September 15th, 2013
02:17 PM ET
Rick Warren returns to the spotlight
Programming note: Rick and Kay Warren sit down exclusively with CNN’s Piers Morgan to talk about the death of their son and their new mission to raise awareness about mental illness.
By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
(CNN) - Megachurch pastor and author Rick Warren is slowly returning to the spotlight, five months after his youngest son committed suicide.
He has shared spiritual insights on social media, returned to the pulpit to preach about overcoming obstacles and taken his purpose-driven message to Rwanda, a nation still reeling from a bloody genocide.
But Warren, the bestselling author of "The Purpose Driven Life" and one of the most famous pastors in the United States, hasn't yet spoken to the media about his son's death.
That changed when Warren and his wife Kay sat for an extended interview with CNN’s Piers Morgan.
In a brief clip released on Monday, Morgan and Warren discussed gun violence, including Monday's shooting at the Navy Yard in Washington.
MORE ON CNN: "The first thing I did was get down on my knees and pray for those families"
Rick and Kay Warren have been outspoken about the plague of gun violence in the United States, especially since their son, Matthew, took his own life in April after what the family call a lifelong struggle with mental illness.
“In spite of America’s best doctors, meds, counselors, and prayers for healing, the torture of mental illness never subsided,” Warren wrote to staffers at Saddleback Church, his megachurch in Orange County, California.
Then Warren, one of the country's most visible spiritual leaders, disappeared from public view. But not quite.
Not even grief could silence Warren, a gregarious man with an apparent thirst for sharing his spiritual insights.
Away from his pulpit, the preacher voiced his anguish and his insights in a stream of Twitter messages and Facebook posts.
Days after his son’s suicide, for example, Warren tweeted this message:
On June 16, Father's Day, Warren tweeted this:
Other days, the pastor wrote about the pain of his loss.
In September, the purpose-drive pastor hinted at a new mission:
Even though Warren has shared his thoughts on Twitter on Facebook, he hasn't answered the questions on many people's minds - questions that may be asked on Monday night:
How has Matthew's death changed Warren's faith? Does he hold God responsible?
Resuming his pastoral duties at Saddleback in late July, Warren began a sermon series titled “Getting through what you’re going through,” that hinted at his family’s struggles and outlined their new mission.
“We intend to spend the rest of our lives comforting others with the same comfort we have been given from God, through your prayers,” Warren told the large crowds who came to see him preach.
He also credited his other children, Amy and Joshua, with helping his family through its darkest days.
“When all this happened, Amy looked at me and said, ‘Dad, Satan picked the wrong family to pick on. He’s going to lose so badly because of the platform God has given to our family.’ ”
The Warren family set up a fund in Matthew's honor to raise awareness about mental illness.
Last week Warren wrapped up a trip to Rwanda, a country he has focused on since 2005, when its government invited the pastor to help Rwandans recover from its vicious genocide in 1994, which claimed as many as 1,000,000 lives.
This weekend Warren was back at Saddleback, preaching a sermon titled, "Never Waste Your Pain."
About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
Ultimately, Warren will use his son's death to further his own greed. As long as people write out those checks, it's all good, ain't it Rick?
again, your evidence for the man being greedy is what, exactly?
People will try to explain it away but there is little matter of Matthew 19 and the words of the man that Warren professes to love – the man and the words.
I don't know much about this guy but you can bet that he, like the Swaggerts and the Bakers and the Rick Perrys and the will not do as Jesus clearly says to the rich man who asks how to get into heaven:
"go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Selling snake-oil. He may tithe higher than "expected" but he lives the wealthy life originally funded on tax-free earnings.
He really should lose some weight. He doesn't look healthy.
Perhaps he is a drunk. Who knows. He looks bloated.
you should be more tolerant
People posting here sound really cruel. Man created divisive, exclusionary religion for his own purpose, not God. Pastor Warren (I believe) promotes God's love for all people, and provides a forum of encouragement for those who feel hopeless. People who are hating do so because of a lack of meaningful love in their lives. I pray that the real love you need will befall you.
You are incorrect. There is much love in my life. I am an atheist though. What a thing.
If you've got it (love), then flaunt it. Even if you had (love), you are selfish for not showing it, therefore, I disagree with you (that you have it).
OK, it is up to you to believe what you wish.
I doubt that anyone here has any problem with preachers comforting the sick or poor or needy or the grieving.
