home
RSS
September 9th, 2013
03:29 PM ET

Fox News host: Atheists 'don't have to live here'

By Daniel BurkeCNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
[twitter-follow screen_name='BurkeCNN']

(CNN) - Fox News pundit Dana Perino said she's "tired" of atheists attempting to remove the phrase "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance, adding, "if these people really don't like it, they don't have to live here."

The co-host of Fox's "The Five" was referring to a suit brought by the American Humanist Association in Massachusetts, where the state's Supreme Judicial Court heard a challenge to the pledge on Wednesday.

The group's executive director, Roy Speckhardt, called the suit "the first challenge of its kind," but Perino begged to differ.

Perino, who was White House press secretary for George W. Bush from 2007-2009, said she recalled working at the Justice Department in 2001 "and a lawsuit like this came through."

The former Bush spokeswoman added that "before the day had finished the United States Senate and the House of Representatives had both passed resolutions saying that they were for keeping ‘under God’ in the pledge."

"If these people don't like it, they don't have to live here," Perino added.

David Silverman, president of the American Atheists, called Perino's comments "bigotry."

"I, for one, am tired of those Christians, like Ms. Perino, who think that equality is somehow un-American," Silverman said. "If Ms. Perino doesn't like being only equal, it is she who will have to leave America to some other country that doesn't value religious liberty."

READ MORE: Famous Atheists and Their Beliefs 

In 2002, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals sided with atheist Michael Newdow who argued that the words "under God" in the pledge amounted to an unconstitutional government endorsement of religion. The Supreme Court overturned that ruling.

Congress added the words "under God" in 1954 amid the red scare over the Soviet Union. In November 2002, after the Newdow ruling, Congress passed a law reaffirming "under God" in the pledge.

Greg Gutfeld, another co-host on "The Five," continued the discussion after Perino, saying the Pledge of Allegiance "is not a prayer, it's a patriotic exercise. In a sense, it's basically saying: Thanks for giving us the freedom to be an atheist."

The Massachusetts case, which was brought by an unidentified family of a student at a school in suburban Boston, will be argued on the premise that the pledge violates the Equal Rights Amendment of the Massachusetts Constitution.

READ MORE: Behold, the Six Types of Atheists

It is the first such case to be tried on the state level: All previous attempts have been argued in federal court on the grounds that "under God" was an unconstitutional violation of the separation of church and state.

CNN's Kevin Conlon contributed to this report.

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Atheism • Belief • Church and state • Courts • Culture wars • News media • Schools • TV

soundoff (7,255 Responses)
  1. Aiquoy

    Oppression is control, to force an individual or a group to conform to another's desire against their will. To force someone to say something they don't want to is oppression, but to prevent them from saying it is oppressive as well.
    Why this whole debacle? Allow it, regardless of religious connotations it's an integral part of this country's history. Those who want to take pride in the country they love can stand up and say it. Those who don't can sit down. Why make a mountain out of a molehill?

    September 10, 2013 at 6:34 pm |
    • SDFrankie

      Yeah. And why can't black people go to their own schools? And what's with gays wanting to act as if they have the same rights as everyone else. Jeez. Whiners.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:39 pm |
      • Luthias

        So you saying the choice is to have national pride and religion or no religion and no national pride. The mole comes from having a difference in religion and still having national pride. God was not in the Pledge or on our money til the 1954, 152 years after T. Jefferson penned his famous letter declaring "a separation of church and state".

        September 10, 2013 at 6:57 pm |
    • EnjaySea

      So you think an 8 year old child is going to "just sit down and not say it"?

      The problem is that this is done in schools. Of course an adult can easily make that choice, and I certainly do. I haven't recited that vile pledge for decades.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:44 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'Those who want to take pride in the country they love can stand up and say it'

      there you go, you yourself just labelled those that say it as those that have pride in the country, and those that dont do not have pride.
      If it is not in the pledge then NO ONE is effected. EVERYONE can say the pledge without having to make a choice as to which parts they dont say.
      Isnt it better to be all inclusive in a country pledge?

      September 11, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
  2. Vincent Fournier

    The Native Americans had religion pushed down their throats too, God as we know it has been apart of many of massacre in the world.

    September 10, 2013 at 6:30 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Hawaii is a prime example.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • raycamp

      You're right, the government had no play in using religion as an excuse to invade and push the native Americans off their land. It was solely the protestant and Catholic missionaries. Read a little history and sociology before you make a claim like that. And if you want to play that card, you have to acknowledge the mountain of work it has done in favor of society.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:53 pm |
  3. tlushertheblowholeorg

    So, the atheists should leave the country.....just another display of "Bush" like mentality, that the God people think they own this country and they alone build it.

    September 10, 2013 at 6:14 pm |
    • barrtoms

      its been around longer than bush. bush is simply the most well known to profit from it.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:16 pm |
      • joe nardonesson

        Am I missing something? Who is forcing atheists to include god in the pledge? Who is forcing atheists to do anything?

        This is just a desperate cry for relevance.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:47 pm |
        • Doobs

          Plenty of Christians are trying to force everyone to pledge to their deity (and don't play that game of "God with a capital g" is a generic term, just have the balls to admit you mean the Christian god). Christians are trying to incorporate their mythology into science classes in public schools and into civil law.

          September 10, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
    • M

      They did build it – with all of their slaves, indentured servants, underpaid workers, and the like. Christians are great.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
  4. JoJo

    If religious people don't like atheists they can go live in some Islamic fascist state where atheists are not allowed. What's so great about "faith" anyway? The 9/11 terrorists were men of great faith. Some of these unnecessary war & torture advocating Americans who call themselves "Christians" have nothing to do with Jesus or anything he taught, anyway.

    September 10, 2013 at 6:10 pm |
    • barrtoms

      they wanna be they them but NOTHING LIKE THEM!!! UR ANTI AMERICAN FOR SUGGESTING SUCH A THING!!!

      September 10, 2013 at 6:20 pm |
    • Ace

      what are you talking about, you live in a country that was founded by men who believed in God, if YOU don't like it go some where else. Get an education!

      September 10, 2013 at 6:46 pm |
  5. M

    If they don't like it, why don't they leave? Funny, that's what the racists say about black folks – "go back to Africa." Come to think of it, that's part of Fox's message as well.

    September 10, 2013 at 6:10 pm |
    • PennyK

      They tell women to get back into the kitchen as well. That's what they mean by "traditional" values.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
    • Godless Raven

      Yeah, when the creation-o-tards say "traditional values" they forget to mention those values were current about 50,000 years before they believe the earth was created.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:34 pm |
  6. myklds

    I see no logic of people being so much bothered by the things they don't believe in, that they need to spend much energy and money by taking it to court.

