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Do Christians, Muslims and Jews worship the same God?
September 1st, 2013
03:26 AM ET

Do Christians, Muslims and Jews worship the same God?

Opinion by Jeffrey Weiss, Special to CNN
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(CNN) - Pope Francis surprised Israeli and Palestinian leaders last month when he invited them to a special prayer ceremony at the Vatican this Sunday - not least because religion has often been the source, not the salve, of the region's conflicts.

Still, Pope Francis offered his "home" - the Vatican - as the perfect place to plea for some divine assistance, and Israeli President Shimon Peres and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas dutifully agreed to attend.

"The Pope has placed it in this perspective: Prayer is like a force for peace,” Vatican Secretary of State Archbishop Pietro Parolin told Vatican Radio.

"We hope that there, where human efforts have so far failed, the Lord offers to all the wisdom and fortitude to carry out a real peace plan."

But Sunday's special ceremony at the Vatican raises an interesting question: When Francis, Peres and Abbas bow their heads in prayer, will they be talking to the same God?

After all, Jews, Christians and Muslims all trace their faiths back to a fellow named Abraham, whom they all claim was chosen for special treatment by the Almighty.

Not academic

The “same God” question is one theologians have hammered at for as long as there have been enough religions for the query to make sense.

The question is hardly academic, though. In fact, a number of politicians, religious leaders and scholars have expressed hope in recent years that a convincing answer on the God question might dampen the violence committed in His name.

Yale Divinity School theologian Miroslav Volf recently edited a book titled “Do We Worship the Same God? Jews, Christians, and Muslims in Dialogue.”

In the introduction, Volf explained why the title question matters:

"To ask: ‘Do we have a common God?’ is, among other things, to worry: ‘Can we live together?’ That’s why whether or not a given community worships the same god as does another community has always been a crucial cultural and political question and not just a theological one."

On the other hand, there’s CNN Belief Blog contributor and Boston University religion professor Stephen Prothero.

His book on this subject is titled “God Is Not One: The Eight Rival Religions That Run The World.”

Prothero writes:

“For more than a generation we have followed scholars and sages down the rabbit hole into a fantasy world where all gods are one … In fact this naive theological groupthink – call it Godthink – has made the world more dangerous by blinding us to the clash of religions that threaten us worldwide.”

In the world of politics, President George W. Bush asserted the unity side of the argument more than once in the years after the 9/11 attacks - often as a way to deflect accusations that America was at war with Islam.

Bush told Al Arabiya television, “I believe there is a universal God. I believe the God that the Muslim prays to is the same God that I pray to. After all, we all came from Abraham. I believe in that universality.”

Pope Francis invites Israeli, Palestinian leaders to Vatican peace talks

Pope John Paul II drew from the same rhetorical well several times.

“We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection,” he first said in a speech to Muslims in Morocco in 1985.

Looking for a more recent example? Consider the plight of Vatican envoy to Malaysia.

Shortly after he arrived there last year, Archbishop Joseph Marino said that is was fine by him that Christian translations of the Bible into Malay use the word “Allah” for “God.”

“Allah” is, of course, the Arabic word for God and is found in the Quran. The Christian translators explained that since most Malaysians are Muslim, it’s the word they’re most comfortable with and therefore the best choice for the translation.

But many Muslim authorities in Malaysia were furious. They say Christians are slipping in the familiar word as a way to convert Muslims. And conversion of Muslims is all but illegal in Malaysia.

There’s a lawsuit ongoing about the translations. Marino had to apologize for pushing into Malaysian politics.

Points of disagreement

So what do the “Abrahamic” religions disagree about?

Among other things: the purpose of humanity, the relationship of God and humanity, sin, forgiveness, salvation, the afterlife, Jesus, Muhammad, the calendar, and the religious importance of Abraham himself.

Plus the nature of God.

Any summary will leave out enormous nuance. Internal divisions within religions have fueled some of the worst examples of human violence. Consider the long and frequently bloody history of troubles between Catholics and Protestants or the growing death toll of Muslim-on-Muslim attacks.

But there are common elements about God widely accepted in each tradition.

Judaism

Start with Judaism, since it came first and established roots that carried into the other two.

Jewish tradition teaches that there is one and only one God, creator of everything, and He established physical and moral laws. As Judaism’s preeminent prayer says: “The Lord our God, the Lord is one.”

This God walks and talks directly with His creations – for a while.

Eventually, He chooses one particular nomad (Abraham) to father a mighty nation that God sets up as an example to other nations.

This God likes the smell of burning meat and demands other extremely specific physical offerings as evidence of obedience and repentance. And He gives His chosen people a particular set of laws – but doesn’t mind discussion and even argument about those laws.

A famous rabbinic saying implies that every word in Judaism’s sacred texts can be understood in 70 correct (but related) ways. And human reasoning can even trump divine intention. (No kidding. It’s in the Talmud)

This God judges His people every year. Tradition says he’s willing to accept imperfection, as long as it comes with repentance.

He’s big on obedience, not so much on faith. He’s not nearly as attentive to the behaviors of non-Jews. (There’s a famous Jewish joke with the punch line “Would you mind choosing somebody else once in a while?”)

Tradition holds that there’s a World To Come after death where moral accounts will somehow be settled. But this God is vague on details.

Christianity

The most obvious differences in the Christian God are the traditional teachings about the Trinity and Jesus. God is three separate persons who are also one. How? Christianity says the Trinity is a “mystery” of faith.

According to Christian tradition, God begets a son who is somehow also Him but not Him to atone for Original Sin. He sacrifices that son though a brutal death and thus achieves humanity's salvation.

But the son, who also is God, rises from the dead. And that sacrifice redeems eternally all who accept and believe in it. Faith, not behavior, is the essential measure of salvation.

This God is willing to vastly expand what it means to be among His “chosen people.” He’s also willing to cancel many of the laws that had applied to that chosen group for this expanded membership.

Orthodox Jews say that God prohibits them from eating a cheeseburger; Christians say God has no problem with them wolfing down Big Macs.

Unlike the Jewish God, whose instructions are almost all about this world, the Christian God is focused more on eternal salvation: heaven and hell.

Finally, for this God, much of the Jewish scriptures (which are all God’s word) are actually about foreshadowing Jesus. Including Abraham.

Islam

The Muslim God is a bit more like the Jewish God.

There is no Trinity in Muslim tradition. Jesus was a prophet, but no more divine than other prophets.

God has never has had anything like physical attributes and has no gender. (Some Muslim commentators say that the noun “Allah” is masculine, but only in the way that all nouns in some languages include gender.)

Muslim tradition holds that God wants one thing from humans: Submission. The word “Islam” is defined as “submission to the will of God.”

For Muslims, all true prophets in Jewish and Christian traditions were actually Muslim because they knew to submit correctly to God. Differences between Muslim, Jewish and Christian interpretations of God are due to errors that crept into the other two faiths, Islam teaches.

The Muslim God, like the other two, initially demanded that Abraham sacrifice a son. But the Muslim God wanted Abraham’s son Ishmael, not Isaac, who Jewish tradition holds was offered as a the sacrifice.

The Muslim God also designated, from before the world began, a perfect man to be his final prophet: Muhammad. God’s perfect truths are found only in the Quran and in the sayings of Muhammad, the hadiths.

And the Muslim God, like the Christian God but unlike the Jewish God, will welcome believers to paradise and condemn many non-Muslims - exactly which ones is a matter of much discussion - to eternal torment.

Final answer

So do Christians Muslims, and Jews, really all worship the same God?

In two major volumes on the subject recently published by scholars from various faiths and traditions, including Volf’s, the most inclusive response from these scholars is basically: Yes, and it’s our God.

This is not a new way of answering the question.

In 1076, Pope Gregory VII wrote this to a Muslim leader: “We believe in and confess one God, admittedly, in a different way…”

But like many other religious leaders on all sides of the argument, Gregory insisted that his version of the Almighty is the one whom the others are unknowingly and incompletely worshiping.

A less exclusivist set of religions might shrug off the differences. But all three claim to have the only “True Faith.”

So do all three faiths actually worship the same deity, whether they call him God or Allah or Adonai?

God only knows.

Jeffrey Weiss is an award-winning religion reporter in Dallas.The views expressed in this column belong to Weiss. A version of this story first ran in September 2013. 

CNN's Daniel Burke contributed to this article. 

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • History • Islam • Judaism • Muslim • Religious violence • Torah • Vatican

soundoff (7,438 Responses)
  1. Doris

    Theo: "when this universe was nothing"

    That seems like a contradiction in the way I believe you mean it. I'm pretty sure "truthfollower" would say it's a contradiction.

    June 9, 2014 at 4:16 pm |
  2. bostontola

    The universe, by definition, is everything. That includes any God(s). If God is eternal, then the universe is eternal, even if at some point the universe was composed of only God.

