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Illinois bishop plans gay-marriage exorcism
Bishop Thomas Paprocki of Illinois is planning an exorcism for the state after it approved gay marriage.
November 15th, 2013
10:10 AM ET

Illinois bishop plans gay-marriage exorcism

By Daniel Burke, Belief Blog Co-editor

(CNN) - The devil made them do it?

According to a Catholic bishop in Springfield, Illinois, Satan was behind his state's recent legalization of same-sex marriage.

So, next Wednesday, at about the same time Gov. Pat Quinn signs the gay marriage bill into law, Bishop Thomas Paprocki will hold an exorcism ceremony "in reparation for the sin of same-sex marriage."

Paprocki, who's something of an expert on exorcism, says he's just following the Pope's marching orders.

When Pope Francis, then Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, was an archbishop in Argentina, he called that country's legalization of same-sex marriage "a 'move' of the father of lies who wishes to confuse and deceive the children of God."

In a statement released on Thursday, Paprocki said: "The pope's reference to the 'father of lies' comes from the Gospel of John, where Jesus refers to the devil as 'a liar and the father of lies.' So Pope Francis is saying that same-sex 'marriage' comes from the devil and should be condemned as such."

Since his election as Pope in March, Francis seems to have taken a less combative approach to homosexuality. At a news conference in July, for example, he said "Who am I to judge?" a gay person who seeks to be a good person.

Illinois politicians - including Catholics - cited the Pope's words when explaining their support for the state's same-sex marriage bill.

In September, the Pope said the church has no right to "interfere spiritually" in the lives of gays and lesbians and chided Catholics who "obsess" about fighting culture war issues like abortion and same-sex marriage.

MORE ON CNN: Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gays

But Paprocki calls same-sex marriage "contrary to the plan of God" and says all Catholics who support it - from legislators to county clerks who issue marriage licenses - are "culpable of serious sin."

The bishop has invited priests and lay Catholics to his exorcism ceremony, officially called "“Prayers of Supplication and Exorcism in Reparation for the Sin of Same-Sex Marriage,” which is scheduled for November 20 at the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in Springfield, Illinois.

Paprocki says the ceremony will follow the Catholic Church's Rite of Exorcism, which explains that Satan not only possesses people, he can also invade places and things, including the church itself.

"We must pray for deliverance from this evil which has penetrated our state and our church," Paprocki said.

Exorcism is experiencing something of a renaissance in the United States, with the Catholic bishops recruiting dozens of priests to perform the ancient rite. Paprocki is among the bishops leading the recruiting drive.

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Belief • Catholic Church • Culture wars • Faith • Gay marriage • Gay rights • Pope Francis

soundoff (3,013 Responses)
  1. devin

    Moral absolutes: The Final Frontier.

    November 16, 2013 at 12:52 am |
    • Doris

      Yes – that's in the fiction section, not far from the romance novels.

      November 16, 2013 at 1:02 am |
    • Observer

      The Bible seems to have few, if any, moral absolutes due to errors, contradictions, hypocrisy and nonsense.

      November 16, 2013 at 1:05 am |
      • fred

        Love the Lord your God with all your heart and strength
        Love your neighbor as yourself
        As you judge so will you be judged
        The pure of heart will see God

        November 16, 2013 at 1:15 am |
        • Observer

          fred,

          "The pure of heart will see God"

          Nope. Not if you live somewhere or some time where you never heard of God or the Bible.

          November 16, 2013 at 1:23 am |
        • Observer

          fred,

          "Love your neighbor as yourself"

          Nope. Not if you followed God's original commands and were commanded to kill him for any of the long list of reasons God gave.

          November 16, 2013 at 1:26 am |
        • fred

          No, the pure of heart always see God. Even with your bias against truth and the Bible you should understand this.
          Consider you and I really cannot come up with definitive matter, shape, color or size of God. Also, remember you and I are not pure of heart. Now, imagine if we were pure with only perfect goodness what would you see?

          November 16, 2013 at 1:41 am |
        • Observer

          fred

          "No, the pure of heart always see God. Even with your bias against truth and the Bible you should understand this."

          "Bias against truth"? NO ONE on here cares more about TRUTH than I do. You are either IGNORANT or a LIAR or BOTH. Which is it?

          November 16, 2013 at 1:44 am |
        • fred

          Observer
          You just proved the absolute. You cannot see God because you are filled with hate. You cannot even imagine a pure thought. Do your self a favor give your self a break. Take some slow breaths and think only pure kind loving thoughts of goodness. Each time a small spot of impurity rolls by capture it and remove it. You will be amazed.

          November 16, 2013 at 1:52 am |
        • Observer

          fred,

          You are the liar who said that "no vengeance" means "yes vengeance" and that "treat a slave like property" means "treat a slave like a person". Ooops.

          I have lots of pure thoughts. That's why I find the Bible so repulsive for supporting slavery and God's actions absolutely BARBARIC in dealing with Job. Your "pure thoughts" find nothing wrong and that is what is so PATHETIC.

