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September 9th, 2013
03:29 PM ET
Fox News host: Atheists 'don't have to live here'By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - Fox News pundit Dana Perino said she's "tired" of atheists attempting to remove the phrase "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance, adding, "if these people really don't like it, they don't have to live here." The co-host of Fox's "The Five" was referring to a suit brought by the American Humanist Association in Massachusetts, where the state's Supreme Judicial Court heard a challenge to the pledge on Wednesday. The group's executive director, Roy Speckhardt, called the suit "the first challenge of its kind," but Perino begged to differ. Perino, who was White House press secretary for George W. Bush from 2007-2009, said she recalled working at the Justice Department in 2001 "and a lawsuit like this came through." The former Bush spokeswoman added that "before the day had finished the United States Senate and the House of Representatives had both passed resolutions saying that they were for keeping ‘under God’ in the pledge." "If these people don't like it, they don't have to live here," Perino added. David Silverman, president of the American Atheists, called Perino's comments "bigotry." "I, for one, am tired of those Christians, like Ms. Perino, who think that equality is somehow un-American," Silverman said. "If Ms. Perino doesn't like being only equal, it is she who will have to leave America to some other country that doesn't value religious liberty." READ MORE: Famous Atheists and Their Beliefs In 2002, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals sided with atheist Michael Newdow who argued that the words "under God" in the pledge amounted to an unconstitutional government endorsement of religion. The Supreme Court overturned that ruling. Congress added the words "under God" in 1954 amid the red scare over the Soviet Union. In November 2002, after the Newdow ruling, Congress passed a law reaffirming "under God" in the pledge. Greg Gutfeld, another co-host on "The Five," continued the discussion after Perino, saying the Pledge of Allegiance "is not a prayer, it's a patriotic exercise. In a sense, it's basically saying: Thanks for giving us the freedom to be an atheist." The Massachusetts case, which was brought by an unidentified family of a student at a school in suburban Boston, will be argued on the premise that the pledge violates the Equal Rights Amendment of the Massachusetts Constitution. READ MORE: Behold, the Six Types of Atheists It is the first such case to be tried on the state level: All previous attempts have been argued in federal court on the grounds that "under God" was an unconstitutional violation of the separation of church and state. CNN's Kevin Conlon contributed to this report. soundoff (7,255 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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It's a free country. You know these religious freaks don't have to live here. They can go and live in one of the theocracies about. In other words, her statement is a double edged sword. It cuts both ways. Perhaps she's just too low on the intelligence scale to realize that.
The pledge as originally written: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.". No mention of God, but then people had to go and mess with it
Naturally it's lookin' at things backwards and slightly off and just like serpent talk in the garden. The republic Servants should be pledging to the Masters. Servants gone WILD!!
First off, does this idiot even know that the phrase "under God" was added in the 50's. I'ts not even original...
So what? Are we to go back to horses and buggies because cars are not the original way of transportation?
You do know that your logic is moronic and makes no sense.
This post alone says exactly what we need to know.
Not very smart.
John, take two aspirins and change diaper and then go to bed. You really need some sleep.
Sorry, you have me confused for one of your relatives. I don't live in a trailer park.
Highly educated, two graduate degrees, have a full and healthy life and I volunteer on the weekends to help other people, just like Jesus.
Unlike the American Christian.
Your reply s are so unintelligent but you think if you reply to everyone with at least a comment that you have scored some points.
But the truth is you only reveal how simple minded you are.
Glad for you, but i was afraid that you would also tell me that you hold a Nobel Prize for Peace.
No but if I did, I wouldn't have to say that I was an Atheist. It would be obvious.
because it would reflect that I am intelligent. and I can read.
You're just like the wind, if you know what i mean lol.
@AtheistFools
I love your use of sound logic and reasoning. I can see why you are religious
And i can see how narrow minded you are.
