September 9th, 2013
03:29 PM ET

Fox News host: Atheists 'don't have to live here'

By Daniel BurkeCNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
[twitter-follow screen_name='BurkeCNN']

(CNN) - Fox News pundit Dana Perino said she's "tired" of atheists attempting to remove the phrase "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance, adding, "if these people really don't like it, they don't have to live here."

The co-host of Fox's "The Five" was referring to a suit brought by the American Humanist Association in Massachusetts, where the state's Supreme Judicial Court heard a challenge to the pledge on Wednesday.

The group's executive director, Roy Speckhardt, called the suit "the first challenge of its kind," but Perino begged to differ.

Perino, who was White House press secretary for George W. Bush from 2007-2009, said she recalled working at the Justice Department in 2001 "and a lawsuit like this came through."

The former Bush spokeswoman added that "before the day had finished the United States Senate and the House of Representatives had both passed resolutions saying that they were for keeping ‘under God’ in the pledge."

"If these people don't like it, they don't have to live here," Perino added.

David Silverman, president of the American Atheists, called Perino's comments "bigotry."

"I, for one, am tired of those Christians, like Ms. Perino, who think that equality is somehow un-American," Silverman said. "If Ms. Perino doesn't like being only equal, it is she who will have to leave America to some other country that doesn't value religious liberty."

READ MORE: Famous Atheists and Their Beliefs 

In 2002, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals sided with atheist Michael Newdow who argued that the words "under God" in the pledge amounted to an unconstitutional government endorsement of religion. The Supreme Court overturned that ruling.

Congress added the words "under God" in 1954 amid the red scare over the Soviet Union. In November 2002, after the Newdow ruling, Congress passed a law reaffirming "under God" in the pledge.

Greg Gutfeld, another co-host on "The Five," continued the discussion after Perino, saying the Pledge of Allegiance "is not a prayer, it's a patriotic exercise. In a sense, it's basically saying: Thanks for giving us the freedom to be an atheist."

The Massachusetts case, which was brought by an unidentified family of a student at a school in suburban Boston, will be argued on the premise that the pledge violates the Equal Rights Amendment of the Massachusetts Constitution.

READ MORE: Behold, the Six Types of Atheists

It is the first such case to be tried on the state level: All previous attempts have been argued in federal court on the grounds that "under God" was an unconstitutional violation of the separation of church and state.

CNN's Kevin Conlon contributed to this report.

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Atheism • Belief • Church and state • Courts • Culture wars • News media • Schools • TV

soundoff (7,255 Responses)
  1. American atheist

    You know I'm free, free now baby
    I'm free from your spell
    I'm free, free now
    I'm free from your spell
    And now that it's over
    All I can do is wish you well

    September 13, 2013 at 12:56 am |
  2. may

    Sartre, admitted: “Everything is indeed permitted if God does not exist....
    Nor...are we provided with any values or commands that could legitimize our behavior” (1961, p. 485). The atheist and agnostic have absolutely no platform on which to stand to make moral or ethical distinctions—except as the result of purely personal taste. The mere fact that they concede the existence of objective evil is an unwitting concession there is a God Who has established an absolute framework of moral judgments.


    September 13, 2013 at 12:52 am |
    • Observer


      Of course atheists and agnostics have morals.

      That's why they don't support slavery and discrimination against women, gays and the handicapped LIKE the Bible does.

      September 13, 2013 at 12:55 am |
      • alqeada

        that's right observer. good point

        September 13, 2013 at 1:06 am |
      • al brown 2

        that's right observer. good point!

        September 13, 2013 at 1:07 am |
      • crevassebodydumper

        It is really cool how this forum is completely censoring some things and not others, pretty amazing really. Par for Marxists.

        September 13, 2013 at 1:07 am |
      • al brown

        that's right observer. good point!!

        September 13, 2013 at 1:08 am |
      • al

        that's right observer. good point!!!

        September 13, 2013 at 1:08 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      We live in a society and hold one another accountable. That's about it. I don't think you could do good or evil alone in a vacuum - for various reasons.

      September 13, 2013 at 1:05 am |
      • nosir

        The atheist and agnostic have absolutely no platform on which to stand to make moral or ethical distinction

        sorry charlie

        September 13, 2013 at 1:18 am |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          God knows what's right and wrong. He'll set us all straight when he comes along. Any minute now...

          September 13, 2013 at 1:23 am |
        • Observer


          Fortunately, most Christains don't follow many of the commands in the Bible.

          September 13, 2013 at 1:42 am |
        • Roger that

          Give me a break. Do any of you people actually read the Bible. I'm not perfect by any means, but I have much higher moral standards than that of the Bible god. I know that you do as well nosir.

          September 13, 2013 at 4:46 am |
    • doobzz

      It's interesting that you post that atheists and agnostics have no basis from which to form morals and ethics by plagiarizing the article "Did God Approve of the Extermination of Humans?" by Dave Miller, Ph.D. on Apologetics Press.


      Liar. Thief. Hypocrite.

      September 13, 2013 at 2:28 am |
    • Anabasis

      Oh, are we quoting Sartre while obviously not actually reading his works?

      How this makes me feel: If Benjamin Franklin had said, "I hate America Kraft Singles" and you wrote, "Even Benjamin Franklin said, "I hate America" – growl! When everything is possible you comprehend the preciousness of life and so develop a morality in a mature, honest fashion. With the bible, it's out of fear or promise of a pay-off.

      September 13, 2013 at 5:29 am |
      • S-3B Viking

        Bravo, Anabasis.

        When two humans interact "morality" is automatically in play (and if there were only one human, amid nature, morality should be present but we haven't evolved to that level yet).

        The fact of our interaction establishes a morality...we just fill in the finer points by creating language, writing, creating sacred texts, and creating works of philosophy.

        No God need dictate.

        September 13, 2013 at 6:07 am |
  3. may


    herein lies one of their many traps. they cannot address it. they will never address it. they run. they flee. they cry fowl. they moan and complain always. they have nothing.

    why were they upset to hear about a widowed christian? a woman who is deluded, forces children to be brainwashed with "under god" statements of poison, who vote to ruin the lives of americans?

    not too bright. lol sorry observer, u stupid idiot, but i do love rubbing your nose in it you demon infested snake

    Sartre, admitted: “Everything is indeed permitted if God does not exist....
    Nor...are we provided with any values or commands that could legitimize our behavior” (1961, p. 485). The atheist and agnostic have absolutely no platform on which to stand to make moral or ethical distinctions—except as the result of purely personal taste. The mere fact that they concede the existence of objective evil is an unwitting concession there is a God Who has established an absolute framework of moral judgments.