    In that context, the assertion of Abrahamic religions is that 1 God created the physical world(s). There is no way to know if that was true, but if there is an eternal universe, then it could much more easily have been natural with no God beings. Why? The universe is either 1. A God plus all the physical worlds, or 2. All the physical worlds. 2 is simpler, i.e. it requires less information to describe and it does not violate any physical or logical law. That doesn't prove that 2 is correct, just that it is a simpler explanation that is consistent with everything known.

    June 9, 2014 at 4:14 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      It is amazing how many arguments go off on a tangent simply because people want to argue the definitions of words. I like this argument, but you'll find more people will take your post and argue the defintion of the word "universe". I prefer to start by differentiating between "existance" and "the observable universe". That is to imply that perhaps the observable universe had a beginning, but not all of existance.

      June 9, 2014 at 4:22 pm |
      • bostontola

        OK with me, but I deliberately left out the word observable.

        June 9, 2014 at 4:30 pm |
        • lunchbreaker

          Personally I am with you on that. I just noticed a lot of people don't see it tthat way, and two of the most important rules of writing are: never be boring, and write for your audience.

          June 9, 2014 at 4:47 pm |
      • Alias

        That depends on what the menaing of the word 'is' is.

        June 9, 2014 at 4:31 pm |
    • truthfollower01

      Your statements are wrong in many respects. Take your opening statement.

      "The universe, by definition, is everything. That includes any God(s)."

      Why can't God have existed eternally in the past outside the universe? In fact, this is the Christian position. That God, an immaterial, spaceless and timeless Being created matter and space-time.

      "God is eternal, then the universe is eternal,"

      Doesn't follow. First premise breaks down. Also, science tells us that the universe had a beginning at the Big Bang. If the universe is eternal, why didn't it reach heat death an eternity ago?

      June 9, 2014 at 10:14 pm |
      • hotairace

        Of course, the christian position is merely their belief with no factual basis. Religion: myths invented by simple desert dwellers, with lies piled on top of lies, believed by mentally ill fools, pretending to know things they do not.

        June 9, 2014 at 10:31 pm |
  3. Reality

    Salero, Theo and answeringscot,

    For your perusal once again. We await your rebuttal with proper references.

    Tis mind boggling that your religions can be brought down to earth in less than ten seconds.
    Again for the new members:

    Putting the kibosh on all religion in less than ten seconds: Priceless !!!

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e. the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

    • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

    • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

    • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

    • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

    • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

    Details were previously provided.

    A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.

    e.g. Taoism

    "The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.

    Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "

    June 9, 2014 at 4:13 pm |
    • Theo Phileo

      I'll tell you what. I'll rebut your statement when you give me solid proof that Jesus didn't rise from the dead.

      June 9, 2014 at 4:24 pm |
      • Madtown

        Right after you give solid proof that Kris Kringle does not reside at the North Pole.

        June 9, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
      • Reality

        From the experts (Note even JPII and Aquinas did not believe that Jesus rose from the dead. Instead they went with the "spirit state" to explain that there is no physical heaven and therefore no bodies can reside therein.

        Saving Theo et al from the Resurrection Con :

        From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

        Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

        To wit;

        From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:

        "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
        Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

        Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

        Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

        The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

        Only Luke's Gospel records it. The Assumption ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

        "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
        http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

        With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

        o An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,
        o
        p.4
        o "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

        o p.168. by Ted Peters:
        Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

        o So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

        June 9, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Reality,
          Do not attempt to argue your point with the Bible. You do not understand the Bible, therefore you dive headfirst into unknown waters when you wrangle with the text.

          1 Corinthians 15:1-58 –

          1)The gospel says that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures (vs 1-4)

          1 Peter 3:18 – during the crucifixion when Christ died – Jesus died in the flesh, but his deity was alive “alive in the spirit” (a Spirit cannot die, therefore when a verse says “raise from the dead” it can only refer to a bodily resurrection)

          Acts 26:22-23 – The OT tells that Christ was to suffer, and be resurrected from the dead (Psalm 22, Isaiah 53, Psalm 16:10, compare with Acts 13:30-37)

          Psalm 16:10 – nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay

          Acts 13:30-37 – God raised Him from the dead

          Acts 1:3 – to these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering…

          Galatians 1:1 – God the Father, who raised Him from the dead…

          1 Corinthians 15:5-8 – eye witnesses to the bodily resurrection of Jesus

          Luke 24:34 – “The Lord has really risen and has appeared to Simon.”

          2)If Christ was not resurrected from the dead, then our faith is in vain (vs 12-19)

          Only false witnesses teach that Christ was not raised from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:15-19)

          Salvation is based on our belief that Jesus was raised from the dead (Romans 10:9-10)

          Through baptism, we symbolically relate ourselves to Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 6:3-5, Colossians 2:12)

          3)Christ’s resurrection precipitates and guarantees that all of the saints who die will be resurrected also (vs 20-28)

          John 14:19 – After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. (His resurrection guarantees our resurrection)

          1 John 3:2 – …we will be like Him, because we will see Him as He is

          4)In the resurrection, we will have bodies, but made imperishable, from earthy to heavenly (vs 35-49)

          The resurrected heavenly body will still be a body, but will be different than the earthly body (vs 38-40)

          Using a “seed” analogy: we are sown a perishable body, raised an imperishable, sown in dishonor, raised in glory, sown in weakness, raised in power, sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body (vs 42-44)

          If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body (v 44)

          John 12:24 – Jesus uses the seed analogy for Himself

          Romans 8:23 – we have been spiritually redeemed, but we are promised the redemption of our bodies

          2 Corinthians 5:1-4 – Paul tells us that a spirit without a body is naked, so the idea that a Spirit could exist eternally without a body is not at all akin to Christianity.

          Philippians 3:20-21 – …The Lord Jesus Christ who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory…

          5)Our bodies will be raised imperishable at “the last trumpet” (vs 50-58)

          1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 – For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

          John 5:28-29 – for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment

          John 6:44 – …and I will raise him up on the last day

          John 11:24 – …he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day

          Daniel 12:13 – But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age

          Spirit and body are separated at death; the spirit goes to be with God, while the body goes into the ground to decay and await the resurrection

          June 10, 2014 at 8:12 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          Reality,
          I know that liberal theologians question the Bible, but then, that's what unsaved people do, so you can't blame them for it I guess. The fact is that they just don't have any understanding.

          2 Corinthians 5:1-5 – For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

          Paul uses the analogy of the tabernacle that was set up in the desert among the people of Israel as they wandered in the wilderness. When the people of Israel finally settled in the land, they no longer erected a tent, but rather a temple was built – far more splendorous than any tent could ever be. Similarly, when this tent of our mortal lives is torn down in death, God has made for us a temple far more splendorous than this mortal body could ever be.

          He further states that a spirit without a body is naked, and it will not be so in eternity – we will have bodies that are far more splendorous than this mortal body could ever be, just as a temple is far greater than any tent could ever be.

          June 10, 2014 at 8:15 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          Scripture teaches that the believer, while in the presence of the Lord, will not receive his glorified body until a later time. Upon death, our bodies go into the grave and await the second coming of Christ (1 Thess. 4:16), when He will raise and transform them (1 John 3:2).

          The apostle Paul speaks of the time when our spirits will be again united with our bodies so that we will no longer be naked (2 Cor. 5:3) but able to live throughout eternity in the form God created us to enjoy. The new body of the Christian is yet future, though each deceased saint is now in the presence of the Lord.

          June 10, 2014 at 8:18 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          Old Testament references to a bodily resurrection:

          Ezekiel 37:11-12 – Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.’ Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.

          God uses the analogy of a bodily resurrection that he might illustrate the national resurrection of his people Israel. This was not a stretch for the people, because they believed in a personal resurrection, they could believe in a national resurrection

          Psalm 16:9-11 – Therefore my heart is glad and my glory rejoices; my flesh also will dwell securely. For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay. You will make known to me the path of life; in Your presence is fullness of joy; in Your right hand there are pleasures forever.

