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October 9th, 2013
02:27 PM ET
Creationists taunt atheists in latest billboard warBy Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN)– A new video billboard in New York's Times Square has a message from creationists, "To all of our atheist friends: Thank God you're wrong." The video advertisement at 42nd Street and Eighth Avenue in Manhattan is one of several billboards going up this week in New York, San Francisco and Los Angeles, paid for by Answers in Genesis. Answers in Genesis is best known as the multimillion-dollar Christian ministry behind the Creation Museum outside Cincinnati. The museum presents the case for Young Earth creationism, following what it says is a literal interpretation of the book of Genesis, which says the Earth was created by God in six days less than 10,000 years ago. Ken Ham, president of Answers in Genesis, said the idea for the advertisements came from an atheist billboard in Times Square at Christmas. During the holidays, the American Atheists put up a billboard with images of Santa Claus and Jesus that read: "Keep the Merry, dump the myth." “The Bible says to contend for the faith,” Ham said. “We thought we should come up with something that would make a statement in the culture, a bold statement, and direct them to our website. "We're not against them personally. We're not trying to attack them personally, but we do believe they're wrong," he said. "From an atheist's perspective, they believe when they die, they cease to exist. And we say 'no, you're not going to cease to exist; you're going to spend eternity with God or without God. And if you're an atheist, you're going to be spending it without God.' " Dave Silverman, president of the American Atheists, said he felt sad for creationists when he saw the billboards. "They refuse to look at the real world. They refuse to look at the evidence we have, and they offer none," Silverman said. "They might as well be saying, 'Thank Zeus you're wrong' or 'Thank Thor you're wrong.' " Silverman said he welcomed another competitor to marketplace, noting that after atheists bought a billboard two years ago in Times Square that read "You KNOW it's a myth," the Catholic League purchased competing space at the entrance to the Lincoln Tunnel for a sign that read "You KNOW it's true." "I would suggest, if they're actually trying to attract atheists, they should talk about proof and reason to believe in their god, not just some pithy play on words," Silverman said. Ham says part of the goal of the campaign is to draw people to the website for Answers in Genesis, where he offers a lengthy post on his beliefs for the proof of God. Ham insists that this campaign is in keeping with their overall mission. "We're a biblical authority ministry. We're really on about the Bible and the Gospel. Now, we do have a specialty in the area of the creation account and Genesis because that's where we say God's word has come under attack." Ham said Answers in Genesis made the decision to split its marketing budget for the ministry between a regional campaign for the museum and this billboard campaign, rather than a national campaign. IRS filings for the ministry in recent years have shown a yearly operating budget of more than $25 million. Ham said the marketing budget is about 2% of that, about $500,000 a year. Though they are waiting for all the bills to come due for this campaign, he said he expected it to cost between $150,000 and $200,000. Silverman noted that his billboards were not video and cost approximately $25,000 last year. He said another campaign was in the works for this year. "They're throwing down the gauntlet, and we're picking it up," Silverman said, adding that his group would "slap them in the face" with it. Ham said that despite criticism from other Christians for being negative and the usual criticisms from secularists he received on his social media accounts, the advertisements have been a success. "We wanted people talking about them, and we wanted discussion about this. We wanted people thinking about God," Ham said. The Creation Museum and the theory of Young Earth creationism are widely reviled by the broader science community. In a YouTube video posted last year titled "Creationism Is Not Appropriate For Children," Bill Nye the Science Guy slammed creationism, imploring parents not to teach it to their children. "We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future," he said. "We need engineers that can build stuff and solve problems." The museum responded with its own video. For the past 30 years, Gallup Inc. has been tracking American opinions about creationism. In June 2012, Gallup's latest findings showed that 46% of Americans believed in creationism, 32% believed in evolution guided by God, and 15% believed in atheistic evolution. For as long as Gallup has conducted the survey, creationism has remained far and away the most popular answer, with 40% to 47% of Americans surveyed saying they believed that God created humans in their present form at one point within the past 10,000 years. The Creation Museum said it recently welcomed its 2 millionth visitor since its opening in 2007. soundoff (8,748 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Believe what you want, but don't confuse fact with fiction. Faith does not prove anything–it is what someone falls back on when fact is missing. The argument for a god comes about because this we can't image how the universe was formed or we have some inner need for something to comfort us about the unknown doesn't make god any more real than the fairly tale monsters a child believes in.
