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September 19th, 2013
11:01 AM ET
Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gaysBy Eric Marrapodi and Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editors (CNN) - Pope Francis said the church has the right to express its opinions but not to "interfere spiritually" in the lives of gays and lesbians, expanding on explosive comments he made in July about not judging homosexuals. In a wide-ranging interview published Thursday, the pope also said that women must play a key role in church decisions and brushed off critics who say he should be more vocal about fighting abortion and gay marriage. Moreover, if the church fails to find a "new balance" between its spiritual and political missions, the pope warned, its moral foundation will "fall like a house of cards." The interview, released by Jesuit magazines in several different languages and 16 countries on Thursday, offers perhaps the most expansive and in-depth view of Francis' vision for the Roman Catholic Church. The pope's comments don't break with Catholic doctrine or policy, but instead show a shift in approach, moving from censure to engagement. Elected in March with the expectation that he would try to reform the Vatican, an institution that many observers say is riven by corruption and turf wars, Francis said his first mission is to change the church's "attitude." "The church has sometimes locked itself up in small things," the pope said, "in small-minded rules." "The people of God want pastors," Francis continued, "not clergy acting like bureaucrats or government officials." MORE ON CNN: New interview shows why the pope is so beloved The interview was conducted by the Rev. Antonio Spadaro, editor of La Civilta Cattolica, a Jesuit journal based in Rome, over three meetings this August at Francis' apartment in Rome. The pope approved the transcript in Italian, according to America magazine, a Jesuit journal based in New York that initiated the interview and supervised its translation into English. Advance copies of the interview were provided to several news organizations, including CNN. Jesuits from around the world submitted questions to Spadaro. Francis answered them with the frankness that has become a hallmark of his young papacy. To begin the interview, Spadoro bluntly asks, "Who is Jorge Mario Bergolio?" - Francis's name before he was elected pope. "I am a sinner," the pope answers. "This is the most accurate definition. It is not a figure of speech, a literary genre. I am a sinner.” The pope didn't mention any particular sins, and Catholic theology holds that all humans are sinners, a consequence of Adam and Eve's original transgression. Still, a pope describing himself foremost as "sinner" is striking. MORE ON CNN: The pope said what? Six stunners from Francis Offering new glimpses of his personal life, Francis said he prays at the dentist's office and felt trapped in the Vatican's traditional papal apartments. (He moved to a smaller one in a nearby building.) He has a taste for tragic artists and Italian films and keeps the will of his beloved grandmother in his prayerbook. But it was the pope's vision for the church's future - painted in broad strokes - that's sure to rile or inspire Catholics, depending on which side of the church they sit. Here are some highlights: On Women In July, Francis said, emphatically, that the "door is closed," on women's ordination, a statement that disappointed many Catholic liberals. But that doesn't mean the church should consider women secondary or inferior, Francis said. "The feminine genius is needed wherever we make important decisions," he told Spadora. Francis also called on Catholics to think hard about the function of women in the church. "Women are asking deep questions that must be addressed," the pope said. "The church cannot be herself without the woman and her role." On Homosexuality When Francis was a bishop in Buenos Aires, Argentina, he received letters from gays and lesbians who said they were "socially wounded" by the church, he said. "But the church does not want to do this," Francis said in the interview. The pope then recalled his comments in July, when he told the media aboard a flight to Rome, "Who am I to judge" gay people? MORE ON CNN: Pope Francis on gays: 'Who am I to judge?' "By saying this, I said what the catechism says," the pope told Spadaro. The catechism, the Catholic Church's book of official doctrine, condemns homosexual acts, but says gays and lesbians "must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity." "Religion has the right to express its opinion in the service of the people, but God in creation has set us free: it is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person." Francis said that someone once asked him if he "approved" of homosexuality. "I replied with another question," he said. "`Tell me, when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person. Here we enter into the mystery of the human being." Abortion, gay marriage and contraception Some American Catholics grumble that Francis has been largely silent on signature Catholic political issues. "I’m a little bit disappointed in Pope Francis that he hasn’t, at least that I’m aware of, said much about unborn children, about abortion, and many people have noticed that," Bishop Thomas Tobin of Providence, Rhode Island, said earlier this month. Francis said that he's aware of the criticism, but he is not going to change. “We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods," he told his Jesuit interviewer. "I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that." But the pope said the church's teachings on those issue are clear, and he clearly believes in those teachings, so what else is there to say? "It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time," Francis said. False prophets and quick decisions Only false prophets claim to have all the answers, Francis said. "The great leaders of the people of God, like Moses, have always left room for doubt," he said. "You must leave room for the Lord." But church leaders, including himself, haven't always practiced humility, the pope admitted. Many of the bad decisions he made while leading Catholics in Argentina came about because of his "authoritarianism and quick manner of making decisions," the pope said. That won't happen again, Francis said, as he begins to steer the church in a new direction. He didn't offer an exact course, but he said change will come. Sooner or later. "Many think that changes and reforms can take place in a short time," he said. "I believe that we always need time to lay the foundations for real, effective change. And this is the time of discernment." soundoff (3,625 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Pope most be very be CRAZY to make such statement
Many people are like the church... But have you people forgot the atrocities the Catholics have done throughout the centuries, the same or worst atrocities Islam is doing today?? You people are blind to think god even bless a church full of blood in their hands and that worries more about pleasing people then in doing the will of god!