          Here, David explains his assurance that he is going to go into Sheol, the grave, but that he is not going to stay there, but that he will go through it and into the presence of God. Not only was this a statement of his own confidence, but it was also a Messianic prophecy predicting the resurrection of Christ

          Psalm 17:15 – As for me, I shall behold Your face in righteousness; I will be satisfied with Your likeness when I awake.
          Psalm 49:15 – But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol, for He will receive me. Selah
          Psalm 73:24 – With Your counsel You will guide me, and afterward receive me to glory.
          Psalm 139:8 – If I ascend to heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.
          Hosea 6:1-2 – “Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bandage us. “He will revive us after two days; He will raise us up on the third day, that we may live before Him.
          Daniel 12:2 – Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

          In this verse, we see not only a resurrection unto eternal life, but also a resurrection unto eternal condemnation (See John 5:25-29)

          Hebrews 11:19 – (speaking of the faith of Abraham) He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.
          Job 19:25-27 – “As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last He will take His stand on the earth. “Even after my skin is destroyed, yet from my flesh I shall see God; whom I myself shall behold, and whom my eyes will see and not another. My heart faints within me!
          Isaiah 26:19 – Your dead will live; their corpses will rise. You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, for your dew is as the dew of the dawn, and the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.
          Hosea 13:14 – Shall I ransom them from the power of Sheol? Shall I redeem them from death?

          June 10, 2014 at 8:20 am |
        • igaftr

          theo
          Thanks for the book report, but it is still a fictional work, only with some historical base. Not the supernatural claims of course...those are baseless.

          June 10, 2014 at 8:32 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          "Thanks for the book report, but it is still a fictional work, only with some historical base. Not the supernatural claims of course...those are baseless"
          ------------------------
          You claim to be very well versed in logic and reason. In order for you to make the claim that the Bible is a "fictional work," I must logically deduce that you must have spent years in deep theological study as well as studies in comparative religion and philosophy to make your claim.

          Since science can make no authoritative claims in the field of cosmogony, answers to those questions can only come from two other sources, that being philosophy and religion. Obviously, if you have ever had questions about cosmogony, your studies would have led you there, and you would have had to answer the questions of their validity... Hence your decades long endeavor into the fields of philosophy and religion...

          Or you just have taken the words of others, and not done any research for yourself.

          June 10, 2014 at 9:10 am |
        • igaftr

          theo
          I have studied religions and the psychology of religious and other beliefs for over forty years.
          You are a classic case of self delusion, and claim you use logic when you don't, claim you have causation, when you don't even have a correlation, claim a creator, when nothing indicates one.
          I know the bible is fictional as I have been able to prove that much of the bible is false, so the rest is suspect. There certainly is nothing verifiable in terms of the supernatural claims, and by studying the psychology of the beliefs themselves, you can see all of the typical patterns. People want to believe so will "trick" their minds into baseless beliefs. It is the same thing with the superst!tions around sports, or carrying a lucky rabbits foot...people convince themselves these meaningless things have meaning. Religious belief is simply superst!tion on steroids.

          I have studied far more than the average theo, I just haven't bought the man made lies.

          June 10, 2014 at 9:31 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          "I know the bible is fictional as I have been able to prove that much of the bible is false, so the rest is suspect."
          -----------------–
          Actuall, no, you haven't been able to "prove that much of the Bible is false." You may have found justifications in your own mind, however.

          Have you read "The Bible and Archaeology," by Frederic Kenyon? Great book on physical proofs of Biblical claims.
          Another good one is "The New Testament Docu.ments," by F.F. Bruce.

          But I've mentioned these before. The trick to studying well is to steer clear of liberal theologians who care little for truth, and would rather render the text in as "politically correct" a manner as possible. This describes well the tactics of the Jesus Seminar and people like Bart Ehrman...

          June 10, 2014 at 9:54 am |
        • igaftr

          no theo, the myth of Noah never happened on this planet for one, and Genesis has the order of things after the Big Bang wrong. That is just two examples. YOU are the one who wno't accept the HUGE amount of information we have the PROVES beyond a doubt that Noah flood is pure myth.

          Men make up gods, and then create lavish stories to try to add validity to the beliefs. The psychology of belief is amazing, amiazing what people will convince themselves of with nothing verifiable at all. At least all of the proof the flood never happened is verifiable.

          June 10, 2014 at 10:15 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          "The psychology of belief is amazing, amiazing what people will convince themselves of with nothing verifiable at all."
          -----------------------
          I know, right? Multiverse theory, panspermia, gravitational singularity, quantum gravity, string theory, M theory... All beliefs with no verifyable evidence!

          "At least all of the proof the flood never happened is verifiable"
          -------------------------
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-H1gC7i4Q0&feature=player_detailpage

          June 10, 2014 at 10:45 am |
        • igaftr

          wrong once again theo.
          You try to play on the people will convince themselves" thing by stating a bunch of theories, which are not anyone convincing anyone of anything, they all are theoretical, postulates. not presented as fact until verified, and not presented to convince, only to explore the possibilities.
          Why so dishonest?

          You have convinced yourself of god, of things that were before the Big Bang. The existance of god is barely even a hypothesis, since there is nothing to base a theory on. Your claim that you KNOW is completely baseless.

          The theories you mention do not convince anyone...simply forwarded as educated guesses.

          try again, since you seem to have failed to grasp the basic ideas here.

          June 10, 2014 at 2:20 pm |
  4. igaftr

    yes theo, I imagine a god, and I imagine this god created everything. You said exactly the same thing.

    June 9, 2014 at 3:52 pm |
  5. I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

    theo, awanderingscott,

    all the arguments about 'a cause' for the origins of the universe are entirely moot. There are all manner of deist notions that will satisfy your requirement for some kind of causal agent, and none of these represent evidence for Yahweh/Jesus/Allah.

    June 9, 2014 at 3:48 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      KAPOOYA!

      June 9, 2014 at 3:53 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      GOPer
      your thc-laced imaginings don't qualify as sound logic and just because you have a scientific journal on your coffee table doesn't qualify you as a scientist. try being more mature and recognize that you have a creator just like the universe has a creator.

      June 9, 2014 at 4:04 pm |
      • igaftr

        maturity has nothing to do with it, and there continues to be no evidence of any "creator".

        June 9, 2014 at 4:06 pm |
      • lunchbreaker

        Whether or not there is a creator is a yes or no question, which falls short of which creator.

        June 9, 2014 at 4:15 pm |
      • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

        your thc-laced imaginings don't qualify
        ---------------------
        Your evidence that I have "thc-laced imaginings" is just as non-existent as your evidence for Yahweh/Jesus/Allah.

        It's too bad, too because I could actually prove there is no thc in my system.

        That the universe has a beginning, is not an argument for Yahweh/Jesus/Allah.

        June 9, 2014 at 4:55 pm |
  6. Theo Phileo

    "Then why are you asking that someone prove in a laboratory that nothing ever existed, you just said it did?"
    -----------------
    Allow me to elaborate.

    There was a time when this universe was nothing. But there never was a time when "absolutely nothing" existed, because God is something, and God has always existed. (even before time existed. And time itself was the first creation, since the wording of Genesis 1:1 is "in the beginning..." In the beginning of what? Everything, time, force, action, space, and matter...)

    When God chose to create that which did not exist, He did so without using any existimg matter. He created "out of nothing," but not "from nothing" since creation was "from" God.

    June 9, 2014 at 3:45 pm |
  7. Doc Vestibule

    that's a false statement. try being more logical.
    try picking up a scientific journal and reading it so you won't be so ignorant.
    you're not a scientist and you know nothing about quantum mechanics.
    you need to put away childish thoughts and start to thing more logically.
    start reasoning as a man does and put away your childish thoughts.
    please return to your vomit and don't try to sound intelligent, you're not.
    you've got absolutely no proof of that. your statement is FALSE.
    all you have is theory, like the theory of evolution. therefore you are wrong.
    your opinion matters not, you believe in God.
    you worship junk theology and therefore your opinion doesn't matter.
    no one cares about your opinion and it didn't get recorded.
    your opinion about the origin of man means nothing.
    mindless drivel.

    June 9, 2014 at 3:41 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      D0C
      i supposed i should be flattered that you took the time to copy posts i made and regurgitate them later but i'm not; however, i'm not exactly surprised since you also copy and paste the mindless ramblings of punk rockers like Bad Religion and then render them as useful scientific facts in support of atheism and evolution. please start thinking rationally like a man and leave the punk rockers for the 15 and 16yr old kids.

      June 9, 2014 at 3:57 pm |
    • igaftr

      Oh the irony of scot telling Doc to be more rational and mature.

      June 9, 2014 at 4:04 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      That I sometimes refer to Professor Graffin's PhD Thesis and books when talking about evolution may have something to do with the fact that it is directly related to the field of evolutionary biology.
      The quotes from BR songs are just because I think they're quite often on target and sometime quite poetic.

      June 9, 2014 at 4:05 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Mindless Punk Rockers.
      Greg Graffin – Bad Religion – PhD. Professor of evolutionary biology.
      Milo Aukerman – The Descendents -PhD. Biochemist for DuPont
      Dexter Holland – The Offspring – Master's degree in molecular biology

      Stupid brainless punk rockers with their PhDs and master's degrees.
      What do they know about the earliest vertebrate environment and some aspects of dermal skeletal tissue or the Opaque 2 function in maize? Those thesis papers mean nothing.
      They're atheists after all, working in the Satanic field of biology and pushing the baseless, unproven theory of EVILution.