    I just hope that non-militant atheists would not support of some actions that don't resonate with their unbelief. And to some few of their kind to realize that being so militant will do them more harm than good.

    They must realize that forcing the issue will just prove that they don't belong in America.

    September 10, 2013 at 6:08 pm |
    • PennyK

      So, Conservative Christians shouldn't get bothered by something that they don't believe in, like abortion, or evolution then?

      September 10, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
      • renato

        abortion wrongess doesnt stem from a religious argument. Its pretty much logic and common sense

        September 10, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
        • PennyK

          Do tell? What is your logical argument against abortion?

          September 10, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
        • Islesfan

          Not a religious argument? "Thou shalt not kill" ring a bell?

          September 10, 2013 at 6:41 pm |
      • myklds

        Pro or anti, believe in abortion and we never go to court to ban books of evolution. Your logic fails, MISERABLY!

        September 10, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
      • In Santa we trust

        They are totally different issues. There is plenty of evidence to support evolution and none to support creationism so not believing in evolution is wilful ignorance.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:30 pm |
        • Islesfan

          Evolution is a theory! Not fact! Same willful ignorance applies!

          September 10, 2013 at 6:42 pm |
        • fintastic

          Electronics is a "theory"......... stop typing on that computer... it's only a "theory"

          September 11, 2013 at 11:29 am |
        • Johnny

          I thought people learned the difference between a "theory" and a "scientific theory" by about third grade?

          September 11, 2013 at 11:49 am |
    • Ed Kidwell

      Where ARE these "militant" atheists? They don't exist. Plenty of those bible waving militias around though. They worship fascism and Hitler and call themselves patriots.
      .

      September 10, 2013 at 6:12 pm |
      • PennyK

        A "militant" atheist is just one who isn't afraid to say that they don't believe in any god publicly. That's about as militant as your standard sports fan.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:16 pm |
        • myklds

          Standing in public being vocal of not believing the existence of God is unarguably a resonance of your unbelief. Being bothered by it and bringing it court is quite absurd.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:31 pm |
        • Ed Kidwell

          Right Penny K ,although being a sports fan is practicing a religion in itself.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • ME II

      "They must realize that forcing the issue will just prove that they don't belong in America."

      What? Why?

      September 10, 2013 at 6:12 pm |
      • PennyK

        The way MLK forced his issue, I suppose?

        September 10, 2013 at 6:24 pm |
      • TruthNAmerica

        I agree with returning to a better separation of church and state as was the case prior to the 1950s, I'm a christian but the Theocrats are frightening in their fervor. However, you can't give false information and expect to be taken seriously. Atheist governments have killed many (millions) as well, think Cambodia, China and the USSR when first implementing communism.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:35 pm |
      • myklds

        The phrase "under God" was whole-heartedly accepted by general public, forcing it to be removed will surely make you not to fit in further.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:35 pm |
        • sam

          Thanks for the pretzel logic.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
    • QS

      So by exercising our freedom of speech to criticize a discriminatory insti.tution we are showing that we do not belong here?

      I probably shouldn't be surprised that so many people try to use false logic to justify an unjustifiable position that religion should always be shown respect and should always be given the benefit of the doubt.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:13 pm |
    • ME II

      You wouldn't be bothered by your children being forced to listen to religious indoctrination not of your choosing.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:24 pm |
    • SDFrankie

      You don't belong in America. You don't know the first thing about it.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
  7. Ed Kidwell

    John Calvin II- "A shooting war" started by atheists. LOL If you read your history you would read about how the CHRISTIANS rode rough shod throughout the middle east slaughtering muslims down to the babies. Onward christian soldiers.....LOL No atheist would consider doing something that heinous. We are too intelligent,educated and unshakeable in our NON-beliefs to do that kind of garbage.

    September 10, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • Rett

      Ever hear of Stalin, Mao....

      September 10, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
      • PennyK

        Hitler, who was Christian, ...

        September 10, 2013 at 6:13 pm |
        • AE

          “Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.”

          Hitler

          September 10, 2013 at 6:24 pm |
        • AE

          “So it’s not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death. A slow death has something comforting about it. The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that’s left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic.”

          Hitler

          September 10, 2013 at 6:24 pm |
        • AE

          “Our epoch will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity. It will last another hundred years, two hundred years perhaps. My regret will have been that I couldn’t, like whoever the prophet was, behold the promised land from afar. We are entering into a conception of the world that will be a sunny era, an era of tolerance.”

          Hitler

          September 10, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
        • AE

          “In the long run, National Socialism and religion will no longer be able to exist together.”

          Hitler

          September 10, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
        • Jake

          "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

          -Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

          September 10, 2013 at 6:29 pm |
        • AE

          Nazism was his religion. At times he said he was a Christian, but clearly he changed his mind about saying such a thing.

          “The fact that the Ja.panese have retained their political philosophy, which is one of the essential reasons for their successes, is due to their having been saved in time from the views of Christianity.”

          Hitler

          September 10, 2013 at 6:33 pm |
        • Jake

          Hitler was obviously insane so it's hard to get a consistent coherent idea of what he actually believed. But he at least CLAIMED to be a Christian and driven to do the Lord's work.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:35 pm |
        • PennyK

          "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter."

          "Just as the Jew could once incite the mob of Jerusalem against Christ, so today he must succeed in inciting folk who have been duped into madness to attack those who, God's truth! seek to deal with this people in utter honesty and sincerity."

          "We have faith that one day Heaven will bring the Germans back into a Reich over which there shall be no Soviet star, no Jewish star of David, but above that Reich there shall be the symbol of German labor – the Swa.stika. And that will mean that the first of May has truly come."

          Hitler

          September 10, 2013 at 6:36 pm |
        • PennyK

          "It matters not whether these weapons of ours are humane: if they gain us our freedom, they are justified before our conscience and before our God."

          "We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls.... We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people."

          Hitler

          September 10, 2013 at 6:37 pm |
        • AE

          I believe Hitler lied about being a Christian to gain political support. Once he was in charge, he made it clear he opposed Christianity.

          He ordered Christians who refused to bow down to the SS to be executed.

          He was evil. He lied. He desired to see the end of Christianity, because Christians refused to pledge allegiance to his flag.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:39 pm |
        • PennyK

          "National Socialism has always affirmed that it is determined to take the Christian Churches under the protection of the State.... The decisive factor which can justify the existence alike of Church and State is the maintenance of men's spiritual and bodily health, for it that health were destroyed it would mean the end of the State and also the end of the Church.... It is my sincere hope that thereby for Germany, too, through free agreement there has been produced a final clarification of spheres in the functions of the State and of one Church."

          Hitler

          No separation of Church and State for him either.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:40 pm |
        • PennyK

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNN-M4wMbT4&feature=player_embedded

          September 10, 2013 at 6:41 pm |
        • PennyK

          "The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the a.ssertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie."