no doubt.. and let's not forget the church still lobbies to stop laws which would xpose cover ups of abused children.
The truth is the greatest healer and this organization prefers to preserve a reputation over helping the abused children.
Wonderful group catholics are.
Exactly.
Yea, so God will send them to hell.
THE WHEEL OF JUSTICE TURNS
I feel strangely bad for having said that...
Oh yea the supporter of illegals and not gays. The Catholic Church is a sham. Those with any intelligence know better.
Maybe the GOP can adapt a similar strategy!
There is no difference between Organized religion and communism – You are more than, you are more capable than what you are sermonized during Sunday. You dont need a Priest, a Pope on your path to realizing God. Church is a business and the pope is a CEO.
The pope is a SINNER? Isn't anyone vetting these guys? Some background
checks, SOMETHING?
Excellent PR by the funny-hat guy, but I bet most Catholics will pass on the sheep smell item.
Doesn't matter when there is NO SIN to begin with. When you will the humans learn you have all been duped into giving your money to other humans so control you. Why don't you control yourself? Can you?
Abortion should be legal for all and those that choose not to seek it and still choose not to seek it. Why can't Catholics understand that?
Frank, I agree. Not only that, but abortion is a personal issue, not a religious issue. and the legalization of abortion is a political issue, not a religious issue. If someone thinks that their god would disapprove, that is their own belief and they can base their actions off of that. But to expect to set laws regarding personal issues because of the belief of someone else's god is ludicrous.
Abortion is not a personal issue. Human life is from God. Anybody who takes life will hold accountable of this life. If you can make a workaround in this world, I guarantee you , that nobody can escape the judgment from God.
Abortion is murder. That is why it shouldn't be legal. Has nothing to do with religion, in my opinion. A 10-week old fetus is incapable of surviving without the mother – a newborn left in a dumpster is also incapable of surviving on its own. One is "abortion," while the other is "murder." Makes zero sense.
So? We allow the death of people all the time. We murder criminals and people on battle fields. We murder the terminally ill. We murder civilians in the form of collateral damage. All of which are legal. Abortion is just another form of murder that most people find moral.
Abortion isn't murder. If it was, it would be called "murder." I respect your personal stance on it, and I share with you the knowledge that it is nothing I, personally, could or would ever do. However, when it becomes illegal, abortions don't stop. They just happen in unsafe ways by unauthorized people that are likely to damage the fetus rather than kill it, and that are likely to damage and/or kill the mother. You can't stop something from happening by setting a law because you think it is right. You can only stop it from happening legally, and therefore putting others in danger.
@Laura,
A newborn does not need to be inside, i.e. a part of, a specific person, the pregnant woman, in order to survive. While it cannot fend for itself, it doesn't require an constant umbilical connection on single person.
If you really want to understand the catholic church, and the spirit behind it, visit be4thefire.com. Check out the Vatican exposed link, and all other videos as your heart desires. Remember, the same spirit that built the Vatican is working through this Pope. Watch the videos, and decide for yourself if the Pope is spreading false doctrine that will lead people into Hell.
Jesus washed the feet of the poor and was humble, unlike you atheists spewing your lies about Jesus's Truth. We lost one of the kittens. My camel-toe is devastated. Jesus gave you a way to be saved. Think about turning left on to that road.
Amen.
Jesus fed the hungry, cured the sick and preached tolerance... Why do Christians do exactly the opposite??
