September 30th, 2013
08:55 AM ET

Popes John XXIII and John Paul II to be declared saints in April

From Ben Wedeman, CNN

(CNN) - Popes John XXIII and John Paul II will be declared saints in April, the Vatican said Monday.

The announcement came after Pope Francis met with cardinals to discuss the planned canonizations of two of his predecessors. The ceremony will take place on April 27.

It will be the first time two popes will be canonized at the same time.

To be named a saint involves a series of steps, but the qualifications are straightforward, according to the veteran Vatican analyst John Allen.

"You put a holy life and two miracles together, according to the Catholic system, you've got a saint," he said.

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Catholic Church • Pope Francis • Pope John Paul II

soundoff (782 Responses)
  1. Age of Reason

    Why I am not a christian Bertrand Russell 1928

    September 30, 2013 at 9:10 pm |
    • Non-robot

      "My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such a violent reaction against it?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if i did that, then my argument against God collapsed too–for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist – in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless – I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality – namely my idea of justice – was full of sense. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known it was dark. Dark would be without meaning. "

      C.S. Lewis

      September 30, 2013 at 9:17 pm |
      • Cpt. Obvious

        Critical thinking is a tool for survival and we are a social species. There's really no mystery to it, but I see C S Lewis's point against the argument for design; if everything were designed, we'd not know it because we would have nothing undersigned to inform of us of the concept of design. Fair point, and a good argument against "intelligent design."

        September 30, 2013 at 10:04 pm |
      • Tom, Tom, the Other One

        Evil is necessary, else good would have no meaning etc.

        September 30, 2013 at 10:08 pm |
      • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

        Once again C.S. Lewis starts from a faulty premise, and then ends up with a fallacious conclusion. The universe is not cruel or unjust. It is indifferent. It is exactly what one would expect to find if there is no god.

        September 30, 2013 at 10:08 pm |
      • Cpt. Obvious

        Lewis simply equivocates with the term "meaning." It was an ironic mistake for Lewis to make: Bandying about the term meaning meaninglessly. If you're going to talk about the meaning of something or many things, then square the term and define what you intend. What exactly does he intend by the universe having no meaning?

        C. S. simply never got the thing of the ground. Just because he lumbered it down the runway and crashed into some trees at the end doesn't mean that the pretty fireball makes up for the damage.

        September 30, 2013 at 10:16 pm |
      • Brother Maynard

        Wow !! I just learned a ton!
        I always thought that C.S. Lewis lived like during the age of enlightenment, 18th century. He died in 1963 !!
        I've been reading some C.S. Lewis recently because Xtians always quote him like he is a gospel writer. The guy is so inconherent ( sp?) it is really sad. He has the logic base of Glenn Beck

        October 1, 2013 at 10:04 am |
  2. Apple Bush

    If I were a god, and I wanted to create billions of creatures to worship me, I would make them the way I wanted them to look and behave.

    September 30, 2013 at 8:13 pm |
    • Robert Brown


      September 30, 2013 at 8:18 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        Whatever. The point is you could just skip the religion stuff.

        September 30, 2013 at 8:22 pm |
        • Non-robot

          Give them a choice to love or hate you.

          September 30, 2013 at 8:53 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          I remember that episode of Star Trek – Kirk seduces a lovely robot and she learns to choose who she will love. It kills her. Kind of mediocre, but not bad, really.

          September 30, 2013 at 8:57 pm |
      • Brother Maynard

        Robert Brown sez:
        Which begs the question ...
        Why would you make something other than the initial intent that you wanted ?
        That is like wanting an omlet for breakfast, having the power and intent and ingredients to make the omlet. Make the omlet and then when you sit down to eat it ... it tastes like a chicken pot pie.

        October 1, 2013 at 10:16 am |
    • Fiori di Capri

      " I would make them the way I wanted them to look and behave."

      –Can you also list the characteristics of how they will "look" and how they'll "behave"?

      September 30, 2013 at 8:30 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        Yes I can, once I write it all down.

        September 30, 2013 at 8:34 pm |
  3. OKfine

    Memorable Quotes
    Captain Louis Renault, Casablanca " I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here."
    Ratzinger as pope Benny 16th "I am shocked that such conduct could be practiced by the clergy" this after handling the files for decades. The hypocrisy is astounding even for the RCC. Right BD.
    If the truth comes out deny deflect and obfuscate.
    St Liar the Illusionist.