          Hitler

          September 10, 2013 at 6:42 pm |
        • AE

          A Hitler Youth marching song (Grunberger, A Social History):

          "We follow not Christ, but Horst Wessel, Away with incense and Holy Water, The Church can go hang for all we care, The Swastika brings salvation on Earth."

          September 10, 2013 at 6:43 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          AE, No surprise that you choose to believe that Hitler lied about that and not the other way around. Just because he was twisted doesn't mean he wasn't a christian (and I don't mean that he was twisted because of his religious beliefs – hating jews is not uncommon, for example Mel Gibson).

          September 10, 2013 at 6:45 pm |
        • AE

          Look at the dates of those quotes!

          Some are from when he is campaigning (lying) to gain political control.

          Once in control, what does he say and do?

          September 10, 2013 at 6:45 pm |
        • AE

          @ In Santa we trust

          But he hated Christians. All Mel Gibson did was speak bad of Jews.

          Hitler spoke bad about and murdered Jews. And Christians.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:48 pm |
        • PennyK

          "We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."

          Hitler

          You did learn in high school how Hitler and Stalin were enemies, and that Stalin was our ally, didn't you?

          September 10, 2013 at 6:49 pm |
        • Jake

          AE, I believe MOST Christians lie about actually believing any of it, because it's beyond rational belief. But, you don't have to actually believe it, you just have to say you're Christian to be a Christian. Bottom line is, Adolf Hitler was raised Christian and professed to believe it, whether he did or not. Was it Christianity alone that caused him to be so evil? Probably not, but it certainly may have been a contributing factor and he used its teachings to support some of his insane views.

          We could also make a very convincing argument that very few of our country's founders were actually religious. Many of them can be quoted to suggest that they may have been, but they lived in a time when it was even more politically necessary to pretend to believe in god. It doesn't take much research to see that many of them were basically their day's version of atheists.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:49 pm |
        • AE

          "Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease."

          Hitler 1941

          September 10, 2013 at 6:50 pm |
        • PennyK

          "Only when the entire German people become a single community of sacrifice can we expect and hope that Almighty God will help us. The Almighty has never helped a lazy man. He does not help the coward. He does not help a people that cannot help itself.

          The principle applies here, help yourselves and Almighty God will not deny you his as sistance."

          Hitler 1941 (during the war)

          September 10, 2013 at 6:53 pm |
        • Jake

          AE, having read an over a thousand page biography on Hitler, I conclude that Hitler was most definitely Christian, but also an ego-maniac. Eventually, as his power grew, he basically considered himself to be God and no longer needed religion to support his deep underlying insecurity.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:53 pm |
        • PennyK

          "May therefore God give us the strength to continue to do our duty and with this prayer we bow in homage before our dead heroes, before those whom they have left behind in bereavement, and before all the other victims of this war."

          Hitler 1942

          September 10, 2013 at 6:56 pm |
        • PennyK

          "I, for my part, acknowledge another precept which says that man must deal the final blow to those whose downfall is destined by God."

          Hitler 1942

          September 10, 2013 at 6:58 pm |
        • AE

          PennyK

          Now you are quoting that he believed in God, but not in Jesus Christ. I agree he believed in God.

          And some history experts believe he honestly thought he himself was "Almighty God".

          September 10, 2013 at 6:58 pm |
        • PennyK

          "The bomb which was planted by Colonel von Stauffenberg exploded two meters to my right. It seriously injured a number of my colleagues who are very dear to me; one has died. I myself am completely unhurt apart from a few minor skin abrasions, bruises and burns. I interpret this as confirmation that Providence wishes me to continue my life's mission as I have in the past.

          Few people can begin to imagine the fate which would have overtaken Germany had the assassination attempt succeeded. I myself thank Providence and my Creator not for preserving me – my life consists only of worry and work for my People – I thank him only for allowing me to continue to bear this burden of worry, and to carry on my work to the best of my ability.

          Once again I take this opportunity, my old comrades in arms, to greet you, joyful that I have once again been spared a fate which, while it held no terror for me personally, would have had terrible consequences for the German People. I interpret this as a sign from Providence that I must continue my work, and therefore I shall continue it."

          Hitler 1944

          September 10, 2013 at 6:59 pm |
        • AE

          Jake

          I believe Hitler hated Christianity. He praised Ja.pan for being free from the "disease".

          Dietrich Bonhoeffer seemed to be a more reasonable voice of Christianity from that era, and Hitler had him executed.

          September 10, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
        • AE

          "AE, I believe MOST Christians lie about actually believing any of it, because it's beyond rational belief. "

          Jake, I believe MOST Christians honestly believe in God. They are not lying.

          What is rational belief? I believe no human beings, Christian, atheist or agnostic, can hold some claim to rational belief. We are human beings who are imperfect and irrational. For me, belief that my understanding of the universe is more "rational" than someone else's leads me to arrogance. And that is not good for any human being.

          September 10, 2013 at 7:08 pm |
        • Jake

          AE, Rational belief is believing things based on evidence rather than based on what we wish were true. I find it incredibly hard to believe that there are many people who truly think there is a guy in the sky who runs the universe. I don't find it hard to believe, on the other hand, that there are millions of people who have been raised to think that in order to be good human beings, they must pretend to believe in a guy in the sky who runs the universe.

          September 10, 2013 at 7:17 pm |
        • AE

          Jake,

          I don't "think there is a guy in the sky who runs the universe." So I can't really address that opinion of yours. It is certainly not based in fact on my experiences with Christians.

          And I certainly don't know people "raised to think that in order to be good human beings, they must pretend to believe in a guy in the sky who runs the universe."

          My belief in God is based on evidence, not just things I wish were true. I honestly can not deny God. He is real and available to us today.

          September 10, 2013 at 7:29 pm |
        • Jake

          AE, if you actually had evidence and didn't share it with the world, that would be pretty selfish. I'm confident that if any such evidence were available, it would be the biggest news story in history. So either you're keeping this evidence to yourself, or it doesn't exist, or you're just delusional. I don't mean to be harsh, but it's delusional to believe in something with no real evidence...pretty much the definition of the word.

          I'm not going to get into the semantics of how you chose to define your particular version of "god". They're pretty much all basically a guy in the sky who runs the universe. And the fact that everyone gets to have there own version of what "god" actually is further goes to show that even if there is a god, only one version can be correct and the vast majority of god believers are by definition wrong.

          September 10, 2013 at 7:35 pm |
        • AE

          "a guy in the sky who runs the universe"

          Where did you get that idea? From cartoons?

          Jesus said "The kingdom of God is within you".

          Want to find God? Look within. He has placed Himself in each of us.

