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 A flood survivor is surrounded by debris on the Philippine island of Leyte.
November 11th, 2013
11:16 AM ET
Where was God in the Philippines?By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-editor [twitter-follow screen_name='BurkeCNN'] (CNN) - The disasters are always different and often devastating. But the questions they raise are hauntingly familiar. In the days since Super Typhoon Haiyan swept through the Philippines on Thursday, survivors are frantically searching for lost family members and international aid groups are springing into action. Officials say the death toll may rise to 10,000 in the heavily Catholic country. Meanwhile, many people are asking: How should we make sense of such senseless death and destruction? Was God in the whirlwind itself, as the Bible hints, or present only in the aftermath, as people mobilize to provide food, water and shelter? These questions may not be new, but we keep asking them, perhaps because the answers remain so elusive. For many Americans, a paradox sits at the heart of their thinking about natural disasters. According to a survey taken after 2011's earthquake and tsunami in Japan, most Americans (56%) believe that God is control of everything. But more Americans blame hurricanes, earthquakes and other storms on global warming (58%) than on an angry and punishing deity (38%), according to a 2011 poll by the Public Religion Research Institute. “These kind of questions about God being in control and there simultaneously being suffering are the kind of things that keep seminarians up at night," institute CEO Robert P. Jones said in 2011. "They’re thorny theological issues." READ: Typhoon Haiyan: Survivors in Philippines face grim struggle as death toll rises The Bible's Psalm 107 says that “For (God) commands, and raises the stormy wind, which lifts up the waves thereof. ... He turns rivers into a wilderness, and the water springs into dry ground." But, as the poll shows, most Americans have moved past the idea that God causes natural disasters, wrote Stephen Prothero, a frequent CNN contributor, in a 2011 column. "When it comes to earthquakes and hurricanes, our authorities are geologists and meteorologists," Prothero said as he rode out Hurricane Irene on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. "Most of us interpret these events not through the rumblings of the biblical prophet Jeremiah or the poetry of the Book of Revelation but through the scientific truths of air pressure and tectonic plates." For atheists, storms like Haiyan are proof that God doesn't exist, author and activist Sam Harris said. "Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn’t care to, or he doesn’t exist. God is either impotent, evil or imaginary," Harris said after Japan's tsunami. "Take your pick, and choose wisely." God may or may not be in withering storms, but many religious leaders say they sense a divine presence in the aftermath, as people across the world mobilize to lend a hand. Rabbi Harold Kushner is one of the most famous names in the realm of theodicy, a branch of theology that tries to explain the unexplainable: why a good God would allow bad things to happen. After Japan's tsunami, Kushner called nature "an equal-opportunity destroyer," making no distinctions between sinners and saints. But Kushner, author of the bestselling book "When Bad Things Happen to Good People," said he sees God's hand in the resilience of people whose lives have been destroyed and in the "goodness and generosity" of strangers who donate and pray for the survivors. READ: How to help victims of Typhoon Haiyan That still leaves a tricky question, though: Why do humans suffer, sometimes terribly, in the first place? There's no good answer, says the Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest and best-selling author. "Each person has to come to grips with that," Martin said. "It’s not as if some magic answer can be found. But the idea of God suffering along with us can be very helpful." Muslims, on the other hand, see stormy trials as tests from God, said Sayyid Syeed, national director of the Islamic Society of North America’s Office of Interfaith and Community Alliances. "Muslims believe that God tests those he loves, and these tragedies also serve as a reminder to the rest of us to remain grateful to God for all our blessings and cognizant that we must support those in need," Syeed said. Vietnamese Buddhist master Thich Nhat Hanh, whose native country remains in Haiyan's path, said such storms remind us that our lives are impermanent and the importance of treasuring each moment. "This is the best that we can do for those who have died: We can live in such a way that they can feel they are continuing to live in us, more mindfully, more profoundly, more beautifully, tasting every minute of life available to us, for them," Hanh said. Stephen Prothero, Jessica Ravitz and Eric Marrapodi contributed to this report. soundoff (3,827 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Christians, please take a break from praying and give generously to these poor people. Please don't give your money to a church. Babies are drinking dirty water and parents are mourning the loss of their children.
as if we don't already, thank self righteous athiest without your sarcasm i never would have thout of that.
No sarcasm intended. Just trying to reach out to the mentally challenged to help in this horrible situation.
don't lie
But my church is providing aid to these victims.
Excellent.
@Doc Vestibule : Isn't Job an uplifting story? God, who is love, is more than willing to destroy the life of His most devout follower just so He can win a bet.
