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September 9th, 2013
03:29 PM ET
Fox News host: Atheists 'don't have to live here'By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - Fox News pundit Dana Perino said she's "tired" of atheists attempting to remove the phrase "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance, adding, "if these people really don't like it, they don't have to live here." The co-host of Fox's "The Five" was referring to a suit brought by the American Humanist Association in Massachusetts, where the state's Supreme Judicial Court heard a challenge to the pledge on Wednesday. The group's executive director, Roy Speckhardt, called the suit "the first challenge of its kind," but Perino begged to differ. Perino, who was White House press secretary for George W. Bush from 2007-2009, said she recalled working at the Justice Department in 2001 "and a lawsuit like this came through." The former Bush spokeswoman added that "before the day had finished the United States Senate and the House of Representatives had both passed resolutions saying that they were for keeping ‘under God’ in the pledge." "If these people don't like it, they don't have to live here," Perino added. David Silverman, president of the American Atheists, called Perino's comments "bigotry." "I, for one, am tired of those Christians, like Ms. Perino, who think that equality is somehow un-American," Silverman said. "If Ms. Perino doesn't like being only equal, it is she who will have to leave America to some other country that doesn't value religious liberty." READ MORE: Famous Atheists and Their Beliefs In 2002, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals sided with atheist Michael Newdow who argued that the words "under God" in the pledge amounted to an unconstitutional government endorsement of religion. The Supreme Court overturned that ruling. Congress added the words "under God" in 1954 amid the red scare over the Soviet Union. In November 2002, after the Newdow ruling, Congress passed a law reaffirming "under God" in the pledge. Greg Gutfeld, another co-host on "The Five," continued the discussion after Perino, saying the Pledge of Allegiance "is not a prayer, it's a patriotic exercise. In a sense, it's basically saying: Thanks for giving us the freedom to be an atheist." The Massachusetts case, which was brought by an unidentified family of a student at a school in suburban Boston, will be argued on the premise that the pledge violates the Equal Rights Amendment of the Massachusetts Constitution. READ MORE: Behold, the Six Types of Atheists It is the first such case to be tried on the state level: All previous attempts have been argued in federal court on the grounds that "under God" was an unconstitutional violation of the separation of church and state. CNN's Kevin Conlon contributed to this report. soundoff (7,255 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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The point of the 'go live someplace else' comment is the courts have decided. Whether you believe in God or not, those that disagree with the way our country is run have the option to work to change it or leave. Though at some point, lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit against the government is wasting a whole lot of our tax dollars. Rather than fretting over 'Under God' in the pledge, why dont' they put their efforts into getting the budget balanced and helping the poor?
What sort of "work to change" would you suggest? The legal system is currently the only recourse for people seeking to change the government, as wealth has taken over our politics and an average citizen has very little change of being elected to any seat of power.
"I, for one, am tired of those Christians, like Ms. Perino, who think that equality is somehow un-American"
________
Here we go again with the 'equality spiel'. Move over Gays and make room for the Atheist.
What is the problem with equality? What is equality like a disease to you people?
I know, right?
It says quite clearly "all hetero, white, Christian, land owning men are created equal".
What's wrong, Harry? Does that darned Constitution and its Amendments have you skirt up in a pinch?
"If these people really don't like it, they don't have to live here."
I'll bet the founders of our country were told something similar.
No the Indians were told that... Either way people are destroying the USA and we are becoming one backwards country with a lot of people who have no love for themselves much less for others. Religion is all about they way you live your life and about how to love one another which most none believers of any faith have trouble with this.
test
These atheists don't appear to complain about 'In God We Trust' which is on our currency!!!! Let them turn all of their money over to government or charity and go find another way to enjoy their freedoms of living here...HYPOCRITS!!
That is one intelligent comment. Kudos to you.
You're being sarcastic, right?
Me? Sarcastic? NEVER! 😉
Uh yeah we do complain about the term "god" on our currency as well. There is no need for it to be on our currency.
And when future archeologists unearth our coinage they will think our god looks like Lincoln, or Jefferson or whoever happens to be on that coin.
Wow, you're really stupid.
I complain about the lie on our money and in our government buildings all of the time. It is a lie and needs to be removed.
careful, they are working on it with B.O. leading the way to transform the good country we have into a socialist mess. The whole thing stinks. These are the least tolerant people there is while playing victim all the time complaining about how they are violated/discriminated in every. It makes me sick.
Oh shut up teabilly. You obviously want a dictatorship country with your party in control don't you?
'These atheists don't appear to complain about 'In God We Trust' which is on our currency!!!! Let them turn all of their money over to government or charity and go find another way to enjoy their freedoms of living here...HYPOCRITS!!'
