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October 7th, 2013
12:31 PM ET
Scalia says atheism 'favors the devil's desires'By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-editor [twitter-follow screen_name='BurkeCNN'] (CNN) - As the Supreme Court begins its new term Monday, the devil is not on the docket - but the Evil One apparently is on the mind of Justice Antonin Scalia. New York magazine has published a fascinating new interview with Scalia in which the outspoken jurist tackled a number of topics. But none seemed to surprise Scalia's interviewer, Jennifer Senior, more than his views on Satan. The interview was conducted on September 26, the 27th anniversary of Scalia's swearing-in as a justice on the high court. He is one of a record six Catholic justices on the Supreme Court. After Scalia and Senior discussed heaven and hell (he believes in them; she doesn't), the justice said in a stage whisper, "I even believe in the devil." "You do?" Senior replied. "Of course! Yeah, he’s a real person. Hey, come on, that’s standard Catholic doctrine! Every Catholic believes that," Scalia said. Senior asked Scalia if he's seen evidence of Satan's work recently. "You know, it is curious," Scalia answered. "In the Gospels, the devil is doing all sorts of things. He’s making pigs run off cliffs, he’s possessing people and whatnot. And that doesn’t happen very much anymore. ... It’s because he’s smart." MORE FROM CNN: How to argue about religion online Senior asked if it's "frightening" to believe in the devil, which seemed to annoy Scalia. "You’re looking at me as though I’m weird," he answered. "My God! Are you so out of touch with most of America, most of which believes in the devil? I mean, Jesus Christ believed in the devil! It’s in the Gospels! You travel in circles that are so, so removed from mainstream America that you are appalled that anybody would believe in the devil! Most of mankind has believed in the devil, for all of history. Many more intelligent people than you or me have believed in the devil." Scalia, whose son, Paul, is a Catholic priest in Arlington, Virginia, also said Pope Francis is "absolutely" right about the church needing to concentrate more on mercy and outreach than on fighting the culture wars. MORE FROM CNN: American Catholics agree with Pope Francis on ending culture wars "But he hasn’t backed off the view of the church on those issues," Scalia said. "He’s just saying, 'Don’t spend all our time talking about that stuff. Talk about Jesus Christ and evangelize.' I think there’s no indication whatever that he’s changing doctrinally." Finally, Scalia said he has not "softened" his views on homosexuality. "I still think it’s Catholic teaching that it’s wrong. OK? But I don’t hate the people that engage in it. In my legal opinions, all I’ve said is that I don’t think the Constitution requires the people to adopt one view or the other," Scalia said. MORE FROM CNN: Church and state, executive power on Supreme Court docket soundoff (3,730 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgXbXLJUHUA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW1kvmSFQWE
I just reread all my comments on this blog and I just can't understand why so many intelligent people are hating on me 🙁 Where is my god now? OH WOE IS ME...
gotta go...but I did learn from reading these comments why the god of Abraham is no longer around, performing miracles, exorcising demons, stopping mass swine suicides etc..........ANSWER. God is in Hell. Yes you read it right. How could he not be? He isn't here and he massively broke one of his orders, thou shalteth noteth stealeth. His bible book is completely plagiarized, how did he think he wouldn't get busted??!! Maybe no so Omnipotent after all......hmmmmm
God is in Hell for plagiarizing his own holy book huh?
Interesting...
Can one of the Christ Followers answer this?
...or a Jew, Muslim, or even a polytheist.....thanks.
God may be magic, but at least its good magic.
Hello T. You are incorrect, if there is a god, it is very definitely not doing good magic.
Wait, you are not Topher. Trolls and Thieves!
kind of like saying that I am not God.
If a Human believes devoutly enough.....does something not happen?
Were you Topher all along?
Genocide, infanticide – heck even Unicide!
That's good magic!
"unicide"?? So THAT'S what happened to the unicorns!
Scalia is a cretin, and religion doesn't belong in government anyway.
This business about the devil is bunk from the Middle Ages. They seized on "Paradise Lost" and "Dante's Inferno" and stupidly preach them in churches as fact.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say anything about Lucifer and Satan being the same person. The story of Lucifer, and his being a former angel who was cast out of heaven for pride, is nowhere in the Bible, either. It's in "Paradise Lost." Proof that many Christians don't really know what they're talking about, either. They hear it from their pastor, and decide it must be true. FALSE.
Revelation 12
Slavery:
Leviticus 25:44
Exodus 21:2, 21:7, 21:20
Ephesians 6:5
1 Timothy 6:1
Misogyny:
1 Corinthians 13:34
Ecclesiaticus 25:19 (Catholic)
1 Timothy 2:11
1 Corinthians 14:35
Isaiah 3:18
Beating \ Killing Your Children:
Proverbs 13:24
Proverbs 22:15
Proverbs 29:15
Proverbs 23:13
Proverbs 30:17
Deuteronomy 21:18
But it could be worse.
God could have you eat your children like in:
Leviticus 26:29
Deuteronomy 28:53
Jeremiah 19:9
I like how whenever I make a list, it gets re-posted by other folk. 😉
I get special warm and tinglies when people like Colin expand on them to make better points than I did.