    September 30, 2013 at 6:46 pm |
  4. Lionly Lamb


    September 30, 2013 at 6:12 pm |
    • sam stone

      for gosh sake, LL, smoke a joint and relax already

      September 30, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
      • Lionly Lamb

        Wish I could S.S....

        My state has neither made it recreational nor medicinal... In two Novembers it will hopefully be put up for our state's people to so decide... With 17 or so states legalizing Cannabis for medicinal usages and 2 for recreational, I hope our states people will vote the medicinal use of Cannabis into being made lawful...

        September 30, 2013 at 6:33 pm |
        • sam stone

          right. florida...good luck with that

          September 30, 2013 at 6:37 pm |
        • Lionly Lamb

          We have a well known lawyer firm supporting the use of medical marijuana... John P. Morgan...

          September 30, 2013 at 6:43 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          Have you ever considered doing something unlawful, LL? Surely you've transcended the need for such arbitrary restrictions. I'm sure the laws of your state have very little to offer you at this stage.

          September 30, 2013 at 7:07 pm |
        • Athy

          So no one in Florida smokes grass because it's illegal? Yeah, right!

          September 30, 2013 at 7:55 pm |
        • sam stone

          no, no, no.....all floridians are law abiding citizens.....

          except those who go on killing sprees

          October 1, 2013 at 3:03 am |
  5. OKfine

    The reason that are cup runneth over is that they are to dumb to realize they are being scammed.
    St Greedy the Banker

    September 30, 2013 at 6:02 pm |
  6. Thought Purification

    If these people have super power to cure disease, why can't they make the whole world disease free? Why are they limited to perform two miracles, and not 20, 200, or 2000 miracles? Nothing make sense.

    September 30, 2013 at 5:27 pm |
    • Just the Facts Ma'am...

      It's a miracle that contrary to the evidence there are still billions of people who believe in miracles...

      September 30, 2013 at 5:40 pm |
  7. bostontola

    Ok, so if the earth is billions of years old, life has been on earth for most of that, and genetics/DNA science is solid, then evolution is a unrelenting, indomitable consequence.

    September 30, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      God the Creator would never let its Creation evolve in anything...unseemly. Would it?

      September 30, 2013 at 5:20 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      The oldest living tree on earth is 5063 years old.

      September 30, 2013 at 8:16 pm |
    • Cristeros for Satan

      Does clonal qualify as a tree?

      September 30, 2013 at 8:24 pm |
      • Robert Brown

        I suppose so, but I purposely avoided estimated ages & carbon dating.

        September 30, 2013 at 8:56 pm |
  8. Alias


    September 30, 2013 at 5:12 pm |
    • ok

      Yes. And there are still atheists that spend all day thinking and talking about religion. What a funny world.

      September 30, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
      • Just the Facts Ma'am...

        Wouldn't there be mathmeticians discrediting those who were attempting to claim that 2 + 2 = meow? So there will always be atheists who have to stand up for truth and discredit those who claim the earth is only 6000 years old and the Genesis account is factual.

        September 30, 2013 at 5:44 pm |
        • ok

          ya! And most mathematicians point out that math doesn't lead one to atheism.

          September 30, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
        • ME II

          please cite your source.

          September 30, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I'm sure each and every bible is a perfect example of its sort of thing.

      September 30, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
  9. NOVA scienceNOW w/ Neil deGrasse Tyson: Where did we come from?

    Published on Mar 23, 2012

    Nova: Science Now on PBS | "Where did we come from?" with host Neil DeGrasse Tyson explores the origin of our solar system and the start of life itself, how head lice figure in human evolution, and more. Journey back in time to the birth of our solar system to examine whether the key to our planet's existence might have been the explosive shockwave of an ancient supernova. Meet a chemist who has yielded a new kind of "recipe" for natural processes to assemble and create the building blocks of life. And see how the head louse, a creepy critter that's been sucking our blood for millions of years, is offering clues about our evolution. Finally, meet neuroscientist André Fenton, who is looking into erasing painful memories with an injection.


    September 30, 2013 at 5:08 pm |
  10. bostontola

    Ok, now can we agree that there has been life on earth for more than a billion years?

