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 Congregation Or Hadash, a conservative Jewish synagogue built from a former auto body repair shop.
November 20th, 2013
12:11 PM ET
From auto shop to sacred spaceEditor's note: This story is part of CNN's American Journey series to show how old buildings around the United States have found new purposes and helped to build communities. Are there repurposed buildings in your community? Share the stories with CNN iReport and they could be featured in a CNN story. Sandy Springs, Georgia (CNN) - The old Chevrolet paint and body shop was vacant - 24,000 square feet of metal and concrete surrounded by a sea of asphalt. But when some members of Congregation Or Hadash saw it, they saw a home. Since it was founded in 2003, the conservative Jewish congregation had bounced from location to location outside Atlanta - a Methodist church, a windowless space in a school, any place they could rent or borrow as they grew. "Sometimes, from week to week, we didn't know exactly where we were going to be," said Fred Wachter, president of the congregation and a member since its early years. "All the while ... we probably walked every piece of available property and real estate in Sandy Springs, trying to find something, anything, that would look like it." FULL STORY
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Since sin is not a real phenomenon I am not a fallen sinner. The real question one should is ask is why? What possible good can come from believing in a god(s), even if it were real? Doesn't fix anything. Doesn't change anything. Causes a lot of distrust and hatred, that is all I see. So why even bother? Just live, die and fly!
The good that comes is peace, hope, & joy.
I have just as much of those things as the next fella and I don't believe in any gods.
Glad to hear you have those. Faith changes your heart and mind, allowing you to love God and your fellow humans.
The bible tells us that god knows when we will be born and when we will die. There can be no free will.
“If we mean by ‘free will’ that fallen man has the ability to choose what he wants, then of course fallen man has free will. If we mean by ‘free will’ that man in his fallen state has the moral power and ability to choose righteousness, then ‘free will’ is far too grandiose a term to apply to fallen man.” – John Calvin
Nothing comes between me and my Calvins: Brooke Shields
Omniscience...not omnipotence but I'm sure my point got across.
Another option, and a way some try to spin their God and still maintain free will is if God has the ability to see every possible future. But that just leaves a God who is then powerless to affect change...and just be a spectator.
I guess a more direct question is "Can God see into the future?" Claims of omnipotence and prophecy suggest he can. If so then our fate is predestined. Free will then becomes an illusion. For example – Does God know how many children someone will have? Would it not then be impossible for them to say commit suicide before having those kids? Wouldn't the availability of that choice violate the free will of the unborn?
Oops...2 above should be here
What does knowing when you are born and knowing when you will die disprove free will? Do you know what free will means? Free will deals with choices •you• make. God isn't going to stop someone's choice whether good or bad. That's the part I think atheists can't get over.
I'm sorry that you're having so much trouble with such a simple concept.
If god knows what choice we WILL make, and we cannot choose anything else except what god knows we will choose, then there is no free will and "choice" is merely an illusion.
You are adding conditions to the question.
"we cannot choose anything else "
that will get rid of free will.
I am not adding conditions. If god knows what a person will do, then there is no way for the person to have any choice to do otherwise.
if there is a god smart enough to know what will happen, you still have a choice.
I just don't understand why you think knowledge limits free will.
LIB, try thinking the process through more diligently. Don't just stop at God knows / Free will.
One choice changes the future. A future God already knows. Therefore, there can be no free will. impossible.
It was my choice to post this.
If there is a god and he saw it coming, that did not make me press the keys and click on 'post'.
It was his will that you post it. You have no choice.
Again, you are adding another element AFTER I answered the question.
If god is there and he imposes his will, then there is no free will.
Where is capt obvious when we need him?
If it can only happen the way that god forsaw it happening, and there is no chance of it happening any other way, then there is no free will, there is only determinism.
Again, I am just joking around. Of course there is free will. There are no gods that we are aware of.
So by your reasoning, god know what choice I am going to make.
It is still a choice.
“For you will certainly carry out God's purpose, however you act, but it makes a difference to you whether you serve like Judas or like John.”