False.
Faith means trust. That's it. You have faith in the scientific method, for example.
Furthermore, even to try to rip it from the context of such a debate and claim it's belief without evidence, psychologists would fervently disagree with your notion that it comes *after* evidence is found lacking. In fact, the text book example of the faith-principle in that sense is that most people will claim a baby looks like its father, much more often than like the mother. Why? Because there's some room for doubt about the father.
That's not because there's no evidence that the alleged father is in fact that father.
The argument for God is not an etiological one. There are religions, and more importantly religious folks, who focus on what they experience here and now. Not where we came from, not where we are going. The fact that people get hung up on crap like whether Gen 1 means a literal 6 days or not is probably why you've been led to believe that.
You are wrong though. You have no evidence to suggest that's where religion came from, nor that what religious people experience is the same as what children experience. You have in fact committed the very same fallacy you inaccurately accused others of. That kind of imposition is actually a common psychological phenomena as well. You may want to consider taking a psych class or two, then perhaps delve into philosophy over the coming years. Then, once you've got a handle on your own hang ups and how you can or can't know things, explore religious and scientific worldviews again.
Trust me, you'll have a much more informed opinion if you give it a try. I have *faith* in that.
Andrew, to claim faith and trust are synonymous is to completely ignore how those words are actually used by people. They are most definitely NOT the same thing.
How many times have we heard words like "nothing will shake MY faith!" This is not the same as trust. Trust is broken all the time. People complain about it. "I trusted you, and you betrayed my trust." Trust is earned, or granted tentatively, and it is fragile. Trust is usually broken when the evidence indicates that trust is not warranted.
Faith does not share these traits. It is not earned–children are told in their earliest years that they MUST have it. It is demanded of us. It demands exemption from all evidence. All too often when I debate the existence of God with someone, and they reach the end of their efforts at arguing by evidence, they fall back on–"well, you have to have FAITH too!" Sometimes they'll use other holier sounding phrases, like "witness of the holy spirit," but will usually admit after questioning that they mean "faith".
I know theists often don't like the plain truth spoken in forthright terms, but the truth is this–"faith" is the word used by believers when evidence and logic fail to justify their beliefs.
Oh stop it with the semantics. Faith doesn't mean trust, not in the sense of faith in god. It means BELIEF. I can trust my supervisor at work. I know he exists. I trust in his ability to run our unit. I have faith in his abilities. It's different. For god, there is not one single objective piece of evidence of his existence. To belief in him, FAITH is required, because there's no way to verify he exists. Stop the equivocation, you know that's not the definition of faith people are arguing about.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Christians and Atheists fighting over who is right.
I can't think of a less worthy and more fruitless endeavor.
*facepalm*
Sandra you might want to send your facepalm to Texas.
Bill Nye: Debate Over Evolution In Texas Schools Is Jeopardizing Our Future
Posted: 11/23/2013 5:01 pm EST | Updated: 11/23/2013 7:28 pm EST
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/23/evolution-in-texas-schools_n_4330218.html
Cosmic Evolution (=Big bang) and Biologic Evolution has actually occurred absolutely and only by the Commandment of GOD.
Here is The Ultimate Evidence:
http://www.holy-19-harvest.com
UNIVERSAL MAGNIFICENT MIRACLES
This is the most ridiculous fairy tale – & people are really supposed to believe this..!? I can see how dumb desert people from 2000 years ago or even until the 19th century could buy it, but how...HOW are people still so uneducated that they can think this is real – it's 2013 people! C'mon, any idiot with a 5th grade education could see through this; I stopped buying into it around the time I stopped believing in Santa Clause & the tooth fairy. Time to grow up & take responsibility for your own lives people! And to stop pushing dogma on the world. I know you're scared of 'the unknown' & being 'alone' but grow some courage/intellect, face it, and start living your lives for yourselves!