          It is like He literally has poured Himself into His creation.

          September 10, 2013 at 8:00 pm |
        • Jake

          Generally, people who believe in a god believe he is a being who created and runs the universe. It's not really relevant whether you think he lives in the sky or "within you". Both concepts are equally preposterous, which is why I said it's not worth discussing semantics. The bottom line is believing in god requires a suspension of logical thought.

          September 10, 2013 at 8:13 pm |
        • AE

          I look at the order and magnificence of the universe and conclude there is an intelligence behind it.

          In your opinion that is preposterous. But that is just all it is to me... an opinion.

          September 10, 2013 at 8:36 pm |
        • Jake

          I agree, the world is magnificent. I don't see how that in any way suggests that there's a god who created this world. And even if there was such a magnificent god, I'd have to also think that another god created him, by the same logic. The fact is, we just don't know how we got here, but the god hypothesis is incredibly unsatisfying in explaining anything at all.

          September 10, 2013 at 8:51 pm |
        • AE

          Personally you don't see it. Personally I do.

          September 10, 2013 at 9:15 pm |
        • Jake

          And like I said, your position is the definition of delusional.

          Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.

          September 10, 2013 at 9:33 pm |
        • AE

          Beauty, truth, love, morality, ethics, and every other aspect of our inner life is delusional by your definition, too.

          I'm glad I know that it is just your opinion that belief in God is delusional. There are many examples of great minds who have a great understanding of logic and reason that believe in God.

          September 10, 2013 at 9:45 pm |
        • Jake

          What is it about religion that you think gives it a monopoly on "beauty, truth, love, morality and ethics"?! It is lacking in all of those areas.

          September 10, 2013 at 10:23 pm |
        • AE

          I don't think religion gives me a monopoly on those things.

          I hope to believe your opinion on those things is just as valid as my opinion.

          I'm saying those things are like belief or disbelief in God. They can't be proven right or wrong by science.

          September 10, 2013 at 10:28 pm |
        • Jake

          There are an infinite number of things I could make up that can't be proven wrong. That doesn't mean they're legitimate to believe in.

          We can discuss this forever and you'll never make any headway. You are in a losing position – you believe in something that has no evidence to support it. That is delusional. Sorry, but that's the fact Jack.

          September 10, 2013 at 10:38 pm |
        • AE

          Yes, in your opinion, I am in a losing position.

          I do have evidence to support my complete trust and confidence in God. That is why I live my life the way I do.

          It is not like you think I am dangerously delusional, right? Like you may have a Christian doctor or fly on planes with Christian pilots and you really don't think they are dangerously delusional? Ultimately you place some trust in these type of people everyday, right?

          September 10, 2013 at 10:57 pm |
        • Ernest T Bass

          @AE....."It is not like you think I am dangerously delusional, right? Like you may have a Christian doctor or fly on planes with Christian pilots and you really don't think they are dangerously delusional? Ultimately you place some trust in these type of people everyday, right?"

          Except for the fact that thankfully these people don't confuse religion which is a product of their imagination, with the reality of what they're doing on their day jobs.

          September 11, 2013 at 11:41 am |
        • Johnny

          I don't know if Hitler was Christian or not, but the vast majority of the Nazis were Christian.

          September 11, 2013 at 11:57 am |
      • Ed Kidwell

        Stalin and Mao worshipped themselves.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:14 pm |
      • UncleBenny

        Yeah, what about them?

        September 10, 2013 at 6:15 pm |
      • Ed Kidwell

        Stalin and Mao worshipped themselves. They did all their heinous acts to show power no religion was involved.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:17 pm |
      • PennyK

        It wasn't about belief in gods per se. Stalin and Mao opposed organized religion, because it was a rival to their power, and a likely base for opposition.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:21 pm |
      • Jett

        You're right.

        Did you know that they both enjoyed coffee? We should ban that disgusting murderer-drink.

        Come to think of it, both of those people supported the idea of governmental power (that is, they were NOT anarchists). We should immediately adopt anarchism and burn the statists.

        Unless you can demonstrate that their *beliefs* led to their slaughter, this is a pointless exercise. One can EASILY show that the Crusaders (at least, those not like the corrupt papacy and their kings) were driven by RELIGIOUS fervor – they would not be so easily motivated without mythical unicorn sky gods to grant them rewards for genocide.

        Who am I kidding? I'm talking to a religious nutbag. I see no functional difference between you and the WBC, so I'm just letting myself get trolled.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:50 pm |
    • Cris

      You are delusional... Even atheist fought for the belief of others and died believing in NOTHING. Now that's a sad and wasted life.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:16 pm |
      • Ed Kidwell

        In the american system you can believe or NOT believe whatever you want. This silly" you must believe what WE want" is not in keeping with what this country stands for.Many atheists died in wars so that anyone could believe whatever they want or believe in NOTHING if they CHOOSE.This atheist doesn't care what you believe in whether it be christian, jewish catholic or VOODOO.You believe what you will and leave me alone.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:22 pm |
      • PennyK

        I believe in things when it's time to believe in them, not before there's any evidence that they actually exist.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:23 pm |
    • PennyK

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNN-M4wMbT4&feature=player_embedded

      September 10, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
  8. Harry Houdini

    Hey, Pellegrino, if you want to live "under God", why don't you leave?

    September 10, 2013 at 6:04 pm |
    • Ed Kidwell

      Right harry. There are plenty of theocracies for the zealots to live in.Look how prosperous and desirable those types of countries are.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
    • barrtoms

      ha is funny tho since they always saying this place isnt THEIR home neither, they all going to "live with god" the "true home of us all" afterwards.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:16 pm |
  9. John Calvin II

    I for one am tired of this war, this frontal assault by athiests using the courts as a weapong against religion and decency. And it is in fact a war. The athiests would use guns if they could, and once they get the law sufficiently on thier side, you had better believe that they will. Perhaps it's about time some of the conservative states succeed from the union and let the athiests try to turn it into a shooting war, if they've got the gumption. If they do, we'll send the athiests to judgment now so that they can see that there really is a God. And by the way, there won't be a civil war this time because the conservative states will own the nuclear weapons and other military resources that are on their territory.

    September 10, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
    • Observer

      John Calvin,

      The Bible's idea of decency is slavery and discrimination against women, gays, and the handicapped.

      Why not read one sometime?

      September 10, 2013 at 6:02 pm |
      • fred

        Yes, and the U.S. Army condones scalping Indians so go get em Observer.

        The Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1703 was offering $60 for each native scalp. Have you read your history books and scalped some Indians today?

        September 10, 2013 at 6:20 pm |
        • Observer

          fred

          "The Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1703 was offering $60 for each native scalp. Have you read your history books and scalped some Indians today?"