Correct. Judas served the will and plan of god, and had no choice to do otherwise. Thus, god is a colossal azzhole for punishing him or anyone because there is no free will.
Judas did what Judas did.
No Judas = No Crucifixion = No Salvation = God's plan fails. How could Judas have done otherwise? How do you know it wasn't God's will that Judas "betray" Jesus (even though Jesus supposedly already knew full well what was going to happen)?
Don't backtrack, CSLewis. You were correct the first time.
Deut 30:19 – "I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse;+ and you must choose life so that you may live,+ you and your descendants."
Which course of life you will choose its up to you! Free will!
Do you think that the Jesus and the apostles compared penis sizes? You know they did I mean come on.
The Incoherence of Atheism by Ravi Zacharias
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6cTlDn4PiU&feature=player_detailpage
Wow, that's sure convincing
To those who already believe
Frederick Antony Ravi Kumar Zacharias is an Indian-born, Canadian-American Christian apologist. A defender of traditional evangelicalism,
Education: Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Trinity International University
Sounds like a real genius.
Then you've never heard him speak.
You are incorrect.
how is are an omniscient god and free will compatible, larry?
many of the pious have dodged this question before
gopher has, robbie brown has, perhaps you have
can you give it a rational attempt, or are you going to bloviate out scripture?
The argument you are looking is for would be :
Just because god know what you are going to do, that doesn't mean he is making you do it.
"how is are an omniscient god and free will compatible, larry?"
While it is true that God’s providence controls all the acts of human beings, still, that does not destroy man’s “free agency.” God does not control man’s acts by forcing them to do things against their will, but by so ordering the facts and circu.mstances of their lives, and the moral state of their hearts, that they voluntarily, of their own accord, without any constraint, always do exactly what God has foreordained that they are to do.
Two great books on this topic are "The Freedom of the Will" by Jonathan Edwards, and "The Bondage of the Will" by Martin Luther.
Another way to look at it, is to say that God is a gardener tending a vine. The vine, being planted next to a fence, wills to grow, and left to its own devices, it will grow on both sides of the fence. The Gardener may will that the vine grow on only one side of the fence, so he bends the vine over to the ground where the vine takes up root where he wills. It is in the nature of the vine to root where it is planted, but the decision of the gardener bends the vine to his will. Both the vine and the Gardener are acting – the vine is doing according to its own nature, and the Gardener wills where the vine is to grow.
Furthermore, the Gardener may employ the use of a brick, in order that he might weigh down a section of vine for it to take root in the ground where he desires. Here, the Gardener uses a tool, but neither is the will of the vine, nor that of the brick being impeded. The will of the brick being simply that it obeys gravity, and has weight.
In this sense, we can see how God can employ the use of Satan in bending the will of man. Satan performs his part, just as he is compelled to do, and succeeds only in so far as he is permitted.
that's what i thought.
you danced around it
"yes" or "no"
does god know what i am going to do before i do it?
God could have used different magic that would have gotten him a better result in a more efficient manner. Bible god is just too stupid to be believed.
"they voluntarily, of their own accord, without any constraint, always do exactly what God has foreordained that they are to do. "
Again, no free will
if i apparently have two choices, A or B, and god knows i am going to choose B, and god cannot be wrong, what are the chances i will choose A?
that's what i thought.
you danced around it
"yes" or "no"
does god know what i am going to do before i do it?
-
I didn't dance around your question – besides, it isn't a "yes" or "no" answer until you define your terms. What do you mean by "free will" anyway?
Jonathan Edwards said that the “Will” is that by which the mind of man chooses anything that best pleases him – free moral agents always act according to the strongest inclination that they have at the moment of choice.
Man’s will is free to choose the manner of sin that best appeals to him for man’s nature is that he is in bondage to sin… We are sinful, depraved, our nature is fallen, it is dead, we are blind, we are alienated from God, we do not possess the life of God – we are dead in our trespasses and sins.