    September 30, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
    • Atheist

      That is a Catholic priest's (Georges Lemaître) understanding.

      September 30, 2013 at 5:04 pm |
    • Three billion

      3 billion years. primitive life that produced oxygen, but you have to start somewhere.

      September 30, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • OKfine

      I have always wondered why more was not made of the fact that simple life forms exist at volcanic vents in the deep oceans. No requirement for the influence of the sun; this could have been what happened very early in the life of the earth.

      September 30, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
      • Bill Deacon

        'Wisdom is not only to perceive the natural consequence of things, but also to accept as our due the malice of those who wrong us. People who go no further than the first kind of wisdom become proud, whereas those who attain the second become humble.'

        St. Mark the Ascetic

        September 30, 2013 at 5:48 pm |
        • OKfine

          Not having an original thought of ones own is the first sign that we have them by the short hairs.
          St. Gotya the Proselytizer

          September 30, 2013 at 6:07 pm |
      • Cpt. Obvious

        The last I heard, deep oceanic vent abiogenesis was being seriously considered by all those in the know. I think that within the scientific community, the strongest contenders for "how life arose on earth" are the vents and extraterrestrial.

        September 30, 2013 at 5:54 pm |
  11. bostontola

    Ok, now can we agree that the science of genetics and DNA is on firm ground?

    September 30, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      It works for me.

      September 30, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
  12. Bill Deacon

    'Here is the difference between the joys of the world and the cross of Jesus Christ: after having tasted the first, one is disgusted with them; and on the contrary, the more one partakes of the cross, the greater the thirst for it.'

    St. Ignatius of Loyola

    September 30, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • sam stone

      Gosh durn, Billy Boy, them quotes sure is convincin'

      September 30, 2013 at 4:20 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Do you recommend a cat-o-nine-tails or a simple whip for self-flagellation for those who wish to experience enough pain and agony to merit the kiss of Christ?

      September 30, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
      • Tom, Tom, the Other One

        My dental hygienist can inflict pain in a way no Roman soldier ever could. I cried real tears begging for the mercy of Christ, but it never came. Just a fluoride rinse when she got tired of toying with me.

        September 30, 2013 at 5:04 pm |
        • Commenter

          Tom, Tom,

          Gee, thanks for the reminder - I have that sort of appointment tomorrow!

          Hint: Next time, try taking some Tylenol or something before you go... it doesn't take all of the torture away, but maybe helps a little.

          September 30, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
    • Alias

      So St. Ignatius of Loyola was wrong a lot.
      What exactly is the point you are trying to make?

      September 30, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • OKfine

      BD, sh!t, make up your mind we are all wretched fallen sinners or saints, which is it? You keep quoting this lot of people that believe they had to confess and seek redemption. Look at me, look at me, I have never sinned, I couldn't, I do not believe in the religious concept of sin. Would you not rather send your donations to a modern cheap hustler like me than Peters Pence to some phony Vatican pope?

      September 30, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
      • Bill Deacon

        'The reason why the lukewarm run so great a risk of being lost is because tepidity conceals from the soul the immense evil which it causes.'

        St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

        September 30, 2013 at 5:41 pm |
        • OKfine

          If an Islam martyr gets his 72 virgins, how many boys does a pedophile priest get when he enters heaven?
          St. Fondler the Inquisitive

          September 30, 2013 at 6:13 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      “What seems to me white, I will believe black if the hierarchical Church so defines.”
      ― St. Ignatius of Loyola

      Pretty much sums you up, eh Bill?

      September 30, 2013 at 4:27 pm |
      • S-3B Viking

        "Today, people are more persuaded than ever that they have perfect freedom, but they have brought their freedom to us and laid it humbly at our feet."

        -The Grand Inquisitor in his soliloquy to Jesus (or who the real Bill is)

        September 30, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
      • bostontola

        I thought your post was a joke, I looked it up and it is real. Holy smokes!

        September 30, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
      • OKfine

        Good one Doc. Bill the obedient Deacon. Bill actually thinks that the RCC does not believe in slavery and yet his fanatic belief in the catechism and dogma make him just that a slave. The women in the church even have it worse than Billy boy.