          November 16, 2013 at 1:56 am |
        • fred

          Observer
          Put on the brakes you are going in the wrong direction. Pure of heart is the other way

          November 16, 2013 at 2:03 am |
        • Observer

          fred,

          Speaking of pure of heart, please tell us how God treated one of his most loyal people – Job.

          Try to explain how anyone of any decent morals or integrity could support God's actions.

          This should be really good and tell A LOT about the kind of person you are.

          November 16, 2013 at 2:08 am |
        • fred

          Job 42
          10 After Job had prayed for his friends, the Lord restored his fortunes and gave him twice as much as he had before. 11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the Lord had brought on him, and each one gave him a piece of silver[a] and a gold ring.
          12 The Lord blessed the latter part of Job’s life more than the former part.

          =>Get rid of your impure thoughts they are taking you down Observer. Try it.
          =>Note that Job was blessed to begin with and double blessed the remainder of his life. God wants to bless you as well.

          November 16, 2013 at 2:18 am |
        • fred

          Observer
          I am off, have a great weekend and look for some blessings and you will find them. If God is your problem just begin with seeking goodness, kindness, joy, love, mercy, patience, understanding ...............Wait I know someone who said it best:

          8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

          November 16, 2013 at 2:23 am |
        • Observer

          fred,

          "Note that Job was blessed to begin with and double blessed the remainder of his life."

          Ooops. Not exactly. BARBARIC and HEARTLESS God let TEN CHILDREN DIE plus SERVANTS plus THOUSANDS of animals.

          What a COLD-BLOODED FIEND just to win a BET. Guess gambling is blessed by God.

          Actually READ the Bible someday and TRY TO USE YOUR BRAIN when you do.

          November 16, 2013 at 2:23 am |
        • fred

          Observer
          We both read Job and you pick those parts that make you hate and see red. I read the entire book and see Gods wonderful plan of redemption for any one that will seek God in good times and hard times. You seem to be having some hard times and I am sorry to hear that.
          I will pray Gods blessing find you. Have a good weekend ! Think positive

          November 16, 2013 at 2:30 am |
        • G to the T

          You are conveniently leaving out all the family members that died BEFORE he was "recompensed". Those people were still just as dead, all to resolve a bet between God and his prosecutor. How is that "just" in any way?

          November 21, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
      • devin

        Your confusing books, that was Ulysses you were reading.

        November 16, 2013 at 1:16 am |
        • devin

          You're.

          November 16, 2013 at 1:20 am |
  2. Steve Kiely

    Perhaps the good bishop could exorcize all the child molestors from the Roman Catholic clergy.

    November 16, 2013 at 12:46 am |
    • sam

      Apparently real, actual problems that harm others are not as important.

      November 16, 2013 at 12:52 am |
  3. Reality # 2

    Just more perpetuation of the Satanic con !! Said Satan is the demon of the demented and said archbishop obviously is demented.

    November 16, 2013 at 12:24 am |
  4. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    Perhaps the Bishop saw something in his Bible that suggested that his God may not be playing fair, or have the best interest of all humanity in its heart or in its plans. Worse, perhaps he suspected his pope saw something of that kind. Exorcism is the only answer. He must implore God to exorcise that thought from everyone, starting with him.

    November 15, 2013 at 11:48 pm |
    • lol??

      perhaps, perhaps not
      worse perhaps, worse perhaps not
      better perhaps, better perhaps not
      never not perhaps, never not not perhaps
      ALICE!!!!!
      One pill makes you larger
      And one pill makes you small
      And the ones that mother gives you
      Don't do anything at all
      Go ask Alice
      When she's ten feet tall

      And if you go chasing rabbits
      And you know you're going to fall
      Tell 'em a hookah-smoking caterpillar
      Has given you the call
      Call Alice
      When she was just small

      When the men on the chessboard
      Get up and tell you where to go
      And you've just had some kind of mushroom
      And your mind is moving low
      Go ask Alice
      I think she'll know

      When logic and proportion
      Have fallen sloppy dead
      And the White Knight is talking backwards
      And the Red Queen's off with her head
      Remember what the dormouse said
      Feed your head
      Feed your head

      Silly wabbit.

      November 16, 2013 at 12:15 am |
  5. Roger Ramjet

    Well done to the Pope for standing up against the politically correct and for what is right in society, I am tired of political correctness. The persecution has begun.

    November 15, 2013 at 11:44 pm |
    • Doris

      So how do you know what is right?

      November 16, 2013 at 12:03 am |
  6. Felix Sinclair

    Satan sounds way cooler.

    November 15, 2013 at 11:24 pm |
  7. jarhead333

    Gay marriage or not, Christians need to stop judging others. As a Christian, I am sickened by the amount of judgment we seem to apply to certain social issues. The truth is, we all have our own issues that we deal with as human beings. Earthly judgment goes against pretty much everything in the Bible, so where do we think we have the right to judge others. As for the marriage aspect, if you do not believe in it, then do not vote for it. There is no need to show the hypocrisy that can easily be pointed out in the Bible.