          Yep. Read my history book so I know the Massachusetts Bay Colony was an extremely religious Christian "thou shall not kill" group of hypocrites.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          How does that compare to a book that is supposed to set a high bar for morality and ethical behavior?

          September 10, 2013 at 6:36 pm |
        • fred

          Do you not really understand that what was part of culture 3,400 years ago and written to the Israelites applies to them and not others today? It would be nice if you knew the God loved by His Chosen People. Perhaps you would make reasonable assumptions about their laws.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:45 pm |
        • fred

          Santa
          I was jabbing Observer because he constantly takes verses that do no apply out of context in order to mock the Bible and Christians. My point was that scalping a few hundred years ago is wrong today and does not reflect on the U.S. Army manual of today. Slavery 3,400 years ago is wrong today and does not reflect on the Bible taken as a whole today. Slavery 3,400 years ago does not make Christians today backwards.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:50 pm |
        • Ernest T Bass

          @fred....."It would be nice if you knew the God loved by His Chosen People. Perhaps you would make reasonable assumptions about their laws."

          Why Fred? why would we have to make assumptions about anything? I mean after all, the bible is the word of god, right? no assumptions, no interpretations, right?

          September 11, 2013 at 11:46 am |
        • Johnny

          NO way, you can't just take god, the creator of the universe, at his word.

          September 11, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
        • fintastic

          Man invented gods so that would be the word of man...

          September 11, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
        • fred

          Ernest T Bass
          Observer likes to take verses out of context in an attempt to paint God as evil and followers as fools. My point was the passages on slavery he always refers to in Exodus were for the Hebrew at that point in time. If we know God as they knew God (based on their writings) we could see the love and protection God brought not evil.

          September 11, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
        • Observer

          fred loves to stick his head in the sand and PRETEND the Bible doesn't say what it does.

          The Bible says this, among other things about slavery:

          (Lev. 25:44-46) “Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.”

          So it says to treat Hebrew slaves better than those who aren't. That's really nice of God to do that.

          Yes. The Bible DEFINITELY does support slavery and it's disgusting and immoral. It even gives rules for how badly you can hurt them without punishment.

          fred needs to spend more time actually reading the Bible and less time fantasizing that it says things it doesn't.

          September 11, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
        • fred

          Johnny
          fantastic
          The Word of God is not confined to the written translations in the Bibles you have read. The Bible itself makes it clear that the Holy Spirit brings the truth to your heart as you read the Bible. The Word of God is written in a believers heart where it is safe from the things of this world. When Jesus referred points of the Old Testament he referred to Holy Scripture i.e the scrolls that were well understood and in the language of the chosen who were tasked with recording the word of God exactly as given. When we look back 3,400 years at say Exodus we are reminded that God frees us from the bondage of sin (Egypt) and that sin (Egypt) was and oppressive slave master and we were slaves captive by sin. That truth remains to this day and is the theme of redemption by the hand of God for those who accept Gods gift. That is the Word of God

          September 11, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
        • fred

          Observer
          You do not know God and have admitted this several times. Your false statements are proof that you do not know God and reveal your agenda to mock God and his followers. Please dig out the verses in the Bible that explain what kind of entity mocks God and mocks those who are faithful to God. Read those verses and they will reveal the nature of your soul.

          As to your false statements:
          "So it says to treat Hebrew slaves better than those who aren't. That's really nice of God to do that."
          =>no, in context the Hebrew are Gods chosen and they were redeemed from Egypt and belong to God. They cannot be purchased or taken by anyone because they belong to God. Your nonsense that they were better than others is the same logic Hitler used to paint the Jews as rich uncaring arrogant masters responsible for the oppressed condition of the German people. Shame on you Observer. Simply because God offers special protections for the Hebrew says nothing about the others, that is your evil twisting. We offer special protections today for gays, minorities etc., does that mean if your not gay our government condones your abuse. Looks like you need to know your loved and not looked down on. Well God paid the ultimate cost so you can be free of that bondage and know you are loved by the creator of this existence.

          "The Bible DEFINITELY does support slavery and it's disgusting and immoral. It even gives rules for how badly you can hurt them without punishment."
          =>no, God deals with people where they are in life not where they could or should be. It is called reality. It was not the Hebrew but the surrounding nations that were brutal and disgusting to slaves. The Hebrew were to treat slaves with love and offer redemption just as God did for the Hebrew when they were in Egypt. "I am the Lord your God who brought you out of Slavery". If you wish to be honest and fair then quote the verses where any Hebrew slave that wants redemption is to be redeemed and treated as the Hebrew is treated. They have a pathway to join the chosen.

          September 11, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
      • Elai

        Thats not true, bible respect women , gay and childrens. Ur ignorance in the bible makes u athiest.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:37 pm |
        • Big Chief No Grammar.

          Me tellum big story, you go! atheist bad medicine!.

          September 11, 2013 at 11:48 am |
    • Harry Houdini

      John, I agree. All this will become unnecessary if religious individuals become decent and stop imposing their beliefs on others by word, deed or otherwise.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
      • Rett

        How does someone impose their beliefs on someone by word? Just speaking out loud in public about it?

        September 10, 2013 at 6:13 pm |
        • ME II

          By indoctrinating children into their beliefs with daily forced attendance devotional pledges.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
        • fred

          I much prefer the atheist indoctrination of hate your country, disrespect its faithful, disrespect its flag and hope for a world where guns are melted down for plow shears.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:23 pm |
        • ME II

          @fred,
          What?

          September 10, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
        • sam

          Good old fred. Imaginary gods, made-up issues...must be stressful in your little fabricated world.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:35 pm |
        • truthprevails1

          "world where guns are melted down for plow shears."

          Not all guns, just the ones being used to kill humans. Hunting wild life is another story, so those guns I support. Simple regulations to prevent dangerous people from using them.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:36 pm |
        • fred

          ME II
          You imply that believers indoctrinate their children and that it is a negative action. I think yanking a kid out of the class pledge because the parents are militant atheists is far more harmful to the child. 75% of the church going children that return from college do not attend church. That is not indoctrination it is simply passing down the only world view we have known in thousands of years.
          Militant atheists that think existence would be better under a godless world are running the biggest gamble of our species. Our world has never existed in a godless mindset since earliest recorded history.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:57 pm |
        • fred

          Sam
          Good old Sam, still does not understand the difference between invisible and that which can be seen by faith. The reality is that God not the man made gods you refer to has a dominate influence on who you are today. You are a product of the Western World View any your opinion that God is or is not matters little.

          Tell me about what you see, is it limited to the physical with the rest being invisible? This non existence you believe you will enter upon death is that invisible also or does non existence have properties you cannot describe by sight?

          September 10, 2013 at 7:15 pm |
        • fintastic

          Before birth...... just like after death....