Thanks Doc, in fact I need to be more diligent in acknowledging you. I use your list of gods quite often.
I think I got this from one of you...
Why might atheists think believers are a little thick. Hmmmm, let's see......
Q.1 The completely absurd theory that all 7,000,000,000 human beings on the planet are simultaneously being supervised 24 hours a day, every day of their lives by an immortal, invisible being for the purposes of reward or punishment in an “afterlife” comes from the field of:
(a) Astronomy;
(b) Cosmology;
(c) Psychology; or
(d) Judaism, Christianity and Islam
Q. 2 What is the only thing capable of making 40% of the country utterly stupid enough to think the entire Universe began less than 10,000 years ago with one man, one woman and a talking snake:
(a) paleontology
(b) archeology
(c) biology; or
(d) Judaism, Christianity or Islam
Q. 3 Please complete the following sentence. It is not uncommon in many parts of the World for a young man to strap a suicide vest to himself and blow himself up and members of a rival __________
(i) corporation
(ii) university
(iii) research insti.tute; or
(iv) church?
Q. 4 It is only acceptable as an adult to believe Bronze Age mythology like talking snakes, the Red Sea splitting, mana falling from the sky, a man living in a whale's belly, a talking donkey, superhuman strength, a man rising from the dead and angels, ghosts, gods and demons in the field of:
(a) history
(b) literature
(c) anthropology
(d) religion
Q.5 I have convinced myself that gay $ex is a choice and not genetic, but then have no explanation as to why only gay people have ho.mo$exual urges. I am being obstinate and closed minded due to my:
(a) hetero$exuality
(b) genetics
(c) nationality; or
(d) religion.
Q6. I honestly believe that, when I think silent thoughts like, “please god, help me pass my exam tomorrow,” some invisible being is reading my mind and will intervene and alter what would otherwise be the course of history in small ways to help me. I am
(a) a delusional schizophrenic;
(b) a naïve child, too young to know that that is silly
(c) an ignorant farmer from Sudan who never had the benefit of even a fifth grade education; or
(d) your average Christian, Muslim or Jew who believes that prayers are answered
Q7. Millions and millions of Catholics believe that bread and wine turns into the actual flesh and blood of a dead Jew from 2,000 years ago because:
(a) there are obvious visible changes in the condiments after the Catholic priest does his hocus pocus;
(b) tests have confirmed a divine presence in the bread and wine;
(c) now and then their god shows up and confirms this story; or
(d) their religious convictions tell them to blindly accept this completely fvcking absurd nonsense.
Q.8 The only discipline known to often cause people to kill others they have never met and/or to commit suicide in its furtherance is:
(a) Architecture;
(b) Philosophy;
(c) Archeology; or
(d) Religion
Q.9 What is it that most differentiates science and all other intellectual disciplines from religion:
(a) Religion tells people not only what they should believe, but what they MUST believe under threat of “burning in hell” or other of divine retribution, whereas science, economics, medicine etc. has no “sacred cows” in terms of doctrine and go where the evidence leads them;
(b) Religion can make a statement, such as “God is comprised of God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit”, and be totally immune from experimentation and challenge, whereas science can only make factual
assertions when supported by considerable evidence;
(c) Science and the scientific method is universal and consistent all over the World whereas all religion is regional and a person’s religion, no matter how deeply held, is clearly nothing more than a matter of upbringing;
or
(d) All of the above.
Q.10 If I am found wandering the streets flagellating myself, wading into a filth river, mutilating my child’s genitals or kneeling down in a church believing that a being is somehow reading my inner thoughts and prayers, I am likely driven by:
(a) a deep psychiatric issue;
(b) an irrational fear or phobia;
(c) a severe mental degeneration caused by years of drug abuse; or
(d) my religious belief.
Q.11 Who am I? I don’t pay any taxes. I never have. Any money my organization earns is tax free at the federal, state and local level. Despite contributing nothing to society, but still enjoying all its benefits, I feel I have the
right to tell others what to do. I am
(a) A sleazy Wall Street banker
(b) the mafia
(c) A drug pusher; or
(d) any given religious organization
Q. 12 I believe that an all-knowing being, powerful enough to create the entire cosmos and its billions of galaxies, watches me have $ex to make sure I don't do anything "naughty" (like protect myself from disease with a condom, for example). I am
(a) A victim of child molestation
(b) A r.ape victim trying to recover
(c) A mental patient with paranoid delusions; or
(d) A regular Christian, Jew or Muslim following my religious belief
In short, nothing in history of human endeavor can make otherwise smart, functioning people believe the most implausible of supernatural absurdities the way religion can.
Yep, that quiz is mine.
Revolution #9
you know not what you say.
what makes you say that?
Malt does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to Man.
I was feeling lost and heart sick, but the church only made it worse. Depressing. The pastor didn't understand my love, so how can he understand the Lord? He doesn't even understand me. I realized it was all a lie when that happened, and went on to prove it by visiting no less then 30 different churches of various denominations. Not a single preacher could handle a simple question of the heart. What does that tell you?
Why do you trust the pastor and not the Lord? Pastors are human beings are not infallible beings.