    November 15, 2013 at 10:35 pm |
    • Colin

      You are WAY too rational to be a Christian. I give you 18 months, tops, before you are agnostic or atheist.

      November 15, 2013 at 10:37 pm |
      • Myth Busters

        Atheists that think they are more rational than believers are arrogant, not more reasonable or logical.

        November 15, 2013 at 10:41 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          Well, atheists have one less category of irrational thought than believers do. That could give atheists an edge.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:44 pm |
        • Myth Busters

          I have yet to meet a completely rational atheist. They are all imperfect and irrational.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:50 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          Replace "atheist" with "human being," and you'll be being fair and honest.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:54 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          I haven't met anyone who is perfect or perfectly rational either.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:54 pm |
        • Observer

          Myth Busters,

          Not usually believing in unicorns, talking non-humans, dragons, and people turning into salt could inidicate that atheists and agnostics ARE more reasonable and logical.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:55 pm |
        • jarhead333

          When it comes to personal belief, we are all imperfect, and at times irrational.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:56 pm |
        • Myth Busters

          *Observer
          Atheists can believe in unicorns, talking non-humans, dragons, and people turning into salt.
          Claiming that all believers believe in those things is completely wrong.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:59 pm |
        • Observer

          Myth Busters

          "Claiming that all believers believe in those things is completely wrong."

          I don't claim that at all. Actually I claim that there are a huge number of Christians who are hypocrites and trash others for not believing all of a book that they don't believe all of themselves. They just CLAIM they do.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:03 pm |
        • Myth Busters

          I'd focus on my own imperfections and not worry so much about others.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:06 pm |
        • Observer

          Myth Busters

          "I'd focus on my own imperfections and not worry so much about others."

          Good. So are you here on this story about gays to remind all your fellow Christians who trash gays that the Golden Rule is MORE IMPORTANT?

          November 15, 2013 at 11:12 pm |
        • jarhead333

          @Observer, Can't the same thing be said about atheists?

          November 15, 2013 at 11:12 pm |
        • Mark

          Myth Busters:
          "I have yet to meet a completely rational atheist. They are all imperfect and irrational."

          I feel the sane exact way about every Christian I have ever met.
          I don't think this is representative of ALL Christians, though.

          Imperfection is a human condition.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:13 pm |
        • Myth Busters

          These are our fellow human beings. They are like both you and I. Our beliefs and disbeliefs don't segregate us. I'm here to tell you that.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:14 pm |
        • Observer

          Myth Busters

          Amen.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:16 pm |
        • Myth Busters

          And, yes, I don't think they should be trashing gays.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:20 pm |
        • Mark

          @Myth Busters:

          Excellent. We agree, then.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:32 pm |
        • Sara

          Interesting story on analytic thinking and god belief:

          http://www.livescience.com/19923-analytic-thinking-religious-disbelief.html

          November 16, 2013 at 12:08 am |
        • jarhead333

          Cute, not biased at all.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:28 am |
    • jarhead333

      @Colin: I have had much more than 18 months. I believe what I believe, and others believe what they believe. It is as simple as that. If people actually believe what the Bible says, then our job as Christians is to love PEOPLE, not to judge them. I would hate to be judged by others.

      November 15, 2013 at 10:44 pm |
      • Cpt. Obvious

        I think the word you're looking for is "co.demnation," not judgment. We all judge/evaluate every hour of every day. It's part of our reasoning process. By what the bible says and by why what Christians say, I judge god to be a very nasty, disgusting being; if a god judges me one day than I assume that there will be nothing I can do about it, so why worry, now? If the god judging is fair or good, then I am completely unafraid.

        November 15, 2013 at 10:52 pm |
        • jarhead333

          Your perception is accurate if you do not believe in God. If you do not believe in God right now, then why would you worry about potential judgment?

          November 15, 2013 at 10:59 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          It seems fair to judge the one that you ask people to believe we'll all be judged by.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:01 pm |
        • jarhead333

          Agreed. I believe it is something that is imbedded in all of humanity. We all have opinions on where we come from. So to judge whether or not God is real is fair.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:04 pm |
        • G to the T

          jarhead – firstly you need to consider the possibilities of "gods" before you can start to consider if "God' (Yahweh) is real. While one is not a provable position (the non-existence of anything that might qualify as "god" or "gods") the other (that the "god" of the bible exists) is certainly open to critical analysis. The problem is most people think their belief in "God" is equivalent (and just a defendable) as the belief in "god(s)".

          November 21, 2013 at 12:23 pm |
    • Doris

      You see, that's the problem with Christianity though, jarhead. You see it's job as one thing. The next Christian has quite a different agenda.

      Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth. –Thomas Jefferson

      November 15, 2013 at 10:55 pm |
      • Myth Busters

        I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ. – Thomas Jefferson

        November 15, 2013 at 11:02 pm |
        • Doris

          That doesn't address what Jefferson saw as the conflicted nature of Christianity as a whole.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:11 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          We know that Thomas Jefferson saw enough value in Jesus to make an effort (that few people do) to pare down what Jesus is said to have said to something that could reasonably be what he said.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:15 pm |
        • Myth Busters

          That is why we should follow Jesus Christ, not Christianity.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:15 pm |
        • Doris

          You don't think that's what Christians try to do, Myth? How do you suppose anyone can accomplish that? What is the basis they start from? Can they start from something divine – straight from God? You don't think there is already disagreement between people who read the Bible every day?

          November 15, 2013 at 11:22 pm |
        • Myth Busters

          .You don't think that's what Christians try to do, Myth?

          Some.

          .How do you suppose anyone can accomplish that?

          Actually do what he says.

          .What is the basis they start from?

          Start with helping others. Help atheists and gays.

          .Can they start from something divine – straight from God?

          Yes.

          .You don't think there is already disagreement between people who read the Bible every day?

          There is. Let go of your disagreement and love the one you disagree with.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:25 pm |
        • Doris

          That's all nice and peachy, Myth, but to follow Jesus I assume you are using some basis to do so, to know which things he said that you think are important, no?

          November 15, 2013 at 11:30 pm |
        • Doris

          So if people can't agree on what Jesus actually meant, then how is following Jesus different from following different churches where there is disagreement?

          November 15, 2013 at 11:32 pm |
        • Myth Busters

          I'd get a good teacher. I found one that demonstrates unconditional love of others and devoted her life to helping the poor.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:35 pm |
        • jarhead333

          @Doris: How is the disagreement between faiths different then the disagreements among atheists? I know from these blogs that the beliefs among atheists stretch much farther (or equal to) the the differences of Christians.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:44 pm |
        • Doris

          Yes, Myth – I agree, we should always try to seek out good teachers – although as students, we must constantly realize we may not be qualified in assessing the teacher. Then there are those that have claimed on these blogs that one should read the Bible on their own.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:45 pm |
        • jarhead333

          The exception is the agreement that God does not exist. That is the only agreement I usually find among atheists.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:45 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          It would be strange for people to be united by unbelief.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:51 pm |
        • jarhead333

          Yet it does seem like you all are united against a certain religious group.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:54 pm |
        • Doris

          Well I do agree that on these blogs there is disagreement over many things, but specifically about belief or unbelief as Tom says, I don't think so much – but of course you do have the atheists who claim there is no God versus most who just don't hold a belief in God.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:55 pm |
        • Doris

          "Yet it does seem like you all are united against a certain religious group."

          I think that's just because in the U.S., that's always been the dominant force on the other side of the wall of separation.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:58 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          There is usually only one religious group represented here. Personally, I'm fascinated by belief. But it is frustrating that the ones who represent that group usually have no reasons for belief, no evidence of their God, that they can effectively convey.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:58 pm |
        • Sara

          jarhead,

          "Yet it does seem like you all are united against a certain religious group."

          While it's unlikely that "everyone" is united on anything I think it is safe to assume that everyone who feels threatened by a group will work, together when necessary, to limit the power of the threat.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:00 am |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          I can see that. What Sara has said. I will definitely work together with people who threaten the kind of society I want to live in. The case in point: an influential Bishops hopes he can in some way limit for some people the freedoms that everyone should enjoy equally.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:07 am |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          against, rather (it's late)

          November 16, 2013 at 12:08 am |
        • jarhead333

          @Tom Tom: I understand that you want evidence of God, but my perception is that there is no other explanation. I do not see any science that would disprove the possibility of a creator. I also believe in the historic and archeological evidence of the Bible. Just a personal belief.
          @Sara: " to limit the power of the threat." What threat do Christians pose to you? Please share.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:11 am |
        • jarhead333

          Ahh Yes. So it is ok to gang up against a group of people, but if you perceive that a "religious" group of people infringes on you beliefs, you have a problem with that... got it.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:17 am |
        • Sara

          Jarhead, Until very recently the majority of Christians in the US believed my marriage should be invalid. This cause legal and medical care issues and would likely have lead to other issues including difficulties with inheretence. Other people know that if they are ra ped it's possible that they will be denied the drugs they need by a pharmacist who was given the right by even more Christians. Others in Africa have AIDS and population driven poverty because of policies restricting aid imposed by other Christians. We are real people out here with real issues.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:18 am |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          Certainly against anyone with power to influence how we can live our lives who would abuse that power. Religion, wealth, political power, are things that can give people that kind of power. Some people do abuse it.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:22 am |
        • jarhead333