No Jesus did not preach tolerance, he never compromises. His claim is He is the Way, the Truth and The Life. NoOne can come to the Father except through Him. Jesus is the only way to God. That is His claim. And I believe Him with all my heart.
jesus needed a good therpist..
Anyone who is sinless say so now. Judge not others. For we all are sinners.
Define "sin" and I will tell you my answer.
No need, I read your posts last night, you're a sinner.
My posts last night were abundantly reasonable in both tone and content.
My posts last night were abundantly reasonable in both tone and content.
Sin is an old english archery term for missing the mark. I don't know what the word was in whatever language it was originally spoken in or the implications associated with the word in that language. Sin in old English is a good definition, missing the mark. We all miss the mark at some point, it's a good analogy.
There is no need to define sin for you. As you know and you know what sin is. The moment humans are passed the age of accountability, it may be early for other or late to others, unless a person is mentally ill, there is the consciousness in us of sin.
I was surprised one time. I was approached by my son who was crying, he was probably 10 at that time. He was crying that he said I made a mistake today can you please forgive me and help me not feel guilty of what I had done. He said his classmate at school in the computer lab showed women models that were almost naked. He said he looked at them for a while because somehow he liked it but eventually he felt weird feeling of guilt that what he had done was not right.
Quick ...... Send him to a psychology.
I feel as though Pope Francis (as well as his wish for many priest and nuns) is like a boss or a parent who says, "look if you are doing x, y, or z...I don't want to know about it. If I know about it I will have to do something....keep it to yourself." The thing is most people who are going to church are searching for a deeper answer. The tale of two priest...one a more strict traditionalist. No ambiguity into what the mission might be for the following week...and always with an admonishment to be faithful Christians and good citizens. Another more progressive, yet humble priest sermonizing about the air, and the birds, and the philosophers, ans society. Though well liked because of his voice and demeanor in a congregation of 400, if 100 or 1/4 understood what he said...it would be a miracle. The thing is many priest, both conservative and liberal (more liberal) don't speak to the least of these. Many walk out confused- Evangelization is a foreign concept. I just don't know-I do know mass doesn't need to be more complicated. Adults are like children also, when given no boundaries there is little security. If you can't find security in church; where can you find it?
I feel as though Pope Francis, (as well as his wish for many priest and nuns), is like a boss or a parent who says, "look, if you are doing x, y, or z...I don't want to know about it. If I know about it; I will have to do something....keep it to yourself." The thing is- most people who are going to church are searching for a deeper answer. The tale of two priest.;.one a more strict traditionalist. No ambiguity into what the mission might be for the following week...and always with an admonishment to be faithful Christians and good citizens. Another more progressive, yet humble, priest sermonizing about the air, and the birds, and the philosophers, and society. Though well liked, because of his voice and demeanor in a congregation of 400, if 100 or 1/4 understood what he said...it would be a miracle. The thing is many priest, both conservative and liberal (more liberal) don't speak to the least of these.Literacy levels of the most faithful run many different ways. Many walk out confused- Evangelization is a foreign concept. I just don't know-I do know mass doesn't need to be more complicated. Adults are like children also, when given no boundaries; there is little security. If you can't find security in church; where can you find it?
Lol! the Pope is gay x-p
The Pope is going to hell. How? He doesn't practice repentance to righteousness (The secret to salvation that Jesus gave in Mat 21:31).
A pope that cares about the poor would build programs to grow and develop their hearts and minds. He just does PR visits to get people to follow him, so that he can control them later when the economy crashes.
Popes also follow infallibility which makes it difficult for a Pope to be saved by Jesus (Mat 21:31) and follow The Law of Righteous Judgment (Lev 19:15,35-36) to be saved under the law.
You actually believe that nonsense?
Not good enough Franny boy. You also need to stop discriminating against women and open up every position in the church to women.
I could just as equally challenge you who disbelieve to prove that God does NOT exist. You can't.
I cannot "prove" to you that God exists – I can only show you the Way for you to "prove" it to yourself – as I learned when I was 41 years old (17 years ago).
God has chosen to reveal Himself through the eyes of Faith – for His own good reasons – many of which I now understand – but you would reject since you are currently determined to choose to follow your Intellect over Obedience.
"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him." [Hebrews 11:7]
If you would choose to Obey, God will give you more than enough Evidence not only for His Existence, but for His Love and Power. And you would find that your Intellect will be opened to true Understanding. There have been many great minds – and are still many today – who believe in God – and Jesus – and the Holy Spirit. It's not a matter of Intellect, however, but of the Will – choosing to Obey and to Believe.