    September 13, 2013 at 12:51 am |
    • doobzz

      You plagiarized this from "Did God Approve of the Extermination of Humans?"by Dave Miller, Ph.D., on Apologetics Press.


      Liar. Thief. Hypocrite.

      September 13, 2013 at 2:33 am |
      • karie

        Punk. Read his statement at the bottom of the page, u horse's rear end

        September 13, 2013 at 3:07 am |
        • doobzz

          Doesn't matter what it says at the bottom of the page. You stole someone else's words and posted them as your own.

          Liar. Thief. Hypocrite. Troll.

          September 13, 2013 at 10:53 am |
    • Anabasis

      from Mr. Sartre hisself –

      "Not that we believe God does exist, but we think that the real problem is not that of His existence; what man needs is to find himself again and to understand that nothing can save him from himself, not even a valid proof of the existence of God. In this sense existentialism is optimistic. It is a doctrine of action, and it is only by self-deception, by confining their own despair with ours that Christians can describe us as without hope."

      September 13, 2013 at 5:34 am |
      • i see

        so, point being, agreed, u believe sartre makes sense. u got nothin.

        September 13, 2013 at 10:05 am |
  4. DUMBAtheiSTS

    If all Christians urinate in a dry olympic-size swimming pool, all American atheists surely have enough space to swim on simultaneously.

    September 13, 2013 at 12:34 am |
    • MAJORITY always WINS

      And if Silverman doesn't know how to swim, how awful for him to get drowned in a pool full of urine.

      September 13, 2013 at 12:37 am |
      • atheists KEEP OUT!

        It would be fine should it happened, he's full of sh it, anyway.

        September 13, 2013 at 12:43 am |
  5. Jimmy Vick

    The goons at CNN are not moderating this forum they are outright censoring it.

    September 12, 2013 at 11:25 pm |
    • Extra Medium

      Just like the foolks at Fox would censor out the word 'ALLAH'

      September 12, 2013 at 11:40 pm |
    • Fact Hard

      Just like my post...gone in 30 seconds. But no matter what they cand hinder the hard fact that..

      If all Christians leave, America becomes a lonely place. But when all atheists leave, it's just another ordinary day for America.

      They can censor it anytime they like.

      September 13, 2013 at 12:22 am |
      • Fact Hard


        September 13, 2013 at 12:23 am |
      • myklds

        Even more peaceful, perhaps.

        September 13, 2013 at 12:28 am |
      • Observer

        Fact Hard,

        If all hypocritical Christians left, we might be Indian territory again.

        September 13, 2013 at 12:32 am |
        • Analizer


          Yes perhaps, but absolutely, it could never be an atheists' country.

          September 13, 2013 at 12:41 am |
        • Observer


          "Yes perhaps, but absolutely, it could never be an atheists' country."

          It certainly couldn't in the near future, but trends show you can't say never.

          September 13, 2013 at 12:43 am |
        • mederata

          It was never an Indian territory. Columbus called them Indians cos he set out to find "India" in the worlds race to reach there first. As usual men have bad direction sense and lost his way. So US will not be technically Indian territory. Accurately it goes back to "natives". Id call these guys Native Americans (not Indians). And those who came from Europe now as Euro Americans.

          September 13, 2013 at 12:46 am |
        • Observer


          As long as you want to try to get technical, I'll point out that they NEVER called themselves "Native Americans" since "America" didn't exist until the aliens landed here.

          September 13, 2013 at 12:50 am |
        • Analizer


          Dream on.

          September 13, 2013 at 1:01 am |
        • Observer


          I don't dream about that. I'd much prefer us becoming a nation of agnostics, which is much more likely.

          September 13, 2013 at 1:21 am |
      • aimonemarketing

        If all the atheists were to leave, America would instantly be without most top scientists, many key business leaders and a noticeable amount of medical care providers. Relative crime rates would spike (as Atheists, as a rule, tend to commit much less crime).
        Tax revenues would plummet- Atheists are much more common in that infamous 1%.

        September 13, 2013 at 4:39 am |
        • Bible Clown©

          Seriously? If the atheists all left, the churches would be empty. 80% of churchgoers are just keeping up appearances.

          September 13, 2013 at 9:52 am |
        • Fact Hard


          You mean, the likes Richard H. Bube, Ian Barbour, Dr. Ben Carson, (the late)Steve Jobs, etc.? You must be kidding me!

          September 16, 2013 at 5:57 am |
        • Fact Hard

          Bible clown

          Proof please...

          September 16, 2013 at 6:00 am |
    • Jimmy Vick

      My original post was.

      A proper compromise would be a return to Jefferson's neutral concept of "Nature's God" for all federal and state purposes. “Nature’s God” is the concept upon which our freedoms and liberties are based upon. "Nature's God" is a simple construct of greater authority than that of any human which anyone in the citizenry can freely choose to believe or disbelieve in based upon their personal convictions. All sides in this argument bear historical blame for semantic manipulation and intellectual demagoguery regarding the subject.

      For our legal tender: “In Nature’s God we Trust”

      For our pledge: “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under Nature’s God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

      And so on, and so forth.

      Akira replied:
      Well, but those two things that you are referring to was not added into the Pledge or our money until the 50's red scare; as you probably know, the Pledge wasn't originally written that way.
      And by capitalizing God, it denotes that it is the Christian God that you're referring to. If you want it to be properly neutral, it should be "Nature's god."

      September 13, 2013 at 12:50 am |
      • Observer

        Jimmy Vick,

        Atheists don't believe in ANY gods so you need to try again. You haven't accomplished anything.

        September 13, 2013 at 12:53 am |
        • Jimmy Vick

          My replies are being completely censored.

          I replied to Akira:
          I agree with your points regarding the Red Scare; however I was merely suggesting the use of "Nature's God" as a historically based alternative.

          Upper case "G" “God” is typically associated with all Abrahamic religions of which over 50-53% of the world’s population follow. Upper case "G" “God” also implies a supreme authority that is not of mankind.

          Jefferson clearly uses a capital "G" “God” in his penning of the Declaration of Independence. It is my opinion that this was done with willful purpose and not by some sleight of hand. Just as Jefferson penned the "N" in "Nature's" capitalized. I suspect Jefferson did not advocate the "Abrahamic religions" as much as he agreed with the ideal of a supreme authority that was not of mankind. In that respect the term "Nature's God" is a dual concession on behalf of nature's unknowns and unknowns regarding supreme authority.

          September 13, 2013 at 12:56 am |
        • Observer

          Jimmy Vick,

          ""Nature's God" is a dual concession on behalf of nature's unknowns and unknowns regarding supreme authority."

