibility is good for everyone or brings happiness. If you believe in a God I just hope you'll believe in one that allows you to incorporate modern findings in physics, biology and psychology. For all I know there may be gods...but I doubt they are made in our image like the Christian god.
Why do you have so much trouble believing in Skeletor?
Maybe I do believe in Skeletor, only by a diffrent name such as: Satan, Lucifer etc.
Satan is a character from Iron Age, Judean mythology. Skeletor is as real as He-Man.
Any way you can help a fellow Christian out and share this story. http://www.youcaring.com/other/upwardbound/82399. Bless you and praise be to jesus
Are non-Christians not deserving of Christian help?
no, but they may beyond our reach
Kaysi
Time to get my pepperoni pizza folks.
August 25, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Report abuse | Reply
Doobs
Enjoy. I just had a big burger and a margarita on the patio. Gorgeous weather today.
Life is good.
August 25, 2013 at 5:49 pm | Report abuse | Reply
Kaysi
You are so lucky you can eat pepperoni pizza! I can't have pepperoni 'cuz of the nitrates in it. They have a pizza place in the popular 1970s TV series, Laverne & Shirley, the purpose of the Carmine Ragusa character was to keep Lenny and Squiggy in line. The Lenny and Squiggy characters are arguably the best thing in the series.
The "Lenny and Squiggy" act was originally formed when both actors were undergraduates, attending Columbia University in New York City.
I don't know I often laugh listening to sermons from Matt Chandler.
Skeptics Welcome
http://media.thevillagechurch.net/sermons/audio/200709230900HVWC21ASAAA_MattChandler_LukePt1-SkepticsWelcome.mp3
Summary. Luke was a skeptic, so there is no reason to be skeptical. Atheism is just a religion. This guy is an idiot.
I got that Luke was very loyal to his lover Paul.
Kaysi
Time to get my pepperoni pizza folks.
August 25, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Report abuse | Reply
Doobs
Enjoy. I just had a big burger and a margarita on the patio. Gorgeous weather today.
Life is good.
August 25, 2013 at 5:49 pm | Report abuse | Reply
Kaysi
You are so lucky you can eat pepperoni pizza! I can't have pepperoni 'cuz of the nitrates in it. They have a pizza place in the popular 1970s TV series, Laverne & Shirley, the purpose of the Carmine Ragusa character was to keep Lenny and Squiggy in line. The Lenny and Squiggy characters are arguably the best thing in the series.
The "Lenny and Squiggy" act was originally formed when both actors were undergraduates, attending Columbia University in New York City.
Please take an hour to listen to it.
Actually only 35 minutes.
From the article:
- No atheist has ever said, “I might not love Jesus, but his followers sure know how to party!” -
I'm not sure what credentials that Mr Acuff has ... but he has a fundamental misunderstanding of atheism.
Atheists do NOT '.. not love Jesus'. The do not believe in Jesus.
I just cannot understand why this is such a difficult concept for Xtians to grasp.
I, as an atheist, do not HATE god any more than a Xtian HATES the Easter Bunny
I simple do not believe god exists. The same way Xtians do not believe the Easter Bunny exists.
I believe in Jesus, I just don't believe any claims of his divinity.
Schismatic atheism? How can it be true if you don't agree on the fundamental tenets?
Bill, What exactly do you think are the fundamental tenets of atheism?
You'd have to ask Dave or Dog.
I don't understand your question Bill.
Sorry, I meant Maynard. I'm sure Colin or some others would be glad to provide their denominations unbeliefs too. How does one choose the right un-church anyway? Seems like if atheism were true it would be easier to explain. Don't you guys have a book or something?
Yes we have a book. It's called Basic Logic for First-Graders.
Atheism means one of only two things. A lack of belief in god or a belief there are no gods (you can look this up in any dictionary). That's it. Anything else you think atheism represents is your own imagining. You might be thinking of materialists or something?
Dave, I'm reversing a common atheist tactic. The original objection is that Christina can't be true because there are so many variations to choose from that seem to be in conflict, even though agreement on basic points is present. You and Maynard have a disagreement on the existence and the nature of Jesus. So the question becomes "which version of atheism is true?". Extending that, "How can atheism be true if two un-believers cannot agree on what it means?
Point being that, of course, you and Maynard are free to interpret your unbelief to the degree you feel is accurate. Conversely, believers have the same option. Not everyone will be correct. But, the fact that people's beliefs lie on a continuum doesn't prove or disprove anything about the reality.