What he cannot do, and is not free to do without a miracle of God, is choose righteousness.
I'm getting off of work and headed home.
If you honestly wish to find the answer to your question, I highly recommend reading "The Bondage of the Will" and "The Freedom of the Will." These are GREAT books on this topic.
Cheers!
can i do something that god doesn't know i am going to do before i do it?
Sam,
If god is omniscient as you said, then yes he knows what you are goig to do. Obviously.
However, I dissagree with your conclusion that it is not up to you to do it or not.
"We are sinful, depraved, our nature is fallen, it is dead, we are blind, we are alienated from God, we do not possess the life of God – we are dead in our trespasses and sins."
Thank you.
The strongest argument argument against religion yet
Alias: If god knows what i am going to do before i do it, and god cannot be wrong, how does free will exist?
Alias: i am not necessarily denying free will, only stating that it appears that free will and an omniscient god are not logically consistent
If I drop a cookie on the floor in front of my dog, I'm sure he will eat it.
That doesn't mean i'm forcing him to eat it.
If there is a god and he knows everything (your argument), how does that force me to give the dog a cookie?
I think you are being too literal in your philosphy.
Lawrence
I miss you from our pervious conversation.
If you find Zacharias's kind of argument compelling I imagine that the old editorial "Yes, Virginia, There Is A Santa Claus" must also have you convinced that a jolly fellow actually does deliver toys to all good little boys and girls every year. It's the exact same play kind of upon emotional desires, isn't it?
Looking back through history you have many examples of people like Hitler who did very bad things, and God knew he would because he had already seen the history book ahead of time. So even though Hitler thought he was making choices, in fact, he was just playing a part already written for him by some grand author. Hitler needed to be Hitler and do the things Hitler did according to Gods plan if God is in fact all knowing, and the millions of dead would effect other lives who had to make decisions this God already knew, so really, the author is the only one getting a thrill out of the book even though he already knows the ending, he just likes to put the characters into no win sittuations because if he didn't he would never get to show how awesome he is at writing and he of course needed an ultimate protagonist so he created Satan... so really, we mean about as much as a single inked letter on some grand page of history and the author is still upset he isn't getting enough attention, because let's be real, this book isn't about us, it's all about him...even though he never had a begining or will ever have an end, he can of course see the end because he knows everything, even though he doesn't have one...
@ or you ...
Now you are changing the conditions.
The first question only assumed god knew evertthing.
Now you are throwing in a master plan that god wrote.
If god authored a master plan then there is no free will.
Lawrence of Arabia
Regarding your "Gardener" analogy, how is the Brick like Satan? Satan isn't being used by God to bring people around the right way, is he? Satan is only a liability, like a weed, and any good gardener would never allow a weed to diminish his crop, right?
People just under their own free will may choose not to follow God, but Satan supposedly helps with this. Why, then, does God allow Satan to have this influence?
I was trying to get the point accross that you cannot have someone who knows exactly what choices someone will make and still have free will because if they already know for fact then it's as if it has already happened, and if it has already happened then there is no freedom to make a different choice. Also, you cannot have a being that had no start but then at some point in his timeless eternal existence he creates something (did he finally get bored if time wasn't passing in some form?) which does have a start and then he claims he also knows the finish and yet has no finish himself. Will he/it get bored again sometime in its endless future? Will he/it create some new beings to demand fea lty from and torture if they don't do what he tells them all while he/it gets to voy eris ticly observe?
"because if they already know for fact then it's as if it has already happened, and if it has already happened then there is no freedom to make a different choice"
Your chain of logic is the issue here.
The original question was if they know what you will do – Now you are tryint to make it a fact.
As I posted above, it was my choise to post this. Even if an allknowing god exixts and saw it coming, I still chose to click on 'post'. His prior knowledge alone did not make me do it.
His prior knowledge means you could not have chosen anything else but what agrees with his prior knowledge: No free will.
Alias: The cookie analogy only works if you are claiming omniscience
Even if the god with a perfect crystal ball exists, it is still a choice for me to stop repeating myself on this thread.
