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 Pope Francis devoted much of his weekly speech on September 4 in Rome to the Syrian conflict.
September 5th, 2013
12:04 PM ET
Pope to G-20: Keep your armies out of SyriaBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - Pope Francis on Thursday wrote to the G-20 leaders, saying that military intervention in Syria would be "futile" and urging them to seek a diplomatic solution instead. "To the leaders present, to each and every one," Francis wrote in a public letter, "I make a heartfelt appeal for them to help find ways to overcome the conflicting positions and to lay aside the futile pursuit of a military solution." The pope's letter was addressed to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who is hosting the G-20 meeting, where the Syrian conflict is expected to take center stage. Francis has condemned the use of chemical weapons in Syria and called for a day of prayer and fasting on Sept. 7 to press for peace in Syria. He also chided the international community for letting "one-sided interests" prevent them from finding a solution. But while lamenting the "senseless massacre unfolding" in Syria, he has also rejected calls for a military strike against the forces of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops also urged President Obama and Congress not to use military force in Syria. "A central moral question is: Will more or less lives and livelihoods be destroyed by military intervention?" Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York and Bishop Richard Pates, who represent the bishops, wrote to Congress on Thursday. "Instead of employing armed force," the bishops continued,"in this situation our nation, working with the international community, should direct all of its energies urgently and tirelessly toward dialogue and negotiation."
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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this pope and the vatican are really showing themselves to be the hypocrites that they are.
thye know nothing about what Our Saviour Said and this proves it.
whereas you are certainly a True Scotsman yourself.
Totally agree with the pope on this one!!
Why sacrifice outside lives and money when you can negotiate them to oblivion for free!
Or you can launch a well aimed rocket and end this conflict in a day.
mom dont change my poo pants
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01-2pNCZiNk&feature=player_detailpage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0GRR_n_yQGA
vatican to make child abuse cover up a saint
there are chritians in syria and they are evil as thye support the evil person there, no wonder.
why doesn't he go and sort out the problems there, because he does not do as what' Our Saviour has Asked of us.
hypocrites all of them
this pope should shut up he has freedom now because people sadly had to make our freedom from bad people
why doesnt this stupid pope go and make the peace there
Punctuation – it can be your friend... look into it.
Apparently you fought to have freedom from punctuation.
He's not all that adept at capitalization either.
God isn't going to solve this problem. Dialogue isn't going to solve this problem, war is not going to solve the problem. In other words, It is never going to change because of the middle east culture. Therefore we need to stay out of the middle east's business. Let them kill each other off. We will not ever be able to stop the blood shed over there. As soon as we the western world figures it out the better off we will be. Not my house, Not my problem.
Amen brother!
"Not my house, Not my problem."
I'm sure the Jews in Germany during WW2 would be happy to hear you say that, right? Who cares if an evil dictator is comitting genocide, it's not happening in my back yard so why should I care, right?
The USA sure didn't care until we got hit with an attack at Pearl Harbor.
tiki jones wrote, "Not my house, Not my problem."
So tiki jones: Should one leave the neighborhood go to hell in a hand basket devaluing one's house..? While I am against any military conflict by outside forces, I am all for diplomatic conversations to be held by all parties concerned with Assad's governances and the parties that a laying siege to the Syrian people who many have left their nation and become other nations' homeless...
Oh yeah, preach it brother. Not. That is an ignorant statement–how could the U.S. ever stay out of there–our prints are all over the Middle East, and have been for over a century. Come on, don't be so short sighted.
But Pope, the Chief Rabbi of the Jews says "thosu shalt slaughter all Arabs and destroy their countries"
Get a grip Doofus Duckling...
John 14:13-14 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it
guess the Pope and millions of other people around the globe haven't been asking for peace in Syria.
what abject foolishness your religion is!!!
But you don't understand what the phrase "in My Name" means. It doesn't mean that we tack on a special phrase to the end of our prayers as if it were an encantation to get what we want. To "ask in the Name of God" is to ask according to His will – what He desires... Believe it or not, God wills tragedies as well as blessings. Scripture tells us that the ultimate goal for all things is to bring glory to God, so when we pray, "in His Name," we are praying for what most glorifies Him. In some cases, war is the will of God, in others it is peace.
if I could bring peace to the world I would. That's the difference between me and your god.
how about Matthew 21:22 And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”
don't all the people praying for peace have faith? doesn't the pope have faith?
But you can't quote mine like that. You need to take what he's saying in context, and the context is the object lesson that Jesus gave about a fig tree. When He spoke about prayer, He was reminding them of His example prayer in Matthew 6 where He taught them how to pray in the Name of God – according to His will... The object lesson of the fig tree was for them to have faith in that prayer that was according to the will of God.