'And i can see how narrow minded you are.'
you havent exactly been the beacon of open mindedness yourself
Forced religious acknowledgement by everyone is not an improvement
The folks who espouse a "love it or leave it" mentality do not understand the true nature of these United States of America and are in fact, ignorant of history. We are a nation of constant change...hopefully for the better. We are not a Christian nation. Never have been. We are a nation of many religious beliefs or lack thereof. A pledge that is recited by school children should be one that does not show favoritism toward one god.
Why do Christians choose to live in a Republic when they obviously prefer a Theocracy?
They were hoping, through the pro-choice/anti-contraception policy to out breed the rest of the nation and take over with votes but as they see the minority demographics swinging in favor of progress and equal rights they see their fantasy America they have always dreamed of slip away, which is why they are getting sooooo p i s s e d off. That and their Jesus hasn't shown up yet after so many had predicted his imminent return any day now for the last 40 years...
correction, pro choice meant to be pro-life
Let me preface this that I'm a Baha'i not a Christian. I don't think Christians in this country want to live in a Theocracy, I think what the majority of them want is to have back so many of the "Christian values" that they believe have been stripped from our society. I know many of them feel that we are allowing murder when abortions occur, the majority of them fear the further decay of the family by allowing gay marriage and most of all many of them fear the moral decay that occurs when people don't feel they are held to account by a higher authority (God) is constantly being advanced by those who don't believe in God. Whether you believe in these things or not, imho these concerns should be appreciated especially since they simply want a better society.
Very good Quinn, thanks.
They are NOT being stripped of their right NOT to marry a gay person, nor are they being stripped of their right NOT to have and abortion. Rather it is they who are denying others of their rights. Each of us is free to live as we choose, within the limits set forth under our const tuition. That is (or was) the advantage of living in the U.S.
You say they want a "better society" however the society they continue to attempt create is always better for some, but not for all.
There is nothing "better" about a society where specific individuals are denied equality because of the religious faith of the majority.
They don't so much want a better society as a ho/mogenous society full of people who think and act just like them.
Some of my ancestors risked their lives to move to the United States to escape a theocracy. Not all religious people want a theocracy.
Yes, I should have said, "SOME Christians." My apologies and I sincerely appreciate your ancestors for their service.
Then you should stop arguing with the atheists and join us in trying to stop the Christians who do want a Theocracy.
If Dana Perino doesn't LIKE living in a country with separation of church and state, she can move to Iran. In fact, all conservatives should move there – it's a social conservative's utopia. Religion is hopelessly entangled in the laws, the women know their place, and there are "no gays".
Patriotism originates from patriarchs. Socies wanna hug da whole wide wurld and sing.
There comes a time when we need a certain call
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
Oh, and it's time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all
We can't go on pretending day by day
That someone, somehow will soon make a change
We're all a part of God's great big family
And the truth – you know love is all we need
( CHORUS )
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
so let's start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me
Well, send'em you your heart
So they know that someone cares
And their lives will be stronger and free
As God has shown us
By turning stone to bread
And so we all must lend a helping hand
Religious? Athiest?
Try Apatheism! It's the best non-religion in existence.
I don't really see why it matters. If you want to say it then say it and if you don't want to you don't have to. I don't see why that is so complicated.
That's the problem with atheists, they say that they wanted it to be removed. After it will be removed we are guaranteed not being able to say it anymore, otherwise they will cry again. The solution is simple, let it be and those who don't like it just don't say it. And those who does then say it. And we are to listen to every demands by atheists then we're not out of the wood yet, because they're not about to quit complaining about everything.
cteditorials@hotmail.com
No, you will be able to say it if you want but it will be you inserting incorrect words into the pledge, not the official pledge. There was no reason to add the words in the first place. They weren't in there to begin with so everyone could be patriotic. Perhaps those people that argued to include it in the pledge in the 50s should have "found somewhere else to live"
How about REMOVING it and if you want to ADD it, you can. That seems equal. But somehow, that doesn't make sense to you. Because we don't live UNDER GOD, the country was not even founded by men who believed this. If we believe in Buddhism, why do I have to declare GOD? Liberty for all should mean just that, for ALL.