          @Sara: Please actually read other posts in reference to my beliefs on the subject of Gay marriage. Also, your facts on Africa are also biased. The spread of AIDS in the Christian belief, would not have happened. Not to mention the amount of Christian missionaries that are in Africa right now helping those suffering from the disease.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:26 am |
        • Sara

          jarhead, there's a big difference between fighting to protect your rights and fighting to take away those of others. Sometimes the two overlap, but when we are talking about the right to marry no one is talking about forcing Christians to give up their hete.ros.exual marriages or even to stop saying what they believe. We are having a debate not censoring anyone's right to print pamphlets or make websites expressing their opinions, and certainly not to limit what one can say in one's own church.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:26 am |
        • Sara

          jarhead, I on't know what your personal opinion is on gay marriage, but it doesn't alter the fact that for decades Christianity has been the main force against it in this country. Your question was what threat Christianity held to me personally, and that is a not just a threat but a curse of the religion I have personally suffered. Yes, it has improved in the last 2 – 3 years and everyone's pretending like their church was never a problem.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:30 am |
        • Sara

          btw, could you please answer my question below on your Bertrand Russell quote, because I'm pretty sure it's fraudulent.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:32 am |
        • jarhead333

          To be honest, Christians are not "taking away" the rights of any gays. It is currently not a law, therefore, something that does not currently exist cannot be taken away. What about the fact that schools no longer say the pledge of allegiance, because of the word "God"?

          November 16, 2013 at 12:35 am |
        • Doris

          jar: [ " Also, your facts on Africa are also biased. The spread of AIDS in the Christian belief, would not have happened. Not to mention the amount of Christian missionaries that are in Africa right now helping those suffering from the disease." ]

          what is in any way a fact when you say: "The spread of AIDS in the Christian belief, would not have happened." ??

          And Sara wasn't talking about missionaries, but I believe about policies in place by Christians there. And those policies are a problem. Gays are persecuted just as much by Christians in some countries as by Muslims.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:36 am |
        • jarhead333

          You have Google

          November 16, 2013 at 12:37 am |
        • Doris

          Those rights were "taken away" the moment they were afforded only to hetero couples. Of course it's taken quite a while for people to realize it.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:39 am |
        • Sara

          "I eat aborted fetuses for lunch." Jarhead333

          If you want the original source, google it, but I swear he said it.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:42 am |
        • jarhead333

          Right, because it was Christians that caused AIDS, or the powers in place. That is factually inaccurate. The persecution argument is ridiculous. Why do atheists believe that Christians are not persecuted all around the world. I have been in countries where you are beheaded for walking down the street with a Bible.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:43 am |
        • Doris

          One only need look at the court decisions involving the 1st Amendment in U.S. history to realize if give the opportunity any one of many Christian sects would attempt to establish itself in the government resulting in a theocracy.

          That's my take on this from "@Sara: " to limit the power of the threat." What threat do Christians pose to you? Please share."

          November 16, 2013 at 12:44 am |
        • Sara

          Doris, I was referring to restrictions placed on international aid due to various Christian lobby groups. But jarhead's proven to be a waste of time with his fake quotes and evasive answers so it's not really worth explaining.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:45 am |
        • Doris

          jar: "Right, because it was Christians that caused AIDS, or the powers in place. That is factually inaccurate. The persecution argument is ridiculous."

          where did you get that from?? are you arguing with yourself?

          November 16, 2013 at 12:46 am |
        • Sara

          LOL, Yeah, he does seem to be enjoying a private conversation.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:48 am |
        • jarhead333

          Yet no response to my post I see.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:50 am |
        • jarhead333

          The AIDS argument is ridiculous. Please come with something better. Christians are at the center of Africa, and the relief effort.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:54 am |
        • Doris

          jar: "@Tom Tom: I understand that you want evidence of God, but my perception is that there is no other explanation. I do not see any science that would disprove the possibility of a creator. I also believe in the historic and archeological evidence of the Bible. Just a personal belief."

          My perception tells me there is still much unknown. I do not see any science presently can prove nor disprove a creator. I do not believe there is sufficient historic nor archaeological evidence of the Bible that would verify the purported supernatural events that are contained therein.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:56 am |
        • jarhead333

          OK. What is the evidence that you believe in?

          November 16, 2013 at 12:59 am |
        • Sara

          jarhead, do you really need the last 30 years history explained to you? How the world's largest Christian sect successfully blocked condom distribution and limited use until 2010?

          November 16, 2013 at 1:04 am |
        • Doris

          Evidence of the supernatural?

          November 16, 2013 at 1:08 am |
        • jarhead333

          @Sara: Still assume that all Christians are the same.
          As far as the supernatural, there is no science that has convinced me.

          November 16, 2013 at 1:13 am |
        • Sara

          jarhead, I have never assumed all Christians are the same and have argued therir diversity dozens of times on this very site. However, Christianity as a whole has several threats to humanity at this point, all stemming from the bible and exhibited to different degrees by different sects. The areas in which one sect is less dangerous are generally due to a looser adherence to the bible...in other words being less Christian. In order to accept modern psychology, physics, biology, astronomy and sociology different parts of the bible are ignored by different groups or simply declared metaphorical.