I'm sorry but illogical stories from a 2000 year old book, irrational hear-say about the life/death/resurrection of Jesus, and "the inexplicable" in life are NOT "evidence" for a magic man in the sky who grants wishes. You're not the only ones with "the real" god and creation myth either – don't forget about the ancient greeks, pagans, buddhists, mayans, american indians, hindus, muslims, etc...
The stupidity of atheism is Total
that means the stupidity of religion….is total plus one.
if the roman catholics and muslim is wrong,, atheist is very very wrong and bad the bullyer of the god,, and this is 100 % death penelthy is the funishment for this religion, , no 1 enemy of god and jesus,,, using name of jesus to insult the father,, this is real evil,, like hitler
You are an ignorant idiot.
You are a perfect example of the stupidity of the religious INDUSTRY, you can quote the bible but can't spell even simple words.
Keep it up the more you write the more you PROVE the truth of ATHEISM.
Haha! I was thinking the same thing. I hope this guy joins the other morons & starts making creationism vids on youtube
GOOD NEWS
The brain game – the brain that evolution created.
Big brains are all in the genes
Nov 28, 2013 by Marie Daniels
During evolution, different mammal species have experienced variable degrees of expansion in brain size. An important goal of neurobiology is to understand the genetic changes underlying these extraordinary adaptations.
Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-11-big-brains-genes.html#jCp
"They refuse to look at the real world.
They refuse to look at the evidence we have, and they offer none," Silverman said.
Here is The Evidence you are asking for, Mr. Silverman!
http://www.holy-19-harvest.com
==UNIVERSAL MAGNIFICENT MIRACLES==
Silverman is an intelligent man who would most certainly laugh at you, as most of us do. Stop spreading your lies and propaganda and stealing advertising from CNN...according to your own beliefs lying and theft is a sin, hope you enjoy your time with your imaginary friends imaginary enemy. 🙂
Good News you keep post the same crap.
There was anews on the local level last night about a new dinosaur found in the US and it is 100 million years old.
By the way Good News the NEW dino find sinks the ark and Ham's creation museum with facts.
And this is hilarious Good News, the Mormons are paying for their recruiting efforts on CNN.
Hopefully no one is clicking on the banner.
Look up the meaning of EVIDENCE it is NOT fairy tales as your web site is.
You poor fool.
Cosmic Evolution (=Big bang) and Biologic Evolution has actually occurred absolutely and only by the Commandment of GOD.
Here is The Ultimate Evidence for all "atheistic evolution" proponents or/and "theistic anti evolution" adherents here:
http://www.holy-19-harvest.com
UNIVERSAL MAGNIFICENT MIRACLES
Basically, Jarhead is making mountains of molehills. In the United States Christmas is as much a cultural holiday as it is a religious one. Historically, Christmas and many of it's traditions were stolen from pagan celebrations. Personally, I celebrate Christmas with my christian sister and her family, Hanukkah with my Jewish sister and her family, and consider my holiday to be more in line with Saturnalia, the Roman mid-winter celebration which is much older than christianity, and involves giving gifts and celebrating with loved ones.
Jarhead wants to share his holiday spirit by calling people names. People like him are just another reason I'm glad I left religion behind me. I don't need that kind of pettiness in my life.
It would be fascinating to have jarhead's children read this forum and to watch and listen as he explains that there really isn't any actual evidence for a supernatural jesus or any other god, that religion is all mythology, in essence, just like Santa Claus.
Please do not wish that upon children, it is truly frightening to imagine.
You have to crack a couple of eggs to make cake. . .
Better they discover the truth as early as possible. Best if they weren't indoctrinated from birth.
I'm afraid some of the children born to these believers will be horribly disowned by their parents once the children realize and potentially admit they no longer accept their parents beliefs.
Perhaps, but the alternative is to tolerate the status quo. I don't think what you, I, parents or religious shamans think will matter much – children today have access to so much information they will eventually make the right decision, that is discard childish religious beliefs. But we might have to help them a little by letting them know it is ok to challenge the cults.