No Linden, that's the kind of lies you atheists are saying all the time, once you have it removed there will be no way that you will permit us to say it. You will find something else to cry about to stop us and we'll never be able to say it anymore.
Mr. A. Fool,
You are more than welcome to recite your version of the Pledge in the comfort of your church, home,or wherever you please. But the pledge, recited in a government sponsored venue, i.e. public school, should be one that represents all people. Like the flag and the original version of the Pledge of Allegiance.
Why don't you just do the same, just don't say it when you're in the comfort of your home. What's good for us is also good for you.
Hey AtheistFools: The real lie is the ones told by Christians who say people can skip over the under God part and not be punished by the school.
Silly socies. What a ruckus you have caused. Let's put two socies in the Thunderdome and solve it.
As much as I dislike FOX news and whom ever is affiliated with them I agree. If you dont like what America was built on it is other places where Christianity does not exist.
how wrong you are...
Read the first amendment. I might want to add that your religion was founded by a group of bronze age goat herders and they based their beliefs on myth fantasy and fiction. You can believe what ever you want but I don't expect me to follow.
True.....Any religion has no place in government; federal, state, county, etc.... Get with the times people. That goat herder was chewing on some wacky weeds then whatta ya know, we have the bible.....It's only real in someones make believe.
Who is making you follow? When you recite the pledge, IF you decide to recite it at all, you can simply say nothing or whatever you want to say in place of "God". Nobody is forcing you to pledge anything to God, you are pledging allegiance to the flag. Get a grip!
@Subterfuge
-If the purpose was to pledge allegiance to the flag...then "God" has no place in it to begin with. Take it out. You can
decide to add lib as you recite. All people shouldn't be force to affirm a delusion to recite a pledge. It's idiotic. You get a grip.
The Pledge of Allegiance isn't a Christian statement. In my opinion Jesus asks us not to pledge allegiance to a flag or government.
america was not founded by christians or christianity
Actually Christians were involved in the start of the country. And Christianity influences are apparent.
Too apparent. Needs to be reduced, preferably eliminated.
[Citation needed]
[Citation needed]
Are you familiar with Pilgrims? Or Puritans?
It is not absurd at all to suggest that Christians played a role in the foundation of this country. I'm not saying it is a good or bad thing. But according to my very secular public education, it was a fact.
Bigotry at its finest.
I think you missed the point. America was built on religious tolerance not religious persecution. The government is prohibited from endorsing any religion via the first amendment.
Telling people they have to leave the country they were born in because of what they believe is not very tolerant.
I hope you felt that way in 1950 when people wanted to change it originally... If they didn't like what American was built on (religious freedom) THEY Should have left. When people fought to pervert it in the first place that was somehow good, trying to put it back the way the founders intended it to be is somehow bad?
They should return the Pledge to it's original form. The Red Scare is over. Assuming Dana Perino is anti-abortion, abortion is legal, so if she doesn't like that she can leave-:)
Its, not it's.
Of all the 6000+ posts here, no one has added less to the topic (read zero) than you.
SHUT UP!!!!!
Wow, you are clever. Is she filing lawsuits to make abortion illegal? Your two IQ points aren't cooperating today, I see..
You don't think Christians are attempting to pass laws to try and ban abortions? Have you been living in a cave recently?
It's ironic. In this context, Perino is the one complaining. Well, she doesn't have to live here, where atheists stand up for their rights. She's free to live where they would not have the option. It would be much quieter there for her. And much quieter here for the rest of us.
Did anyone notice that David Silverman claims that it is un-American to demand equality while denying the right of the vast majority of Americans to their right to honor God. How equal is it to demand that everyone say the Pledge of Allegiance that only atheists support?