Even if he knew I was going to log off, I still decided to do it.
Still my choice.
Still my free will in practice.
Your choice, yet God supposedly reveals himself only to certain people, which messes with free will. It's like being faced with the choice of being a peeking tom, which is much more difficult to the one who has a se xy neighbor than the one who doesn't.
Nonsense. You have no choice but to do what an OMNISCIENT god has has already written in stone (and that is done by supposed god's omniscience)
He says "If you do away with the notion of God you do away with the notion of good and evil", but what about when your God orders you to do evil things, like the genocide of Canaanites or discriminating against gays? That's why I honestly can't see how anyone can argue that following the example and teachings of the Bible God actually distinguishes good from evil.
Ben,
Did you notice that your and my comments to Lawrence earlier this evening (about 1st century Christian testimonies and their possible rebuttals) were deleted shortly after we posted them. That whole thread is gone. Who is pulling off this nasty tactic? Whoever is doing it - it's desp.icable.
Happens a lot. Someone probably hit the "report abuse" button a lot, which is one way to avoid having to respond to our posts, I suppose.
You are a Miami Dolphins fan.
I am a Tampabay Buccaneers fan. And obviously an atheist.
I am a Bears fan. Sigh.
I am a Browns fan.
AND a Cubs fan.
We can learn a lot from losing.
You should be a wise person by now.
I do pretty well in Vegas on these two teams.
There is only one toilet and no urinal in the public bathroom and their is an inch of water on the floor. You have explosive diarrhea from the Pastor burrito you had for lunch...
The lady in front of you in the checkout line is 83 years old and she is writing a check for her groceries while the bus waits for her.
Two stores they should have put on the belief blog:
The one on CNN about how secular marriages are increasing and the Christian sky-fairy is not being mentioned.
The one about costco in California classifying bibles as "Fiction" which they are.
Costco has already fixed that and apologized. Pressure from above, no doubt.
By 'Above' do you mean a parent company?
God.
Do you believe your god takes direct action to change things in this world often?
Just a play on words, Alias.
This one too !
Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin denies benefits to all soldiers just to discriminate against gay ones.
All because how she was raised maybe.
The Costco one has been mentioned 100,000 times already.
I've only seen about 1,942 references.
That story may still have some life left in it.
The Bible is classified in the Dewey Decimal System under 200-Religion (220)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dewey_Decimal_classes#Class_200_.E2.80.93_Religion –
*note it's not under History or Science or even Philosophy.
Maybe it should be Literature – Fiction / Fantasy; but you'll need to take that up with someone else other than Costco.
It is actually a collection of books. Fiction, history, genealogies, myths, history, an origin story, poetry, musical lyrics, testimonies, personal letters, biography... hard to categorize.
Getting a giddy because Costco made a computer error and labeled it as fiction is silly.
Just as silly as the outrage when it was labeled fiction, I agree.
It's also not under "Relationships", which is why I always laugh when a Christian says that they aren't following a religion but are in a personal relationship with God.
If I had piece of wood I would make it a yo yo
If I had a yo yo I would tie a string to it
If I was me, I would make me into a yo yo with a string attached to it and practice
We are circumvented
Invented
Lost then found then lost
Loud but silent
The joyful myth and eager messenger;
Stained glass soars to the rafters;
Surely God is here, and yet this house is empty;
No salesman can close;
Lovely building full of lies, heard less prayers than cries;
Sacred this and sacred that;
Babies raped and priests zipping up their pants;
No leads to follow;
This is what Jesus witnesses from His lofty perch in that glass;
Abuse the sheep and pay the tithe;
Fill the tray and please don’t stay;
Such a lovely cathedral, such a vile torture chamber.
Heaven is a place in Hell; a place where Angels and Demons dwell.
The bell rings, the Devil Swings and on God’s throne he begins to dwell.
Looking through space and time, the duality of the immortals shine.
The singing begins and the song is one of the infinite. Universes are sung, galaxies too;
Star and planet, us.