Because God does not exist. This is a parable.
I was really just upset about the game, but they could have had some sympathy. Church on Sunday, what a crock.
Because the "Lord" doesn't answer back either.
Don't feel bad. There is no lord, no soul, no after life. BUT THAT'S OKAY 🙂 Just be well, be good, and don't fear unknowable metaphysics (that are most likely hogwash anyway)
What was the question?
Cards or Rays?
Huh?
Seriously, what was the question of the heart that 30 pastors could not answer?
Ok fine, the question was, "Is it wrong to feel hatred in your heart for Jets fan but not engage in violence?"
Not one of them could help me with that.
Seriously???
Matthew 5:21-22 – “You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
1 John 3:15 – Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Whoa there Larry, nobody said anything about murder...
What was your question?
The question was, "Is it wrong to feel hatred in your heart for Jets fan but not engage in violence?"
Jets fan naturally should be beaten and kicked. Is it ok with the Lord if I don't, or will I go to hell?
AB. Joe Namath say only if they have lost more games than they won, right now they are untouchable but wait for a few more weeks.
I have yet to receive a meaningful answer and live in fear.
Christianity A to Z
John 3:16,17
“16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”
Ephesians 2:8,9
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
Slavery:
Leviticus 25:44
Exodus 21:2, 21:7, 21:20
Ephesians 6:5
1 Timothy 6:1
Misogyny:
1 Corinthians 13:34
Ecclesiaticus 25:19 (Catholic)
1 Timothy 2:11
1 Corinthians 14:35
Isaiah 3:18
Beating \ Killing Your Children:
Proverbs 13:24
Proverbs 22:15
Proverbs 29:15
Proverbs 23:13
Proverbs 30:17
Deuteronomy 21:18
But it could be worse.
God could have you eat your children like in:
Leviticus 26:29
Deuteronomy 28:53
Jeremiah 19:9
K-Town
He could smell her from his position, directly downwind of the Santa Ana’s, the putrid air-born tendril of urine and body odor makes a formidable weapon. Her socks, slung over the tops of her borrowed Converse flaps. Here teeth only a reminder of public service announcements. The hair was everywhere. Not untidy exactly, just….everywhere. Like a blanket over her. She had a pleasing form though. Hard not to look twice. So hard in fact, many had made her their project. Each had failed. For her the addiction was her destiny and would lead to her death. But not today.
Joe Skinner rarely looked up when he was walking in L.A. Nobody on these streets needed directions or knew where any stars lived. This was Korea Town, the crossroads where Heaven and Hell conduct their business. It was different now. The riots broke the peace and historians were quick to point out that Korea Town was marginalized during the Rodney King Riots of 1992 and it was happening again. Neighborly “hellos” became tense and less friendly. If you want someone to get your back, stay in your part of town. And don’t bother calling 911.
Joe called 911. The voice on the other end of his “iMate” spoke in hushed tones. Joe laughed. He knew they would have to follow up on any call. If Ryerson shows up, He’s dead. Joe still had friends everywhere in the eight block neighborhood of K-Town. He walked without being disturbed, but only because he understood protocol. K-Town in 2033 was not only unsafe, it was anarchy and there were untouchables.
That is when he saw it. A photograph. Hard to see in the wet gutter, but the man in the image was beautiful. Long flowing hair that wasn’t messy but practically covered his whole upper section. Skinner reached for it. It sizzled in his fingers and glowed. This was Jesus and he was come unto the Earth to save humans at long last.
Joe on the other hand really wanted to get baked before work and needed a paper and Jesus was handy. It was wet but they had one of those electric 2025 hand dryers in the rest room of the filling station he stood next to. He blazed, and soon saw Jesus once again. This time Jesus stood before him saying, “I brought unto you a miracle and this is how you betray your lack of awe to the sight of me?
Joe thought a moment and finally looked at Jesus and said, “You crazy fuck, here, toke up bro!” The party lasted long into the night. Jesus got tore up and the moral of the story is that Marijuana should be legal in the United States.
Christianity gutted in a few easy steps:
God is omnipotent, omniscient, yet can only have ONE son?
God didn't GIVE his son – he lent him very temporarily, knowing full well that he would die, be dead for 3 days, come alive again then ascend to heaven to rejoin god. Hardly a gift.
The reason – I believe – that John 3:16 is written that was is because at the time that it was written, about the worst thing that a man could imagine was to have his line end. So, if your god gives up os ONLY son, that would be the ultimate sacrifice – in the eyes of a Bronze age male.
Why not a daughter? Because it wouldn't have played to the townies – who really didn't give a crap about women.
Just stop – for a second – and THINK.
Only begotten son? NO – not if god has the powers he is supposed to have. If he created the universe and everything in it, why can't he create more than one son.
The ultimate sacrifice? Hardly. God knew in advance. The temporary death of jesus was no sacrifice at all.