Yeah, only Christians are allowed to quote mine the bible.
Nah, you can quote scripture, as long as it's taken in context. To take Scripture out of context, you can say stuff like this: "And Judas went out and hanged himself..." "Go and do likewise..."
Lawrence,
"To "ask in the Name of God" is to ask according to His will – what He desires."
You have to ask this "God" to get him to do his will... that he's gonna do anyway?
Nope. Because prayer isn't about aligning God's will to ours, it's about aligning our wills to God's. Even in the cases where people like Moses and Abraham seem to change God's mind, a deeper look into what really happens is through their prayer, the nature of God is revealed to them through the lesson of, say Abraham's discussion with God over how many righteous people may be found in the city of Sodom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO8x8eoU3L4
"In some cases, war is the will of God, in others it is peace."
What he is saying is that it's very wrong to murder and kill other humans, but if your God tells you to then it's okay. Funny how people around the world tend to worship the God that tells them to kill people they already don't like for one reason or another.
If God exists then he is a sadistic pig who kicks puppies for fun. I prefer not to believe in invisible cosmic sadists not just because they must be sick in the head, but because there is zero evidence of any God existing at all.
Understand though that God did not sanction ALL of the wars recorded in the Old Testament. And all of the wars that were specifically commissioned after the time of Joshua were DEFENSIVE in nature. Also, a number of battles that Israel fought on the way to and within Canaan were also defensive in nature (Exodus 17:8, Numbers 21:21-32, Deuteronomy 2:26-37, Joshua 10:4). Today, we have a New Covenant where the cross of Christ has put to an end the times where God used His people Israel as a tool to exact God’s judgment. Now, we live under the grace of Christ, and it is He who will exact judgment on the last day.
What ever you need to tell yourself Larry. I'm sure Hitler would have claimed most of his battles after 1942 were defensive in nature as well, who cares about the genocide in the preceding decade, right?
Which just highlights the uselessness of prayer, even if you're a believer–God's just going to do everything according to his plans regardless of your prayer, right?
LET's Religiosity Law #4 – If a bible verse furthers the cause, it is to be taken literally. If a bible verse is detrimental to the cause, it is either: taken out of context; is allegorical; refers to another verse somewhere else; is an ancient cultural anomaly; is a translation or copyist's error; means something other than what it actually says; Is a mystery of god or not discernible by humans; or is just plain magic.
And if you think interpretation is easy, just interpret this:
"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
Does providing a text that's hard to interpret really seem like an all-powerful being's way of getting his do-it-right-or-suffer-eternally directions out?
@Lawrence of Arabia,
No one is claiming that the Consti.tution is the "word of God" are they?
@ Larry of Araby
Halfway down this page you stated that interpreting Revelation "isn't that hard" and in your next post to me said that Revelation is "too profound for human words".
How are we supposed to believe anything you say when you contradict yourself like this?
Lawrence of Arabia
And if you think interpretation is easy, just interpret this:
"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
----
For a perfect God, his words are pretty flakey. Lets not stop there, lets look at his kingdom...1/3 of the angels who saw him, experienced him up front and center doubted his perfection. He is also a p! ss poor leader. If the bible is to be used as evidence of your god then I it makes a strong case that your god is human if anything.
Doobs
@ Larry of Araby
Halfway down this page you stated that interpreting Revelation "isn't that hard" and in your next post to me said that Revelation is "too profound for human words".
How are we supposed to believe anything you say when you contradict yourself like this?
..................
Christians flip flop back and forth, rather than face reality
Matthew 21:22 And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”
guess the Pope and millions of other people around the globe haven't been asking for peace in Syria.
what a crock your religion is!!!
Surely if the Pope prayed to god for peace, it would happen ... ?
Prayer is supposed to work isn't it? Especially for someone like the Pope!
what a crock!
Dear Pope,
People have been trying for a diplomatic solution in Syrai for as long as this conflict has been going on. It isn't working, but people keep trying. In the meantime, Assad used chemical weapons to kill hundreds of children. It wasn't an accident. That was his plan. He did it on purpose.
Besides the failing diplomatic solution we all prefer, what should we do about that, or should we do nothing? Do we let someone kill hundreds of children and pay no price? I understand the Catholic church is well practiced at looking away when children are hurt by those in power, but maybe this time we might do something, anything. Or do we just wait for him to do it again, and again, and again?
I would vote to do nothing, unless the president can promise that every man woman and child in America will get $100,000 worth of gold or something from Syria after we help.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Minuteman_III_MIRV_path.svg
Syrian problem solved...
the Pope says, "you keep your armies out of Syria and I'll keep my ambassadors out of little boys!"