You've obviously missed the lesson in Job. While Job was an upright man, he wasn't without sin. Job's sin was in thinking that his works lead to his relation to God. This encouraged Job to become prideful – ultimately wanting to challenge God in court. Job subscribed to a doctrine that we know today as the Prosperity theology. God destroyed his life so that Job could realize that doctrine is false. After Job learned his lesson, God restored Job to his former status.
Thanks for putting that in context!
Lie4Him
Circles always circles in Christian apologetics, do you ever get dizzy, lyer?
a little hamster wheel.
I've always wondered: where did this conversation between God and Lucifer that led to this bet take place?
Mike
While your at it try and find out what the odds were.
Job was restored more than his beginning,(Job 42:12-17) and it was satan that tested him and claimed than "Man" will sell out for his own soul (life) Job 2:4-6 but Job answered that challenge quite well and proved that his skin was not worth more than his eternal life. Jehovah knew Job and allowed this test but never tests us with bad, read(James 1:12-15)
What were God and Lucifer doing hanging out together?
you need to know the whole story and how it applies to us. If any are serious about learning the answers to your questions go to jw.org and learn what the Bible really teaches and what it means for us today. Jehovah did not "hang out" with satan but was challenged and was proven right. Job's eternal life is safe with his heavenly father for a future resurrection right here on a cleansed earth with no more pain or tears or death,(Rev.21:3,4)
So I ask again: where did this happen? I am not going to your website.
God "restored" Job's riches? Tell that to the ten kids that were murdered and to Mrs. Job, who had to have another ten children after this little "gentleman's bet".
@james : Job was restored more than his beginning,(Job 42:12-17)
Of course.
@james : it was satan that tested him and claimed than "Man" will sell out for his own soul (life)
Of course.
@james : Job answered that challenge quite well
Not quite. While Job didn't lose his integrity and "sell out", he still gave into sin by claiming that God made a mistake in 'punishing' him without cause (i.e. allowing bad things to happen to him). In the beginning (approx chapter 4), Job acknowledged that he could not contend with God in a court. However, at the end (approx chapter 26) Job throws down the gauntlet and demands that God answer his charges. When God finally DOES answer him, Job is set back in his place. God allowed Job just enough rope to hang himself, to show him the error in his thinking.
@james : Jehovah ... allowed this test but never tests us with bad
It's more than God allowing this test, and more like God enticed Satan to put Job to the test. God knew that Job needed his theology corrected (i.e. 'Wealth and Health for good works').
@Mike : What were God and Lucifer doing hanging out together?
Currently Lucifer is allowed in God's throne room. But, eventually, he will be cast out.
Lie4Him
HAHAHA, really, you should write up a SNL skit about your interpretation, it is hilarious.
Why is God hanging out with Lucifer in Heaven? ( I assume that's where the throne room is)
Would you let a known criminal hang out with you in your house?
I thought L was cast out long ago. He wasn't?
Rev, 12:9-12 has already happened and satan is here ruling.this "world", he is the god of this system, and his time is limited. as for Job he could not be perfect but answered the challenge as well as he could after being corrected but Jehovah does not "entice" anyone, especially satan who was judged a long time ago before Job but for the time he is "allowing" these things to be until his purpose be fulfilled to show there will be people with "integrity" and love for him no matter what they receive in this life for that to come.
So your god killed Job's and Mrs. Job's ten children to teach this "lesson", but it turns out okay because your god gives Job ten more children after he "proves" his faith?
What about Mrs. Job? She had to have another ten children to make everything all better?
@doobzz : So your god killed Job's and Mrs. Job's ten children
This is the problem with looking at this issue through the glasses of an atheist – you consider death to the end of it all. This presupposes that God doesn't exist, which is what you intend to prove by commenting.
Rather, lets look at this from the Christian perspective. These ten children had their schooling cut short – most likely because they had already made their decisions. Thus, they were ushered into eternity – either heaven or hell. So their 'lives' didn't end, but are continuing. Only their schooling has ended.
@ Live
Actually, I was a believer for several decades. I explained away the Job story using very similar rationalizations. If the "god's plan" hypothesis of bookmaking is true, why did god "restore" all the children? After all, Job and Mrs. Job would presumably see some or all of them again after death.
The fact is that innocent people and animals were dragged into this cosmic wager and this woman was forced to provide 20 children for the pot.
Live4Him,
The story of Job shows that God can be totally HEARTLESS and treat people monstrously.
It is a disgrace to Christians and God and an decent Christian should be thoroughly ASHAMED of it.
God, without any compassion or love, allowed the KILLING of many people and animals to WIN A BET. Pathetic and SADISTIC. God couldn't look any worse.