So, I would respect the logical, intelligent atheist to a greater degree who was able to abandon that original objection.
Belief in the historicity of Jesus has nothing to do with atheism, thus rendering your point moot.
My tenants of Athiesm are the same as your tenants of Easter Bunnyism
Tenets
'Tenets' - thanks for the correction
I really am a poor speller
Brother Maynard,
(maybe this will make it easier to remember)
Tenant = Renter
Tenet = Belief
Nice evasion. Thanks for playing.
Elaborate, please (if that was aimed at me).
It is because Christianity spreads the lie that belief is Jesus is more or less automatic as long as you are exposed to the Bible and that If one does not accept the claims of their dogma it is a choice. The author tries to insinuate atheism is based on church and church people being boring, it is, but hat is beside the point.
I think that's a good summary of how they think. The book of Mormon also states this explicitly. There's no room in their view for someone who read the book with an open mind, or was raised with it, and then was influenced tomreject it based on conflicting data.
Agreed cheesy. The authors premise is faulty. Some Christians are indeed boring. Others are not. Same as any large demo. Sometimes peace and stability seem boring when one is conditioned to conflict and chaos. A core view of Christianity is that we are engaged in a spiritual war. Anyone that has been to war can tell you that peace takes some getting used to.
The parable of the prodigal son is a powerful testament to the love of a father for his son, the love of the heavenly Father to his children who turn toward Him.
What a reassuring story for mankind!
Any father who'd sentence his childre to eternal torture for minor transgressions doesn't seem particularly loving to me.
Children
Dave, we don't know the nature of the eternal torment you mention. Many believe that it is the separation from God that creates the torment. I don't profess to know how all that works, so I will add it to the list of questions to ask God when I get the chance. I do believe, though, that it is a choice that we all are allowed to make freely, and not something to blame on God.
An omnipotent creator and free will are incompatible.
Ah, the free will myth cop out.
The reality in this theist view is that god created man and anything in his nature is a creation of god. The only things that could influence his nature to choose one thing over another are creations of god. But this makes god look like an ass for giving people eternal torment (of whatever form) for things that are his own doing. So the church creates this mystical "free will" where people act outside of determinism (and yes, outside a probabilistic determinism as well) to get god off the hook. What disturbs me as how many people fall for such obvious nonsense.
Rewards and punishments based on 'belief' is immoral. 'Belief' is not a choice.....That is a lie spread within Christianity to rationalize that nefarious premise.
@nclaw441,
Minimizing the punishment by claiming ignorance seems disingenuous to me. Otherwise, it would seem reasonable to say the same thing about the reward. i.e. we don't know.
It's up to mankind to walk away from His love. It's a freewill choice a person makes for themselves , knowing the consequences of the decisions they make.
We all make choices in life; some wise choice, some not. Every decision has a consequence. What wise decision have you made in your life, knowing that your decision has an eternal consequence?
That is the story in essence, a son walking away with a portion of father's wealth, becomes a prodigal, realizes the mistake and comes back to the father. This story has an happy ending because the wayward son realizes his mistake and goes back repenting to his father, in whom he knows there is forgiveness.
What a wonderful parable!
Actually, a son choosing to walk away with a portion of father's wealth
You're a fool for accepting that a god would have you tortured for not believing in it. It's the classic battered spouse/abused child syndrome...behave or be tortured....not much option there.
truth, calling someone a fool is not the most persuasive rhetoric, I suggest. God is who God is. We don't get to choose that. But I believe it is our choice, one we are free to make, but there are consequences to our choices.
You might despise a God who would allow the stove to be invented, because you might choose to put your hand on a burner and get hurt. Would you be right to blame God for that?
"You might despise a God who would allow the stove to be invented, because you might choose to put your hand on a burner and get hurt. Would you be right to blame God for that?"
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNsrK6P9QvI&w=640&h=360]
@NClaw
Stalin does not send anyone to the Gulag.
It is those who have hardened their hearts against him who send themselves to the Gulag through their bourgoise atti/tudes and counter-revolutionary actions.
This was not Stalin's plan at all.
He truly wants everyone to go to the Worker's Paradise and it grieves him that so many harden their hearts against him.
But he will not force anyone into the Worker's Paradise against their wishes.
He respects their free will.
If you don't want to go to the Gulag, just open your heart to the love of Stalin.
Sound familiar at all?
"You might despise a God who would allow the stove to be invented, because you might choose to put your hand on a burner and get hurt. Would you be right to blame God for that?"