That's just what the Pope calls the part of the body between his shoulder and his hands, his arm-ies....
someones a bit angry with the pope isnt he? spamming comments isnt going to help you prove your point, it just shows you as desperate for attention
A little defensive aren't we? The Pope is just one asshat in a long chain of asshats...
not spamming or angry actually. yesterday the pope recalled one of his ambassadors who had been hit by child abuse allegations. today the pope is telling the g20 to keep their armies out of Syria. I just stated 2 things the pope said. you really should read the posts before replying.
Francis' position is nil as his job is based on flawed theology and history. Take out the Syrian leadership and do it quickly.
"Take out the Syrian leadership and do it quickly."
And replace it with what? Radical Islamists?
Look at Revelations about the false witness and the Anit-Christ. It says the Anit-Christ will forge a peace treaty in the middle east. Now look up The prophecies of the Popes. Things that make you go Hummmm....
Read about how Abraham whored out his sister/wife twice to save his own ass. Things that make you go hmmmm...
I've already read that. I have many questions about things like that. The anointed of God were some bad ass people.
"Nineteenth-century agnostic Robert G. Ingersoll branded Revelation "the insanest of all books".[30] Thomas Jefferson omitted it along with most of the Biblical canon, from the Jefferson Bible, and wrote that at one time, he "considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams." [31]
Martin Luther once "found it an offensive piece of work" and John Calvin "had grave doubts about its value."[32]
And yet is accurately predicted satellite television. Rev. 11:9.
How on earth did you reach that conclusion?
Unless it says directly in the Bible "and then there will be satellite television" then it didn't predict it.
hey Jake from State Farm ... you sound hideous!
And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. Rev. 11:9
You got satellite television out of that?
That is the verse he was talking about? Insane I tell you.
It is indeed, Johnny.
I'm guessing that the response will be something along the lines of "It's clearly referring to satellite television. Nations, tongues and kindreds means that everyone in the world will be able to see them. Case closed."
I should have referenced verse 10 as well...provides greater context. If 2000 years ago someone said that the entire world would know and view and then celebrate something (with the ability to communicate it over just a a 3.5 day period–even then the known world was too large to communicate that fact in such a short amount of time), at that time you'd say they were crazy too. Just sayin.
Have you read Revelation? The author was in fact crazy.
@Jake From State Farm,
What a crock.
Doobs
I'm guessing that the response will be something along the lines of "It's clearly referring to satellite television. Nations, tongues and kindreds means that everyone in the world will be able to see them. Case closed."
September 5, 2013 at 2:02 pm | Report abuse |
Jake From State Farm
I should have referenced verse 10 as well...provides greater context. If 2000 years ago someone said that the entire world would know and view and then celebrate something (with the ability to communicate it over just a a 3.5 day period–even then the known world was too large to communicate that fact in such a short amount of time), at that time you'd say they were crazy too. Just sayin.
September 5, 2013 at 2:16 pm | Report abuse |
Called it! Although I missed the "You're taking it out of context!" intro.
Jake, if a dead body was lying in the courtyard of my apartment building, I could say the same thing. My neighbors are from all over the world and speak many different languages. That doesn't mean that the whole world sees it, just a few dozen who happen to have different backgrounds.
It's normal to have that kind of view to something that you don't understand. Yeah, the book of Revelation uses a lot of metaphore, but just pick up this book "Because the Time is Near" and it will take you verse by verse through the book of the Revelation. That is, if you're serious about it, and not just wanting to "quote mine" for your current position.
Shakespeare did it better. He used literary devices too, but you can understand what he's is trying to say.
Doobs, in both cases, they used literary devices that were common at the times they wrote. Just because we don't use them to the same degree that they did then, that doesn't mean that they should be discounted. It makes understanding a little more difficult for sure, but only impossible to the man who is unwilling to try.
Larry, what good is a literary device to someone who is illiterate, doesn't speak the same language, or isn't in an area of the world where the bible is available?
Your god supposedly wants everyone to understand it. Why be so cryptic then?
Lawrence,
"it will take you verse by verse through the book of the Revelation."
One can do that to any piece of writing - Moby Dick has been symbolized to bits, for example; and Nostradamus's predictions have been worked over big time. You can twist, spin and manipulate the words to mean just about anything you want.
Doobs, John wrote the book of the Revelation in Greek – the common language of the world at that time. He then sent it to the leaders of the major churches of the world so that it might be read and taught by literate, intelligent men.
These days, many people are not willing to dive into a very interesting book because they are afraid they won't understand it. But the resources are available to understand the book, and its not that hard, really.
Frayed Knot (I had a boat named that once actually...) True, you could try that. But the book of the Revelation is different. It lays out the image that John saw, and then it goes into an explanation of what it means, so there is very little room to try to allegorize it. For instance "The seven golden lampstands that you saw are the seven churches..." and so on.