How is not including the words "under God" denying you any right whatsoever? How does it take away your right to honor God? Are you saying that the only way you can exercise your rights is to force your views on others? A Pledge without that phrase is not atheistic, it's neutral. No one is suggesting the phrase be changed to say "no god". Stop being so insular.
Agreed. It's a neutral statement of a commitment to American unity. I think it's a rather beautiful sentiment, and I find it terribly ironic that the Pledge is now being used as a wedge to divide us, given iBellamy's original intent was to reignite our passion for national unity following the ugliness of the Civil War.
That will be a hard one for atheists to answer lol.
You mean because it's such a stupid question?
No because the question is a trap, there's no way out , you will get caught if you even try to answer lol.
What do you find unacceptable about the original version?
"I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
I love the simple minded backwards logic used by the religious. The fact that this poster does not see how silly his argument is, says everything we need to know about him.
Not very smart
Glad for you, on the other hand you atheists don't need to say much for us to find out a lot about you.
You are correct, we say everything by being Atheists.
Intelligent, not easily fooled, literate, etc...
John did you for forgot to take those two aspirins i asked you?
See your comment here is exactly the point, no reasoning, no intelligence, just nothing.
Just nothing to add.
Ok John, since you are so intelligent and built like Mr.T...Why do you lower your Royal Highness Self to respond to a poor lower class like me?
@AtheistFools
Because fools like you are trying to shove your religion on those that do not want it.
Sometimes when you take out the trash your hands get dirty.
Speaking about trash, you should look at your life style. Doing things which are not natural. Feces lover. I wouldn't call others trash if i were you.
feces lover? It sounds to me like you are projecting your likes and desires onto John.
Are you only equal when you get the government to force your beliefs down everybody's throats? I don't think I like that brand of equality.
Up until the 1950s everyone supported the version without "under God". Why do you insist on an exclusive version that fewer people support? How is that equal?
If Ms Cupp truly thinks that non-believers need to leave her precious "Christian nation," I dare her to put that principle into action, by tracking me down (cynical, godless agnostic heathen that I am) and throwing me out.
What does Ms Cupp have to do with this?
You do not have to say the pledge. No-one is forcing you to say it, but do not take my right away to say it.
You have every right to say it however you want, it just doesn't need to be a part of the written version.
With all the talk these days about atheism and "no religion" really sums up the mess our country is in today. More people abusing drugs and alcohol like never before. Suicide rate skyrocketing because people have no purpose in life. That's where God comes in...He gives people a reason to live. I truly believe all you people out there that choose to be agnostics or atheists enjoy watching others fail. Good stuff...not.
You don't have to say the pledge, sure. But when you're the only fifth grader doing something, you run the risk of being ostracized and questioned for it. People equate not saying the pledge to not honoring your country.
So are you're saying that the only way to honor your country is to honor a deity that you don't believe in as well?
Sure a child can omit the phrase on his or her own, but in a class filled with 20+ classmates who are all doing it as well, why wouldn't a child feel a bit left out if not confused? It's like saying you don't have to -choose- to live in America. Or you don't have to -choose- to be a part of a region you were born in, when in all actuality, you were born there, and you have the same right to religious or nonreligious comfort as the person next to you.
Why should I have to move, or, "not say the pledge", simply because the pledge doesn't represent all Americans?
Wow can you be anymore of an idiot? What you just said is just so stupid.
Literally nothing you posted there is true, although it is the thought that counts.
So is ignorance a necessity to be anywhere near Fox News. It seems that "Separation of Church and State" and Freedom of religion as in the First Amendment. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" It seems that "under god" establishes or recognizes religion as part of the country. Which of course was only added to the Pledge of Allegiance June 14, 1954. Which of course was quickly brushed aside as if the addition of it, almost 200 hundred after the original First Amendment, is no big deal. Thinking this is no big deal is just another inhuman act by people claiming to be filled with the "love of Jesus". Way to be human and patriotic.