          "This non existence you believe you will enter upon death is that invisible also or does non existence have properties you cannot describe by sight?"

          September 11, 2013 at 12:27 pm |
        • fred

          fantastic
          The Bible gives us examples from our reference point of known observable forms. I do not really know the appearance because it will be new as we will be a new creation in Christ. As you may imagine it is all good very good to be exact and absent of all that is not good. This follows with the creative attribute of God that created life and of course Jesus who was the full reflection of the Glory of God. I do not think there will be streets of gold and walls of jasper as these are just our attempts to describe a wonder greater than anything observed in our lifetime.

          That is in stark contrast with non existence. Non existence is the opposite of creation which from everything we have observed continues to expand in all manner of wonder the more we look into the expanse of the universe and the micro movement of a quark. Non existence is contrary to the reality of our known world. We do not know non existence it is a belief held by a godless minority that is not supported by their own foundational philosophical naturalism. Atheism is contrary to that which is self evident and that which is substantiated by known natural laws.

          September 11, 2013 at 6:02 pm |
    • ME II

      @John Calvin II,
      Careful, the CIA might be listening. /sarcasm

      September 10, 2013 at 6:07 pm |
    • Jake

      You seem to know nothing about atheists. On average, they are much more intelligent than religious people and I find it hard to believe many intelligent people are pro-guns.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:07 pm |
      • Rett

        Educated or intelligent? How do you back up your premise?

        September 10, 2013 at 6:14 pm |
        • Jake

          By reading. Try reading The God Delusion if you want a good place to start.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:23 pm |
        • truthprevails1

          There have been studies done on this: http://rt.com/news/atheists-more-intelligent-religious-433/

          September 10, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
      • Jimmy Vick

        Allow us to venture into deeper waters and see if there is anything to be seen. My apologies for the verbosity, it is necessary however to convey my thoughts.

        Thomas Jefferson's brilliance is found in his handling of many critical concepts that most today sadly lack even the capacity to grasp, let alone realize the importance of. While I have been unable to fully pin down where on the spectrum of belief Jefferson fell between deism and atheism, it is very clear in the Declaration of Independence he saw the importance of our unalienable rights coming from an authority greater than that of other men. He settled on the concept of Nature's God and refers back to this construct as our Creator. It is very important that our unalienable rights come from Nature’s God and not men, or a state run by men for that matter. This was not some willy nilly decision made to placate the irrational followers of various churches at the time. It is and remains the strongest foundation upon which true freedom and liberty can be built. This ideal should never be forgotten.

        While our unalienable rights come from Nature's God, the citizenry of this country is free to choose from the free buffet before them of which if any they wish to follow. Further concepts of the separation of church and state at the time were very reasonable. The government should really have no interest in the business of any church. While the church should have no real interest in the government for we are a Democratic Republic and not a theocracy.
        In the US there is a vast multi-dimensional spectrum of thought, knowledge, and belief systems. Atheists share their own chunk of this spectrum ranging from Marxist to capitalist, Objectivist to collectivist, passive to militant, and so on. The following represents my own beef with militant atheists in the US and what they have cost us. It ends with a final challenge for them and everyone. The winner of this final challenge retains the right to teach objectively what truth is to the future generations of this country.

        A church is a collective of people who share a common consensus on a belief. Enter the modern militant atheist who yearns to see our unalienable rights stripped from Nature's God and placed back into the hands of man. The modern militant atheist holds up a golden ticket inscribed with the epitaph "If enough people believe in nothing together, we may one day reason beyond our collective hubris and be Nature’s God's ourselves". This golden ticket, based on the faith that one day mankind will overcome his seemingly infinite stupidity, somehow grants a special immunity to this collection of individuals sharing a consensus of belief in the disbelief in the existence of deities. It is an immunity that the Church of atheism has not earned and does not deserve.

        The summation of human knowledge can be represented as a tree which sprouted out of nothing. Militant atheism essentially argues that philosophy has attained atheism so all other philosophy is unnecessary. While new branches representing different sub categories of science all reach out for new knowledge, the roots of the tree like philosophy are cut off or left to die. The militant atheist flies a banner proclaiming "The objective search for truth through reason may be found right here". What one finds upon closer inspection in the church of atheism is a collection of people fighting to keep their individual dying tree of human knowledge alive. The militant atheist is unique in that he seeks to ensure the life of his tree by destroying the rest of the forest.

        The militant atheist’s realize that time will take care of the old trees in the forest eventually therefore it is prudent to focus attention on the young trees. The goal of the militant atheist is the abolishment of Nature’s God by means of contorting and semantically manipulating the separation of church and state within the US public school system. Here is how it is being carried out

        As the rational portion of the brain develops in the early teens, critical thinking through objectively teaching philosophy and knowledge theory in US public schools is not done intentionally. This omission is not done because teens cannot grasp this knowledge; it is done because nobody wants them to. Philosophy is omitted and knowledge theory is cherry picked. The militant atheist has already stepped in to nobly make a final decision for all regarding what is worth learning. The militant atheist will then kindly promote Greek mythology and the like in place of objective philosophy and knowledge theory. Instilling the concept of any God including Nature’s God as being inherently irrational is of utmost importance to the militant atheist’s cause. In that sense, the Church of atheism is fine with students learning about God's, just so long as they are ones they approve of.

        While I agree religious factions, denominations, and beliefs have no place in the scope of public education. The very concept of even Nature's God is rejected to the point that it rams through into the anti-philosophical and limiting knowledge theory just to be sure. This does not occur without a high unforeseen cost, our young are not taught to think for themselves to the fullest capacity they are capable. It is within this engineered and twisted intellectual landscape the US education system cleverly uses literary and history classes to attack religion. Students are taught the Greek Gods, the Malleous Maleficarum and witch hunting, Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God, the Scarlet letter, the fate of Hypatia of Alexandria, and so on. By the US education system trying to scuttle the concept of God or Nature's God in this way they take down philosophy, knowledge theory, and critical thought along with it. Some of the greatest human thoughts and arguments in history originated from the debate regarding an authority greater than that of man or Nature's God. Things do not really become clear until militant atheist Marxists reveal their true colors when they won't let Rand into the fray. Sadly, most people are engineered to be too stupid to see the humor in it. The good news is I can see the humor in it all. Now it is time for good sport.

        Here is the final challenge. There are constructs in the universe that currently represent a final boundary to all human knowledge. Most people can barely conceive that such constructs exist let alone the importance of why we must understand them fully. Some who can conceive of the constructs’ existence still deny their existence. These denying individuals are left wanning with every observation made. Those who have accepted the existence of the constructs are now grappling more than ever to understand them. Black holes must be bested by mankind to obtain the ultimate knowledge he desires most. There is a method for beating black holes that nobody has ever considered until me. If my seemingly impossible pursuit of ultimate truth ultimately ends in ultimate truth will people be as accepting of it and all it implies as I have been of all truth that preceded it? Or will I be condemned as Galileo was or worse?