          Using the word "god" is certainly no concession of any kind to atheists. They don't believe in ANY gods.

          Jefferson did not believe in the God in the Bible, which he considered so nonsensical that he edited it down to about 50 pages.

          September 13, 2013 at 1:00 am |
        • Analizer


          That's exactly the whole point, "Atheists don't believe in any gods'. Then why are their panties twisted in a thing that they don't believe?

          I don't believe in evolution but and though I find it quite awful to think that a guy next door type like me came from a hideous creature. I never skipped it in class when I was still in school. I just think of it as one of my favorite cartoon.

          But them wasting energy and resources in bringing it to court? Absurdity at its best.

          September 13, 2013 at 1:16 am |
        • Observer


          The hidden issue here is more about respect for our fellow Americans. It's the old "All men are created equal" idea. There is ZERO reason why someone who wants to show his allegiance to our nation must include reference to a religion that they don't believe.

          September 13, 2013 at 1:29 am |
        • Bible Clown©

          "I don't believe in evolution " Than why would you object to having your kids recite a catechism about believing in evolution each morning why my kids are forced to recite one to your god? Seems fair. Why are you being so strident and pushing your silly beliefs on us?

          September 13, 2013 at 9:55 am |
    • Bible Clown©

      All it takes is ten "Report Abuses" to get rid of you. One down.

      September 13, 2013 at 8:49 am |
  6. bostontola

    Please improve the blog by informing the user where bad letter segments are.

    September 12, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • Sara

      I think that might defeat the purpose of making it too inconvenient for people who want to just spew curses to post. What they could do, though, is program a list of common exceptions like Ja panese, docu ment, consti tution etc.

      September 12, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      Try this: Google "CLBUTTIC" and you may see why you are being buttbuttinated.

      September 12, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
      • Sea Otter (Leader of Allied Atheist Allegiance)


        September 12, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
      • Akira

        This is hilarious. And we think we have it bad here...
        Poor JFK was buttbuttinated.

        September 12, 2013 at 6:15 pm |
      • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV


        The old Scunthorpe problem:

        Hello, I'm from Scunthorpe*.
        Oh, well I'm from Penistone**.
        Perhaps we should get together then?
        Just don't tell me you're an Arsenal*** fan.

        * Lincolnshire
        ** Yorkshire
        *** A premier league soccer team.

        September 12, 2013 at 6:29 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          And stay well away from Clitheroe (Lancashire).

          Gotta love the English place names.

          September 12, 2013 at 6:31 pm |
  7. Dyslexic doG

    Jesus Christ was just David Koresh 2000 years earlier. A sociopathic conman with a good story and lots of charisma. All this foolishness, without a shred of proof, has sprung up from there.

    utter, mind numbing nonsense.

    September 12, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • EnjaySea

      Others who have run the same con: Muhammed, Jim Jones, Sun Myung Moon, Moses, Joseph Smith, Abraham.

      The list goes on. Anyone who claims to have spoken to god, and gets a groups of gullibots to believe him, has full control of that group of people, and their money, and their women from that moment forward.

      September 12, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
      • karie

        What did he say that made people feel important?


        Us 123 them 0

        September 13, 2013 at 12:49 am |
    • Bible Clown©

      Except that He used that influence to tell people they mattered, and that they were important and not just subjects of a king or members of a tribe. Like it or not, our modern world is based on His views. He could have done a lot worse, and the only way He could have done better is to be actually divine and still be around to stop Crusades and massacres.

      September 12, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
      • EnjaySea

        Yeah, he gave us "His" views, such as reject your wife, your parents, your children and follow me. Give up all your belongings or you'll go to Hell. If a fig tree is out of season, kill the son of a bitch. If you don't believe in God we're going to barbeque you for eternity. That sort of stuff.

        Then he also talked about some pretty basic stuff, like love one another, accept everyone, etc, etc. Big deal! Who couldn't have come up with that obvious drivel?

        As for Mary M. ... dude, I'm gonna assume they were doing it, okay? You can come to your own conclusions.

        I think his

        September 12, 2013 at 6:59 pm |
        • EnjaySea

          I don't know what the "I think his" line was going to turn into. Make up your own ending.

          September 12, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
        • Bible Clown©

          " Who couldn't have come up with that obvious drivel? " Pretty much everybody. Most religion back then was straight-up Old Testament I am He who thunders in the mountains, worship me or I will make your goats barren stuff. It was all about the group and about obeying the Cosmic Overlord. Jesus was the one who said "Look here, if there's a god who made us, then He must love us. I know myself as a good person, worthy of salvation, and if you follow and become like me, you'll be saved even if you aren't one of the Ten Tribes."
          Frankly, I don't think there's a god to save anyone, but the idea of making yourself worthy to approach such a holy objective is what brought us all here across the huge round world to argue this. Christianity finds value not in subjection to rules, but in the improvement of one's self. I don't see any god out there to approach, but I've fought hard to be a better person, to hold my temper and as Marley said, let my spirit walk abroad among my fellows.

          September 13, 2013 at 10:08 am |
      • barry

        btw, which Mediterranean mythical god?

        September 12, 2013 at 8:31 pm |
        • EnjaySea

          Since "under god" was imposed on my children by Christians, I'm going to stick my neck out and guess it was Yahweh, the god of genocide.

          September 12, 2013 at 9:14 pm |
        • cherry

          Since "under god" was imposed on my children by Christians, I'm going to stick my neck out and guess it was Yahweh, the god of genocide."

          o my. i am so sorry to hear that. i am very glad i don't live in a country like that. how can you stand it?

          September 13, 2013 at 12:05 am |
        • karie

          O, envy me, I feel just terrible for you. It is breaking my heart

          September 13, 2013 at 12:47 am |
        • Bible Clown©

          barry, karie, harry, mary – get a life. Rent one if you have to, but get one.

          September 13, 2013 at 10:10 am |
      • Dyslexic doG

        of course a con-man would tell people they mattered, and that they were important and not just subjects of a king or members of a tribe. That's pretty basic stuff. tell them that and then you get them believing all the other fairy tales and then you make them fear you. cult management 101

        September 12, 2013 at 9:41 pm |
      • karie

        Yes, bozo, what did he tell people to make them feel important? U moron

        September 13, 2013 at 3:02 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care


      Shoot me an email at justjeff44 at gmail dot com.

      September 12, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        HB, as much as I'd like to I'll have to err on the side of caution and not.

        know though, that I sure do admire your work here.