      June 9, 2014 at 4:25 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      D0C
      true biology requires the subject to be alive. i do have respect for true biologists, fools scratching in the dirt and claiming to know something, not so much. PhD's in evolutionary 'biology" are found in cereal boxes, who are you kidding.

      June 9, 2014 at 4:33 pm |
  8. Madtown

    That's because the two of you operate on the same wavelength of illogical empty-headedness.

    June 9, 2014 at 3:39 pm |
  9. Alien Orifice

    Theo, why are you so adamant about this something/nothing business? Aren't the two sides of the same coin?

    June 9, 2014 at 3:33 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      AO
      – try following simple logic. nothing as a cause for something is schoolboy atheist logic. something from nothing that God made happen is the mature logic.

      June 9, 2014 at 3:38 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        Loop of infinite regression.
        What created the Creator and so on, ad infinitum.
        To place an arbitrary cap on the regression and call it "God" is no different than calling it a "singularity".
        The Universe doesn't work how we want it to work. We can only describe it, and chronicle its workings. God is an explanation for the reason behind the Universe's existence, something which is unknowable and has no relation to what happens in the Universe.

        June 9, 2014 at 3:50 pm |
      • igaftr

        Logic indicates you leapt to an unjustified conclusion. There is nothing indicating the existance of any god, so it is illogical to claim there is.

        Do you also need a course in logic?

        June 9, 2014 at 3:55 pm |
      • awanderingscot

        D0C
        God is eternal and therefore does not require a cause. The universe is not eternal and therefore does require a cause. why is it punk-rock worshiping atheists have such a hard time comprehending this?

        June 9, 2014 at 4:26 pm |
      • Doris

        wandering dolt: "something from nothing that God made happen is the mature logic."

        something from nothing that God made happen is manure logic.

        There – fixed it for you, Scotty.

        June 9, 2014 at 4:42 pm |
  10. anasmysterious

    yea..MUSLIMS,CHRISTIANS AND THE JEWS worship the same god
    i'd like to quote a verse from the HOLY QUR'AN relating to this similarity of the three abrahamic religions
    "And do not argue with the People of the Scripture(JEWS AND CHRISTIANS) except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." QUR'AN 29:46

    June 9, 2014 at 3:21 pm |
    • jknbt

      your Koran also says that all christians and jews who do not convert must be killed at the last day. Nope, my God did not call for that. Must be some other god.

      June 9, 2014 at 3:39 pm |
      • G to the T

        Have you not read Revelations? If that's to be believed the majority of the world will be killed of for exactly that same reason...

        June 10, 2014 at 11:19 am |
    • Alias

      It is the same god, they just dissagree about which prophets were actually supposed to be listened to.

      June 9, 2014 at 3:44 pm |
    • revealer003

      Jews, Muslims, and Christians do not worship the same God. I used to believe the same thing until I studied it a little further. Since Christians believe in the Triune God (God in three persons but of one essence) and Muslims and Jews do not, it is definitely not the same God. Regardless, I do not advocate violence against or between the religious groups.

      June 19, 2014 at 2:33 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        @ revealer..agreed..and also..the Muslim God has no sense of justice..it seems to be a whim...sometimes he decides one goes to hell..other times to heaven..no rhyme or reason...that's a god who changes....whereas Yahweh does not change..He is always Just..so yes...maybe same in "name" but totally different in character

        June 19, 2014 at 2:40 pm |
  11. Dyslexic doG

    Much of the christian belief is based on what the book character jesus ("god is three separate persons who are also one. How? Christianity says the Trinity is a “mystery” of faith.") said and did 2,000 years ago in the bronze age middle east.

    It's a delusional concept really. We have absolutely NO idea of anything the jesus book character may or may not have said or done. In a time when stories were passed on verbally and people had no idea of how the world worked and so wanted their "god" to be bigger and better than the next man's god, the stories just got better and bigger and more far fetched. You couldn't trust the accuracy or the authenticity of a story written down a month after the supposed happening, much less something written down the staggering 60 years, 100 years, 200 years after all the "jesus said" and "jesus did" parts of the bible supposedly happened. And even more laughable is that the "jesus" parts were written by people who weren't even there when it was supposedly said or done!!!

    As an example, the bible has THREE DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS of Jesus' last words

    MAT 27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

    LUK 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

    JOH 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

    It's your published "word of god". Does your god have a bad memory? How can there be differences?!?! And putting them ALL in your book just proves that they have no factual accuracy! Your book actually disproves itself and STILL you believe it!

    AND THAT'S JUST ONE OF COUNTLESS CONTRADICTIONS!

    It's all just so stupendously, mind numbingly asinine.

    June 9, 2014 at 3:16 pm |
    • Theo Phileo

      I'm not sure where you're quoting that from, but I have already addressed all of those topics you brought up in past responses. So why keep bringing them up word for word as if you never got a response?

      June 9, 2014 at 3:21 pm |
      • Alias

        Because your explanation was not convincing.

        June 9, 2014 at 3:24 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          It's not my job to be convincing. It's my job to proclaim truth.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:33 pm |
        • Madtown

          "Truth". But, God only allows a cross section of all the equal humans he creates to know of this truth. LOL.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:41 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Madtown,
          Show me what obligates God to reveal Himself convincingly to every man on earth.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:50 pm |
        • bostontola

          "Show me what obligates God to reveal Himself convincingly to every man on earth."

          If God imposes an eternal penalty of pain for not accepting him, then he is morally obliged to reveal himself convincingly. That's nice that you can easily see him, you are a lucky one. Should people with poor eye sight be penalized with a fate worse than death? I don't think a loving God would behave that way. An eternal penalty requires even treatment.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:54 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "If God imposes an eternal penalty of pain for not accepting him, then he is morally obliged to reveal himself convincingly."
          ----------------------
          No, God imposes an eternal penalty of pain because men are SINNERS and they love it so.

          He does not have enough knowledge to take him to heaven, but he does have enough sin to send him to hell – the person who never hears of the name of Jesus doesn’t go to hell because he has never heard the gospel, he goes to hell because he is a sinner, he is a monster of iniquity, willingly disobedient to his own conscience that screams to him whenever he does wrong (Romans 2:12-16) – and he loves it so…

          We read in Romans 1:18-32 that God gives the creation to all people so that we might know that there is a creator. God also gives man a conscience that he might know right from wrong. (Romans 2:12-16) The problem with the conscience is that it can become seared as with a hot iron and numbed to the existence of God because the sinner is in love with his sin; so the revelation from creation that God has given to us is intentionally suppressed by the sinner. Like a smoker who constantly ignores the ominous sign of a persistent cough because he is in love with the smoke, the sinner ignores the obvious fact of the existence of the Creator because he is in love with his sin.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:59 pm |
        • Madtown

          Show me what obligates God to reveal Himself convincingly to every man on earth.
          -----
          If God isn't obligated to show the "correct" religion to everyone, what makes you think you've got the correct version? Maybe God gave the real religion to a culture you're not connected with, and you're the one following the false path. No reason this couldn't be the case.

          June 9, 2014 at 4:10 pm |
        • bostontola

          Theo,
          I thought all men are sinners. Some accept Jesus as their savior, the others burn in hell, no?

          June 9, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "I thought all men are sinners. Some accept Jesus as their savior, the others burn in hell, no?"
          ------------------
          Yes, all men are sinners. The ones who go to hell have no interest in repentance, and no man can repent unless he first becomes convinced first that there is a God, and knowing the attributes of that God, are moved to hate that which even violates their own conscience.

          Repentance is given as a gift by God. To those who receive repentance, they hate their sin, and although the will never be freed from it in this life, their life is marked by sanctification – that is, they strive to be better today than they were yesterday.

          Salvation comes by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, and a life of repentance is the natural response that the sinner has to what His savior has done for him.

          June 9, 2014 at 4:29 pm |
        • bostontola

          Theo,
          I don't follow your argument then. If all men are sinners, and the only ones that don't go to hell are the ones that accept Jesus, then life and the afterlife are tilted in favor of the people that can more easily experience God. That is immoral in the context of an eternal penalty. That is why God would be obliged to equally communicate with all.

          June 9, 2014 at 4:34 pm |
        • Madtown

          Salvation comes by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone
          -----
          Except if God placed you in a region on earth where christianity doesn't exist, then you've never heard of Christ, and will likely go your entire life without learning the first thing about him. So, salvation clearly comes from another way, otherwise why would God even create humans and put them in these areas? What would the point be?

          June 9, 2014 at 4:39 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          "It's not my job to be convincing. It's my job to proclaim truth."

          Truth doesn't need proclamation...it needs demonstration.