What some people call testifying I call arrogance. People who wear $5,000 suits with $1000 shoes standing on a stage with a mic and telling the world that they know more about god than the average person because they went to school and studied the book or simply because they believe harder than you. That's always the path to truth.
There there are the ministers who cause more grief than comfort. Pedophiles, liars, cheats, thieves. Selecting which lines of scripture are true and need to be public policy while ignoring those that are inconvenient.
I say if god really wanted us to know what the truth about everything was it wouldn't come down to us ancient writings done by secret societies in dead languages, thousands of pages long, edited, translated, added to, argued over and spread by violence or used car salesmen types.
There would not be three major religions and thousands of competing ones and it would not take faith to know it was true.
Man's greatest arrogance is believing one man knows more about god than another. You can know more about religion but not the unknowable.
I'm sure returning to the "spotlight" is so much easier when you have a marketing partner in your corner like CNN. Any other cult leaders you'd like to pimp today?
yes, piers morgan might get out of last place in the ratings for 1 night
Rooms like the one he is standing in, in the photo, are also knows as "theaters". Every seat is valuable. Fill the seats, make the money. This douche is making money off the death of his own son.
Have you tried life in Pastor Warren's shoes? You speak as though an expert as to what his life is about.
You don't have to be a con man to recognize a con man. Rick Warren is running the same con as storefront gypsie fortune tellers; he's just figured out how to do it on a much larger scale.
your evidence? just curious, since you are so good at recognizing con-men, did you vote for Obama?
JIM, There is no evidence of a god so the fact that he makes money using religion is a good sign. He makes a fortune even after the reportedly large tithe. I know he gets a lot in royalties but I doubt he would be in a position to be a top-selling author if he weren't adept at selling snake-oil.
I know what those chairs are for. MONEY.
Some of the people who sit in those chairs do not have the financial means for their ills, and they seek much more. Why don't you try sitting in one of them...and leave your wallet at home?
I CAN'T sit in one of those chairs. Every time I walk in a church the roof collapses.
I praise God that you haven't been injured as a result of this.
Perhaps you should shower more or something.
It is customary on the Belief Blog to engage other bloggers in conversation. Not just post and run like most of you.
Note to drive by atheists: See above. Also, if possible please stay on topic. If you are going to make assertions, then have the cojones to to back it up. That's all carry on.
D, please provide ONE example of a "drive by atheist".
I would want to see some stats on that. I think a good portion of commenters are one or just a few times. Also, I think CNN intends the space for all readers to express themselves. A lot of folks would like to weigh in but don't have time or inclination to debate. I think one time posts are quite reasonable.
Sara, I disagree. They are simply unable to match up with someone with a brain.
You mean someone without a job.
I worship God, not a pastor, but The Purpose Driven Life has outsold every other book but the Bible, and the guy gives away 90% of his income, so i greatly respect that.
Christians don't have all the answers, but they have an understanding about life that those without Christ just dont. Of course it seems like foolishness to those who don't believe and don't want to, and that leads to childish posts like we see in response to this article. But when Christ gets into your heart, things just become much clearer and the foolishness of the world becomes so evident.
"...Christians may not have all the answers...."
"Of course it seems like foolishness to those who don't believe"
You got that right.
That was meant as a reply to Jim's comment.
Ah, this is the "brain" you were speaking of? A laugh, a quote, and a capitalized "no." I don't dare challenge your intellect.
Jim is a CDBB (Christian Drive-By Blogger)
im actually the controller of a company who went on to cnn.com to check out the news of the washington shootings, happened to see the rick warren headline, and as ive read his book, i clicked on it, and saw your comments, which annoyed me.
so, who are you? what do you do when you arent clicking on articles about christian pastors so you can make negative comments?
Something wrong with your caps key, Jim?
Well done, a reply. I am a business owner (2). I am a militant atheist and there is nothing you can say to me regarding religion that won't make me laugh.
well, sorry to hear that.(the athiest, not the business owner part) why so militant though? if everything i say would make you laugh, wouldnt that make you close minded, which is what christians are always accused of being?
An atheist or a believer walking through the door (death) into eternity.
If the atheist is correct and there is no god then no big deal when the atheist or a believer dies.
On the other hand if the believer is correct and there is a God and the only way to Him is through Jesus Christ and the believer dies no big deal for him as his eternal destination is secured but what then is the atheist faced with on the other side of the door when they die and pass through it, what awaits that individual.