        September 12, 2013 at 9:43 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Sun Myung Moon, Emanuel Swedenborg, Baha u llah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, David Koresh, Hailie Selassie, John Thom, Arnold Potter, William Davies, George roux, Ernest Norman, Krishna Venta, Ahn Sahng-Hong, Jim Jones, Mashall Applewhite, Hulon Mitchell, Wayne Bent, Ariffin Mohammed, Mitsuo Matayoshi, Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda, Inri Cristo, Thomas Provenzano, David Icke, Shoko Asahara, Hogan Fukinaga, Marina Tsvigun, Sergei Troop ....

      September 12, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
      • Bible Clown©

        These jag offs make us angry because of the example Jesus set. The obvious failure of Islam IMHO is that too many of Allah's commandments are obviously stuff some old geezer made up, like which hand to wipe with and women have to bathe after doing it. Jesus didn't try to set Himself up for life, and He doesn't seem to have been bonking Mary M. either. Why can't these people who claim to follow Him follow his god dam example as well? People are not toys, they shouldn't be led around with lies by FOX, MSNBC, or the OT. They deserve better.

        September 12, 2013 at 4:45 pm |
        • karie

          Yo bozo, what example did Jesus set? Fill in all those details for us. Feel free to take your time. Be exhaustive. Go right ahead.

          Ladies and gentlemen, you do realize of course that no athie is ever gonna fill in the blanks. She'd be admitting that indeed we have a credible record of him. Lol

          I can't stand lying snakes, and I tire of not being challenged in a debate with primates unable to reason.

          September 13, 2013 at 2:56 am |
        • karie

          Yea, them jag offs is really pathetic. Have you condemned ms. Stone yet?

          September 13, 2013 at 2:59 am |
        • Bible Clown©

          "Yo bozo, what example did Jesus set?" How about let he among you who is without sin throw the first stone? Meditate on that parable for a time, grasshopper, and see if you notice anything. Would Jesus call names and throw insults the way you do, and do you suppose He's up there facepalming right now?
          Whoever Yeshua bin Yusuf really was, the words He spoke started a movement that is still powerful and influential to this day. You want to be admired? Live up to the standard He set you. But you won't, because it's too hard.

          September 13, 2013 at 10:15 am |
  8. bostontola

    The US is a very safe place to practice your religion. This safety comes from the Const.itution/Bill of Rights. It was designed to enable people to pursue their beliefs as long as they don't infringe on other people's rights defined in those docu.ments. As the strong majority, many Christians don't respect the rights of others to pursue their beliefs or the lack thereof. They think the majority should rule, even though those same founding doc.uments define a system that protects the minority from the tyranny of the majority. They view any encroachment on their traditions as an attack rather than others with rights trying to coexist.

    This structure was intentional. The founding fathers believed that power corrupts, and therefore power must be limited and distributed via the rules in those doc.uments. Unfortunately, religions are not founded on that basis. They concentrate power much like the old feudal systems. That is why there are so many scandals that can last for so long. The US Govt has scandals that are quickly discovered and dealt with, religions not so much.

    Bottom line, people who think atheists should leave if they don't like god in traditional pledges and songs, don't understand the genius of the US system and worse, are lap dogs to the religious power players that don't want to share power. Very UnAmerican.

    September 12, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG


      September 12, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • Yep

      Very thoughtful response. Thank you.

      – A Christian

      September 12, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • Sara

      People were stupid when theconsti tution was written, are stupid now, and will continue to be stupid into the foreseeable future. I likewise agree that we have some laws that are useful in protecting us from our own stupidity.

      September 12, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
      • Terao

        Matataku.( Exactly) Sara-san.

        Domo arigato gozaimasu.

        September 12, 2013 at 9:13 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      One of the reasons radical Muslims dislike us is that although their religion is against civil government and prefers the Sharia system, once they live here for a while and see how well Islam functions within a civil government, they say the same thing: "Genius."

      September 12, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
  9. Just the Facts Ma'am...

    I find it funny when Christians attempt to defend the DNA evidence we now have that proves humanity is far older than their Genesis myth can account for as well as proving we did not descend from a single pair of humans. It's like watching O.J. Simpson try on the bloody glove. "What? Hmm, I don't think this DNA evidence is all wrong, but how do we know for sure it's 100% right, right? I mean, isn't there a chance the DNA is wrong? And if the DNA don't fit, we must a-quit thinking rationally and go back to believing an invisible sky fairy did it...!!"

    September 12, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      We should publicize the fact that they are using mailer-daemons to process these posts, and then they'd be afraid to use the internet.

      September 13, 2013 at 10:18 am |
  10. The Person

    Seems to me there is way more pressing issue in the world. Does that in the pledge really matter. World is going to Hell in a hand basket. Just a thought.

    September 12, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
    • Just the Facts Ma'am...

      Well we had some pretty important stuff going on in 1954 if you recall, but they still found time to add that to congresses to do list and used the red scare to peer pressure and extort Americans into accepting it. Why can't we find the time to correct this obvious affront to our constltution?

      September 12, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
      • Bible Clown©

        "Why can't we find the time to correct this obvious affront to our constltution?" McCarthy is a hero to the Tea Party. He saved us from the Red Menace with his laundry list.

        September 12, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • EnjaySea

      Well yes, if you think it's perfectly okay to indoctrinate children into humping the flag while affirming the existence of the mythical god of the Mediterranean every morning at 8am, then of course you think it's not important to make a change.

      Some of us find it repulsive, and so it's bit higher on our list of things we'd like to see addressed.

      September 12, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
      • karie

        What a complete moron

        September 13, 2013 at 12:40 am |
      • karie

        So, point being, agreed, you are agreeing that ms. Stone is a repulsive asp

        September 13, 2013 at 12:43 am |
      • karie

        So, point being, agreed, you are agreeing that ms. Stone is a repulsive asp. So, you are ready to denounce that vile nasty weed patch 12 gauge. So, point being, go right ahead

        September 13, 2013 at 12:45 am |
  11. Britta

    Does anybody else think the kids in the picture look kind of creepy? All hands on heart like a dictatorial society would want? Perhaps we should return to the "Heil" known back then as the patriotic "hail" (Bellamy Salute). Just look up the pictures online for pre-WWII photos.

    September 12, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
  12. SteveH

    Do these people even listen to what they are saying? The pledge was introduced by a minister and never intended for God to be a part of the pledge. As for not having to say it, just as stated we are no less a citizen or patriot of this country just because we don't believe in your religion or God. The lady needs to rethink what she even knows about our country! The reason we Atheists care so much about our country, so that it will not follow the paths of other theocratic countries forcing state run religion upon its people. Whose form of religion would it be? I suggest that everyone be forced to go to Catholic church and worship in accordance to Catholic beliefs and tenants. Catholicism will be the Untied States National Religion. Does that strike a cord with you people? We are "FREE" to be "FREE" of another person forcing their religious belief's upon us. If you people can't get that then YOU move because this country was founded upon principles other than what you believe, it's called freedom from your religion. Learn some history before you run off at you ass, I mean mouth!