          June 9, 2014 at 5:00 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      As well as having him die on a different day in John, and different times. In some gospels, they say he was silent. In John a long speech was given. They just made it all up. The Sanhedrin was never once in all of history called into session on Passover weekend. In Matthew it says "rocks were split, there was a great earthquake, and many of the saint who had fallen asleep were also raised". Really ? A veritable zombie invasion. What happened to all those zombies ? Why not one record of an empty grave ? Why did no Jew try to have the Romans go find and re-arrest him ? They go to all the trouble to kill him, then can't lift a finger to stop him ?

      I think not.

      June 9, 2014 at 10:28 pm |
  12. Alien Orifice

    When I look up at the stars in the night sky, it is obvious to me that there are many suitable planets where life has taken hold just as it has here on Earth. It makes me wonder if there is primitive life in the universe that worships gods in the same way many humans do. Perhaps the delusion of god parallels the development of the cerebral cortex in human being and has similar manifestations in other living creatures with the necessary intelligence. The question I ponder often is when (and how) does a species stop believing in fantasy as a whole, and embrace reality. Perhaps only evolution has a chance to show us, but in truth, mankind will likely be extinct prior to the removal of religion from our lives.

    June 9, 2014 at 2:37 pm |
  13. Alien Orifice

    Something can come from nothing; this has been shown to be true using quantum mechanics. The physics of the very small gives us insight into that which we do not yet understand, but scientists learn new and astounding things regularly. It is therefore possible that our entire universe was created spontaneously from the nothingness and will one day return to that total state of equilibrium. These are questions that we are privileged to have the capacity to ponder in our short lifetime. The lease likely answer to creation is a god or gods as this is lazy thinking and does not further man’s education about the universe. Unfortunately we will not get to explore the galaxies of the Milky Way and beyond after we die, so we had better do so now.

    June 9, 2014 at 2:20 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      your not a scientist and you know nothing about quantum mechanics.

      June 9, 2014 at 2:26 pm |
      • Alien Orifice

        Perhaps we should discuss sub-atomic particles together so we can learn.

        June 9, 2014 at 2:28 pm |
      • G to the T

        Again – you respond but add nothing of value. Is it that you are unable to respond intelligently?

        June 9, 2014 at 2:30 pm |
    • Theo Phileo

      And Robert J. Smith has mathematical formulas to prove facts about zombies... No, as with zombies, so goes cosmogony. If mathematics do not align with observable reality, then all you have are math problems.

      Being that zombies are fictional, everyone makes assumptions about them. Is it a virus? Are they just monsters? Are they cursed into being zombies? Is it magic? It all depends on who you ask, so if a scientist assumes that zombification is accomplished through a virus, then he can develop mathematics along those lines.

      The same is true of cosmogony. What assumptions are being made that directed the mathematics of those who would make claims to that which can never be observed? To say that something can come from nothing is to say that zombies are real. You must have observable reality to back up that claim.

      June 9, 2014 at 2:31 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        oh the irony!

        June 9, 2014 at 2:37 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          And yet Christians can stand firm on the foundation that men HAVE seen God. In John 14, Jesus says "He who has seen Me has seen the Father."

          The only rebuttle that I have ever seen regarding the claims of the Bible is that which falls into the camp of "it's just a myth" mentality. And yet, it is that same camp that readily admits that they have not put any amount of time into researching the reliability of the New Testament Docu.ments. They merely quote what others have said, having put no time into textual criticism, or in reading any of the research that dives headfirst into the question of the reliability of the texts.

          If all you have ever read has been atheist's websites, I'd be glad to give you a reading list.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:42 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          very good points Theo

          June 9, 2014 at 2:45 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          doG, LOL, I was thinking the same thing.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:46 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          "No man hath seen God at any time." (JOH 1:18)

          June 9, 2014 at 2:46 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          "Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)

          June 9, 2014 at 2:47 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          "And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)

          June 9, 2014 at 2:48 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          ""Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)"
          -----------------–
          Exactly. No man can stare into the unveiled glory of God. That is why every time in scripture that we see men interacting with God, He always presents Himself in some veiled form – either through a vision, or through a covering, or in the person of Christ. God always appears in veiled form to sinful humanity, or humanity would be undone.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:50 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          In all seriousness now you are confusing "visions" with hallucinogens Theo.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:53 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Alien,
          Unless you can show me "nothing," and then demonstrate how "something" can come from "nothing," then quantum mechanics proves nothing, and the axiom remains "ex nihilo, nihil fit."

          June 9, 2014 at 2:56 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          "And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)

          June 9, 2014 at 2:59 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)

          June 9, 2014 at 2:59 pm |
        • Madtown

          and the axiom remains "ex nihilo, nihil fit."
          ----
          Could very well be. Still, in no way does this even begin to make a case for the christian version of God.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:00 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          poor Theo. The bible is really indefensible but he tries sooo hard ...

          June 9, 2014 at 3:01 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Dyslexic,
          In this case, this is a demonstration of a Christophany in the Bible. And even a Christophany is an appearance of God in veiled form.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:01 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Could very well be. Still, in no way does this even begin to make a case for the christian version of God.
          --------------–
          True.
          But that topic, although defensible, would take a LOT of real estate in here to explain the case.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:03 pm |
        • Madtown

          would take a LOT of real estate in here to explain the case.
          ----
          Not sure I understand you, it takes hardly anything to fully explain the case behind rejection of religion: "We don't know for certain." That's it, that's all you have to say, because that is the absolute truth. It takes far more real estate to lay out a case for any one religion.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:10 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "Not sure I understand you, it takes hardly anything to fully explain the case behind rejection of religion: "We don't know for certain." That's it, that's all you have to say, because that is the absolute truth. It takes far more real estate to lay out a case for any one religion."
          ----------------------–
          There's a systemmatic approach in taking the claims of any religion and testing them for validity. It works for any worldview. It would take a few pages to lay it out, but the highlights are hit on in the book "Jesus Among Other Gods," by Ravi Zacharius. Check it out, it's not a long book, but a very good read.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:19 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          Theo. Your own beliefs suffer if measured against those criteria – show how a god created the universe and show how you know it is your god as opposed to the thousands of others.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:20 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "show how a god created the universe and show how you know it is your god as opposed to the thousands of others"
          -------------
          From the words of Jesus.

          And before anyone discounts the words of Jesus by flippantly making the claim of "oh, that's a myth," we can be sure in this modern age of the words of Christ as being authentic through the works of Frederic Kenyon, F.F. Bruce, Sir Robert Anderson, J.I. Packer, A.W. Tozer, and many many more...

          I wish, before taking the word of such liberals as the Jesus Seminar whose only determining factor of "truth" is what is most politically correct, that men would read from the masters – some of which are listed above – men who care nothing for political correctness, but whose only desire is for truth.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:30 pm |
        • Madtown

          taking the claims of any religion and testing them for validity
          -----
          The one thing every religion has in common with every other, is that they're all creations of the human mind. None are given by God, because none are fully accessible to each human God creates. "Test" them all you want, you can't escape this basic fact.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:33 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "None are given by God, because none are fully accessible to each human God creates"
          ------------------
          This is a recurring theme with you. Show me what obligates God to reveal Himself convincingly to every man on earth.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:35 pm |
        • Madtown

          This is a recurring theme with you. Show me what obligates God to reveal Himself convincingly to every man on earth
          ------
          You bet it is, because it shakes the foundation of your preferred religion, a fact you won't acknowledge because you're too far in, too bullheaded, or both. "What obligates God to reveal the truth to everyone"? LOL, seriously?! The fact that no 1 religion is fully accessible to all, means that each person has reason to believe his opinion is the "correct" one, which is exactly what we see. IF God created religion, he could rememdy the whole mess by making certain each human he creates has "his word", and there would be no question which religion is "correct". Without this, each human is subject to the culture in which he/she grows, and the prevailing religion in each. Besides, why would you "worship" a God that didn't treat his equal creations equally? If God isn't obligated to share his word with everyone, how do you know you even have the correct word? Maybe he gave the real religion to a different culture you have no knowledge of, and you're the one following the false path. No reason this couldn't be the case.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:55 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "If God created religion, he could rememdy the whole mess by making certain each human he creates has "his word", and there would be no question which religion is "correct".
          -------------------------
          You fail to see the possibility that God actually has a purpose in men on earth not finding truth.

          Romans 9:22-24 – What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory...

          "Without this, each human is subject to the culture in which he/she grows, and the prevailing religion in each."
          ------------------
          Yup. But a lack of access to truth does not negate truth. I can speed on my Triumph Thruxton, not knowing that it's a 35 mph zone, but the fact that I didn't know the law doesn't save me from being liable to the penalty of it.