        September 30, 2013 at 4:45 pm |
      • S-3B Viking

        and for the Protestant....take away "the Church" and their infilling of the Holy Spirit and their status as "a royal priesthood" combined with the "inerrancy" of scripture...

        and the quote applies to them.

        September 30, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
      • Bill Deacon

        Whew, good thing they got that black and white thing correct. Close one!

        September 30, 2013 at 5:43 pm |
        • OKfine

          You are a fool an unrepentant, fool, that believes in magic.
          St Bill the Inmate.

          September 30, 2013 at 5:59 pm |
    • doobzz

      LOL @ Boof Deacon!

      It's Monday, and Boof isn't at his best on Mondays. So he quotes a bipolar attention whore instead of his usual Catholic babbling.

      September 30, 2013 at 7:10 pm |
  13. bostontola

    Ok, let's put evolution aside for a minute, can we agree that the earth is billions of years old?

    September 30, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • Lycidas

      I think most people agree on that.

      September 30, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
      • bostontola

        Thanks, but most people in the developed world agree that evolution is how life diversified on earth, we're not talking about most people.

        September 30, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
      • Just the Facts Ma'am...

        Topher and the other young earth creationists do not. One would think that groups like the flat earth society or the young earth creationists shouldn't exist in the face of all the evidence, but for some reason they still persist.

        September 30, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Ancient oxygen discovery shakes up history of life on Earthhttp://ca.news.yahoo.com/ancient-oxygen-discovery-shakes-history-life-earth-

      September 30, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      If the earth is billions of years old, the claim that a 2,000 year old book is ancient and irrelevant isn't really accurate is it?

      September 30, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
      • bostontola

        Does that mean you agree that the earth is billions of years old?

        September 30, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Bill is a Catholic and for all of their many faults and weird beliefs, they are not Young Earth Creationists, nor Biblical literalists.

          September 30, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
      • ME II

        @Bill Deacon,
        What relevance does one have with the other?

        September 30, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        On a geological time scale, 2000 years is just a blip.
        On a socio-political time scale, it is an eternity.
        Do you think the Code of Hammurabi is still relevant?

        September 30, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
        • Bill Deacon

          I would say it is still foundational

          September 30, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
  14. Bill Deacon

    'Ask Jesus to make you a saint. After all, only He can do that. Go to confession regularly and to Communion as often as you can.'

    St. Dominic Savio

    September 30, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      why post a quote from a Christian?

      Using the words of someone in the same cult as you, who is just as deluded as you, to prove your point is hilarious!

      September 30, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
      • Lycidas

        Atheists do it much of the time too....pitiful all around.

        September 30, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          What cult beliefs do atheists share, Ly?

          September 30, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
        • Lycidas

          This odd need to evangelize others to their way of thinking seems to be one.

          September 30, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          It is not really evangelizing, it is more like a the average persons response when faced with a giant canvas completely painted black with one white dot in the middle and informed that this is high art and worth hundreds of millions of dollars... "Um, this is just a black canvas with a white dot..." to which the gallery owner says "Oh, no no no, you see this is a work from a famous artist that everyone is talking about!!"

          Atheists don't see the substance of the believers argument and no amount of verbal acrobatics or charm is going to get them to buy your million dollar dot or to even stop them from pointing out how moronic it would be for someone to buy that thing on faith alone.

          September 30, 2013 at 6:35 pm |
        • Lycidas

          "It is not really evangelizing,"

          Sure it is. They come on here and spout off what they feel is right, tell everyone that doesn't agree they are wrong and that they should think like they do.

          "your million dollar dot"

          Projecting aren't we?

          September 30, 2013 at 8:18 pm |
      • Bill Deacon

        What does originality have to do with correctness?

        September 30, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
        • ME II

          Who says it's either?

          September 30, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
      • Atheist

        You've got to prove it to doG!

        September 30, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
    • doobzz

      "But I don't wanna be a pirate!"

      – Jerry the Seinfeld

      September 30, 2013 at 7:14 pm |
  15. Lionly Lamb


    September 30, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
  16. OKfine

    Just a thought. It seems to me that when the likes of Live4Him, Topher, Lawrence of Arabia, Bill Deacon, et al, hit a rough patch and cannot come up with any new BS to answer questions put to them, they take a break to spend an hour or so on their knees begging for guidance or as an alternative searching the apologist web sights for divine inspiration. In BD's case it may also include some self flagellation, he gets off on suffering and punishment leading to redemption, it is his new addiction.