But we can hear the singing not;
For we are here on this planet caught.
The webs we weave; tears to deceive.
Rob of us of our own immortal lot.
Oops, sorry. Didn't mean to post that.
I often notice several attacks against religion as being reasons for war, ra+pe, etc. etc. I'm sure the list is long. If only religion did not exist, these things would decrease or those who use religion for such evil acts would be lost amongst the world with no power beside them to influence the rest of us. I'm also sure you may continue what may occur if religion did not exist to your excitement.
Despite these claims, study will result in a different conclusion. Considering human history and human nature as well as the "what if God does not exist" concept. We will be left with humans will be humans, and an individual's decision is based purely on their own despite reasons, factors, or circ+mstances.
The main influences to mankind's actions towards that which many commonly refer to as "evil" is in itself based on "evil" – also known as sin. The most common practices being summed as Pride, Wrath, Lust, Greed, Envy, Gluttony, and Sloth. These things and their explanations may change a little from here to there, but it seems that every culture touches on the subject. Some, are against while others have made exceptions to them, perhaps even "idolizing" their existence. It should be no surprise that these are among the most violent communities.
We know animals protect their territory. Humans may have no other desire but to do the same. Unique to the animal kingdom, our minds and our thoughts are the likeness to whom we are. It is clear that they must be included as territory. If attacked, if conflicted, if opposed – it is our immediate desire to protect that which is us. the thing that makes you, you. That is pride. There is a line however, when this encroachment is a violation to our safety and self defense must take place. This line sure seems thin from time to time, but it is there.
History has shown a great example of religion having some influence during many conflicts. Although it – along with land, resources, people – has been used as reason for many unfavorable actions, religion itself is not the actual reason or purpose to such actions. This is incredibly evident during times that the participating peoples practice a religion that their actions are contrary to.
In conclusion, the absence of religion is not, what some hope for, a fix or solution; but an improbable hole in society in which those who abuse religion will only move on to another fix. Another excuse. For religion is no excuse, nor scapegoat for violence.
thoughts? wanted to see what others think of this.
Religion don't kill people; people kill people.
I disagree. My parents adopted before I was born a little girl from a family that broke her legs when she was a baby(her birth parents were heavy drinkers and drug addicts). She has a mental condition known as RAD(Reactive Attachment Disorder) where she believes nobody loves her and never embraces love. She tried to murder my younger brother when he was a baby by pushing him down the stairs. This wasn't caused by "religion".
Jeffrey Dahmer
Dominance is pervasive in all life forms.
Isn't religion one of "their own disparate reasons" as much as any other?
The argument you mention is too often a counter to people claiming atheists have kill more people than .... whatever.
I agree with you, that these are not the evils religion causes.
Theism, by itself, comes with nothing more than a belief in a god or gods. Religion defines what those gods approve of or not, and some religions say that their gods are against things that, if their followers are loyal to these deities, often leads the most devout of them to do things harmful against others.
On the same bent, atheism is just the rejection of all claims of actual gods. There is, however, no "religion" built around what the non-existent gods want us to do. Where religious people surrender their ethical thinking to systems of religious moral pronouncements atheists must decide for themselves what is moral which means that we are "being" moral in a way that religious people are not because they are simply allowing themselves to follow orders.
As Steven Weinberg once said 'Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.’
If you look back over the last 3,000 years, many goverments have used religion to consolidate power and control the people. That has resulted in many bad things happening in the name of religion. However, in reality it was just people in power crushing anyone who was a threat to their power. Religion gets a bad rap in those cases.
There are also many cases of descrimination with violent consequences. Maybe religion is partially at fault in some of those.
Right. Only brainwashed atheists blame religion for all of society's ills.
A whole state because of religion.
Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin denies benefits to all soldiers just to discriminate against gay ones.