          "Besides, why would you "worship" a God that didn't treat his equal creations equally?"
          -----------------------------
          Romans 9:11-14 – for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

          If a judge grants mercy, and clears a man of a certain crime by paying his fine, but not paying for everyone's fine, would you call him evil? No, because he is not obligated to save anyone. Instead, he chose (for His own reasons) to save a few. And that makes Him merciful. It also makes Him just in not saving all in that He is willing to punish lawbreakers.

          "If God isn't obligated to share his word with everyone, how do you know you even have the correct word?"
          -------------------
          Lots of research... But ultimately, His Spirit bears witness to my spirit.

          "Maybe he gave the real religion to a different culture you have no knowledge of, and you're the one following the false path. No reason this couldn't be the case."
          ----------------------
          When you have studied the theology of Christianity and its roots, then looked comparatively at every other known religion on earth, you'd understand that's impossible.

          June 9, 2014 at 4:18 pm |
        • Madtown

          Romans 9:22-24
          ---
          And right on queue, you quote biblical scripture as if this somehow bolsters the points you make. LOL.

          June 9, 2014 at 4:26 pm |
      • Alien Orifice

        LOL, Theo please do a little reading on the subject.

        June 9, 2014 at 2:43 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Please enlighten me how scientists have created "nothing" in a laboratory, or have observed "nothing" in its natural habitat, only then will I ever be convinced that the mathematics reflect truth.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:47 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          Believe what you wish.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:51 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Sure. I believe that "nothing" doesn't exist as long as "something" exists.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:54 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          You can't have something without nothing. There must be balance.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:00 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          Theo, I don't blame you for having a difficult time wrapping your mind around particle physics. Just keep it simple. If you dig a hole, the dirt has to go somewhere. Can you understand this concept?

          June 9, 2014 at 3:04 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "You can't have something without nothing. There must be balance."
          -------------–
          That may work out in mathmatics, but "nothing" doesn't exist. If at any time absolutely "nothing" ever existed, then how can there now be something? Answer, there wouldn't be anything.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:06 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          Theo, something CAN spring from nothing. That is my point. No gods are needed. Even if you can't digest the nothing / no time concept, you should at least admit that if there is/was something behind the curtain it isn't your Christian god.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:09 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "Theo, something CAN spring from nothing."
          ---------------
          Before you make an illogical claim like that, first prove to me that "nothing" ever existed by showing me "nothing" in its natural habitat. Or, show me "nothing" in a laboratory.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:13 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          Philosophers often throw around the phrase ex nihilo, meaning “out of nothing,” to argue from a logical standpoint that nothing can only give rise to more nothingness. Yet against all our convictions, modern physics is showing a different picture of how the universe works. All sorts of experiments have demonstrated that the concept of “nothing” perhaps is just our inability to actually see what’s really going on in a supposedly empty chunk of space. Indeed, it’s become clear that empty space actually has all sorts of physical properties, such as weight. The beauty of this claim is that it is a falsifiable hypothesis, subject to experimental scrutiny. Not only has this weight been repeatedly measured, it has more weight than you might expect “nothing” to have.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:22 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          Theo, Show how a god always existed; show how it is your god.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:27 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "All sorts of experiments have demonstrated that the concept of “nothing” perhaps is just our inability to actually see what’s really going on in a supposedly empty chunk of space"
          -------------------
          OK, I'm confused now. Are you now flip flopping and agreeing that "absolutely nothing" doesn't exist?

          June 9, 2014 at 3:38 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      "something can come from nothing" – this is an ignorant statement and you know nothing about real life. try listening to an older man with some life experience sometime so you can actually know something.

      June 9, 2014 at 2:32 pm |
      • G to the T

        "My bum's been a bum for a long time, but that doesn't mean I have to listen to what it says" – Old dwarven saying.

        June 9, 2014 at 2:38 pm |
      • Alien Orifice

        How old does the man need to be? Does it have to be a man? How about a woman?

        June 9, 2014 at 2:44 pm |
  14. Dyslexic doG

    "According to Christian tradition, God begets a son who is somehow also Him but not Him to atone for Original Sin. He sacrifices that son though a brutal death and thus achieves humanity's salvation. But the son, who also is God, rises from the dead. And that sacrifice redeems eternally all who accept and believe in it." – Jeffrey Weiss

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Who comes up with this stuff?!?! Proof that anyone can write anything in a book.

    Listen: there may or may not be some force that created the universe ... we haven't figured that out yet ... but it is not this god of bronze age foolishness that is so concerned with what people do while na.ked and so concerned that we praise him all day long and tell him how wonderful he is and so concerned with suppressing science and so concerned with meting out punishment and so concerned inanities like what you can eat and what days you can work on and what cloth you wear and who you can marry.

    And yet Christians use that creation thing as an escape hatch. They preach all this bronze age foolishness and judge, judge, judge people based on their story book but as soon as it is shown to be foolishness they panic and throw out "then who created the universe?" as if that has anything to do with 99% of their infantile fairy story book.

    June 9, 2014 at 1:40 pm |
    • bostontola

      Spot on.

      June 9, 2014 at 1:46 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      bronze-age men were smarter than you. you must have received a public school education. try picking up the bible and reading it so you won't be so ignorant.

      June 9, 2014 at 2:18 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        pathetic. really pathetic.

        June 9, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
      • Alien Orifice

        scotty, do you have any cats?

        June 9, 2014 at 2:26 pm |
        • tallulah131

          Leave the cats out of this.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:31 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          yeah, leave the cats out. see how your tiny brain tends to get lost..

          June 9, 2014 at 3:04 pm |
      • G to the T

        I don't doubt that the people of that time had just as much capacity for intelligence as any of us, however, they were ignorant (through no fault of their own) of many natural processes that they attributed to the supernatural.

        June 9, 2014 at 2:26 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          fire and brimstone consuming an entire city yet leaving surrounding towns unscathed is not a natural phenomenon. you need to put away childish thoughts and start to thing more logically.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:49 pm |
        • Madtown

          you need to put away childish thoughts and start to thing more logically.
          -----
          LOL. Awesome example of irony, thank you.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:55 pm |
        • G to the T

          "fire and brimstone consuming an entire city yet leaving surrounding towns unscathed"

          If it happened, there may have been a natural explanation that didn't occur to them (say a meteorite strike). You assume the testimony is trustworthy and objective. I don't.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:00 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          you're welcome Madtown. and since you're also known for making ignorant statements I'll feel free to bring it to your attention as well next time you say something stupid (which i am sure won't be long)

          June 9, 2014 at 3:00 pm |
        • Akira

          "Ad hominem is an argument of the weak and insecure."
          Princess Maleiha Bajunaid Candao

          June 9, 2014 at 3:06 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          oh and i suppose the other city also "just happened to be a victim of a meteorite strike as well" ? this is schoolboy logic for which atheists are famous. start reasoning as a man does and put away your childish thoughts.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:08 pm |
        • Madtown

          you're also known for making ignorant statements I'll feel free to bring it to your attention as well next time you say something stupid
          ------
          Please do! I'd love to see what you think consti.tutes my ignorance, by all means bring it to my attention.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:15 pm |
        • G to the T

          "oh and i suppose the other city also "just happened to be a victim of a meteorite strike as well" ? this is schoolboy logic for which atheists are famous. start reasoning as a man does and put away your childish thoughts."

          Again – you are assuming the testimony is objective and accurate. I'm not.

          Let's start again – what evidence do we have the for the destruction of those places outside of the bible?

          June 9, 2014 at 4:13 pm |
    • MadeFromDirt

      So Dyslexic, you admit that you don't understand what created the universe, and then you attack problems you see with what you think God is based on your admitted lack of understanding.

      Instead of creating a false god in your mind to mock, perhaps you would do yourself a favor to spend your mental energy considering the type of outside and eternal power that is required to create anything, why that power would create anything, why that power would give its created beings a will and ability to ponder existence, how that power would communicate with its creations, and how anything less than that power could co-exist with it in eternity. The answer that ties those big questions together is the person of Jesus Christ as revealed in the Bible.

      June 9, 2014 at 2:51 pm |
      • Alien Orifice

        It would make more sense to consider the absence of external power needed to make something.

        June 9, 2014 at 2:58 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          AO
          – unbelievable and willful ignorance. your schoolboy logic i will say is consistent; however, you need to start reasoning as a man and put away the foolish ramblings of an atheist.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:21 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          I apologize for challenging your simple mind.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:27 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          I can see how that might be upsetting.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:28 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          AO
          don't worry about, no challenge was presented.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:33 pm |
  15. Stein Wayne

    What's that gory looking blue thingy with its tongue sticking out on the banner? Isn't there some other image that is aesthetically appealing?

    Yikes!