In situations like this a little theology is helpful. Jesus was with God from the beginning, there are several verses that tell us this important truth. A couple that come to mind are John 1:1, read it a replace the word "word" with Jesus. Also near the end of the first chapter of genesis God says let us make man in our image, notice the plurals. There are several more throughout the bible. The point being that the man Jesus that you think God could make at a whim was actually the second person of the trinity who came to earth in human form. He is irreplaceable and there is just one son of God. The sacrifice entailed many things but consider this, God the father had to turn his back on God the son in that moment that he took the sins of the world when he was on the cross.
Yeah, it sounds like a fallacy.
Why does god want to be the scape goat for humans? Doesn't he want them to be responsible beings? Does NOT compute.
Why did he create the devil knowing that the Lucifer would turn into the devil? Does NOT compute.
Why put Adam and Eve with the devil, if he again, would know what would happen? Does NOT compute.
Why does he even have to sacrifice himself to allow himself to forgive? Is he a masochist? Does NOT compute.
Why does it have to be a bloody death? Does NOT compute.
Do you even know what the word Crucifixion mean in those days?
God said he did it because he loves us. Which I guess leads to the question why would he love us? God created a being with free will knowing that some would love him and some who would not. Knowing the ones who do love him, do so only because he loved us first by making a way for us to be reconciled to him. Oh wait, I think I just answered my own question and yours too. He did it all because he is love.
Angels were created with freewill too, or at least some are, the devil for example.
The life is in the blood.
What would you like to tell me about crucifixion?
He gave His only begotten Son
---
Seems odd to me that a God so powerful as to have created this entire universe and all life within, could then only beget 1 son. I'd think he could have unlimited sons/daughters. There seem to be unlimited stars in the heavens, he created those didn't he?
It wasn't that He couldn't begat – it was that He only had the one virgin, those are hard to find.
Ever been on Reddit? That damn site is positively THICK with virgins
There are no gods in this universe, only men who act like devils.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VsZFiMo8TIc
Good tunes Lionly!
RIP Buddy Holly and Ritchie Valens
Whatever, Scalia. You see devils with pitchforks chasing pigs off cliffs, and you ride around in a limo with your nose in the air. Just another kook.
No matter how you dress it up, there are some fundamental difficulties with Christianity that are pretty hard to overcome.
1. At its most fundamental level, Christianity requires a belief that an all-knowing, all-powerful, immortal being created the entire Universe and its billions of galaxies 13,720,000,000 years ago (the age of the Universe) sat back and waited 10,000,000,000 years for the Earth to form, then waited another 3,720,000,000 years for human beings to gradually evolve, then, at some point gave them eternal life and sent its son to Earth to talk about sheep and goats in the Middle East.
While here, this divine visitor exhibits no knowledge of ANYTHING outside of the Iron Age Middle East, including the other continents, 99% of the human race, and the aforementioned galaxies.Either that, or it all started 6,000 years ago with one man, one woman and a talking snake. Either way “oh come on” just doesn’t quite capture it.
2. This ‘all loving’ god spends his time running the Universe and spying on the approximately 7 billion human beings on planet Earth 24 hours a day, seven days a week. He even reads their minds (or “hears their prayers”, if you see any difference) using some kind of magic telepathic powers. He also keeps his telepathic eye on them when they are not praying, so as to know if they think bad thoughts (such as coveting their neighbor) so he knows whether to reward or punish them after they die.
3. Having withheld any evidence of his existence, this god will then punish those who doubt him with an eternity burning in hell. I don’t have to kill, I don’t have to steal, I don’t even have to litter. All I have to do is harbor an honest, reasonable and rational disbelieve in the Christian god and he will inflict a grotesque penalty on me a billion times worse than the death penalty – and he loves me.. The above beliefs are based on nothing more than a collection of Bronze and Iron Age Middle Eastern mythology, much of it discredited, that was cobbled together into a book called the “Bible” by people we know virtually nothing about, before the Dark Ages.
5. The stories of Christianity are not even original. They are borrowed directly from earlier mythology from the Middle East. Genesis and Exodus, for example, are clearly based on earlier Babylonian myths such as The Epic of Gilgamesh, and the Jesus story itself is straight from the stories about Apollonius of Tyana, Ho.rus and Dionysus (including virgin birth, the three wise men, the star in the East, birth at the Winter solstice, a baptism by another prophet, turning water into wine, crucifixion and rising from the dead).
6. The Bible is also literally infested with contradictions, outdated morality, and open support for the most barbarous acts of cruelty – including, genocide, murder, slavery, r.ape and the complete subjugation of women. All of this is due to when and where it was written, the morality of the times and the motives of its authors and compilers. While this may be exculpatory from a literary point of view, it also screams out the fact that it is a pure product of man, bereft of any divine inspiration.
7. A rejection of the supernatural elements of Christianity does not require a rejection of its morality. Most atheists and secular humanists share a large amount of the morality taught today by mainstream Christianity. To the extent we reject Christian morality, it is where it is outdated or mean spirited – such as in the way it seeks to curtail freedoms or oppose the rights of $exual minorities. In most other respects, our basic moral outlook is indistinguishable from that of the liberal Christian – we just don’t need the mother of all carrots and sticks hanging over our head in order to act in a manner that we consider moral.
