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October 9th, 2013
02:27 PM ET
Creationists taunt atheists in latest billboard warBy Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN)– A new video billboard in New York's Times Square has a message from creationists, "To all of our atheist friends: Thank God you're wrong." The video advertisement at 42nd Street and Eighth Avenue in Manhattan is one of several billboards going up this week in New York, San Francisco and Los Angeles, paid for by Answers in Genesis. Answers in Genesis is best known as the multimillion-dollar Christian ministry behind the Creation Museum outside Cincinnati. The museum presents the case for Young Earth creationism, following what it says is a literal interpretation of the book of Genesis, which says the Earth was created by God in six days less than 10,000 years ago. Ken Ham, president of Answers in Genesis, said the idea for the advertisements came from an atheist billboard in Times Square at Christmas. During the holidays, the American Atheists put up a billboard with images of Santa Claus and Jesus that read: "Keep the Merry, dump the myth." “The Bible says to contend for the faith,” Ham said. “We thought we should come up with something that would make a statement in the culture, a bold statement, and direct them to our website. "We're not against them personally. We're not trying to attack them personally, but we do believe they're wrong," he said. "From an atheist's perspective, they believe when they die, they cease to exist. And we say 'no, you're not going to cease to exist; you're going to spend eternity with God or without God. And if you're an atheist, you're going to be spending it without God.' " Dave Silverman, president of the American Atheists, said he felt sad for creationists when he saw the billboards. "They refuse to look at the real world. They refuse to look at the evidence we have, and they offer none," Silverman said. "They might as well be saying, 'Thank Zeus you're wrong' or 'Thank Thor you're wrong.' " Silverman said he welcomed another competitor to marketplace, noting that after atheists bought a billboard two years ago in Times Square that read "You KNOW it's a myth," the Catholic League purchased competing space at the entrance to the Lincoln Tunnel for a sign that read "You KNOW it's true." "I would suggest, if they're actually trying to attract atheists, they should talk about proof and reason to believe in their god, not just some pithy play on words," Silverman said. Ham says part of the goal of the campaign is to draw people to the website for Answers in Genesis, where he offers a lengthy post on his beliefs for the proof of God. Ham insists that this campaign is in keeping with their overall mission. "We're a biblical authority ministry. We're really on about the Bible and the Gospel. Now, we do have a specialty in the area of the creation account and Genesis because that's where we say God's word has come under attack." Ham said Answers in Genesis made the decision to split its marketing budget for the ministry between a regional campaign for the museum and this billboard campaign, rather than a national campaign. IRS filings for the ministry in recent years have shown a yearly operating budget of more than $25 million. Ham said the marketing budget is about 2% of that, about $500,000 a year. Though they are waiting for all the bills to come due for this campaign, he said he expected it to cost between $150,000 and $200,000. Silverman noted that his billboards were not video and cost approximately $25,000 last year. He said another campaign was in the works for this year. "They're throwing down the gauntlet, and we're picking it up," Silverman said, adding that his group would "slap them in the face" with it. Ham said that despite criticism from other Christians for being negative and the usual criticisms from secularists he received on his social media accounts, the advertisements have been a success. "We wanted people talking about them, and we wanted discussion about this. We wanted people thinking about God," Ham said. The Creation Museum and the theory of Young Earth creationism are widely reviled by the broader science community. In a YouTube video posted last year titled "Creationism Is Not Appropriate For Children," Bill Nye the Science Guy slammed creationism, imploring parents not to teach it to their children. "We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future," he said. "We need engineers that can build stuff and solve problems." The museum responded with its own video. For the past 30 years, Gallup Inc. has been tracking American opinions about creationism. In June 2012, Gallup's latest findings showed that 46% of Americans believed in creationism, 32% believed in evolution guided by God, and 15% believed in atheistic evolution. For as long as Gallup has conducted the survey, creationism has remained far and away the most popular answer, with 40% to 47% of Americans surveyed saying they believed that God created humans in their present form at one point within the past 10,000 years. The Creation Museum said it recently welcomed its 2 millionth visitor since its opening in 2007. soundoff (8,748 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Jesus is NOT a MYTH!!!![youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50 version=3&w=640&h=390]
Just the bits about immaculate conceptions, virgin births, son of God, miraculous panem/pices multiplication, resurrections, et cetera.
I can't believe "bazinga" is a banned word. Seriously.
test – bazinga
hmmm, I guess you meant something else other than the word filter...
No, my mistake. It took so long for it to post I thought it was a new word for the list and used html....then a few minutes later it had posted okay. I was too hasty.
For those atheists and unbelievers clamoring for a world without God or religion, trust me, you'll get your desire soon enough – when you arrive in hell, as there is no God or religion in hell. Nonetheless, the reality is, this world would tear itself apart without the presence of God, his influence, or a belief in God. Religion, whether good or bad, along with a belief in God and what he represents is what has provided a "moral compass" for this world, an incentive to do right rather than to do wrong. And if you remove that moral incentive, that reason for doing good rather than evil, then this entire world would tear itself apart in short order. And I mean that literally. The following are some examples...
Opposing View,
"the reality is, this world would tear itself apart without the presence of God, his influence, or a belief in God."