And all the children he murdered?
He didn't just take money – he had everyone killed. They didn't come back to life.
God allows evil so he may make the ultimate good out of it.
There is no darkness, evil, or shadow of turning in the Most High according to the letter of James. So stop blaming God when evil happens. He is not the author of evil.
But didn't god create satan, knowing full well the consequences? So isn't god responsible for anything that satan does? Didn't your god create everything including evil?
Why do you not think your god who allegedly create all, is not responsible for all?
@Richard Cranium : But didn't god create satan
Yes, God created Satan, but not as a fallen angel. Rather, God created Satan like all other angels – including the free will to turn to evil. And Satan chose to rebel against God and corrupt this world with sin.
But god knows all to the end of time, so he knew the consequences of creating satan, knew he would fall...so god knowingly created the angel that would fall, knowing the end result.
God created evil by proxy then.
You can't have it both ways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iNoM14t-ZM
God of the gaps. It's an expression to denote what theists use to "fill in the void" for the unknown.
As astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson explains in his talk The Perimeter of Ignorance, throughout history many of the great minds give virtually no mention to any god for their discoveries and explanations. (Ptolemy, Isaac Newton, Laplace, Huygens, Galileo.) That is, until they reach the problem they feel they cannot and will never fully tackle.
Perhaps that is all God has ever been – a placeholder for discomfort or frustration over the unknown; an excuse of last resort when, for one reason or another, one gives up investigation. It is at that point of discomfort over the unknown when one should remember what humanity has already witnessed: that today's scientific explanations were often yesterday's gods.
What is the effect when man relies solely on his gap-filling gods? Consider this:
Two-thirds of star names have Arabic names. They came from Islam's fertile period (AD 800-1100.) During that time Baghdad was the intellectual center of the world, open to people of all or no faiths. During that time were some of the greatest advances known to mankind: engineering, biology, medicine, mathematics, celestial navigation; this is the time and place that gave us numerals we use, terms like algebra and algorithm.
Enter Imam Hamid al-Ghazali in the 12th century. The fundamentally religious period of Islam begins, and so begins the steady decline of free intellectual expression in that area of the world. Some would argue that it has since never recovered.
Of course the effects of such reliance touches us today – even in the U.S. We see some who refuse medical care for their children for instance.
"[If] the nature of... government [were] a subordination of the civil to the ecclesiastical power, I [would] consider it as desperate for long years to come. Their steady habits [will] exclude the advances of information, and they [will] seem exactly where they [have always been]. And there [the] clergy will always keep them if they can. [They] will follow the bark of liberty only by the help of a tow-rope." –Thomas Jefferson
You failed to mention how arrogant that society became as a result from having the knowledge and wealth that they had. They don't have it because it was taken from them,and rightfully so. It happens to every arrogant society. Don't blame Islam. Islam came as a blessing and a warning. Rule's had to be put back in place because people were acting like heathens. It's not a coincidence that societies of past and present that have the most advances in science, technology and economy have the most atheists. And God always has and always will put them in their places.
I don't think you give enough credit for the situation we find ourselves in today in this information age. It's more and more a global society, whether you are describing the positive or negative characteristics of it. It's way too late to think that religions, born from ancient mythology are going to be able to continue to control much of the global society.
You say "God always has and always will..." Which God? The god of the Deists who wrote the U.S. Constitution? (Remember, Deists believed in the watchmaker, a god that did not intervene in our lives. A god that just set things in motion.) Or some other god born from ancient mythology? You assume this god exists and gives absolute laws ("truths"). Where have you learned about this that does not involve subjectivity/consensus? Can you demonstrate any objective "truth" without resorting to subjective means; without some level of human consensus?
I don't believe in Gods of certain things. I have! faith that everything came from one source and that source has something that is way beyond what we know as intelligence. I believe in the God that revealed the Qur'an. That's my proof without human intervention. If a man wrote that perfect, immaculate and out of this world masterpiece, then millions of people (myself included) would've written something better. Way better. Not to mention Muhammad (pbuh) was illiterate. If an illiterate man wrote THAT, there's no telling what me and everyone else would've written. The Qur'an is the complete proof God is One and exists. The orgazzm is the second clearest sign. And there's many more signs. Countless signs. They are everywhere, everyday. Just look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM5n8jESUEk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJQFVqnlZTw
The age old question is before us again. How could a good God allow suffering? He must either be bad or not omnipotent, blah, blah blah...The best way to summarize this whole idea of why bad things happen to good people is basically this: God cares more about your Immortal Spiritual Soul than about your temporary physical body. Period. Perhaps we should also care about our souls more as well.