1. Burning your hand is not an eternal punishment.
2. We're talking about a religion that punishes you for not believing and then gives only enough evidence to convince the most gullible and unthinking among us. That's more like a god who creates invisible stoves and lets you burn for acting as though it isn't there.
3. Your whole premise on punishment is based not on deterence but some silly concept of free will and what people deserve.
First off, it's still hatefully evil. Parents and children often become estranged, it doesn't mean the parent wants to torture the child.
Second, if Yahweh (I'm assuming you're an Abrahamist by the terminology you use) creates people, how is there free will? An omniscient, omnipotent creator would be responsible for everything. It's the ultimate determism. An omnipotent god and free will are incompatible. The Abrahamic god creates people to 'sin', then punishes them with eternal torture for these 'sins'. Sounds pretty disgusting to me.
Dave, so an omnipotent God cannot create humans with free will? My definition of omnipotence and yours differ...
An omnipotent and omniscient creator is responsible for everything that gappens in its creation. The illusion of free will can exist but in reality, everything would be predetermined by the creator.
Happens.
More "free will" nonsense. Even if there were such a bizarre thing (which goes not just against facts but logic), would anything really justify eternal punishment from which you could not change your "free" mind at a later date?
So"Sara",tell us:what was the caliber of the gun put to your head that forced you to post your comments about free will(or your supposed lack thereof)? Oh,I forgot: Almighty God MADE you post it!! Sorry.
Iron helps us play.
Laurence, I don't believe in any gods. I believe the state of the neurons in my brain combines with environmental triggers yielded the output you saw. Really, this is basic science.
Wow,Sara.Your descent into stupidity is rapidly accelerating!Your neurons are forcing you onto the"Belief Blog"? Seriously? If you got drunk and ran over a child,is that the truly asinine defense you'd give,"my drunken neurons made me do it"?? What's wrong with you???
One in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Ah, Laurence, if I did as described, I would probably be telling the cop how I had been force fed alcohol, since I have never driven while drunk and am not predisposed to do so on my own. If I commit a crime or win a Nobel prize, of course the most immediate cause is my neural firing since that is the physical form of thought. But it is influenced by my family, culture and education along with inanimate objects, such as the alcohol. All are players in what is me and what I do.
Great lesson for the consequences man has to face in this life and the after for the poor choices they make.
Everyone has a responsibility to live wisely, if you squander away your life away knowing fully well that these CHOICES have an impact on your life in the now and for eternity, it's up to you to choose your path to eternity, you know the consequences of making a foolish decision.
Be wise, not unwise! Ephesians 5
Right, so god's OK with giving people all different starting points with regard to birth religion, IQ and culture. To buy that you'd have to believe every group statistically produces an equal number of people who avoid sin and choose the right faith. Worse, you have to ignore all the killed children and aborted fetuses who supposedly are advantaged by a free ride to heaven. Anyway you look at it a god who gives you only one life that determines eternity is a jerk.
Quit your cryin
hharri, It's not my religion so it doesn't bother me personally. It seems that most Christians can suck up the lack of logic so I'm not too worried about them either, except where some cause trouble for the rest of us.
The son in this parable made a foolish decision, his foolish decision hurt him badly, once hurt and nowhere else to go, he turns back to the father seeking forgiveness.
In this case, he still had the time to turn back to his father. This story could not have had a better ending as a prodigal makes his way back home to a rejoicing father.
All actions have consequences, all actions require responsibility. That is why decisions regarding life are critical.
It is up to the individual to make a wise decision.
It could definitely have had a better ending.
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DKV-fGjLU0&w=640&h=360]
Freewill is not a difficult concept to understand, we all make choices everyday in life. Every time you get to a decision point, you have to make a choice. Not all choices have the same consequences, every decision made has a outcome that is dependent on the decision made.
Same is the choice to obey, trust, follow God and accept his plan of salvation.
It is a decision you have to make for yourself.
Your decision has a consequence!
And every choice is determined by preceding conditions that ultimately trace back to god. This is not a difficult concept to grasp either...or it shouldn't be.
Free will is an easy concept to understand. It doesn't make it a reality.
Well, put Dave. Many things, such as the earth being flat have seemed obvious. Most people today still pick the wrong answer when faced with the Monty Hall problem. Subjective "obviousness" is about the worst method for choosing important beliefs.
Choosing God is a decision point in a persons life. Choose God and choose life eternal or walk away. There is a consequence for the freewill choice a person makes.