          November 16, 2013 at 1:19 am |
        • G to the T

          "That is why we should follow Jesus Christ, not Christianity."
          Sorry, but to me, what you are really saying here is "we should follow what the Bible claims Jesus said". While the sentiments may be admirable in many cases, I contend that the source matieral isn't robust enough to claim we "know" anything that he might have actually said. So really, you end up following your idea of what you think he was/said as based on what others thought/believed he was/said.

          November 21, 2013 at 12:27 pm |
      • jarhead333

        Unless you assume a God, the question of life’s purpose is meaningless. Bertrand Russell – Atheist

        November 15, 2013 at 11:10 pm |
        • Doris

          Since he used "G", I would have to guess BR referenced the Abrahamic God, so is he talking about purpose with respect to the purpose that believers of such a god subscribe? It would be interesting to see the context for that. Of course just because one does not hold belief in the Abrahamic God, does not mean they completely refute the possibility of some other presently unknown force where some purpose might be in play.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:14 pm |
        • jarhead333

          @Doris: I agree with you. People are free to seek and discover God. I do believe that there is a God, and I believe in a Christian God. However, the fact that others completely refute the possibility of a creator, whatever their belief, is crazy to me.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:20 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          What persuades you that there is a creator? Do you feel that you yourself are a created thing, or that the Universe is? Both? Why?

          November 15, 2013 at 11:24 pm |
        • Doris

          I wouldn't be surprised if a creative force was involved, but I'm not convinced about the necessity for:

          a. something that is still present
          b. something that is intelligent or
          c. something that man is in the image of

          November 15, 2013 at 11:27 pm |
        • jarhead333

          @Tom Tom: My decision was based on the lack of evidence. I have still not read anything that has persuaded me to believe that the entire universe was created by accident. I have not been a Christian my entire life, it was a decision I made after examining the evidence.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:49 pm |
        • Sara

          Please cite the original source of that quote. As far as I know that's one of those bogus quotes that travels around the internet.

          November 15, 2013 at 11:57 pm |
        • Sara

          jarhead...still waiting????

          November 16, 2013 at 12:19 am |
        • My Dog is a jealous Dog

          @jarhead

          You say first that "My decision was based on the lack of evidence." and later about your conversion "it was a decision I made after examining the evidence.". I realize that you were looking for evidence of an "accident", but anyone seriously considering the question are looking for an underlying law of physics or scientific principle. From a scientific POV using "accident" as an explanation is equivalent to "magic". There is currently no evidence of what caused the inflation from a singularity we call the big bang (maybe the singularity existed for an "eternity" before it expanded) or what caused life to appear, and until there is any, the correct position to take in the absence of evidence is "I don't know".

          November 16, 2013 at 12:54 am |
        • jarhead333

          You cannot prove the lack of a God, any more then I can prove that you are going to one exists. You do not believe in God, so it is not like you are going to believe after my posts.

          November 16, 2013 at 1:08 am |
        • My Dog is a jealous Dog

          So, you made a decision between two unprovable positions – God exists/God does not exist.

          You chose the one that made you feel better, I made the choice that I think is more likely, and also because of the fact that the position – God does not exist can be falsified (and I would immediately convert), but the proposition that God exists can never be shown to be false given the traditional definitions of gods.
          I am a patriotic American and respect your right to believe whatever you want, but do not insist that you made your decision based on evidence. We both know that you have no real evidence for the existence of God.

          November 16, 2013 at 1:21 am |
        • My Dog is a jealous Dog

          Put another way – Evidence could prove the existence of God, but no amount of evidence can disprove existence.

          November 16, 2013 at 1:27 am |
        • jarhead333

          So, you cannot disprove God, but I am wrong. You are patriotic, and I am a Marine. I am a Christian, yet you are the one to decide what I do, or do not believe in. Please correct me if I am wrong.

          November 16, 2013 at 1:27 am |
        • My Dog is a jealous Dog

          Did I say you were wrong? No, I respect your right to be a Christian, but do not claim evidence for your position. I don't claim to have evidence for my position and could care less whether you change your beliefs or not, but you should be honest with yourself that you believe in God because you want to, and not because you have evidence. Being a Marine, I would not question your patriotism, so I hope you would not let your religious beliefs deny other Americans of the rights you fought to protect for all of us. I would love to continue this exchange, and I don't want you to think I am running away, but it is very late in my timezone and I am going to go cuddle my wife. Have a good evening.

          November 16, 2013 at 1:47 am |
    • lol??

      lol??
      "we"?? You a "Wegodian"??

      lol??
      "we"?? You a "Wegodian"??

      lol??
      "we"?? You a "Wegodian"??

      November 15, 2013 at 11:47 pm |
    • devin

      You mistakenly equate "judging others" with that of belief in morlal absolutes. The fellows over at NAMBA seem to enjoy the company of young boys, would you assign me the label of "judgemental" were I to express my objection to their behavior.?