Logic Test:
The ancient Greeks did not believe in God. So, were they famous for:
(a) being wild and uncivilized and killing each other
(b) brilliant mathematicians, scientists and thinkers who started public education
Oooops!
Opposing View
Example.....
I am atheist and a member of a Unitarian Universalist church and here are our principles:
1st Principle: The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
2nd Principle: Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
3rd Principle: Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
4th Principle: A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
5th Principle: The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
6th Principle: The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
7th Principle: Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
All of this without false promises, threats, or belief in the supernatural. I doubt that I could become a member of your church, but you would be welcome in mine if you abide by the principles above.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaKryi3605g&w=640&h=360]
*groan*...you're not trotting out this tired old lie and creationist edited dishonest video are you?
that video is as dishonest as your religion. Feeble, feeble, feeble!
If their God existed, these billboards wouldn't be necessary... D'oh!
Jesus is NOT a MYTH!!!![youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50 version=3&w=640&h=390]
bazinga!
Whoops. I thought it was banned because it refused to post.
nevermind.
I was going to say your post proved it was not banned, but then I thought you were making a clever joke and just laughed instead.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vis_F2rH6VE&w=640&h=360]
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc8oRO0XfkQ&w=640&h=360]
If evolution is true, does that equal atheism?
No.
It's one of the nails in the coffin of a literal reading of the bible and therefore of a personal god.
It means all this could have happened without any gods
Evolution is proven theory. The "bible" is proven fraud. All science disproves all religion because all religion is utter BS and easily demonstrated to be BS at any time, day or night. We have solid proof that evolution is an actual physical process.
If that is too deep for you, you're in the wrong part of the pool.
The irony is that you're quite wrong. Evolution has no proof. Not in any observable, repeatable scientific evidence. There are no examples of macro evolution taking place or evidence that it ever has taken place. Micro evolution is not evolution at all, but simply a differentiation of genetics. There is no new information/DNA taking place. The entire science of genetics more firmly supports a creationist interpretation of the data than a evolutionary one. Further, radiometric dating methods have their limitations as they are based upon a number of assumptions and complete unknowns.
But honestly, while science more fully agrees with a Biblical interpretation of the data available, it is not an end in and of itself. Science points to God, who does desire a personal relationship with every human.
I see you like making stuff up. Evolution has puh-lenty of repeatable, verifiable evidence – HARD EVIDENCE at that.
Go fuck yourself, you little shit.
Lying trolls like you are a dime a dozen and you all smell the same to me. Go die in a fucking fire.
I prefer talking to people who don't lie on purpose. Maybe one day it will be a capital crime. That would be a step forward.
"Evolution has no proof. Not in any observable, repeatable scientific evidence."
-except that it does. You seriously error in understanding what comprises a theory. Theories explain facts and observations.
"There are no examples of macro evolution taking place or evidence that it ever has taken place. Micro evolution is not evolution at all, but simply a differentiation of genetics."
-Macro evolution(changes at or above the level of species) is still....evolution. Simply on a scale of separated gene pools. The process is identical to micro (changes within a species) simply on different time scales. The only difference between them is time and scale. And time is not a necessary distinguishing factor – macroevolution can happen without gradual compounding of small changes. Whole-genome duplication can result in speciation occurring over a single generation, which are common in plants. We have observed instances of macro in organisms where the process if fast enough to observe- such as bacteria, plants, certain species of insects due to their fast reproductive cycles. It is also verifiable through genetics.
"There is no new information/DNA taking place."
-which is false. Anyone knowledgeable in biology know full well that anything mutations can do, mutations can undo. Mutations can add and subtract information from the genome. It is hard to understand how anyone could make this claim, since increases in information have been observed since the early 90s. One of the many mechanisms common for adding information is gene duplication. The biological literature is full of additional examples giving more than 3000 references to this regarding gene duplication.
"The entire science of genetics more firmly supports a creationist interpretation of the data than a evolutionary one."
-which it doesn't. Genetics dismisses the concept of organisms appearing fully whole and instead affirm common ancestry and common decent. This is because genes are units of heredity and can only be inherited and passed down. It does not support adam being formed out of dirt or eve from adam's rib or side. That's not how biological organisms form. It supports humans as a species divergence within the primate order, sharing common ancestors with other primates as well as other distant organisms. That's why we share genes not only with primates-but plants, bacteria, mice, fish, yeast, worms. That is only possible through common decent. All living things share common decent through inheritance from a universal common ancestor, just as genetics reveal.
"Further, radiometric dating methods have their limitations as they are based upon a number of assumptions and complete unknowns."
-Independent measurements, using different and independent radiometric techniques, give consistent results. Radiometric dates are consistent with several nonradiometric dating methods. Science points to reality of the natural world, not biblical assertions about the natural world. The natural world is testable and false claims made about it will fall apart as a result of the evidence.
what do you mean "if" evolution is true?!?! Evolution is not in doubt. It's a proven fact for everybody who doesn't live inside your Christian bubble and hide from the real world of science.