        If the universe is fully understandable without suicide, I currently have it in check and checkmate is only a few moves away.

        September 10, 2013 at 10:10 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          " it is very clear in the Declaration of Independence he saw the importance of our unalienable rights coming from an authority greater than that of other men. "

          You think Thomas Jefferson put the 'creator' bit in? It certainly wasn't in Jefferson's first draft:

          "We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable; that all men are created equal and independent; that from that equal creation they derive in rights inherent and inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, and liberty, and the pursuit of happiness;"

          Look ma – no "creator".

          We don't know who in the committee inserted it, but chances are it was more likely Franklin or Adams. It has a deist ring to it that might have appealed to Adams.

          September 11, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
        • fred

          GOPer
          Nonsense, "endowed by their Creator" and the final sentence "We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions", all make it very clear where Jefferson stood.
          Perhaps it is time you realized your skepticism has clouded any reasonable thoughts you have when God comes into view.

          September 13, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
    • sly

      John, you are high on drugs if you think anyone else in America would care if the southern rednecks took their weak ass economies and poor people and formed their own state.

      Hell, my state, California, is the 6th biggest economy in the world, and likely the #1 military force in the world. We wouldn't fight y'all rednecks! We'd just kick back, smoke a fattie, and continue to enjoy our $150,000+ salaries and our beautiful women and our progressive, open minded citizens.

      Go ahead – seceed – y'all got your panties in a bun because a black man much more intelligent than you is your boss – the Leader of the Free World!

      And yes, I gotta love how President Obama, by himself, forced Russia to take control of Syria, while all the Republicans ran from the military option because they are afraid that Syria and Iran would kick our ass. Chicken-Hawks is what they are.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
      • UseITwisely

        Finally, I found my soul mate. Too bad for me that your probably a dude. Enjoy your journey brother!

        September 10, 2013 at 6:45 pm |
    • sam

      'Decency'

      That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
    • yeahright

      It's secede, not succeed

      Not that either one is going to happen.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:13 pm |
      • idon'twanttoliveonthisplanetanymore

        That is the problem right there. you have come to believe that being "christian" and "decent" are one in the same. You could not be more wrong. Once you come o realize there is no intrinsic "decency" to Christianity we will all get along a little bit better!

        September 10, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
    • John Calvin III

      You know so little about American history that you can't even spell "secede" properly. You obviously have no clue what you're arguing for, and your comment should be ignored and ridiculed to the fullest extent possible.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:15 pm |
      • Dippy

        And you, John Calvin, can't spell atheist correctly. So now what?

        September 10, 2013 at 6:34 pm |
    • Sammy Z

      That's the most rediculous thing I've heard all day. I know you said it on purpose to "troll" everyone but thanks! I needed that laugh.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:15 pm |
    • QS

      LMAO! "succeed from the union"! LMFAO!

      September 10, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • truthprevails1

      That was a load of bat shit crazy...put the crack pipe down and locate the nearest asylum, you're in need of help.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • SDFrankie

      Hey John. Don't you just hate it when you reach over to the night stand to turn off the alarm clock and accidentally knock your crack pipe in the floor?

      September 10, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Presuming those states could wean themselves from the Federal teat, who says they get to keep Federal property?

      September 10, 2013 at 6:39 pm |
  10. Willow

    Someone undersstimates the cost of moving to another country big time.

    That having been said, as an agnostic, I find fundamentalist atheists as annoying as fundamentalist religious folks. Live and let live. Let's all just try to get along.

    September 10, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
    • manwrench

      "fundamentalist atheists"

      Where are these fundie atheists everybody's always talking about? Where do they meet and agree on the Fundamentalist Atheist Agenda that is ruining America by making sure we don't actually have a state religion because, umm, that's actually why America was founded?

      Haha, live and let live indeed.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:24 pm |
  11. are122

    Just do like many others...take God out and arm the teachers. Seems to be the going thing.

    September 10, 2013 at 5:57 pm |
  12. Chris

    I would think most atheists (myself being one) wouldn't care one bit about this. Can I get an Amen?

    September 10, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • Tyler

      Amen to that hahaha

      September 10, 2013 at 5:59 pm |
    • minerva

      Amen, let them have their words. Doesn't mean a thing to me.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      If you have young children and you don't want an apparatus of the state implicitly reinforcing the idea to them on a daily basis that God is both real and that our nation is subservient to this deity (though the pledge in public schools) then yes, I can see why people do have a problem with it.

      Most atheists are willing to live and let live and there are bigger issues than this one. But it is symbolic and I support those people who want to revert the pledge to its original (more inclusive) form.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • barrtoms

      maybe you dont live in an ultra conservative place. trying being born and raised in the bible belt and not quite agree with them, you might start to understand the problem.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
    • Thinking12

      Amen. I actually find it rather amusing to see Christians trying to address their own insecurities with their religion by implementing things like this.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:10 pm |
    • QS

      Personally it doesn't bother ME....it bothers my senses of fairness and equality.

      I will always stand up to discrimination wherever it may show itself, and I honestly don't care if the place it comes from is one that is supposed to be caring and benevolent because even the most caring and benevolent of discrimination is still discrimination!

      September 10, 2013 at 6:22 pm |
    • ME II

      Unless, you have children in public school being forced to endure this religious indoctrination every day.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:22 pm |
    • Nursehope

      I do care because I have a child in the public school system. The "pledge" has outlived its usefulness by a decade or two. I do however support the recitation of it in private parochial schools where they can study junk science and deny climate change and learn to discriminate against others (gays, women, people of color, etc.) based on a theology. I believe it can be referred to as a "self-cleaning oven".

      September 10, 2013 at 6:40 pm |
  13. Tyler

    As an Atheist myself I pride my self in being tolerant of every person's religious views, customs and traditions. But I also pride myself on just not caring, which makes me the most tolerant type of person. Whether a person believes this or that, I don't care. I'm in this world to live my life and not theirs. I feel the fox news host is correct in saying Atheists who oppose the "under god" phrase 'don't have to live here'. This phrase is an American tradition, that needs not be changed for all this political correctness rhetoric (to use in place of other words I would have preferred to type). People need to learn how to more tolerant of other people. If this is such a huge problem to a person, they should live else where.

    Also as a person who has experienced many parts of the world, I feel that, not just Atheists, but any other religion's who opposes this saying should just hush up and be thankful to live in a country that allows freedom of religion. That fact America has freedom of religion, or lack of, should be enough to make every one happy. This is how America was made, and it should be kept this way. Every one need's to stop caring about such minuscule problems, and focus on the larger task at hand.