Well that has been challenged a few times as well but the difference here is that you dont have to actually say 'in god we trust' when you hand over a dollar bill.
Moreover, it should be the christians that are up in arms about that phrase being on money. After reading about jesus and moneylenders in the temple, do you really think god would be happy with being invoked on currency?
My personal checques bear the legend, "In FSM We Trust." No one has turned them down. For most of my spending, I use a credit card anyway – rarely ever use cash (and never carry a balance past the end of the month, either – to head off the most llkely, snarky non sequitur follow-up presumption before you waste your time typing it).
One wonders why the god-botherers are so enthusiastic about having their stamp on currency in the first place, when their gospel warns so clearly about the love of money and false idolatry and etc. Doesn't even make sense.
But back to the seldom-spoken-clearly crux of the philosophical biscuit: Our laws have to be logically internally consistent. That should be a given. The most fundamental concept underlying US civil law is inarguably that all citizens are equal before the law. So how do you square a government endorsement of religion with that? It's clear that for the government to actually treat all citizens equally, it must simply stay neutral – completely, punctiliously neutral – in matters related to faith. Simple, huh? And getting rid of overt references to religion is completely consistent with that philosophy.
So someone is asking that the pledge be returned to it original glory and all these theists are now up in arms. It is a farce if your pledge can just be manipulated by the church and have words added to it on a whim.
Also to take the pledge is like a contract, if you are an atheist, stating that part of the pledge is lie, which would be unfair for people to do. Taking it out does not force anyone to lie.
Thank you – a clear and concise defense. Which is probably why none of the opposition have bothered to respond...
Freedom OF religion, not FROM it. If your chosen religion is Atheism, that is fine by me. This nation was founded as a Christian nation, like it or not. It won't be imposed upon you in any way, but don't try and rip the heritage our nation was founded on away from it. To those who do believe in God it is as offensive as it would be to try and tell an Atheist he/she must attend a church. That will never happen, and vestiges of our common heritage that pertain to religion should be left alone. They've so been stripped of any imposition that they only offend those looking to be offended.
No it wasn't ya failure. Study your history. People that came to this country were not Christian. They were groups of people with different beliefs that tried to flee the persecution of Europe.
You do realize that "under God" wasn't in the original pledge? What part of "Congress added the words 'under God' in 1954 amid the red scare over the Soviet Union." didn't you understand?
Idiot...
Read my text before you go name-calling. Did I say that the text "under God" was there in the first place? It didn't need to be for this to be founded as a Christian nation. I'm sure the pledge itself didn't even exist in 1776, did it?
Separation of Church and State
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States
It was not founded as a "christian Nation" you goober. You are just regurgitating the same uneducated blather you hear from you money-grubbing pastor in the strip-mall you call a church.
"This nation was founded as a Christian nation, like it or not".
Hahahahaahahaah! How did you graduate from H.S.?! You've never heard of "separation of church and state"? Key word- SEPERATION!
it also means freedom from religion. This country was not founded as a christian country you baffoon! Read a history book. There is no god so a country cannot be "under god" The govt endorsing any religion should and will be barred soon.
No it doesn't. If it meant freedom FROM religion it probably would have said it. What it said was that the government wouldn't establish a religion or prohibit the free exercise of a religion. What is so hard to understand about that? Note it doesn't say "and any vestiges of religion will be removed so you never see them in the same context of government." If it said that, they wouldn't have marked our coins, had (and still have) open prayer at public meetings, etc. Why is it so hard to see something this plain?
That great Mike... so long as they are following your religion right? What if the Christians aren't a majority in the future? Would you be OK with "under allah" being added?
Isn't it MUCH easier to make government religiously NEUTRAL?
How is the removal of two words offensive to anyone? Lack of words does not represent an opinion or position. It is only the presence of words that does.
Congress added the words "under God" in 1954 amid the red scare over the Soviet Union.
" This nation was founded as a Christian nation, like it or not. "
Nope, you are flat out wrong on that one, Mikey. Also, you are leaving out the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment which does provide for freedom from religion to a degree to keep people from stepping on each others' toes. Maybe you haven't taken your government class yet. Are you skipping school today?
I'm pretty sure I have a firm grasp on the establishment clause. Aptly named, too....as in the government won't ESTABLISH A RELIGION. So how does that help your argument? Is having an acknowledgement of a higher power tantamount to establishing a religion???? If not, you should hit the books again.
And you should go back and read the comments to understand what was meant by "establishment" in that context. It bascially means the same as "endorse" or to "show favor for". Putting "god" in our pledge and currency goes directly against that. That's why the original motto on coins was "Mind Your Business" and pledge didn't include "under god".