    September 12, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • karie

      You were told to change your writing style and your arguments, observer. Do you even hear what you are being told? LOL
      Point being, so, agreed, he is lord and god of all, sorry, my love

      September 12, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
      • .

        You were told to go to hell. And yet, here you are.
        Anyone who writes in a coherent manner must be the same person, according to you. You silly bitch, your paranoia is taking over. Seek help for your cognitive dissonance.
        Here are some of the names you yourself post under, while accusing others of multiple handles. You are a creepy hypocrite and a one-trick pony. Seek help for your mental illness. I'm not even going to blame Christianity on this one, because even Christianity won't take you.

        yudhisthira mahabharata jr

        September 12, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
        • Bible Clown©

          The constant appeals to the Observer really do sound paranoid.

          September 12, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
      • Observer


        "You were told to change your writing style and your arguments, observer. Do you even hear what you are being told? LOL"

        Which Observer are you babbling about? It's not me if you are DIMWITTED enough to claim that.

        September 12, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
        • Akira

          This person thinks that you are everyone on here, with the exception of hizzer, I guess.
          To see how depraved it is, look at the Weiner blog, where it laughed and jeered at a 9/11/01 widow. There's no bottom to the level of hizzer cruelty.

          September 12, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
        • truthprevails1

          It takes a very small minded person to treat another in the manner he/she did to that widow. People like that disgust me in the real world. Although it makes you wonder what purpose this person thinks they are achieving by showing up on an anonymous blog sounding like they're as great of a danger to society as the ones who forced those planes to go down.

          September 12, 2013 at 7:48 pm |
        • Akira

          I felt so bad for that widow. It was a disgusting display of cruelty to her. I hope she can ignore it. She posted again, btw.

          September 12, 2013 at 8:10 pm |
        • Bible Clown©

          People who threaten, sneer, and drop dark hints about "The Guns of August!" on message boards ought to realize that the FBI has interns looking for disturbed, dangerous people every day. The ones who say "Someday you'll wish you'd paid more attention to me, ha ha ha" are getting more attention than they suspect.

          September 13, 2013 at 10:23 am |
    • banana breath

      'under god' can mean anything. Since Atheists see humanity as basically god, or their own gods, just think of yourself when you read the phrase. BTW, the only religion that is forced down anyone's throat is the state funded religion of evolution, the precursor to and escape route for anyone who doesn't want to believe in God. Once again Atheists and liberals who want to define their own morality think it's ok for them, but not for anyone else.

      September 12, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
      • Sea Otter (Leader of Allied Atheist Allegiance)

        "state funded religion of evolution" LOL... were you born that stupid or have you had to practice a lot?

        September 12, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
        • lol?? Pithiest, YES!!

          Evolution just got twice as improbable. They're sayin' 2 groups happened to mutate at the same rate and found each other attractive.

          September 12, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
        • Sea Otter (Leader of Allied Atheist Allegiance)

          I don't like responding to you, or to that other multi-handled retard (that I have always suspected are all the same person anyway), but does being a dumbass on these blogs get you off or something?

          September 12, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          lol, What got more improbable was a genetic "Adam and Eve". Evolution is the best explanation for the known facts, whereas creationism offers no fact-based explanation.

          September 12, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
        • Bible Clown©

          I think this guy's been drinking his own pith too long.

          September 13, 2013 at 10:24 am |
      • ME II

        "Since Atheists see humanity as basically god"


        "the state funded religion of evolution, "

        Evolution and its modern scientific Theory is a well substantiated explanation for how life developed on this planet once life originally began.

        September 12, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
        • lol?? Pithiest, YES!!

          Yup, 25 century old theory. How much patience do you expect the race to have??

          September 12, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
        • ME II


          1) A valid theory should stand the test of time, so age should not matter, results should.

          2) Not sure where you got 25 centuries old, but the modern synthesis came about in the 1930s and 40s:
          "The synthesis, produced between 1936 and 1947, reflects the consensus about how evolution proceeds.[1]" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_evolutionary_synthesis )

          September 12, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
      • doobzz

        "'under god' can mean anything"

        But it's not "under god", it's "under God". I wish that Christians would stop pretending that they don't mean the Christian god. Instead, they lie and say things like "since atheists see humanity as basically god, or their own gods" as if it is a fact, when it is only their opinion.

        September 12, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
        • Bible Clown©

          " Since Atheists see humanity as basically god, or their own gods" I can't see any way that the person who wrote that is not evil. One of the creepiest and nastiest things I've seen in a while. A psychotic insistence on their own interpretation of reality usually means schizophrenia, but I think he knows it's a lie and is just giggling and fapping.

          September 12, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
      • Sara

        That's your interpretation of what atheists think. Atheists just don't believe in gods. Many think humanity is trivial in the global scheme. Others, like Christians, think humans central. Only a tiny minority of atheists would ever think the word"god" adequately summed up their feelings. Saying "under God" can mean anything is like saying "under Communism" could mean anything. Many in China now simply define communism as that which promotes the greater good. Does that mean we should add it to our Pledge?

        People who like "under God" in the pledge or in the scouts or AA or whatever need to stop lying to themselves about their motives. If you want everyone to believe like you and be like you, just admit it. But stop pretending everyone already is. If someone doesn't have a place for the term god, they likely don't have a concept to go with it. And writing out government ideologies or laws with the idea that everyone can just define the words any way they want is just plain silly.

        September 12, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
        • Ron Kappes

          Well said Sara. I like your comment.

          September 13, 2013 at 10:41 am |
      • Just the Facts Ma'am...

        "Since Atheists see humanity as basically god, or their own gods, just think of yourself when you read the phrase." lol

        Every time a Christian opens their mouth they show themselves for the utter morons they are. There are no atheists who see humanity as "a divine holy supernatural invisible magical creator being that we get to telepathically communicate with" and none think of themselves as such either. The straw man you built is nothing more than a tiny string voodoo doll covered in vasaline that you enjoy hu m ping each night before you fall asleep dreaming about how special you are and how everyone who went out and actully got an education will burn for their smarty pants off in heII so you don't feel so bad about wallowing in your own stagnant ignorance. Keep dreaming while the rest of us go on about the actual job of learning, studying and exploring the real universe.

        September 12, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
      • Brother Maynard

        "the state funded religion of evolution"
        Isn't that a spin-off from the "State funded Religion of Gravity"?
        Which BTW has killed more people than any other religion by pulling bombs down to Earth.