Evolution is as solid as scientific theories get. You'd have to have a whole in your head not to understand how it meshes with the evidence. But no, it says nothing about the existence of gods in general. Only that certain specific gods are highly improbable given their conflicts with evolution and other scientific theories.
Evolution is part of biology, has nothing to do with religious claims. Atheism is a rejection position for the assertion of deities just like people reject the assertion for other mythical beings.
I agree with AE here. Dr. Ken Miller is perhaps the foremost defender of evolution in America and was a key witness for the plaintiffs at the Dover trial. He is also a Roman Catholic. It's important to note that Miller is not simply an evolution defender; he's a defender of science. In light of tendency of these threads to degenerate into less than productive exchanges (wherein I concede my frustrations sometimes get the better of me), I thought this video particularly relevant . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re4zVcRgTz0
I say Bravo!
Nothing will turn more people away from the bible than this group of fanatics.
Since we've got Ron dumping quotes on us again from his Christian book of nasty AKA the bible, let's take a look at what's really in there too:
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Leviticus 25
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
Nope.
Yep.
Great list, Bob. I'll reference it next time the fundiots come calling.
Yeah, that's the strange thing. The Christians want to only claim the moralities of the Bible, and not it's immoralities. My guess is that if they could do it over, they never would have included those other books in the Bible.
Nope. At least in my church we understand why they are there. Human slavery is very much alive today and you probably participate it without even much awareness. Wouldn't it be nice if we could omit that fact out of our lives, too.
But we can't.
The Bible paints a honest and accurate portrayal of the human condition. Warts and all.
AE
"The Bible paints a honest and accurate portrayal of the human condition."
Please explain why it supports some of the worst oppression of the human condition such as slavery.
Your "bible" is NOT honest OR accurate about ANYTHING, so you might as well shut up now and go watch TV.
I don't think it does. It describes prisoners of war and indentured servants. 2 things you quite possibly allow today. The Bible shows that human beings are deeply flawed creatures that are capable of doing great and horrible things. Thousands of years later and not much has changed.
http://slaveryfootprint.org/survey/#where_do_you_live
AE,
So you support the breaking of bones of prisoners of war and indentured servants WITHOUT any punishment, right?
I do not support that type of physical abuse.
But the Bible does, and as a former Christian, I find that to be most immoral and a contradiction of the goodness the Bible is supposed to convey. Thomas Jefferson was right.
You don't support that? Then you have "turned your face against your god" and will now burn alive for all eternity.
If you don't go out and kill all non-believers you are damned. If you don't follow the slightest suggestion possible you are against your "god". See how it is on the other side of the fundie coin? There are people out there who would actually condemn you for saying that and be certain "in their hearts" that you are going straight to hell. Now tell me you don't support that either.
No, Ironicus.
I folllow Jesus Christ, not YOUR understanding of what the Bible says.
AE should be banned from having guns. And banned from having kids.
No I shouldn't. I have a clean record and stable mental condition. I volunteer with a children's program that promotes literacy and have been thanked by many parents for the help I provide.
Before I turned my life over to God, I would've agreed with you.
As an ex-christard, I can only laugh at your over-reaching naivete. Claiming I don't know something when you know nothing about me is pretty stupid. I almost became a pastor. Don't claim what you don't know and we'll get along better.
Did you resort to personal attacks using slur names back then, too. Or did you start doing that recently?
"""The Bible paints a honest and accurate portrayal of the human condition. """
Disingenuous statement at best. The old testament reflects the human condition at that time, and the morality of that time. This is not consistent with the word of a timeless god.
Ok. Little complicated here but I'm a gay Christian Creationist. If evolution is true, why are there gay people. I mean, reproduction!!! God made me this way!
Are you familiar with the notion of unsucessful adaptations?
nope
Adaptations happen all the time. Some are successful. Most are not.
Those adaptations that do not result in changed genetic material being passsed on to the next generation are by definition unsuccessful. That doesn't mean the same adaptation doesn't reoccur the same way it did in an earlier generation.
"Successful" is a subjective, non-scientific term. Shame on you.
There is no "direction" to evolution at all. Please make a note of this fact.
I never implied that there was a direction to evolution.
What term do you use for an adaptation that is *successfully* transmitted to subsequent generations?
The word "success" implies a goal-oriented process that attains the goal. DNA does not have goals.
I also thought you might have been making a taunt about non-productive intercourse. Either way, it's a poor choice of words.
I would avoid any words or language that can be misinterpreted or misunderstood to mean that there is intent or conscious choice or any guiding force beyond physics in any chemical reaction, genetic or otherwise.
"Adaptation" is another poor choice of words. If DNA is transferred with little or no change in chemical signatures, it is neither a success nor failure but is a transfer of chemical signatures as part of another chemical process governed by physics.
DNA doesn't "adapt", it changes. It's just a chemical chain entirely subject to physics. Animals don't adapt and their DNA doesn't adapt. What happens is DNA is produced that is sometimes changed due to breeding, mutation, radiation, etc. – this DNA may or may not be part of a continuing chemical process. There is no "success" but many people cannot help thinking of such things in anthropomorphic ways, ascribing values and design where there never was any such thing.
Well, oh I'd better just shut up right now.