True enough. 🙂
Where in our great country are you? I know Doc Vestibule is in Ontario, AtheistSteve and myself are in NB.
In the worst possible place for a liberal (small and big 'L') – Calgary.
I would not have guessed that as being the case. How are you recovering after the flooding?
I was not directly affected. City of Calgary seems to be doing well as it has the resources and infrastructure to better absorb disaster. Smaller towns are still struggling but getting better.
Jarhead333,
Christians LOVE to tell everyone how to run their lives. But when they are asked tough questions about their Bible or the beliefs of themselves or fellow Christians, they usually are TOO AFRAID to answer (as seen tonight).
Why are so many Christians so lacking in INTEGRITY that they won't give HONEST answers? That's pathetic and disgraceful.
When was I ever dishonest? When did you ever ask about the Bible, or my beliefs? You asked questions, I gave answers, and it did not satisfy you. There is nothing that you can understand about Christians, nor do you even want to hear it.
jarhead333,
jarhead333
"There is nothing that you can understand about Christians, nor do you even want to hear it."
lol. I was raised Christian and nearly all of my friends are Christians. Once again, you've made a fool of yourself.
jarhead333,
Speaking of your beliefs, do you believe EVERY word of the Bible (supporting slavery, discriminations, beating helpless chldren, etc.) or are you just another HYPOCRITICAL Christian who just picks and chooses?
"Now ask Christian children if they are excited about them and what excites them the most about those holidays."
That tells me that you know what Christian children think. You say that I have not answered anything, but you have not read my previous posts then. I have told you that yes, my kids are excited about Christmas, and they are excited about receiving gifts. They have also expressed a bigger interest in shopping for things for the needy. I think I have answered your questions. Why are you so fussy?
jarhead333
How about some answers for a change? You keep PRETENDING that I didn't ask you which of TWO CHOICES was more likely. That was THE QUESTION. Is English a problem for you?
So for the 4th or 5th time:
Does Santa Claus skip the homes of Christian children and mainly go to the homes of atheists?
Ask Christian children 2 questions:
(1) Are you excited that Christmas is coming?
(2) What are you the most excited about?
Any wagers as to whether the 2nd answer will more often involve the name Jesus or Santa Claus?
Are you going to answer or just keep tap-dancing?
Not sure how much more simple I can explain it. Santa is not real. My kids do not believe in Santa. They understand that Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ. When asked at school, my kids tell them how they understand it. It has never been an issue. If that is not an answer to your question, then there is no other way to phrase it.
jarhead333,
You are just making a fool of yourself. I have NEVER asked you what your kids specifically believed. I obviously am talking about Christian children overall. You keep pathetically trying to change the question.
So, I'll rephrase it again to make you come up with another DODGE.
So for the 6th or 7th time:
Does Santa Claus skip the homes of Christian children and mainly go to the homes of atheists? (Still NO EFFORT at an answer at all from you).
Ask the HUGE MAJORITY of Christian children 2 questions:
(1) Are you excited that Christmas is coming?
(2) What are you the most excited about?
Will the MAJORITY of answers to the 2nd question more often involve the name Jesus or Santa Claus?
The clock is still ticking. How much longer will you try to AVOID the questions or will you just run away?
Im starting to think you cannot read. SANTA IS NOT REAL. As for atheist, see my original question, which is the only legitimate response I received. If you have an issue reading, my question was, Do atheists celebrate Christmas. That was a question only Tom Tom ansered. As for the MAJORITY of children, how can I answer that? I know you think you speak for the masses, but you don't. There is nothing you can do to disprove our faith, though you love to put it down.
jarhead333,
lol. SO your response to a simple 2-option question is to waste 7 or 8 replies when a ONE-WORD answer would suffice every time.
YOU AND I BOTH know the answer. You are ONLY FOOLING yourself. No one else is likely buying your DODGES.