This is a rhetorical question to anyone reading these posts. Please think about these questions and ponder them deeply in your soul. Please make your personal choice very carefully because whatever your choice you will have to live with that choice for eternity. Nothing in life is certain or guaranteed accept for death and death can come knocking at any moment and sweep you through the door from this life into eternity.
odd that those who call themselves truth rarely ever speak it.
You have gone a very long way to re-state Pascals wager, which is a weak false argument. Boy, you'll be pretty screwed when you get to the afterlife and Ra is mad at you for worshipping that false god of yours....see the problem?
Just a few (of the many) problems with your scenario for the "afterlife":
- What if the real "God" is Allah, or Vishnu, or Zeus, or Quetzalcoatl, or any of the other of thousands which have been dreamed up over the centuries? Some of them are very jealous and vengeful and will relegate you to nasty places for not worshiping them. You'd better cover your butt by believing in ALL of them and fulfill their wishes and demands.
- What if the real "God" prefers those who use logic and reason and punishes you as a silly sycophant?
- What if the real "God" detests those who believe something just to cover their butts in eternity?
Jim, I completely understand and agree with your comments. The mean spirited, childish, foolish comments from those who would rather tear something down rather than offer a solution are just plain sad.
It's all very well for Christians to claim that they 'devote their lives to living like Christ', except they don't stop there. It is firm Christian doctrine that if you don't believe in this 2000 year old dead carpenter with the long hair and beard, then YOU WILL GO TO HELL and burn in agony for all eternity. How's THAT for CHRISTIAN LOVE? ALL religions claim that THEIR members are better than non-believers, live more 'meaningful' lives, and will receive 'rewards' denied to those nasty foolish skeptics who don't believe in their particular magic guy(s) in the sky.
Jesus spoke about loving your neighbor as yourself, caring for the widows and poor, and "turning the other cheek". He also spoke about the reality of hell for those who don't believe. You can't pick and choose what you want from the gospel. Got a problem with that? Take it up with God.
" He also spoke about the reality of hell for those who don't believe"
What part of the Gospels did you pick that up from ?
ProdicalSon read the gospel of Matthew 25:31-46.
"31 “When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne.
"32 And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."
"33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left."
"41 “Then he will say, in turn, to those on his left, ..."
"46 And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”
"Everlasting cutting off" is not eternal torment in hell as you perceive hell or were taught to interpret hell as being a place of.
First, if "hell" were such a place of eternal torment as you believe, that would make God, who is love, a torturer. Second, it goes against the Scripture at Romans 6:23 where is says, "For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord."
Thirdly, in order for hell fire or eternal torment to work, one must be awake or have some consciousness after death. The Bible teaches that, " For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all ..." Ecclesiastes 9:5
Further to support this, Jesus indicated that death was liken to "sleep" when explaining that his friend Lazarus. John 11:11-14 says, "He (Jesus) said these things, and after this he said to them: “Laz′a·rus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep.” Therefore the disciples said to him: “Lord, if he has gone to rest, he will get well.” Jesus had spoken, however, about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. At that time, therefore, Jesus said to them outspokenly: “Laz′a·rus has died."
Unfortunately, the "hell fire doctrine" is a false doctrine promoted by false religion who does not teach the truth.
yet you are upset when christians try to evangelize others and spread the message of Christ. so which do you want?
How about they keep their religion to themselves. No missions, no religious belief taught as science, no religious texts on public buildings, no religious belief as law, and no bells on a Sunday.
Well, bells on Sunday are OK, as long as they're not too loud or too early. Thumbs up on the rest of it, though.
The part of your statement, "ALL religions claim that THEIR members are better than non-believers..." is correct. TRUE Christianity cares nothing about denomination, and promotes love of all people (not the sin, but the person). It sounds like you have been bamboozled by "religion". Try Christianity and see how that works out. A true Christian will accept a person for who he or she is (including Atheists). We are here to: (1) promote God's love for all people; (2) promote love of our fellow man.
Hey look everyone, a christian saying other christians are not true christians. I am absolutley certain I can find a group of christians that will say you are not a true christian.
Look up the No True Scotsman fallacy and see why your post is ridiculous.