        September 12, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Obeying the law of gravity is a choice.
          A nice man in a housecoat taught me that the secret to flying is to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

          September 12, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
        • Bible Clown©

          Doc, don't forget your towel.

          September 12, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
        • Towelie

          Don't forget to bring a towel...

          September 12, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
      • Bible Clown©

        " Since Atheists see humanity as basically god, or their own gods" That is blindingly stupid and an obvious lie. So Christian of you to bear that false witness for Jesus.

        September 12, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • Sara

      I don't think they really care that they are talking nonsense. The drive to maintain one's sense of self is extremely strong, and most people are willing to limit freedom to avoid being faced with anything that might remotely challenge their sense of identi ty and place in the world.

      September 12, 2013 at 12:58 pm |
      • Thinker...

        I'm not sure I would take it that far. I would say most people don't really think about the implications of things. Someone proposes something that they don't have a problem with so they figure no one would have a problem with it. It just isn't that important to them. If you try to call them on the problems caused, they get defensive because they don't want to be seen as wrong. There are of course the loud groups that always claim their way or no way.

        September 12, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
        • Sara

          I agree with that on a lot of topics, and often see change when people really think about something. My experience on the god and society issue has been a bit different though. Most who support the Under God stuff seem pretty entrenched in the idea and quite threatened by the change. This is, of course, just my unscientific personal survey.

          September 12, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Dippy

      Steve, it's "chord," not "cord." And it's "beliefs," not "belief's." Other than that, what you say is totally true.

      September 12, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
  13. Thinker...

    I am still trying to see how there is an argument to be had here. Is declaring this country to be 'under god' preferential treatment for some religions over others (or none)?

    If yes, then it is unconsti tutional.
    If no, then there is no legal standing for a challenge.

    Now ana lyse.
    Under God implies the existance of a singular god, thus it supports monotheism against polytheism.
    Under God implies the existance of a god thus supporting theism against atheism.

    The statement 'under god' therefore supports monotheism to the exclusion of polytheistic faiths and athiesm. That falls under the establishment clause. That would make the LAW that adds 'under god' to the pledge unconsit tutional.

    Our government is not allowed to support some religions to the exclusion of others. It is not a matter of if you don't like it don't say it, it is a matter of making the government abide by the rules. I would think this would be an easy one for small government types (conservatives) and inclusionist types (liberals) to find some common ground and reign in our government.

    September 12, 2013 at 12:06 pm |
    • Sara

      I think a person would have to be almost unbelievably dimwitted not to get it. I generally find that folks with this position don't really support separation of church and state.

      September 12, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
      • Akira

        And there you nalied it, Sara. There are many unbelievably dim-witted people out there.
        I love this quote:

        “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.”
        ― Sinclair Lewis

        September 12, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
        • Sara

          When I was young I remember watching a docu mentary in England about authoritatprian states. They gave two examples of how they brainwashed kids in school with "pledges": the US and the USSR. Insti tuting a Pledge is, of course, again being considered in the UK now...itwill beinteresting to see what happens.

          September 12, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
      • Random Atheist

        Atheist view on separation of Church and State – Make sure the government DOES NOT endorse or support ANY religion.

        Christian view on separation of Church and State – Make sure the government ONLY endorses Christianity and all its beliefs.

        September 12, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
        • mannitt

          Actually having talked to a pastor recently he reminded me of something I forgot that most fundamental Christians believe about separation of church and state. They think it means the government can't tell the church what to do, but the church can have all the influence in the government. That is such a "have your cake" mentality.

          September 12, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
        • Random Atheist

          I like this religious viewpoint, "Under God" is just a traditional saying and does not have anything to do with religion, but ... if you take it out of the pledge, you are violating my religious freedom

          September 12, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
        • Sara

          'I like this religious viewpoint, "Under God" is just a traditional saying and does not have anything to do with religion, but ... if you take it out of the pledge, you are violating my religious freedom'

          LOL, yeah...but they won't ever get it.

          September 12, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
        • Concrete

          Cake or death?

          September 12, 2013 at 11:54 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      I swear on a JRRT that they think if you don't pray to Him, God becomes weak. You know how they are always sacrificing goats to Him in the Bible? He must be starving all the time. Probably has a high metabolism. Clap your hands if you believe, children!! Save Tinker Bell!

      September 12, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • Random Atheist

      Well said.

      September 12, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
  14. Just the Facts Ma'am...

    Could you imagine 80% of America being total D & D nerds who voted at every election based on what their in game wizard would want them to do? Guess what? No need to imagine it, it's already taking place with the largest group of fantasy role players living in America casting their ballots based on what a 2000 year old magical zombie carpenter would want them to.

    September 12, 2013 at 11:49 am |
    • Sara

      I very much agree the influence is significant and often dangerous. Fortunately, however, I suspect only about half of that 80% are much influenced in votes by their religion. Even that number, though, is enough to worryabout.

      September 12, 2013 at 11:53 am |
  15. Sara

    It always amazes me how readily people exposes their ignorance of international immigration policies when they talk about how people can just move away or don't have to live here. Unless you are under 35, healthy, have a spotless past and are in a few select professional fields you likely don't have a hope in hell of permanent migration to another country. People like this seem to think the nations of the world are just waiting for unahappy US citizens to roll up on their shores. I guanantee you a 60 year old divorce attorney, waitress, counselor or public servant isn't going to be welcomed anywhere unless they have a $2 million + business investment waiting. Ditto for anyone, even young, with diabetes, a history of cancer or a minor criminal conviction...of which they may even beinnocent. Heck, 90+% of the US wouldn't quaify for PR in most countries. I could only wish people stupid enough not to get this actually did have a place to move.

    September 12, 2013 at 11:48 am |
    • Sea Otter (Leader of Allied Atheist Allegiance)

      "I could only wish people stupid enough not to get this actually did have a place to move." They already live in the South... How much more do you want them to suffer?

      September 12, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
      • Bible Clown©

        Enough about the South, dick head. I've been to the North and it sux too. Grow the fak up.

        September 12, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
        • Sea Otter (Leader of Allied Atheist Allegiance)

          "Grow the fak up" Why? That doesn't sound like much fun. I should crush your skull like a clam on my tummy!

          September 12, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
        • Bible Clown©

          I'll give you a bop from the Clown Hammer©. Don't worry, it only beeps.

          September 12, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • banana breath

      I wish it was that easy. I'd leave. Mainly because I know what's coming our way. The humanists are in for quite the shocker. They might just lose their faith in hew-mans.

