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October 15th, 2013
09:42 AM ET

Malaysian court says Christian paper can't use 'Allah'

(CNN) - A Malaysian court ruled Monday that a Christian newspaper could not use "Allah" to refer to God. Ram Ramgopal reports

MORE ON CNN: Do Christians, Muslims and Jews worship the same God?

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (242 Responses)
  1. romny chavez

    Hi Dear Malaysian, I went to Turkey . An old civilization where the criusader and Arab warlord fight . The Persian warlord won the battle . A Famous Church was converted to Mosque at Istanbul . The Mosque is Blue Mosque. Aiya Sofia ( I may spell it wrongly) . My Sincere apology. The tour guide inform us that there is Mother Marry Carried Jesus in the middle of two Arabic Word . Left ( Nabi Mohamed ) , Right ( Allah, God) . In the Middle , I Mother Marry carried Jesus . Let us realised this fact. We all respect each other . Our ancestrer knew that fact is fact . We all wasting time debating on the Allah and God . Vietnamese at the North Say "Kam En" , Thank You . Vietnamese from the South say " Kam Man " , Thanks you as well. Why we are so choosy on the words to say thank you and praise the Lord . It is an evolution . My son, 4 years old create his own language . He say " daddy , pls jeng jeng jeng my leg " . " I fill itchy ...." He create his own words . Accidentally , he may say aaaaaa laaaaaaaa hhhhhhhh for some incident . Will he be punished ? Let focus on more important ting in life. Maybe water saving , goes green and productivity . Make Malaysia a better place to stay ....

    October 21, 2013 at 8:44 pm |
  2. Baliases

    Shit
    Sh
    it

    HOW DOES THIS WORK?

    October 18, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
  3. Karen

    that's simple just call God Alloh. or Alleih. I don't see the problem. Simple change of vowel should do the trick.

    October 18, 2013 at 1:58 am |
  4. Bob

    Since 'kindness' seems compelled to dump bible bile on us, let's have a look at what's really in there:

    Numbers 31:17-18
    17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
    18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

    Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

    Leviticus 25
    44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
    45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
    46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

    Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

    Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

    And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

    So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

    October 17, 2013 at 9:21 pm |
    • Michael McCollum

      Nice Cherry Pick there Bob. Shows what you know about the Bible. Just like stupid Christians, you think its one big book. So you picked the parts you wanted, bashed, and ran. How are you different than the ignorant Christians who cherry pick their passages, invoke the ones they like, and run? Get over your self.
      Funny how you'd never invoke Matthew 5:44 as an example of hatred. Because you can't.

      I'm not a follower of these religions, but I'm getting sick of the bloated self delusional atheists who think they are experts in the Bible, history, and the cosmos. They are a bunch of clowns who need to admit they want their own church, the Church of the Elevated Ego.

      October 18, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
      • Cherry-picking can be used for all kinds of purposes

        whether you are a believer or not. I have to suppose the Mexican Christian sect that sacrificed a few people a couple of years ago were "cherry-picking" to justify their own interpretation and fears. I don't see you addressing anything specific Bob wrote, so why the gripe? With thousands of Christian sects, who isn't "cherry-picking"?

        October 18, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
      • EvolvedDNA

        Mike are you an expert on myths then?

        October 18, 2013 at 9:35 pm |
    • patthepatriot

      So what did that unseemingly diatribe have to do with the article ? Do you have some sort of disease, like torretts, that just makes you become rude and spastic ? I could give a rats a** what you think about the bible. But it had nothing to do with the article. Instead you decided to force your views upon everyone else. Isn't that your complaint of christians ? Your nothing but a poser, a hypocrite.

      October 22, 2013 at 7:44 pm |
  5. highplainsparson

    This is insane. Islam is new compared to Christianity. Muhammed took the name for the new islamic god from the name of the God of the Christians and Jews, "Allah", and reinvented it. If anything it should be the Muslims who are forbidden to use this word.

    October 17, 2013 at 11:26 am |
    • Ally

      Reinvented? You can't be that obtuse, right? "Allah" is Arabic for God, which was the original language of Muhammad and his people. Alah/Aloh/Ilah come from the Aramaic/ Hebrew language, which also means God. How do you reinvent a language thats been around for centuries? Perhaps, YOU need to reinvent a way to put your ideas across without sounding like a bigot.