My thorns, now flies; buzzing around my gruesome head and face
My wasted body finally brought down; breathe still in me just a whisper
Nurtured and cleansed; bandaged and cared for
Now I am risen to say my final farewell
Do not worship me; do not mourn for me
Do not build churches for me or profit from me
I am a man, born of a woman from the seed of my father
I am as you are; a man and a human being
Learn from the sacrifices I have made; learn from the hypocrisy
Remember me as a friend
Heaven is a place in Hell; a place where Angels and Demons dwell.
The bell rings, the Devil Swings and on God’s throne he begins to dwell.
Looking through space and time, the duality of the immortals shine.
The singing begins and the song is one of the infinite. Universes are sung, galaxies too;
Star and planet, us.
But we can hear the singing not;
For we are here on this planet caught.
The webs we weave; tears to deceive.
Rob of us of our own immortal lot.
The path of misery is paved with the blood of Christ.
@ AB: as a Christian, I heartily agree.
but somehow i think we understand that statement in entirely different ways.
why would an omniscient, omnipotent God willingly plan to suffer?
There is no God.
That's your opinion.
Quit causing a war!
AppleBush is a troll.
You are not spelling my name right. It is two words.
I am very new to this blog and decided to go through some of the comments. I've noticed that there's a war going on between Christians and Atheists? Why? Why can't you treat each other with respect? Both sides have really angry people that vent their anger onto others. This war doesn't have to exist. Ya'll should be ashamed of yourselves.
You'll find the exact type of thing going on in politics, sports... even entertainment message boards.
People like to argue and fight. Nobody wins.
If you look at the centuries of oppression, intolerance, and killing that religion has inflicted upon atheism (and other religions), and their ongoing attempts to make their supersti.tions the law of the land, you can understand why seculars are finally pushing back.
As for religious people, they just cannot stand the concept that another paradigm exists.
Christians are horrible, so let us act exactly like them!
What a silly thing to say. Are you truly that ignorant?
No. But I witness atheists and secular society behaving bad behavior, too.
I agree... If we practiced the greatest commandment, we'd love each other regardless of our differences. 'The other opinion' wouldn't be reduced to name calling and spewing hatred.
By "respect" do you mean politely refraining from pointing out the flaws in other people's beliefs?
How would that affect our living in a free and democratic society if nobody felt inclined towards voicing their views?
I think that's really childish as it only pleases your ego. That's usually why people like the point out the "flaws". Or they face low self-esteem issues and doing that helps them cope?
I dissagree. If we are going to have a meaningful discussion we should point out bad argumentss and flawed logic.
We don't have to insult each other in the process.
I meant it both ways because don't religious claims point out the "flaws" of the nonreligious world view? Strictly speaking, then, isn't every church sign proclaiming that the only path to salvation lies in Christianity not pointing out the flaws of other faiths? What makes it fair to do this to others and then complain when others do the exact same thing to you?
Christians believe what they believe but everyone will walk a different faith who think their right anyways. In fact, all people think their right in some way. I respect other peoples choice of religion. If atheists ridicule believers, what does say about atheists? Instead of having a pleasant conversation, they bash and attack. It's not necessary.
Life Is Beautiful
You resect people's right to believe what they want to and so do I, so what's the problem? I can't think of any atheists who don't believe in freedom of thought, unlike the God who apparently will punish you for simply not believing in him.
Some atheists may ridicule believers, but believers also ridicule atheists. Isn't that Ravi Zacharias video up top is just an attack against nonbelievers? I like having pleasant conversations with believers, but very often it's they who get so easily offended by any criticism of the beloved beliefs that the threats of hellfire start flying.
@Life Is Beautiful,
Don't take all comments or commenters too seriously. This is an open blog after all.
Chimps have been known to rip off a face or two. Just jealous of the 1.2% they don't have.
i think lots of atheists are amused by the pompousness of christians
and christians are angry that their opinions are questioned
I've noticed the same about atheists as well. I don't hate atheists but both are equally annoying.
i have not noticed that
but maybe i am biased
atheists tend to be logical
theists tend to be illogical
but, like i said, perhaps i am biased
That's a biased opinion to begin. Are you speaking about all? If you are, then you aren't applying logic. You are applying ignorance, Sam.