Falsely linking morality to a belief in the supernatural is a time-tested “three card trick” religion uses to stop its adherents from asking the hard questions. So is telling them it is “wrong to doubt.” This is probably why there is not one passage in the Bible in support of intelligence and healthy skepticism, but literally hundreds in support of blind acceptance and blatant gullibility.
8. We have no idea of who wrote the four Gospels, how credible or trustworthy they were, what ulterior motives they had (other than to promote their religion) or what they based their views on. We know that the traditional story of it being Matthew, Mark, Luke and John is almost certainly wrong. For example, the Gospel of Matthew includes a scene in which Jesus meets Matthew, recounted entirely in the third person!! Nevertheless, we are called upon to accept the most extraordinary claims by these unknown people, who wrote between 35 to 65 years after Christ died and do not even claim to have been witnesses. It is like taking the word of an unknown Branch Davidian about what happened to David Koresh at Waco – who wrote 35 years after the fact and wasn’t there.
9. When backed into a corner, Christianity admits it requires a “leap of faith” to believe it. However, once one accepts that pure faith is a legitimate reason to believe in something (which it most certainly is not, any more than “faith” that pixies exist is) one has to accept all other gods based on exactly the same reasoning. One cannot be a Christian based on the “leap of faith” – and then turn around and say those who believe in, for example, the Hindu gods, based on the same leap, got it wrong. In a dark room without features, any guess by a blind man at the direction of the door is as valid as the other 359 degrees.
Geography and birthplace dictates what god(s) one believes in. Every culture that has ever existed has had its own gods and they all seem to favor that particular culture, its hopes, dreams, and prejudices. Do you think they all exist? If not, why only yours?
Faith is not belief in a god. It is a mere hope for a god, a wish for a god, no more substantial than the hope for a good future and no more universal than the language you speak or the baseball team you support.
Well said...I'm.....not.....I mean....well....does......ok, I'll have to think about this.
Hmmmmm....
Micheal,
1.It seems to me that a being who inhabits eternity and can be in any moment in time is probably not in a hurry. What is a few billion years compared to eternity?
Without a literal Adam and Eve there is zero reason to believe the whole Jesus part of the Bible.
Whatever.
I'm still going to Heaven and you're going to Hell.
"I'm still going to Heaven and you're going to Hell." Hmmm, no. We'll all be snuffed out in an eigenblick when we die. Gone forever. But you will die happy and I will rage against the dying of the light!
And really, you are required to do more than give lip service to "love your fellow man." You come here and sneer, insinuate, threaten, and often actually lie, and you expect Jesus or Saint Peter or whoever to just nod and let you in with all that hate? When Jesus said "follow me," He meant "become like me," not step where I step.
Topher doesn't say that. That is what the trolls imagine he says.
"Topher doesn't say that. " Say what? Go back and read his whiny little posts. Good luck finding stuff to admire in all that meanness.
I think it's the Bahais who say any path you take is legit if it leads you to become a better person in the earnest hope of being worthy to approach God.
I just printed a copy of this and will take it to my Pastor. He should be able to explain it to me and then I can explain it back to you why it is not right and how I still get to have an eternal life that will be better than this one.
Don't lie.
Topher you are a coward, could not provide an honest answer to the questions below so you ran away, if your mythical jesus hated liars you will be the one in your mythical hell.
Someone is posting as Topher – that was not him.
Can't you think for yourself? Why don't you just pray to your deity for the explanation?
A REAL god wouldn't keep anyone out of heaven. And real Christians would refuse to go if their friends were being tortured.
Bible Clown©
"A REAL god wouldn't keep anyone out of heaven. And real Christians would refuse to go if their friends were being tortured."
If God just let everyone in that would mean He isn't just. But He is, which means you'll get what you deserve if you die in your sins.
i would rather "get what i deserve" than let someone else take my punishment, coward
2&3 At some point in your life, you will have to make a decision for or against Jesus. This decision will effect what happens to you in time and in eternity.
(101)
...you could try to understand that exactly nothing magical will happen when your corporeal form lacks power. Death is death. No gods, no souls, no afterlives......just a thought....not as pretty sounding as heading up to Daddy with all the love and dwelling for eternity in "god's love" but at some point you should try to see fiction for what it is....fiction.
Another blowhard christian making an empty proxy threats
Where would the faithful be without them?
"and the Jesus story itself is straight from the stories about Apollonius of Tyana, Ho.rus and Dionysus (including virgin birth, the three wise men, the star in the East, birth at the Winter solstice, a baptism by another prophet, turning water into wine, crucifixion and rising from the dead)."
Where did you get your information about this? I've honestly been seeking information on this claim, but can't find any reliable sources that support it.
Is there any point? I seem to remember you being given information about whale's legs and you dismissed it for some specious reason.
Sir, posts like this are a product of a superficial reading of the Bible, if any at all. True understanding requires serious study. You can't just take passages out of context in an effort to proof text atheistic understandings of scriptures.
I can give you a whole list of dead people whose scholarly credentials far surpass any modern theologian who have written a wealth of knowledge on the perspecuity of the Bible. If you want a list, I'd be glad to give it to you, if you would read them.