"If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own." [John 7:17]
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." [John 6:29]
But, if you choose to continue in Rebellion – then as the Scripture says: "The Light shines in the Darkness – but the Darkness has not Comprehended it". [John 1:5]
May you find Him before your time here is done.
Grace.
I challenge you to prove that I do not have an invisible mind-reading shark in my pocket.
See how easily that logical fallacy fails? Prove god does not exist?
I'm surprised that there are people who still think that this is a clever argument. You can't disprove that there are invisible pink leprechauns dancing on the head of every pin, either. You can point to such being EXTREMELY unlikely, and in that framing, the God of the Bible doesn't have much of a defense, if any. The question of why God doesn't heal amputees calls to question many of the major claims of Jesus and other important figures of the Bible, and that's just one small example.
It's the "believing without seeing" aspect of faith that is difficult to comprehend. I am a faithful Christian who can completely acknowledge that it is difficult, sometimes impossible, concept to fully understand. I remind myself sometimes that I can't see the wind – I can't see air. We know it's there because science has told us it is and we rely on that research. For whatever reason, science is taken as "the Word" whereas religion is seen as wacky. There are many religions, sure – but there are also many scientific theories as well. We don't discredit science as a whole simply because scientists differ on how or why things happen.
'I remind myself sometimes that I can't see the wind – I can't see air. We know it's there because science has told us it is and we rely on that research.'
Or that you can actually see the effect yourself on a pinwheel, or feel it blowing on your face, or see the trees swaying in the breeze. Actual, tangible, proof.
'For whatever reason, science is taken as "the Word" whereas religion is seen as wacky.'
Because science reaches conclusions by verifiable repeatable experimentation, religion claims the use of magic. That is why.
'There are many religions, sure – but there are also many scientific theories as well. We don't discredit science as a whole simply because scientists differ on how or why things happen.'
Not one of those supposed conflicting scientific theories ever claim it was magic. And if there are competing theories its because none have been proven yet to be correct; religions all claim to be correct and without challenge.
why do you get all hung up on one of the 5 sences?
I can Feel the air, smell the air, hear the wind blow.
Appreciate your perspective, but faith is not evidence.
"If you would choose to Obey, God will give you more than enough Evidence not only for His Existence, but for His Love and Power"
If one chooses to obey, then by definition they already believe in whom they are obeying and "evidence" becomes irrelevant.
Here are the premises that I base my conclusion upon for the Biblical God / Jesus.
Natural origins or Supernatural origins?
a) Matter, energy and time exists. Where did they come from? There is currently no naturalistic explanation that has supporting evidence for this issue.
b) Life exists. Where did life come from? There is currently no naturalistic explanation that has supporting evidence for this issue.
Therefore, this implies some supernatural event or being is necessary.
Which supernatural event or being answer the above?
a) Multiple religions address the creation of life.
b) The Biblical account (which includes all the Abrahamic religions) begins with the creation of matter, energy and time,
c) No other religion begins with the creation of matter, energy and time
Therefore, only the Abrahamic religions answer both of the basic issues.
Did the Judaism God Do It?
a) Given accurate transmission of the Jewish Bible,
b) Given the fulfillment of foretold specific prophecies (incl: Eze 37) in the Jewish Bible
Therefore, the God of the Jews is a viable contender for this supernatural being.
Did the Islamic God Do It?
a) Given inaccurate transmission of the Koran Bible,
b) Given the factual inaccuracies (i.e. members of the Trinity)
c) Given the lack of specific prophecies in the Koran
Therefore, the God of the Muslims is not a viable contender.
Did the Christian God Do It?
a) Given accurate transmission of the Christian Bible (i.e. Jewish / OT and NT),
b) Given the fulfillment of foretold specific prophecies (incl: Eze 37, Rev 13) in the Christian Bible
Therefore, the God of the Christians is a viable contender for this supernatural being. Since it includes the Jewish beliefs as well, it is the most plausible answer to how we got here.
I'm not sure how questions can be premises, e.g. "Matter, energy and time exists. Where did they come from?"
The "God of the christians" created the entire world, and all life within, yet didn't choose to share his redeeming message with all his equal creations. I'd say that removes this God from contention.