Look up epigenetics. Gene modification – very early in development; resistant to change.
seriously, THAT'S your argument?
how do you know that god did not create gay people as a tool to limit reproduction
don't the christians always say that god works in mysterious ways?
Species don't require every member to reproduce to ensure survival. In fact in nearly every species the vast majority never make it to sexual maturity.
Well for one, plenty of gay people have reproduced. For two, genes are carried by the whole of a society or tribe. They are not always expressed by everyone, in other words, non-gay people can be carriers (of whatever genetic information would lead someone to be gay). Plenty of non-gay people have gay offspring. Just because a person is gay does not mean they don't add to the tribe's success and therefore ability to procreate.
Evolution is occurring because of mutations ie changes in the sequence of our DNA. It happens to all living organisms including us. We have the ability to sequence DNA and can see changes over time. We can even predict how long ago on the evolutionary timeline we diverged from different ancestors based upon how much the sequences of the genes match. Mutation rate is pretty predictable over time. There is a tremendous amount of evidence supporting the theory of evolution. You don't have to take my word or anyone else's. Find a good book on evolution and free yourself from the ignorance that creationists use to control you.
No one knows how trolls are born. Even worse, no one knows how to get rid of them.
Awesomely put. Ironic as hell, too. You win 10,000 internets.
Evolution tells me the descended from monkeys. Proof, you say? They sometimes eat bananas. Checkmate.
they* /grumble
This is prevalent in the animal kingdom. It's not something unique only to the human species. Obviously it is a product of hetero reproduction, so there will likely always be such an attraction amongst populations that reproduce which would explain why it never died out. Some traits that may not be particularly beneficial in regard to reproducing can still be favored if they are tied to other traits that are favored. Some studies indicate these attractions arise as a byproduct of providing a selective advantage for reproduction. Others, like in epigenetic studies, show genes can be switched on and off in successive generations, and then there are DNA switches that control how genes operate. In that case there may not be different genes to explain it, but rather mechanisms that control how those genes function that produce these different attractions.
Is Obama an evolutionist? He believes that Jesus lives!
I don't know – but we know that "W" was a creationist, and look at the wonders he brought forward with his morals. Thanks for that war in Iraq, the thousands of American soldiers killed, the tens of thousands wounded, and all the Iraqis that were killed. What a Christian.
@Mat
You said, "Is Obama an evolutionist?"
If by "evolutionist" you mean someone who accepts the scientific view, he probably is.
You said, "He believes that Jesus lives!"
More precisely, he claims to believe something like that. But, given his considerable intellect, I seriously doubt that he actually buys into that nonsense.
No, he's a fundie. He gives sermons using a deplorable speaking style I find disturbing, to say the least.
You don't want him to be a fundie and I feel the same way, but he is truly stupid about many things including religion.
He thinks religion is above the law, not the other way around. That's fundie-thinking right there.
The earth was created less than 10,000 years ago, dinosaurs existed million years ago? I am really puzzled.
It was Satan!!
So you mean satan created dinosaurs long before god created universe?
Yeah, even more interesting is that there have never been any human remains found with dinosaurs. None. Not even any of our prehistoric ancestors.
Doesn't it make sense, though, that people would want to be as far away from dinosaurs as possible?
The ages of the rocks don't match – that's why. There were predators in Africa and we find the remains of those predators in rocks as the same age as humans. Your logic fails the evidence of science.
Topher you're too much. When dinosaurs walked the Earth the nearest thing to a human was a shrew-like mammal...and yes it did a great deal of burrowing out of sight from the big snaggletoothed beasties .
That a majority of humans believe in a creator does count for something. I believe we were created by a God who loves us and who died and rose from the dead for us to show us what love is.
I have personally encountered God many times through prayer, church, nature etc.
I choose to live in that belief, if I die and was wrong, it won't matter. If I die and was right it will matter very much. Each must work out their own salvation, each must face their humanity.
I do not intend to debate with anyone and respect each person's free will and intellect, just wanted to share my experience.
I do find it appalling that people from both sides of this argument are engaging in name calling, claiming that those who differ from their own thinking are crazy etc. I know plenty of honest smart and sane people on both sides.
No, it does not. The fact that vast numbers of religious Germans thought the Jewish People were a plague upon this earth did not make them right, either. The vast number of people that claim to believe in UFOs that contain aliens does not make them right either. Might (through numbers) does not make right.
"I have personally encountered God many times through prayer, church, nature etc. "
So you claim but why should anyone believe you? As near as I can tell the only thing you've encountered is your own sub conscience. You've convinced yourself that some part of it is separate from yourself and that it can be attributed to external events. Entirely without explanation or effect you invoke an agent where none is required or evident. In every instance where you think God had something to do with it I could probably provide a rational explanation.
Reality is not a popularity contest. It doesn't matter how many people believe in a god. There is still no indisputable evidence that any god exists.
"'I would suggest, if they're actually trying to attract atheists, they should talk about proof and reason to believe in their god, not just some pithy play on words,' Silverman said." I can't believe he's still using "reason" as an excuse.
Reasonable people understand that nothing in our experience ever came into existence; we've never witnessed spontaneous generation. Yet they extend a blind faith in the process to the forces that created existence itself.