    June 9, 2014 at 1:38 pm |
    • Akira

      Do you mean the hand that's holding the strings with the three symbols of the world's major religions?
      Does kinda remind me of a Blue Meany.

      June 9, 2014 at 1:47 pm |
      • G to the T

        I think he's referring to the article "9 things about hinduism..."

        June 9, 2014 at 2:02 pm |
        • Akira

          Oh..,you're right; still kinda looks like a Blue Meany though...

          June 9, 2014 at 2:04 pm |
  16. bostontola

    "The total value of the universe is necessarily zero. Therefore we came from nothing and we will return to nothing. Simple math."

    I don't agree with this assertion, but it does trigger an interesting thought. If there were a measure of the universe (including all potential multiverses), and some day we found a way to even crudely measure it, we might be able to distinguish a finite universe from an infinite universe. A universe including the biblical God would have to be infinite by definition (because the biblical God is omnipotent). A natural universe may not be infinite. There could be a way in principle to distinguish those possibilities.

    June 9, 2014 at 1:27 pm |
    • Alien Orifice

      If you make a hill, you leave a hole.

      June 9, 2014 at 1:30 pm |
      • bostontola

        True.

        June 9, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
        • believerfred

          You are making a mountain out of a mole hill
          God is eternal not infinite.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          @believerfred

          How do you know that god(s) is eternal?

          June 9, 2014 at 1:38 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          duh. someone had to create the universe, someone eternal. try thinking more logically instead of like a child.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:39 pm |
        • bostontola

          God is not omnipotent, all powerful? All powerful doesn't mean infinitely powerful? OK, I'll take your word for it.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:41 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          oh scot. I am glad you began that statement with a "duh". Such an asinine statement deserves such a prologue.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:43 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          D0g
          please return to your vomit and don't try to sound intelligent, you're not.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:47 pm |
        • igaftr

          scot
          "duh. someone had to create the universe, someone eternal"

          Duh...there is no indication that any gods exist , or that any gods are needed for the universe to exist.
          There is no evidence that any sentience is needed for the Big Bang to have initiated.

          You said nothing but belief, and there continues to be absolutley nothing to back up your hypothesis.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:49 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          Three scots were out walking through a forest when they came upon some tracks. awonderingscot said "I wonder if those aren't bear tracks..." and awanderingscot said "Nope, those are deer tracks!" and apanderingscot said "No way, those are tiger tracks!"...

          And they were all still arguing when the train hit them...

          June 9, 2014 at 2:06 pm |
        • believerfred

          Alien Orifice
          "How do you know that god(s) is eternal?"
          =>god(s) are man made so their time is limited to their creator (man)
          =>God as proven to exist by Spinoza is not encumbered with all the anthropomorphic attributes and simply is eternal.
          => The basic argument follows the typical understanding of boundaries to time and space. There is either something or nothing at the boundary of our time and space. It cannot be nothing because nothing does not exist. Something whatever it is must be within our time and something would also be within our space. Such a closed set without boundary is eternal. Mathematically it is the state with unlimited tensors with infinite length therefor it simply is.
          When Moses asked God whom shall I say sent me and God replied "tell them I AM sent you". Jesus said "I AM the way the truth and the light". I AM is the state of existence not a physical substance known to man and simply is. God simply is

          June 9, 2014 at 2:08 pm |
        • Madtown

          When Moses asked God whom shall I say sent me and God replied "tell them I AM sent you".
          -----
          Even if everything else in your post is true(it's not), you make a giant leap then by just as.suming it's the christian version of God that is "correct". No objective reason to think this.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:35 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @believerfred,
          Spinoza's "god" is not what, I think, you would consider God. His more a pantheistic god.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:39 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          "God simply is"

          What a wonderful way of saying nothing fred. If we start down that road anyone can say "The universe simply is" or "I simply am" without having to do any of the hard work of research and discovery. I understand that doing the research feels a bit like you lack faith because you don't want to undermine your preconceived beliefs, but that is the only honest thing to do as hiding your head under your pillow does nothing but show how little faith you actually have.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:48 pm |
        • believerfred

          Madtown
          Midwest Ken
          No, I did not intend to imply Jesus and the God of Abraham was the eternal state. My intent was to establish the substance of God as shown in the Bible to be the eternal state absent any of the theology that raises the hair on the necks of atheists. Any acceptance of the God of Abraham and Jesus as God requires faith not Spinoza'a modality of metaphysics or the nature of tensors in a quantum landscape.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:58 pm |
        • believerfred

          neverbeenhappieratheist
          How un-scientific to ignore the reality of God. The power and effect of God is evident in our very existence to this day without doubt. The substance of God that you suggest is imaginary would only be those attributes assigned by man which are without evidence outside of faith.
          Tell me what attributes do you assign to the substance behind existence?

          June 9, 2014 at 3:10 pm |
        • Madtown

          establish the substance of God as shown in the Bible to be the eternal state
          -----
          The bible, and any religion, is 100% unecessary to have a notion or belief in "God", or a higher spiritual/creative power. Religions, all of them, are human constructs. If God exists, it's extremely likely that no religion is anywhere close to describing the attributes or behaviors of God.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:21 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          "God simply is."

          "How un-scientific to ignore the reality of God."

          lol, you trying to point out who is being unscientific is just precious.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:59 pm |
        • believerfred

          Madtown
          I noticed that you are obsessed with the fact God presents to whomever and whenever based on who God is. On what basis do you demand everyone see the same image or that you should be entitled to see or experience God as I have?

          June 9, 2014 at 5:04 pm |
        • Science Works

          Fred do you think a salad dressing will help for your word salad ?

          June 9, 2014 at 7:05 pm |
        • believerfred

          Science Works
          We have traced the evolution of salads and food historians tell us salads (generally defined as mixed greens with dressing) were enjoyed by ancient Romans and Greeks. As time progressed, salads became more complicated. Recipes varied according to place and time. Dinner salads, as we know them today, were popular with Renaissance folks.
          Contrary to your theory however salads were created by intelligent design and did not simply form from inorganic matter evolving over time

          June 9, 2014 at 7:32 pm |
      • awanderingscot

        that's a false statement. try being more logical.

        June 9, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          You are a troll, yes?

          June 9, 2014 at 1:49 pm |
        • G to the T

          So you took the time to respond, but not explain? You sir, are a sad witness...

          June 9, 2014 at 2:06 pm |
      • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

        That assertion presumes a closed planetary system. It isn't.

        While planetary bombardment is likely less than in the past we continue to be subject to not only electromagnetic radiation but ionized and radioactive particle and atomic bombardment.

        We still really don't know whether the universe is 'bound'. Hundreds of billions of galaxies is a staggering amount of matter but it is not mathematically infinite.

        June 9, 2014 at 1:39 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      you're wrong, He is eternal and created the universe and everything in it. you need to put away your childish beliefs.

      June 9, 2014 at 1:38 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        and your source for this is a bronze age book written by scientifically ignorant desert dwelling goat herders ... right.

        June 9, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          those goat-herders had a higher IQ than you, please return to your vomit.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:48 pm |
        • igaftr

          scot
          "those goat-herders had a higher IQ than you"
          Something you clearly cannot know, so once again, you violate one of your commandments. For shame.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
  17. Alien Orifice

    It is very unlikely that a god created the universe. In order for this to have happened, there would need to be time in which a god could create. Unfortunately for the religious, there was no time prior to the big bang, so a god was not necessary or even possible.

    June 9, 2014 at 1:09 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      you've got absolutely no proof of that. your statement is FALSE.

      June 9, 2014 at 1:23 pm |
      • Alien Orifice

        I agree, but it is logical. Do you have a different theory?

        June 9, 2014 at 1:24 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          all you have is theory, like the theory of evolution. therefore you are wrong.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          Evolution has been proven. Only an ignoramus would think otherwise. It is a proven scientific theory. You may need to look that up.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          A theory is what one or more hypotheses become once they have been verified and accepted to be true. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. Unfortunately, even some scientists often use the term "theory" in a more colloquial sense, when they really mean to say "hypothesis."

          Germ theory is just a theory, therefore germs don't exist.
          Gravity is just a theory – intelligent falling is therefore true.
          Relativity is just a theory, therefore all of modern physics is wrong.

          See you ridiculous you sound?

          June 9, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          as your name implies, you are. evolution has never been proven. grow up.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:29 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Scot
          In over 100 years, nobody has falsified any of the 5 laws of Darwinian evolution.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          Germ theory is just a theory, therefore germs don't exist.
          Gravity is just a theory – intelligent falling is therefore true.
          Relativity is just a theory, therefore all of modern physics is wrong.

          you have posted this ad nauseum, but you are wrong. germs have been seen, gravity has been proven, relativity has been proven by math, evolution has been disproven by God. you hold onto childish notions.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
        • igaftr

          scot
          "evolution has been disproven by God" ok...this should be good. When , where?
          Please show this "proof" ( note that the words in the bible are written by men, and no god has ever been verified to have had anything to do with it)

          You will first need to prove this "god" of yours of course, but since you sound so confident, it couldn't be that you are once again are having trouble distinguishing belief from reality.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:36 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          proof is all around you. try going outside once in awhile. you must be a product of public schools.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:42 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          scotty, you are saying that since you can see something, god made it. That is not logical.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          wandering, What evidence do you have that a god created what can be seen outside?