    September 30, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
    • S-3B Viking

      They miss their spokesperson....Chad

      September 30, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
      • OKfine

        My mind and soul (make that soles, I don't want to get Topher more confused than he already is) recoil at the mere mention of the Chad.

        September 30, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
        • S-3B Viking

          Does anyone know what happned to him or is he just another name change...?

          September 30, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
        • I wonder

          Chad disappeared about the same time that this new co-editor took over. I can't imagine that Chad was banned like a few others were, but it is odd...

          I wonder if the current co-editor ever posted here before he was hired?

          September 30, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
        • S-3B Viking


          September 30, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
      • OKfine

        Exorcism would not be out of the question or he may have read another book besides the bible!

        September 30, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • sam stone

      i wonder how many of these prophets found jeebus at the bottom of a bottle?

      it makes sense that they would exchange one addiction for another

      September 30, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      'We must needs occasionally relax the mind, and the body requires some recreation also. Cassian relates how St. John the Evangelist was found by a certain hunter amusing himself by caressing a partridge, which sat upon his wrist. The hunter asked how a man of his mental powers could find time for so trifling an occupation. In reply, St. John asked why he did not always carry his bow strung? The man answered, Because, if always bent, the bow would lose its spring when really wanted. "Do not marvel then," the Apostle replied, "if I slacken my mental efforts from time to time, and recreate myself, in order to return more vigorously to contemplation." It is a great mistake to be so strict as to grudge any recreation either to others or one's self.'

      St. Francis de Sales

      September 30, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
      • OKfine

        BD. What is that about the fourth time you have cut, paste and posted a quote by someone as deluded as you are? The trash from the saints is that like from a Marvel comic book?

        September 30, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
        • Bill Deacon

          'Experience shows that men given to carnal sins are converted sooner than those who are given to avarice.'

          St. Philip Neri

          September 30, 2013 at 5:45 pm |
      • OKfine

        Those that need to feel forgiveness and redemption by self loathing and suffering are the most loved by a loving god!
        Almost a St.Theresa the B!tch

        September 30, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
  17. bostontola

    Why does an ostrich have wings?

    September 30, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Perhaps one of these:

      1) God is in the process of granting its wish for flight
      2) The Fall of Man brought down much of God's Creation
      3) Satan was given power over many species tin order to bolster the confusion that is evolution
      4) For balance
      5) For self-defense
      6) For use in courtship and/or copulation

      September 30, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
      • OKfine

        7) Noah got pi$$ed at them flying all over the ark and clipped their wings to lessen the mayhem, or not.

        September 30, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
      • S-3B Viking

        I knew Frank Capra got it wrong...JuJu should have said: "Every time a bell rings an ostrich gets its wings..."

        September 30, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
      • ME II

        9) for use in secret semaphore language.

        September 30, 2013 at 5:02 pm |
    • Lycidas

      "Why does an ostrich have wings?"

      So they can do the chicken dance.

      September 30, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
      • OKfine

        Of course. Takes about 3 and a half hours to get a soft boiled Ostrich egg, not exactly your quick breakfast.

        September 30, 2013 at 4:35 pm |
    • PC1

      The wings help with balance, especially when the bird runs.

      September 30, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
      • OKfine

        Buffalo Style ostrich wings are restricted to one wing per order, in short supply, will feed six.

        September 30, 2013 at 6:24 pm |
  18. palintwit

    Teabaggers take note...

    "Steve Schmidt, the political adviser who suggested that John McCain choose a fresh new face from Alaska as his running mate, now says he has “deep regret” for his role in helping to bring on the “freak show that’s been running wild for four years” in American politics."

    September 30, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
  19. Colin

    Live4Him, Topher:

    Here are a few reasons why evolution is taught in EVERY university in the World that has a biology course and why the theory that the World began less than ten thousand years ago with a talking snake, as written in Genesis is taught in – Zero.

    First and most obviously is the fossil record. The fossil record is much, much more than just dinosaurs. Indeed, dinosaurs only get the press because of their size, but they make up less than 1% of the entire fossil record. Life had been evolving on Earth for over 3 thousand million years before dinosaurs evolved and has gone on evolving for 65 million years after the Chicxulub meteor likely wiped them out.