No, I am not speaking of all christians. I am speaking of the majority of frequent posters to this blog
Cruel world. God's world.
@ AB: so is there a god for you to be upset with? or is this just how it is? you can't have it both ways.
if nature seems broken, either it is or we are for thinking it is.
That is just me being silly. Don't read too much into it.
JW, stop your despicable dodging. Your response regarding disease does not answer my question re how diseases actually propagate, and is another one of your shady dodges. Again, here is the question. Answer it directly this time.
How does the bible say that diseases propagate? You claimed that your bible is scientifically accurate while I know that it is not.
So, out with it, you cowardly liar. Answer the question directly this time. No more cowardly dodges of yours will be tolerated.
He can't, because he knows absolutely nothing about basic science or biology.
Like most believers, he has closed his mind to the possibility that the bible's version could be wrong.
So when confronted with fact that his bible is wrong, he does what all believers do, and change the subject.
Be thankful that we live in a secular nation and not a religious theocracy, or you and I would be hunted down and killed just so the believer can show how much he/she loves god.
dodging direct questions is a common quality of the truly pious. gopher does it all the time. so does robbie brown
"tophet" is another name for hell ... methinks our friend topher is the horned one in disguise. Hey, god apparently writes books so why can't the devil be a blogger?
Topher at 10 years old...
Topher...Hi, Sally look at the neat bike that Santa sent me.
Sally.......Its real swell 2fer, but there is no Santa.
Topher...Sure there is Sally my Dad told me so.
Sally.......No 2fer, your parents are really Santa, they are just fooling you.
Topher...You are being silly Sally, I have a book all about Santa, where he lives, his sleigh, his reindeer, everything.
Sally.......Sure 2fer (as she runs away).
Topher grew up but his mind did not evolve, he just picked a different delusion.
Take it easy on Topher CQ. He is still smarting from learning the truth about god today!
Ab
Yes, but it is almost like an addiction. I honestly try but then he posts something retarded like his statement below and I agree with sam, he cuts and runs; the popular gopher coward line. I shall try but will probably fail.
He used to prattle on endlessly, making a bigger and bigger fool of himself, but now he is just a hit-and-run troll.
"Topher at 10 years old"
That's next year, or the year after?
Topher at 10 years old...
Topher...Hi, Sally look at the neat bike that Santa sent me.
Sally.......Its real sw ell 2fer, but there is no Santa.
Topher...Sure there is Sally my Dad told me so.
Sally.......No 2fer, your parents are really Santa, they are just fooling you.
Topher...You are being silly Sally, I have a book all about Santa, where he lives, his sleigh, his reindeer, everything.
Sally.......Sure 2fer (as she runs away).
Topher grew up but his mind did not evolve, he just picked a different delusion.
Sorry for the double post, caught by the filter, I thought.
Dogs pretend to know how to read.
Just like you.
I find it infuriating that Christians use the argument, “well, what caused the Big Bang?” with the implication that, because we have only theories and no iron clad explanation for the Big Bang yet, [the Christian] god must have caused it. “I don’t know” does not equal “god” to me, much less the Judeo-Christian bronze age god. I feel the answers to such a question are much more likely to be found in Einstein’s equations, quantum physics, large particle accelerators and radio telescopes than in Genesis Chapters 1 through 20. But it's me who's crazy isn't it?
Doggie, just think where they have drawn their current line in that sand;
13.7 billion years ago to the big bang.
Over the years, the believers have used earthquakes, solar eclipses, the sun and or stars not falling onto us, death and many other now explained phenomena.
And each time we non believers/skeptics/science have solved all their previous lines, they have been pushed back to the beginning of the universe.
And guess what believers, science will figure that out, and your line in the sand will be once again obliterated and you will have to redraw it yet again.
A mind is a terrible thing to lose, to religion.....
What kind of a dog WANTS to be domesticated?? So they pretend and use socialism as a cover. Fantasy, fer sure.