I have a lot of respect for people who regularly post on this blog. You are not one. I have answered your questions many times. You cannot read. I still do not understand the issues that atheists have with Christians, and you do not make things better. You do not have any rational insight. It is ironic though. The idea that Christians are intolerant, you express as an atheist against another group of people (Christians), solely based on what they believe. That is sad.
jarhead333
"I have a lot of respect for people who regularly post on this blog. You are not one."
I would have a lot more respect for you if you had the INTEGRITY to answer the question. Obviously you were AFRAID to. If the answer was Jesus you would have answered immediately. Instead you showed just how HONEST you are.
My apologies, I said Christ in my VERY FIRST RESPONSE, not Jesus. Sorry you were confused.
jarhead333
"My apologies, I said Christ in my VERY FIRST RESPONSE"
YOUR VERY FIRST RESPONSE: "Regardless of faith, doesn't Christmas usually involve Jesus or Santa Clause? I don't understand your point. I do enjoy Christmas, and I am looking forward to it."
Ooooops.
Do atheists celebrate Christmas? I am just curious.
As you might imagine, some do and some don't. Those that do are not celebrating the birth of Christ, but are enjoying a traditional holiday. Many of the traditional elements antedate Christianity anyway, so many people aren't at all uncomfortable with it.
I know quite a few non-Christians who absolutely love the music associated with Christmas and participate in performances. Some of the best music in the European traditions was composed specifically for Christmas.
Thanks. I was honestly just curious if it was something that was protested among atheists. I figured it couldn't be with as much shopping that is done.
As Christmas is actually a holiday stolen from the pagans, I have to wonder why christians celebrate it.
Blah blah blah. Stolen Pagan holiday. Heard it before. To the people who believe, and that is what the holiday represents, then why would people who do not believe celebrate it?
jarhead333,
Ask Christian children 2 questions:
(1) Are you excited that Christmas is coming?
(2) What are you the most excited about?
Any wagers as to whether the 2nd answer will more often involve the name Jesus or Santa Claus?
Regardless of faith, doesn't Christmas usually involve Jesus or Santa Clause? I don't understand your point. I do enjoy Christmas, and I am looking forward to it.
jarhead333,
"Regardless of faith, doesn't Christmas usually involve Jesus or Santa Clause?"
Of course. Santa Claus means as much to Christians kids as the Easter Bunny does for them at Easter. Neither have anything to do with religion, so why shouldn't everyone be free to enjoy the party if they want? My guess is that a lot of atheists don't want their kids to feel left out.
"Santa Claus means as much to Christians kids as the Easter Bunny" Really? I do not know a ton of Christians that celebrate either. We do not in my house, or most people I am in contact with. I am not saying that it doesn't happen, but there are Christians who do not do that.
jarhead333
"Santa Claus means as much to Christians kids as the Easter Bunny" Really? I do not know a ton of Christians that celebrate either."
So are you saying that Santa Claus doesn't go to many Christian childrens houses and that he mostly goes to the houses of atheists? I have never talked to a Christian child that said that Santa Claus doesn't come to their house, but I'm sure it must happen for someone. It's got to be interesting when they talk to all the other kids about the presents they got.
Are you even being serious? Christian children know the meaning of Christmas. Most do get presents, as did Jesus. They understand that we give gifts to people we care about, including the needy.
jarhead333
"Are you even being serious? Christian children know the meaning of Christmas."
You are the one who needs to get serious. Yes, Christian children know the meaning of Christmas and Easter.
Now ask Christian children if they are excited about them and what excites them the most about those holidays.
GET REAL. Santa Claus and the Easter bunny are non-religious characters that sell the holidays to Christian children and others.
What makes you an expert on Christian children. Obviously nothing. If I was to ask an atheist child their thoughts on the universe, could they explain? My children are excited about Christmas. While they do enjoy presents, I assure you that they also enjoy giving to others. In fact, my kids have asked more about other people this year, which makes it hard for me to find out what they want.
jarhead333
What makes you an expert on Christian children?
How about some answers for a change?
Does Santa Claus skip the homes of Christian children and mainly go to the homes of atheists?
Ask Christian children 2 questions:
(1) Are you excited that Christmas is coming?
(2) What are you the most excited about?