If you don't want the whole list, just start with this name: Jonathan Edwards. Quite possibly the greatest scholarly mind that America ever produced. He should be able to help you gain more understanding if you truely desire it.
Only the actual author of a written work – be it the Bible, the Hobbit, or anything in between – KNOWS what they meant when they wrote a passage and why they wrote it and what it means – at least to them. Someone can be a learned and recognized biblical scholar, but all that means is that they are providing their opinion about what they believe the passages to mean.
But that's all it is – their opinion. And, frankly, NO scholar of the bible can establish the existence of the god of the bible based on the passages in the bible or otherwise.
The writings of the bible were written by people, and chosen by people, then edited, translated, and retranslated. However, in interpreting what the bible says, in much the same way that judges are called upon to interpret laws and statutes, one should look at the common sense meaning of the words as they appear in the passage, and in the context of the immediately surrounding passages.
However, you do not have to be a noted biblical scholar to identify many, many internal contradictions, examples where the information being given is objectively wrong, and many examples, especially in the OT, of a god acting like a paranoid jealous childish monster. Seriously – wiping all life on the planet save and except for Noah, his immediate family and 2 of each animal? A wholesale planet-wide killing of almost every living thing, most of them non-human and in no way complicit in the supposed sins of man.
"Only the actual author of a written work – be it the Bible, the Hobbit, or anything in between – KNOWS what they meant when they wrote a passage and why they wrote it and what it means..."
-Absolutely false. This may apply to a painting, or to an obscure work of poetry, but the perspecuity of the Bible is a well established fact. There are many ways of getting the meaning of a text, this is basic 101 to any student of theology and textual criticism. Saying that the Bible is unclear is merely the excuse of the lazy mind. (This was the very argument that Luther posed against Erasmus in "The Bondage of the Will")
"NO scholar of the bible can establish the existence of the god of the bible based on the passages in the bible or otherwise."
-Really? Which scholar? Luther, Augustine, Calvin, Edwards, Owen, Spurgeon???
The writings of the bible were written by people, and chosen by people, then edited, translated, and retranslated.
-Translated? Sure, obviously. Edited? Actually, no. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Bible has been edited. (barring editions like the NWT which was designed to support a false doctrine, and used no manuscripts in its making) Given the amount of manuscripts that we now have access to (tens of thousands), some even written during the lifetime of John, we know for a fact that aside from some minor grammatical issues that arise from translation, the Bible is the most accurate of any ancient manuscript.
However, in interpreting what the bible says... one should look at the common sense meaning of the words as they appear in the passage, and in the context of the immediately surrounding passages.
-I whole-heartedly agree. That's basic hermaneutics.
However, you do not have to be a noted biblical scholar to identify many, many internal contradictions, examples where the information being given is objectively wrong, and many examples, especially in the OT, of a god acting like a paranoid jealous childish monster.
-Well, although you don't have to be a "scholar" per se, and don't need a degree on your wall, you DO have to dedicate time to study. And without that, you certainly can find what appear on the surface to be difficult passages. But their meaning can be understood, and you can see that there are no contradictions, etc...
Seriously – wiping all life on the planet save and except for Noah, his immediate family and 2 of each animal? A wholesale planet-wide killing of almost every living thing, most of them non-human and in no way complicit in the supposed sins of man.
-Well, you don't believe it because you don't believe the first sentence in the Bible, and without that, nothing else is going to make much sense. If I told you that I don't believe in evolution, then do you really expect me to fully comprehend all of its nuances? (for that matter, does anybody?)
Lawrence of Arabia
Amen! Good stuff, dude!
Try Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins for an intelligent take. The bible should be used for toilet paper, nothing more. It is a vile work of subjugation couched in the "love of Jesus". Painfully ridiculous. Painfully out of date, painfully obtuse. The only way any one could ever read the bible and take it at its word is if they truly truly truly WANTED it to be true.
Science trumps gods every time, until science finds us a god worth .... worshiping?
Romans 1:22 – professing to be wise, they became fools...
Thinking the is more than a fictional work of men, LoA posts yet another bible quote. An insulting one no less.
Richard,
LofA professes to be wise, you see!
unable to think for themselves, they lean on iron age comic books
5 pure bull.
6 No contradictions, just lack of understanding. Barbarous acts, watch the news tonight.
“7. A rejection of the supernatural elements of Christianity does not require a rejection of its morality. Most atheists and secular humanists share a large amount of the morality taught today by mainstream Christianity.”
True, people are capable of doing good things. Why do people do good things? Do they love their neighbor as much as they love themselves? Or is it vanity and pride? Regardless of your opinion, denying the power of God is a ticket to hell.
Hopefully hell is like it is in South Park, and the devil will throw an awesome sweet sixteen party. Also, the only people in heaven will be the Mormons.
So on one hand you admit that atheists can be moral and good and can love their neighbors as themselves, but then you go on to damn them anyways if they refuse to recognize your God as their master. Nice.
People do good and bad things. Salvation is forgiveness for bad things done, past, present, and future. No belief equals no forgiveness, this isn’t my rule.
it isn't just for things done, robert, it is for things imagined, too.....isn't it?
Threatening people who don't believe the threat is credible is pathetic and childish.