      November 13, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
      • highplainsparson

        He reinvented the definition of the word in that he reinvented god. The God of Islam is not the God of Christianity. He took the word Christians used for God, "Allah", but He did not take the Christian conception of who God is, His essence and attributes.

        November 13, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
  6. bill

    Ah yes, modern moderate Malysia

    October 16, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • Sara

      One scary-ass country. I love Indonesia, but I won't step foot in Malaysia these days despite its relative wealth. Largely built on illegal Indonesian immigrant labor, of course.

      October 16, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
  7. Ted

    Everyone should click the 'Report abuse' link on all comments by AvdBerg. AvdBerg is a notorious blog linkspammer that CNN has had to deal with before.

    October 16, 2013 at 10:01 am |
  8. Sara

    Allah, god of the Christians and Hindus. May he have many more children with Hera.

    We're talking about a country here that gives preference only if you meet both race AND religion requirements (better not try to convert!) and whose officials recently tried to a) raise speed limits for more expensive cars (like, you know, they own) and b) allow government officials to take extra wives. Malaysia is a joke and this just adds to the pile of things to laugh about.

    October 15, 2013 at 11:52 pm |
  9. CommonSensed

    Hey, Malaysia. I'm drawing a cartoon of Mohammed right now.

    Enjoy.

    October 15, 2013 at 11:31 pm |
  10. Lionly Lamb

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g79HokJTfPU&w=640&h=360]

    October 15, 2013 at 8:35 pm |
  11. Science Assistant

    Scientists have discovered the last blood meal of a 46 million-year-old female mosquito, and isolated a little fragment of the protein in it, too.

    The findings, published this week in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, show that even if DNA can’t survive tens of millions of years, other biomolecules might.

    Most of the blood-sucking bugs found as fossils are biting midges, not mosquitoes. There are about 200 described species of extinct midges and midgelike flies, but only 25 species of fossil mosquitoes. So this fossil of a female mosquito from Montana, called USNM 559050, still gorged from its last meal, was a lucky find, the researchers said.

    “The preservation of fossil female mosquito USNM 559050 was an extremely improbable event,” the authors wrote. “The insect had to take a blood meal, be blown to the water’s surface, and sink to the bottom of a pond or similar lacrustine structure to be quickly embedded in fine anearobic sediment, all without disruption of its fragile distended blood filled abdomen.”

    October 15, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • Jurrasic Park

      Reminds me of the intro to Jurassic Park. You just never know what might happen with cloning and all that (one day anyway).

      October 15, 2013 at 7:05 pm |
    • james

      "lucky find"? you try to sound so scientific and then share your knowledge with "the god of good luck? (Isa.65:11) and 46 million years? sounds like another Piltdown man, and you think christians are foolish?

      October 16, 2013 at 9:53 am |
      • tallulah13

        Making fun of science doesn't make it go away, James. It doesn't work like that. Learning is good. You should get over your fear. Education isn't scary; the pastors and politicians just say it is because they are afraid that once you can think for yourself, you won't need them anymore.

        October 16, 2013 at 10:03 am |
        • james

          not making fun of but questioning. and I have seen some of your posts and the way you feel about "pastors and politicians" is agreed with but be careful about following people who talk in "millions" of years that can not be verified any more than the Book you trivialize. Just like the great science is doing that Book has helped many but has been corrupted by those who like the false scientists will reap what they sow, "do not be misled", see (Gal.6:7)

          October 16, 2013 at 10:25 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          The age of the Earth is far more than a handful of thousand years.
          Geochronology has advanced a great deal in the last few decades. Beyond carbon dating, scientists measure the age of the Earth by examining Cosmogenic Nuclides, optically stimulated luminescence, cathodoluminescence, thermoluminescence, Dendrochronology, Ice Cores, Lichenometry, varves, Magnetostratigraphy, and Tephrochronology.
          The combination of data from all these methods gives an accurate representation of the age of materials.

          October 16, 2013 at 10:58 am |
        • james

          With all this knowledge can we ever give the proper worship and praise to the One that put it all in motion for us to Wonder at so many aeons ago?