Sean, you're just repeating yourself and still using the free will concept we have rejected. Repeti.tion is not going to win us over. In your world God created both the physical environment and the physical humans that make up our nervous system. God, therefore, is at the root of causation. Even if you assume a quantum probability, this is still just probabilistic determinism. Address that or you aren't adding content.
You keep bringing up free will without mentioning how free will is compatible with an omniscient, omnipotent creator. Please explain their compatibility without referencing a specific deity. Please do this or I will assume you are either a troll or somebody so mired in dogma that you have lost all ability to spot glaring theological inconsistencies.
If you don't accept freewill choice in accepting God, it is a choice you make for yourself. You have to live with the consequences for the choice you make for yourself, denying freewill will not exempt you from the consequences of the choices you make for yourself.
OK, my assumptions appear to be correct.
Yep, Dave, it appears you were right.
Simply stated, I can't shirk my responsibility for my actions, there is a prize to pay for living unwisely. It is also a freewill choice which has consequences.
Repeting the word "freewill" over and over neither makes it real nor helps your case that you have an argument.
If this term really (normally written as two words, btw) has meaning and isn't just filler you should be able to talk about the issue using more precise words that explain the concept.
@ sar –
Do you have a point other than shirking responsibility for the freewill choices you make in life and denying the consequences you have to face in making those freewill choices?
How am I shirking reponsibility? I believe we are all responsible as part of a complex web of reality. We are all a part of the whole and. it is through our work, determined as it is, that theworldcan be made better.
It is your view that I am trying to point out in incoherent. But given that your reponse to multiple calls to explain you idea of free will, you have responded with a comment that uses it twice. without explanation, I have to lean toward the earlier suggestion that you are a troll. It would be a sad world if you really were that stupid.
You are free to live in denial about freewill choices you make in life. Your life, your choice. Do you live in some kind of fantasy land to deny that your decision have consequences.
Stop trolling people.
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ7PfdKRSNQ&w=640&h=360]
OK, Sean, I'm 99% sure you're a troll, but on the 1% chance someone actually is that dumb, I'll point out that I most definitely do think my decisions have consequences. Wow...I really hope you're kidding.
Denial is bliss for some tools!
Repeatedly denying freewill is not going to excuse you from the consequences for the choices you make in life.
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkPfSNoATcM&w=640&h=360]
Why would someone repeatedly come back to argue with you? I see a freewill choice that character is making for itself 😉
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4XXHaaiBA0&w=640&h=360]
Wrong Sean, as a Christian you let Jesus take your punishment which leaves you to be not held accountable for anything.
I find it a bit odd that this piece, recommending more "fun" in Christianity, came so soon after the one on Millenials leaving the church
https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/27/why-millennials-are-leaving-the-church/
Which to a large extent argued the opposite. Was this meant as a response, and, if so, why wasn't that made clear? Or is it just weird editorial planning?
So,Sara,again,tell us:Did the Millenials freely choose to leave the church,or was their choice chosen for them in ages past? Hmmm?
Let's forget all our troubles with a big bowl of strawberry ice-cream.
It depends what you mean by "freely". If you mean did they do so without threat of punishment, then probably in most cases it was "free". If you mean did they leave with the libertarian (nondeterministic) free will required by most forms of Christianity, then of course not, since that type of freedom is an incoherent myth.
Somebody once said, "Let it Be" and it almost reminded me so much of a singing group known as the Beatles. Great staying power those Beatles. Saturday Night Fever was great and of course Sgt. Pepper.
Fish, and plankton. And sea greens, and protein from the sea. It's all here, ready. Fresh as harvest day. Fish and sea greens, plankton and protein from the sea. And then it stopped coming. And they came instead. So I store them here. I'm ready. And you're ready. It's my job. To freeze you. Protein, plankton...
Religion is, by far, the biggest con that has ever been perpetrated on mankind.
There has been some research to suggest that the first shamans (who were the first religious leaders) were men who couldn't make it as hunter/gatherers, probably due to some physical limitation. Either that, or they were simply clever enough to dream up a way of getting the actual hunters to give them a portion of their catch in exchange for a service, in this case, magical charms.
I really don't see that much has changed since those times.
At America's Stonehenge in New Hampshire there is a tube near the altar that they think was used to trick believers into thinking they were hearing voices from the beyond. Likely not the only one.
we are exempting your con then?
"Colin",
I'm not the one who is conning people into ignoring their hypocrisy when it comes to believing everything in the Bible.