I did not say, nor even imply, that a Christian is not a true Christian. To translate my post: beware of "religious" people who have an agenda in which they think they are better than their fellow man. Jesus did not promote this behavior. Man came up with this in an attempt to separate others because they didn't fit their agenda. Look up the various denominations, and yes, some under the label of Christianity, and see what kind(s) of people these groups try to exclude. That's a hint, loved one.
Yes you did, you gave YOUR definition of what true christianity is, then said "a true christian will" defining what a true christian will do, implying that there are many who are not true christians.
Do everyone a favor and stop arguing about god and what god wants. It is far more likely that there are no gods and you are all chasing your tails trying to please YOUR individual definition of god.
You are following much of Buddhas philosophy anyway, since he taught much of what Jesus allegedly did, Buddha just did it over 400 years earlier, why doesn't your Jesus character give Buddha credit for 90% of his ideas?
Not foolishness so much as unmitigated arrogance. Atheists don't have all the answers either. But (except for some, as there's always an exception to the rule) we don't wish eternal suffering on those who don't agree with us.
Christians do not wish eternal suffering on anyone. It is in the bible. Even Jesus spoke about it in Matthew 25:31-46. The reason for Christians to evangelize is to prevent anyone from this terrible consequence.
Who the BLEEP is Rick Warren?
Just another Douche Bag.
I had to ask that last time they wrote a bit on him. He seems to be one of the Christian personalities that people in places like Texas, Arkansas and Kentucky know all about. I don't think anyone in, say, New England or the Northwest much knows about these guys.
Yes, all the snarky, hateful comments about a man grieving the loss of his son make me want to sign up for atheism immediately. May want to rethink your strategy.
Read the very apt post that immediately precedes yours, moron.
I love how the way a person's brain can draw a comparison between making fun of a mega-church pastor and the existence of deities. As if the two are in any way related.
They may think it does, but obviously believing in any particular brand of Santa Claus does not make you smarter...
I am sorry about his son and I regret anyone would have to go through this.
However, I still resent the sancitimonious notion that he, or anyone else has all the answers for everyone living a productive life. I wish he would disappear into obscurity. Rwanda would be a good idea, if they do real work and not simply pontificate about how they have all answers implying everyone else is clueless sheep.
Trust me Christians are not clueless sheep. Quite a few Christians were were agnostic/atheist. However through some life altering events and the quest to better understand God, they became born again Christians. The Bible is a great book for answering a lot if not all questions. Sometimes need to turn things over to God because you as a person don't have the capability or know how to resolve certain aspects in your life
Bullshit, D. Just about everyone in the west has had to read the crazy Christian book of fables. Reading it with a properly functioning, critical mind, it is as another said, a great way to become an atheist. The idea than an omnipotent being needed to sacrifice a "son" in order to "save" us from something he created, is absurd and harmful. The believers are sheeple, precisely.
Whenever a post starts with "Trust me", we can be practically guaranteed that its content is suspect. Yours is no exception.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
As a former so called atheist, I thank God for breaking the chains and opening my eyes to the glorious truth of his love for me. I pray that your eyes will also be opened to his love. God bless you.
you seem to speak out of ignorance. Have you read the book, or looked into what he and others do around the world to help others? and what have you done?
Gee I speak out of ignorance? Yes I have read the the Bible. Many years ago. Do I know what he and others do around the world? Lets see building schools, creating clean water wells and of course teaching ppl about God's love. What do I do? Stand with my God, try to serve him, though sometimes I may not do a good job at it and help anyone that seeks aide.
D, that's the standard Christian gambit and marketing. It's mostly bullshit. The reality is that only a tiny portion of the funds and resources coming into the various churches go to charitable works. Secular organizations do a much better job, more efficiently, of bringing aid to those in need, without the sickening attempts to convert suffering (and often otherwise poorly educated) people to one of the many Christian cults.
If you are going to try to help those in need, don't do it via a Christian "charity" scam. Try supporting a UN org, or the efforts of one of these secular aid groups
relax, i was commenting on the original post above yours, not yours. they were judging the man without knowing anything about him besides this article.
For all those gloating over Rick Warren's pain and mocking this tradgedy, explain to me how you are any better than Westboro Baptist. On second thought you're even worse. At least they have the courage of their horrible and deluded convictions. You guys sit back and make snarky, disgusting, and hateful comments under the guise and cowardice of anonymity. Absolutely pathetic.
For all those gloating over Rick Warren's pain and mocking this tragedy,
Explain to me how you are any better than Westboro Baptist.