    The fossil record includes the Stromatolites, colonies of prokaryotic bacteria, that range in age going back to about 3 billion years, the Ediacara fossils from South Australia, widely regarded as among the earliest multi-celled organisms, the Cambrian species of the Burgess shale in Canada (circa – 450 million years ago) the giant scorpions of the Silurian Period, the giant, wingless insects of the Devonian period, the insects, amphibians, reptiles, fishes, clams, crustaceans of the Carboniferous Period, the many precursors to the dinosaurs, the 700 odd known species of dinosaurs themselves, the subsequent dominant mammals, including the saber tooth tiger, the mammoths and hairy rhinoceros of North America and Asia, the fossils of early man in Africa and the Neanderthals of Europe.

    The fossil record shows a consistent and worldwide evolution of life on Earth dating back to about 3,500,000,000 years ago. There are literally millions of fossils that have been recovered, of thousands of different species and they are all located where they would be in the geological record if life evolved slowly over billions of years. None of them can be explained by a 6,000 year old Earth and Noah’s flood. Were they all on the ark? What happened to them when it docked?

    A Tyrannosaurus Rex ate a lot of food – meat- which means its food would itself have to have been fed, like the food of every other carnivore on the ark for the entire 360 odd days Noah supposedly spent on the ark. T-Rex was not even the largest carnivorous dinosaur we know of. Spinosaurus, Argentinosaurus and Carcharodontosaurus were all larger and ate more even meat. Even they were not large enough to bring down the largest sauropods we know of, many species of which weighed in at close to 100 tons and were about 100 feet long. A bit of “back of the envelope” math quickly shows that “Noah’s Ark” would actually have to have been an armada of ships larger than the D-Day invasion force, manned by thousands and thousands of people – and this is without including the World’s 300,000 current species of plants, none of which could walk merrily in twos onto the ark.

    Then, of course, there are the various races of human beings. There were no Sub-Saharan Africans, Chinese, Australian Aboriginals, blonde haired Scandinavians, Pygmies or Eskimos on the Ark. Where did they come from?

    Second, there are those little things we call oil, natural gas and other fossil fuels. Their mere existence is another independent and fatal blow to the creationists. Speak to any geologist who works for Exxon Mobil, Shell or any of the thousands of mining, oil or natural gas related companies that make a living finding fossil fuels. They will tell you these fossil fuels take millions of years to develop from the remains of large, often Carboniferous Period forests, in the case of coal, or tiny marine creatures in the case of oil. For the fossils to develop into oil or coal takes tens or hundreds of millions of years of “slow baking” under optimum geological conditions. That’s why they are called “fossil fuels.” Have a close look at coal, you can often see the fossilized leaves in it. The geologists know exactly what rocks to look for fossil fuels in, because they know how to date the rocks to tens or hundreds of millions of years ago. Creationists have no credible explanation for this.

    Third, most of astronomy and cosmology would be wrong if the creationists were right. In short, as Einstein showed, light travels at a set speed. Space is so large that light from distant stars takes many years to reach the Earth. In some cases, this is millions or billions of years. The fact that we can see light from such far away stars means it began its journey billions of years ago. The Universe must be billions of years old. We can currently see galaxies whose light left home 13, 700,000,000 years ago. Indeed, on a clear night, one can see the collective, misty light of many stars more than 6,000 light years away with the naked eye, shining down like tiny accusatorial witnesses against the nonsense of creationism.

    Fourth, we have not just carbon dating, but also all other methods used by scientists to date wood, rocks, fossils, and other artifacts. These comprehensively disprove the Bible’s claims. They include uranium-lead dating, potassium-argon dating as well as other non-radioactive methods such as pollen dating, dendrochronology and ice core dating. In order for any particular rock, fossil or other artifact to be aged, generally two or more samples are dated independently by two or more laboratories in order to ensure an accurate result. If results were random, as creationists claim, the two independent results would rarely agree. They generally do. They regularly reveal ages much older than Genesis. Indeed, the Earth is about 750,000 times older than the Bible claims, the Universe about three times the age of the Earth.