8. This is from memory, so feel free to fact check. Matthew was written by the disciple and apostle Matthew. Mark was written by John Mark a buddy of Peter and Paul. I think he was also related to Barnabas. Luke was written by Doctor Luke a friend of Paul’s. John was written by the disciple and apostle John.
The Gospel of Matthew is anonymous: the author is not named within the text, nowhere does he claim to have been an eyewitness to events, and the superscription "according to Matthew" was not part of the first editions. (Harrington 1991)
The canonicity and Matthean authorship of this gospel were unchallenged in the early church. Eusebius (ca. AD 265-339) quotes Origen (ca. AD 185-254): Among the 4 gospels, which are the only indisputable ones in the Church of God under heaven, I have learned by tradition that the first was written by Matthew, who was once a publican, but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, and it was prepared for the converts from Judaism (Ecclesiastical History, 6:25).
It is clear that this gospel was written at a relatively early date – prior to the destruction of the temple in AD 70. Some scholars have proposed a date as early as AD 50.
From what I can find most scholars seem to think that Matthew was written between 80 and 90 CE
The Gospel of John. Although the text does not name this disciple, by the beginning of the 2nd century a tradition had begun to form which identified him with John the Apostle, one of the Twelve (Jesus's innermost circle). Although some notable New Testament scholars affirm traditional Johannine scholarship,[9][10] the majority do not believe that John or one of the Apostles wrote it,[11][12][13][14][15][16]
13 The New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible: Volume 3 Abingdon Press, 2008. p. 362 "Presently, few commentators would argue that a disciple of Jesus actually wrote the Fourth Gospel,..."
14 Marilyn Mellowes The Gospel of John From Jesus to Christ: A Portrait of Jesus' World. PBS 2010-11-3. "Tradition has credited John, the son of Zebedee and an apostle of Jesus, with the authorship of the fourth gospel. Most scholars dispute this notion;..."
15 D. A. Carson, Douglas J. Moo. An introduction to the New Testament. Zondervan; 2 New edition. 2005. Pg 233 “The fact remains that despite support for Johannine authorship by a few front rank scholars in this century and by many popular writers, a large majority of contemporary scholars reject this view.”
16 "To most modern scholars direct apostolic authorship has therefore seemed unlikely." "John, Gospel of." Cross, F. L., ed. The Oxford dictionary of the Christian church. New York: Oxford University Press. 2005
The early church father Irenaeus (AD 130-200) was a disciple of Polycarp (AD 70-160), who was a disciple of the Apostle John, and he testified on Polycarp's authority that John wrote the gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia Minor when he was advanced in age. Subsequent to Irenaeus, all the church fathers recognized John to be the author.
@Robert Brown,
I'm not a Biblical scholar, but wikipedia seems to say differently.
"Strictly speaking, each gospel (and Acts) is anonymous.[46] The Gospel of John is somewhat of an exception, ... During the 2nd century, each canonical gospel was attributed to an apostle or to the close associate of an apostle."
"According to the majority viewpoint, this gospel is unlikely to have been written by an eyewitness. ... The author was probably a Jewish Christian writing for other Jewish Christians.[63]"
"Some scholars[68][69] uphold the traditional claim that Luke the Evangelist, an associate of St. Paul who was probably not an eyewitness to Jesus' ministry, wrote the Gospel of Luke and Acts of the Apostles. Others point out that Acts contradicts Paul's own letters and denies him the important ti[]tle of apostle, suggesting that the author was not a companion of Paul's.[70]"
"In the majority viewpoint, it is unlikely that John the Apostle wrote the Gospel of John."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels
I tend to give more credence to conservative bible scholars because if you go far enough on the liberal side you end up with Jesus the nice guy, but not the son of God.
I can understand why you might do that, but that would seem to me to be a case of sample bias.
The Gospel of Mark. Some modern scholars believe that the gospel was written in Syria by an unknown Christian no earlier than AD 70, using various sources including a passion narrative (probably written), collections of miracles stories (oral or written), apocalyptic traditions (probably written), and disputations and didactic sayings (some possibly written).[7]
7 Theissen, Gerd and Annette Merz. The historical Jesus: a comprehensive guide. Fortress Press. 1998.
In other words, everyone has their favorite Biblical "scholar", hearsay "witness", whatever. But what is obvious is that ever since the Bible has been read by the masses and not hidden, whatever investigation has been done has shown authorship claims to be unreliable.
9. No leaping involved, unless you mean leaping for joy after you are saved. Faith is very simple. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. When the word of God is preached in the power of the Holy Spirit, it makes an appeal to your heart and mind. When you hear it and Jesus begins to knock on your hearts door, you have a choice, open the door of your heart or refuse. Faith is very simple. Peace.
Faith is believing in something without proof.
Faith can also be believing in something despite being shown proof of the exact opposite.
You have faith that Humans have souls.
You have faith that gods created all.
You have faith that you will still be alive after you die.
You have faith that you will have this second life, that will be better than the first.
I do not share any of these faith based positions, as I view them all to be fiction. Like....Lord of the Rings? Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy? Star Wars? Star Trek?