(I am not an idiot)
On second thought you're even worse.
At least they have the courage of their horrible and deluded convictions. You guys sit back and make snarky, disgusting, and hateful comments under the guise and cowardice of anonymity. Absolutely pathetic.
(You got me there.)
Well Apple Bush at least you admit you're pathetic. That's generally the first step. Also Westboro is surprisingly and frustratingly good at litigation and winning the right to spew their hatred, which would run counter to your assertion that they're idiots (your deliniation between yourself and them). So it turns out you're just like them.
Yes apple you are an idiot. Christian or not, one does not make fun of death in any light. Does not matter if the man was a pastor or not.
Does THIS make you worse than Westboro? Nope, but you are speaking ill of the man and his tragedy. This is not on on God's top 10 list of how you treat others.
What's wrong with making fun of death? I love whenever somebody really famous dies because you know you are going to be inundated with death jokes for about a month. Remember when Michael Jackson died? I had a laughter hard-on for about a year.
The difference between me and them is honesty.
If you are looking for laughs about death, then you already have issues. Suicide is nothing to joke about. Doing so makes you look like an idiot and uncaring. Then ppl such as yourself want to criticize a pastor or religion. Funny that the MAJORITY of religious ppl would comfort and applaud this man to speak on his pain and to educate. So how how are you benefiting mankind? Joke about death, then apparently death such as this has not knocked at your doorstep
You sure like baseless assumptions, don't ya?
“I had thought – I had been told – that a ‘funny’ thing is a thing of a goodness. It isn’t. Not ever is it funny to the person it happens to. The goodness is in the laughing itself. I grok it is a bravery … and a sharing … against pain and sorrow and defeat.”
“Death isn’t funny.”
“Then why are there so many jokes about death? Jill, with us – us humans – death is so sad that we must laugh at it. All those religions, they contradict each other on every other point but every one of them is filled with ways to help people be brave enough to laugh even though they know they are dying.”
– From "Stranger In A Strange Land", Robert Heinlein
Joking about death is often a fantastic way to bring up the subject. At my fathers memorial, we all told one of my fathers favorite stories, and he was a hilarious story teller. My memorial will be a party, with music and laughter. My friends will honor me by NOT making any religious speeches, but will instead celebrate my life. True it is trajic in most cases of suicide, but the right joke at the right time can do far more than praying ever thought to. I have lost several people I know to suicide, and laughter is a great way to start down the path of healing.
Mega Church = Mega Fraud. The kid killed himself because of fraud not because of a gun and I am a total gun control advocate. Enough religion, its tearing society apart at the seams.
I do not think you know what you are talking about. That is generalizing and stereotyping. Prejudice comes from thoughts like yours. Pastor Warren hasn't received a salary for almost 10 years now and does not live in luxury since his success authoring A Purpose Driven Llfe. http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlaura/2013/03/21/pastor-rick-warren-is-practicing-what-he-preaches-and-getting-ready-for-retirement/
People who are ignorant should not be able to speak their thoughts. They just cause hatred, wars, and suffering of the world.
Everyone should be able to spout their opinion, no matter how abhorrent others find it.
You did well by refuting the statement with verified facts, thus making the original poster look like a goon.
If I ever met Ernst Zundel, I'd want to punch him in the face – but I'd still defend his right to publish nonsense.
yes, if the ignorant were not allowed to talk, there would be no political speeches ever given. hey, im starting to like your idea.
He killed himself because of fraud? As far as religion tearing the society apart at the seams, one could argue it is the lack of such moral laws that are actually tearing this country apart. I suppose it depends on your reference point and wha tworld it is that you envision. You appear to be a veteran. I sincerely thank you for your service.
What happened in your life to make you hate GOD so much? You will meet Him one day and He doesn't accept excuses.
So anyone that kills themself us being defrauded?
So anyone that kills themselves is because of fraud? Lol If you are a veteran, then you would know damn well that's far from the truth. Your comment is disgusting sir. There have been many suicides in this nation where ppl lived a very productive and happy (or so everyone thought) life, but committed suicide anyway. One word for you MORON
Sadly, in response to a story about a man preparing to share about the painful suicide of his son, a number of commenters decide that juvenile cracks about Christians are in order. Any opportunity to caricature and ignore the man's words – and the interview hasn't even aired yet!