    September 10, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • Rob

      Actually, the "American Tradition" for the first 180+ years from the 1770's to 1954, "under God" wasn't part of the pledge, as the founding fathers did NOT want it there.

      It was defiled in the 1950's because of a "red scare".
      That's analogous to in 2001 going "Oh my gosh, unless we add "under Allah" to the pledge, we might get attacked by Muslims!"

      I'm sure Christians would have a hissy fit if that were the case and would clamor to have it changed back, but since it's "God" and not "Allah" the Christians are fine with the defilement.

      The founding fathers would be ashamed that the pledge was changed in the first place, and would applaud the removal of "Under God" back to how THEY INTENDED IT.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
    • QS

      Sorry, but there is such a thing as too much tolerance, and too much tolerance of discriminatory beliefs and insti.tutions is not something you can justify no matter how much you try to claim you just don't care because if you truly didn't care you wouldn't be an Atheist.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:27 pm |
    • EnjaySea

      Wow, I'm praying to God now that I could become a TylerAtheist.

      In the meantime, maybe you might study some history, and see what religions do when they control governments and populations, then get back to me about how tolerant we should all be.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:34 pm |
    • Dippy

      Tyler, it's "religions" and "needs", not "religion's" and "need's". A fifth-grade grammar lesson for you.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
      • RC

        Wow Dippy. You're slipping. There are at least 3 more errors in Tylers' post that you didn't even mention. SHUT UP!!

        September 11, 2013 at 7:46 pm |
  14. Rich

    Rather than the atheists leaving, can we invite the Christians to depart?

    September 10, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
    • tiredofallthecrap

      According to the teachings of the Bible, Rich, we will depart eventually to a heavenly kingdom. Where will all of the atheists be?

      September 10, 2013 at 6:04 pm |
      • minerva

        I am not Rich but I can answer as one who was brought up not Atheist, although that is what I am now, but in a religion that does not believe in a heaven where people go after they die. There are many of those. So I guess that is where Atheists will go too.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
      • sam

        Don't much care, as long as I don't have to spend it with punks like you.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:10 pm |
      • Rob

        Considering most "Christians" actively oppose Jesus' teachings, I'd imagine most Atheists would be in Heaven and most "Christians" would be in a slightly "warmer" climate.

        Fact is, many people associate "Christians" with "Ignorance, Bigotry, and Hate".
        Pretty much completely opposite of what Jesus wanted.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:12 pm |
      • UncleBenny

        All of the atheists will be just the same as all the believers – dead.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:17 pm |
  15. John

    As an atheist myself, if you let this bother you, you need to get a life.

    September 10, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
    • ME II

      Unless, of course, you have children in public schools that are being forced to listens to this pledge every day.

      September 10, 2013 at 6:20 pm |
      • ME II

        oops, "listen"

        September 10, 2013 at 6:21 pm |
    • QS

      As an Atheist myself, if this DOESN'T bother you you need to get off your complacency!

      September 10, 2013 at 6:24 pm |
    • EnjaySea

      As the grandparent of school age children, I have a problem with (and have always had a problem with) believers getting to advertise for free to my grandchildren every morning at 8am.

      If you don't have a problem with that, then you must think it's perfectly okay for third parties to force feed children with their lies and superstitions. Well, good for you!

      September 10, 2013 at 6:28 pm |
  16. EnjaySea

    Christians don't have to live here. There are plenty of lovely theocracies out there to choose from. The United States doesn't happen to be one of them.

    September 10, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
    • barrtoms

      they could never understand that. lol

      September 10, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
  17. Kevin

    I don't believe in God, but who cares.

    September 10, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
  18. mongol1

    Many of North American colonists came here because they were persecuted in Europe because their beliefs were not "politically/religiously correct". It was the foundation of the principle of separation of church and state in the United States, as established by our founding fathers. The pledge of allegiance is not a prayer, it's an affirmation of patriotism for our Nation. As such the phrase "under God" is discriminatory and exclusionary against Americans who choose not to believe in a deity and has no place in the pledge of allegiance. Put God in your prayers, not in a secular affirmation. We are not a Christian version of an Islamic Republic. The Supreme Court is wrong, as is Congress. "Chris" above is wrong, I don't find it meaningless, I see it as a means by Christians to make non-Christians 2nd-class citizens.

    September 10, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
  19. Geurge Busch

    Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. I'm an american. I live here. If you don't like it – you leave.

    September 10, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
  20. Stevi

    As an Atheist.. I could care less if "Under God" is taken out. I said it while I was in school. Not because I believe in it, but I believe in everything else our pledge states. Those Atheists who believe it is offensive are not true atheists. They are troublemakers who just enjoy stirring the pot. The Christian people who are in a rage over this, our country is based on religious freedom. We are not a Christian country. If you have a problem with that one basic truth, maybe it is you whom should leave.

    September 10, 2013 at 5:44 pm |
    • sybaris

      You were doing good until you said, "true Atheist".

      September 10, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
      • Dippy

        Or until he said "could care less" instead of "couldn't care less."

        September 10, 2013 at 6:40 pm |
    • tiredofallthecrap

      My family is of American Indian descent, which believed in Gods. Should I leave or do I have a right to be here?

      September 10, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
      • sly

        I thought the Christian White Men killed all of you Indians, you know, just before they enslaved all the Black Men and poisoned all the Mexicans with their Juni Serra brainwashing.

        Now ... those same Christian White Men are working on killing all the dark skinned non-Christians in other countries.

        How did you escape the weapons of the White Christian Males?

        September 10, 2013 at 5:58 pm |
        • tiredofallthecrap

          It appears to me that the Muslims are the ones killing the Christians in other countries. In what country do you speak of that the reverse is happening. Just curious...

          September 10, 2013 at 6:12 pm |
        • doobzz

          @ tiredoftryingtousemybrain

          It "appears' that way to you because you have a persecution complex. If you weren't so lazy, you'd find that they are killing Christians, Muslims, police, and anyone else who disagrees with their interpretation of their holy texts.

          Sorry, toots, you're not the special snowflake you think you are.

          September 10, 2013 at 6:46 pm |
        • cedar rapids

          'How did you escape the weapons of the White Christian Males?'

          by temporarily moving to canada

          September 11, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "Those Atheists who believe it is offensive are not true atheists."

      What's a true atheist. Do you have some kind of irreligious test for that?

      September 10, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "Those Atheists who believe it is offensive are not true atheists." No True Atheist would ever say what you just said, so I am more atheist than you. Beat up a straw man next, that's always good. And then look up "No True Scotsman."

      September 11, 2013 at 10:45 am |
      • acidgrin0

        Thank you.

        September 11, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.