Reasonable people know that reason, logic, emotion, imagination or a desire to believe in something greater cannot be explained by a purely material existence. These traits do not conform to a world governed solely by natural forces. Ironically, without God, atheists couldn't even use reason to deny His existence.
Reasonable people don't care if some people believe in God. They don't feel the need to attack. I understand why those who believe in God feel compelled to share that belief. But why do those who don't believe feel the need to counter? What's their end game?
Reason is proof of God, not vice versa.
Post by 'Lee' presents a form of the Argument from Ignorance fallacy.
http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html
FS101, yeah, that and several strawmen too.
Thanks for coming out, Lee, but your own "reasoning" gets an epic fail.
Nope.
Logic and reason does not lead all people to atheism.
Ummmmm. AE, the point was that the OP's reasoning was wrong. Do try to keep up, stupid. Sheesh.
It does if stringently applied to theological nonsense. Using logic to make a great sandwich does not lead to atheism, no, I would agree on that...
If you could reason with a believer they'd no longer be believers. There is no evidence to support the creation myths of any religion, so how could reason and logic lead to a conclusion that they are true? The creation myths are the "credentials" of a religion and they have no substance.
Kim,
No. The OP had some good points. Especially about faith.
AE, those "points" were wrong, and shown to be illogical.
Do try to keep up, stupid.
" Logic and reason does not lead all people to atheism"
Yes they do. That's how I got there.
Personal incredulity logical fallacy.
Boom! Proved you false. Yes. It is that easy.
"Reasonable people understand that nothing in our experience ever came into existence;"
-We ourselves are the product of self-replicating molecules....a process occurring long before our existence for us to even "experience" anything. The big bang doesn't describe an expansion out of nothing, since the concept of nothing does not exist in physics. The big bang explain that the universe expanded out of energy....with physics showing energy can't be created or destroyed.
"we've never witnessed spontaneous generation."
– The spontaneous generation that Pasteur and others disproved was the idea that life forms such as mice, maggots, and bacteria can appear fully formed. They disproved a form of creationism. There is no law of biogenesis saying that very primitive life cannot form from increasingly complex molecules. We HAVE, however, observed that complex compounds....the same compounds that can be found in our DNA.....naturally form out of star formation. self-replicating molecules need not be all that complex, the earliest self-replicator was likely very much simpler than anything alive today. This is simple enough to form via prebiotic chemistry. Self-replication sets the stage for evolution to begin, whether or not you call the molecules "life."
"Yet they extend a blind faith in the process to the forces that created existence itself."
-who said anything had to be "created"? The big bang describes the formation of the universe. There's no need for a creator for something to form.
"Reasonable people know that reason, logic, emotion, imagination or a desire to believe in something greater cannot be explained by a purely material existence"
-say's who? We do know that is all entirely depended on.....a material existence. Those things rise as a result of the human brain. The human brain is a physical, material, biochemical object. Without the physical brain, you do not have them. That requires no deity to explain, and a deity doesn't even explain how such things arise. You would think if a god exist and was intelligent....then it would know that reason dictate evidence, not irrational blind belief.
"Reasonable people don't care if some people believe in God. They don't feel the need to attack."
-reasonable people don't have a problem with Thor, or Hercules, or Zeus, or Ra. Yet....reasonable people aren't suggesting those deities (who also have no evidence for claims of their existence).....are real. Reason....remember?
"I understand why those who believe in God feel compelled to share that belief. But why do those who don't believe feel the need to counter? What's their end game?"
– Reason. I'm sure people would counter if others were suggesting Santa claus or fire dragons....were real simply on assertion. Same here. Proof of god is a measurable, demonstrable, confirmed observation of it's being, not an unsupported assertion no more valid than other unseen claimed mythical creatures.
"I have come into the world to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice." ....Jesus, the Son of God (John 18:37)
Uh oh, someone's spreading garlic. Vampires must be about.
"All that the Father gives me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." ....Jesus (John 6:37)
Ron,
So you are still spouting Bible verses without apparently reading much of it.
Did you do ANY research or read the Bible so you can now answer simple questions?
Does the Bible support slavery? Yes or no?
Does the Bible say to beat your children with rods to discipline them? Yes or no?
Observer, I answered your question earlier. You must be a little dull of hearing. They are both in the BIble. I asked you two questions to which you failed to respond: Can a man judge God? Do you consider yourself to be more righteous than God?
Ron,
So what were the two answers of "yes" or "no"?
You're just tapdancing and avoiding the issues. So are the answers "yes" or "no"?
God is imaginary. I judge him to be non-existent and thereby beneath consideration in any aspect other than the intentions of its adherents.
Ron,
Yes I can judge God just like you and everyone else does. That's why you CHOOSE to support some things from the Bible and probably CHOOSE not to support the Bible when it comes to slavery.
When it comes to support for slavery, discrimination against women, gays and the handicapped, beating children, breaking the bones of slaves without punishment, forcing people into marriage when they may hate each other, etc., yes I feel I am more righteous. I guess you are not.
Observer, it is your own words that will condemn you on judgement day.