Any wagers as to whether the 2nd answer will more often involve the name Jesus or Santa Claus?
Stumped?
We did this about an hour ago. Please read what has already been posted. I am starting to think you are a little slow. How about some answers? How about you tell me what makes you an expert on Christian children.
jarhead333
lol. You haven't answered ANYTHING yet. All your STALLING is fooling NO ONE BUT YOURSELF.
I NEVER said I was an expert on Christian children. Don't worry about getting that wrong, you've been wrong on so much.
SO where are your answers? Still COMPLETELY STUMPED?
Yes, my kids are excited about receiving gifts. They have also been very excited about picking out things for the needy. I am not sure what more you want me to answer. They do not believe in Santa Clause, and never have.
"Now ask Christian children if they are excited about them and what excites them the most about those holidays."
That tells me that you know what Christian children think. You say that I have not answered anything, but you have not read my previous posts then. I have told you that yes, my kids are excited about Christmas, and they are excited about receiving gifts. They have also expressed a bigger interest in shopping for things for the needy. I think I have answered your questions. Why are you so fussy?
Blah, blah, blah yourself. The fact remains that Christmas and many of it's traditions are stolen from pagans. Rather like Easter. So why do you celebrate pagan holidays if you are a christian?
jarhead333,
Of course many atheists celebrate Christmas. What child wouldn't want Santa Claus to come?
No. We are forced to take holidays and vacation time during the believer cult's holy days. We observe Greedy Gift Getting Season.
That is more like what I expected. An opportunity for atheists.
What opportunity?
The opportunity to have days off and greedily give gifts.
Not quite, at least where I worked. In addition to the statutory holidays we were forced to use vacation time off or time off with no pay so that the company could shut down and save money. This practice got started when the company was in financial difficulty and it got hooked on this cost saving measure (actual operational savings plus reduction of vacation time liabilities), with HR spinning it as a great time/way to spend more time with your family. If you didn't have vacation time to cover the forced time off, or had other other plans, too bad. In essence, the company gave you X days per year of vacation and then told you how to consume 2-4 of them each year thereby reducing their labour costs by about 1%. Of course, no revenue goals were relaxed because the company was shut down. Anyway, the whole thing was a scam made possible by the observation of cult holidays and greedy management. The Greedy Gift a Getting Season bit is a comment on the true nature of the period.
Sounds like your situation sucks. So you blame it on a religion, and not the company? Sounds like a vendetta against Christianity, and you were looking where to place the blame.
I believe I clearly wrote the situation was enabled by observing cult holidays AND greedy management. No vendetta, just a statement of fact. Lucky for me I'm retired now.
Lucky for you is right. That damn religion. Couldn't be that company you worked for, that would be ridiculous.
It all started with the observance of religious cult holidays, that management took advantage of, but you seem incapable of comprehending that.
Yep, because no other companies give time off for Christmas.
Not to mention, the rest of the country should bow down to your lack of faith in God. Seems legit.
Why should a secular country set aside time for cult holidays? Why shouldn't private enterprise be allowed to handle employee time off themselves, with no direct reference to any cult?
A secular country would mean that most companies do not recognize Christmas. The fact is, they do. I am sorry for your experience, but it is not the fault of Christians (cult religion).
I didn't say it was the fault of the dead jew cult. Clearly a supposedly secular country is catering to a particular cult. You can argue about how that came to be (was it government, business, citizens, the cult, etc. that forced the establishment of cult based holidays?) but you can't argue that it is not happening. You just want to maintain the status quo that favors your cult. I would prefer that no cults be favored.
Then move.
Yup, just another "maintain the status quo" "my country, right or wrong" intellectual. . .
"Christmas" is celebrated also by idolaters pagan roman catholics. So that fact alone ought to tell you something. In this atheists are right. Because nobody knows when Christ was born, but for sure WAS NOT in winter.
There is nothing in the Scriptures that allows for such speculations. Even the worst sinners, delinquents and criminals celebrate it. That is not going to Save anyone. It is indeed a festivity with no Biblical/Scriptural support, it is completely of pagan origins and adapted by the roman church to distract and entertain their large ignorant and illiterate following.