If you actually think that anything in Revelation is going to happen here in the real world then I feel sorry for you.
Johnny, I'm sorry that you feel that way, but if it gets worse, I think they make a pill for that! 😉
Larry, I studied the bible for 50 years, in English, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Aramaic. Ten years of that was with a private tutor, about 8 hours a week with him, in addition to church attendance several times a week. I was a literal bible believer then, operating on the assumption that every word was true. I've read it cover to cover somewhere in the low double digits. Don't waste your time with your pre-primer level arguments. Show me what else you've got.
Revelation is easy to understand once you realize it was written by a raving lunatic.
The book of Revelation is an early sci-fi, horror, fantasy story written by a religious zealot... enjoy the thrills, if you like; but don't try to claim that it is true.
Doobs, I didn't ask for your credentials, but thank you. For what it's worth, I haven't been studying for 50 years, but I'm bald, so that's got to count for something. Just do me one thing, if you claim to be the kind of scholar that it appears you are, then one more book isn't going to hurt. Check out John MacArthur's book "Because the Time is Near." It's certainly not the only one out there, but he does a marvelous work on explaining the book. And I hardly feel that John was a lunatic, what I DO believe is the case is that what John saw, what Ezekiel saw, was too profound for human words, so you get the sense that its frustrating them to find the right words, which is why they lean so much on word pictures.
Lawrence,
You remind me of the aliens from a far-distant planet in the movie "Galaxy Quest", who received transmissions of a Star Trek-like TV show, thought it was real and built their whole society around worship and emulation of those amazing heroes from the show.
Larry, you didn't ask directly, but you began your explanation at the same level that I used with my preschool bible class. I simply explained that you can jump right into the "meat" and skip the "milk".
I've read a lot of MacArthur, including the one you recommend. It's more "Here's what this means and why you must believe it."
Doobs, OK, then back to your original question I presume? You asked why God must be so cryptic... Well, I can't presume to explain the "why," but to give possibly one insight:
Mark 4:10-12 As soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, so that while seeing, they may see and not perceive, and while hearing, they may hear and not understand, otherwise they might return and be forgiven.”
Here, Jesus is referencing Isaiah in a time where God desired to punish people for disobedience (Isaiah 6:9-13). Because the Revelation that was given to John is not specifically for an unbelieving world, as they have no faculty to understand it. Truely, much of the word of God is "milk" as you say, but to digest the "meat" of the Word, the Spirit is necessary.
Larry, you said,
These days, many people are not willing to dive into a very interesting book because they are afraid they won't understand it. But the resources are available to understand the book, and its not that hard, really.
and in your next post to me, you said,
what I DO believe is the case is that what John saw, what Ezekiel saw, was too profound for human words, so you get the sense that its frustrating them to find the right words, which is why they lean so much on word pictures.
Which is it, Larry? Is it easy to understand or too profound for human words?
Doobs, we wouldn't be talking about the bible if there wasn't some sort of contradiction involved.
Doobs, OK, then back to your original question I presume? You asked why God must be so cryptic... Well, I can't presume to explain the "why," but to give possibly one insight:
Mark 4:10-12 As soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, so that while seeing, they may see and not perceive, and while hearing, they may hear and not understand, otherwise they might return and be forgiven.”
Here, Jesus is referencing Isaiah in a time where God desired to punish people for disobedience (Isaiah 6:9-13).
There is nothing in that entire chapter to indicate Jesus was referencing Isaiah or any other "prophet".
Because the Revelation that was given to John is not specifically for an unbelieving world, as they have no faculty to understand it. Truely, much of the word of God is "milk" as you say, but to digest the "meat" of the Word, the Spirit is necessary.
This is a common technique that has been very successfully employed by everyone from Hans Christian Andersen (as satire) to John Smith (as a money making scheme). It plays on the human need to feel special, nothing more. "You won't be able to understand the bible, see the golden plates, etc. unless the "holy spirit", "faith", etc. allows you."
@ Johnny
Very true. At least Larry finally admitted that his deity doesn't explain itself very well.
I said it was difficult, not impossible. How is that a contradiction? And yeah, some images presented in the book of the Revelation as well as in Ezekiel present challenges given the nature of the revelations they saw. That doesn't mean that their meaning cannot be discerned. If you believe that they are without meaning and are so much empty words, Doobs, then that could be why you turned apostate.
Yeah, but it's still happening despite how anyone says. Check it out.
,"in this situation our nation, working with the international community, should direct all of its energies urgently and tirelessly toward dialogue and negotiation."
–Ok! So, who can be the "chief negotiator" between Assad and G20???
The Pope wishes peace... to bad the middle-east is deaf to what the Catholic meat-puppet wants