You fail at your first assertion. The fact that we don't know the origin of matter and energy does not mean that a supernatural force was behind it. Early man did not understand why the sun rose and set, so they attributed it to gods who literally hauled it into the sky.
Your reasoning is equally immature. The rest of your post falls apart from there.
'Natural origins or Supernatural origins?.... Therefore, this implies some supernatural event or being is necessary.'
That’s poor logic. A current lack of explanation, if that is true in the first place that such a explanation does not currently exist, does not therefore mean that it must have been magic.
‘Which supernatural event or being answer the above?
a) Multiple religions address the creation of life.
b) The Biblical account (which includes all the Abrahamic religions) begins with the creation of matter, energy and time,
c) No other religion begins with the creation of matter, energy and time
Therefore, only the Abrahamic religions answer both of the basic issues.’
All religions deal in the creation of matter, and deal with the creation of the sun and thus ‘time’
Where does the bible talk about energy?
As for the claim of prophecies…..until you can actually show when they were written and that they actually did happen and not just claimed to have happened by writers long after the original events then you have nothing. Certainly nothing to claim one god over another.
all in all that was a rather poor reasoning argument as to why you believe.
Quoting biblical scripture means you align yourself with a particular flavor of religion, which means by extension that you are separating yourself in a way from other members of the human race who may have no knowledge of the religion you prefer. Unless you think you are special? When the Pope talks about "God's people", he better be referring to the human race as a whole.
He's not talking about all humans. We are all special as humans, God's people and Satan's people.
God's people and Satan's people.
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Then who are "God's people"? Let me guess.........the one's who think the same as you?
Man, I'm glad our legal system (and basically every other form of human common sense) doesn't run on your "prove it DIDN'T happen" philosophy.
That's insane.
Sorry, Grace. It doesn't work that way. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. The base state is what we can observe. We can observe no gods. If you claim that a god or gods exist, YOU must prove that they do.
if my senses tell me that you are a human and I then claim that you are in fact an alien dressed up as a human, it is I who must prove my claim. To ask you to disprove my insane assertion is in fact insane. The same goes with creating a magical deity, using that belief to interfere in the lives of others, and then putting the burden of proof on those who have been negatively impacted by your outrageous claim.
Ok, if the burden of proof is on the one making the claim, then prove to me your claim that the universe was created without god. you can't
The ultimate origin of the universe is as yet unknown. That is why scientists are still investigating.
I made no such claim. The only claim we would make is that the universe exists. Science makes the claim that the Big Bang is a possible theory using our observations of the universe. it is, as yet, only a theory.
Contrast that with the absolute claim that no only do gods exist, but there is only one, he is angry and vengeful, he dislikes nookie, and he created the entire universe for one insignificant race on an insignificant planet. The evidence for this is a book which was written 400 years after the events it describes, has been poorly translated too many times to count, and cannot be verified using any historical methods.
I cannot disprove that god made the universe because you have not yet prove that the concept of a god is a valid one.
Maranantha, you 'converted' because you fear death, not because you 'believe,' but because you "need to believe" you will live on again, after this life. There is no proof of god, nor any other gods. Life isn't fair, but one can live a good one inspite of hardships that come along. Don't rely on a 'feeling' that something is talking to you, guiding you.
I sought Jesus for 38 years to "cure" me of being gay. I'm still GAY. Where was He? Where is He? The church condemned me. If that is LOVE, then count me out! Almost committed suicide, but didnt. Guess all the so-called Christians wish that I had. As long as I have breath, I will continue to debunk the myths and hate that come from orgainized religion.
No problem Pope.
Just tell them to stay out of church affairs if they are going to insist on living that lifestyle...
The lifestyle is a sin. But you love the sinner, not the sin.
Yeah, because the child molesters are in charge now and don't want to give up their power.
1) There are gay (friendly) churches all around. They have every right to be involved in the affairs of the churches that want them to be.
2) You people have been butting into OUR lives for YEARS, not the other way around, so don't even pretend that anything has been forced on *you.*
Yeah, the nerve of them to scream while they were providing human fuel for the witch burnings.
Tell you what: get your god off our currency, our pledge, our classrooms, and our government buildings, and it's a deal.
Does that mean the Pope is going to Hell? That would be ironic!
Sin does not mean hell...where do you get your Biblical intelligence? Do some research on sin as it relates to the Church....you should at least have some knowledge about what you HATE before you hate it
Research on sin? Why would we research something which does not exist?