@Ron – That is what you believe, but it is not what you know.
Ron,
Simple questions about the Bible that you CLAIM to be familiar with.
So are the answers "yes" or "no"?
"Observer, it is your own words that will condemn you on judgement day."
Baloney... Proxy threat. Only believers can see this bizarre idea as worthy of consideration. Must be terrifying. I pity you.
Does the Bible support slavery? Yes or no?
No.
Does the Bible say to beat your children with rods to discipline them? Yes or no?
No.
AE,
The Bible tells where you can buy slaves and to treat them as PROPERTY. It even gives rules on how badly you can HURT them without punishment.
The Bible says a good parent beats their children with rods for discipline.
Why not read a Bible? You are clearly in a discussion you know nothing about.
Since we've got Ron dumping quotes on us again from his Christian book of nasty AKA the bible, let's take a look at what's really in there:
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Leviticus 25
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
Where does it say as a follower of Jesus Christ I should be cool with owning slaves and beating children?
And why have Christians been leaders on the front of ending slavery? And why do slaves and former slaves become Christians? Why did African-American slaves claim they used the Bible to gain their freedom?
How come today in my church we read those verses Bob posted, but put them in context and have a different understanding about what God is trying to teach us about sin and human beings?
Is Bob a bot? Why does he always copy and paste the exact same things?
AE,
Where does Jesus condemn slavery and say we shouldn't follow God's commands to beat children and slaves? Maybe it's the same place where Jesus condemns gays, too.
God never made a command for me to own slaves and beat children.
AE,
God gave commands about how much you could beat your slaves without punishment. Please read a Bible.
Nothing about beating children? (Prov. 13:24) “He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.”
-God gave commands about how much you could beat your slaves without punishment. Please read a Bible.
No he didn't.
– Nothing about beating children? (Prov. 13:24) “He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.”
Did you get spa.nked as a child? I did. I needed it. And Solomon wrote that line, not God.
@Ron
"Can a man judge God? Do you consider yourself to be more righteous than God?"
-how can you judged something that hasn't been shown to exist? You have to prove existence first. What evidence show that your claimed god is righteous? If you have no evidence showing it even exist, how can you claim to know that it's righteous? You are making baseless assertions.
AE
"Did you get spa.nked as a child? I did. I needed it. And Solomon wrote that line, not God"
Certainly you know the difference between a spa.nking and being hit with a rod as described by Solomon, praised by the Bible as the smartest man in the world.
(Prov. 22:15) “Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of correction will drive it far from him.”
(Prov. 23:13-14) “Do not withhold correction from a child, for if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. You shall beat him with a rod, And deliver his soul from hell.”
I've been paddled before. I didn't like it. But it kept me from getting in harms way in the future.
AE,
Do you believe that the ONLY way you can discipline children is through violence?
Likely AE's head was paddled. That would explain a lot.
No. I have never used violence as a means for disciplining a child. I work with children, both in a secular and religious setting and it is clear we are not to hit or spa.nk children. In the secular environment it is instructed we are not to touch the children in any way.
I have never seen anyone use violence to discipline a child in my religious settings.
AE
"I have never seen anyone use violence to discipline a child in my religious settings."
Actually, one of the Christians on here endorses using a rod. Fortunately, most people don't follow everything in the Bible. As long as they are choosing from the Bible, I wish far more Christians would choose the Golden Rule.
Don't know about the Golden Rule – sounds heavy. The nuns used a standard ruler, but the kind with slots that would catch your hide and leave blood blisters.
"I am the Good Shepherd.., and I know My own, and My own know Me." ....Jesus (John 10:14) The people of God will receive God The Father, and The Son of God through the Spirit of God.
Can you remind me which two daughters got the ok to sleep with their father? I remember reading that in Genesis the other day.
Your point? What is that story about, and how did that come about. Do you have a clue?
Oh, you're just another typical cafeteria cherry picking xtian. Get lost.
It's something that our human laws recognize is a no-no. That would make us greater than God. Also, if it is the spirit that is important, the desire for a couple of daughters to be able to continue a blood line is rather shallow, don't you think? Or is that the problem – that you don't think and just accept.
You tube, get a clue. Most moral laws of men have come down from the laws of God. It is from the Bible that we learn that incest is wrong. The story is not condoned by God. The outcome from the child that resulted was very bad. Have you ever read the Bible?
Ron
"Most moral laws of men have come down from the laws of God. It is from the Bible that we learn that incest is wrong.'
Lol. Read a Bible someday. The Bible NEVER condemns incest between father and daughter and shows that INCEST was God's choice of method to populate the earth TWICE.
Get a clue.
Actually, I would need your evidence of that. We have archaeological evidence that shows the morals of the Bible were present in older civilizations before the Judaio-Christian ones... Have you not even bothered to research the arguments against your own beliefs? That's intellectually dishonest.
You Tube, well I see you enjoy archeology. You must have enjoyed the recent unearthing of the city of David and all the Biblical sites along with it?
No, I haven't had a chance to read up on that yet. But I do know that Israeli archaeologists now say the Great Exodus from Egypt by the Jews is false. Do you think the Bible is going to be revised to remove that, now that it's been proven false?