      November 16, 2013 at 12:40 am |
    • devin

      You mistakenly equate "judging others" with that of belief in moral absolutes. The fellows over at NAMBA seem to enjoy the company of little boys, would you also assign to me the label "judgemental" were I to express my objection to their behavior.

      November 16, 2013 at 12:43 am |
    • sam

      Many thanks for being mostly rational.

      November 16, 2013 at 12:55 am |
  8. Ediacarin Biota

    So, why did Judaism, and its derivatives, Christianity, Islam and Mormonism, take off? Why do they now speak for about 2.5 billion?

    November 15, 2013 at 10:35 pm |
    • Fan2C

      Wishful thinking. Fear. Superst.ition. Cultural mores.

      November 15, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
    • Oregon

      Love. Compassion. Sacrificing.

      November 15, 2013 at 10:52 pm |
    • Sara

      I don't think Judaism in itself ever really "took off". The others are all prostletizing monotheistic religions that were largely competing against weaker polytheism. Belonging to the wealthier trading groups was a big plus as well.

      November 16, 2013 at 12:12 am |
  9. Substantial Compensation

    Each and every gay person has signed a contract with Satan. That contract cannot be broken except through the exceptional work of men like Bishop Thomas Paprocki. He faces the evil one face to face daily to save YOU and provide a pathway to heavens gates.

    November 15, 2013 at 10:16 pm |
    • Observer

      Substantial,

      Cut the HYPOCRISY. There's virtually ZERO CHANCE you believe and practice everything in the Bible.

      Wake up!

      November 15, 2013 at 10:17 pm |
    • skipperb

      LMAO! are you for real?

      November 15, 2013 at 10:28 pm |
      • Tom, Tom, the Other One

        No, it's Daniel Burke. He comes on here all the time.

        November 15, 2013 at 10:29 pm |
        • sam

          A+

          November 16, 2013 at 12:56 am |
        • CNN Belief Blog Co-EditorCNN

          What's that supposed to mean, Tom?

          November 16, 2013 at 10:57 am |

  10. Where is Apple Bush? He'd think this guy is a riot.

    November 15, 2013 at 10:16 pm |
    • Substantial Compensation

      I am here. lol
      AB

      November 15, 2013 at 10:17 pm |
  11. Substantial Compensation

    Atheists don't grasp that the Lord God blessed us with a moral code. Gayness is not in the code and is in clear violation of human decency and thus sinful. Demons delight in the corruption of the people.

    November 15, 2013 at 9:58 pm |
    • sam

      Superst.itious nonsense. Mind your own business and let other people live their lives how they want.

      November 15, 2013 at 10:05 pm |
      • Substantial Compensation

        sam, you are weak minded and without morals. You do not see the demons hovering all around you ready to lick your ears and fondle you. Be strong and embrace the Almighty as nature intended.

        November 15, 2013 at 10:08 pm |
        • sam

          LOL

          November 15, 2013 at 10:09 pm |
        • Substantial Compensation

          sam
          😉
          AB

          November 15, 2013 at 10:11 pm |
        • Akira

          You tit!
          I was reading this page and I was like "Oh. Good. Grief."

          November 15, 2013 at 10:17 pm |
        • Substantial Compensation

          LOL, Hi Akira.
          AB

          November 15, 2013 at 10:20 pm |
    • Mary

      No. Morals come from within. Demons are a human construct. Gay does NOT equal demon.
      Don't engage in any behavior you personally find sinful to you.
      Leave people who have never done a thing to you alone.
      Easy.

      November 15, 2013 at 10:07 pm |
      • Substantial Compensation

        Your lack of understanding of the ways of Satan's underworld are evident. Perhaps you yourself are a demon and are not even aware of it. I can see and smell the evil flesh of a demon presence.

        November 15, 2013 at 10:11 pm |
        • Mary

          You clown! You got me! Bwahahaha!

          Tip O the hat, Dr.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:19 pm |
        • sam

          Good one, AB.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:26 pm |
  12. Substantial Compensation

    This Bishop at least gets it. Until we fight these demons the world around us will atrophy...

    November 15, 2013 at 9:35 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Do you see the demons or do you just know they are there?

      November 15, 2013 at 9:38 pm |
      • Substantial Compensation

        I can smell the evil on them and the very thought of the horrid things they do make me ill. Unnatural = supernatural = demons = gays.

        November 15, 2013 at 9:55 pm |
        • Mary

          Lol. You're silly.

          November 15, 2013 at 9:57 pm |
        • midwest rail

          Your loving att-itude will draw many to your cause. ( eye roll )

          November 15, 2013 at 9:59 pm |
        • Substantial Compensation

          Mary, the elimination of gays is not silly. It is paramount to the survival of our very souls on Earth.