You do know that multiple founding fathers were atheist?
And they didn't object to Christian prayer to open congressional meetings, or to open discussion of God in the public forum. What does that tell you about what the 1st Amendment actually means? Try reading it.
You are just repeating the lines that some biased broadcaster or preacher told you. A history prof would never tell you this was a 'Christian nation' and there is plenty of proof that many of the founding fathers wanted no part of that.
First, the Christian principles people talk about are also the principles of all the major religions (don't cheat or steal, commit murder, etc.) and have been around for thousands are years before Jesus.
Second, there are lots of writings from the founding fathers speficially saying it was not a Christian country, for example the letter from George Washington to the Jews saying they were going to equal citizens to Jefferson's calling Christianity a myth.
We hear your statement a lot and it's garbage, coming from people who simply want to exert their opinions, lifestyles and understanding of the world onto everyone else by force.
Well put!
Most of the founding fathers were Deists. Education would help you sir.
If being a Presbyterian or Catholic makes you a Diest.
a few points... Atheism is NOT a religion, It's very meaning is an absence of religion. America was definitely NOT founded as a Christian nation, in fact the very first amendment confirms this (Separation of church from state), in fact this very point is what makes it valid to take out "under god" from the pledge of allegiance. In fact, President Adams once said "The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Also, last point, "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance was never part of the original pledge in the first place, it was added in the 1950's.
That phrase was added in the 50's you idiot AND this country was NOT founded as a Christian nation. That is why there is a separation of church and state to oppose that very idea. Many of the founders of this great country were opposed to all religions
You couldn't be any more WRONG. It was as secular nation built on the Ideals of the Age of enlightenment. They might have been churchgoers but they wanted the Gov't to not beholden to any damn church.
False, this nation was not founded as a christian nation. i suggest you use your google machine to educate yourself.
'Freedom OF religion, not FROM it.'
Actually its both.
' If your chosen religion is Atheism, that is fine by me'
Atheism isnt a religion
'This nation was founded as a Christian nation, like it or not. It won't be imposed upon you in any way'
Its imposed on us every single day. Always has been.
' To those who do believe in God it is as offensive as it would be to try and tell an Atheist he/she must attend a church.'
But no atheist is saying you need to claim that god does not exist.
Religion.........the ultimate ponzi scheme
I disagree but it is the ultimate arrogance. What kind of person can claim that they know the ultimate truth about everything and other people are wrong.
How arrogant is it to claim that your holy book, which was compiled by a Roman emperor hundreds of years after Jesus' death, added to, edited, interpreted and full of contradictions is the ultimate word of god and every word is true. Aside from just being dumb you would have to know god in a way that people of other religions don't and you put yourself above other people.
Just arrogant lies, all of it.
to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
That's right – one symbol per pledge is plenty, and we pledge allegiance to a flag, not a god.
Well Im glad you pledge your allegiance to a piece of cloth, sheep.
Seems to me that the point of the pledge of allegiance is to pledge allegiance – to the flag! It's in the first line!
"I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
Atheists are here and they're here to stay! And we will work to make this a FREE Nation for ALL people! Like it, or not! PERIOD!
Does Dana Perino believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny too?
Fine with me if she does. Fine with me if she doesn't. Your ideas are religion too, just a different brand.
No, she was the press secretary for Bush/Cheney. The truth has always been unimportant to her.
Good one!
I guess Aynd Rand shouldn't have been welcome in the USA.
LOL.....
GOD Gathering of Dumb
Because race, money, politics and crime are not enough to seperate America, lets throw God in the mix! I really don't understand how "one nation under God" is offensive to anyone. If you are an Athiest and don't believe in a God then those words are basically meaningless to you, right? I think this is partly tied to the whole gay movement. The gays are attacking religion because religious people are attacking them. Why can't we all just get along?
So if every morning, your children were indoctrinated to praise Vishnu, you wouldn't have a problem with it since you don't believe in Vishnu, right?
Incorrect, if the PUBLIC school wants my kids to pray to ANY god then I object. I will take care of their religious instruction, not the State, not a church, temple, synagogue or other extablishment.
Plenty of people from other religions don't worship the deity "God" either, you know?
You don't you keep your Dog that doesn't exist in your private life and leave sane people alone?
Yeah, this is some big gay conspiracy. They're out to get you poor Christians. LOL
As a Christian, I'm offended that you are offended. I guess you are just used to being in the majority. Replace God with Allah and see how much you support the pledge. Since the pledge was altered in 1954 it doesn't conform to our founders standards. Just take the "Under God" part out. You can always reaffirm your commitment to God in church, as I do every Sunday.