          October 16, 2013 at 11:19 am |
        • tallulah13

          James, if the science were wrong it would be exposed as wrong. That's the beauty of science. It's highly competi tive, and constantly reviewed and tested. Anything shown to be false is, upon detection, dismissed or corrected.

          Contrast that with religion. Not long ago, people were being tortured or imprisoned or even killed for pointing out the mistakes in the bible. People in Africa, even children, are still being tortured and killed as witches because of that book. I'll put my faith in those who seek the honest answers, not in those who glibly pretend that an old book of middle eastern myths holds all the answers they need.

          October 16, 2013 at 11:20 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          And who, exactly, set it all in motion?
          Who or what put the motion setter in motion?
          Positing a Creator puts you in a loop of infinite regression – who created the Creator?
          To assert that The Creator has no creator is the same as saying that the Universe itself has no creator.

          October 16, 2013 at 11:31 am |
        • james

          one more time i will answer you 2 but have been here before and know where it will go but since my last post went into cyberspace i will just say that I have been where you are and it is not where I want to go. I learned that the word of God is in fact truth and not a bunch of myths but has been twisted and corrupted by those that would have you pay for your salvation and knowledge but that is not the original intention of the message so if you want to learn what the Bible really teaches go to jw.org and learn freely where we came from and where we can possibly go. it is just a suggestion so save your criticism because I will not waste any more of yours or my time today, thanks, j

          October 16, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
      • EvolvedDNA

        James..I do not think you were ever where we are today. I think, sadly, that you wish you could have come this far, but you retreated from the truth. If you ever understood the science you would not be back at the fountain of myth.

        October 18, 2013 at 9:59 pm |
    • Haime52

      Your comment has to do with the article, how?

      October 19, 2013 at 5:59 pm |
  12. Holiday songs

    So I guess changing the words from Fallah la la la la la la la is just completely out of the question?

    October 15, 2013 at 6:21 pm |
    • Alias

      Celebrating Xmass may be an issue for some people over there

      October 16, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      no more allah cart meals either

      October 18, 2013 at 10:01 pm |
    • El Allah Gott Yah

      Well while I've got ya

      October 25, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
  13. Christian

    LOL – So they can use word "fat guy in the sky". God is the only one true God – no need to talk about hmmmmm.... fat guy in the sky.

    October 15, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
  14. hallA

    hallA U Jessus.

    October 15, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
  15. Reality # 2

    All you Muslims out there:

    Belief in Allah"

    aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, Google, Bing, Yahoo etc. should be added to your self-cleansing neurons.

    October 15, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
  16. Atheist, me?

    1 John 4:20 NIV
    New International Version
    If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother,
    he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his
    brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God,
    whom he has not seen.

    October 15, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • tammy

      that reminds me of the twins from Redondo Beach. one could surf better than the other, but when the three of us were together, there was like nooooo competi-tion, dig?

      October 15, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
      • Atheist, me?

        1 John 4:20 GNT
        Good News Translation
        If we say we love God, but hate others, we are
        liars. For we cannot love God, whom we have not
        seen, if we do not love others, whom we have
        seen.

        October 15, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
        • tammy

          Atheist, me?, you must be a bad ,bad boy to keep repeating things.
          I like bad boys, and in the right place and with the right music,
          I like lots and lots and lots of repetti-tion..

          October 15, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
        • Madtown

          Good News Translation
          ---–
          Translation? Of God's word? How arrogant of any human being, to thing they are qualified to translate the word of God.

          October 15, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
        • EvolvedDNA

          madtown... i think you are confusing translated with interpretation? The bible is always interpreted to support an idea that needs a gods approval. You most likely read the bible written in the English language which would not have been assuming god existed in the first place, the language he would have spoken to Moses in.

          October 18, 2013 at 10:14 pm |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      Luke 14:26
      New International Version (NIV)

      “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.

      Contradict much?

      October 15, 2013 at 4:30 pm |
      • Reality # 2

        Said passage adds more credence to the following:

        . JC's family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 "And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.")

        Said passage is one of the few judged to be authentic by most contemporary NT scholars. e.g. See Professor Ludemann's conclusion in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 24 and p. 694. (Ditto for Luke 14: 26, pp. 361-362).