Do you find it enjoyable to speak from ignorance. Tell me Observer, did this occur before or after God gave us the law (commandments) at Mount Sinai?
You Tube, the story of Exodus is true. The godless and faithless have trouble with the miracles of God. You seem inclined to believe faithless men my friend. Say it ain't so?
Ron,
God used incest TWICE to populate the earth. The perfect and "unchanging" God then changed the rules, right?
Still waiting to hear why God never condemned incest between father and daughter.
To the contrary, I'm inclined to believe facts/evidence/proof. If you'll provide some, I'll be glad to review it. Until then ....
I think it was a couple of the Cavedashians. That's right Lot Cavedashian.
The Great Mutant Cosmic Star Goat (braise His mane!) laughs at your puny god.
Since we've got Ron dumping quotes on us again from his Christian book of nasty AKA the bible, let's take a look at what's really there:
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Leviticus 25
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
What scientists don't get to tell you all the time:
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein
“Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.”
Carl Sagan
"Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe?"
"The usual approach of science of constructing a mathematical model cannot answer the questions of why there should be a universe for the model to describe. Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?"
"If we do discover a complete theory, it should be in time understandable in broad principle by everyone. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists, and just ordinary people be able to take part in the discussion of why we and the universe exist."
Stephen Hawking
Reflection
God tests people by Faith. God wants every soul to believe in Him. If God were to show Himself or anyone to have a direct proof of Him, there can be no test, and no one can have true faith anymore. A believer has it in his/her own heart that God IS.
We CAN NOT see God BUT we see His mighty work.
We humans tend to take life for granted. It might escape the average person how serious this creation is because attention is not paid. However, a scientist or so is in awe of what he/she sees when studying matters of this existence! The more you dig into science, the more you realize how scary serious God is!
The more I learn everyday, the more I know how much I DON'T know!
Science shows/reveals design in this existence, and every design has a designer. This universe and life in it are clearly by design. That is circumstantial evidence of the Designer and Creator.
This Universe & Life In It ARE "Prima Facie" EVIDENCE Of God
Romans 1:20
"20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."
Colossians 1:16
"16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him."
Hebrews 11:3
"3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible."
Acts 17:24-28
"24 The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’"
All Scripture Is From:
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
http://www.biblegateway.com/
Atlanta.
@Vic,
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.” – Albert Einstein
So you, like Einstein, are a deist and like the idea of Spinoza's God?
I am a born again Christian Protestant. I believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and my personal Savior.
Atlanta. Yes, I know.
... and, I stil need your evidence. By the way, you've not provided Einstein's quote where he denies a personal God, and Sagan was an atheist. Must I debunk everything you've written, Vic.
Those quotes are intended to show how humans including great scientists detect and attest to the existence of God.
No, they do not. And your knowledge of that makes you a fraud. Shame on you. Are you that desperate and afraid to evaluate your claims?
not every scientist who believes in God would tell you that flat out. A lot of them hint to it in great subtlety and/or double talk.
... not bearing false witness is one of the commandments , remember?
I'v already refuted Einstein and Sagan, and Hawking is no religious man. Your facts are wrong, but maybe bearing false witness is ok.
Way to go, Vic.
After all, it's OK to lie for God.... in fact, I think it's a necessary to add to the faithful bunch.
Vic, the difference between what Einstein means by god and what you mean has been explained to you numerous times. I'm not sure if you are incapable of understanding the distinction or willing to repeatedly present a dishonest picture to further your aims. Either way, it stuns me that there are people silly enough to debate you.
Einstein did not believe in your Abrahamic God.
Sagan did not believe in God at all. He uses the word 'sprituality' in the context of a sense of awe of the universe – which is really awesome.
Not every scientist who believes in God would tell you that flat out. A lot of them hint to it in great subtlety and/or double talk. Albert Einstein and Carl Sagan did it before, and Stephen Hawking is doing it today. People in their position can not just admit belief in God flat out.
Since we've got Vic dumping quotes on us again from his Christian book of nasty AKA the bible, let's take a look at what's really in there too:
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Leviticus 25
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
"I am the resurection and the life; he that believes in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live." ....Jesus (John 11:25)
"In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit Not a nasty, dirty wet hole, filled with the ends of earth worms and an ozzy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole, with nothing
to sit down on or to eat; it was a hobbit hole, and that means comfort."
From the book of Bilbo, 1:1
"oozy" not ozzy.
Hobbits don't come from down under. (Unless you mean Peter Jackson's Hobbits, but I can tell you that Kiwis don't like being called Aussies.)
When you quote from scripture you have to be accurate.
"“In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.”
Unless of course you are demonstrating the dangers inherent in transcripting scripture.
He, was being a little mean comparing Tolkien´s quality writing with that other nonsence. (bible should really read better considering how much editing it´s gone through)
A better comparison would be Bram Stoker´s Dracula since that is also written in an "compilation of letters and journal-entrys". 🙂
"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father, but by Me." ....Jesus (John 14:6)
Psalm 137:9 – Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
JJ, the Psalm was written by whom, and what is the context of the Psalm?