      September 12, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
      • Sea Otter (Leader of Allied Atheist Allegiance)

        Do you go back and read what you type? Do you ever wonder to yourself, "my, I sound pretty crazy"...

        September 12, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
        • Bible Clown©

          I got it! He's the Robot Monster from that awful movie. "To live like the Hew-mans."

          September 12, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          I'm pretty sure he fancies himself one of the new Hew-brews...

          September 12, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
  16. lol?? Pithiest, YES!!

    lol?? Pithiest, YES!!
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    Socies think they know all about slavery. Now run along and service yer bank card. That special son of the Beast gets special treatment. Some bullies are just too big to fail.

    September 12, 2013 at 8:50 am | Report abuse | Reply
    lol?? Pithiest, YES!!
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    Why would the Masters want to take a pledge TO the gubmint?? How 'bout the Public Servants make a pledge to the Masters?? Wouldn't that be a change and abhorrent to da commies??.

    September 12, 2013 at 10:55 am |
  17. Sea Otter (Leader of Allied Atheist Allegiance)

    Butters [singing to himself at the urinal]: Hey there Mr. Wiener, what do you know. Do you have to tinkle, tinkle? Yes, I do think so.

    September 12, 2013 at 10:12 am |
  18. simivalley2009

    Funny, the guy claims Perino isnt for equality because UNDER GOD is there. But if it gets removed, how ISNT the shoe on the other foot? And then Perino could file a lawsuit claiming that it should be there for equality.

    I like Christmas, but dont file a lawsuit because someone is telling me about Hanukkah. People need to get a life and S.T.F.U.

    There are bigger problems that if everyone were to work together, could get fixed, like POVERTY, HOMELESSNESS, UNEMPLOYMENT... etc etc etc

    September 12, 2013 at 10:00 am |
    • tallulah13

      'Under god' was added as a gesture against the soviets during the cold war. Now it is a gesture of division, alienating non-christian Americans. All that is being asked is that the pledge return to its original form so it can once again be a promise of unity and inclusion for and from all Americans. To many of us, this country is not "under" your god, but indeed stands above petty divisions like religion.

      And stop trying to hide the issue behind other issues. People who aren't Fox news are capable of paying attention to more than one topic at a time.

      September 12, 2013 at 10:17 am |
      • karie

        Taliban, where is your renunciation of stone?

        Beat it u lying hypocrite

        September 12, 2013 at 11:03 am |
        • Thinker...

          Renunciation of stone? What is that supposed to mean.

          September 12, 2013 at 11:11 am |
        • lol?? Pithiest, YES!!

          sam stone ain't gonna like it.

          September 12, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • Lisa

      It's been clear that many Christians would rather fight gay marriage than poverty, homelessness, and unemployment. Of all the big issues that we face, that's the one that they choose to put their resources into. Amazing!

      This, however, should be as simple a fix as changing all the male gender wording to be gender neutral. Sorry, did I say that was a "simple fix"? They use to tell feminists to "stop complaining" and leave the country too.

      September 12, 2013 at 10:23 am |
      • JimK57

        Remember there are athiests who are pro-life and against gay marriage.

        September 12, 2013 at 11:01 am |
        • Sea Otter (Leader of Allied Atheist Allegiance)

          That would be an interesting poll...

          September 12, 2013 at 11:10 am |
        • doobzz

          Everyone is pro life. Some are anti choice for women's health and medical decisions.

          September 12, 2013 at 11:55 am |
        • truthprevails1

          The reason an Atheist might use for opposing gays would not be equivalent to that of the christian.

          September 12, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • JimK57

      I agree. I can't imagine going through life so sensitive.

      September 12, 2013 at 11:03 am |
      • Ted

        Nope. That's a false equivocation.

        September 12, 2013 at 11:06 am |
    • Just the Facts Ma'am...

      "if it gets removed, how ISNT the shoe on the other foot?"

      Maybe we should ask Francis Bellamy... you know, the guy who wrote the pledge without any mention of "under God" way back in 1892...

      September 12, 2013 at 11:34 am |
    • Sara

      You really can't see the difference between telling a kid about different religions and asking them to recite allegiance to one of them as the "normal" and patriotic belief of society. Just wow. You folks amaze me.

      September 12, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
  19. Charles

    Who's the dimwit at the end of the video saying we're trying to "inflict" our beliefs upon people?

    September 12, 2013 at 9:58 am |
  20. Colin

    I wonder how long it will be before future generations look back and marvel at how a country as advanced as the USA still felt the need to supplicate itself to a non-existent Bronze Age Jewish sky-fairy.

    September 12, 2013 at 9:07 am |
    • Vic

      As a matter of fact, that's part of the "American Exceptionalism" that many don't know about or take for granted. That's were the blessing is coming from. That's one of the prodigies that set the United States apart from the rest. The United States superseded the world in science, technology, business, economy, arm forces, etc., yet chose to praise God whereas other nations dismissed God since the "Industrial Revolution."

      September 12, 2013 at 10:00 am |
      • Vic

        "...That's where the blessing is coming from..."

        September 12, 2013 at 10:07 am |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          lol, you believe God is granting America some extra exceptionalism? I bet you also thought Katrina was caused by God punishing them for having a gay parade... you are the primary source of what is wrong in America, fantasy role players believing their wizard has a hand in everything and thus take no responsibility.

          September 12, 2013 at 11:42 am |
      • Ken

        We've been on the decline ever since "under God" was added to the Pledge. Coincidence?

        Don't forget also that Rome really slid under once it became Christian. It was at it's peak under the traditional, national pantheon of gods. Same for all the world's Empires before them. The Egyptians were "exceptional" in their time, but did that make their gods more real than most now think they were?

        September 12, 2013 at 10:29 am |
        • Vic

          Do you know about President's Harry Truman's prayer and the United States winning WWII "FOR THE WORLD?"

          Also, does winning the "Cold War," during and for which "Under God" was added to the "Pledge Of Allegiance," count as a decline?!

          September 12, 2013 at 11:19 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Since WWII, the United States has been engaging in the politics of Empire building.
          The collapse of the Soviet Union only served to encourage this hubris.
          Read "Rebuilding America's Defenses" – a plan for a global "pax Americana" penned by a thinktank known as the Project for a New American Century.

          September 12, 2013 at 11:23 am |
        • doobzz

          "Also, does winning the "Cold War," during and for which "Under God" was added to the "Pledge Of Allegiance," count as a decline?!"

          Do you really think that one caused the other? LOL!

          September 12, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
        • Vic

          The United States has NEVER had "Empire Building" aspirations! The United States has always had "Nation Building" aspirations! To the contrary, Japan and Germany had "Empire Building" aspirations, for examples from the 20th century.