Ooops. Try again.
First they create the problem: Original sin. Then they market and sell you the solution: Salvation thru Jesus, we're the only ones who go it.
amen!
People generally assume everyone else is pretty much the same as they are. People who don't want to volunteer or help others convince themselves that everyone who does is in it for self interest. People who can't accept determinism convince themselves that no one else could *really* believe it. And people who have done awful things love a belief system that says that everyone else is inherently as bad as they are.
Hello. Everyone is invited to receive free downloadable music at... thetreasureofzion.com
Let's grow old and die together.
God, "No."
Tilted, unarticulated, frightened, misaligned and beautiful.
Worship it freedom of the freakish in the fashion fantasy; wrong door.
Then why the bones? Why the mangled images and wealthy gamblers?
Time to control and succeed; crayons in a box of pewter...
@Lolpithius
Your Highness, there have been trolls seen Nye on 5 mile from fort __> __> your a dick!
Some characters know what is going on, some don’t but desperately want to. There is an urgency and of course a twist.
Bha
Ram
Yu
To your heart, yourself be true.
Meant for lolpithyes. sorry
Kaysi
Time to get my pepperoni pizza folks.
August 25, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Report abuse | Reply
Doobs
Enjoy. I just had a big burger and a margarita on the patio. Gorgeous weather today.
Life is good.
August 25, 2013 at 5:49 pm | Report abuse | Reply
Kaysi
You are so lucky you can eat pepperoni pizza! I can't have pepperoni 'cuz of the nitrates in it. They have a pizza place in the popular 1970s TV series, Laverne & Shirley, the purpose of the Carmine Ragusa character was to keep Lenny and Squiggy in line. The Lenny and Squiggy characters are arguably the best thing in the series.
The "Lenny and Squiggy" act was originally formed when both actors were undergraduates, attending Columbia University in New York City.
THE ENTIRE QURAN CAN BE SUMMARIZED IN FOLLOWING VERESE:
WHO IS ALLAH THE ALMIGHTY
112:1 – Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One,
112:2 – Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).
112:3 – He begets not, nor was He begotten;
112:4 – And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him.
20:8 – Allah! La ilahla illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He)! To Him belong the Best Names.
THE BELIEF:
3:85 – Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him."
2:285 – The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [saying], "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." And they say, "We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination."
2:256 – There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.
And now returning to the 21st century with the truth of the matter for our sister and brother Muslims:
From the studies of Armstrong, Rushdie, Hirsi Ali, Richardson and Bayhaqi----–
The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:
( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)
Are you ready?
Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.
The First Five of the 77 Branches:
"1. Belief in Allah"
aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your self-cleansing neurons.
"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."
Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".
"3. To believe in the existence of angels."
A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.
"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."
Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.
Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.
Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.
"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings
be upon him) alone."
Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.
Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!
Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.
Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism..
Dear Reality:
Whether we live in 21st century or century of infinity the Quran will remain as it was reveled... whether one likes it or not... and it will fit in any society no matter how advance the society is....
You just described circular reasoning....congrats.
Only for the eyes of sister and brothers of Islam:
3. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.
This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, the Filipino “koranics”and the Boston Marthon bombers.
And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.
Current crises:
The Sunni-Shiite blood feud (e.g. Syria, Iraq, and Pakistan) and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.
THE ENTIRE QURAN CAN BE SUMMARIZED IN FOLLOWING VERESE:
Garbage in....garbage out.
I am glad to know that it was "in"... 🙂
If it would have only stayed there...
Islam is just another religion that brainwashes its followers to believe its narrative.
Kaysi
Time to get my pepperoni pizza folks.
August 25, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Report abuse | Reply
Doobs
Enjoy. I just had a big burger and a margarita on the patio. Gorgeous weather today.
Life is good.
August 25, 2013 at 5:49 pm | Report abuse | Reply
Kaysi
You are so lucky you can eat pepperoni pizza! I can't have pepperoni 'cuz of the nitrates in it. They have a pizza place in the popular 1970s TV series, Laverne & Shirley, the purpose of the Carmine Ragusa character was to keep Lenny and Squiggy in line. The Lenny and Squiggy characters are arguably the best thing in the series.
The "Lenny and Squiggy" act was originally formed when both actors were undergraduates, attending Columbia University in New York City.
The difference between me and the authors God is if I saw a child being ra.ped I would try to stop it
That is not a fair statement. A mythological being can't save anyone but you are real so you have a chance.