Free your mind, free your life, live well without deities 🙂
Christian
one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ
Christianity
Religion stemming from the teachings of Jesus in the 1st century AD. Its sacred scripture is the Bible, particularly the New Testament. Its principal tenets are that Jesus is the Son of God (the second person of the Holy Trinity), that God's love for the world is the essential component of his being, and that Jesus died to redeem humankind. Christianity was originally a movement of Jews who accepted Jesus as the messiah, but the movement quickly became predominantly Gentile. The early church was shaped by St. Paul and other Christian missionaries and theologians; it was persecuted under the Roman Empire but supported by Constantine I, the first Christian emperor. In medieval and early modern Europe, Christian thinkers such as St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, and Martin Luther contributed to the growth of Christian theology, and beginning in the 15th century missionaries spread the faith throughout much of the world. The major divisions of Christianity are Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism. Nearly all Christian churches have an ordained clergy, members of which are typically though not universally male. Members of the clergy lead group worship services and are viewed as intermediaries between the laity and the divine in some churches. Most Christian churches administer two sacraments, baptism and the Eucharist. In the early 21st century there were more than two billion adherents of Christianity throughout the world, found on all continents.
http://www.merriam-webster.com
An honest christian would have indicated that no factual, verifiable, independent or objective evidence exists to support any of the supernatural claims made by christians.
"Its principal tenets are that Jesus is the Son of God (the second person of the Holy Trinity), that God's love for the world is the essential component of his being, and that Jesus died to redeem humankind."
And here we have it, folks; the only things that matter are His divinity and His passion. Stuff that could have equally been done by a deaf-mute. Absolutely NOTHING about the teachings of the Christ. This of course is why the loudest of self-professed "Christians(tm)" can spout Old Testament, Pauling Epistles, and Revelation ad libitum, and almost NEVER mention the four Gospels–you know, the stuff in red that He actually said. To the "Christian(tm)," those teachings are in fact irrelevant...
coz god wrote it and its written in the book.
How do you know god said it? its written in the book.
how do you know book is true? coz god wrote it
how do you know god wrote the book? its written in the book.
so again then, how do you know book is true? coz god wrote it
irrefutable logic.
Don't forget that the human authors that wrote the individual works contained in the bible were inspired by God to write those words. How do we know this? The authors said so.
All I can say is that I'm glad gods are not real and I hope as each year goes by, that we have fewer and fewer folks who believe in them! (amen 🙂
what? Blasphemy.. Zeus is sure to fry you with a lightning bolt. As soon as the flying spaghetti monster drowns you in marinara.. Just you wait.. oooh just you wait, the time is coming for youuuu
The only good god is a dead god.
Most of mankind's gods are already effectively dead, thousands and thousands of them. Once the population no longer protects a given religion, they are then called "mythology" and you are allowed to make fun of them. Try it. Make fun of Zeus, Odin, Thoth, Tiamat, Quetzyl etc, no one really cares. But burn a bible or cartoon a sketch of some prophet and look out, the "believer" might just kill you. Crazy for our planet to still believe in such childlike notions 🙁
I thank god every day for making me an atheist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nIWB-Neyj-c
Topher,
Where did the morals come from that tell you that the Bible is right about gay s3x, but wrong about slavery and other discriminations?
I'm glad Topher doesn't care for religion, as he's said before. Maybe he'll quit lecturing from the bible because of this?
1. I can't stand God.
2. I can't stop talking about it.
Atheists do not believe that a god or gods exist. Believers in gods, however, DO exist, and they often want to order things done according to their fantasies and superst.itions. **That's** why we talk about it.
You seem to be incapable of not talking about atheism. Hint: atheists are about 2% while Christians are 75% of the US population. It's understandable why 2% would be affected by 75%, it's not understandable why the 75% is affected by 2%.
They are afraid the atheists are actually right
1. I can't stand God.
Once again, how is it that we apparently can't stand something that we simply see zero evidence for???? Do you dislike the Easter Bunny or Santa or Thor-you don't believe in any of them, so it must mean you can't stand them-right???
2. I can't stop talking about it.
We'll stop chattering about your imaginary friend the second we a) have evidence that it exists or b) you stop imposing it in a secular world and telling us we're going to a place you think you won't be (at this point in the game, if by a VERY slim chance hell exists, it would beat spending eternity with fools like you).
Two words Scalia,
Phuck you!
Saying the devil doesn't exist is like saying I'm not handicap. Anybody that has a handicap believes in the devil and Christ alike, because they can both affect our life. Not saying the do just saying they can.
Delusional beliefs can be a handicap to be sure.
Some people need everything laid out in a book. Even then sometimes they will not get it. Even then until they have to deal with it themselves they may not still believe it.
Right, so atheists or agnostics like Einstein, Dawkins, Hawkins, etc., etc., etc. couldn't read your 2000 year old book?
LMAO
Some people do not know how to leave others alone. After this comment I will leave you alone on this matter. I would appreciate it if you would do the same. Because obviously we are not going to agreed ever or compromise.
Really? Every single handicapped person believes in Christ and the devil? Every single one? That's a rather extraordinary claim. Do you have equally extraordinary evidence?