In this I concede the point to atheists.
So your problem is with the date? Funny. Many different countries celebrate the new year on different dates. Does that also make January first wrong? Funny, but the pagan card was already used. My question was, why would an atheist celebrate it. Regardless of the origin.
I celebrate because in this day and age where time is of the essence and we have moved out of our farming communities in to much more metropolis like settings, family time with the extended (Aunt's, Uncle's, cousin's, etc) is less heard of and so we celebrate the day for that purpose.
You can try to deny the fact that it is a pagan holiday all you wish and keep saying you've heard it but facts are facts. If you are celebrating it for the christian aspect of it, you in turn are celebrating a theft of sorts. There are no historical records that indicate December being the month of Jesus' birth, if he existed at all everything points to a spring birth. Christmas was used to try to convert pagans and sadly it worked for too many.
Due to the fact that it is religion that forces the day off, I am left no choice but to recognize it. Christians celebrate the greed as much as anyone else does. Personally I don't need a special day to give gifts, I can do that any time of the year, so to me it is about family.
I was raised in a Catholic household. Even back then Christmas was both a religious and a secular holiday. We attended midnight mass to celebrate the birth of Jesus as a matter of tradition. Far more important to us as children was the idea of a visit from Santa and opening gifts laid under the tree and our candy stuffed stockings on the mantle.
With the eventual discovery that Santa was make believe Christmas lost its magical appeal. The Jesus story was already second fiddle and the realization that we were lied to about Santa by our parents didn't help matters here either. In retrospect my eventual path to atheism probably began here. No longer was it good enough to simply accept what I was told. The seeds of only believing in things that were supported by facts and evidence were in place and slowly grew. I was in my teens when I finally came to the conclusion that God was just like Santa...fictional.
But every year the Christmas celebrations continued. Still important but now more grounded in the reality of personal experience of spending time with family, gifting, good food and drink.
Your lack of honesty does not surprise me, since Catholics as idolaters are also liars. I clearly said that for sure was not in Winter. I also said that there is nothing in the Bible/Scriptures that support such speculations. The birth date of Jesus is unknown. We don't even know the year, neither the month or season and if we don't know that; how are to know the date? The atheists do have a point, their argument in this particular case is correct. The roman church is a Politico-religious organization with financial and social interests in the world. Their interests are not in the Kingdom of Heaven but in the kingdoms of the world. The RCC is not even a true church much less the Church. IDOLATRY is an aberrant, abhorrent, abominable, defiling, detestable, perverted and vile SIN
So then... I may have to say that atheism is 99.9999 percent stupidity all over, anywhere, everywhere, here, there, anytime all the time, every single time and forevermore. On second thought... not really.. is still Total.
I suspect this sums up many atheists' views on Christmas. Worth a listen regardless of your particular position as I believe it captures some common sentiments from both sides . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCNvZqpa-7Q
I celebrate Christmas because I enjoy the time being spent with the family. It's more about them than any religion or outdated tradition. They are Christian, I am a former christian. I respect their beliefs, I just don't interpret them the same way.
OK atheists. If you think is so bad here, then; how bad do you think (if you can think) is going to be in the other place that IS NOT Heaven and for all of ETERNITY??
If you can think (which I doubt) think about it!!
Nobody actually cares what you have to say, troll.
Then why are you so stupid to care to answer to stupid salterio? Are you a stupid atheist?
I'm touched. I don't believe you've ever cared enough to use my name before. Does that mean you actually read my stuff?
Atheists you must cease and desist of the Total stupidity of atheism. Otherwise you all will spend Eternity in the other place that IS NOT Heaven.
Once there is for all of Eternity the Particle is not going to get you out of there, neither the amoeba, the soup, the bang, the energy, the plasma, the monkey or the evolution.
OK atheists you loose, you lie, you fail! That's why I'm still saying that atheism is Total stupidity all over, anywhere, here, there, everywhere, anytime, all the time, every single time and forevermore. There is only one thing you can do about it and that is cease and desist of your Total stupidity all over, anywhere, everywhere, here, there, anytime, all the time and every single time.