        Actually, Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.

        Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Many contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospel being mostly fiction.

        Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!

        So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher/magic man would do or say?

        October 15, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
        • Reality # 2

          Putting the OT and NT in proper 21st century context:

          1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

          “New Torah For Modern Minds

          Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

          Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

          The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “
          prob•a•bly
          Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.

          2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

          The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

          earlychristianwritings.com/

          For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

          Current RCC problems:

          Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

          2 b., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).

          Current problems:
          Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,

          October 16, 2013 at 11:48 pm |
      • Jesus' Beloved

        Context is everything. If you remove the text from it's proper context, all you're left with is a con.
        To whom was Jesus speaking when He said the quoted text... Self-righteous religionists or people genuinely seeking an answer.

        October 15, 2013 at 4:49 pm |
        • Reality # 2

          In Luke 14:26, many contemporary NT scholars believe JC was not happy with his parents or siblings and vice versa i.e. Mark 3: 21, "When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."

          October 15, 2013 at 11:59 pm |
        • G to the T

          Context is everything. And yet, christians insist on trying to read the gospels as a cohesive narrative instead of 4 very different books by 4 different authors with 4 very different interpretations about jesus, his teachings and what his death meant. By trying to read them as one giant "mega-gospel" you are destroying the context of each individual book.

          October 16, 2013 at 10:24 am |
    • Reality # 2

      John's Gospel is of questionable historic value.

      To wit:

      From Professor Bruce Chilton in his book, Rabbi Jesus,

      "Conventionally, scholarship has accorded priority to the first three gospels in historical work on Jesus, putting progressively less credence in works of late date. John's Gospel for example is routinely dismissed as a source......

      From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John#Authorship

      "Since "the higher criticism" of the 19th century, some historians have largely rejected the gospel of John as a reliable source of information about the historical Jesus.[3][4] "[M]ost commentators regard the work as anonymous,"[5] and date it to 90-100."

      "The authorship has been disputed since at least the second century, with mainstream Christianity believing that the author is John the Apostle, son of Zebedee. Modern experts usually consider the author to be an unknown non-eyewitness, though many apologetic Christian scholars still hold to the conservative Johannine view that ascribes authorship to John the Apostle."

      And from Professor Gerd Ludemann, in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 416,

      "Anyone looking for the historical Jesus will not find him in the Gospel of John. "

      See also http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/john.html

      October 15, 2013 at 4:45 pm |
      • Atheist, me?

        Ahem Mr Reality!
        1 John is the 1st Epistle of St John not his Gospel. Besides your mistake proves that if you do not practise the Bible's teaching you will not understand it

        October 16, 2013 at 5:57 am |
        • Reality # 2

          With respect to John' epistles, from Professor/Father Raymond Brown in his book, An Introduction to the New Testament, ,

          First Epistle of John, Authenticity- Certainly by a writer in the Johannine tradition, probably NOT by the one responsible for most of the Gospel.

          See also http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/1john.html

          October 16, 2013 at 7:15 am |
        • Atheist, me?

          Why, not brave enough to apologise?

          October 16, 2013 at 7:48 am |
        • Reality # 2

          Apologize for what? Pointing out that John's gospel and the other John's epistles are not associated with the Apostle John i.e. not an eye-witness account and therefore historically nil ?

          October 16, 2013 at 8:45 am |
        • Sara

          Reality # 2, I think the confusion is to why you raised the issue of the gospel at all, when that wasn't the topic?

          October 16, 2013 at 8:54 am |
      • Vic

        How do you explain the following example cross-references for passages in the Gospel of John?:

        http://www.openbible.info/labs/cross-references/search?q=John+1%3A14

        http://www.openbible.info/labs/cross-references/search?q=John+3%3A16

        http://www.openbible.info/labs/cross-references/search?q=John+3%3A17

        October 16, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
        • Reality # 2

          Plagiarizing by many authors explains some of the cross referencing. And looking at the "cross-referencing" on said sites makes one wonder where the connections are and finally we have this for those who really want to find the historic Jesus:

          o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.