I'm an atheist and I don't drink or use drugs and I'm not suicidal. I very much have a purpose in life. I don't consider myself a lesser person no matter what you may believe.
I am perfectly happy allowing you your religious views as long as you don't shove them down my throat.
@may40
The country was already a mess a long time ago when it was largely christian and it is still predominately christian now so belief in a god solved nothing about these problems. All these problems still existed then. People become atheist and agnostic when they decide to stop being willfully ignorant and look at factual information. If people need to believe fiction in order to have purpose to their life....what does that say about them?
No one is saying you can't go to church.
But they are trying to take away our heritage.
How so?
Your heritage as of 1954? Who are you referring to when you say "our"? I was born and raised in America but you're not talking about my or my family's heritage. Are you implying that I am unpatriotic or un-American because I don't believe in your made-up deity?
I've heard the same statement used by southerners who (both then and now) argued against that war of northern aggression and then later by those who objected to the "imposition" of federal civil rights laws in the Jim Crow south . . .
Actually, I was forced to say it in school. And seriously, do you think a young child should have to abstain from reciting the pledge, and make a scene in front of the whole class, and face all that would result from that? I'm so tired of the one-sidedness.
Actually, in schools here in WA state the children are being forced to say it. And when you think about it, if someone is being forced to pledge allegiance to their nation by the government, then really they are pledging allegiance to the government. But the nation is not the government. I love my country, but am often not fond of my government. In this case the pledge is really more government propaganda, and then you add the 'under God' bit and it's a form of bigotry to boot. Separation of church and state is a vital component of our democracy.
When I was in elementary school they did force me to say the pledge of allegiance so yeah they actually do do that.
I guess some people prefer Liberty and Justice only for those who believe in God, and the rest can just suck it or leave. Sounds like a theocracy, not a democratic republic.
No one is forcing anyone to say "under God" so there are no issues of liberty or justice involved.
Actually, some teachers DO force children to recite the entire pledge, legal or not. But, going by your own words, would you be OK with the pledge being changed to say "without God"? Hey, no one is forcing you to say it.
They forced me to say pledge of allegiance in school so yeah they do do that. I don't ever remember being given an option to opt out.
No, actually, we prefer liberty for ALL. Translation...you don't HAVE to say under God if you don't want to, or don't believe in it, we on the other hand, are free TO say it. YOU don't have the right to remove our right to say it, WE don't have the right to FORCE you TO say it. See, just leave it alone, and we all win.....but noooooo, the atheists aren't happy unless they remove the rights of those who WANT to say it...talk about intolerant.
We're not denying your right to say anything, Lexi. How did you ever get that idea? We just want to remove it from the official written version because it conflicts with the constitution. Is that concept over your head?
And what else atheists will be demanding next?
Yes, it's over their head.
Yeah, that's pretty obvious, isn't it? But it just can't be made any simpler for them.
You have every right to believe whatever you want. You don't have a right to enshrine your beliefs in a sometimes obligatory nation state pledge. I don't ask you to say 'under the great spaghetti monster' in the pledge. You shouldn't ask me to say 'under God'.
I often wonder why Christians are so insecure about their god? Is it really necessary in the pledge? From what I remember of the bible, it is an insult to have it on money. And yet they cry and scream and tell us to leave MY country if we don't like your god. Sounds like you are the one with the problem
No if you don't believe in God then don't say it. No one is forcing you. By the way a true atheist wouldn't care about the words "under God" because in the eyes of an atheist "God" is nothing more than make believe, a fairy tale...why care. A true atheist would laugh at anything pertaining to God. So when people who claim to be an atheist get all hot and bothered by this then I know they just want to start trouble. They are argumentative and divisive and yes they should just move to let's say China or maybe Russia, they'd fit right in.
Why go to China? Here everything is made in China including the word "under whatever" carved in the stuffs that are made in China.