You are being dishonest with yourself in order to cling to something that does not serve you well. It is within each of us to be "good" and to live helpful and fulfilling lives without belief in the supernatural.
You're preaching to the choir! I also believe that anyone can do good works without belief in the supernatural. I never said otherwise.
All is well in the land of make-believe.
Is that why god rewards aborted fetuses with eternal salvation?
Sara, I have no idea. I'm not God. Does the fetus have a soul? If so, I suppose it would have salvation. However, I, personally, believe in reincarnation. That it takes many lives to fully perfect our relationship with God in order to return back.
So you're admitting that god also has no influence on the good things that happen?
I'm not admittinmg anything because ultimately I have no idea as to the ultimate truth about God. An omnipotent God COULD interfere with both the good and bad that befalls us, but WOULD he or even should he? I have no clue. Do You?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=S_OTz-lpDjw
Eww. These guys need to stop being so cheap and buy a few extra chords.
Fabulous!
You guys rock!!!
People just don’t get it. The question is asked: Where was God when…? Yet it has been said over and over; this sort of thing has been predicted. Matthew 24:7 (and other places), “7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.” And it is thought that just because God is God that all things should be ‘rosy’? No! When Satan successfully tricked lied and tempted Eve in the garden he was given the opportunity to try to prove God was wrong; his message was that he could do better, but look at what he has done, this world is a mess. Satan is evil and he wants men to blame God—and they do. People are going to hurt, people are going to die, even God’s people. Satan is the cause of all these things. Satan hates you and all creation, and he is going to try to destroy you if he can. If God didn’t allow this evil sort of thing to happen, how would you ever just know how evil Satan is?
No friend, if you think things are bad now, they are going to get worse until all living mankind has made their decision to serve God or serve Satan. God loves you; 2 Peter 3:9 (KJV) “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
If there was proof positive that God existed where would there be any faith? If only good things happened to the faithful—everyone would believe, but for the wrong reason. (That would be a ‘fairy in the sky, and maybe that is what some people want but are disappointed because it isn’t true.)
If there was positive proof of God there would be no need for faith – we would have belief.
'No friend, if you think things are bad now, they are going to get worse until all living mankind has made their decision to serve God or serve Satan.'
You need to stop watching those Taliban motivational videos.
Another deluded nutjob drinking the koolaid. "satan" = NO SUCH THING! just like your imaginary god...... simply your imagination.... Why must you confuse mythology with reality??
A speech by Bart Ehrman at Stanford about the story behind who changed the bible and why and the history of the bible and how they got tainted. He is a former Christian bible scholar who studied the bible and found the mistakes and became an agnostic.
This speech is a must see for christians who ask questions like:
Who wrote the gospels?
Is the bible the word of God?
Are there contradictions?
Does the bible contain errors?
Is there evidence or proof?
Bart Ehrman holds a PhD magna cum laude from Princeton Theological Seminary. He is currently the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0zWbL8Uqfw
Bingo – that's it.
Very interesting discussion of several things to include knowledge and consensus.
Published on Nov 5, 2013
00:00 Introduction
07:07 Limits of Science
19:40 God & the Supernatural
31:20 Science & Morality
50:11 Something out of Nothing
1:03:42 The Value of Philosophy
1:20:59 Cognitive Limits
1:35:43 Questions:
– 1:35:56 Science & Politics
– 1:43:33 The Status of Economics
– 1:48:17 Does Consciousness Exist?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tH3AnYyAI8
See the bit on transcription errors in the New Testament over the centuries, and how transcribers added/deleted text from the various versions, and how none of them agree.
you know, nature and the universe has its own law and system....
when ppl create wrong religions and faith... ppl will do things that go against the law of universe.
thus creates instability to the system that we live in, and thus bring in calamities and misfortunes...
clearly there is no GOD... ppl's mind is deluded, confused, when ppl's mind is clear and pure, so is the land...
we are doing this to ourselves. period
Death is inevitable, someday everybody is going to die. Nobody knows that "date" and "how" they are going to die. Maybe of natural causes, maybe a tsunami, hurricane, diseases and the like.
The most important question to ask is :
Why is my purpose on planet earth?
Am I showing love to my neighbors?
What happens when I die?
What is the question God will ask of me when I meet Him face to face? Will I be able to answer that question truthfully and honestly?
Scripture verses:
Psalm 90:12
So teach us to number our days that we may get a heart of wisdom.
John 16:33
I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
You do realize that its that same bible that you are quoting that turned me and a lot of others to atheism and against the belief in god right?
So quoting it isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't believe.
I'll go along with your first three questions...