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
Maker of heaven and earth;
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son our Lord;
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;
the third day he rose from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and sitteth at the right hand of the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come again to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
An allegedly omnipotent being that created the first human out of dirt then had to use a human to recreate itself in order to sacrifice itself to itself (actually just borrowed some flesh and poofed itself back to where it came from, yeah some sacrifice) for creating an unpardonable situation in its own view that in its omniscience should have known would have happened.
Yeah, sign me up!
You took a lot of time to reply to something I didn't argue. I didn't ask you to believe. Rather, I supported your right not to have to pledge loyalty to God. Or did you not pick that up?
As an Atheist I would like to say how pleased to hear that there are Christians who support this.
I was hoping as I read through the comments and spotted yours that some idiot wouldn't criticise your pledge of belief.
I fully support the right to believe in god. I only ask that religion not be foisted upon those of us who don't believe.
I think we are of a mind on this 🙂
If those words suggest that the government might be favoring people who do believe over those who don't, then it's a problem. If (as is getting worked out over and over in lower courts, usually to the displeasure of the god-botherers) government is using my tax dollars to favor one religion over others, or religion in general over neutrality, then it's a problem. What's so flipping difficult to understand about that?
If he realized how many of us atheists there are, he might change his tune.
AMERICAN TALIBAN RULE OVE AT FOXISTAN
Change the "under God" to what ever religion like. It can be "under Buddha"..."under Allah"...or "under NO Gods" (for atheist)..or "under the law of nature"...whatever is your belief. Do not impose your religion to others. After 1954, all countries use their own religion to suppress their people. Now you get the extremist muslim suppressing their own people like the Talibans. Our forefathers wanted separation of church and state because they were persecuted by their religious fanatics government. The MUST be a separation of church and state.
"Why should they be catered to? Why are they so special?"
"I'm telling you that I find it offensive that a few people – these children are pawns in their parents' political statements and beliefs to try and force it on everybody else and inflict their belief system...it's incredibly selfish, it's small minded, and I don't think the court should cater to them"
Way to ironically describe religion in a nutshell, you moron.
I thought the same. It was almost like they were being sarcastic in their description.
ha ha ha yeah
I was thinking the same though that bit 😀
Like any of you know what people like George Washington etc thought or didn't think about God. Of course, you read it somewhere, so it must be true. It's real simple, if you want to sat it, say it, if you don't then do not. No one is forced to go to Church on Sunday. No one is forced to pray. No one is forced to say the pledge. Quit trying to force you idelaso n everybody.
It is you who is trying to force your beliefs on others. Pledging our allegiance to our nation should have NOTHING to do with religion. Wake up.
I am, wide awake. That's why we have to stand and fight. Otherwise groups like yours will force your beliefs on us. Next you will want to outlaw churches as preaching something not within your established beliefs, so therefore no one should be allowed to attend. Who knows, after that, what's next all Christians report to the 're-education' center. Again, so you might finally understand, NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO SAY THOSE WORDS. Quit trying to force us not to.
you forced the change in there, not atheists.
no one is going to force churches to close, stop playing the victim in this. god does not belong in the pledge and people shouldnt be forced to decide what they should say the pledge to their flag or not.
To say their is no God is say I am man and there is no one greater then I.
Your ego is your God and your religion is self worship.
Religion is the belief in something your belief is you are your own God.
Those that have excepted a power greater then them selfs have made them selfs last and least opening the door for something greater to guide them threw this life. In return they are able to use this power and with its help they become the first greater then them selfs.
You are describing autotheism, not atheism.
A = lack of
Theism = belief in gods
A + Theism = lack of belief in gods.
That's it, that's all! It is a negative statement that describes only what one does NOT believe.
"To say their is no God is say I am man and there is no one greater then I."
That's silly. There are a lot more possibilities that you could be leaving out. Remember, the Abrahamic God (and I'm presuming that's who you are referring to) is one very specific entity in your argument.
Atheism is a rejection of man's claims about gods. It is not arrogant; it is rooted in reflective and logical thought.
Rejecting man's claims about gods does not imply 'there is no one greate than I' – that's a baseless leap you are making.
Atheism isn't a belief in 'nothing'; I believe many things...supported by reason and evidence.
Those that have accepted a 'power greater than themselves' without a single shred of evidence are desparately seeking to fill some void or insecurity in their lives.
If you believe that Atheism is all about arrogant narcissism then you simply do not understand Atheism.
well said 🙂
'To say their is no God is say I am man and there is no one greater then I.
Your ego is your God and your religion is self worship.
Religion is the belief in something your belief is you are your own God.'
what a bizarre claim. You are bordering on the arena of bearing false witness with that one.