Why, the next thing you know, those same commenters will be posting about how they don't believe in God because believing in God makes people callous and mean.
I don't believe in God because believing in God makes people callous and mean.
im sorry you have been hurt by others- hypocrites, or imperfect people...but dont use that as an excuse to escape God..
maybe do what i did this weekend... spend a day or more with people from Samaritan's Purse helping people rebuild after Hurricane Sandy. people from all over the country giving of their time and talents because they love others.If your opinion of christians wouldnt change after that, i give up.
Jim, quit trying to hurt me. You are making me run from gods.
How do you even respond to such idiotic statements? Believing in God is what causes people to be mean and callous? So atheists are never mean or callous? God isn't corrupt, man is corrupt.
Rick Warren returns to the spotlight ... and the spotlight is where he loves it.
I hope he takes his latest "mission" to some far-off country so we won't have to listen to anymore of his fairy tales. What a clown!
This is business. You are taking this very personal when it's just business.
Feel free to leave our natio. At any time!
No to Atheism,
Your comment applies to anyone here and so it was totally pointless.
lAthiests are the only ones complaining about religion, uf they don't like it they can pack their stuff and get the heck out of a nation.
No to Atheism,
Believers are the only ones complaining about not being able to inflict their messages onto schools and other public buildings. By your "logic", since they don't like what is happening in our nation, they can leave.
The United States was created as a secular nation by our Founding Fathers. True patriots will try to save it from religious zealotry like yours, because we love and respect our county and our freedoms. We won't stand by and watch radical christians turn it into a theocracy like Iran.
Thank you for saying that, tallulah13.
Why don't you leave instead?
Back in the spotlight again...yeah, but when is Rick Warren going to come out of the closet?
If Hell were real, each occupant would be a shining example of how God has failed.
Do you know stupid you sound posting while using satan as our id?
Do you know how stupid you sound when you post with a name such as yours?
I will take the Seahawks.
I am only one cry in the long journey to the edge of the beginning of your journey.
Many cries may visit and be your friends.
Some have had a really hard time of it so just avoid the really bad ones.
I saw a sunset and it was perfect.
Why do you ask me to see another?
For in waiting for the next sunset, I will endure much suffering!
Perfection exists in the suffering too.
Be thankful for the pain.
Did I not thank you by loving you?
You suck God.
Why blame god for life's pains
When gains are ignored
Life's flower may bloom in silence and loneliness
But that doesn't make it
A most beautiful miracle
I am not a religious person and generally preachers like this make me and Jesus ill (Matthew 19), but I am sorry for the loss of his child and it is good to see him act like a normal person would. Who could lose their son and not be in pain? Not a normal human, or one with any sort of compassion.
o Why blame god for life's pains (Because it’s His desire)
When gains are ignored (Poor Planning)
Life's flower may bloom in silence and loneliness (Nice poetry. not)
But that doesn't make it
A most beautiful miracle (There are no miracles)
I'm not a poet but I am an agnostic and I believe in miracles.
I can't explain describe gravity but not explain it. I can draw a tomato but not explain it. I follow religion but I can't explain how the beings that created it arrived here. 'Because god did it' or 'it's in my ancient scripture and you just have to believe' doesn't do it for me either.
Salvatore Fladabosco said that god talks to us "in the form of blue jays and hydrocarbons and the beneficial bacteria that live in your lower digestive system." Perhaps even less poetic than my posts but the sentiment makes perfect sense to me.
So this time a bad haiku:
Spin, big blue marble!
How can we know what is true?
God, the Mystery!
God probably did not address suicide in black and white for a good reason. If we knew that we would still go to Heaven if we killed ourselves, there would probably be a lot more suicides taking place than there already are.
If when we die we go to heaven, who inherits the earth ? "Jesus said, Happy are the meek since they will inherit the earth" Matthew 5:5
the people who thought this fairy tale up realized that if suicide was OK, they would run out of believers. the scam of religion needs believers to breed furiously! You can see it through the writings of christianity and especially islam. breed you deluded believers! breed and brainwash your children!
Don't you think "thou shalt not kill" includes oneself? Understanding how we obtain forgiveness for sins is why Pastor Warren has faith his son is in Heaven despite his action.
If when we die we go to heaven, who comes out of the "memorial tombs" or the "sea that gave up their dead" ?
"Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out ... " John 5:28-29a
"And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Ha′des gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds." Revelation 20:13