But given that the Biblical afterlife myth is but one of many, that last one should be amended.
"What is the question (INSERT AFTERLIFE JUDGE) will ask of me when I meet them face to face?"
It could be St. Christopher, Jesus, Joseph Smith, Ma'at, Odin, Radamanthus, Yama, etc.
Christianity is not the only way. If there's a heaven, and you're fortunate enough to go there, you'll be rubbing elbows with souls that had no knowledge of Jesus Christ while on this earth.
Christianity is not the way to salvation.
Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation.
Praise his high and holy name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation.
---–
What if I'm one of the humans God created with no access to christianity, and thus no knowledge of Christ?
i am positive that with few exceptions none of you have a concept even close to understanding who GOD is and i just want to say i am sorry for that because we have failed.what have we let happen?i wish you could know GOD as i do. i was that kid in church that ask all those tough questions, we created man in OUR image, and such where was cains wife from. you have a mind that GOD gave you you can study anthropology geology, physics thats cool, if this, than that, right? the beauty in this world is discovery.to look acroos the stars at night and wonder how many others are there? will not make GOD mad. there is a beautiful bit in "bruce almighty" wre bruce ask GOD if he "could ask a question" and morgan freeman said "yes, yes you can that is the beauty in it". open your hearts and listen, GOD is there and his heart breaks for you, i am so sorry i am not smart enough to show you GOD i am afraid that will be up to you. i love and pray for you all, not to put you down but to bring you up. you are more than you know.
You think that you know god?
Funny since no one can even tell if there is one, or many, or the thousands of other gods.
But somehow, you know all about him/her/it.
Clearly you are well acquainted with the idea of a god that exists in your own head...nothing more.
Roll the bible quotes.....
i am sorry you were speaking from the heart i am just human too. but since you asked yes i do know GOD and he says hellow by the way he has heard you and he has tried to call but you were busy, i know GOD as much as he will let me know and i crave more, never have i met a mind like GODS before or heart. i wish i could convey this to you but i am only human i pray for wisdom to help those that do not know, i am sorry that i can not help
expected, anything new satan?
Yeah, ignorant response.
Free thinkers and those who don't believe or follow you are agents of satan.
Then you wonder why people are atheists with that kind of nonsense.
Are you actually referring to me as if I was a character from your book?
Talk about bearing false witness.
Repent sinner...I am not satan nor am I affiliated with the character from your book.
satan means antaganist
What the heck is an antaganist?
I know what an antagonist is, but no clue to what an antaganist is. Must be more biblical mumbo jumbo.
icabus
SO any antagonist is satan? All I did was question YOUR statement, which could be seen as antagonistic...so you think someone is satan for disagreeing with you or questioning your claim?
until you can show that there is anything like a satan, your claims are flase, and you are bearing flase witness by making any claims tying anyone in with your books character.
Get over yourself.
More "this means that"
i wish you could know GOD as i do
-----
LOL! Yep, you're pretty special. You clearly know more than anyone else. Comedic arrogance.
i understand, no errogance ment there are more than me and more closer to him than me sorry for the misunderstanding nothing but love for the unbeliever here.
nothing but love for the unbeliever here ....and calling them satan
I like humility! Anyone who is humble is worth having a conversation with. People who say they know god on one hand, are probably not high on humility. I like people who say they are trying their best! Nothing more and nothing less!
Every true believer of every one of the thousands of gods ever worshiped by humanity "knew/knows" god. However, not one of them, not even Icabus, can actually provide real evidence that god exists. Special feelings are not now, nor have they ever been, proof of god.
There are many beliefs. Personally I believe that God just lets things happen here on this earth and we have to be prepaired for it. Basically he just lets nature take its course and we as humans need to be ready. We can never be ready for disasters like this, but we can be ready and prepaired in our faith. So when it is your time, it is your time. If your heart is with Jesus, you really dont care. You are going to a better place. Jesus is Lord. When he wants me to come home, he will call... there is nothing i can do about it. So as humans, please get your hearts and sould right... as bad as it may sound, we will all die someday. Either natural causes or accidents. You never know, you will be judged.
No, oh my, no. You are doing the same thing I once did – making up explanations for those things for which your mind is telling you, "this is cruel, how could God do this?" I'm a former Christian – I know.
No, oh no, please don't continue the childish question of How could a good God allow suffering? The best way to summarize this whole idea of why bad things happen to good people is basically this: God cares more about your immortal spiritual soul than about your temporary physical body. Period.
If God cared about our immortal spirit we would not need mortal bodies – think, use your mind. The resurrection stories are for life to be restored to our bodies. Think.