          2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
          – a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication–

          30-60 CE Passion Narrative
          40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
          50-60 1 Thessalonians
          50-60 Philippians
          50-60 Galatians
          50-60 1 Corinthians
          50-60 2 Corinthians
          50-60 Romans
          50-60 Philemon
          50-80 Colossians
          50-90 Signs Gospel
          50-95 Book of Hebrews
          50-120 Didache
          50-140 Gospel of Thomas
          50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
          50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
          65-80 Gospel of Mark
          70-100 Epistle of James
          70-120 Egerton Gospel
          70-160 Gospel of Peter
          70-160 Secret Mark
          70-200 Fayyum Fragment
          70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
          73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
          80-100 2 Thessalonians
          80-100 Ephesians
          80-100 Gospel of Matthew
          80-110 1 Peter
          80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
          80-130 Gospel of Luke
          80-130 Acts of the Apostles
          80-140 1 Clement
          80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
          80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
          80-250 Christian Sibyllines
          90-95 Apocalypse of John
          90-120 Gospel of John
          90-120 1 John
          90-120 2 John
          90-120 3 John
          90-120 Epistle of Jude
          93 Flavius Josephus
          100-150 1 Timothy
          100-150 2 Timothy
          100-150 T-itus
          100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
          100-150 Secret Book of James
          100-150 Preaching of Peter
          100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
          100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
          100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
          100-160 2 Peter

           4. Jesus Database, http://www.faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/intro.html –"The JESUS DATABASE is an online a-nnotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
          5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bis-sar24.htm
          6. The Jesus Seminar, http://en.wikipedia.o-rg/wiki/Jesus_Seminar
          7. http://www.biblicalartifacts.com/items/785509/item785509biblicalartifacts.html – books on the health and illness during the time of the NT
          8. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.
          9.The Gn-ostic Jesus
          (Part One in a Two-Part Series on A-ncient and Modern G-nosticism)
          by Douglas Gro-othuis: http://www.equip.o-rg/articles/g-nosticism-and-the-g-nostic-jesus/
          10. The interpretation of the Bible in the Church, Pontifical Biblical Commission
          Presented on March 18, 1994
          ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM#2
          11. The Jesus Database- newer site:
          wiki.faithfutures.o-rg/index.php?t-itle=Jesus_Database
          12. Jesus Database with the example of S-u-pper and Eucharist:
          faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/jdb016.html
          13. Josephus on Jesus by Paul Maier:
          mtio.com/articles/bis-sar24.htm
          13. http://www.textweek.com/mtlk/jesus.htmm- Historical Jesus Studies
          14. The Greek New Testament: laparola.net/greco/
          15. D-iseases in the Bible:
          http://books.google.com/books/about/The_d-iseases_of_the_Bible.html?id=C1YZAAAAYAAJ

          16. Religion on Line (6000 articles on the history of religion, churches, theologies,
          theologians, ethics, etc.
          religion-online.o-rg/

           17. The New Testament Gateway – Internet NT ntgateway.com/
          18. Writing the New Testament- e-xisting copies, o-ral tradition etc.
          ntgateway.com/
          19. JD Crossan's c-onclusions about the a-uthencity of most of the NT based on the above plus the c-onclusions of other NT e-xege-tes in the last 200 years:
          http://wiki.faithfutures.o-rg/index.p-hp?t-itle=Crossan_Inventory
          20. Early Jewish Writings- Josephus and his books by t-itle with the complete translated work in English :earlyjewishwritings.com/josephus.html
          21. Luke and Josephus- was there a c-onnection?
          in-fidels.o-rg/library/modern/richard_carrier/lukeandjosephus.html
          22. NT and beyond time line:
          pbs.o-rg/empires/pe-terandpaul/history/timeline/
          23. St. Paul's Time line with discussion of important events:
          harvardhouse.com/prophetictech/new/pauls_life.htm
          24. See http://www.amazon.com for a list of JD Crossan's books and those of the other Jesus Seminarians: Reviews of said books are included and selected pages can now be viewed on Amazon. Some books can be found on-line at Google Books.
          25. Father Edward Schillebeeckx's words of wisdom as found in his books.
          27. The books of the following : Professors Gerd Ludemann, Marcus Borg, Paula Fredriksen, Elaine Pagels, Karen Armstrong and Bishop NT Wright.
          28. Father Raymond Brown's An Introduction to the New Testament, Doubleday, NY, 1977, 878 pages, with Nihil obstat and Imprimatur.
          29. Luke Timothy Johnson's book The Real Jesus

          October 16, 2013 at 11:58 pm |
        • Reality # 2

          Summarizing the above references for those who do not have the time to read them all:

          There was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
          preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
          named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
          girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

          Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
          the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

          He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
          a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
          Jerusalem.

          Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
          many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
          and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
          Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
          grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
          and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
          called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

          October 17, 2013 at 12:01 am |
  17. Sikh

    Guru Granth Sahib, Sikh Holy Scripture, Page 483
    ਆਸਾ ॥
    आसा ॥
    Āsā.
    Aasaa:

    ਰੋਜਾ ਧਰੈ ਮਨਾਵੈ ਅਲਹੁ ਸੁਆਦਤਿ ਜੀਅ ਸੰਘਾਰੈ ॥
    रोजा धरै मनावै अलहु सुआदति जीअ संघारै ॥
    Rojā ḏẖarai manāvai alhu su▫āḏaṯ jī▫a sangẖārai.
    You keep your fasts to please Allah, while you murder other beings for pleasure.

    ਆਪਾ ਦੇਖਿ ਅਵਰ ਨਹੀ ਦੇਖੈ ਕਾਹੇ ਕਉ ਝਖ ਮਾਰੈ ॥੧॥
    आपा देखि अवर नही देखै काहे कउ झख मारै ॥१॥
    Āpā ḏekẖ avar nahī ḏekẖai kāhe ka▫o jẖakẖ mārai. ||1||
    You look after your own interests, and so not see the interests of others. What good is your word? ||1||

    ਕਾਜੀ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਏਕੁ ਤੋਹੀ ਮਹਿ ਤੇਰਾ ਸੋਚਿ ਬਿਚਾਰਿ ਨ ਦੇਖੈ ॥
    काजी साहिबु एकु तोही महि तेरा सोचि बिचारि न देखै ॥
    Kājī sāhib ek ṯohī mėh ṯerā socẖ bicẖār na ḏekẖai.
    O Qazi, the One Lord is within you, but you do not behold Him by thought or contemplation.

    ਖਬਰਿ ਨ ਕਰਹਿ ਦੀਨ ਕੇ ਬਉਰੇ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਜਨਮੁ ਅਲੇਖੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    खबरि न करहि दीन के बउरे ता ते जनमु अलेखै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Kẖabar na karahi ḏīn ke ba▫ure ṯā ṯe janam alekẖai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    You do not care for others, you are a religious fanatic, and your life is of no account at all. ||1||Pause||

    ਸਾਚੁ ਕਤੇਬ ਬਖਾਨੈ ਅਲਹੁ ਨਾਰਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ॥
    साचु कतेब बखानै अलहु नारि पुरखु नही कोई ॥
    Sācẖ kaṯeb bakẖānai alhu nār purakẖ nahī ko▫ī.
    Your holy scriptures say that Allah is True, and that he is neither male nor female.

    ਪਢੇ ਗੁਨੇ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਛੁ ਬਉਰੇ ਜਉ ਦਿਲ ਮਹਿ ਖਬਰਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੨॥
    पढे गुने नाही कछु बउरे जउ दिल महि खबरि न होई ॥२॥
    Padẖe gune nāhī kacẖẖ ba▫ure ja▫o ḏil mėh kẖabar na ho▫ī. ||2||
    But you gain nothing by reading and studying, O mad-man, if you do not gain the understanding in your heart. ||2||

    ਅਲਹੁ ਗੈਬੁ ਸਗਲ ਘਟ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਲੇਹੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ ॥
    अलहु गैबु सगल घट भीतरि हिरदै लेहु बिचारी ॥
    Alhu gaib sagal gẖat bẖīṯar hirḏai leho bicẖārī.
    Allah is hidden in every heart; reflect upon this in your mind.

    ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਦੁਹੂੰ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੈ ਕਹੈ ਕਬੀਰ ਪੁਕਾਰੀ ॥੩॥੭॥੨੯॥
    हिंदू तुरक दुहूं महि एकै कहै कबीर पुकारी ॥३॥७॥२९॥
    Hinḏū ṯurak duhū▫aʼn mėh ekai kahai Kabīr pukārī. ||3||7||29||
    The One Lord is within both Hindu and Muslim; Kabeer proclaims this out loud. ||3||7||29||

    October 15, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
    • Reality # 2

      Only for the new visitors to this blog:

      Putting the kibosh on all religion in less than ten seconds: Priceless !!!

      • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

      • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

      • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

      • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

      • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

      • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

      • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

      • A constant cycle of reincarnation until enlightenment is reached and belief that various beings (angels?, tinker bells? etc.) exist that we, as mortals, cannot comprehend makes for a no on Sikhism.

      Added details available upon written request.

      October 15, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
  18. Vic

    Good discussions by posters, going over a bunch of comments!

    Obviously, the protestors in Malaysia themselves DON'T know the history/origin nor the meaning of the word they are using.

    Here are some quick references:

    [
    "Eli (Hebrew: עלי, Modern ʻEli Tiberian ʻĒlî, meaning "Ascent"; or "Yahweh is the most high/God on high", Ḗli; Latin: Heli, عالي Arabic: A'ali‎) was, according to the Books of Samuel, a High Priest of Shiloh ."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eli_%28Bible%29
    ]

    [
    "The Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible defines "elohim" as a plural of eloah, an expanded form of the common Semitic noun "'il" (ʾēl).[3] It contains an added heh as third radical to the biconsonantal root. Discussions of the etymology of elohim essentially concern this expansion. An exact cognate outside of Hebrew is found in Ugaritic ʾlhm, the family of El, the creator god and chief deity of the Canaanite pantheon, in Biblical Aramaic ʼĔlāhā and later Syriac Alaha "God", and in Arabic ʾilāh "god, deity" (or Allah as " The [single] God").

    "El" (the basis for the extended root ʾlh) is usually derived from a root meaning "to be strong" and/or "to be in front".[3]"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim
    ]

    [
    "[8] Cognates of the name "Allāh" exist in other Semitic languages, including Hebrew and Aramaic.[9] Biblical Hebrew mostly uses the plural form (but functional singular) Elohim. The corresponding Aramaic form is ʼĔlāhā ܐܠܗܐ in Biblical Aramaic and ʼAlâhâ ܐܲܠܵܗܵܐ in Syriac as used by the Assyrian Church, both meaning simply 'God'.[10] In the Sikh scriptures, Guru Granth Sahib, the term Allah (Punjabi: ਅਲਹੁ) is used 37 times.[11]"

    "As Hebrew and Arabic are closely related Semitic languages, it is commonly accepted that Allah (root, ilāh) and the Biblical Elohim are cognate derivations of same origin, as in Eloah a Hebrew word which is used (e.g. in the Book of Job) to mean '(the) God' and also 'god or gods' as in the case of Elohim, ultimately deriving from the root El, 'strong', possibly genericized from El (deity), as in the Ugaritic ’lhm "children of El" (the ancient Near Eastern creator god in pre-Abrahamic tradition).

    In Jewish scripture Elohim is used as a descriptive title for the God of the scriptures whose name is YHWH, as well as for pagan gods."

    "Christians in Indonesia and Malaysia also use Allah to refer to God in the Malaysian language and Indonesian language (both languages forms of the Malay language which is referred to as Bahasa Melayu).

    Mainstream Bible translations in both languages use Allah as the translation of Hebrew Elohim (translated in English Bibles as "God").[56]"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah
    ]

    Oh, and:

    ♰♰♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord ♰♰♰

    October 15, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • nope.

      @Vic
      nope.

      October 15, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Madtown

      ♰♰♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord ♰♰♰
      ---–
      For the humans God created and placed in a sector of the world devoid of christianity, he is not.

      October 15, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • tammy

      " ܐܲܠܵܗܵܐ"

      Oh my God, Vic! I think you won! Was there a popup message saying how to claim your prize?

      October 15, 2013 at 5:36 pm |
    • Gerry

      That sure is a lot of mumbo jumbo for something that more likely originated from a goat passing wind.

      October 15, 2013 at 5:40 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.