          September 12, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Never had Empire building aspirations?
          Please, please do read the PNAC paper I mentioned.
          The PNAC's stated goal is "to promote American global leadership" becuase "American leadership is both good for America and good for the world"

          The PNAC's core missions included:
          "fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars" and to "perform the “constabulary” duties associated with shaping the security environment in critical regions" (critical meaning the MIddle East, primarily).

          This was not a fringe group.
          Many of the authors and signatories were high ranking politicians that held key position in the Bush administration, like Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, John Bolton, and a host of others.

          September 12, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Since WWII, Ameirca has "intervened" in China, Italy, Greece, the Philippines, South Korea, Albania, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Guatemala, Indonesia, Vietnam, Guyana, Cambodia, Zaire, Brazil, the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Chile, East Timor, Nicaragua, Grenada, Panama, Libya, El Salvador, and Haiti.
          They arm and train insurgents, overthrow governments (many of which are democratically elected), assassinate political leaders, install puppet regimes, strip natrual resources, privatize national resources and sell them off to US corporations, etc. ad nauseum.
          All of this in the name of spreading the "pax Americana".

          September 12, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
      • Roger that

        yet chose to praise God

        Yes you are fortunate God sent the atheists to improve your quality of life.

        September 12, 2013 at 10:31 am |
      • lol?? Pithiest, YES!!

        vic, from wiki,

        "Although the concept of American exceptionalism dates to the 1830s the term was first used in the 1920s. The phrase "American exceptionalism" originates from the American Communist Party."

        September 12, 2013 at 10:36 am |
        • Bible Clown©

          You couldn't pour pith out of a boot if the instructions were printed on the heel.

          September 12, 2013 at 11:19 am |
      • ME II

        Yet another religious right usurpation. American Exceptionalism, originally was due to the nature of its birth, i.e. from revolution, and then nature of its construction and composition, i.e. republicanism, equality under the law, both individualism and populism, limited government, etc.

        It was not "exceptional" because of God or faith in God. Just like the pledge God was added later.

        September 12, 2013 at 10:44 am |
        • lol?? Pithiest, YES!!

          That wasn't usurpation, writing books about being hated by Stalin, just too little, too late.

          September 12, 2013 at 11:08 am |
        • Vic

          Where do you think the ideology that is based on "liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, republicanism, populism, etc.," stem from? Faith/Belief in God!

          Do "Natural Law, Nature's God and Unalienable Rights," which the "Declaration Of Independence" and the "Constitution" were founded on, ring the bell?

          September 12, 2013 at 11:37 am |
        • mannitt

          You must be either an illiterate (since you are typing here I am going to assume you are not) or not paying attention. Even if the assumption that "..ideology that is based on “liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, republicanism, populism, etc.,” is god based, no matter what religion or deist stance is pure ignorance. Actually it's not even ignorance. It's pure abortion of the ideology. Let's focus on Judeo-Christian based principle. A patriarchal system based on supernatural mandates to conquer and cleanse in the name of god, Then superseded with "Love they neighbor as yourself" but also "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." Matthew 10:37. This is the very opposite of any of the base principle of this country and what you claim to be god and faith based. Also if you did any amount of study on the republic and democratic system that our country is based on. You would learn that most of that ideology is based on ancient Greece. Which is also the foundation which all Western culture has evolved out of. Do these ideas come from nature? Of course not. No sane person would declare such an asinine statement. They come from thousands of years of human thought and reason. Not from a vengeful god who sometimes loves those who worship him blindly.

          September 12, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          "Natural Law, Nature's God " – sounds more like Pantheism than Christianity to me.

          September 12, 2013 at 11:45 am |
        • ME II

          Age of Enlightenment and Reason concepts. e.g. Locke, Rousseau, Montesquieu, etc.

          September 12, 2013 at 11:46 am |
        • ME II

          "Classically, natural law refers to the use of reason to analyze human nature—both social and personal—and deduce binding rules of moral behavior from it" – wiki

          September 12, 2013 at 11:50 am |
        • ME II

          I'm not that familiar with the specifics, but apparently Christians wanted to "incorporate" a pre-existing concept of natural law into Christianity.

          "Some early Church Fathers, especially those in the West, sought to incorporate natural law into Christianity. The most notable among these was Augustine of Hippo, who equated natural law with man's prelapsarian state; as such, a life according to nature was no longer possible and men needed instead to seek salvation through the divine law and grace of Jesus Christ." – wiki

          September 12, 2013 at 11:57 am |
        • Vic

          Technical Note:

          wiki is a general term for a website or set of webpages that online users can create, edit, modify, and/or delete.

          Humbly, you need to specify whose wiki you are referring to. Thank you.

          September 12, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
        • ME II

          Technical Note:
          If a quote is actually a quote googling said quote usually returns the exact reference.


          September 12, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
        • lol?? Pithiest, YES!!

          ME II, wiki is wrong about "Church Fathers", unless of course they are referencing the original gubmint church.
          The body of Christ is born again Israel, the reconfigured clay, which God said hardly anybody would believe. Christians aren't to refer to anybody as Father in a spiritual leader sense.

          September 12, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
        • ME II


          Edit to your heart's content

          September 12, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
        • lol?? Pithiest, YES!!

          Sure ME II, and it would last about as long as my posts do here.

          September 12, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
        • ME II


          ....perhaps for the same reasons, too.

          September 12, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
      • Ted

        Vic, you wouldn't know a "fact" if it bit you.

        September 12, 2013 at 10:59 am |
      • Bible Clown©

        Look up "supersede" and stop using it wrong. Also, God's a myth who makes you pretend the world's flat, so why credit Him for scientific progress? Churches have been against progress from Day One. Ask Galileo.

        September 12, 2013 at 11:17 am |
        • Vic

          I meant it in a good way, meaning "surpassed," no ill intention.

          September 12, 2013 at 11:43 am |
        • Vic

          Also, we believe that science is part of God's creation (its mechanism,) it comes with the territory. And, human error is NOT God's error!

          September 12, 2013 at 11:47 am |
        • Vic

          Thank you for noting "supersede."

          September 12, 2013 at 11:49 am |
    • lol?? Pithiest, YES!!

      lol?? Pithiest, YES!!
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      Who sayz they'll even know what happened, prophet?? Ever heard of the Library of Alexandria??

      September 12, 2013 at 10:56 am |
      • Bible Clown©

        Go pith yourself.

        September 12, 2013 at 11:20 am |
    • Just the Facts Ma'am...

      The answer to the question is "Not long now". The snowball of public opinion is already rolling and picking up momentum.

      September 12, 2013 at 11:52 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.