          November 15, 2013 at 9:59 pm |
        • Christians never fails to amuse

          Well, if "Unnatural = supernatural = demons = gays", then God is a gay demon, because he is definitely supernatural

          November 15, 2013 at 10:03 pm |
        • Substantial Compression

          Your soul is not supposed to survive on this earth. If you were a believer and not a troll you'd know that.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:03 pm |
        • Substantial Compensation

          Midwest, The mighty Lord our God has made his desire known unto all humans. No gays and you have to bank the 8-ball to win.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:04 pm |
        • sam

          It's not evil you smell – it's Axe body spray.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:06 pm |
        • midwest rail

          Two possibilities :
          1. You're trolling to make Christians look worse than they already do.
          2. You're a prototypical contemporary evangelical Christian – arrogant, condescending, and hateful.
          Take your pick.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:07 pm |

        • It's probably L proving that it is a swine by taking on gay people as well as atheists.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:11 pm |
        • Mary

          Over Compensating, you are just absurd. With all the problems with this world, gays don't even enter in the equation.

          You're just silly.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:11 pm |
        • Substantial Compensation

          Mary, I like eggs very much. Almost as much as I hate the devil gays.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:18 pm |
        • zito

          Your church is an organized criminal organization ever created by men. or You just forgot the history. who are the unnatural criminals ?

          November 15, 2013 at 10:30 pm |
        • Akira

          Sam:
          That crap IS the smell of evil.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:41 pm |
        • sam

          @Akira: RIGHT??

          Kids: if we're outside on a windy day and I can still smell you? That's too much. Find a fire station and ask to be hosed down.

          November 16, 2013 at 12:58 am |
    • Live4Him

      @Substantial Compensation : Until we fight these demons the world around us will atrophy...

      While I agree with your sentiments, I just cannot see Jesus planning an exorcism. We need to see homosexuality in the same vein as many other sins that are prevalent today – promiscuity, greed, porn, drug use, and even Phariseeism (so to speak). They are all lost, wanting to be loved. When they are ready, Jesus will be there. Until then, we need to love them and show them the way.

      November 15, 2013 at 9:46 pm |
      • Substantial Compensation

        You are against drug use?

        November 15, 2013 at 9:56 pm |
      • Observer

        Live4Him,

        Why did you leave out the MUCH MUCH greater number of Christians who are ADULTERERS because of divorce and remarriage? Too many family and friends involved?

        November 15, 2013 at 10:10 pm |
  13. Lionly Lamb

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh2qd_foV-4&w=640&h=360]

    November 15, 2013 at 8:59 pm |
    • james

      I used to appreciate many of your comments but this has no place here. Put the pipe down, your friends need you now.

      November 15, 2013 at 9:11 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      I'm with James on this one.

      November 15, 2013 at 10:07 pm |
  14. Roger that

    Ted Haggard used to adamantly speak out against gays. I can't remember, how did that turn out again?

    November 15, 2013 at 8:29 pm |
    • Youtube - Neil DeGrasse Tyson rebukes Richard Dawkins

      He and his wife are both still in denial.

      November 15, 2013 at 8:32 pm |
      • Mike

        Hey, did you catch NDT on the Daily Show yesterday?

        November 15, 2013 at 10:01 pm |
        • Akira

          I did. He was very funny.

          November 15, 2013 at 10:46 pm |
  15. Douglas

    I do admit to a certain pull toward certain males. But I avoid actiions on my own species.

    November 15, 2013 at 8:27 pm |
    • Enjoying your post

      I hate humanity too, but don't let it stop you from finding love. It's nice to have that one person who doesn't make you want to scream...usually.

      November 15, 2013 at 8:44 pm |
    • Observer

      Douglas,

      "But I avoid actiions on my own species."

      What species do you have "actions" with?

      November 15, 2013 at 8:45 pm |
    • Thomas D

      We are a sensuous species. Let go.

      November 15, 2013 at 9:07 pm |
  16. Reality

    not as crappy as the catholic church

    November 15, 2013 at 8:25 pm |
    • Surprise!

      True.

      November 15, 2013 at 8:59 pm |
  17. Thomas D

    Go elsewhere; seems you pulled some whine out of your own vagina.

    November 15, 2013 at 8:24 pm |
    • Surprise!

      No one asked you, bitch.

      November 15, 2013 at 8:58 pm |
      • Observer

        Surprise!

        Grow up.

        November 15, 2013 at 9:00 pm |
      • Thomas D

        Aww. Another but thirst troll

        November 15, 2013 at 9:11 pm |
      • Thomas D

        Lol, I hate auto correct. Butthurt troll. And a juvenile one at that.

        November 15, 2013 at 9:14 pm |
      • Surprise!

        Thomas, I'm sorry your butt is thirsty. Go fuck yourself.

        November 15, 2013 at 10:09 pm |
      • Thomas D

        You're quite the silly little cunt, aren't you?

        November 15, 2013 at 10:38 pm |
  18. Reality

    wow.. the catholic church is exposed.. Wait. we need to x-pose them for the cover ups of chi-ld a-buse.

    November 15, 2013 at 8:21 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.