Lets just add in a bit about under the Flying Spaghetti monster and then you can just not say that part when you come to it. I'm sure you won't have any objection to that because you are so interested in being equal.
Yeah-that flying spaghetti monster scares the h&ll outta me.
Atheists = Drama Queens
LMAO! You obviously haven't paid close enough attention to the religious comments, have you?
i.e. – "ugh, these uppity Atheists thinking they have rights of their own and should be able to believe something other than what we tell them to! Man, how annoying when people think for themselves and don't conform to our way of thinking! GRRRRR!"
Sound about right?
You said that right!
Every single day there are atheists activist demanding to remove this or to include that. We never see the end of day with you. You are crying and whining every single day. Don't you get tired sometimes?
The above was directed to QS,
Yes, we very definitely get tired of having to defend our freedoms against theocrats like you.
To be honest i go to bed at night without a single thought about you atheists, and i'm sure the majority of people does the same. But for some reason you on the other hand always have the itch to attack and annoy religious people. What is it with you, is it a mental deficiency that cause you to act this way?
I know lots of atheists and all are quiet, unassuming types, who live peacefully with people of faith. Personally, I am an atheist, but with a deep respect for the tenets of Christianity and those who live their mission to serve (not prosthelytize). I would prefer that the original pledge is reinstated, but I am content to recite the sans-God version, which I think better reflects American ideals. I do not think I am terribly unusual.
Of course you forget that atheists only make demands AFTER theists have made demands and gotten their way. Atheists only ever fight back.
What was the original version of the pledge again? Who whined and stomped their feet until they got it changed? Atheists are just trying to correct the crap theists have rammed through in violation of the law.
Cant remember the last time an ATHEIST came to my door trying to convert me
I agree Karen there are some quiet atheist, not too many but there are some. I wish more atheist would be like you. I can honestly say that you are like sweet honey compare to other atheists. The others should be more passive like you, that would open up a new dimension for a better communication when atheists are asking for something.
Yes we demand a complete separation of church and state, just like our forefathers intended.
Can't be more simple than that.
Listen Up, His Royal Highness John Mr T has spoken.
@Atheistfools
I love how when you have no intelligent argument, and that is obvious on every post, you resort to childish banter.
You only make my point stronger
To be honest i go to bed at night without a single thought about you
atheists, and i'm sure the majority of people does the same. "
– right.....which is why you seem to spend a significant amount of time on here whining about what
atheists do and other such nonsense. So obviously, you spend a lot of time thinking about atheists.
What about the Christian nuts who issued death threats to have the American Atheists billboard taken down in Charlotte? What about the Christian nuts who do the same elsewhere? Or the ones who deface them? Are they "drama queens"?
I find it hilarious that someone who threatens others with permanent torture for the crime of holding a different view would then call those people "drama queens".
What about an atheist on this blog saying it would be time for atheists to use arms against religious people? Go back and read, i'm not doing your homework. There was another atheist that replied to him saying it was not right to say that. I've seen more serious threats made by atheists people on these blogs than the ones you are complaining about.
@AF............ judging from your posts, it sounds like you're about 12 years old...
And she is 100% correct. The USA has turned into "the tail wagging the dog" because of the American Bar Association
and these minorities wanting to suck out of the American trough but refusing to accept how all this wealth was created.
And what laws and rules we live under that allowed this to happen.
I did not know all American wealth was generated by bigots... oh, wait, it wasn't so you can go shut the fvck up now.
Never want to pass up an opportunity to indoctrinate the kiddies!
Tell me why you choose to live in a Consiti-tutional Republic when, clearly, you prefer a Theocracy.
'but refusing to accept how all this wealth was created.'
slavery? what does that have to do with it?
..........
... http://www.GODisIMAGINARY.com ... and thank goodness ...
... because he emanates from the ..... http://www.EVILbible.com
..........