    Fifth, the relatively new field of DNA mapping not only convicts criminals, it shows in undeniable, full detail how we differ from other life forms on the planet. For example, about 98.4% of human DNA is identical to that of chimpanzees, about 97% of human DNA is identical to that of gorillas, and slightly less again of human DNA is identical to the DNA of monkeys. This gradual divergence in DNA can only be rationally explained by the two species diverging from a common ancestor, and coincides perfectly with the fossil record. Indeed, scientists can use the percentage of DNA that two animal share (such as humans and bears, or domestic dogs and wolves) to get an idea of how long ago the last common ancestor of both species lived. It perfectly corroborates the fossil record and is completely independently developed.

    Sixth, the entire field of historical linguistics would have to be rewritten to accommodate the Bible. This discipline studies how languages develop and diverge over time. For example, Spanish and Italian are very similar and have a recent common “ancestor” language, Latin, as most people know. However, Russian is quite different and therefore either did not share a common root, or branched off much earlier in time. No respected linguist anywhere in the World traces languages back to the Tower of Babel, the creationists’ simplistic and patently absurd explanation for different languages. Indeed, American Indians, Australian Aboriginals, “true” Indians, Chinese, Mongols, Ja.panese, Sub-Saharan Africans and the Celts and other tribes of ancient Europe were speaking thousands of different languages thousands of years before the date creationist say the Tower of Babel occurred – and even well before the date they claim for the Garden of Eden.

    Seventh, lactose intolerance is also a clear vestige of human evolution. Most mammals only consume milk as infants. After infancy, they no longer produce the enzyme “lactase” that digests the lactose in milk and so become lactose intolerant. Humans are an exception and can drink milk as adults – but not all humans – some humans remain lactose intolerant. So which humans are no longer lactose intolerant? The answer is those who evolved over the past few thousand years raising cows. They evolved slightly to keep producing lactase as adults so as to allow the consumption of milk as adults. This includes most Europeans and some Africans, notably the Tutsi of Rwanda. On the other hand, most Chinese, native Americans and Aboriginal Australians, whose ancestors did not raise cattle, remain lactose intolerant.

    I could go on and elaborate on a number of other disciplines or facts that creationists have to pretend into oblivion to retain their faith, including the Ice Ages, cavemen and early hominids, much of microbiology, paleontology and archeology, continental drift and plate tectonics. Even large parts of medical research would be rendered unusable but for the fact that monkeys and mice share a common ancestor with us and therefore our fundamental cell biology and basic body architecture is identical to theirs.

    In short, and not surprisingly, the World’s most gifted evolutionary biologists, astronomers, cosmologists, geologists, archeologists, paleontologists, historians, modern medical researchers and linguists (and about 2,000 years of accu.mulated knowledge) are right and a handful of Iron Age Middle Eastern goat herders copying then extant mythology were wrong. Creationists aren’t just trying to swim upstream against the weight of scientific evidence; they are trying to ascend a waterfall.

    September 30, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • Copy/pasters are so unoriginal


      September 30, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
      • Colin

        I agree, which is why I took the time to write this.

        September 30, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
        • Sure you did Colin....sure you did

          Aren't you a good wittle copy/paster Colin? Sure you wrote the original. HAHA.

          September 30, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          @Sure you did – Please either subit the reference to where you claim Colin stole this or go back to your corner with your dunce cap on.

          @Colin – well said and well thought out, love to read your posts and can tell from your writing style this was all you.

          September 30, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
        • Anon

          @Just the Facts Ma'am...- Now now, Colin can just put on his big boy pants and provide his original source. I doubt it means that much to him to do such a thing. But I really doubt he needs you to defend him in any way so perhaps you should mind your own business if you have nothing to add to this.

          September 30, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          @Anon – i'm pretty sure Colins source is a little thing called "an education" which may sound foreign to the bible belt crowd but it isn't a french word that means "Uppity" as they often believe.

          September 30, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
        • Anon

          "i'm pretty sure Colins source is a little thing called "an education""

          You keep to that faith.

          "which may sound foreign to the bible belt crowd"

          Perhaps it does, perhaps it doesn't. I wouldn't know...do you?

          September 30, 2013 at 6:03 pm |
        • Colin

          Just the facts, maam – thank you and yes, I did write every word.