          June 9, 2014 at 1:46 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Alien: Getting in to a conversation with awanderingscot about evolution is pointless. He has been shown numerous times why he is wrong about evolution and yet he keeps denying it...he's intellectually dishonest, wilfully ignorant.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:47 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          @TruthPrevails1

          scotty seems to be a troll...?

          June 9, 2014 at 1:54 pm |
        • igaftr

          yes scot, there are things all around me...that only shows the things exist, no how they came to be, so again, where did god prove it?

          Do you understand how a cause and effect relationships work?

          You don't even have a correlation, let alone a causation.

          Try again scot...

          June 9, 2014 at 1:55 pm |
      • Alien Orifice

        What I have noticed about you scotty, besides your sparkling personality, is that you offer no debate or thoughtful posts. Everything you write is just an attack. Not a good showing.

        June 9, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          you offer no meaningful insight to matters that thoughtful people discuss, therefore you are irrelevant.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          I would love to discuss something with you so that I won't be irrelevant. What would you like to talk about?

          June 9, 2014 at 1:29 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          i only discuss important matters with rational people.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:34 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          IF I were a rational person, what would we talk about?

          June 9, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
        • doobzz

          "i only discuss important matters with rational people."

          That would exclude talking to yourself.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:38 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          "doobzz"
          smoking dope does not improve the intellect. please don't be high when you join blogs.

          June 9, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
        • G to the T

          LOL... "smoking dope" – Does anyone actually say that anymore?

          June 9, 2014 at 2:16 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          "you offer no debate or thoughtful posts."

          How can awanderingscot offer something he does not have? You might as well ask Kim Kardashian to debate Stephen Hawking.It would look something like this:

          Hawking "But Kim, don't you realize we are in danger of destroying ourselves by our greed and stupidity. We cannot remain looking inwards at ourselves on a small and increasingly polluted and overcrowded planet."

          Kardashian "How cute, your voice is like a robot, Meep Moop Meep, ha ha, I love it...."

          June 9, 2014 at 2:17 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          Hawking "My goal is simple. It is a complete understanding of the universe, why it is as it is and why it exists at all."

          Kardashian "We have U-verse and cable i think... honey? We have U-verse right? This guy wants to know how much it is..."

          June 9, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
        • Alien Orifice

          @nbha

          LOL

          June 9, 2014 at 2:25 pm |
        • toleranceofall

          Hawking "My goal is simple. It is a complete understanding of the universe, why it is as it is and why it exists at all."

          Kardashian "We have U-verse and cable i think... honey? We have U-verse right? This guy wants to know how much it is..."

          Ok – this is hysterical!

          June 9, 2014 at 3:21 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Tot: I think you have that mixed up...you're the one suffering from the effects of addiction, not doobz. Now be a good little troll and run back to your bridge before FACTS squash you under foot.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:52 pm |
    • jknbt

      if you are interested in knowing about God the Creator, do a google search and go to this great website

      reasons to believe . org

      I have studied a lot of what they say....it was interesting to watch the Cosmos series on fox tv....they dealt with a lot of the things that the scientific creationism group has to say....they are studying their stuff, perhaps you should too...

      June 9, 2014 at 1:41 pm |
      • G to the T

        Ah yes – bending the Bible to the breaking point to try and make it jive with modern scientific belief.

        Here's another idea – the Bible isn't a text book. It was written by people who had a flawed view of the natural universe (not that anyone else had a good idea at the time) but were trying to understand it in their own way.

        June 9, 2014 at 2:24 pm |
        • jknbt

          HEY G....the bible is inspired, infallible, & inerrant...it is and always will be true. Unfortunately, flawed humans sometimes render flawed interpretations of it. There is no guarantee on the interpretations, sorry. All we can do is to learn how to do better and draw closer to the truth.

          So the RTB folks are not bending the bible to conform to their agenda. They are re-interpreting a lot of things based on truths and scientific knowledge that was not available to previous generations. Such efforts are welcomed by all lovers of the Truth.

          Also, pls see my comment below "JKNBT: the three religions"..... there is an answer there for you. Its time to start connecting the dots, friend. Prophecies are being fulfilled in our lifetime at a rate that hasn't been seen since the first advent.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:42 pm |
        • G to the T

          "HEY G....the bible is inspired, infallible, & inerrant..."

          That is your opinion, and not even one shared by many christians I might add. And unless we have very different definitions of "infallible" and "inerrant" I would have to disagree.

          June 9, 2014 at 3:05 pm |
  18. bostontola

    With the peace talks in the Vatican, it makes sense to me to revisit this question.

    In this context, all 3 religions do appear to be more like 1 religion with multiple sects and denominations. It's like speciation. The Jews had many subspecies of Judaism. Then there was a major mutation and a new species, Christianity came into being. It had new 'genes/memes' that fostered a more open membership that could grow much more quickly. Islam is like another species. Each species has many subspecies (Christianity has over 42,000). Ancient Judaism is the last common ancestor, but it looks like it got handed down many 'genes/memes' from Egypt and Mesopotamia (and new Judaism subspecies have evolved since then). Christianity seems to have gotten some horizontal 'gene/meme' transfer from many other places (e.g. ancient Greeks).

    Do the Mormons fit into this gene pool as well?

    June 9, 2014 at 1:00 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Mormons? As part of the Judeo/Christian/Islamic memetic process, certainly – the modifications a lost tribe in North America, yet another spin on defining divinity are all memetic mutations.

      June 9, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
      • bostontola

        We should create a "Jewish" version of Mormonism:

        Yahweh was given earth for a perfect life, but Yahweh didn't beget a son in Jesus. Planet Kolob, and all the rest are the same.

        There's gold in them thar hills!

        June 9, 2014 at 1:39 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          And it's tax free.

          You do need is really giant metaphorical gonads to pull off the scam. The problem with the likes of David Koresh is that they just don't think big enough and that makes them vulnerable.

          A bigger problem is that it takes generations to mine the gold. Neither Joseph Smith or L. Ron Hubbard lived long enough to see the really big money. That's why televangelism is the pragmatic solution. It's the fast track to tax-free big-money and they rely on the existing foundation and make very minor memetic mutations to create their niche.

          Joel Osteen for example takes the Evangelical meme, but instead of the usual judgmentalism is "nice" to everyone. Ka-ching!

          June 9, 2014 at 1:56 pm |
        • bostontola

          My sense of morality wouldn't allow me to perpetrate such a scam on my fellow humans anyway. There's been lots of other ways to profit, providing useful goods and services.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:02 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          Indeed so.

          The willingness to use the "abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus" (to borrow from Jefferson) takes a 'different' kind of personal morals than I am equipped with.

          June 9, 2014 at 2:11 pm |
  19. MidwestKen

    Is it not possible that they worship the same god, as do nearly all religions, i.e. the imaginary one.

    June 9, 2014 at 12:52 pm |
    • Alias

      But how differently do you have to interpret (aka imagine) your gods to be before they become different gods?
      Do they have different ideas about what the one god was trying to say? Do they think the 'other' religions are worshipping nothing insteads of just worshipping wrong?
      Kind of like is the new godzilla they same monster as the old black and white movies showed?

      June 9, 2014 at 12:59 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      your opinion matters not, you don't believe in God.

      June 9, 2014 at 1:08 pm |
      • igaftr

        your opinion does not matter, you believe in god.

        See how immature you sound scot?

        June 9, 2014 at 1:11 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      you worship junk science and therefore your opinion doesn't matter.

      June 9, 2014 at 1:24 pm |
      • In Santa We Trust

        wandering, What evidence do you have for a god? for your god? for your assertion that evolution is incorrect?

        June 9, 2014 at 1:42 pm |
      • MidwestKen

        @awanderingscot,
        1 I don't worship science
        2 I try very hard to avoid junk/psuedo science like YEC, homeopathy, psychics, etc.
        3 what does any of that have to do with my opinion.

        June 9, 2014 at 2:20 pm |
  20. Alias

    I don't know if CNN wanted to punish Scott, but this article sure did a good job of it.
    Any rational person can see that all 3 religions started from the same scrolls. There is clarly no divine intellect at work here. None of these religions has any proof or credibility in the modern world.

    June 9, 2014 at 12:36 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.