How in ANY context would that be acceptable? I like how you are looking for contexts to excuse such immoral behavior simply because it's written in a religious text. Hosea 13:16 says similar with the people of Samaria having their children dashed to the ground and pregnant woman ripped open simply because of the texts say they rebelled against god? Why would that still make such deplorable behavior acceptable at all for a "punishment"?
Roo, acceptable to whom? Who's approval do you seek God's or man's? God doesn't take a poll when He acts. God is love. He also is the Judge of all the world and He does judge. He destroyed the whole earth by the great flood and saved only 8. So then, men women and children were swept away by His wrath. He didn't take a poll beforehand to see if it would be acceptable to us. God doesn't do polls or seek the approval of men. He is God Almighty! He does not give an account to us, but we will surely give an account to Him. And it is He, not man, who will decide our fate. Unless you repent from your rebellion you will surely die in your sins.
@Ron
"Roo, acceptable to whom? Who's approval do you seek God's or man's? God doesn't take a poll when He acts."
-"God" is merely an unfounded assertion, therefore morality built on that......is baseless. It's nothing more than another form of subjective morality since god has not been proven factual with evidence to justify it's own moral claims. So claiming moral authority because you said "god said so".....is useless. You haven't even shown your god to be real.
"He destroyed the whole earth by the great flood and saved only 8"
-the geological record does not support a global flood. A global flood contradicts the scientific consensus in geology and paleontology, chemistry, physics, astronomy, cosmology, biology, geophysics and stratigraphy. You are basing your claim on a mythical story. The flood story itself wasn't original to Israel. The same narrative elements were found in the Sumerian flood myth cuneiform tablets which predate the Israelites given that the Sumerians were the first known civilization to arise in the fertile crescent region. It's where Israel got its concept for the flood narrative. Israel adapted and modified older stories that were common at the time. The Sumerian myths had near the same narrative- flood result of a divine decision, one individual chosen to be recused, given instructions on building a boat and load it with animals & who to bring on board, the flood covers the rest of the earth, birds are sent out to find dry land ( in near the same order), boat lands on a mountain, hero offers a sacrifice and receives a blessing. The difference with the later biblical adaptation is that Israel transformed those stories by replacing the group of capricious gods into one single god using moral reasons for the flood rather than pure capriciousness. Didn't bother to change any other elements of the story. It was simply a convenient way to describe a situation where a calamity can result from certain actions deemed immoral to the biblical writers. So they changed the meaning of the story to reflect their views. The book of genesis wasn't composed until around the time of the Babylonian exile around 6th century BCE of the 1st millennium. The Sumerian stories date well into the 4th-3rd millennium BCE.
The genetic evidence does not support the human race growing out of those "8 survivors". The human population never got below the 1000s. The genetic evidence show the human race never originated from two people or eight people. We evolved out a population that diverged.
"God doesn't do polls or seek the approval of men."
-there's no evidence a god did anything. You are merely stating an asserted claim which is unsupported.....just like the assertions of the deeds of Zeus & Hercules are unsupported. Turn away from your rebellion of reason. Blind gullibility will only take you so far. Willful ignorance helps no one. Get it together.
"There is no good and evil, there is only power, and those too weak to seek it."
— Professor Quirrel, "Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone”
See, I can quote fiction, too.
Hi Lin, I can see you are able to quote the fiction of men. But are you able to make a distinction between fiction from the mind of men, and reality from the Spirit of God?
There is no god, Ron. You're just full of crap and smell twice as bad. Your racist Jew-god is just a piece of filth.
Whine all you want. Your so-called "god" will NOT back you up on ANYTHING you say because it never existed in the first place. Did your god tell you to come here? No. Your god says nothing to anyone. Non-existent fairy-tale creatures have a way of doing that EVERY DAMN TIME. Gosh.
The good thing about you being a "good christian" is that now you can forgive Ironicus and score some points with your God.
@Ron
You said, "But are you able to make a distinction between fiction from the mind of men, and reality from the Spirit of God?"
Since the evidence for the existence of your god is equal to the evidence that Harry Potter is real, or the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny, there is no reason to believe that your god is any different.
Your god, and the entire fairy tale based on the belief in it, is man made. It is all fiction.
That´s the voices in your head that was mentioned Before.
"""are you able to make a distinction between fiction from the mind of men, and reality from the Spirit of God?"""
How incredibly ironic that you should ask this, Ron.
Just saying it doesnt make it so. I know this is a hard thing to understand. Believing in something doesnt make it truthful. Even if your parents taught you that.
Anders, does not believing in God make God and heaven and hell go away?
"Anders, does not believing in God make God and heaven and hell go away?"
-Does not believing in Zeus make Olympus go away? Or is it they only exist when you believe they exist? Such ignorant comments.
Roo, yes, because of your ignorance, and I would add rebellion, you make such foolish comments.
The evidence for you god and zeus are the same.....and yet you call someone else foolish? Right....
So you it all come down to your own willful gulliblity to accept one asserted mythos over another. For the rest of us....the criteria for both claims are the same....E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E. Evidence verifies the truth of a claim, not blind faith. If there is no evidence to show how you got the claim....then the claim is baseless. This is not rocket science.