          Anon – yo usaid, "Now now, Colin can just put on his big boy pants and provide his original source." Can you not read? I just said I wrote it. There is no "original source." If you had any experience with this blog you would know that I have posted it before.

          September 30, 2013 at 11:24 pm |
        • Anon

          "If you had any experience with this blog you would know that I have posted it before."

          Posting it before does not mean you wrote it originally.

          October 1, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
      • S-3B Viking

        I guess he schooled you...now wipe the saliva off your chin.

        September 30, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
      • bostontola

        What does originality have to do with correctness?

        September 30, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
        • Anon

          I don't think it's originality that's in question as much as purpose. Colin is behaving no better than Reality or any other copy/paster and throwing up random stuff that has little if anything to do with the content of the article in question. Like the proverbial monkey, he is throwing crap around and seeing what sticks.

          September 30, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
        • Reality # 2

          As a good student, you have read the reiterations of the "fems" (flaws, muck and stench) of religion. Therefore the seeds have been planted in rich soil. Go therefore and preach the truth to all nations, reiterating as you go amongst the lost, bred, born and brainwashed souls of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism as Rational Thinking makes its triumphant return all because of you!!!!

          September 30, 2013 at 4:45 pm |
        • Anon

          See...another prime example thanks to Reality. Throw random crap out there that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and see what happens.

          September 30, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
        • Colin

          bostontola's point is correct, originality has nothing to do with correctness. The fact is, I wrote it, and that can easilly be tested. Copy a chunk of it and google it, you won'rt find it anywhere else – but all this is beside the point. Not one creationist – Topher, Anon or Live4him has refuted what I said.

          This is why they revert to personal attacks, they have no answer to the substantive points.

          September 30, 2013 at 11:15 pm |
        • Anon

          What is the point? The blog is about the Popes and you are ranting about creationists.

          October 1, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      thanks Colin. Well done.

      September 30, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
      • Athy

        Very well done, Colin. Hopefully It doesn't exceed the limited attention span of Topher, Anon, Liv4Him and the other religies. It'll obviously exceed their mental abilities, but that's almost impossible to avoid.

        October 1, 2013 at 12:28 am |
    • Robert Brown


      September 30, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
    • lol??

      Colonitis sayz,

      "..................theory that the World began less than ten thousand years ago ................"

      Where is THAT in scripture??

      October 1, 2013 at 12:47 am |
    • lol??

      Instant replay needed for Piltdown man. wiki sayz,

      "...........The fossil was introduced as evidence by Clarence Darrow in defense of John Scopes during the 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial. Darrow died in 1938, fifteen years before Piltdown Man was exposed as a fraud................"

      October 1, 2013 at 1:18 am |
  20. Dyslexic doG

    if god made man first, why did he give him ni.ppl.es?

    September 30, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      The first man needed something to amuse himself with.

      September 30, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • S-3B Viking


      The Creation Research Insti.tute featuring Micheal Behe are coming out with a peer reviewed paper on that any day now...lol

      September 30, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • Just the Facts Ma'am...

      Not many Christians know anything about vestigial organs, or at least they ignore them if they do. It makes their brains hurt. Maybe the brain will someday completely become a vestigial organ for the religious... at the moment they are already half way there.

      September 30, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
      • S-3B Viking


        You know God doesn't make mistakes...The Holy Spirit just lost track on the placement of the recurrent laryngeal nerve when designing the giraffe....Jesus blamed it on the nephalim and seraphim

        September 30, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        Zoologists have noted that giraffes routinely engage in ho/mose.xual activity (like 9 times out of 10).
        Those long necked bast/ards are obviously designed by Satan and therefore not a valid specimen of Godly Creationism.

        September 30, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
        • S-3B Viking

          Noah actually had two males on board as the rains began...when he found them doing the 'Adam and Steve' he had to get God to open the door and he pushed the bottom out....

          Shem and Ham took the skiff and found a female just before the flood waters reached neck high...as giraffe's measure it...

          September 30, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
    • OKfine

      Another similar question. If God was going to get his "chosen" people to lop off their foreskins, why give them one in the first place?

      September 30, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
      • S-3B Viking

        If you consider Bill Deacon's theology (and that of his Church) he would say:

        "...suffering is the pathway to peace"

        Bill's ideology from page 1 of this article's comments.

        September 30, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
1 2 3 4 5
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.