THANKS GOD
You are an idiot.
you are no better, you so stupid. Because of people like is that salerio is here calling us all stupid, because you are!!
I wouldn't take that to mean anything. He calls everyone stupid, even the ones that post science links.
Thank Jebus for all the starving children who died today.
A deity of such power and might has never been seen before. Not.
Yeah god.
Yeah, all while you stuffed yourself with that fat and sugar!
He will hold u accountable for all u didn't do
Richard Dawkins answers the question: what makes us human? | BBC Radio 2
by Jeremy Vine posted on November 28, 2013 03:24PM GMT
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01mbskx
The atheists are all wrong! Because atheism is Total stupidity.
I beginning to agree! 🙁
faith, who is gutless, insists on stealing other aliases to TRY to get some CREDIBILITY at all.
As always, she fails.
You lie you fail! Liars are failures losers. You do the same don't lie. 😀 I'm the real Observer you are a fake..
Atheism is the logical conclusion given an absolute absence of evidence to the contrary. That makes atheism sane, rational and honest.
Stupidity is blindly accepting ridiculous fairy tales of supernatural nonsense.
Glad I could clear that up for you.
Conclusions based on lack of evidence?? Are you talkin' law pr science??
Standard Christian doctrine,
A)The existence of the physical world reveals the power of God and insights into His character.
B)The perfect law reveals man's incapacity and duty to obey. Your guilt should lead to the Savior; accountability is assured.
C)Some will not "get it". Want to spend eternity with these??
Street Epistemology
An Interview with Peter Boghossian
– See more at: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/street-epistemology#sthash.AXWWrHZa.dpuf
"The existence of the physical world reveals the power of God and insights into His character."
How? Why? The existence of the physical world reveals no such thing. It merely confirms that reality has form and structure. Does your god have form and structure? If so please be the first to elaborate.
"The perfect law reveals man's incapacity and duty to obey"
What perfect law? What does that even mean? Why do you believe it's perfect when it was penned by(using your logic) imperfect men? You are so far down the rabbit hole that the light of reason is completely hidden.
I know you've probably not actually explored the topic much based on this meaningless response, but just to give you a taste of what you will find if you do ever choose to expand your knowledge base... I would think you probably will, since you've identified yourself by your belief set.
Religious folks exist, and an awful lot of them. They do not simply respond to a fear of death or an inability to imagine where the world came from, but rather billions self-report an experience with the divine. For those who have not, it's often likened to an intuitive response, though clearly it's much deeper than that. People do not give away their life savings 'on a hunch.'
In hundreds of different countries, with different cultures, languages, and faith systems, people report similar experiences with the divine. When multiple people observe, in any sense of the word, the same phenomena, that is evidence.
If you care to deny that fact, you risk the corner stone of the opposition's view. All of secular/scientific/humanist/determinism views stem from the very same evidence: many people observe the same thing. If you don't trust other people's experiences in their religious life, why do you trust another's experiences in scientific exploration?
Don't bother with a hollow "well I could observe it for myself" or a facile attempt to distinguish one's observations and evidence and another's as a delusion. No one is actually observing in its totality the implications of a purely secular worldview. For the latter, there's no way for you to know that. There's no way to even begin to make such a distinction.
The trouble with religion therefore does not actual stem from a lack of evidence, but from other issues. The variations, for example, in similar contexts. Note that the variations over time are not at all a threat to a religious view point, as variations in the secular viewpoint have actually varied just as much, arguably more, across human history. In fact, much of what is understood as 'obvious' today, scientists even 100 years ago disagreed about.
tl;dr?
Don't be so quick to put stock in one group's experiences, if you're going to outright dismiss another's.
I would suggest, if they're actually trying to attract atheists, they should talk about proof and reason to believe in their god, not just some pithy play on words," Silverman said.
Here is The Proof and The Reason, Mr. Silverman!
http://www.holy-19-harvest.com
UNIVERSAL MAGNIFICENT MIRACLES
Amen! oops ...I'm not affiliated either way.
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